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God wanted a flawed world.

Chloe8
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8/18/2016 10:29:28 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
God is allegedly omniscient. Therefore he knew that when he created Adam and Eve it was inevitable they would give into Satan's temptation and eat from the tree of life. He also knew the inevitable damage Satan would cause his creation yet he still chose to create him.

It's impossible for an omniscient creator to deny liability for outcomes that were certainties due to the direct result of his actions that being omnipotent he could easily avoided. This leads to the obvious conclusion that if Yawheh the Christian God exists he desired and planned a flawed world. This means that this God is evil if it exists. Such a god is unworthy of worship in any circumstances, even if it actually existed. Worshipping such a god would be comparable to supporting an evil regime such as Nazism, Stalinism or Maoism merely because you fear the evil leader.

Fortunately unlike Hitler, Stalin and Mao the evil boogeyman of Christianity, Yawheh does not actually exist. There is no need to fear imaginary creatures, no matter how scary their creator makes them.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Jerry947
Posts: 778
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8/18/2016 10:37:38 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/18/2016 10:29:28 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
God is allegedly omniscient. Therefore he knew that when he created Adam and Eve it was inevitable they would give into Satan's temptation and eat from the tree of life. He also knew the inevitable damage Satan would cause his creation yet he still chose to create him.

Yeah, it's called free will.

It's impossible for an omniscient creator to deny liability for outcomes that were certainties due to the direct result of his actions that being omnipotent he could easily avoided. This leads to the obvious conclusion that if Yawheh the Christian God exists he desired and planned a flawed world. This means that this God is evil if it exists. Such a god is unworthy of worship in any circumstances, even if it actually existed. Worshipping such a god would be comparable to supporting an evil regime such as Nazism, Stalinism or Maoism merely because you fear the evil leader.

You're forgetting the fact that God created the world perfect. It was humans who damaged it.

Fortunately unlike Hitler, Stalin and Mao the evil boogeyman of Christianity, Yawheh does not actually exist. There is no need to fear imaginary creatures, no matter how scary their creator makes them.

What evidence do you have that God does not exist. You made the claim, support it.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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8/18/2016 10:46:41 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/18/2016 10:37:38 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:29:28 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
God is allegedly omniscient. Therefore he knew that when he created Adam and Eve it was inevitable they would give into Satan's temptation and eat from the tree of life. He also knew the inevitable damage Satan would cause his creation yet he still chose to create him.

Yeah, it's called free will.

The omniscient creator chose to give its creations the characteristics that would lead to a flawed world. Being omnipotent it could have created things that would not act in a way that would lead to a flawed world yet this alleged creator wanted a flawed world so ensured it created things that would lead to one.

It's impossible for an omniscient creator to deny liability for outcomes that were certainties due to the direct result of his actions that being omnipotent he could easily avoided. This leads to the obvious conclusion that if Yawheh the Christian God exists he desired and planned a flawed world. This means that this God is evil if it exists. Such a god is unworthy of worship in any circumstances, even if it actually existed. Worshipping such a god would be comparable to supporting an evil regime such as Nazism, Stalinism or Maoism merely because you fear the evil leader.

You're forgetting the fact that God created the world perfect. It was humans who damaged it.

Your forgetting the bible teaches Yawheh created Satan, Adam and Eve and is allegedly omniscient and omnipotent so would have known about the implications of creating every one of his creations so obviously intended for each creation to be how he created it. His omnipotent powers would have allowed him to create things differently if he didn't want a flawed world.

Fortunately unlike Hitler, Stalin and Mao the evil boogeyman of Christianity, Yawheh does not actually exist. There is no need to fear imaginary creatures, no matter how scary their creator makes them.

What evidence do you have that God does not exist. You made the claim, support it.

Plants did not exist before the sun. Therefore the genesis creation account is false and Christianity is a fraud. Ancient bronze age myth debunked. Simple stuff.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Jerry947
Posts: 778
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8/18/2016 10:50:41 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/18/2016 10:46:41 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:37:38 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:29:28 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
God is allegedly omniscient. Therefore he knew that when he created Adam and Eve it was inevitable they would give into Satan's temptation and eat from the tree of life. He also knew the inevitable damage Satan would cause his creation yet he still chose to create him.

Yeah, it's called free will.

The omniscient creator chose to give its creations the characteristics that would lead to a flawed world. Being omnipotent it could have created things that would not act in a way that would lead to a flawed world yet this alleged creator wanted a flawed world so ensured it created things that would lead to one.

The only way God could prevent a flawed world would be by creating people without free will.

It's impossible for an omniscient creator to deny liability for outcomes that were certainties due to the direct result of his actions that being omnipotent he could easily avoided. This leads to the obvious conclusion that if Yawheh the Christian God exists he desired and planned a flawed world. This means that this God is evil if it exists. Such a god is unworthy of worship in any circumstances, even if it actually existed. Worshipping such a god would be comparable to supporting an evil regime such as Nazism, Stalinism or Maoism merely because you fear the evil leader.

