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Government Patents, ..Yet Islam is Backwards?

Fatihah
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8/16/2016 11:17:29 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
The Western government creates patent laws that allows for new inventions to be unavailable for copyright and duplication by the public for years, making the inventor and the government to be the only ones who know how to make the invention and become wealthy from it. So during the industrial revolution, the way to make new inventions was not shared to the public while political leaders used their wealth and authority to make people build factories for the mass production of inventions, paid the workers poorly and established a low minimum wage, and also outlawed the ability to produce the currency by the public unless it is officially made by the government and created a system where the government produced currency is the only valuable currency.

This set up means that citizens are forced and have no choice but to depend on the government and undergo slave labor since they have no idea how to create the inventions themselves and can no longer create their own currency of equal value in the system and at the same time, the rich become richer and more and society is more advanced from the slave labor.

At no time in history was this ever practiced as currency could be produced by anyone such as a piece of gold and ideas and inventions were readily and easily shared. Even more interesting is that the new ideas of the West that allowed them to be advanced originally did not come from them. Yet they put laws into play that prevents others from learning from them, while depending on them.

So because Muslims have not used and adopted such unjust slave labor practices to become the most or equally advanced as the West, this makes them backwards? It's time to put things into perspective.
janesix
Posts: 3,466
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8/16/2016 11:33:10 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 11:17:29 PM, Fatihah wrote:
The Western government creates patent laws that allows for new inventions to be unavailable for copyright and duplication by the public for years, making the inventor and the government to be the only ones who know how to make the invention and become wealthy from it. So during the industrial revolution, the way to make new inventions was not shared to the public while political leaders used their wealth and authority to make people build factories for the mass production of inventions, paid the workers poorly and established a low minimum wage, and also outlawed the ability to produce the currency by the public unless it is officially made by the government and created a system where the government produced currency is the only valuable currency.

This set up means that citizens are forced and have no choice but to depend on the government and undergo slave labor since they have no idea how to create the inventions themselves and can no longer create their own currency of equal value in the system and at the same time, the rich become richer and more and society is more advanced from the slave labor.

At no time in history was this ever practiced as currency could be produced by anyone such as a piece of gold and ideas and inventions were readily and easily shared. Even more interesting is that the new ideas of the West that allowed them to be advanced originally did not come from them. Yet they put laws into play that prevents others from learning from them, while depending on them.

So because Muslims have not used and adopted such unjust slave labor practices to become the most or equally advanced as the West, this makes them backwards? It's time to put things into perspective.
Islam uses the inventions of the west as they dont have the brains to create anything on their own. With an average iq of 85 i am not surprised.
Fatihah
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8/16/2016 11:36:17 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 11:33:10 PM, janesix wrote:

Islam uses the inventions of the west as they dont have the brains to create anything on their own. With an average iq of 85 i am not surprised.

Response: Western inventions are primarily based off of Muslim inventions and other people. So if Muslims lack in brain intelligence and you learned from them, you just exposed yourself as impotent. No one is surprised.
janesix
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8/16/2016 11:41:20 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 11:36:17 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/16/2016 11:33:10 PM, janesix wrote:

Islam uses the inventions of the west as they dont have the brains to create anything on their own. With an average iq of 85 i am not surprised.

Response: Western inventions are primarily based off of Muslim inventions and other people. So if Muslims lack in brain intelligence and you learned from them, you just exposed yourself as impotent. No one is surprised.

Wow, dont you feel ashamed of yourself lying out your a$$?

Did muslims invent peanut butter too?
Fatihah
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8/16/2016 11:43:45 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 11:41:20 PM, janesix wrote:

Wow, dont you feel ashamed of yourself lying out your a$$?

Did muslims invent peanut butter too?

Response: To the contrary, don't you feel ashamed for being exposed or are you too deluded to comprehend?

Are you too busy sniffing peanut butter?
janesix
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8/16/2016 11:45:31 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 11:43:45 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/16/2016 11:41:20 PM, janesix wrote:

Wow, dont you feel ashamed of yourself lying out your a$$?

Did muslims invent peanut butter too?

Response: To the contrary, don't you feel ashamed for being exposed or are you too deluded to comprehend?

Are you too busy sniffing peanut butter?

Give us a list of muslim inventions please.
Fatihah
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8/16/2016 11:48:44 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 11:45:31 PM, janesix wrote:

Give us a list of muslim inventions please.

Response: Give us proof you are not impotent and capable of understanding please.
janesix
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8/16/2016 11:53:12 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 11:48:44 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/16/2016 11:45:31 PM, janesix wrote:

Give us a list of muslim inventions please.

Response: Give us proof you are not impotent and capable of understanding please.

I knew you were lying out of your less than 85iq a$$. Now please give us a list of muslim nobel prize winners. You may have trouble sifting through all the whites and the jews.
Fatihah
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8/16/2016 11:58:28 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 11:53:12 PM, janesix wrote:

I knew you were lying out of your less than 85iq a$$. Now please give us a list of muslim nobel prize winners. You may have trouble sifting through all the whites and the jews.

Response: I knew your logic doesn't go higher than a mental patient. You probably thumb sucked everything you know and try to take credit for it later just like the West does. Don't worry, Muslims won't expose you when you bow and give thanks to them for the knowledge you would not know unless it was from them.
janesix
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8/17/2016 12:18:30 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 11:58:28 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/16/2016 11:53:12 PM, janesix wrote:

I knew you were lying out of your less than 85iq a$$. Now please give us a list of muslim nobel prize winners. You may have trouble sifting through all the whites and the jews.

Response: I knew your logic doesn't go higher than a mental patient. You probably thumb sucked everything you know and try to take credit for it later just like the West does. Don't worry, Muslims won't expose you when you bow and give thanks to them for the knowledge you would not know unless it was from them.

Let's compare lists

Muslims:
The burka
Peanut butter
Wiping your a$$ with your bare hand
Fatihah
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8/17/2016 12:24:01 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 12:18:30 AM, janesix wrote:

Let's compare lists

Muslims:
The burka
Peanut butter
Wiping your a$$ with your bare hand

Response: So you eat peanut butter after wiping your butt with your bare hands while wearing a burka? You sure that was peanut butter you were eating?
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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8/17/2016 12:31:57 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 11:33:10 PM, janesix wrote:
At 8/16/2016 11:17:29 PM, Fatihah wrote:
The Western government creates patent laws that allows for new inventions to be unavailable for copyright and duplication by the public for years, making the inventor and the government to be the only ones who know how to make the invention and become wealthy from it. So during the industrial revolution, the way to make new inventions was not shared to the public while political leaders used their wealth and authority to make people build factories for the mass production of inventions, paid the workers poorly and established a low minimum wage, and also outlawed the ability to produce the currency by the public unless it is officially made by the government and created a system where the government produced currency is the only valuable currency.

