Total Posts:68|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Bible:Women should put up with domestic abuse

Chloe8
Posts: 2,580
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 8:59:58 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
In modern society, governments have set up systems to protect people from being mistreated, whether it"s battered women, neglected children, or marginalized elderly. But the Bible seems to have a different view:

1 Peter 2:18-21

Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God. But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

What this is telling us, along with the clearly ungodly support of slavery, is that mistreatment is a blessing. If your husband beats you, then the suffering is commendable before God. It should be painfully obvious that this idea would not have originated with an almighty deity. It is a reflection of a backwards Bronze Age society that had no concept of modern-day morality. It is highly likely that some fundamentalists have used this scripture to justify the unmerited harsh treatment of vulnerable people. If God is telling slaves to submit themselves to harsh masters, then shouldn"t women submit themselves to wife-beating husbands?
graceofgod
Posts: 5,037
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 9:23:16 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 8:59:58 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In modern society, governments have set up systems to protect people from being mistreated, whether it"s battered women, neglected children, or marginalized elderly. But the Bible seems to have a different view:

1 Peter 2:18-21

Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God. But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

What this is telling us, along with the clearly ungodly support of slavery, is that mistreatment is a blessing. If your husband beats you, then the suffering is commendable before God. It should be painfully obvious that this idea would not have originated with an almighty deity. It is a reflection of a backwards Bronze Age society that had no concept of modern-day morality. It is highly likely that some fundamentalists have used this scripture to justify the unmerited harsh treatment of vulnerable people. If God is telling slaves to submit themselves to harsh masters, then shouldn"t women submit themselves to wife-beating husbands?

you really do get it wrong every time, where does it mention in this wives being beaten...??
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 9:34:19 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Chloe, I'm afraid it's worse than that. Under Christian canon law, marriage is for life, and the only lawful cause for divorce is adultery -- not misery, cruelty, disrespect or abuse -- and it's the husband who must initiate:

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. [Matthew 5:31-32]

Because to leave a husband for any cause is a sin:

10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband [1 Cor 7:10]

And even if she does leave, she must not seek a better life with someone decent:

11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. [1 Cor 7:11]

Because ultimately, she should strive to be the hard-working patriarchal chattel she was born to be...

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. [Eph 5:23]

...working hard for her maybe estranged, possibly lazy, brutal and conceited hubby while he's taking his ease and jaw-wagging among the elders, to whose company Mrs Submissive is not herself admitted:

10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies. 11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil. 12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life. 13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands. 14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar. 15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens. 16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard. 17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms. 18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night. 19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff. 20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy. 21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet. 22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple. 23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land. 24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant. [Proverbs 31:10-24]

And heavens forfend that she should even refuse Mr Princely sex:

4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. [1 Cor 7:4]

And that's utterly equitable, because, y'know... a wife's power to enforce her wishes on someone 20% bigger and 30% stronger, is well known.

Now, why you should have a problem with ancient Christians permanently enshrining patriarchy, disrespect, injustice, abuse, domestic serfdom, marital rape, and intergenerational economic and political exploitation in incontestable divine law, is beyond me.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,037
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 9:40:53 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 9:34:19 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
Chloe, I'm afraid it's worse than that. Under Christian canon law, marriage is for life, and the only lawful cause for divorce is adultery -- not misery, cruelty, disrespect or abuse -- and it's the husband who must initiate:

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. [Matthew 5:31-32]

Because to leave a husband for any cause is a sin:

10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband [1 Cor 7:10]

And even if she does leave, she must not seek a better life with someone decent:

11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. [1 Cor 7:11]

Because ultimately, she should strive to be the hard-working patriarchal chattel she was born to be...

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. [Eph 5:23]

...working hard for her maybe estranged, possibly lazy, brutal and conceited hubby while he's taking his ease and jaw-wagging among the elders, to whose company Mrs Submissive is not herself admitted:

10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies. 11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil. 12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life. 13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands. 14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar. 15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens. 16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard. 17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms. 18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night. 19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff. 20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy. 21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet. 22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple. 23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land. 24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant. [Proverbs 31:10-24]

And heavens forfend that she should even refuse Mr Princely sex:

4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. [1 Cor 7:4]

And that's utterly equitable, because, y'know... a wife's power to enforce her wishes on someone 20% bigger and 30% stronger, is well known.

Now, why you should have a problem with ancient Christians permanently enshrining patriarchy, disrespect, injustice, abuse, domestic serfdom, marital rape, and intergenerational economic and political exploitation in incontestable divine law, is beyond me.

yes how terrible the bible is, let not the woman put away her husband or the husband put away his wife...

what a terrible notion instead of instant marriages and even more instant divorce the bible says try at your marriage stick with it, don't just give up,
yes it seems good to just dump who ever when ever and find something you see as better but look at the broken families....
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 9:44:10 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
I know way more men who have been suffered domestic abuse than women.

Hell, my best friend's wife tried to convince him to kill himself for an entire year before he ended up running away. Poor guy doesn't have any teeth left either, because she kicked them all out. The sick thing is, this friend I'm talking about is a legitimate kung fu wizard. He'd probably be the biggest bad arse in Texas if Chuck Norris didn't live there. Hahaha. I've seen him beat four people up at the same time, and all of them were armed. One guy came at him with a can of pepper spray, and he turned around and wooped his arse backwards. I saw someone pull a gun out on him, and he made the guy eat the bullets in it. One time, the police were trying to handcuff him, and he ended up cuffing the officer to himself. He immediately realized what he did, and pulled the crazy card. Miraculously, it worked, and they just put him in a mental hospital. Really great guy, he has a "Hero of the City" award for rescuing a family that was trapped in their car due to fallen power lines. He is one of the most devout people you'd ever meet too, he takes the discipline very seriously. It's really a pleasure to work with him.

But nah, we can pretend the false narrative is true that women don't physically and emotionally abuse their men. I see it as being far more common than the other way around. It is culturally looked down on very heavily for a man to strike a woman, so there are a lot of men who simply take the abuse. Oh yeah, and police tend to laugh at men when they say their women beat them.

If I didn't see it happen all the time.. Just saying.

Also just saying, it is not Christian for a husband or wife to be abusive to each other. 1 Corinthians 13 on that one.

And that is my useless contribution to this topic.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 9:50:44 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 9:40:53 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:34:19 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
Now, why you should have a problem with ancient Christians permanently enshrining patriarchy, disrespect, injustice, abuse, domestic serfdom, marital rape, and intergenerational economic and political exploitation in incontestable divine law, is beyond me.
yes how terrible the bible is, let not the woman put away her husband or the husband put away his wife...
what a terrible notion instead of instant marriages and even more instant divorce the bible says try at your marriage stick with it, don't just give up,
yes it seems good to just dump who ever when ever and find something you see as better but look at the broken families....

