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Do you believe?

bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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8/23/2016 1:33:25 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
We can see from ancient cavemen paintings that those cavemen believed in gods, those are the first gods in existence.
Why don't you believe in those gods?
The first gods that man ever imagined, why don't you believe in them?
picknpull
Posts: 62
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8/23/2016 1:36:00 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 1:33:25 PM, bulproof wrote:
We can see from ancient cavemen paintings that those cavemen believed in gods, those are the first gods in existence.
Why don't you believe in those gods?
The first gods that man ever imagined, why don't you believe in them? : :

Christians believe in the evolution of gods. Their Jesus is the latest god to exist and therefore, it's the correct one.
picknpull
Posts: 62
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8/23/2016 1:47:01 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 1:42:27 PM, bulproof wrote:
You're starting to annoy me again Bog.
Stay out of my posts. : :

You can't accuse me for going off topic my friend. I don't listen to man's commands. I only listen to the commands that the voice of God feed me.
bulproof
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8/23/2016 1:49:06 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 1:47:01 PM, picknpull wrote:
At 8/23/2016 1:42:27 PM, bulproof wrote:
You're starting to annoy me again Bog.
Stay out of my posts. : :

You can't accuse me for going off topic my friend. I don't listen to man's commands. I only listen to the commands that the voice of God feed me.
I didn't.
I told you to feck off
picknpull
Posts: 62
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8/23/2016 1:54:59 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 1:49:06 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/23/2016 1:47:01 PM, picknpull wrote:
At 8/23/2016 1:42:27 PM, bulproof wrote:
You're starting to annoy me again Bog.
Stay out of my posts. : :

You can't accuse me for going off topic my friend. I don't listen to man's commands. I only listen to the commands that the voice of God feed me.
I didn't.
I told you to feck off : :

You're being mean to me like you are with theists. Have I ever been mean to you?
missmedic
Posts: 390
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8/23/2016 1:59:49 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 1:33:25 PM, bulproof wrote:
We can see from ancient cavemen paintings that those cavemen believed in gods, those are the first gods in existence.
Why don't you believe in those gods?
The first gods that man ever imagined, why don't you believe in them?

Man has invented thousands of god over thousands of years and all have myths, all.
Beliefs and faiths represent a type of mental activity that produces an unnecessary and dangerous false sense of trust and wrongful information (thinking coupled with the feeling of 'truth'). Faith rarely agrees with the world around us. History has shown that beliefs and faith, of the most intransigent kind, have served as the justification for tragic violence and destruction and sustained the ignorance of people. Replacing beliefs with predictive thoughts based on experience and evidence provide a means to eliminate intransigence and dangerous superstitious thought.
The more important question is,.............. why do you believe?
Beliefs and faiths do not establish "truths" or facts. It does not matter how many people believe or for how many centuries they have believed it. It does not matter how reverent or important people think of them, if it does not agree with evidence, then it simply cannot have any validity to the outside world. All things we know about the world, we can express without referring to a belief. Even at its most benign level, beliefs can act as barriers to further understanding.
If you have awareness of abstracting, you can then begin to replace believing with thinking. Knowledge, observation, rational thinking, curiosity, and skepticism trump beliefs every time. The more you know the less you believe.........................
12_13
Posts: 1,365
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8/23/2016 8:40:57 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 1:33:25 PM, bulproof wrote:
We can see from ancient cavemen paintings that those cavemen believed in gods, those are the first gods in existence.
Why don't you believe in those gods?
The first gods that man ever imagined, why don't you believe in them?

I have no reason to believe the paintings are paintings of gods.

And even if they would be god"s, they are only paintings and I rather keep Bible God as my God, than some lifeless meaningless thing as my God.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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8/23/2016 9:45:12 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 1:33:25 PM, bulproof wrote:
We can see from ancient cavemen paintings that those cavemen believed in gods, those are the first gods in existence.
Why don't you believe in those gods?
The first gods that man ever imagined, why don't you believe in them?

What Ancient cave paintings show Gods?

What do you mean by "Caveman"?

As for the God of the first humans I do believe in him.

I believe because God is not imagined. It reasonable to deduce such a creator.
ANON_TacTiX
Posts: 460
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8/23/2016 10:25:03 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 8:40:57 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 8/23/2016 1:33:25 PM, bulproof wrote:
We can see from ancient cavemen paintings that those cavemen believed in gods, those are the first gods in existence.
Why don't you believe in those gods?
The first gods that man ever imagined, why don't you believe in them?