You're forgetting the fact that God created the world perfect. It was humans who damaged it.

Your forgetting the bible teaches Yawheh created Satan, Adam and Eve and is allegedly omniscient and omnipotent so would have known about the implications of creating every one of his creations so obviously intended for each creation to be how he created it. His omnipotent powers would have allowed him to create things differently if he didn't want a flawed world.

Creating beings does not make you responsible for their actions. Parents are not responsible when their thirty year old children do wrong things. Blame the person in the wrong instead of the creator.

Fortunately unlike Hitler, Stalin and Mao the evil boogeyman of Christianity, Yawheh does not actually exist. There is no need to fear imaginary creatures, no matter how scary their creator makes them.

What evidence do you have that God does not exist. You made the claim, support it.

Plants did not exist before the sun. Therefore the genesis creation account is false and Christianity is a fraud. Ancient bronze age myth debunked. Simple stuff.

I didn't ask you to give a lame attempt in disproving Genesis. I asked you to support your claim about God's nonexistence.
janesix
Posts: 3,466
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8/18/2016 10:54:36 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/18/2016 10:37:38 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:29:28 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
God is allegedly omniscient. Therefore he knew that when he created Adam and Eve it was inevitable they would give into Satan's temptation and eat from the tree of life. He also knew the inevitable damage Satan would cause his creation yet he still chose to create him.

Yeah, it's called free will.

It's impossible for an omniscient creator to deny liability for outcomes that were certainties due to the direct result of his actions that being omnipotent he could easily avoided. This leads to the obvious conclusion that if Yawheh the Christian God exists he desired and planned a flawed world. This means that this God is evil if it exists. Such a god is unworthy of worship in any circumstances, even if it actually existed. Worshipping such a god would be comparable to supporting an evil regime such as Nazism, Stalinism or Maoism merely because you fear the evil leader.

You're forgetting the fact that God created the world perfect. It was humans who damaged it.
Who created spider wasps, flesh eating bacteria and cancer?

Fortunately unlike Hitler, Stalin and Mao the evil boogeyman of Christianity, Yawheh does not actually exist. There is no need to fear imaginary creatures, no matter how scary their creator makes them.

What evidence do you have that God does not exist. You made the claim, support it.
Jerry947
Posts: 778
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8/18/2016 10:56:17 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/18/2016 10:54:36 PM, janesix wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:37:38 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:29:28 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
God is allegedly omniscient. Therefore he knew that when he created Adam and Eve it was inevitable they would give into Satan's temptation and eat from the tree of life. He also knew the inevitable damage Satan would cause his creation yet he still chose to create him.

Yeah, it's called free will.

It's impossible for an omniscient creator to deny liability for outcomes that were certainties due to the direct result of his actions that being omnipotent he could easily avoided. This leads to the obvious conclusion that if Yawheh the Christian God exists he desired and planned a flawed world. This means that this God is evil if it exists. Such a god is unworthy of worship in any circumstances, even if it actually existed. Worshipping such a god would be comparable to supporting an evil regime such as Nazism, Stalinism or Maoism merely because you fear the evil leader.

You're forgetting the fact that God created the world perfect. It was humans who damaged it.
Who created spider wasps, flesh eating bacteria and cancer?

God created the first one, but probably not the other two.

Who do you think created them?

Fortunately unlike Hitler, Stalin and Mao the evil boogeyman of Christianity, Yawheh does not actually exist. There is no need to fear imaginary creatures, no matter how scary their creator makes them.

What evidence do you have that God does not exist. You made the claim, support it.
janesix
Posts: 3,466
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8/18/2016 11:03:34 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/18/2016 10:56:17 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:54:36 PM, janesix wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:37:38 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:29:28 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
God is allegedly omniscient. Therefore he knew that when he created Adam and Eve it was inevitable they would give into Satan's temptation and eat from the tree of life. He also knew the inevitable damage Satan would cause his creation yet he still chose to create him.

Yeah, it's called free will.

It's impossible for an omniscient creator to deny liability for outcomes that were certainties due to the direct result of his actions that being omnipotent he could easily avoided. This leads to the obvious conclusion that if Yawheh the Christian God exists he desired and planned a flawed world. This means that this God is evil if it exists. Such a god is unworthy of worship in any circumstances, even if it actually existed. Worshipping such a god would be comparable to supporting an evil regime such as Nazism, Stalinism or Maoism merely because you fear the evil leader.

You're forgetting the fact that God created the world perfect. It was humans who damaged it.
Who created spider wasps, flesh eating bacteria and cancer?

God created the first one, but probably not the other two.

Who do you think created them?

God. What i dont understand is why.

