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Religion is the Highest Stage of Evolution

Fatihah
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8/24/2016 1:03:37 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
Assuming there is no God, that means our alleged common ancestor had no religion. Additionally, civilization was not advanced as it is today as it was back then. So our common ancestors had no clothes, knew nothing of science, no industrial or agricultural advances, no technological advances, etc. They were uncivilized.

As our ancestors allegedly evolved, they saw fit to establish religions and all the while, society also advances in the categories listed above.

So to deny religion and God, aren't you essentially going backwards?
Les_Rong
Posts: 341
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8/24/2016 1:07:17 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
You're not real good at this whole logic deal, are you? Here's a hint: First your premises need to be established. Next, the conclusion needs to actually follow from your premises. You are welcome.
Fatihah
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8/24/2016 1:14:52 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 1:07:17 AM, Les_Rong wrote:
You're not real good at this whole logic deal, are you? Here's a hint: First your premises need to be established. Next, the conclusion needs to actually follow from your premises. You are welcome.

Response: Being that you couldn't show it was illogical, you refute yourself.
dee-em
Posts: 6,476
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8/24/2016 1:45:36 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 1:03:37 AM, Fatihah wrote:

Assuming there is no God, that means our alleged common ancestor had no religion.

Non sequitur. You can have religion without the existence of God. Look around you today. All you need is the idea of God.

Additionally, civilization was not advanced as it is today as it was back then. So our common ancestors had no clothes, knew nothing of science, no industrial or agricultural advances, no technological advances, etc. They were uncivilized.

As our ancestors allegedly evolved, ...

Progress is not biological evolution.

... they saw fit to establish religions and all the while, society also advances in the categories listed above.

Correlation is not causation. Besides, Paleolithic humans certainly had spiritual beliefs. Even Neanderthals are thought to have worshipped animal spirits and buried their dead. So religion has been around from earliest times, way before civilization.

So to deny religion and God, aren't you essentially going backwards?

No, that would be going forwards and putting aside primitive superstitions.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,748
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8/24/2016 2:24:05 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 1:45:36 AM, dee-em wrote:

Non sequitur. You can have religion without the existence of God. Look around you today. All you need is the idea of God.


Progress is not biological evolution.

Correlation is not causation. Besides, Paleolithic humans certainly had spiritual beliefs. Even Neanderthals are thought to have worshipped animal spirits and buried their dead. So religion has been around from earliest times, way before civilization.


No, that would be going forwards and putting aside primitive superstitions.

Response: Civilization prior to primitive superstitions lacked in advancement. That is not forward.
Willows
Posts: 2,063
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8/24/2016 2:41:56 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 1:03:37 AM, Fatihah wrote:
Assuming there is no God, that means our alleged common ancestor had no religion. Additionally, civilization was not advanced as it is today as it was back then. So our common ancestors had no clothes, knew nothing of science, no industrial or agricultural advances, no technological advances, etc. They were uncivilized.

As our ancestors allegedly evolved, they saw fit to establish religions and all the while, society also advances in the categories listed above.

So to deny religion and God, aren't you essentially going backwards?
Yep, your logic is way off kilter alright.
You are going to get enough posts to correct you on that count.

I could probably more rightly claim that if it weren't for religion we would be far more advanced by now.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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8/24/2016 2:45:49 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 1:03:37 AM, Fatihah wrote:
Assuming there is no God, that means our alleged common ancestor had no religion. Additionally, civilization was not advanced as it is today as it was back then. So our common ancestors had no clothes, knew nothing of science, no industrial or agricultural advances, no technological advances, etc. They were uncivilized.

As our ancestors allegedly evolved, they saw fit to establish religions and all the while, society also advances in the categories listed above.

So to deny religion and God, aren't you essentially going backwards?

Well Evolution and time show that Religion is more beneficial to Human populations than With-out Religion.

In Fact.. If we look at all the cultures and societies throughout time and see that Atheist are vastly under represented. And the Atheist states that have developed fell apart in one generation.. You might conclude by evolutionary standards.. Atheism is detrimental to the development and growth of human societies.
Fatihah
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8/24/2016 2:48:56 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 2:41:56 AM, Willows wrote:

I could probably more rightly claim that if it weren't for religion we would be far more advanced by now.

Response: Yet during the alleged evolution process, your ancestors saw it fit to adopt religion and society still became advanced. Where is this advanced society or civilization of disbelievers in history who are as advanced?
Fatihah
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8/24/2016 2:52:34 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 2:45:49 AM, Mhykiel wrote:

Well Evolution and time show that Religion is more beneficial to Human populations than With-out Religion.