I have no reason to believe the paintings are paintings of gods.

And even if they would be god"s, they are only paintings and I rather keep Bible God as my God, than some lifeless meaningless thing as my God.
Your Bible is no more credible than the cave paintings. The only real differences are the time period and the fact that the Bible tells stories using words, not pictures. Besides, how is their portrayal of God any less meaningful or full of life than yours? At least the cave paintings can have pretty colors.

I have to say, I would prefer pictures. The Bible is extremely long winded and sometimes pretty redundant. Not that I am too lazy to read it. It just gets annoying.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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8/24/2016 4:34:58 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 1:33:25 PM, bulproof wrote:
We can see from ancient cavemen paintings that those cavemen believed in gods, those are the first gods in existence.
Why don't you believe in those gods?
I have never met them
The first gods that man ever imagined, why don't you believe in them?
Some people do. For instance, graham hancock does.
trschard
Posts: 9
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8/24/2016 4:39:11 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 4:34:58 PM, janesix wrote:
At 8/23/2016 1:33:25 PM, bulproof wrote:
We can see from ancient cavemen paintings that those cavemen believed in gods, those are the first gods in existence.
Why don't you believe in those gods?
I have never met them
The first gods that man ever imagined, why don't you believe in them?
Some people do. For instance, graham hancock does. : :

Religious gods came from the night sky called constellations. This is why they point to the sky when they talk about their false deities. Jesus lovers love to point to the sky after praying to him.
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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8/24/2016 4:41:35 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 4:39:11 PM, trschard wrote:
At 8/24/2016 4:34:58 PM, janesix wrote:
At 8/23/2016 1:33:25 PM, bulproof wrote:
We can see from ancient cavemen paintings that those cavemen believed in gods, those are the first gods in existence.
Why don't you believe in those gods?
I have never met them
The first gods that man ever imagined, why don't you believe in them?
Some people do. For instance, graham hancock does. : :

Religious gods came from the night sky called constellations. This is why they point to the sky when they talk about their false deities. Jesus lovers love to point to the sky after praying to him.
Says who?
trschard
Posts: 9
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8/24/2016 6:00:37 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 4:41:35 PM, janesix wrote:
At 8/24/2016 4:39:11 PM, trschard wrote:
At 8/24/2016 4:34:58 PM, janesix wrote:
At 8/23/2016 1:33:25 PM, bulproof wrote:
We can see from ancient cavemen paintings that those cavemen believed in gods, those are the first gods in existence.
Why don't you believe in those gods?
I have never met them
The first gods that man ever imagined, why don't you believe in them?
Some people do. For instance, graham hancock does. : :

Religious gods came from the night sky called constellations. This is why they point to the sky when they talk about their false deities. Jesus lovers love to point to the sky after praying to him.
Says who? : :

Says the voice of God.
12_13
Posts: 1,365
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8/24/2016 8:01:54 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 10:25:03 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
Your Bible is no more credible than the cave paintings.

Ok, but Bible has something to say. Those pictures don't say much and it is even questionable are they pictures of gods.

The only real differences are the time period and the fact that the Bible tells stories using words, not pictures.

I have no problem with message that is told with pictures. But those pictures don"t really tell message.

Besides, how is their portrayal of God any less meaningful or full of life than yours?

Bible God has message and promises that I see true. I see Bible God to have real effect on this life.
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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8/24/2016 8:18:09 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 9:45:12 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/23/2016 1:33:25 PM, bulproof wrote:
We can see from ancient cavemen paintings that those cavemen believed in gods, those are the first gods in existence.
Why don't you believe in those gods?
The first gods that man ever imagined, why don't you believe in them?

What Ancient cave paintings show Gods?

What do you mean by "Caveman"?

As for the God of the first humans I do believe in him.

I believe because God is not imagined. It reasonable to deduce such a creator.
Deduce.....................imagine......................hmmmmmm..............wanna try that again?
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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8/24/2016 8:19:42 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 8:01:54 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 8/23/2016 10:25:03 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
Your Bible is no more credible than the cave paintings.

Ok, but Bible has something to say. Those pictures don't say much and it is even questionable are they pictures of gods.

The only real differences are the time period and the fact that the Bible tells stories using words, not pictures.

I have no problem with message that is told with pictures. But those pictures don"t really tell message.

Besides, how is their portrayal of God any less meaningful or full of life than yours?