GoGsy, it's laudible to try and improve the quality and viability of marriage, but seriously -- is that really the smartest, fairest, most effective way to do it? Isn't it more likely to trap women in cruel, loveless, exploitative marriages than ensure marriages are an equitable partnership built on mutual respect?

Would you be interested in seeing the marital satisfaction stats in (say) Roman Catholic countries with canonical proscriptions against divorce, vs countries with no-fault divorce?

And if Christians know those arrangements are abusive and have abandoned such unfair law in droves, what does that say about the divine inspiration of these books, and the unwarranted cruelty that may be endemic in other canon law which affects not just Christians but all those whose lives Christians take it upon themselves to order?
Chloe8
Posts: 2,580
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 9:53:51 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 9:34:19 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
Chloe, I'm afraid it's worse than that. Under Christian canon law, marriage is for life, and the only lawful cause for divorce is adultery -- not misery, cruelty, disrespect or abuse -- and it's the husband who must initiate:

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. [Matthew 5:31-32]

Because to leave a husband for any cause is a sin:

10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband [1 Cor 7:10]

And even if she does leave, she must not seek a better life with someone decent:

11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. [1 Cor 7:11]

Because ultimately, she should strive to be the hard-working patriarchal chattel she was born to be...

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. [Eph 5:23]

...working hard for her maybe estranged, possibly lazy, brutal and conceited hubby while he's taking his ease and jaw-wagging among the elders, to whose company Mrs Submissive is not herself admitted:

10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies. 11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil. 12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life. 13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands. 14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar. 15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens. 16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard. 17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms. 18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night. 19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff. 20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy. 21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet. 22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple. 23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land. 24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant. [Proverbs 31:10-24]

And heavens forfend that she should even refuse Mr Princely sex:

4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. [1 Cor 7:4]

And that's utterly equitable, because, y'know... a wife's power to enforce her wishes on someone 20% bigger and 30% stronger, is well known.

Now, why you should have a problem with ancient Christians permanently enshrining patriarchy, disrespect, injustice, abuse, domestic serfdom, marital rape, and intergenerational economic and political exploitation in incontestable divine law, is beyond me.

Yes it's these kind of verses that show why we as a society should take an aggressive stance against Christianity. If someone invented it today society would take an aggressive stance against such a backward looking religion with a holy book full of intolerant often evil beliefs lacking any credible verifiable evidence supporting its authenticity as a true religion.

It's a shame it is indoctrinated into society and many of those with significant influence are among the deluded/ignorant who have been tricked into believing it's lies.
Omniverse
Posts: 973
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 9:54:39 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 9:34:19 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
Chloe, I'm afraid it's worse than that. Under Christian canon law, marriage is for life, and the only lawful cause for divorce is adultery -- not misery, cruelty, disrespect or abuse -- and it's the husband who must initiate:

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. [Matthew 5:31-32]

Because to leave a husband for any cause is a sin:

10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband [1 Cor 7:10]

And even if she does leave, she must not seek a better life with someone decent:

11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. [1 Cor 7:11]

Because ultimately, she should strive to be the hard-working patriarchal chattel she was born to be...

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. [Eph 5:23]

...working hard for her maybe estranged, possibly lazy, brutal and conceited hubby while he's taking his ease and jaw-wagging among the elders, to whose company Mrs Submissive is not herself admitted:

10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies. 11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil. 12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life. 13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands. 14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar. 15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens. 16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard. 17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms. 18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night. 19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff. 20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy. 21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet. 22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple. 23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land. 24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant. [Proverbs 31:10-24]

And heavens forfend that she should even refuse Mr Princely sex:

4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. [1 Cor 7:4]

And that's utterly equitable, because, y'know... a wife's power to enforce her wishes on someone 20% bigger and 30% stronger, is well known.

Now, why you should have a problem with ancient Christians permanently enshrining patriarchy, disrespect, injustice, abuse, domestic serfdom, marital rape, and intergenerational economic and political exploitation in incontestable divine law, is beyond me.

Exactly.
And that is one of the reasons Christianity is a fool proof recipe for human unhappiness. Can you imagine staying in a loveless marriage, let alone an abusive marriage, and for life?
Chloe8
Posts: 2,580
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 9:56:14 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 9:23:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/17/2016 8:59:58 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In modern society, governments have set up systems to protect people from being mistreated, whether it"s battered women, neglected children, or marginalized elderly. But the Bible seems to have a different view:

1 Peter 2:18-21

Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God. But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

What this is telling us, along with the clearly ungodly support of slavery, is that mistreatment is a blessing. If your husband beats you, then the suffering is commendable before God. It should be painfully obvious that this idea would not have originated with an almighty deity. It is a reflection of a backwards Bronze Age society that had no concept of modern-day morality. It is highly likely that some fundamentalists have used this scripture to justify the unmerited harsh treatment of vulnerable people. If God is telling slaves to submit themselves to harsh masters, then shouldn"t women submit themselves to wife-beating husbands?

you really do get it wrong every time, where does it mention in this wives being beaten...??

It says that suffering should be tolerated and it's commendable to suffer in silence at the hands of an abuser even when you have done nothing wrong.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,580
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 9:59:35 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 9:40:53 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:34:19 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
Chloe, I'm afraid it's worse than that. Under Christian canon law, marriage is for life, and the only lawful cause for divorce is adultery -- not misery, cruelty, disrespect or abuse -- and it's the husband who must initiate:

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. [Matthew 5:31-32]

Because to leave a husband for any cause is a sin:

10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband [1 Cor 7:10]

And even if she does leave, she must not seek a better life with someone decent:

11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. [1 Cor 7:11]

Because ultimately, she should strive to be the hard-working patriarchal chattel she was born to be...

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. [Eph 5:23]

...working hard for her maybe estranged, possibly lazy, brutal and conceited hubby while he's taking his ease and jaw-wagging among the elders, to whose company Mrs Submissive is not herself admitted:

10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies. 11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil. 12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life. 13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands. 14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar. 15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens. 16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard. 17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms. 18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night. 19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff. 20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy. 21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet. 22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple. 23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land. 24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant. [Proverbs 31:10-24]

And heavens forfend that she should even refuse Mr Princely sex:

4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. [1 Cor 7:4]

And that's utterly equitable, because, y'know... a wife's power to enforce her wishes on someone 20% bigger and 30% stronger, is well known.