In Fact.. If we look at all the cultures and societies throughout time and see that Atheist are vastly under represented. And the Atheist states that have developed fell apart in one generation.. You might conclude by evolutionary standards.. Atheism is detrimental to the development and growth of human societies.

Response: Sounds accurate to me. So I'm trying to figure out how atheists think to have a more logical position knowing their own ancestors abandoned atheism and chose religion and society became advanced. Whereas when they were atheist, they were not advanced and uncivilized.
Les_Rong
Posts: 341
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8/24/2016 2:53:56 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 1:14:52 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/24/2016 1:07:17 AM, Les_Rong wrote:
You're not real good at this whole logic deal, are you? Here's a hint: First your premises need to be established. Next, the conclusion needs to actually follow from your premises. You are welcome.

Response: Being that you couldn't show it was illogical, you refute yourself.

Your first conclusion does not follow from your first premise.

And I am not presenting an argument you are. Or at least you're trying to.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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8/24/2016 2:54:43 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 1:45:36 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/24/2016 1:03:37 AM, Fatihah wrote:

Assuming there is no God, that means our alleged common ancestor had no religion.

Non sequitur. You can have religion without the existence of God. Look around you today. All you need is the idea of God.

incorrect. He can begin with assuming. He is saying let us assume there is no God. So religion did not develop as a response to early man (adam and eve) knowing of God. That religion is a social construct.


Additionally, civilization was not advanced as it is today as it was back then. So our common ancestors had no clothes, knew nothing of science, no industrial or agricultural advances, no technological advances, etc. They were uncivilized.

As our ancestors allegedly evolved, ...

Progress is not biological evolution.

You mean those goat herders 6,000 years ago were not cavemen with less intelligence and small brains? Wo did you tell bulpoop this?


... they saw fit to establish religions and all the while, society also advances in the categories listed above.

Correlation is not causation. Besides, Paleolithic humans certainly had spiritual beliefs. Even Neanderthals are thought to have worshipped animal spirits and buried their dead. So religion has been around from earliest times, way before civilization.

The timing of when religion emerged is beside the point of the OP. It still carries weight that religious thought is pretty much universal among human beings. According to Evolution such a distribution would imply a connection to greater survival fitness.


So to deny religion and God, aren't you essentially going backwards?

No, that would be going forwards and putting aside primitive superstitions.

Because that has worked so well so far. I guess what you mean by "progress" is extinction.
Fatihah
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8/24/2016 2:55:42 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 2:53:56 AM, Les_Rong wrote:


Your first conclusion does not follow from your first premise.

And I am not presenting an argument you are. Or at least you're trying to.

Response: Exactly. You are not bringing any argument. So your points remain....pointless.
Les_Rong
Posts: 341
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8/24/2016 2:56:15 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 2:48:56 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/24/2016 2:41:56 AM, Willows wrote:

I could probably more rightly claim that if it weren't for religion we would be far more advanced by now.

Response: Yet during the alleged evolution process, your ancestors saw it fit to adopt religion and society still became advanced. Where is this advanced society or civilization of disbelievers in history who are as advanced?

Sweden.
Fatihah
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8/24/2016 2:57:09 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 2:56:15 AM, Les_Rong wrote:
At 8/24/2016 2:48:56 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/24/2016 2:41:56 AM, Willows wrote:

I could probably more rightly claim that if it weren't for religion we would be far more advanced by now.

Response: Yet during the alleged evolution process, your ancestors saw it fit to adopt religion and society still became advanced. Where is this advanced society or civilization of disbelievers in history who are as advanced?

Sweden.

Response: Nope.
dee-em
Posts: 6,476
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8/24/2016 3:41:35 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 2:54:43 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/24/2016 1:45:36 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/24/2016 1:03:37 AM, Fatihah wrote:

Assuming there is no God, that means our alleged common ancestor had no religion.

Non sequitur. You can have religion without the existence of God. Look around you today. All you need is the idea of God.

incorrect. He can begin with assuming. He is saying let us assume there is no God. So religion did not develop as a response to early man (adam and eve) knowing of God. That religion is a social construct.

Are you having a problem with logic again, Mhykiel? I have no issue with the premise. Fatty then continues "that means ...". Unfortunately for him, the premise does not lead to his conclusion. Firstly, there were religious/spiritual beliefs in Paleolithic times. Secondly, it is possible to have religious beliefs without the known existence of the subject of that belief. This is evident right throughout history with the thousands of gods invented by men. Hence the non sequitur. Yeah?