Bible God has message and promises that I see true. I see Bible God to have real effect on this life.
What and where and when?
ANON_TacTiX
Posts: 460
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8/25/2016 2:18:26 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 8:01:54 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 8/23/2016 10:25:03 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
Your Bible is no more credible than the cave paintings.

Ok, but Bible has something to say. Those pictures don't say much and it is even questionable are they pictures of gods.
A picture is worth a thousand words. Who says that the pictures don't say anything? What about picture books for children? do those not tell a story?
The only real differences are the time period and the fact that the Bible tells stories using words, not pictures.

I have no problem with message that is told with pictures. But those pictures don"t really tell message.
Again, why can't a picture tell a story?
Besides, how is their portrayal of God any less meaningful or full of life than yours?

Bible God has message and promises that I see true. I see Bible God to have real effect on this life.
They thought that their God or gods had an effect on their lives. More than likely, their God or gods would have had more influence on the world than yours (if they were actually real). Their God or gods more than likely controlled certain elements of the world that the primitive humans didn't understand. Things like lightning, fire, the weather, etc. The Christian God, however doesn't really interact with the world at all, except in the Bible.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
12_13
Posts: 1,365
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8/25/2016 8:04:59 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 8:19:42 PM, bulproof wrote:
Bible God has message and promises that I see true. I see Bible God to have real effect on this life.
What and where and when?

Bible God has made promises and I see things go as promised. Like for example:

"'But if you will not listen to me, and will not do all these commandments; and if you shall reject my statutes, and if your soul abhors my ordinances, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant; I also will do this to you: I will appoint terror over you, even consumption and fever, that shall consume the eyes, and make the soul to pine away; and you will sow your seed in vain, for your enemies will eat it.
Leviticus 26:14-16
I will scatter you among the nations, and I will draw out the sword after you: and your land will be a desolation, and your cities shall be a waste.
Leviticus 26:33
It shall happen, when all these things are come on you, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before you, and you shall call them to mind among all the nations, where Yahweh your God has driven you, and shall return to Yahweh your God, and shall obey his voice according to all that I command you this day, you and your children, with all your heart, and with all your soul; that then Yahweh your God will turn your captivity, and have compassion on you, and will return and gather you from all the peoples, where Yahweh your God has scattered you. If any of your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of the heavens, from there will Yahweh your God gather you, and from there will he bring you back:
Deuteronomy 30:1-4

Has any other "god" made promises like that and also fulfilled the promise after over thousands of years?
12_13
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8/25/2016 8:05:04 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/25/2016 2:18:26 AM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
Who says that the pictures don't say anything? What about picture books for children? do those not tell a story?

I was speaking about the cave paintings.

They thought that their God or gods had an effect on their lives. More than likely, their God or gods would have had more influence on the world than yours (if they were actually real). Their God or gods more than likely controlled certain elements of the world that the primitive humans didn't understand. Things like lightning, fire, the weather, etc.

It is even not clear that the pictures are of some god.

The Christian God, however doesn't really interact with the world at all, except in the Bible.

Bible God has given promises and I see them to fulfil as promised.
ANON_TacTiX
Posts: 460
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8/25/2016 10:09:05 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/25/2016 8:05:04 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 8/25/2016 2:18:26 AM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
Who says that the pictures don't say anything? What about picture books for children? do those not tell a story?

I was speaking about the cave paintings.
They are still pictures (primitive ones), and pictures can still tell a story.
They thought that their God or gods had an effect on their lives. More than likely, their God or gods would have had more influence on the world than yours (if they were actually real). Their God or gods more than likely controlled certain elements of the world that the primitive humans didn't understand. Things like lightning, fire, the weather, etc.

It is even not clear that the pictures are of some god.
I am arguing under the assumption that they are.
The Christian God, however doesn't really interact with the world at all, except in the Bible.

Bible God has given promises and I see them to fulfil as promised.
Promises like what?
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
12_13
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8/26/2016 10:45:27 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/25/2016 10:09:05 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
Promises like what?

Check post 19 in this thread.
ANON_TacTiX
Posts: 460
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8/27/2016 1:39:19 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 10:45:27 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 8/25/2016 10:09:05 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
Promises like what?

Check post 19 in this thread.

So God promises to do bad things to bad people and good things to good people. Great. There is not proof or evidence that God even followed through with these promises. In life, a lot of bad people are extremely fortunate, and after death, you don't know what happens to them. Where is your proof that bad things happen to bad people and good things happen to good people because of God? Besides, what about all of the promises God breaks?