This set up means that citizens are forced and have no choice but to depend on the government and undergo slave labor since they have no idea how to create the inventions themselves and can no longer create their own currency of equal value in the system and at the same time, the rich become richer and more and society is more advanced from the slave labor.

At no time in history was this ever practiced as currency could be produced by anyone such as a piece of gold and ideas and inventions were readily and easily shared. Even more interesting is that the new ideas of the West that allowed them to be advanced originally did not come from them. Yet they put laws into play that prevents others from learning from them, while depending on them.

So because Muslims have not used and adopted such unjust slave labor practices to become the most or equally advanced as the West, this makes them backwards? It's time to put things into perspective.
Islam uses the inventions of the west as they dont have the brains to create anything on their own. With an average iq of 85 i am not surprised.

This is wrong and dumb on so many levels.
Meh!
Axonly
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8/17/2016 12:34:00 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 11:53:12 PM, janesix wrote:
At 8/16/2016 11:48:44 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/16/2016 11:45:31 PM, janesix wrote:

Give us a list of muslim inventions please.

Response: Give us proof you are not impotent and capable of understanding please.

I knew you were lying out of your less than 85iq a$$. Now please give us a list of muslim nobel prize winners. You may have trouble sifting through all the whites and the jews.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
Meh!
Axonly
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8/17/2016 12:35:23 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 12:24:01 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/17/2016 12:18:30 AM, janesix wrote:

Let's compare lists

Muslims:
The burka
Peanut butter
Wiping your a$$ with your bare hand

Response: So you eat peanut butter after wiping your butt with your bare hands while wearing a burka? You sure that was peanut butter you were eating?

Fati, I don't always agree with you, but when I do it's because you made a hilarious joke.
Meh!
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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8/17/2016 12:52:17 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 11:17:29 PM, Fatihah wrote:
The Western government creates patent laws that allows for new inventions to be unavailable for copyright and duplication by the public for years, making the inventor and the government to be the only ones who know how to make the invention and become wealthy from it.
Actually, Fati, in a world where most designs can be reverse-engineered, patents don't prevent the dissemination of knowledge, they just create a temporary barrier to entry from profiting from it.

The theory is that this stimulates invention, and that might or might not be true. But regardless, it's a form of state-sponsored protectionism with its historical roots in royalty selling favours to nobles and merchants, and it's legitimate to ask whether it is instituted fairly, and whether the public good is always served from it.

So because Muslims have not used and adopted such unjust slave labor practices to become the most or equally advanced as the West, this makes them backwards?
I'm not aware of some generally-accepted Muslim scriptural prohibition against patents, Fati, as there is for (say) usury. If there is, perhaps you can tell us about it.

But the causes of intellectual inequities in the world tend to be a complex mixture of geography (e.g. what resources are available in what abundance), demographics (size and education of the population), economics (what can you produce, how is it valued and with whom can you trade), politics (how do you order society, and impose order on others) and culture (what do you value, what customs do you uphold.)

Islam has been adopted by many of the world's great trading cultures, including Arabs, Persians, Turks, Indonesians, Malays, and the diverse ethnicities of the Silk Road in Central Asia. I don't myself believe that if intellectuals of these cultures had internationally valuable Intellectual Property, they wouldn't protect the heck out of it, and milk it for every riyal however they could. :)

Maybe that wouldn't be through patents, but if patents were available, I think they'd find ways to acquire them, just as Muslims find ways to do banking without technically doing usury. :D

It's time to put things into perspective.
Sure, but I think the right perspective is likely more sociological than purely religious.
Fatihah
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8/17/2016 12:52:42 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 12:35:23 AM, Axonly wrote:

Fati, I don't always agree with you, but when I do it's because you made a hilarious joke.

Response: It is okay to agree to disagree.
Fatihah
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8/17/2016 12:56:26 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 12:52:17 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/16/2016 11:17:29 PM, Fatihah wrote:
The Western government creates patent laws that allows for new inventions to be unavailable for copyright and duplication by the public for years, making the inventor and the government to be the only ones who know how to make the invention and become wealthy from it.
Actually, Fati, in a world where most designs can be reverse-engineered, patents don't prevent the dissemination of knowledge, they just create a temporary barrier to entry from profiting from it.

The theory is that this stimulates invention, and that might or might not be true. But regardless, it's a form of state-sponsored protectionism with its historical roots in royalty selling favours to nobles and merchants, and it's legitimate to ask whether it is instituted fairly, and whether the public good is always served from it.

So because Muslims have not used and adopted such unjust slave labor practices to become the most or equally advanced as the West, this makes them backwards?
I'm not aware of some generally-accepted Muslim scriptural prohibition against patents, Fati, as there is for (say) usury. If there is, perhaps you can tell us about it.

But the causes of intellectual inequities in the world tend to be a complex mixture of geography (e.g. what resources are available in what abundance), demographics (size and education of the population), economics (what can you produce, how is it valued and with whom can you trade), politics (how do you order society, and impose order on others) and culture (what do you value, what customs do you uphold.)

Islam has been adopted by many of the world's great trading cultures, including Arabs, Persians, Turks, Indonesians, Malays, and the diverse ethnicities of the Silk Road in Central Asia. I don't myself believe that if intellectuals of these cultures had internationally valuable Intellectual Property, they wouldn't protect the heck out of it, and milk it for every riyal however they could. :)

Maybe that wouldn't be through patents, but if patents were available, I think they'd find ways to acquire them, just as Muslims find ways to do banking without technically doing usury. :D

It's time to put things into perspective.
Sure, but I think the right perspective is likely more sociological than purely religious.

Response: Point taken. My only contention, not to you per se is that Islam is not the reason for Muslim countries being less advanced. There are other factors, as listed in the OP.
RuvDraba
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8/17/2016 1:09:55 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 12:56:26 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/17/2016 12:52:17 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/16/2016 11:17:29 PM, Fatihah wrote:
It's time to put things into perspective.
Sure, but I think the right perspective is likely more sociological than purely religious.
Point taken. My only contention, not to you per se is that Islam is not the reason for Muslim countries being less advanced. There are other factors, as listed in the OP.

