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Would an immortal sentience want immortality

Outplayz
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8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
Again, i am plagued by this thought. Why would an immortal consciousness / sentience want immortality? Maybe if it didn't know social interaction, maybe if it didn't know death, it can... but, if i simply speculate on an immortal intelligence being true, well, it would know these things. I only have our collective intelligence to compare.

This also debunks many religious views for me. Heaven? What is Heaven? What is paradise if i cannot live? How would an immoral intelligence live? Will coincidentally by some kind of mortality, or finite existence. This is why i believe we are both immortal and mortal. I also feel the immoral setting is void of matter or physicality simply bc mortality would fill that manifestation. In essence, i always say we are all gods and this is what i mean from it. Technically not the exact definition overall, but the definition when it comes to you. You have been forever. It just depends on what character you are and what world allows your manifestation into it.

I will explain more from comments and critiques, but i just feel this notion is sorta unchallenged... so, my belief feels unchallenged at this point and i don't like that.
janesix
Posts: 3,435
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8/26/2016 7:46:21 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:
Again, i am plagued by this thought. Why would an immortal consciousness / sentience want immortality? Maybe if it didn't know social interaction, maybe if it didn't know death, it can... but, if i simply speculate on an immortal intelligence being true, well, it would know these things. I only have our collective intelligence to compare.

This also debunks many religious views for me. Heaven? What is Heaven? What is paradise if i cannot live? How would an immoral intelligence live? Will coincidentally by some kind of mortality, or finite existence. This is why i believe we are both immortal and mortal. I also feel the immoral setting is void of matter or physicality simply bc mortality would fill that manifestation. In essence, i always say we are all gods and this is what i mean from it. Technically not the exact definition overall, but the definition when it comes to you. You have been forever. It just depends on what character you are and what world allows your manifestation into it.

I will explain more from comments and critiques, but i just feel this notion is sorta unchallenged... so, my belief feels unchallenged at this point and i don't like that.

Maybe this immortal consciousness got so bored he has to fool himself into thinking he's mortal and forget forever for a while. He's just taking a nap.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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8/26/2016 9:54:43 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:
Why would an immortal consciousness / sentience want immortality?

I can only think of two reasons, Outie:

1) An eternal terror of death;
2) An awful lot of poorly-designed, failed projects. :D
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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8/26/2016 12:25:24 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:
Again, i am plagued by this thought. Why would an immortal consciousness / sentience want immortality?

This also debunks many religious views for me. Heaven? What is Heaven? What is paradise if i cannot live? How would an immoral intelligence live? Will coincidentally by some kind of mortality, or finite existence.
I will explain more from comments and critiques, but i just feel this notion is sorta unchallenged... so, my belief feels unchallenged at this point and i don't like that.

To be honest you really presented no point, had you actually presented one I could address it adequately, up until now you merely just shared your personal feelings how an immortal Entity could feel..... that's not much to work with.

Perhaps clear your point up by asking me a another question, which is why I cut your post, these are the questions you asked you feel are "unchallenged"...

What is Heaven?
Heaven is an afterlife, and existence beyond the grave. It's many things, not just one thing.
What is paradise if I cannot live?
Who said you could not live lol? doesn't the defeat the purpose of "paradise? the point of paradise is living............
How would an immoral intelligence live?
It would live like the rest of us live, by existing, by creating, by learning, by experiencing. However I think you meant to ask....would an immortal intelligence get bored?
Well that would depend, first of all God does not have physical limitations, He exists in a dimension that is incredibly dynamic, God is a Creator, He can literally create WORLDS (not just things), worlds, any world He wants...be accompanied by any thing and anyone He wants...
Basically God doesn't have a choice anyhow, since God is "eternal" it really doesn't matter if He gets bored or not, but this is just speculating, there is no way to be able to capture the mind of God, with full knowledge that is, or full knowledge of where or how God resides and how He feels about it....God may love it, may hate it, I believe the question is irrelevant to the meaning of eternal consciousness.

Are those really the questions you feel are unchallenged?

I think what you are having problems with is the Theistic conceptions of God which basically come down to two different origins or theories.....
That God is separate from His creations, in other words God is not you, not me, not an animal, not a tree but He is an actual Entity who creates exactly what we see the way we see it and resides in the spiritual dimension, "He is our God and we are His people" sort of concept.....which is INDIVIDUALITY.