Now, why you should have a problem with ancient Christians permanently enshrining patriarchy, disrespect, injustice, abuse, domestic serfdom, marital rape, and intergenerational economic and political exploitation in incontestable divine law, is beyond me.

yes how terrible the bible is, let not the woman put away her husband or the husband put away his wife...

what a terrible notion instead of instant marriages and even more instant divorce the bible says try at your marriage stick with it, don't just give up,
yes it seems good to just dump who ever when ever and find something you see as better but look at the broken families....

So if a woman gets married and her husband turns out to be a wife beater she should be forced be endure the abuse for the rest of her life?
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 10:02:58 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Yeah, it's stated pretty clearly in The New Testament that followers of Christ should expect persecution.

Look at the vitriol that atheists speak towards me, when the only thing I ever really say is "Believe The Truth!".

I'm certain that some of these people would silence me if they had the chance. This is not a strange thing. Historically, people who had the audacity to speak the truth in a world that loved to believe in lies faced horrible torture and execution. People think we live in such enlightened times, but we are probably only a few generations away from that mentality becoming a reality again. It wasn't that long ago that they tortured and killed Christians in The Soviet Union. There are places today where this is still going on.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
Chloe8
Posts: 2,580
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 10:09:24 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 9:44:10 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I know way more men who have been suffered domestic abuse than women.

Hell, my best friend's wife tried to convince him to kill himself for an entire year before he ended up running away. Poor guy doesn't have any teeth left either, because she kicked them all out. The sick thing is, this friend I'm talking about is a legitimate kung fu wizard. He'd probably be the biggest bad arse in Texas if Chuck Norris didn't live there. Hahaha. I've seen him beat four people up at the same time, and all of them were armed. One guy came at him with a can of pepper spray, and he turned around and wooped his arse backwards. I saw someone pull a gun out on him, and he made the guy eat the bullets in it. One time, the police were trying to handcuff him, and he ended up cuffing the officer to himself. He immediately realized what he did, and pulled the crazy card. Miraculously, it worked, and they just put him in a mental hospital. Really great guy, he has a "Hero of the City" award for rescuing a family that was trapped in their car due to fallen power lines. He is one of the most devout people you'd ever meet too, he takes the discipline very seriously. It's really a pleasure to work with him.

But nah, we can pretend the false narrative is true that women don't physically and emotionally abuse their men. I see it as being far more common than the other way around. It is culturally looked down on very heavily for a man to strike a woman, so there are a lot of men who simply take the abuse. Oh yeah, and police tend to laugh at men when they say their women beat them.

If I didn't see it happen all the time.. Just saying.

Also just saying, it is not Christian for a husband or wife to be abusive to each other. 1 Corinthians 13 on that one.



And that is my useless contribution to this topic.

Its true men suffer domestic abuse as well. No one should be forced to endure it. If a man told me he was suffering from domestic abuse I would be sympathetic and take his concerns just as seriously as if it was a woman telling me she was suffering from domestic abuse.

I welcome your contribution. It's good to highlight all cases of domestic abuse. My advice to you is to encourage your friend to leave that miserable bitch. I would even consider taking your concerns to the police or encourage him to do so.

Domestic abuse is simply completely unacceptable in all circumstances. Men should not be ashamed to come forward about their suffering and society should support them when they do so.
Omniverse
Posts: 973
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 10:13:07 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 10:02:58 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Yeah, it's stated pretty clearly in The New Testament that followers of Christ should expect persecution.

Look at the vitriol that atheists speak towards me, when the only thing I ever really say is "Believe The Truth!".

Yet no atheist has ever said of you what you routinely say about them, that they "deserve to be fed to the dogs."

At least have some decency , man.


I'm certain that some of these people would silence me if they had the chance.

I would say - judging from the reactions - no one wants to silence you. You have very little of worth to say and the reaction you mostly seem to elicit is boredom.

This is not a strange thing. Historically, people who had the audacity to speak the truth in a world that loved to believe in lies faced horrible torture and execution. People think we live in such enlightened times, but we are probably only a few generations away from that mentality becoming a reality again. It wasn't that long ago that they tortured and killed Christians in The Soviet Union.

It's not the first time you let us in on your overtly right wing politics.
Thanks.

As for the persecution of Christians in the former Soviet Union, which did happen, albeit not because of the reasons you're insinuating, I am willing to bet you know very little about it. Tough luck then that I know a thing or two about it.

Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are persecuted to this day in some parts of the world. Do you think that validates Mormonism and the JW movement?
Chloe8
Posts: 2,580
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 10:15:10 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 10:02:58 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Yeah, it's stated pretty clearly in The New Testament that followers of Christ should expect persecution.

Look at the vitriol that atheists speak towards me, when the only thing I ever really say is "Believe The Truth!".

I'm certain that some of these people would silence me if they had the chance. This is not a strange thing. Historically, people who had the audacity to speak the truth in a world that loved to believe in lies faced horrible torture and execution. People think we live in such enlightened times, but we are probably only a few generations away from that mentality becoming a reality again. It wasn't that long ago that they tortured and killed Christians in The Soviet Union. There are places today where this is still going on.

If I voiced my opinions in many Christian nations throughout history I would have been executed for them. The simple fact is many barbaric and intolerant regimes have existed over the last 2, 000 years. People of all faiths and none have been subjected to persecution for their beliefs.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 10:17:06 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 10:09:24 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:44:10 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I know way more men who have been suffered domestic abuse than women.

Hell, my best friend's wife tried to convince him to kill himself for an entire year before he ended up running away. Poor guy doesn't have any teeth left either, because she kicked them all out. The sick thing is, this friend I'm talking about is a legitimate kung fu wizard. He'd probably be the biggest bad arse in Texas if Chuck Norris didn't live there. Hahaha. I've seen him beat four people up at the same time, and all of them were armed. One guy came at him with a can of pepper spray, and he turned around and wooped his arse backwards. I saw someone pull a gun out on him, and he made the guy eat the bullets in it. One time, the police were trying to handcuff him, and he ended up cuffing the officer to himself. He immediately realized what he did, and pulled the crazy card. Miraculously, it worked, and they just put him in a mental hospital. Really great guy, he has a "Hero of the City" award for rescuing a family that was trapped in their car due to fallen power lines. He is one of the most devout people you'd ever meet too, he takes the discipline very seriously. It's really a pleasure to work with him.

But nah, we can pretend the false narrative is true that women don't physically and emotionally abuse their men. I see it as being far more common than the other way around. It is culturally looked down on very heavily for a man to strike a woman, so there are a lot of men who simply take the abuse. Oh yeah, and police tend to laugh at men when they say their women beat them.

If I didn't see it happen all the time.. Just saying.

Also just saying, it is not Christian for a husband or wife to be abusive to each other. 1 Corinthians 13 on that one.



And that is my useless contribution to this topic.

Its true men suffer domestic abuse as well. No one should be forced to endure it. If a man told me he was suffering from domestic abuse I would be sympathetic and take his concerns just as seriously as if it was a woman telling me she was suffering from domestic abuse.