I strongly agree, Fati, though perhaps for slightly different reasons. Islam's long love of mathematics, philosophy, poetry, literature and science should be acknowledged and respected worldwide, though it has not been embraced by every regime.

As for present intellectual productivity, it's an unfortunate fact that nations suffering prolonged colonialism have their natural resources ravished, their economies reconfigured to the needs of the colonising metropole, their governments corrupted, their art and thought marginalised, their international relations stunted, their cultural identities confused, and their self-determination disrupted.

None of that is good for intellectual development, it can take many generations to recover, and longer under corrupt governments, political inequities and fragile economies. But nobody who saw the care and love Muslim intellectuals had put into the National Museum of Iraq coming undone during the destruction and looting of the Iraq War, can doubt that Muslims still love intellectual endeavours.
bamiller43
Posts: 200
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8/17/2016 2:38:43 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 11:17:29 PM, Fatihah wrote:
The Western government creates patent laws that allows for new inventions to be unavailable for copyright and duplication by the public for years, making the inventor and the government to be the only ones who know how to make the invention and become wealthy from it. So during the industrial revolution, the way to make new inventions was not shared to the public while political leaders used their wealth and authority to make people build factories for the mass production of inventions, paid the workers poorly and established a low minimum wage, and also outlawed the ability to produce the currency by the public unless it is officially made by the government and created a system where the government produced currency is the only valuable currency.

The purpose of patent and copyright laws are basically as you stated: to make the inventor wealthy. To my knowledge, the government has no access to these patents unless the inventor allows it, so it doesn't make the government richer. And if you are really questioning why everyone can't just make their own money, i must seriously call into question your knowledge of economics. Imagine if you will, a country where everyone can print their own money. I print off 100,000 dollars per year. Buttcrack McGreedy figures out a way to print off money 10x as fast as anyone else. Now Buttcrack has 100,000,000,000,000,000 dollars, and effectively now has more money than the entire government. But what value does that money hold? Well, since there are now 100 trillion dollars in the economy, Robin of the Hood decides to raid McGreedy's house and take all his money. He then disperses it equally among everyone, making everyone rich. Everyone is now happy and poverty is gone right? Wrong. Business see that now EVERYONE has lots of money, and can afford everything. So what do they do? They raise prices. A lot. Because compared to money in other countries, the dollar is now essentially toilet paper. No one has any money because EVERYONE has money. THIS is why we cannot print our own money.

This set up means that citizens are forced and have no choice but to depend on the government and undergo slave labor since they have no idea how to create the inventions themselves and can no longer create their own currency of equal value in the system and at the same time, the rich become richer and more and society is more advanced from the slave labor.

Not exactly. The purpose of patents is to make the inventor wealthy in his lifetime. After some time, usually after the death of the inventor and then some, the patent expires, and the invention goes into the public domain. Now, everyone has access to the blueprints and can make their own thingy. OR, they can choose to improve upon the design and make a new patent. The only reason it kinda sucks now is because Walt Grubby-fingers Disney decided to sexually assault our patent laws with his lobbying and extend patent length to the lifetime of the creator PLUS 70 YEARS, all so he could keep his stupid rodent to himself.

At no time in history was this ever practiced as currency could be produced by anyone such as a piece of gold and ideas and inventions were readily and easily shared.

Um, try the Roman Empire, one of the most successful and powerful empires to exist in all of History. Yes, they fell, but so did all of the ones who didn't regulate their money, so its kind of moot. Pretty sure it was the same with the Greeks. Those who didn't regulate often didn't use money. They bartered, or traded. This is still the case in many third world countries.

Even more interesting is that the new ideas of the West that allowed them to be advanced originally did not come from them. Yet they put laws into play that prevents others from learning from them, while depending on them.

So because Muslims have not used and adopted such unjust slave labor practices to become the most or equally advanced as the West, this makes them backwards? It's time to put things into perspective.

I fail to see how any of this relates to Islam, but okay.
Fatihah
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8/17/2016 3:57:28 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 2:38:43 AM, bamiller43 wrote:

The purpose of patent and copyright laws are basically as you stated: to make the inventor wealthy. To my knowledge, the government has no access to these patents unless the inventor allows it, so it doesn't make the government richer. And if you are really questioning why everyone can't just make their own money, i must seriously call into question your knowledge of economics. Imagine if you will, a country where everyone can print their own money. I print off 100,000 dollars per year. Buttcrack McGreedy figures out a way to print off money 10x as fast as anyone else. Now Buttcrack has 100,000,000,000,000,000 dollars, and effectively now has more money than the entire government. But what value does that money hold? Well, since there are now 100 trillion dollars in the economy, Robin of the Hood decides to raid McGreedy's house and take all his money. He then disperses it equally among everyone, making everyone rich. Everyone is now happy and poverty is gone right? Wrong. Business see that now EVERYONE has lots of money, and can afford everything. So what do they do? They raise prices. A lot. Because compared to money in other countries, the dollar is now essentially toilet paper. No one has any money because EVERYONE has money. THIS is why we cannot print our own money.


Not exactly. The purpose of patents is to make the inventor wealthy in his lifetime. After some time, usually after the death of the inventor and then some, the patent expires, and the invention goes into the public domain. Now, everyone has access to the blueprints and can make their own thingy. OR, they can choose to improve upon the design and make a new patent. The only reason it kinda sucks now is because Walt Grubby-fingers Disney decided to sexually assault our patent laws with his lobbying and extend patent length to the lifetime of the creator PLUS 70 YEARS, all so he could keep his stupid rodent to himself.


Um, try the Roman Empire, one of the most successful and powerful empires to exist in all of History. Yes, they fell, but so did all of the ones who didn't regulate their money, so its kind of moot. Pretty sure it was the same with the Greeks. Those who didn't regulate often didn't use money. They bartered, or traded. This is still the case in many third world countries.


I fail to see how any of this relates to Islam, but okay.

Response: You just stated that the reason why everyone cannot produce their own currency or doing so is a bad idea because.......business will raise their prices? If I produce my own currency, I don't have to rely on the prices of another business and can make my own business and lower prices to have a competitive advantage or simply produce more currency if I wanted to purchase from a business that raises its prices.

Simply put, what you stated made absolutely no logical sense.