Then you have the more eastern conceptions of God, that God is indeed everything and all consciousness, a person, an animal, a tree ect.... that He simply encompasses all and is in all, in other words God is everything experiencing itself, there is no distinction between God and creation. God is no longer a Being that exists "outside", He is everything, the good and the bad, both right an wrong, both darkness and light, both the temper and the temptee ect ect...

This second conception strips away the concept of individuality for me, and defeats the purpose of religion and spirituality all together, I know some people may disagree with that, but it's true if you really get down to it.....as there really would be no individuality or spirituality, those things would just be illusions, and I don't think that is true.
This seems to be what I see you struggle and argue with over and over in all your posts, is that about accurate?
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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8/26/2016 12:34:46 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 12:25:24 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:
Again, i am plagued by this thought. Why would an immortal consciousness / sentience want immortality?

This also debunks many religious views for me. Heaven? What is Heaven? What is paradise if i cannot live? How would an immoral intelligence live? Will coincidentally by some kind of mortality, or finite existence.
I will explain more from comments and critiques, but i just feel this notion is sorta unchallenged... so, my belief feels unchallenged at this point and i don't like that.

To be honest you really presented no point, had you actually presented one I could address it adequately, up until now you merely just shared your personal feelings how an immortal Entity could feel..... that's not much to work with.

Perhaps clear your point up by asking me a another question, which is why I cut your post, these are the questions you asked you feel are "unchallenged"...

What is Heaven?
Heaven is an afterlife, and existence beyond the grave. It's many things, not just one thing.
What is paradise if I cannot live?
Who said you could not live lol? doesn't the defeat the purpose of "paradise? the point of paradise is living............
How would an immoral intelligence live?
It would live like the rest of us live, by existing, by creating, by learning, by experiencing. However I think you meant to ask....would an immortal intelligence get bored?
Well that would depend, first of all God does not have physical limitations, He exists in a dimension that is incredibly dynamic, God is a Creator, He can literally create WORLDS (not just things), worlds, any world He wants...be accompanied by any thing and anyone He wants...
Basically God doesn't have a choice anyhow, since God is "eternal" it really doesn't matter if He gets bored or not, but this is just speculating, there is no way to be able to capture the mind of God, with full knowledge that is, or full knowledge of where or how God resides and how He feels about it....God may love it, may hate it, I believe the question is irrelevant to the meaning of eternal consciousness.

Are those really the questions you feel are unchallenged?

I think what you are having problems with is the Theistic conceptions of God which basically come down to two different origins or theories.....
That God is separate from His creations, in other words God is not you, not me, not an animal, not a tree but He is an actual Entity who creates exactly what we see the way we see it and resides in the spiritual dimension, "He is our God and we are His people" sort of concept.....which is INDIVIDUALITY.

Then you have the more eastern conceptions of God, that God is indeed everything and all consciousness, a person, an animal, a tree ect.... that He simply encompasses all and is in all, in other words God is everything experiencing itself, there is no distinction between God and creation. God is no longer a Being that exists "outside", He is everything, the good and the bad, both right an wrong, both darkness and light, both the temper and the temptee ect ect...

This second conception strips away the concept of individuality for me, and defeats the purpose of religion and spirituality all together, I know some people may disagree with that, but it's true if you really get down to it.....as there really would be no individuality or spirituality, those things would just be illusions, and I don't think that is true.
This seems to be what I see you struggle and argue with over and over in all your posts, is that about accurate?
All of the CLAIMS you make are the same CLAIMS made by those who CLAIM without evidence that their gods exist.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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8/26/2016 12:38:23 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:
Again, i am plagued by this thought. Why would an immortal consciousness / sentience want immortality?


The question is incoherent, in other words it doesn't matter whether or not an immortal consciousness would "want" immortality.
The question becomes, what would an immortal consciousness do with immortality, it makes more sense.

This is why i believe we are both immortal and mortal.

Which is it, can't have both, not in a literal sense anyways. Maybe a pretend sense..

". In essence, i always say we are all gods and this is what i mean from it. Technically not the exact definition overall, but the definition when it comes to you. You have been forever. It just depends on what character you are and what world allows your manifestation into it. "


Your fragments of this conception are not really new, it's just recycled, once you realize that you may just jump on board with some eastern religion lol.