Fortunately unlike Hitler, Stalin and Mao the evil boogeyman of Christianity, Yawheh does not actually exist. There is no need to fear imaginary creatures, no matter how scary their creator makes them.

What evidence do you have that God does not exist. You made the claim, support it.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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8/19/2016 12:05:57 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/18/2016 10:50:41 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:46:41 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:37:38 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:29:28 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
God is allegedly omniscient. Therefore he knew that when he created Adam and Eve it was inevitable they would give into Satan's temptation and eat from the tree of life. He also knew the inevitable damage Satan would cause his creation yet he still chose to create him.

Yeah, it's called free will.

The omniscient creator chose to give its creations the characteristics that would lead to a flawed world. Being omnipotent it could have created things that would not act in a way that would lead to a flawed world yet this alleged creator wanted a flawed world so ensured it created things that would lead to one.

The only way God could prevent a flawed world would be by creating people without free will.

False. An omnipotent, omniscient creator could create people who's free will would not lead them to eating from the tree of life.

With Satan we have even stronger evidence that an omniscient, omnipotent creator can create angels that don't revel against him or seek to influence his other creations in a detrimental way as many other angels allegedly exist yet none other than Satan have rebelled against God.

It's impossible for an omniscient creator to deny liability for outcomes that were certainties due to the direct result of his actions that being omnipotent he could easily avoided. This leads to the obvious conclusion that if Yawheh the Christian God exists he desired and planned a flawed world. This means that this God is evil if it exists. Such a god is unworthy of worship in any circumstances, even if it actually existed. Worshipping such a god would be comparable to supporting an evil regime such as Nazism, Stalinism or Maoism merely because you fear the evil leader.

You're forgetting the fact that God created the world perfect. It was humans who damaged it.

Your forgetting the bible teaches Yawheh created Satan, Adam and Eve and is allegedly omniscient and omnipotent so would have known about the implications of creating every one of his creations so obviously intended for each creation to be how he created it. His omnipotent powers would have allowed him to create things differently if he didn't want a flawed world.

Creating beings does not make you responsible for their actions. Parents are not responsible when their thirty year old children do wrong things. Blame the person in the wrong instead of the creator.

You forget to consider the parents are not omniscient so do not know the future path of any children they have. If I knew I was pregnant with a baby that would go on to commit genocide on a huge scale obviously I would get an abortion but such information is not possible to know. Humans cannot know what the future holds for potential offspring when they conceive a child. Yawheh meanwhile knew exactly the consequences of Satan's creation yet still made the conscious choice to create him and all the evil his existence would allow to happen.

Let's look at it differently. You receive intelligence that a terrorist has developed nuclear technology in his backyard. He is about to bomb new York. He lives next door, you are armed with a gun and have time to stop him before he presses the button. I know how I would react in such a situation and I'd like to think you would react in a similar manner. Allowing the terrorist the free will to launch a nuclear attack on new york is never justified. Such an evil act must always be prevented.

Fortunately unlike Hitler, Stalin and Mao the evil boogeyman of Christianity, Yawheh does not actually exist. There is no need to fear imaginary creatures, no matter how scary their creator makes them.

What evidence do you have that God does not exist. You made the claim, support it.

Plants did not exist before the sun. Therefore the genesis creation account is false and Christianity is a fraud. Ancient bronze age myth debunked. Simple stuff.

I didn't ask you to give a lame attempt in disproving Genesis. I asked you to support your claim about God's nonexistence.

The best proof of Yawheh's non existence is the bible. Read it in its entirety and it becomes obvious Yawheh is not real. He is the creation of ancient Israelites ignorant of cosmology, astrology and science.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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8/19/2016 12:17:22 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/18/2016 10:29:28 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
God is allegedly omniscient. Therefore he knew that when he created Adam and Eve it was inevitable they would give into Satan's temptation and eat from the tree of life. He also knew the inevitable damage Satan would cause his creation yet he still chose to create him.

It's impossible for an omniscient creator to deny liability for outcomes that were certainties due to the direct result of his actions that being omnipotent he could easily avoided. This leads to the obvious conclusion that if Yawheh the Christian God exists he desired and planned a flawed world. This means that this God is evil if it exists. Such a god is unworthy of worship in any circumstances, even if it actually existed. Worshipping such a god would be comparable to supporting an evil regime such as Nazism, Stalinism or Maoism merely because you fear the evil leader.

So what? Its just your opinion. Congratulations on joining the other 6.3 billion of us.

Fortunately unlike Hitler, Stalin and Mao the evil boogeyman of Christianity, Yawheh does not actually exist. There is no need to fear imaginary creatures, no matter how scary their creator makes them.
That's your reasoning as to why the God of the bible doesn't exist?
Jerry947
Posts: 778
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8/19/2016 12:24:13 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 12:05:57 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:50:41 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:46:41 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:37:38 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:29:28 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
God is allegedly omniscient. Therefore he knew that when he created Adam and Eve it was inevitable they would give into Satan's temptation and eat from the tree of life. He also knew the inevitable damage Satan would cause his creation yet he still chose to create him.