I welcome your contribution. It's good to highlight all cases of domestic abuse. My advice to you is to encourage your friend to leave that miserable bitch. I would even consider taking your concerns to the police or encourage him to do so.

Domestic abuse is simply completely unacceptable in all circumstances. Men should not be ashamed to come forward about their suffering and society should support them when they do so.

Christianity does not condone slavery, nor does it condone domestic abuse. Christians are to endure persecution and hardship with grace and longsuffering, but that does not mean that the teachings are sympathetic towards those who do evil.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 10:27:40 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 10:13:07 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:02:58 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Yeah, it's stated pretty clearly in The New Testament that followers of Christ should expect persecution.

Look at the vitriol that atheists speak towards me, when the only thing I ever really say is "Believe The Truth!".

Yet no atheist has ever said of you what you routinely say about them, that they "deserve to be fed to the dogs."

At least have some decency , man.


Yet, I also say, "If not for the blood of Jesus, these people would not be allowed to live."


I'm certain that some of these people would silence me if they had the chance.

I would say - judging from the reactions - no one wants to silence you. You have very little of worth to say and the reaction you mostly seem to elicit is boredom.


I've been told to go away several times now. One person even attempted to block my posts, which spiritually is the same thing as killing someone.

This is not a strange thing. Historically, people who had the audacity to speak the truth in a world that loved to believe in lies faced horrible torture and execution. People think we live in such enlightened times, but we are probably only a few generations away from that mentality becoming a reality again. It wasn't that long ago that they tortured and killed Christians in The Soviet Union.

It's not the first time you let us in on your overtly right wing politics.
Thanks.

As for the persecution of Christians in the former Soviet Union, which did happen, albeit not because of the reasons you're insinuating, I am willing to bet you know very little about it. Tough luck then that I know a thing or two about it.

Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are persecuted to this day in some parts of the world. Do you think that validates Mormonism and the JW movement?

Murderers and thieves are persecuted, does that validate what they do?
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
Chloe8
Posts: 2,580
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 10:28:51 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 10:17:06 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:09:24 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:44:10 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I know way more men who have been suffered domestic abuse than women.

Hell, my best friend's wife tried to convince him to kill himself for an entire year before he ended up running away. Poor guy doesn't have any teeth left either, because she kicked them all out. The sick thing is, this friend I'm talking about is a legitimate kung fu wizard. He'd probably be the biggest bad arse in Texas if Chuck Norris didn't live there. Hahaha. I've seen him beat four people up at the same time, and all of them were armed. One guy came at him with a can of pepper spray, and he turned around and wooped his arse backwards. I saw someone pull a gun out on him, and he made the guy eat the bullets in it. One time, the police were trying to handcuff him, and he ended up cuffing the officer to himself. He immediately realized what he did, and pulled the crazy card. Miraculously, it worked, and they just put him in a mental hospital. Really great guy, he has a "Hero of the City" award for rescuing a family that was trapped in their car due to fallen power lines. He is one of the most devout people you'd ever meet too, he takes the discipline very seriously. It's really a pleasure to work with him.

But nah, we can pretend the false narrative is true that women don't physically and emotionally abuse their men. I see it as being far more common than the other way around. It is culturally looked down on very heavily for a man to strike a woman, so there are a lot of men who simply take the abuse. Oh yeah, and police tend to laugh at men when they say their women beat them.

If I didn't see it happen all the time.. Just saying.

Also just saying, it is not Christian for a husband or wife to be abusive to each other. 1 Corinthians 13 on that one.



And that is my useless contribution to this topic.

Its true men suffer domestic abuse as well. No one should be forced to endure it. If a man told me he was suffering from domestic abuse I would be sympathetic and take his concerns just as seriously as if it was a woman telling me she was suffering from domestic abuse.

I welcome your contribution. It's good to highlight all cases of domestic abuse. My advice to you is to encourage your friend to leave that miserable bitch. I would even consider taking your concerns to the police or encourage him to do so.

Domestic abuse is simply completely unacceptable in all circumstances. Men should not be ashamed to come forward about their suffering and society should support them when they do so.

Christianity does not condone slavery, nor does it condone domestic abuse. Christians are to endure persecution and hardship with grace and longsuffering, but that does not mean that the teachings are sympathetic towards those who do evil.

The bible condones slavery.

Exodus Chapter 21, verse 20:

If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 10:29:58 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 9:54:39 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:34:19 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
Why you should have a problem with ancient Christians permanently enshrining patriarchy, disrespect, injustice, abuse, domestic serfdom, marital rape, and intergenerational economic and political exploitation in incontestable divine law, is beyond me.
Can you imagine staying in a loveless marriage, let alone an abusive marriage, and for life?

We know that secular law makes more impact on Christian marriage decisions than canon law. For example, topping the world divorce:marriage rates are the Roman Catholic majority countries of Belgium, Portugal and Hungary with 71%, 68% and 67% respectively. The US, a country high in Protestant religiosity, ranks 11th in world divorce rates at 53%. [https://en.wikipedia.org...] However, there's also an inverse relationship between divorce rates and marital satisfaction. With its 53% divorce rate, the US also has a 74% marital satisfaction rate of 'very satisfied' or better. Canada, with 48% divorce, has 78%, while Italy, home of Roman Catholicism and with the lowest divorce rate in the developed world of 25%, also has only a 48% marital satisfaction rate. [http://www.acop.com...]

And that is one of the reasons Christianity is a fool proof recipe for human unhappiness
It might not be misery-making for everyone, but that doesn't make Christian canon law is fair or good to impose on anyone -- even Christians. I believe the broader lessons are that:

1) Given the legal and individual choices to do so, Christians ignore canon law at will for better equity, agency and happiness;
2) Moreover, Christians bound legally to canon law may be more miserable than those who aren't; while
3) Given that Christians are ignoring canon law in droves to avoid being made miserable by it, Christians should never inflict canon law on the lives of those unwilling or unable to live by it.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 10:29:58 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 10:15:10 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:02:58 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Yeah, it's stated pretty clearly in The New Testament that followers of Christ should expect persecution.

Look at the vitriol that atheists speak towards me, when the only thing I ever really say is "Believe The Truth!".

I'm certain that some of these people would silence me if they had the chance. This is not a strange thing. Historically, people who had the audacity to speak the truth in a world that loved to believe in lies faced horrible torture and execution. People think we live in such enlightened times, but we are probably only a few generations away from that mentality becoming a reality again. It wasn't that long ago that they tortured and killed Christians in The Soviet Union. There are places today where this is still going on.

If I voiced my opinions in many Christian nations throughout history I would have been executed for them. The simple fact is many barbaric and intolerant regimes have existed over the last 2, 000 years. People of all faiths and none have been subjected to persecution for their beliefs.