As for the rest, it doesn't relate to Islam, which is my whole point. The lack of advancement of Muslim nations is not because of Islam, and your own words saying patents allow the inventor to be wealthy makes my point that it makes them wealthy. Not the public and the industrial revolution was not is the result of governments capitalizing off the inventions and becoming wealthy as well, and not the general public.
Geogeer
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8/17/2016 4:13:35 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 2:38:43 AM, bamiller43 wrote:
At 8/16/2016 11:17:29 PM, Fatihah wrote:
The Western government creates patent laws that allows for new inventions to be unavailable for copyright and duplication by the public for years, making the inventor and the government to be the only ones who know how to make the invention and become wealthy from it. So during the industrial revolution, the way to make new inventions was not shared to the public while political leaders used their wealth and authority to make people build factories for the mass production of inventions, paid the workers poorly and established a low minimum wage, and also outlawed the ability to produce the currency by the public unless it is officially made by the government and created a system where the government produced currency is the only valuable currency.

The purpose of patent and copyright laws are basically as you stated: to make the inventor wealthy. To my knowledge, the government has no access to these patents unless the inventor allows it, so it doesn't make the government richer. And if you are really questioning why everyone can't just make their own money, i must seriously call into question your knowledge of economics. Imagine if you will, a country where everyone can print their own money. I print off 100,000 dollars per year. Buttcrack McGreedy figures out a way to print off money 10x as fast as anyone else. Now Buttcrack has 100,000,000,000,000,000 dollars, and effectively now has more money than the entire government. But what value does that money hold? Well, since there are now 100 trillion dollars in the economy, Robin of the Hood decides to raid McGreedy's house and take all his money. He then disperses it equally among everyone, making everyone rich. Everyone is now happy and poverty is gone right? Wrong. Business see that now EVERYONE has lots of money, and can afford everything. So what do they do? They raise prices. A lot. Because compared to money in other countries, the dollar is now essentially toilet paper. No one has any money because EVERYONE has money. THIS is why we cannot print our own money.

This set up means that citizens are forced and have no choice but to depend on the government and undergo slave labor since they have no idea how to create the inventions themselves and can no longer create their own currency of equal value in the system and at the same time, the rich become richer and more and society is more advanced from the slave labor.

Not exactly. The purpose of patents is to make the inventor wealthy in his lifetime. After some time, usually after the death of the inventor and then some, the patent expires, and the invention goes into the public domain. Now, everyone has access to the blueprints and can make their own thingy. OR, they can choose to improve upon the design and make a new patent. The only reason it kinda sucks now is because Walt Grubby-fingers Disney decided to sexually assault our patent laws with his lobbying and extend patent length to the lifetime of the creator PLUS 70 YEARS, all so he could keep his stupid rodent to himself.

You are confusing copyright with patent. A patent lasts 20 years. The purpose of which is to drive innovation as it protects the time and investment put forth making inventing and developing new ideas making it a profitable venture.

At no time in history was this ever practiced as currency could be produced by anyone such as a piece of gold and ideas and inventions were readily and easily shared.

Um, try the Roman Empire, one of the most successful and powerful empires to exist in all of History. Yes, they fell, but so did all of the ones who didn't regulate their money, so its kind of moot. Pretty sure it was the same with the Greeks. Those who didn't regulate often didn't use money. They bartered, or traded. This is still the case in many third world countries.

Even more interesting is that the new ideas of the West that allowed them to be advanced originally did not come from them. Yet they put laws into play that prevents others from learning from them, while depending on them.

So because Muslims have not used and adopted such unjust slave labor practices to become the most or equally advanced as the West, this makes them backwards? It's time to put things into perspective.

I fail to see how any of this relates to Islam, but okay.
bamiller43
Posts: 200
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8/17/2016 4:20:13 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 3:57:28 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/17/2016 2:38:43 AM, bamiller43 wrote:

The purpose of patent and copyright laws are basically as you stated: to make the inventor wealthy. To my knowledge, the government has no access to these patents unless the inventor allows it, so it doesn't make the government richer. And if you are really questioning why everyone can't just make their own money, i must seriously call into question your knowledge of economics. Imagine if you will, a country where everyone can print their own money. I print off 100,000 dollars per year. Buttcrack McGreedy figures out a way to print off money 10x as fast as anyone else. Now Buttcrack has 100,000,000,000,000,000 dollars, and effectively now has more money than the entire government. But what value does that money hold? Well, since there are now 100 trillion dollars in the economy, Robin of the Hood decides to raid McGreedy's house and take all his money. He then disperses it equally among everyone, making everyone rich. Everyone is now happy and poverty is gone right? Wrong. Business see that now EVERYONE has lots of money, and can afford everything. So what do they do? They raise prices. A lot. Because compared to money in other countries, the dollar is now essentially toilet paper. No one has any money because EVERYONE has money. THIS is why we cannot print our own money.


Not exactly. The purpose of patents is to make the inventor wealthy in his lifetime. After some time, usually after the death of the inventor and then some, the patent expires, and the invention goes into the public domain. Now, everyone has access to the blueprints and can make their own thingy. OR, they can choose to improve upon the design and make a new patent. The only reason it kinda sucks now is because Walt Grubby-fingers Disney decided to sexually assault our patent laws with his lobbying and extend patent length to the lifetime of the creator PLUS 70 YEARS, all so he could keep his stupid rodent to himself.


Um, try the Roman Empire, one of the most successful and powerful empires to exist in all of History. Yes, they fell, but so did all of the ones who didn't regulate their money, so its kind of moot. Pretty sure it was the same with the Greeks. Those who didn't regulate often didn't use money. They bartered, or traded. This is still the case in many third world countries.


I fail to see how any of this relates to Islam, but okay.

Response: You just stated that the reason why everyone cannot produce their own currency or doing so is a bad idea because.......business will raise their prices? If I produce my own currency, I don't have to rely on the prices of another business and can make my own business and lower prices to have a competitive advantage or simply produce more currency if I wanted to purchase from a business that raises its prices.

Simply put, what you stated made absolutely no logical sense.

Fair enough. However, the idea of inflation is really what keeps us from printing all the money we want.

inflation:
ECONOMICS
a general increase in prices and fall in the purchasing value of money.
"policies aimed at controlling inflation"

What causes inflation?
Essentially, having too much money floating around in the market. Take Zimbabwe as an example of Hyperinflation, where a government prints so much money, it is deemed useless by inflation.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

The same thing happened in the weimar republic (modern day germany) in the 20s, when they attempted to print more money in order to help cover debt from WW1.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Now imagine what would happen if we let EVERYONE print as much money as they want. Economists would be throwing themselves off of buildings left and right. Our currency would be better used as wallpaper, which in fact people actually did in the Weimar Republic.