Yeah, it's called free will.

The omniscient creator chose to give its creations the characteristics that would lead to a flawed world. Being omnipotent it could have created things that would not act in a way that would lead to a flawed world yet this alleged creator wanted a flawed world so ensured it created things that would lead to one.

The only way God could prevent a flawed world would be by creating people without free will.

False. An omnipotent, omniscient creator could create people who's free will would not lead them to eating from the tree of life.

You can't force people with free will to freely do something. Your logic is flawed.

With Satan we have even stronger evidence that an omniscient, omnipotent creator can create angels that don't revel against him or seek to influence his other creations in a detrimental way as many other angels allegedly exist yet none other than Satan have rebelled against God.

It's impossible for an omniscient creator to deny liability for outcomes that were certainties due to the direct result of his actions that being omnipotent he could easily avoided. This leads to the obvious conclusion that if Yawheh the Christian God exists he desired and planned a flawed world. This means that this God is evil if it exists. Such a god is unworthy of worship in any circumstances, even if it actually existed. Worshipping such a god would be comparable to supporting an evil regime such as Nazism, Stalinism or Maoism merely because you fear the evil leader.

You're forgetting the fact that God created the world perfect. It was humans who damaged it.

Your forgetting the bible teaches Yawheh created Satan, Adam and Eve and is allegedly omniscient and omnipotent so would have known about the implications of creating every one of his creations so obviously intended for each creation to be how he created it. His omnipotent powers would have allowed him to create things differently if he didn't want a flawed world.

Creating beings does not make you responsible for their actions. Parents are not responsible when their thirty year old children do wrong things. Blame the person in the wrong instead of the creator.

You forget to consider the parents are not omniscient so do not know the future path of any children they have. If I knew I was pregnant with a baby that would go on to commit genocide on a huge scale obviously I would get an abortion but such information is not possible to know.

The problem is that all humans do evil and God would have had to wipe all of us out. Instead, he choose a different route. And thank God he did...

Humans cannot know what the future holds for potential offspring when they conceive a child. Yawheh meanwhile knew exactly the consequences of Satan's creation yet still made the conscious choice to create him and all the evil his existence would allow to happen.

Let's look at it differently. You receive intelligence that a terrorist has developed nuclear technology in his backyard. He is about to bomb new York. He lives next door, you are armed with a gun and have time to stop him before he presses the button. I know how I would react in such a situation and I'd like to think you would react in a similar manner. Allowing the terrorist the free will to launch a nuclear attack on new york is never justified. Such an evil act must always be prevented.

Yes, and who would have created the person that stopped the terrorist?

Fortunately unlike Hitler, Stalin and Mao the evil boogeyman of Christianity, Yawheh does not actually exist. There is no need to fear imaginary creatures, no matter how scary their creator makes them.

What evidence do you have that God does not exist. You made the claim, support it.

Plants did not exist before the sun. Therefore the genesis creation account is false and Christianity is a fraud. Ancient bronze age myth debunked. Simple stuff.

I didn't ask you to give a lame attempt in disproving Genesis. I asked you to support your claim about God's nonexistence.

The best proof of Yawheh's non existence is the bible. Read it in its entirety and it becomes obvious Yawheh is not real. He is the creation of ancient Israelites ignorant of cosmology, astrology and science.

You haven't read the Bible. But it is clear you have no evidence...
Omniverse
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8/19/2016 12:26:27 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/18/2016 10:50:41 PM, Jerry947 wrote:

Creating beings does not make you responsible for their actions. Parents are not responsible when their thirty year old children do wrong things. Blame the person in the wrong instead of the creator.

Exactly.
There is no reason for mankind to be punished for something Adam and Eve allegedly did.
DanneJeRusse
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8/19/2016 1:26:29 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/18/2016 10:37:38 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:29:28 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
God is allegedly omniscient. Therefore he knew that when he created Adam and Eve it was inevitable they would give into Satan's temptation and eat from the tree of life. He also knew the inevitable damage Satan would cause his creation yet he still chose to create him.

Yeah, it's called free will.

It's impossible for an omniscient creator to deny liability for outcomes that were certainties due to the direct result of his actions that being omnipotent he could easily avoided. This leads to the obvious conclusion that if Yawheh the Christian God exists he desired and planned a flawed world. This means that this God is evil if it exists. Such a god is unworthy of worship in any circumstances, even if it actually existed. Worshipping such a god would be comparable to supporting an evil regime such as Nazism, Stalinism or Maoism merely because you fear the evil leader.

You're forgetting the fact that God created the world perfect. It was humans who damaged it.