Genesis 2:16-17
And the Lord God commanded the man, saying "You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die."

God tells Adam that he will die in the same day that he eats of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. IN THE SAME DAY. Not, "You will die eventually because I will make you mortal." The same day. The truth is that God didn't want Adam and Eve to gain knowledge. The serpent wasn't the evil one. He was looking out for Adam and Eve. He wanted to see them gain knowledge. He wanted them to advance and question things. The serpent didn't know that they would be punished, but he knew that they wouldn't die, and he was right. God not only went back on his word, but proved himself to be the worst character in the Bible. He creates these beings and gives them the means to gain knowledge and says, "No, don't gain knowledge. Just follow me without question and remain in blissful ignorance while I tell you how to live and control you like ants." God punishes his little creations for daring to gain knowledge and trying to learn.

That is just one instance of God going back on his word and proving what a terrible role he plays in the Bible. And we're not even half done with the second page.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
12_13
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8/28/2016 7:31:32 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/27/2016 1:39:19 AM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
So God promises to do bad things to bad people and good things to good people. Great. There is not proof or evidence that God even followed through with these promises. In life, a lot of bad people are extremely fortunate, and after death, you don't know what happens to them. Where is your proof that bad things happen to bad people and good things happen to good people because of God?

Funny how you couldn"t bring any argument against what Bible really says, but you had to make your own version of it and then fight against it. It is not very smart looking, but perhaps other people don"t understand what is strawman argument and you have small chance in ignorant reality.

Genesis 2:16-17
And the Lord God commanded the man, saying "You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die."

God tells Adam that he will die in the same day that he eats of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. IN THE SAME DAY.

But what is a day for God? Bible says:

And this one thing let not be unobserved by you, beloved, that one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day;

2 Pet. 3:8

So, one day lasted 1000 years and if we look how old Adam was when he died:
" Adam lived were nine hundred thirty years, then he died.
Gen. 5:5

So, it can be seen that Adam died during that day, as promised. :)

The truth is that God didn't want Adam and Eve to gain knowledge.

I think that is not true. They could have asked all directly from God and they had the chance to eat the fruit. I think God only wanted to give chance to have easier life and not know evil like God knows. The way that we now learn what evil means can be hard, because we may have to suffer to really know what evil is (Godless life).

The serpent wasn't the evil one. He was looking out for Adam and Eve. He wanted to see them gain knowledge. He wanted them to advance and question things. The serpent didn't know that they would be punished, but he knew that they wouldn't die, and he was right.

Basically you are claiming they still live. That is quite dramatic claim.
Casten
Posts: 391
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8/28/2016 7:58:53 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Because they were just products of imagination that helped the "cavemen" make sense of the world and get through life.
ANON_TacTiX
Posts: 460
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8/28/2016 8:54:26 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/28/2016 7:31:32 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 8/27/2016 1:39:19 AM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
So God promises to do bad things to bad people and good things to good people. Great. There is not proof or evidence that God even followed through with these promises. In life, a lot of bad people are extremely fortunate, and after death, you don't know what happens to them. Where is your proof that bad things happen to bad people and good things happen to good people because of God?

Funny how you couldn"t bring any argument against what Bible really says, but you had to make your own version of it and then fight against it. It is not very smart looking, but perhaps other people don"t understand what is strawman argument and you have small chance in ignorant reality.

Genesis 2:16-17
And the Lord God commanded the man, saying "You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die."

God tells Adam that he will die in the same day that he eats of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. IN THE SAME DAY.

But what is a day for God? Bible says:

And this one thing let not be unobserved by you, beloved, that one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day;

2 Pet. 3:8

So, one day lasted 1000 years and if we look how old Adam was when he died:
" Adam lived were nine hundred thirty years, then he died.
Gen. 5:5

So, it can be seen that Adam died during that day, as promised. :)
That is New Testament. If this were true, why wouldn't they state that one day is 1000 years in the Old Testament instead of conveniently adding it in later? Besides, why would God use his day lengths in his command to Adam? It just causes confusion. Unless God wanted them to think that they would die in one of their days.