I will explain more from comments and critiques, but i just feel this notion is sorta unchallenged... so, my belief feels unchallenged at this point and i don't like that.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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8/26/2016 12:47:32 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 12:34:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/26/2016 12:25:24 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:
Again, i am plagued by this thought. Why would an immortal consciousness / sentience want immortality?

This also debunks many religious views for me. Heaven? What is Heaven? What is paradise if i cannot live? How would an immoral intelligence live? Will coincidentally by some kind of mortality, or finite existence.
I will explain more from comments and critiques, but i just feel this notion is sorta unchallenged... so, my belief feels unchallenged at this point and i don't like that.

To be honest you really presented no point, had you actually presented one I could address it adequately, up until now you merely just shared your personal feelings how an immortal Entity could feel..... that's not much to work with.

Perhaps clear your point up by asking me a another question, which is why I cut your post, these are the questions you asked you feel are "unchallenged"...

What is Heaven?
Heaven is an afterlife, and existence beyond the grave. It's many things, not just one thing.
What is paradise if I cannot live?
Who said you could not live lol? doesn't the defeat the purpose of "paradise? the point of paradise is living............
How would an immoral intelligence live?
It would live like the rest of us live, by existing, by creating, by learning, by experiencing. However I think you meant to ask....would an immortal intelligence get bored?
Well that would depend, first of all God does not have physical limitations, He exists in a dimension that is incredibly dynamic, God is a Creator, He can literally create WORLDS (not just things), worlds, any world He wants...be accompanied by any thing and anyone He wants...
Basically God doesn't have a choice anyhow, since God is "eternal" it really doesn't matter if He gets bored or not, but this is just speculating, there is no way to be able to capture the mind of God, with full knowledge that is, or full knowledge of where or how God resides and how He feels about it....God may love it, may hate it, I believe the question is irrelevant to the meaning of eternal consciousness.

Are those really the questions you feel are unchallenged?

I think what you are having problems with is the Theistic conceptions of God which basically come down to two different origins or theories.....
That God is separate from His creations, in other words God is not you, not me, not an animal, not a tree but He is an actual Entity who creates exactly what we see the way we see it and resides in the spiritual dimension, "He is our God and we are His people" sort of concept.....which is INDIVIDUALITY.

Then you have the more eastern conceptions of God, that God is indeed everything and all consciousness, a person, an animal, a tree ect.... that He simply encompasses all and is in all, in other words God is everything experiencing itself, there is no distinction between God and creation. God is no longer a Being that exists "outside", He is everything, the good and the bad, both right an wrong, both darkness and light, both the temper and the temptee ect ect...

This second conception strips away the concept of individuality for me, and defeats the purpose of religion and spirituality all together, I know some people may disagree with that, but it's true if you really get down to it.....as there really would be no individuality or spirituality, those things would just be illusions, and I don't think that is true.
This seems to be what I see you struggle and argue with over and over in all your posts, is that about accurate?
All of the CLAIMS you make are the same CLAIMS made by those who CLAIM without evidence that their gods exist.

You don't know what evidence is, what evidence consists of in spirituality and refuse to learn so, therefore you are not qualified to discuss it, or make claims about it.

Evidence- broadly construed, is anything presented in support of an assertion.[1] This support may be strong or weak. The strongest type of evidence is that which provides direct proof of the truth of an assertion. At the other extreme is evidence that is merely consistent with an assertion but does not rule out other, contradictory assertions, as in circumstantial evidence.

In law, rules of evidence govern the types of evidence that are admissible in a legal proceeding. Types of legal evidence include testimony, documentary evidence, and physical evidence.

So....not only is there EVIDENCE for God, but overwhelmingly so, get real or go get new material, it's been years now one would expect you to grow up.
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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8/26/2016 12:57:40 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 12:47:32 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/26/2016 12:34:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/26/2016 12:25:24 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:
Again, i am plagued by this thought. Why would an immortal consciousness / sentience want immortality?

This also debunks many religious views for me. Heaven? What is Heaven? What is paradise if i cannot live? How would an immoral intelligence live? Will coincidentally by some kind of mortality, or finite existence.
I will explain more from comments and critiques, but i just feel this notion is sorta unchallenged... so, my belief feels unchallenged at this point and i don't like that.

To be honest you really presented no point, had you actually presented one I could address it adequately, up until now you merely just shared your personal feelings how an immortal Entity could feel..... that's not much to work with.