Not everyone who says they are a disciple of Jesus is a disciple of Jesus. Even Jesus says this.

Evil people are persecuted. Being persecuted for the sake of righteousness is something different all together.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 10:35:53 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 10:28:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:17:06 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:09:24 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:44:10 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I know way more men who have been suffered domestic abuse than women.

Hell, my best friend's wife tried to convince him to kill himself for an entire year before he ended up running away. Poor guy doesn't have any teeth left either, because she kicked them all out. The sick thing is, this friend I'm talking about is a legitimate kung fu wizard. He'd probably be the biggest bad arse in Texas if Chuck Norris didn't live there. Hahaha. I've seen him beat four people up at the same time, and all of them were armed. One guy came at him with a can of pepper spray, and he turned around and wooped his arse backwards. I saw someone pull a gun out on him, and he made the guy eat the bullets in it. One time, the police were trying to handcuff him, and he ended up cuffing the officer to himself. He immediately realized what he did, and pulled the crazy card. Miraculously, it worked, and they just put him in a mental hospital. Really great guy, he has a "Hero of the City" award for rescuing a family that was trapped in their car due to fallen power lines. He is one of the most devout people you'd ever meet too, he takes the discipline very seriously. It's really a pleasure to work with him.

But nah, we can pretend the false narrative is true that women don't physically and emotionally abuse their men. I see it as being far more common than the other way around. It is culturally looked down on very heavily for a man to strike a woman, so there are a lot of men who simply take the abuse. Oh yeah, and police tend to laugh at men when they say their women beat them.

If I didn't see it happen all the time.. Just saying.

Also just saying, it is not Christian for a husband or wife to be abusive to each other. 1 Corinthians 13 on that one.



And that is my useless contribution to this topic.

Its true men suffer domestic abuse as well. No one should be forced to endure it. If a man told me he was suffering from domestic abuse I would be sympathetic and take his concerns just as seriously as if it was a woman telling me she was suffering from domestic abuse.

I welcome your contribution. It's good to highlight all cases of domestic abuse. My advice to you is to encourage your friend to leave that miserable bitch. I would even consider taking your concerns to the police or encourage him to do so.

Domestic abuse is simply completely unacceptable in all circumstances. Men should not be ashamed to come forward about their suffering and society should support them when they do so.

Christianity does not condone slavery, nor does it condone domestic abuse. Christians are to endure persecution and hardship with grace and longsuffering, but that does not mean that the teachings are sympathetic towards those who do evil.

The bible condones slavery.


Exodus Chapter 21, verse 20:

If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property

Christianity does not condone slavery. In fact, many abolitionists were against slavery on the grounds that it was a very anti-Christian idea.

Next you might as well tell me that Christians aren't supposed to shave their beards, eat shrimp, or wipe their butt on Sunday.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
Omniverse
Posts: 973
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 10:35:53 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 10:27:40 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:13:07 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:02:58 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Yeah, it's stated pretty clearly in The New Testament that followers of Christ should expect persecution.

Look at the vitriol that atheists speak towards me, when the only thing I ever really say is "Believe The Truth!".

Yet no atheist has ever said of you what you routinely say about them, that they "deserve to be fed to the dogs."

At least have some decency , man.


Yet, I also say, "If not for the blood of Jesus, these people would not be allowed to live."

Your rants against atheists and atheism are far more vitriolic than anything that's ever been said to you around here.



I'm certain that some of these people would silence me if they had the chance.

I would say - judging from the reactions - no one wants to silence you. You have very little of worth to say and the reaction you mostly seem to elicit is boredom.


I've been told to go away several times now.

"Go away" vs "you deserve to be fed to the dogs"
Can you spot the difference?

One person even attempted to block my posts,

Only mods can delete posts.
This is forum 1 0 1.

which spiritually is the same thing as killing someone.

So dramatic.
You make me chuckle.

This is not a strange thing. Historically, people who had the audacity to speak the truth in a world that loved to believe in lies faced horrible torture and execution. People think we live in such enlightened times, but we are probably only a few generations away from that mentality becoming a reality again. It wasn't that long ago that they tortured and killed Christians in The Soviet Union.

It's not the first time you let us in on your overtly right wing politics.
Thanks.

As for the persecution of Christians in the former Soviet Union, which did happen, albeit not because of the reasons you're insinuating, I am willing to bet you know very little about it. Tough luck then that I know a thing or two about it.

Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are persecuted to this day in some parts of the world. Do you think that validates Mormonism and the JW movement?

Murderers and thieves are persecuted, does that validate what they do?

Exactly.
So being persecuted says nothing about the veracity of one's convictions.
That's my point.
Thanks.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 10:41:39 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 10:35:53 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:27:40 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:13:07 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:02:58 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Yeah, it's stated pretty clearly in The New Testament that followers of Christ should expect persecution.

Look at the vitriol that atheists speak towards me, when the only thing I ever really say is "Believe The Truth!".

Yet no atheist has ever said of you what you routinely say about them, that they "deserve to be fed to the dogs."

At least have some decency , man.


Yet, I also say, "If not for the blood of Jesus, these people would not be allowed to live."

Your rants against atheists and atheism are far more vitriolic than anything that's ever been said to you around here.


You think what I'm saying is arbitrary because you don't believe me when I tell you what the position means. Societies that forget God in favor of materialistic paganism universally have very violent and messy endings.



I'm certain that some of these people would silence me if they had the chance.

I would say - judging from the reactions - no one wants to silence you. You have very little of worth to say and the reaction you mostly seem to elicit is boredom.


I've been told to go away several times now.

"Go away" vs "you deserve to be fed to the dogs"
Can you spot the difference?



I am not condoning the feeding of atheists to dogs.

Mercy triumphs over judgement.

One person even attempted to block my posts,

Only mods can delete posts.
This is forum 1 0 1.


I'm not the one who attempted to block anyone's posts.

which spiritually is the same thing as killing someone.

So dramatic.
You make me chuckle.


If I am an internet life form, and I am banned for speaking.. The Earthly equivalent of this is execution.

This is not a strange thing. Historically, people who had the audacity to speak the truth in a world that loved to believe in lies faced horrible torture and execution. People think we live in such enlightened times, but we are probably only a few generations away from that mentality becoming a reality again. It wasn't that long ago that they tortured and killed Christians in The Soviet Union.

It's not the first time you let us in on your overtly right wing politics.
Thanks.

As for the persecution of Christians in the former Soviet Union, which did happen, albeit not because of the reasons you're insinuating, I am willing to bet you know very little about it. Tough luck then that I know a thing or two about it.

Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are persecuted to this day in some parts of the world. Do you think that validates Mormonism and the JW movement?