Besides, the fact is that God punished his creations for gaining knowledge. It is like punishing an ant for drinking sugar water. Humans crave knowledge and understanding. To deny or punish the quest for knowledge is cruel. Even worse, God basically said, "Hey, here is a way to gain knowledge and become like Gods. Don't do that. Just stay stupid and follow me blindly." The funniest part is that if Adam and Eve had been smart enough to stay naked and not clothe themselves, God wouldn't have suspected a thing.
The truth is that God didn't want Adam and Eve to gain knowledge.

I think that is not true. They could have asked all directly from God and they had the chance to eat the fruit. I think God only wanted to give chance to have easier life and not know evil like God knows.
Oh, great. Blissful ignorance. No questions, no advancements, no pursuit of knowledge. What kind of life is that? To live like that is not healthy. Practically inhuman. (Not inhumane, inhuman. Bid difference.)
The way that we now learn what evil means can be hard, because we may have to suffer to really know what evil is (Godless life).
They didn't just learn about evil. The tree was called the tree of knowledge of GOOD and evil. Besides, what about the story of Babel? They tried to create a tower to the heavens so that they could converse with God. They tried to ask God directly, and he cursed them with multiple languages.
The serpent wasn't the evil one. He was looking out for Adam and Eve. He wanted to see them gain knowledge. He wanted them to advance and question things. The serpent didn't know that they would be punished, but he knew that they wouldn't die, and he was right.

Basically you are claiming they still live. That is quite dramatic claim.
I am not claiming that Adam and Eve are still alive. I never claimed that they existed in the first place. This is all according to the bible.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
12_13
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8/29/2016 8:34:13 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/28/2016 8:54:26 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
That is New Testament. If this were true, why wouldn't they state that one day is 1000 years in the Old Testament instead of conveniently adding it in later? Besides, why would God use his day lengths in his command to Adam? It just causes confusion. Unless God wanted them to think that they would die in one of their days.

It is what the Bible tells and I try not to be cherry picker, even if I don"t know why Bible tells some things.

But there is also another thing that is good to notice. In more accurate translation it is said:
and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it--dying thou dost die.'
Gen. 2:17

So, god said that they shall die with death that day. And in Biblical point of view this "life" is actually death. We die by this death that nowadays lasts about 100 years. So if you want, we can ignore what the NT says about God"s days, because it is enough to understand that it was that day when death came, but death is slow process. And for that people were expelled from paradise to this death. That day they lost their life with God.

Besides, the fact is that God punished his creations for gaining knowledge. It is like punishing an ant for drinking sugar water. Humans crave knowledge and understanding. To deny or punish the quest for knowledge is cruel. Even worse, God basically said, "Hey, here is a way to gain knowledge and become like Gods. Don't do that. Just stay stupid and follow me blindly." The funniest part is that if Adam and Eve had been smart enough to stay naked and not clothe themselves, God wouldn't have suspected a thing.

People got what they wanted. That is why I think it is not a punishment. But knowing evil is not very pleasant thing, it is usually suffering and pain. Also, they could have asked form God everything directly, so I think it is not really about getting knowledge, but people wanted to become like God and rejected God, which is really stupid thing, because all evil things comes possible without God.

Oh, great. Blissful ignorance. No questions, no advancements, no pursuit of knowledge. What kind of life is that? To live like that is not healthy. Practically inhuman. (Not inhumane, inhuman. Bid difference.)

You don"t seem to understand what I wrote. They could have asked from God directly about good and evil, but they chose the hard way.

They didn't just learn about evil. The tree was called the tree of knowledge of GOOD and evil. Besides, what about the story of Babel? They tried to create a tower to the heavens so that they could converse with God. They tried to ask God directly, and he cursed them with multiple languages.

The story of Babel seems to be story of black tower of Mordor. The coal was to control people and have one world government to rule all, because the reason why it was made was to prevent people to scatter (and so limit their freedom).

And they say, `Give help, let us build for ourselves a city and tower, and its head in the heavens, and make for ourselves a name, lest we be scattered over the face of all the earth.'
Gen. 11:4

I am not claiming that Adam and Eve are still alive. I never claimed that they existed in the first place. This is all according to the bible.

Ok, and because they have died, Bible and God is right. :)
ANON_TacTiX
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8/30/2016 9:31:11 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/29/2016 8:34:13 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 8/28/2016 8:54:26 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
That is New Testament. If this were true, why wouldn't they state that one day is 1000 years in the Old Testament instead of conveniently adding it in later? Besides, why would God use his day lengths in his command to Adam? It just causes confusion. Unless God wanted them to think that they would die in one of their days.