Additionally, civilization was not advanced as it is today as it was back then. So our common ancestors had no clothes, knew nothing of science, no industrial or agricultural advances, no technological advances, etc. They were uncivilized.

As our ancestors allegedly evolved, ...

Progress is not biological evolution.

You mean those goat herders 6,000 years ago were not cavemen with less intelligence and small brains? Wo did you tell bulpoop this?

No. Human brains haven't changed much in the last 80-100,000 years. Accumulated knowledge and the means to preserve it has.

... they saw fit to establish religions and all the while, society also advances in the categories listed above.

Correlation is not causation. Besides, Paleolithic humans certainly had spiritual beliefs. Even Neanderthals are thought to have worshipped animal spirits and buried their dead. So religion has been around from earliest times, way before civilization.

The timing of when religion emerged is beside the point of the OP. It still carries weight that religious thought is pretty much universal among human beings.

That's not in dispute. Humans from earliest times had a tendency to assign agency to natural events. It had an evolutionary benefit as an aid to survival. It then went further to assuming supernatural agency for unexplained phenomena. The evolutionary benefit of that is far less clear.

According to Evolution such a distribution would imply a connection to greater survival fitness.

See above. Religious beliefs haven't been around long enough to determine whether they have any evolutionary effect on survivability. Regardless, whether they do or don't, it is irrelevant to the question of their validity, obviously.

So to deny religion and God, aren't you essentially going backwards?

No, that would be going forwards and putting aside primitive superstitions.

Because that has worked so well so far.

Yes, again obviously. The planet supports more humans today at a greater level of well-being than at any previous time in history.

I guess what you mean by "progress" is extinction.

If you call 7+ billion people extinction. Lol.

I'm not sure what world you live in but the one I inhabit is doing just fine. Problems? Sure. Nothing we can't handle if we continue to co-operate though.
ANON_TacTiX
Posts: 460
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8/24/2016 4:59:32 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 1:03:37 AM, Fatihah wrote:
Assuming there is no God, that means our alleged common ancestor had no religion.
It is kind of hard for a single celled organism to come up with stories to explain the world around it. The thing can't even think. Unless, of course, you aren't going that far back. If you are talking about the ape-like creatures that we evolved from, they can think, but they still aren't capable of creating religions.
Additionally, civilization was not advanced as it is today as it was back then. So our common ancestors had no clothes, knew nothing of science, no industrial or agricultural advances, no technological advances, etc. They were uncivilized.
That is why they needed religion to explain things that they couldn't with their primitive minds and tools.
As our ancestors allegedly evolved, they saw fit to establish religions and all the while, society also advances in the categories listed above.
They established religion to explain things that they could not. It is because they were not advanced enough that they needed religion. What is lightning? Who knows? It must be the result of some supernatural being. Also, religion did not advance along with science and technology. Religion hindered technological and scientific advancements quite a lot. There was an era when everything was controlled by religion, and it was called the dark ages. No advancement.
So to deny religion and God, aren't you essentially going backwards?
No. Religion was born from and thrives off of ignorance and the tendency to cling to old beliefs. To deny religion and God is to allow for further advances and knowledge. Just look at Galileo and his discoveries. His discovery that Earth was not the center of the universe wasn't actually published until he was on his deathbed. This is because the Catholic Church (which controlled a lot of the scientific community) threatened him with death. An enormous advancement that we now take for granted, and it was kept from everyone for years. Today, however, science and technology are advancing faster than ever before. What a coincidence that today, science and religion are separate.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
Willows
Posts: 2,063
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8/24/2016 9:19:45 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 2:48:56 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/24/2016 2:41:56 AM, Willows wrote:

I could probably more rightly claim that if it weren't for religion we would be far more advanced by now.

Response: Yet during the alleged evolution process, your ancestors saw it fit to adopt religion and society still became advanced.

Your logic is askew:
Statement 1: "......ancestors saw fit to adopt religion"
Statement 2: "......and society still became advanced"
Are you trying to infer that statement 2 is a result of statement 1?

Where is this advanced society or civilization of disbelievers in history who are as advanced?

What advanced society? i.e. What on earth are you talking about?
Willows
Posts: 2,063
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8/24/2016 9:28:13 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 2:45:49 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/24/2016 1:03:37 AM, Fatihah wrote:
Assuming there is no God, that means our alleged common ancestor had no religion. Additionally, civilization was not advanced as it is today as it was back then. So our common ancestors had no clothes, knew nothing of science, no industrial or agricultural advances, no technological advances, etc. They were uncivilized.