Murderers and thieves are persecuted, does that validate what they do?

Exactly.
So being persecuted says nothing about the veracity of one's convictions.
That's my point.
Thanks.

I never said it did.
That's my point.
Thanks.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
Omniverse
Posts: 973
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 10:57:07 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 10:41:39 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:35:53 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:27:40 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:13:07 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:02:58 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Yeah, it's stated pretty clearly in The New Testament that followers of Christ should expect persecution.

Look at the vitriol that atheists speak towards me, when the only thing I ever really say is "Believe The Truth!".

Yet no atheist has ever said of you what you routinely say about them, that they "deserve to be fed to the dogs."

At least have some decency , man.


Yet, I also say, "If not for the blood of Jesus, these people would not be allowed to live."

Your rants against atheists and atheism are far more vitriolic than anything that's ever been said to you around here.


You think what I'm saying is arbitrary because you don't believe me when I tell you what the position means. Societies that forget God in favor of materialistic paganism universally have very violent and messy endings.

Please.
All I'm saying here is that your vitriole against atheists is much worse than vice-versa.



I'm certain that some of these people would silence me if they had the chance.

I would say - judging from the reactions - no one wants to silence you. You have very little of worth to say and the reaction you mostly seem to elicit is boredom.


I've been told to go away several times now.

"Go away" vs "you deserve to be fed to the dogs"
Can you spot the difference?



I am not condoning the feeding of atheists to dogs.

Yet you have said to atheists that they deserve to be fed to the dogs.


Mercy triumphs over judgement.

One person even attempted to block my posts,

Only mods can delete posts.
This is forum 1 0 1.


I'm not the one who attempted to block anyone's posts.

No one but a mod can block your posts.
To me, freedom of speech is sacrosanct. Provided it's not an incitement to violence, I will defend your right to say it even if I think what you're saying is nonsense, as is the case 9.9 out 10 times.


which spiritually is the same thing as killing someone.

So dramatic.
You make me chuckle.


If I am an internet life form, and I am banned for speaking..

Again, no one can ban you except mods. Mods around here are some of the most permissive mods on the whole world wide web.
Unless you post something utterly abusive, you shan't get banned.

The Earthly equivalent of this is execution.

For goodness sake, have a sense of proportionality. will you?


This is not a strange thing. Historically, people who had the audacity to speak the truth in a world that loved to believe in lies faced horrible torture and execution. People think we live in such enlightened times, but we are probably only a few generations away from that mentality becoming a reality again. It wasn't that long ago that they tortured and killed Christians in The Soviet Union.

It's not the first time you let us in on your overtly right wing politics.
Thanks.

As for the persecution of Christians in the former Soviet Union, which did happen, albeit not because of the reasons you're insinuating, I am willing to bet you know very little about it. Tough luck then that I know a thing or two about it.

Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are persecuted to this day in some parts of the world. Do you think that validates Mormonism and the JW movement?

Murderers and thieves are persecuted, does that validate what they do?

Exactly.
So being persecuted says nothing about the veracity of one's convictions.
That's my point.
Thanks.

I never said it did.
That's my point.
Thanks.

So quit moaning as if it did.
Thanks.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 11:19:26 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 10:57:07 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:41:39 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:35:53 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:27:40 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:13:07 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:02:58 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Yeah, it's stated pretty clearly in The New Testament that followers of Christ should expect persecution.

Look at the vitriol that atheists speak towards me, when the only thing I ever really say is "Believe The Truth!".

Yet no atheist has ever said of you what you routinely say about them, that they "deserve to be fed to the dogs."

At least have some decency , man.


Yet, I also say, "If not for the blood of Jesus, these people would not be allowed to live."

Your rants against atheists and atheism are far more vitriolic than anything that's ever been said to you around here.


You think what I'm saying is arbitrary because you don't believe me when I tell you what the position means. Societies that forget God in favor of materialistic paganism universally have very violent and messy endings.

Please.
All I'm saying here is that your vitriole against atheists is much worse than vice-versa.

Yeah, until you realize that I'm against the position of not accepting reality, and for the position of accepting reality.

People who adopt the position of not accepting reality are pieces of sh!t, and that's the truth. They are enemies of humanity, and it should be obvious. They don't care about anyone but themselves. I could say a lot worse things. The fact of the matter is, I care enough about them personally to tell them the truth about what it is they believe in. If I truly hated these people, I would advocate their destruction. No, instead I promote the attitude of patience towards them with the hope that one day they may be reconciled to God. Truly, they deserve whatever hell they get for embracing delusion. "Vengeance is mine.", says the Lord. It isn't necessary that I act as an instrument of God's vengeance. They will suffer for putting their faith in idols. It is inevitable. This is a very liberal attitude considering how much harm they cause to the world around them. That said, this liberal attitude towards them is the Christian way. Who am I to judge another's servant? If they want to be slaves to the devil, they can live with their own bad decisions.

The point is, whatever vitriol I speak of atheism as a position is far less than it actually deserves, because it is THAT abominable. I doubt you would have a problem with me speaking vitriol about murder. In your current mind state, you would only laugh at that comparison. What you don't understand is that if you accept what I tell you I believe, and you accept my reasons for believing the way I do, you should understand that I am entirely justified and right in having the opinion that I do.




I'm certain that some of these people would silence me if they had the chance.

I would say - judging from the reactions - no one wants to silence you. You have very little of worth to say and the reaction you mostly seem to elicit is boredom.


I've been told to go away several times now.

"Go away" vs "you deserve to be fed to the dogs"
Can you spot the difference?



I am not condoning the feeding of atheists to dogs.

Yet you have said to atheists that they deserve to be fed to the dogs.


They sure do. One thing is for certain, there aren't any atheists in hell.

Obviously, if I didn't have compassion for these people, I wouldn't waste my time here. I'd rather be fishing.


Mercy triumphs over judgement.

One person even attempted to block my posts,

Only mods can delete posts.
This is forum 1 0 1.


I'm not the one who attempted to block anyone's posts.

No one but a mod can block your posts.
To me, freedom of speech is sacrosanct. Provided it's not an incitement to violence, I will defend your right to say it even if I think what you're saying is nonsense, as is the case 9.9 out 10 times.


What does this have to do with ANYTHING?

which spiritually is the same thing as killing someone.

So dramatic.
You make me chuckle.


If I am an internet life form, and I am banned for speaking..

Again, no one can ban you except mods. Mods around here are some of the most permissive mods on the whole world wide web.
Unless you post something utterly abusive, you shan't get banned.



I'm not concerned about getting banned.

The Earthly equivalent of this is execution.

For goodness sake, have a sense of proportionality. will you?


No, I think I've got it spot on. You are the one who isn't seeing the truth in what I said. If I was banned from DDO, I would be executed in the DDO universe. Make sense?