As for the rest, it doesn't relate to Islam, which is my whole point. The lack of advancement of Muslim nations is not because of Islam, and your own words saying patents allow the inventor to be wealthy makes my point that it makes them wealthy.

That's just capitalism. It's the idea of "reaping what you sow" in economics. An inventor revolutionized the world with his invention. What is wrong with him profiting from it?

Not the public and the industrial revolution was not is the result of governments capitalizing off the inventions and becoming wealthy as well, and not the general public.

Other than maybe taxing inventors, the government has no direct benefit from copyrights. Otherwise we would have government made iphones and lightbulbs.
bamiller43
Posts: 200
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8/17/2016 4:32:41 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 4:13:35 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 8/17/2016 2:38:43 AM, bamiller43 wrote:
At 8/16/2016 11:17:29 PM, Fatihah wrote:
The Western government creates patent laws that allows for new inventions to be unavailable for copyright and duplication by the public for years, making the inventor and the government to be the only ones who know how to make the invention and become wealthy from it. So during the industrial revolution, the way to make new inventions was not shared to the public while political leaders used their wealth and authority to make people build factories for the mass production of inventions, paid the workers poorly and established a low minimum wage, and also outlawed the ability to produce the currency by the public unless it is officially made by the government and created a system where the government produced currency is the only valuable currency.

The purpose of patent and copyright laws are basically as you stated: to make the inventor wealthy. To my knowledge, the government has no access to these patents unless the inventor allows it, so it doesn't make the government richer. And if you are really questioning why everyone can't just make their own money, i must seriously call into question your knowledge of economics. Imagine if you will, a country where everyone can print their own money. I print off 100,000 dollars per year. Buttcrack McGreedy figures out a way to print off money 10x as fast as anyone else. Now Buttcrack has 100,000,000,000,000,000 dollars, and effectively now has more money than the entire government. But what value does that money hold? Well, since there are now 100 trillion dollars in the economy, Robin of the Hood decides to raid McGreedy's house and take all his money. He then disperses it equally among everyone, making everyone rich. Everyone is now happy and poverty is gone right? Wrong. Business see that now EVERYONE has lots of money, and can afford everything. So what do they do? They raise prices. A lot. Because compared to money in other countries, the dollar is now essentially toilet paper. No one has any money because EVERYONE has money. THIS is why we cannot print our own money.

This set up means that citizens are forced and have no choice but to depend on the government and undergo slave labor since they have no idea how to create the inventions themselves and can no longer create their own currency of equal value in the system and at the same time, the rich become richer and more and society is more advanced from the slave labor.

Not exactly. The purpose of patents is to make the inventor wealthy in his lifetime. After some time, usually after the death of the inventor and then some, the patent expires, and the invention goes into the public domain. Now, everyone has access to the blueprints and can make their own thingy. OR, they can choose to improve upon the design and make a new patent. The only reason it kinda sucks now is because Walt Grubby-fingers Disney decided to sexually assault our patent laws with his lobbying and extend patent length to the lifetime of the creator PLUS 70 YEARS, all so he could keep his stupid rodent to himself.

You are confusing copyright with patent. A patent lasts 20 years. The purpose of which is to drive innovation as it protects the time and investment put forth making inventing and developing new ideas making it a profitable venture.

Oh. Thanks for the clarification.

At no time in history was this ever practiced as currency could be produced by anyone such as a piece of gold and ideas and inventions were readily and easily shared.

Um, try the Roman Empire, one of the most successful and powerful empires to exist in all of History. Yes, they fell, but so did all of the ones who didn't regulate their money, so its kind of moot. Pretty sure it was the same with the Greeks. Those who didn't regulate often didn't use money. They bartered, or traded. This is still the case in many third world countries.

Even more interesting is that the new ideas of the West that allowed them to be advanced originally did not come from them. Yet they put laws into play that prevents others from learning from them, while depending on them.

So because Muslims have not used and adopted such unjust slave labor practices to become the most or equally advanced as the West, this makes them backwards? It's time to put things into perspective.

I fail to see how any of this relates to Islam, but okay.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,745
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8/17/2016 4:45:11 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 4:20:13 AM, bamiller43 wrote:

Fair enough. However, the idea of inflation is really what keeps us from printing all the money we want.

inflation:
ECONOMICS
a general increase in prices and fall in the purchasing value of money.
"policies aimed at controlling inflation"

What causes inflation?
Essentially, having too much money floating around in the market. Take Zimbabwe as an example of Hyperinflation, where a government prints so much money, it is deemed useless by inflation.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

The same thing happened in the weimar republic (modern day germany) in the 20s, when they attempted to print more money in order to help cover debt from WW1.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Now imagine what would happen if we let EVERYONE print as much money as they want. Economists would be throwing themselves off of buildings left and right. Our currency would be better used as wallpaper, which in fact people actually did in the Weimar Republic.

That's just capitalism. It's the idea of "reaping what you sow" in economics. An inventor revolutionized the world with his invention. What is wrong with him profiting from it?

Not the public and the industrial revolution was not is the result of governments capitalizing off the inventions and becoming wealthy as well, and not the general public.

Other than maybe taxing inventors, the government has no direct benefit from copyrights. Otherwise we would have government made iphones and lightbulbs.

Response: Inflation has nothing to do with why people cannot produce their own currency. People have done it since humans existed up until a few centuries ago, resulting from the practices of modern banking systems. Secondly, the problem of inflation is not in reference to having to much money. It refers to a condition where prices are raised to receive more money by businesses but the ability to produce currency to meet the demand is low, or there is so much money to purchase products that a business cannot meet the demand.

So the issue is not producing your own currency, but businesses raising their prices out of greed.
Gyankrit
Posts: 144
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8/17/2016 10:17:17 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 11:33:10 PM, janesix wrote:
At 8/16/2016 11:17:29 PM, Fatihah wrote:
The Western government creates patent laws that allows for new inventions to be unavailable for copyright and duplication by the public for years, making the inventor and the government to be the only ones who know how to make the invention and become wealthy from it. So during the industrial revolution, the way to make new inventions was not shared to the public while political leaders used their wealth and authority to make people build factories for the mass production of inventions, paid the workers poorly and established a low minimum wage, and also outlawed the ability to produce the currency by the public unless it is officially made by the government and created a system where the government produced currency is the only valuable currency.