As our ancestors allegedly evolved, they saw fit to establish religions and all the while, society also advances in the categories listed above.

So to deny religion and God, aren't you essentially going backwards?

Well Evolution and time show that Religion is more beneficial to Human populations than With-out Religion.

In Fact.. If we look at all the cultures and societies throughout time and see that Atheist are vastly under represented. And the Atheist states that have developed fell apart in one generation.. You might conclude by evolutionary standards.. Atheism is detrimental to the development and growth of human societies.

What athiest states fell apart? And by the same token, how many religious states fell apart.
Even if you could even decide which states were or were not atheist and the count happened to be higher for atheist states falling apart, you might not make your suggested conclusion.
What's going on between the two of you anyway.....is this "lose some brain cells day" or what?
Willows
Posts: 2,063
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8/24/2016 9:30:33 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 2:52:34 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/24/2016 2:45:49 AM, Mhykiel wrote:

Well Evolution and time show that Religion is more beneficial to Human populations than With-out Religion.

In Fact.. If we look at all the cultures and societies throughout time and see that Atheist are vastly under represented. And the Atheist states that have developed fell apart in one generation.. You might conclude by evolutionary standards.. Atheism is detrimental to the development and growth of human societies.

Response: Sounds accurate to me. So I'm trying to figure out how atheists think to have a more logical position knowing their own ancestors abandoned atheism and chose religion and society became advanced. Whereas when they were atheist, they were not advanced and uncivilized.

Or why 1 + 1 = 11
Most people got over that sort of reasoning soon after their 6th birthday.
Looncall
Posts: 456
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8/24/2016 9:32:36 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 2:48:56 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/24/2016 2:41:56 AM, Willows wrote:

I could probably more rightly claim that if it weren't for religion we would be far more advanced by now.

Response: Yet during the alleged evolution process, your ancestors saw it fit to adopt religion and society still became advanced. Where is this advanced society or civilization of disbelievers in history who are as advanced?

Religion was a failed attempt at science that developed at a time when humanity lacked the tools to understand the world. It is still around because it became a scam organized by clergy.

Muslim societies explicitly abandoned science in favour of religion and are now some of the most backward on the planet.

Northern Europe is throwing off the shackles of religion and includes our most advanced societies.

The available evidence refutes your opinion.
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
Willows
Posts: 2,063
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8/24/2016 9:34:29 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 1:14:52 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/24/2016 1:07:17 AM, Les_Rong wrote:
You're not real good at this whole logic deal, are you? Here's a hint: First your premises need to be established. Next, the conclusion needs to actually follow from your premises. You are welcome.

Response: Being that you couldn't show it was illogical, you refute yourself.

He could show but quite rightly doesn't need to.......would you prefer that the reason be placed on a 20' high neon sign in front of your bedroom window in order that you may just get it?
Fatihah
Posts: 7,748
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8/24/2016 10:33:56 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 4:59:32 AM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 8/24/2016 1:03:37 AM, Fatihah wrote:
Assuming there is no God, that means our alleged common ancestor had no religion.
It is kind of hard for a single celled organism to come up with stories to explain the world around it. The thing can't even think. Unless, of course, you aren't going that far back. If you are talking about the ape-like creatures that we evolved from, they can think, but they still aren't capable of creating religions.
Additionally, civilization was not advanced as it is today as it was back then. So our common ancestors had no clothes, knew nothing of science, no industrial or agricultural advances, no technological advances, etc. They were uncivilized.
That is why they needed religion to explain things that they couldn't with their primitive minds and tools.
As our ancestors allegedly evolved, they saw fit to establish religions and all the while, society also advances in the categories listed above.
They established religion to explain things that they could not. It is because they were not advanced enough that they needed religion. What is lightning? Who knows? It must be the result of some supernatural being. Also, religion did not advance along with science and technology. Religion hindered technological and scientific advancements quite a lot. There was an era when everything was controlled by religion, and it was called the dark ages. No advancement.
So to deny religion and God, aren't you essentially going backwards?
No. Religion was born from and thrives off of ignorance and the tendency to cling to old beliefs. To deny religion and God is to allow for further advances and knowledge. Just look at Galileo and his discoveries. His discovery that Earth was not the center of the universe wasn't actually published until he was on his deathbed. This is because the Catholic Church (which controlled a lot of the scientific community) threatened him with death. An enormous advancement that we now take for granted, and it was kept from everyone for years. Today, however, science and technology are advancing faster than ever before. What a coincidence that today, science and religion are separate.