Humans, those are also things God created. Perhaps, God shouldn't have given humans brains and the capacity to use them so they know good from evil and the world around them, maybe Gods world would be still be perfect.

Either way, they are failures on Gods part, no one to blame but himself.

Fortunately unlike Hitler, Stalin and Mao the evil boogeyman of Christianity, Yawheh does not actually exist. There is no need to fear imaginary creatures, no matter how scary their creator makes them.

What evidence do you have that God does not exist. You made the claim, support it.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
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8/19/2016 2:03:58 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/18/2016 10:50:41 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:46:41 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:37:38 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:29:28 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
God is allegedly omniscient. Therefore he knew that when he created Adam and Eve it was inevitable they would give into Satan's temptation and eat from the tree of life. He also knew the inevitable damage Satan would cause his creation yet he still chose to create him.

Yeah, it's called free will.

The omniscient creator chose to give its creations the characteristics that would lead to a flawed world. Being omnipotent it could have created things that would not act in a way that would lead to a flawed world yet this alleged creator wanted a flawed world so ensured it created things that would lead to one.

The only way God could prevent a flawed world would be by creating people without free will.

Do angels have free will?

Your forgetting the bible teaches Yawheh created Satan, Adam and Eve and is allegedly omniscient and omnipotent so would have known about the implications of creating every one of his creations so obviously intended for each creation to be how he created it. His omnipotent powers would have allowed him to create things differently if he didn't want a flawed world.

Creating beings does not make you responsible for their actions. Parents are not responsible when their thirty year old children do wrong things. Blame the person in the wrong instead of the creator.

How old were Adam and Eve when they lost paradise? How can you blame them for doing wrong when before eating the apple they had no concept of right or wrong? Also how does one have free will when they don't have a scope or morality? Do animals have free will?

Plants did not exist before the sun. Therefore the genesis creation account is false and Christianity is a fraud. Ancient bronze age myth debunked. Simple stuff.

I didn't ask you to give a lame attempt in disproving Genesis. I asked you to support your claim about God's nonexistence.

Tell me, Christians disagree on this, was Genesis an actual historical event?
Jerry947
Posts: 778
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8/19/2016 2:33:19 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 2:03:58 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:50:41 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:46:41 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:37:38 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:29:28 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
God is allegedly omniscient. Therefore he knew that when he created Adam and Eve it was inevitable they would give into Satan's temptation and eat from the tree of life. He also knew the inevitable damage Satan would cause his creation yet he still chose to create him.

Yeah, it's called free will.

The omniscient creator chose to give its creations the characteristics that would lead to a flawed world. Being omnipotent it could have created things that would not act in a way that would lead to a flawed world yet this alleged creator wanted a flawed world so ensured it created things that would lead to one.

The only way God could prevent a flawed world would be by creating people without free will.

Do angels have free will?

No clue.

Your forgetting the bible teaches Yawheh created Satan, Adam and Eve and is allegedly omniscient and omnipotent so would have known about the implications of creating every one of his creations so obviously intended for each creation to be how he created it. His omnipotent powers would have allowed him to create things differently if he didn't want a flawed world.

Creating beings does not make you responsible for their actions. Parents are not responsible when their thirty year old children do wrong things. Blame the person in the wrong instead of the creator.

How old were Adam and Eve when they lost paradise? How can you blame them for doing wrong when before eating the apple they had no concept of right or wrong? Also how does one have free will when they don't have a scope or morality? Do animals have free will?

They were adults and they did have a concept of right and wrong.

Plants did not exist before the sun. Therefore the genesis creation account is false and Christianity is a fraud. Ancient bronze age myth debunked. Simple stuff.

I didn't ask you to give a lame attempt in disproving Genesis. I asked you to support your claim about God's nonexistence.

Tell me, Christians disagree on this, was Genesis an actual historical event?

The debate is on the first eleven chapters. But yes, I think they are historical.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
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8/19/2016 2:37:25 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 2:33:19 AM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 2:03:58 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:50:41 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:46:41 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:37:38 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:29:28 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
God is allegedly omniscient. Therefore he knew that when he created Adam and Eve it was inevitable they would give into Satan's temptation and eat from the tree of life. He also knew the inevitable damage Satan would cause his creation yet he still chose to create him.

Yeah, it's called free will.

The omniscient creator chose to give its creations the characteristics that would lead to a flawed world. Being omnipotent it could have created things that would not act in a way that would lead to a flawed world yet this alleged creator wanted a flawed world so ensured it created things that would lead to one.

The only way God could prevent a flawed world would be by creating people without free will.

Do angels have free will?

No clue.

I would hope you would know. Why wouldn't the Bible cover such an important feature of it own mythology? How do we know we have free will and they do or don't?

Your forgetting the bible teaches Yawheh created Satan, Adam and Eve and is allegedly omniscient and omnipotent so would have known about the implications of creating every one of his creations so obviously intended for each creation to be how he created it. His omnipotent powers would have allowed him to create things differently if he didn't want a flawed world.