This set up means that citizens are forced and have no choice but to depend on the government and undergo slave labor since they have no idea how to create the inventions themselves and can no longer create their own currency of equal value in the system and at the same time, the rich become richer and more and society is more advanced from the slave labor.

At no time in history was this ever practiced as currency could be produced by anyone such as a piece of gold and ideas and inventions were readily and easily shared. Even more interesting is that the new ideas of the West that allowed them to be advanced originally did not come from them. Yet they put laws into play that prevents others from learning from them, while depending on them.

So because Muslims have not used and adopted such unjust slave labor practices to become the most or equally advanced as the West, this makes them backwards? It's time to put things into perspective.
Islam uses the inventions of the west as they dont have the brains to create anything on their own. With an average iq of 85 i am not surprised.

West imports brain and exports technology.
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Omniverse
Posts: 973
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8/17/2016 10:37:00 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 11:17:29 PM, Fatihah wrote:
The Western government

There's no such thing as a western government.

There is however a number of western governments from various political backgrounds and which conduct public policies differently.

creates patent laws that allows for new inventions to be unavailable for copyright and duplication by the public for years, making the inventor and the government to be the only ones who know how to make the invention and become wealthy from it.

Indeed.
Individuals and companies investing years of their time and large sums of their money creating new products should reap the rewards of their investment. Otherwise, said individuals and companies will simply shy away from R&D and the whole of society will suffer.

Furthermore, those innovations eventually fall into the public domain. The 20-year period a typical patent will last is a reasonable compromise between individual and corporate rights and what benefits society at large.

So during the industrial revolution, the way to make new inventions was not shared to the public while political leaders used their wealth and authority to make people build factories for the mass production of inventions, paid the workers poorly and established a low minimum wage, and also outlawed the ability to produce the currency by the public unless it is officially made by the government and created a system where the government produced currency is the only valuable currency.

Did you say you teach English grammar, or hold a masters on it?

It's roughly been two centuries since the Industrial Revolution started and things have changed quite drastically. Two major technological revolutions have occurred since and their impact has far exceeded that of what initially happened in England some two hundred years ago.

Today, the west has the highest standard of living and is at the forefront of scientific and technological research and development.
Period.

This set up means that citizens are forced and have no choice but to depend on the government and undergo slave labor

There's no legal slave labour happening in the West. Any employee is free to quit. In a significant portion of western countries, he will even enjoy unemployment benefits for a number of months while he searches for a new job.

In parts of Africa and the Middle East, namely in areas of muslim influence, the situation is rather different.

Please do take a look at the following map:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

since they have no idea how to create the inventions themselves and can no longer create their own currency of equal value in the system and at the same time, the rich become richer and more and society is more advanced from the slave labor.

That's some broken English right there.

Anyway, it's silly to suggest everyone should be able to build their own computer, toaster or fridge. This is not the bronze age where rudimentary tools would be all one would need. Mankind is long past that stage.

Today human labour is highly dependant upon sophisticated tools, which only specialized knowledge and complex and expensive large scale industrial facilities can ever hope to produce.

At no time in history was this ever practiced as currency could be produced by anyone such as a piece of gold and ideas and inventions were readily and easily shared.

Your knowledge of world history is an utter disgrace. The pound, for example, can be traced back to the 8th, eighth, century.

Furthermore, "Paper money was introduced in Song Dynasty China during the 11th century.[83] The development of the banknote began in the seventh century, with local issues of paper currency. " (https://en.wikipedia.org... )

Anyway, today the West enjoys the highest standard of living any human society has ever enjoyed. Mind you, the west is by no means perfect. But it is superior to every single alternative, including Islamic alternatives.

Even more interesting is that the new ideas of the West that allowed them to be advanced originally did not come from them.

Your ignorance is monumental.

Conical perspective? Western discovery.
General and special relativity? Western discovery.
Quantum mechanics? Western discovery.
Computers? Western invention.
Aviation? Western invention.
Satellites, radio, TV, mobiles, cars? All Western inventions.

The list is nearly endless.

Yet they put laws into play that prevents others from learning from them, while depending on them.

You haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about.

If you had even the remotest idea, you'd know, for instance, that sharing ideas is of paramount importance in science. Congresses and conferences are held, papers are published in peer reviewed scientific magazines , and in all of these a vast body of knowledge is shared around, examined and evaluated. This modus operandi is inextricable to contemporary science and it is a Western development.
Period.

Freedom of speech in the West is also vastly greater than anywhere else in the world. Not that the West is perfect in this regard, or nay other, for that matter. It merely is superior to every other alternative, including those existing in Islamic countries, theocracies in particular. Islamic theocracies are just dreadful in this regard.

In conclusion, western freedom to share ideas and knowledge around, including the freedom to object and criticize, is simply historically unprecedented.

So because Muslims have not used and adopted such unjust slave labor practices to become the most or equally advanced as the West, this makes them backwards?

Slave labour, which is illegal in the West, exists in far higher proportion in muslim dominate areas than it does in the Europe or the US. Again, please look at the map:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

Islam is backwards because of its disgraceful morality, sexism, its shameful treatment of apostasy, etc. Like Sam Harris puts it, Islam is the motherlode of bad ideas.

It's time to put things into perspective.

It is.
By learning the basic facts you remain completely oblivious to.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,745
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8/17/2016 1:09:57 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 10:37:00 AM, Omniverse wrote:

There's no such thing as a western government.

There is however a number of western governments from various political backgrounds and which conduct public policies differently.

Indeed.
Individuals and companies investing years of their time and large sums of their money creating new products should reap the rewards of their investment. Otherwise, said individuals and companies will simply shy away from R&D and the whole of society will suffer.

Furthermore, those innovations eventually fall into the public domain. The 20-year period a typical patent will last is a reasonable compromise between individual and corporate rights and what benefits society at large.

Did you say you teach English grammar, or hold a masters on it?

It's roughly been two centuries since the Industrial Revolution started and things have changed quite drastically. Two major technological revolutions have occurred since and their impact has far exceeded that of what initially happened in England some two hundred years ago.

Today, the west has the highest standard of living and is at the forefront of scientific and technological research and development.
Period.