Response: Civilizations living in the dark ages were more advanced by far and more civilized than your earliest common ancestors who had no religion.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,748
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8/24/2016 10:35:28 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 9:19:45 AM, Willows wrote:
At 8/24/2016 2:48:56 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/24/2016 2:41:56 AM, Willows wrote:

I could probably more rightly claim that if it weren't for religion we would be far more advanced by now.

Response: Yet during the alleged evolution process, your ancestors saw it fit to adopt religion and society still became advanced.

Your logic is askew:
Statement 1: "......ancestors saw fit to adopt religion"
Statement 2: "......and society still became advanced"
Are you trying to infer that statement 2 is a result of statement 1?

Where is this advanced society or civilization of disbelievers in history who are as advanced?

What advanced society? i.e. What on earth are you talking about?

Response: I never inferred anything. You did since it is your belief.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,748
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8/24/2016 10:36:36 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 9:30:33 AM, Willows wrote:

Or why 1 + 1 = 11
Most people got over that sort of reasoning soon after their 6th birthday.

Response: So I take it your 5 years old.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,748
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8/24/2016 10:38:53 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 9:32:36 AM, Looncall wrote:
At 8/24/2016 2:48:56 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/24/2016 2:41:56 AM, Willows wrote:

I could probably more rightly claim that if it weren't for religion we would be far more advanced by now.

Response: Yet during the alleged evolution process, your ancestors saw it fit to adopt religion and society still became advanced. Where is this advanced society or civilization of disbelievers in history who are as advanced?

Religion was a failed attempt at science that developed at a time when humanity lacked the tools to understand the world. It is still around because it became a scam organized by clergy.

Muslim societies explicitly abandoned science in favour of religion and are now some of the most backward on the planet.

Northern Europe is throwing off the shackles of religion and includes our most advanced societies.

The available evidence refutes your opinion.

Response: Muslim and any religious society was still more advanced and civilized than your earliest ancestors who were atheists.

So your own ideology refutes your opinion.
Willows
Posts: 2,063
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8/24/2016 10:40:13 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 10:35:28 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/24/2016 9:19:45 AM, Willows wrote:
At 8/24/2016 2:48:56 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/24/2016 2:41:56 AM, Willows wrote:

I could probably more rightly claim that if it weren't for religion we would be far more advanced by now.

Response: Yet during the alleged evolution process, your ancestors saw it fit to adopt religion and society still became advanced.

Your logic is askew:
Statement 1: "......ancestors saw fit to adopt religion"
Statement 2: "......and society still became advanced"
Are you trying to infer that statement 2 is a result of statement 1?

Where is this advanced society or civilization of disbelievers in history who are as advanced?

What advanced society? i.e. What on earth are you talking about?

Response: I never inferred anything. You did since it is your belief.

So you just made those statements for no particular reason or intent at all?
Come on, get real.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,748
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8/24/2016 10:40:14 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 9:34:29 AM, Willows wrote:

He could show but quite rightly doesn't need to.......would you prefer that the reason be placed on a 20' high neon sign in front of your bedroom window in order that you may just get it?

Response: He could is not a logical answer.
Willows
Posts: 2,063
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8/24/2016 10:44:12 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 10:36:36 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/24/2016 9:30:33 AM, Willows wrote:

Or why 1 + 1 = 11
Most people got over that sort of reasoning soon after their 6th birthday.

Response: So I take it your 5 years old.

In which case you are -23 years old, therefore you don't exist and nor does your imaginary friend.
tarantula
Posts: 859
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8/24/2016 10:46:36 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 1:03:37 AM, Fatihah wrote:
Assuming there is no God, that means our alleged common ancestor had no religion. Additionally, civilization was not advanced as it is today as it was back then. So our common ancestors had no clothes, knew nothing of science, no industrial or agricultural advances, no technological advances, etc. They were uncivilized.

As our ancestors allegedly evolved, they saw fit to establish religions and all the while, society also advances in the categories listed above.

So to deny religion and God, aren't you essentially going backwards?

You don't say! LOL!
Fatihah
Posts: 7,748
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8/24/2016 10:47:31 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 10:40:13 AM, Willows wrote:

So you just made those statements for no particular reason or intent at all?
Come on, get real.

Response: Your weak rebuttals show otherwise.