Creating beings does not make you responsible for their actions. Parents are not responsible when their thirty year old children do wrong things. Blame the person in the wrong instead of the creator.

How old were Adam and Eve when they lost paradise? How can you blame them for doing wrong when before eating the apple they had no concept of right or wrong? Also how does one have free will when they don't have a scope or morality? Do animals have free will?

They were adults and they did have a concept of right and wrong.

How could they possibly have a concept of right and wrong when it was the apple that contained said concept?

Tell me, Christians disagree on this, was Genesis an actual historical event?

The debate is on the first eleven chapters. But yes, I think they are historical.

So you believe the Garden was a real place and the Great Flood actually happened?
Jerry947
Posts: 778
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8/19/2016 2:45:45 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 2:37:25 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 2:33:19 AM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 2:03:58 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:50:41 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:46:41 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:37:38 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:29:28 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
God is allegedly omniscient. Therefore he knew that when he created Adam and Eve it was inevitable they would give into Satan's temptation and eat from the tree of life. He also knew the inevitable damage Satan would cause his creation yet he still chose to create him.

Yeah, it's called free will.

The omniscient creator chose to give its creations the characteristics that would lead to a flawed world. Being omnipotent it could have created things that would not act in a way that would lead to a flawed world yet this alleged creator wanted a flawed world so ensured it created things that would lead to one.

The only way God could prevent a flawed world would be by creating people without free will.

Do angels have free will?

No clue.

I would hope you would know. Why wouldn't the Bible cover such an important feature of it own mythology? How do we know we have free will and they do or don't?

The Bible doesn't say much about it. But it does talk about God being a just/fair being and that is good enough for me.

We know we have free will since we can reject God.

Your forgetting the bible teaches Yawheh created Satan, Adam and Eve and is allegedly omniscient and omnipotent so would have known about the implications of creating every one of his creations so obviously intended for each creation to be how he created it. His omnipotent powers would have allowed him to create things differently if he didn't want a flawed world.

Creating beings does not make you responsible for their actions. Parents are not responsible when their thirty year old children do wrong things. Blame the person in the wrong instead of the creator.

How old were Adam and Eve when they lost paradise? How can you blame them for doing wrong when before eating the apple they had no concept of right or wrong? Also how does one have free will when they don't have a scope or morality? Do animals have free will?

They were adults and they did have a concept of right and wrong.

How could they possibly have a concept of right and wrong when it was the apple that contained said concept?

The fruit (never says apple) didn't contain evil. Their decision to disobey God was an evil action which in effect brought evil into the world.

Tell me, Christians disagree on this, was Genesis an actual historical event?

The debate is on the first eleven chapters. But yes, I think they are historical.

So you believe the Garden was a real place and the Great Flood actually happened?

Yep.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
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8/19/2016 2:53:55 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 2:45:45 AM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 2:37:25 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 2:33:19 AM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 2:03:58 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:50:41 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:46:41 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:37:38 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:29:28 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
God is allegedly omniscient. Therefore he knew that when he created Adam and Eve it was inevitable they would give into Satan's temptation and eat from the tree of life. He also knew the inevitable damage Satan would cause his creation yet he still chose to create him.

Yeah, it's called free will.

The omniscient creator chose to give its creations the characteristics that would lead to a flawed world. Being omnipotent it could have created things that would not act in a way that would lead to a flawed world yet this alleged creator wanted a flawed world so ensured it created things that would lead to one.

The only way God could prevent a flawed world would be by creating people without free will.

Do angels have free will?

No clue.

I would hope you would know. Why wouldn't the Bible cover such an important feature of it own mythology? How do we know we have free will and they do or don't?

The Bible doesn't say much about it. But it does talk about God being a just/fair being and that is good enough for me.

We know we have free will since we can reject God.

So does that mean Satan has free will?

Your forgetting the bible teaches Yawheh created Satan, Adam and Eve and is allegedly omniscient and omnipotent so would have known about the implications of creating every one of his creations so obviously intended for each creation to be how he created it. His omnipotent powers would have allowed him to create things differently if he didn't want a flawed world.

Creating beings does not make you responsible for their actions. Parents are not responsible when their thirty year old children do wrong things. Blame the person in the wrong instead of the creator.

How old were Adam and Eve when they lost paradise? How can you blame them for doing wrong when before eating the apple they had no concept of right or wrong? Also how does one have free will when they don't have a scope or morality? Do animals have free will?

They were adults and they did have a concept of right and wrong.

How could they possibly have a concept of right and wrong when it was the apple that contained said concept?

The fruit (never says apple) didn't contain evil. Their decision to disobey God was an evil action which in effect brought evil into the world.

The Bible clearly states the fruit contained knowledge of Good and Evil.