There's no legal slave labour happening in the West. Any employee is free to quit. In a significant portion of western countries, he will even enjoy unemployment benefits for a number of months while he searches for a new job.

In parts of Africa and the Middle East, namely in areas of muslim influence, the situation is rather different.

Please do take a look at the following map:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

That's some broken English right there.

Anyway, it's silly to suggest everyone should be able to build their own computer, toaster or fridge. This is not the bronze age where rudimentary tools would be all one would need. Mankind is long past that stage.

Today human labour is highly dependant upon sophisticated tools, which only specialized knowledge and complex and expensive large scale industrial facilities can ever hope to produce.

Your knowledge of world history is an utter disgrace. The pound, for example, can be traced back to the 8th, eighth, century.

Furthermore, "Paper money was introduced in Song Dynasty China during the 11th century.[83] The development of the banknote began in the seventh century, with local issues of paper currency. " (https://en.wikipedia.org... )

Anyway, today the West enjoys the highest standard of living any human society has ever enjoyed. Mind you, the west is by no means perfect. But it is superior to every single alternative, including Islamic alternatives.

Your ignorance is monumental.

Conical perspective? Western discovery.
General and special relativity? Western discovery.
Quantum mechanics? Western discovery.
Computers? Western invention.
Aviation? Western invention.
Satellites, radio, TV, mobiles, cars? All Western inventions.

The list is nearly endless.

You haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about.

If you had even the remotest idea, you'd know, for instance, that sharing ideas is of paramount importance in science. Congresses and conferences are held, papers are published in peer reviewed scientific magazines , and in all of these a vast body of knowledge is shared around, examined and evaluated. This modus operandi is inextricable to contemporary science and it is a Western development.
Period.

Freedom of speech in the West is also vastly greater than anywhere else in the world. Not that the West is perfect in this regard, or nay other, for that matter. It merely is superior to every other alternative, including those existing in Islamic countries, theocracies in particular. Islamic theocracies are just dreadful in this regard.

In conclusion, western freedom to share ideas and knowledge around, including the freedom to object and criticize, is simply historically unprecedented.

Slave labour, which is illegal in the West, exists in far higher proportion in muslim dominate areas than it does in the Europe or the US. Again, please look at the map:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

Islam is backwards because of its disgraceful morality, sexism, its shameful treatment of apostasy, etc. Like Sam Harris puts it, Islam is the motherlode of bad ideas.

It is.
By learning the basic facts you remain completely oblivious to.

Response: Amusing , how a person spends a lengthy time creating a lengthy post, all the while proving absolutely nothing but making my point. You didn't refute a single thing I stated and to expose your absurd claims and make it easier, I'll break each simple minded claim you made one at a time.

You failed to disprove that government does NOT have patent laws, or does NOT prevent the public to produce their own currency, or that is established low pay and minimum wage during the industrial revolution, which is slave labor. So since these facts remain, you did nothing but prove my point that these practices prevent advancement for the masses except for those who are in authority. Thus a Muslim nation that is less advanced is the result of not practicing unjust, slave labor laws and banking systems.

Debunked as usual. Try again.
Omniverse
Posts: 973
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8/17/2016 1:32:42 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 1:09:57 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:37:00 AM, Omniverse wrote:

There's no such thing as a western government.

There is however a number of western governments from various political backgrounds and which conduct public policies differently.

Indeed.
Individuals and companies investing years of their time and large sums of their money creating new products should reap the rewards of their investment. Otherwise, said individuals and companies will simply shy away from R&D and the whole of society will suffer.

Furthermore, those innovations eventually fall into the public domain. The 20-year period a typical patent will last is a reasonable compromise between individual and corporate rights and what benefits society at large.

Did you say you teach English grammar, or hold a masters on it?

It's roughly been two centuries since the Industrial Revolution started and things have changed quite drastically. Two major technological revolutions have occurred since and their impact has far exceeded that of what initially happened in England some two hundred years ago.

Today, the west has the highest standard of living and is at the forefront of scientific and technological research and development.
Period.

There's no legal slave labour happening in the West. Any employee is free to quit. In a significant portion of western countries, he will even enjoy unemployment benefits for a number of months while he searches for a new job.

In parts of Africa and the Middle East, namely in areas of muslim influence, the situation is rather different.

Please do take a look at the following map:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

That's some broken English right there.

Anyway, it's silly to suggest everyone should be able to build their own computer, toaster or fridge. This is not the bronze age where rudimentary tools would be all one would need. Mankind is long past that stage.

Today human labour is highly dependant upon sophisticated tools, which only specialized knowledge and complex and expensive large scale industrial facilities can ever hope to produce.

Your knowledge of world history is an utter disgrace. The pound, for example, can be traced back to the 8th, eighth, century.

Furthermore, "Paper money was introduced in Song Dynasty China during the 11th century.[83] The development of the banknote began in the seventh century, with local issues of paper currency. " (https://en.wikipedia.org... )

Anyway, today the West enjoys the highest standard of living any human society has ever enjoyed. Mind you, the west is by no means perfect. But it is superior to every single alternative, including Islamic alternatives.

Your ignorance is monumental.

Conical perspective? Western discovery.
General and special relativity? Western discovery.
Quantum mechanics? Western discovery.
Computers? Western invention.
Aviation? Western invention.
Satellites, radio, TV, mobiles, cars? All Western inventions.

The list is nearly endless.

You haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about.

If you had even the remotest idea, you'd know, for instance, that sharing ideas is of paramount importance in science. Congresses and conferences are held, papers are published in peer reviewed scientific magazines , and in all of these a vast body of knowledge is shared around, examined and evaluated. This modus operandi is inextricable to contemporary science and it is a Western development.
Period.

Freedom of speech in the West is also vastly greater than anywhere else in the world. Not that the West is perfect in this regard, or nay other, for that matter. It merely is superior to every other alternative, including those existing in Islamic countries, theocracies in particular. Islamic theocracies are just dreadful in this regard.

In conclusion, western freedom to share ideas and knowledge around, including the freedom to object and criticize, is simply historically unprecedented.

Slave labour, which is illegal in the West, exists in far higher proportion in muslim dominate areas than it does in the Europe or the US. Again, please look at the map:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

Islam is backwards because of its disgraceful morality, sexism, its shameful treatment of apostasy, etc. Like Sam Harris puts it, Islam is the motherlode of bad ideas.

It is.
By learning the basic facts you remain completely oblivious to.