This is not a strange thing. Historically, people who had the audacity to speak the truth in a world that loved to believe in lies faced horrible torture and execution. People think we live in such enlightened times, but we are probably only a few generations away from that mentality becoming a reality again. It wasn't that long ago that they tortured and killed Christians in The Soviet Union.

It's not the first time you let us in on your overtly right wing politics.
Thanks.

As for the persecution of Christians in the former Soviet Union, which did happen, albeit not because of the reasons you're insinuating, I am willing to bet you know very little about it. Tough luck then that I know a thing or two about it.

Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are persecuted to this day in some parts of the world. Do you think that validates Mormonism and the JW movement?

Murderers and thieves are persecuted, does that validate what they do?

Exactly.
So being persecuted says nothing about the veracity of one's convictions.
That's my point.
Thanks.

I never said it did.
That's my point.
Thanks.

So quit moaning as if it did.
Thanks.

You can deny the fact that people have been killed for the sake of truth and love all you want, it doesn't change the fact that it happens.

~~~~~~

And I'm going now, because this is all way off topic.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
Chloe8
Posts: 2,580
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 11:22:55 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 10:35:53 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:28:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:17:06 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:09:24 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:44:10 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I know way more men who have been suffered domestic abuse than women.

Hell, my best friend's wife tried to convince him to kill himself for an entire year before he ended up running away. Poor guy doesn't have any teeth left either, because she kicked them all out. The sick thing is, this friend I'm talking about is a legitimate kung fu wizard. He'd probably be the biggest bad arse in Texas if Chuck Norris didn't live there. Hahaha. I've seen him beat four people up at the same time, and all of them were armed. One guy came at him with a can of pepper spray, and he turned around and wooped his arse backwards. I saw someone pull a gun out on him, and he made the guy eat the bullets in it. One time, the police were trying to handcuff him, and he ended up cuffing the officer to himself. He immediately realized what he did, and pulled the crazy card. Miraculously, it worked, and they just put him in a mental hospital. Really great guy, he has a "Hero of the City" award for rescuing a family that was trapped in their car due to fallen power lines. He is one of the most devout people you'd ever meet too, he takes the discipline very seriously. It's really a pleasure to work with him.

But nah, we can pretend the false narrative is true that women don't physically and emotionally abuse their men. I see it as being far more common than the other way around. It is culturally looked down on very heavily for a man to strike a woman, so there are a lot of men who simply take the abuse. Oh yeah, and police tend to laugh at men when they say their women beat them.

If I didn't see it happen all the time.. Just saying.

Also just saying, it is not Christian for a husband or wife to be abusive to each other. 1 Corinthians 13 on that one.



And that is my useless contribution to this topic.

Its true men suffer domestic abuse as well. No one should be forced to endure it. If a man told me he was suffering from domestic abuse I would be sympathetic and take his concerns just as seriously as if it was a woman telling me she was suffering from domestic abuse.

I welcome your contribution. It's good to highlight all cases of domestic abuse. My advice to you is to encourage your friend to leave that miserable bitch. I would even consider taking your concerns to the police or encourage him to do so.

Domestic abuse is simply completely unacceptable in all circumstances. Men should not be ashamed to come forward about their suffering and society should support them when they do so.

Christianity does not condone slavery, nor does it condone domestic abuse. Christians are to endure persecution and hardship with grace and longsuffering, but that does not mean that the teachings are sympathetic towards those who do evil.

The bible condones slavery.


Exodus Chapter 21, verse 20:

If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property

Christianity does not condone slavery. In fact, many abolitionists were against slavery on the grounds that it was a very anti-Christian idea.

Next you might as well tell me that Christians aren't supposed to shave their beards, eat shrimp, or wipe their butt on Sunday.

There are no verses supporting those things. How does Exodus 21:20 not support slavery? It could not be more clear. As long as the slave doesn't die its perfectly acceptable to bear them without reason. Not only does Christianity condone slavery, it condones unjustified heavy beating of slaves with rods.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 11:35:12 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 11:22:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:35:53 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:28:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:17:06 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 8/17/2016 10:09:24 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:44:10 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I know way more men who have been suffered domestic abuse than women.

Hell, my best friend's wife tried to convince him to kill himself for an entire year before he ended up running away. Poor guy doesn't have any teeth left either, because she kicked them all out. The sick thing is, this friend I'm talking about is a legitimate kung fu wizard. He'd probably be the biggest bad arse in Texas if Chuck Norris didn't live there. Hahaha. I've seen him beat four people up at the same time, and all of them were armed. One guy came at him with a can of pepper spray, and he turned around and wooped his arse backwards. I saw someone pull a gun out on him, and he made the guy eat the bullets in it. One time, the police were trying to handcuff him, and he ended up cuffing the officer to himself. He immediately realized what he did, and pulled the crazy card. Miraculously, it worked, and they just put him in a mental hospital. Really great guy, he has a "Hero of the City" award for rescuing a family that was trapped in their car due to fallen power lines. He is one of the most devout people you'd ever meet too, he takes the discipline very seriously. It's really a pleasure to work with him.

But nah, we can pretend the false narrative is true that women don't physically and emotionally abuse their men. I see it as being far more common than the other way around. It is culturally looked down on very heavily for a man to strike a woman, so there are a lot of men who simply take the abuse. Oh yeah, and police tend to laugh at men when they say their women beat them.

If I didn't see it happen all the time.. Just saying.

Also just saying, it is not Christian for a husband or wife to be abusive to each other. 1 Corinthians 13 on that one.



And that is my useless contribution to this topic.

Its true men suffer domestic abuse as well. No one should be forced to endure it. If a man told me he was suffering from domestic abuse I would be sympathetic and take his concerns just as seriously as if it was a woman telling me she was suffering from domestic abuse.

I welcome your contribution. It's good to highlight all cases of domestic abuse. My advice to you is to encourage your friend to leave that miserable bitch. I would even consider taking your concerns to the police or encourage him to do so.

Domestic abuse is simply completely unacceptable in all circumstances. Men should not be ashamed to come forward about their suffering and society should support them when they do so.

Christianity does not condone slavery, nor does it condone domestic abuse. Christians are to endure persecution and hardship with grace and longsuffering, but that does not mean that the teachings are sympathetic towards those who do evil.

The bible condones slavery.


Exodus Chapter 21, verse 20:

If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property

Christianity does not condone slavery. In fact, many abolitionists were against slavery on the grounds that it was a very anti-Christian idea.

Next you might as well tell me that Christians aren't supposed to shave their beards, eat shrimp, or wipe their butt on Sunday.

There are no verses supporting those things. How does Exodus 21:20 not support slavery? It could not be more clear. As long as the slave doesn't die its perfectly acceptable to bear them without reason. Not only does Christianity condone slavery, it condones unjustified heavy beating of slaves with rods.

There sure are verses that say these things.

You don't understand Christianity because you haven't really read the bible, you're reading what people think about the bible. You have to take the whole thing in context. Have you ever read the prophets? Have you ever read the New Testament? To be frank, I don't care what your answer is, because it's obvious that you need to do so again if you already have.