"And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil." Gen 2:9

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Gen 2:17

Adam and Eve could not have committed evil because they had not tasted the fruit and could not have known what they were doing.
Jerry947
Posts: 778
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8/19/2016 3:01:09 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 2:53:55 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 2:45:45 AM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 2:37:25 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 2:33:19 AM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 2:03:58 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:50:41 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:46:41 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:37:38 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/18/2016 10:29:28 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
God is allegedly omniscient. Therefore he knew that when he created Adam and Eve it was inevitable they would give into Satan's temptation and eat from the tree of life. He also knew the inevitable damage Satan would cause his creation yet he still chose to create him.

Yeah, it's called free will.

The omniscient creator chose to give its creations the characteristics that would lead to a flawed world. Being omnipotent it could have created things that would not act in a way that would lead to a flawed world yet this alleged creator wanted a flawed world so ensured it created things that would lead to one.

The only way God could prevent a flawed world would be by creating people without free will.

Do angels have free will?

No clue.

I would hope you would know. Why wouldn't the Bible cover such an important feature of it own mythology? How do we know we have free will and they do or don't?

The Bible doesn't say much about it. But it does talk about God being a just/fair being and that is good enough for me.

We know we have free will since we can reject God.

So does that mean Satan has free will?

Yes, I think it is obvious that angels/demons have free will. Nothing goes against that idea in the Bible. That is the short explanation.

Your forgetting the bible teaches Yawheh created Satan, Adam and Eve and is allegedly omniscient and omnipotent so would have known about the implications of creating every one of his creations so obviously intended for each creation to be how he created it. His omnipotent powers would have allowed him to create things differently if he didn't want a flawed world.

Creating beings does not make you responsible for their actions. Parents are not responsible when their thirty year old children do wrong things. Blame the person in the wrong instead of the creator.

How old were Adam and Eve when they lost paradise? How can you blame them for doing wrong when before eating the apple they had no concept of right or wrong? Also how does one have free will when they don't have a scope or morality? Do animals have free will?

They were adults and they did have a concept of right and wrong.

How could they possibly have a concept of right and wrong when it was the apple that contained said concept?

The fruit (never says apple) didn't contain evil. Their decision to disobey God was an evil action which in effect brought evil into the world.

The Bible clearly states the fruit contained knowledge of Good and Evil.

No it doesn't. It says that when they eat the fruit, they will then have knowledge of good and evil.

The serpent says that "God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:5).

"And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil." Gen 2:9

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Gen 2:17

Yes, but notice how the fruit doesn't kill them? It was their sin that send them to their deaths.

Adam and Eve could not have committed evil because they had not tasted the fruit and could not have known what they were doing.

What? They knew what was right and wrong since God told them it was wrong to eat of that one specific tree.

They just didn't know evil in the sense that they had never done anything evil prior to that moment.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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8/19/2016 3:06:17 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/18/2016 10:29:28 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
God is allegedly omniscient. Therefore he knew that when he created Adam and Eve it was inevitable they would give into Satan's temptation and eat from the tree of life. He also knew the inevitable damage Satan would cause his creation yet he still chose to create him.

It's impossible for an omniscient creator to deny liability for outcomes that were certainties due to the direct result of his actions that being omnipotent he could easily avoided. This leads to the obvious conclusion that if Yawheh the Christian God exists he desired and planned a flawed world. This means that this God is evil if it exists. Such a god is unworthy of worship in any circumstances, even if it actually existed. Worshipping such a god would be comparable to supporting an evil regime such as Nazism, Stalinism or Maoism merely because you fear the evil leader.

Fortunately unlike Hitler, Stalin and Mao the evil boogeyman of Christianity, Yawheh does not actually exist. There is no need to fear imaginary creatures, no matter how scary their creator makes them.

Yes. God wants a flawed world... but the question is what is flawed? Here is one thing... if there is a puppet master, it is a master. If there is a creator, it knows what it created. What we see here is flaws. The flaws we see are the things we don't like... however, that is subjective. Then, there are other questions... what if hell is a part of this world? What if a rapist dies, then manifests back into a incestial family that hangs and tortures this person from its birth. To you it looks bad, to God it's justice. This is why i do not look at anyone else in this world. I have no idea what people are, yet i can observe some like to get pissed on or drink it thinking it gives them youth or some power. Whatever, they will die in their own arms. I am not purely a pessimist, for i believe there is much more good then flaws in peoples heart. Yet, i can't deny that i would still come to a world like this to live "my" life... God is you and your observations of the world. God is goodness, and can be like a test... for good has all the right to destroy evil. Evil's manifestation, its destiny is to get destroyed. It's like picking a character in a movie... the Joker is always getting tormented, however it is also living an alluring life of fear and consequence. As an outside observer, it can all make sense. Living within the creation, you just follow the paths you see. Best person or organization to worship is you... every spiritual text teaches this, but the corrupt try to make you forget... for being worshiped by others brings different implications; still flawed, but not too bad to live in a world of pleasures and dread being worshiped by the ones that are easily swayed into your world. It is actually quite fun. I look at me as a god that has a kingdom, and so far, i have a pretty powerful kingdom for i have many peasants on my side.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
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8/19/2016 3:08:53 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 3:01:09 AM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 2:53:55 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 2:45:45 AM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 2:37:25 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 2:33:19 AM, Jerry947 wrote:


Do angels have free will?