Response: Amusing , how a person spends a lengthy time creating a lengthy post, all the while proving absolutely nothing but making my point. You didn't refute a single thing I stated and to expose your absurd claims and make it easier, I'll break each simple minded claim you made one at a time.

You failed to disprove that government does NOT have patent laws, or does NOT prevent the public to produce their own currency, or that is established low pay and minimum wage during the industrial revolution, which is slave labor. So since these facts remain, you did nothing but prove my point that these practices prevent advancement for the masses except for those who are in authority. Thus a Muslim nation that is less advanced is the result of not practicing unjust, slave labor laws and banking systems.

Debunked as usual. Try again.

And yet every single claim of yours was shown to be inaccurate or simply false, not just by my words , but by facts, references and quotes I presented from reputable third-party sources. As usual, you have provided none. None whatsoever.

As for you teaching English grammar or holding a master's degree on the subject, I don't know whom I should pity more - your hypothetical students or you, for having enrolled in the hypothetical academic institution which would award you a title on the subject.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,745
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8/17/2016 1:48:38 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 1:32:42 PM, Omniverse wrote:

And yet every single claim of yours was shown to be inaccurate or simply false, not just by my words , but by facts, references and quotes I presented from reputable third-party sources. As usual, you have provided none. None whatsoever.

As for you teaching English grammar or holding a master's degree on the subject, I don't know whom I should pity more - your hypothetical students or you, for having enrolled in the hypothetical academic institution which would award you a title on the subject.

Response: If my claims are inaccurate, then you should be able to provide the following:

One source that says government patents don't exist.
One source that says the public can produce the currency as they like.
One source that says that masses were paid a high pay rate during the industrial revolution.

Exactly. You don't have any sources. Debunked by your own absurdity, thus making my point.

As for my English grammar, the fact that you cannot point to anything I stated to be grammatically correct is proven not to be debunks you as well and clearly shows that it is you who lacks comprehension. Debunked as usual. Try again.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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8/17/2016 1:51:48 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 1:32:42 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 8/17/2016 1:09:57 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:37:00 AM, Omniverse wrote:

There's no such thing as a western government.

There is however a number of western governments from various political backgrounds and which conduct public policies differently.

Indeed.
Individuals and companies investing years of their time and large sums of their money creating new products should reap the rewards of their investment. Otherwise, said individuals and companies will simply shy away from R&D and the whole of society will suffer.

Furthermore, those innovations eventually fall into the public domain. The 20-year period a typical patent will last is a reasonable compromise between individual and corporate rights and what benefits society at large.

Did you say you teach English grammar, or hold a masters on it?

It's roughly been two centuries since the Industrial Revolution started and things have changed quite drastically. Two major technological revolutions have occurred since and their impact has far exceeded that of what initially happened in England some two hundred years ago.

Today, the west has the highest standard of living and is at the forefront of scientific and technological research and development.
Period.

There's no legal slave labour happening in the West. Any employee is free to quit. In a significant portion of western countries, he will even enjoy unemployment benefits for a number of months while he searches for a new job.

In parts of Africa and the Middle East, namely in areas of muslim influence, the situation is rather different.

Please do take a look at the following map:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

That's some broken English right there.

Anyway, it's silly to suggest everyone should be able to build their own computer, toaster or fridge. This is not the bronze age where rudimentary tools would be all one would need. Mankind is long past that stage.

Today human labour is highly dependant upon sophisticated tools, which only specialized knowledge and complex and expensive large scale industrial facilities can ever hope to produce.

Your knowledge of world history is an utter disgrace. The pound, for example, can be traced back to the 8th, eighth, century.

Furthermore, "Paper money was introduced in Song Dynasty China during the 11th century.[83] The development of the banknote began in the seventh century, with local issues of paper currency. " (https://en.wikipedia.org... )

Anyway, today the West enjoys the highest standard of living any human society has ever enjoyed. Mind you, the west is by no means perfect. But it is superior to every single alternative, including Islamic alternatives.

Your ignorance is monumental.

Conical perspective? Western discovery.
General and special relativity? Western discovery.
Quantum mechanics? Western discovery.
Computers? Western invention.
Aviation? Western invention.
Satellites, radio, TV, mobiles, cars? All Western inventions.

The list is nearly endless.

You haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about.

If you had even the remotest idea, you'd know, for instance, that sharing ideas is of paramount importance in science. Congresses and conferences are held, papers are published in peer reviewed scientific magazines , and in all of these a vast body of knowledge is shared around, examined and evaluated. This modus operandi is inextricable to contemporary science and it is a Western development.
Period.

Freedom of speech in the West is also vastly greater than anywhere else in the world. Not that the West is perfect in this regard, or nay other, for that matter. It merely is superior to every other alternative, including those existing in Islamic countries, theocracies in particular. Islamic theocracies are just dreadful in this regard.

In conclusion, western freedom to share ideas and knowledge around, including the freedom to object and criticize, is simply historically unprecedented.

Slave labour, which is illegal in the West, exists in far higher proportion in muslim dominate areas than it does in the Europe or the US. Again, please look at the map:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

Islam is backwards because of its disgraceful morality, sexism, its shameful treatment of apostasy, etc. Like Sam Harris puts it, Islam is the motherlode of bad ideas.

It is.
By learning the basic facts you remain completely oblivious to.

Response: Amusing , how a person spends a lengthy time creating a lengthy post, all the while proving absolutely nothing but making my point. You didn't refute a single thing I stated and to expose your absurd claims and make it easier, I'll break each simple minded claim you made one at a time.

You failed to disprove that government does NOT have patent laws, or does NOT prevent the public to produce their own currency, or that is established low pay and minimum wage during the industrial revolution, which is slave labor. So since these facts remain, you did nothing but prove my point that these practices prevent advancement for the masses except for those who are in authority. Thus a Muslim nation that is less advanced is the result of not practicing unjust, slave labor laws and banking systems.

Debunked as usual. Try again.

And yet every single claim of yours was shown to be inaccurate or simply false, not just by my words , but by facts, references and quotes I presented from reputable third-party sources. As usual, you have provided none. None whatsoever.

As for you teaching English grammar or holding a master's degree on the subject, I don't know whom I should pity more - your hypothetical students or you, for having enrolled in the hypothetical academic institution which would award you a title on the subject.

Omni, save yourself a lot of time and bother. Bang your head against a brick wall for an hour or two. It will have the same effect as trying to reason with Fati, but you will feel healthier, happier and cleaner for it.