It is what the Bible tells and I try not to be cherry picker, even if I don"t know why Bible tells some things.

But there is also another thing that is good to notice. In more accurate translation it is said:
and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it--dying thou dost die.'
Gen. 2:17

So, god said that they shall die with death that day. And in Biblical point of view this "life" is actually death.
Because that is what every person thinks about when a supernatural being says that they will die. Even if that is true, God was still trying to confuse Adam and prevent him gaining knowledge. The snake, however, was straightforward and wanted him and Eve to gain knowledge and actually question things for themselves.
We die by this death that nowadays lasts about 100 years. So if you want, we can ignore what the NT says about God"s days, because it is enough to understand that it was that day when death came, but death is slow process. And for that people were expelled from paradise to this death. That day they lost their life with God.
I feel very much alive, and I don't believe in God. My life is actually much better now. I can think for myself and question religion. I can stop rejecting scientific theories about our universe just because they don't fit my religion. I no longer have to worry about how much I pray or if I will go to Hell. The day I rejected my religion, my life got much better.
Besides, the fact is that God punished his creations for gaining knowledge. It is like punishing an ant for drinking sugar water. Humans crave knowledge and understanding. To deny or punish the quest for knowledge is cruel. Even worse, God basically said, "Hey, here is a way to gain knowledge and become like Gods. Don't do that. Just stay stupid and follow me blindly." The funniest part is that if Adam and Eve had been smart enough to stay naked and not clothe themselves, God wouldn't have suspected a thing.

People got what they wanted. That is why I think it is not a punishment.
It is not a punishment to suddenly go from immortal to mortal? It is not a punishment to be cast from paradise down to Earth?
But knowing evil is not very pleasant thing, it is usually suffering and pain.
They knew good, too. Knowing that the world is can be a terrible place can suck, but it is more than balanced out by the knowledge of people's potential to do good. Plus, it beats ignorance.
Also, they could have asked form God everything directly, so I think it is not really about getting knowledge, but people wanted to become like God and rejected God, which is really stupid thing, because all evil things comes possible without God.
Again, the story of Babel. They tried to ask God, and now I have to learn Spanish in high school. They wanted knowledge straight from God, and they were cursed for it.
Oh, great. Blissful ignorance. No questions, no advancements, no pursuit of knowledge. What kind of life is that? To live like that is not healthy. Practically inhuman. (Not inhumane, inhuman. Bid difference.)

You don"t seem to understand what I wrote. They could have asked from God directly about good and evil, but they chose the hard way.
Again, Babel.
They didn't just learn about evil. The tree was called the tree of knowledge of GOOD and evil. Besides, what about the story of Babel? They tried to create a tower to the heavens so that they could converse with God. They tried to ask God directly, and he cursed them with multiple languages.

The story of Babel seems to be story of black tower of Mordor. The coal was to control people and have one world government to rule all, because the reason why it was made was to prevent people to scatter (and so limit their freedom).
And significant advancements of the human race did not come about until civilizations were actually set up and the nomadic lifestyle was abandoned. There are actually still tribes today that still live a nomadic lifestyle. Many of them don't even know how to make fire yet. Knowledge increases when people come together and share knowledge, rather than everyone just wandering the Earth with their tribe. Another instance of God hindering man's advances in the Bible.
And they say, `Give help, let us build for ourselves a city and tower, and its head in the heavens, and make for ourselves a name, lest we be scattered over the face of all the earth.'
Gen. 11:4

I am not claiming that Adam and Eve are still alive. I never claimed that they existed in the first place. This is all according to the bible.

Ok, and because they have died, Bible and God is right. :)
I am actually claiming that they never existed, and that the Bible and God are not to be trusted. They teach lies and contradictions.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
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8/31/2016 5:11:05 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 1:33:25 PM, bulproof wrote:
We can see from ancient cavemen paintings that those cavemen believed in gods, those are the first gods in existence.
Why don't you believe in those gods?
The first gods that man ever imagined, why don't you believe in them?

I am not aware of any ancient caveman paintings of "gods". They mostly painted animals because they believed in animal spirits. Perhaps they believed if they could capture the animal's spirit in paint, they could capture the animal, itself, on a successful hunt. Or perhaps they painted the animals as a way of paying their respect to the animal's spirit for giving itself up to feed we humans. We don't really know which. Or maybe it was both. But it's not likely that the animals that very ancient humans painted in caves were considered "gods".