I'm not terribly interested in debating this. Christianity has nothing to do with making an idol of scripture before God.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
graceofgod
Posts: 5,037
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/18/2016 7:04:44 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 9:59:35 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:40:53 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:34:19 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
Chloe, I'm afraid it's worse than that. Under Christian canon law, marriage is for life, and the only lawful cause for divorce is adultery -- not misery, cruelty, disrespect or abuse -- and it's the husband who must initiate:

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. [Matthew 5:31-32]

Because to leave a husband for any cause is a sin:

10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband [1 Cor 7:10]

And even if she does leave, she must not seek a better life with someone decent:

11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. [1 Cor 7:11]

Because ultimately, she should strive to be the hard-working patriarchal chattel she was born to be...

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. [Eph 5:23]

...working hard for her maybe estranged, possibly lazy, brutal and conceited hubby while he's taking his ease and jaw-wagging among the elders, to whose company Mrs Submissive is not herself admitted:

10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies. 11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil. 12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life. 13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands. 14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar. 15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens. 16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard. 17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms. 18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night. 19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff. 20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy. 21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet. 22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple. 23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land. 24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant. [Proverbs 31:10-24]

And heavens forfend that she should even refuse Mr Princely sex:

4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. [1 Cor 7:4]

And that's utterly equitable, because, y'know... a wife's power to enforce her wishes on someone 20% bigger and 30% stronger, is well known.

Now, why you should have a problem with ancient Christians permanently enshrining patriarchy, disrespect, injustice, abuse, domestic serfdom, marital rape, and intergenerational economic and political exploitation in incontestable divine law, is beyond me.

yes how terrible the bible is, let not the woman put away her husband or the husband put away his wife...

what a terrible notion instead of instant marriages and even more instant divorce the bible says try at your marriage stick with it, don't just give up,
yes it seems good to just dump who ever when ever and find something you see as better but look at the broken families....

So if a woman gets married and her husband turns out to be a wife beater she should be forced be endure the abuse for the rest of her life?

yes, she should choose more carefully instead of jumping at the first man who looks at her, courtship should be longer, people should get to know each other..

then the children involved wouldn't all come from broken marriages..

in reality the woman could just as easily be abusive but the man should stay with her and in reality how many marriages today end because of physical abuse, i would argue most end because they fancy something new.... that's men and women...
graceofgod
Posts: 5,037
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/18/2016 7:09:14 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 9:50:44 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:40:53 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:34:19 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
Now, why you should have a problem with ancient Christians permanently enshrining patriarchy, disrespect, injustice, abuse, domestic serfdom, marital rape, and intergenerational economic and political exploitation in incontestable divine law, is beyond me.
yes how terrible the bible is, let not the woman put away her husband or the husband put away his wife...
what a terrible notion instead of instant marriages and even more instant divorce the bible says try at your marriage stick with it, don't just give up,
yes it seems good to just dump who ever when ever and find something you see as better but look at the broken families....

GoGsy, it's laudible to try and improve the quality and viability of marriage, but seriously -- is that really the smartest, fairest, most effective way to do it? Isn't it more likely to trap women in cruel, loveless, exploitative marriages than ensure marriages are an equitable partnership built on mutual respect?

Would you be interested in seeing the marital satisfaction stats in (say) Roman Catholic countries with canonical proscriptions against divorce, vs countries with no-fault divorce?

And if Christians know those arrangements are abusive and have abandoned such unfair law in droves, what does that say about the divine inspiration of these books, and the unwarranted cruelty that may be endemic in other canon law which affects not just Christians but all those whose lives Christians take it upon themselves to order?

what it says is God says you should take marriage seriously as a covenant that it is, not meet, sex ten minutes later and married the next day...

besides all this the bible says husbands love your wife as the Lord loves you, so I don't see where this supports physical abuse...

besides the case women are often now the instigators of physical abuse..

but the real answer lies in finding out what the person you marry is really like and I don't mean just in the bedroom...
desmac
Posts: 5,078
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/18/2016 7:10:35 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 10:02:58 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Yeah, it's stated pretty clearly in The New Testament that followers of Christ should expect persecution.

Look at the vitriol that atheists speak towards me, when the only thing I ever really say is "Believe The Truth!".

I'm certain that some of these people would silence me if they had the chance. This is not a strange thing. Historically, people who had the audacity to speak the truth in a world that loved to believe in lies faced horrible torture and execution. People think we live in such enlightened times, but we are probably only a few generations away from that mentality becoming a reality again. It wasn't that long ago that they tortured and killed Christians in The Soviet Union. There are places today where this is still going on.

Because whenever you say "Believe the Truth" we remember that you lie about your age.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/18/2016 7:15:56 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 9:44:10 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I know way more men who have been suffered domestic abuse than women.

Hell, my best friend's wife tried to convince him to kill himself for an entire year before he ended up running away. Poor guy doesn't have any teeth left either, because she kicked them all out. The sick thing is, this friend I'm talking about is a legitimate kung fu wizard. He'd probably be the biggest bad arse in Texas if Chuck Norris didn't live there. Hahaha. I've seen him beat four people up at the same time, and all of them were armed. One guy came at him with a can of pepper spray, and he turned around and wooped his arse backwards. I saw someone pull a gun out on him, and he made the guy eat the bullets in it. One time, the police were trying to handcuff him, and he ended up cuffing the officer to himself. He immediately realized what he did, and pulled the crazy card. Miraculously, it worked, and they just put him in a mental hospital. Really great guy, he has a "Hero of the City" award for rescuing a family that was trapped in their car due to fallen power lines. He is one of the most devout people you'd ever meet too, he takes the discipline very seriously. It's really a pleasure to work with him.

But nah, we can pretend the false narrative is true that women don't physically and emotionally abuse their men. I see it as being far more common than the other way around. It is culturally looked down on very heavily for a man to strike a woman, so there are a lot of men who simply take the abuse. Oh yeah, and police tend to laugh at men when they say their women beat them.

If I didn't see it happen all the time.. Just saying.

Also just saying, it is not Christian for a husband or wife to be abusive to each other. 1 Corinthians 13 on that one.



And that is my useless contribution to this topic.

This devout christian chum of yours beats people up four at a time, and forces them to eat bullets, not very "Turn the other cheek" is it?
Incidentally, why were the police trying to handcuff this guy?