No clue.

I would hope you would know. Why wouldn't the Bible cover such an important feature of it own mythology? How do we know we have free will and they do or don't?

The Bible doesn't say much about it. But it does talk about God being a just/fair being and that is good enough for me.

We know we have free will since we can reject God.

So does that mean Satan has free will?

Yes, I think it is obvious that angels/demons have free will. Nothing goes against that idea in the Bible. That is the short explanation.

You go from "no clue" to "it is obvious" - really thinking on your feet eh?

They were adults and they did have a concept of right and wrong.

How could they possibly have a concept of right and wrong when it was the apple that contained said concept?

The fruit (never says apple) didn't contain evil. Their decision to disobey God was an evil action which in effect brought evil into the world.

The Bible clearly states the fruit contained knowledge of Good and Evil.

No it doesn't. It says that when they eat the fruit, they will then have knowledge of good and evil.

Yes it does. And now you admit before eating the frut Adam and Eve could not have the knowledge of Good and Evil, thus their actions couldn't have been evil.

The serpent says that "God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:5).

Good and Evil, yes I've already established that.

"And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil." Gen 2:9

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Gen 2:17

Yes, but notice how the fruit doesn't kill them? It was their sin that send them to their deaths.

So eating the fruit wasn't a sin in of itself? But their other sin brought them death? Like what?

Adam and Eve could not have committed evil because they had not tasted the fruit and could not have known what they were doing.

What? They knew what was right and wrong since God told them it was wrong to eat of that one specific tree.

He never said why, he just said don't do it. There's no moral imperative explained behind disobeying him or not especially given the naive/ignorant mindset of Adam and Eve.

They just didn't know evil in the sense that they had never done anything evil prior to that moment.

They couldn't have knowingly done anything good or evil until biting the fruit. Did God create the serpent to trick Eve?
Jerry947
Posts: 778
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8/19/2016 12:36:23 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 3:08:53 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 3:01:09 AM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 2:53:55 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 2:45:45 AM, Jerry947 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 2:37:25 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 2:33:19 AM, Jerry947 wrote:


Do angels have free will?

No clue.

I would hope you would know. Why wouldn't the Bible cover such an important feature of it own mythology? How do we know we have free will and they do or don't?

The Bible doesn't say much about it. But it does talk about God being a just/fair being and that is good enough for me.

We know we have free will since we can reject God.

So does that mean Satan has free will?

Yes, I think it is obvious that angels/demons have free will. Nothing goes against that idea in the Bible. That is the short explanation.

You go from "no clue" to "it is obvious" - really thinking on your feet eh?

I was kind of humorous the first time.

They were adults and they did have a concept of right and wrong.

How could they possibly have a concept of right and wrong when it was the apple that contained said concept?

The fruit (never says apple) didn't contain evil. Their decision to disobey God was an evil action which in effect brought evil into the world.

The Bible clearly states the fruit contained knowledge of Good and Evil.

No it doesn't. It says that when they eat the fruit, they will then have knowledge of good and evil.

Yes it does. And now you admit before eating the frut Adam and Eve could not have the knowledge of Good and Evil, thus their actions couldn't have been evil.

They knew the difference between right and wrong.

But they had never experienced evil themselves.

The serpent says that "God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:5).

Good and Evil, yes I've already established that.

"And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil." Gen 2:9

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Gen 2:17

Yes, but notice how the fruit doesn't kill them? It was their sin that send them to their deaths.

So eating the fruit wasn't a sin in of itself? But their other sin brought them death? Like what?

No, you are correct. Eating the fruit was the sin that brought death into the world. But the fruit did not contain sin like you thought.

Adam and Eve could not have committed evil because they had not tasted the fruit and could not have known what they were doing.

What? They knew what was right and wrong since God told them it was wrong to eat of that one specific tree.

He never said why, he just said don't do it. There's no moral imperative explained behind disobeying him or not especially given the naive/ignorant mindset of Adam and Eve.

He said that if they eat the fruit, then they will die. They understood that they would be disobeying God by eating the fruit.

They just didn't know evil in the sense that they had never done anything evil prior to that moment.

They couldn't have knowingly done anything good or evil until biting the fruit. Did God create the serpent to trick Eve?

They did know right from wrong since God gave them commands. The law always shows people what is right/wrong.

They just hadn't experienced evil yet.