Perhaps clear your point up by asking me a another question, which is why I cut your post, these are the questions you asked you feel are "unchallenged"...

What is Heaven?
Heaven is an afterlife, and existence beyond the grave. It's many things, not just one thing.
What is paradise if I cannot live?
Who said you could not live lol? doesn't the defeat the purpose of "paradise? the point of paradise is living............
How would an immoral intelligence live?
It would live like the rest of us live, by existing, by creating, by learning, by experiencing. However I think you meant to ask....would an immortal intelligence get bored?
Well that would depend, first of all God does not have physical limitations, He exists in a dimension that is incredibly dynamic, God is a Creator, He can literally create WORLDS (not just things), worlds, any world He wants...be accompanied by any thing and anyone He wants...
Basically God doesn't have a choice anyhow, since God is "eternal" it really doesn't matter if He gets bored or not, but this is just speculating, there is no way to be able to capture the mind of God, with full knowledge that is, or full knowledge of where or how God resides and how He feels about it....God may love it, may hate it, I believe the question is irrelevant to the meaning of eternal consciousness.

Are those really the questions you feel are unchallenged?

I think what you are having problems with is the Theistic conceptions of God which basically come down to two different origins or theories.....
That God is separate from His creations, in other words God is not you, not me, not an animal, not a tree but He is an actual Entity who creates exactly what we see the way we see it and resides in the spiritual dimension, "He is our God and we are His people" sort of concept.....which is INDIVIDUALITY.

Then you have the more eastern conceptions of God, that God is indeed everything and all consciousness, a person, an animal, a tree ect.... that He simply encompasses all and is in all, in other words God is everything experiencing itself, there is no distinction between God and creation. God is no longer a Being that exists "outside", He is everything, the good and the bad, both right an wrong, both darkness and light, both the temper and the temptee ect ect...

This second conception strips away the concept of individuality for me, and defeats the purpose of religion and spirituality all together, I know some people may disagree with that, but it's true if you really get down to it.....as there really would be no individuality or spirituality, those things would just be illusions, and I don't think that is true.
This seems to be what I see you struggle and argue with over and over in all your posts, is that about accurate?
All of the CLAIMS you make are the same CLAIMS made by those who CLAIM without evidence that their gods exist.

You don't know what evidence is, what evidence consists of in spirituality and refuse to learn so, therefore you are not qualified to discuss it, or make claims about it.
Spirituality is what? Anything that exists in your imagination? Yeah I'll pass.
Evidence- broadly construed, is anything presented in support of an assertion.[1] This support may be strong or weak. The strongest type of evidence is that which provides direct proof of the truth of an assertion. At the other extreme is evidence that is merely consistent with an assertion but does not rule out other, contradictory assertions, as in circumstantial evidence.
But more importantly the imagination of the human that wants to believe his imagination is evidence.
In law, rules of evidence govern the types of evidence that are admissible in a legal proceeding. Types of legal evidence include testimony, documentary evidence, and physical evidence.
And imagination doesn't qualify. Too bad.
So....not only is there EVIDENCE for God, but overwhelmingly so, get real or go get new material, it's been years now one would expect you to grow up.
Once again your imagination is not evidence of anything, much less the god you imagine exists.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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8/26/2016 1:26:04 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 12:57:40 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/26/2016 12:47:32 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/26/2016 12:34:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/26/2016 12:25:24 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:

All of the CLAIMS you make are the same CLAIMS made by those who CLAIM without evidence that their gods exist.

You don't know what evidence is, what evidence consists of in spirituality and refuse to learn so, therefore you are not qualified to discuss it, or make claims about it.
Spirituality is what? Anything that exists in your imagination? Yeah I'll pass.

Well let's see Bulpoop, one would think after a dozen or so times you would get it, that it would stick, you should be able to answer this question from me if I posed it.....unless you have some memory loss or learning disability? please explain so I can work with your problem....but here it goes again, only next time I will expect you to remember it.
Spirituality is the practical application of spiritual principles/laws, it's the act of putting spiritual beliefs in action.
So again.... what is it we are observing Bul? is that imagination or did I say principles and laws?

Evidence- broadly construed, is anything presented in support of an assertion.[1] This support may be strong or weak. The strongest type of evidence is that which provides direct proof of the truth of an assertion. At the other extreme is evidence that is merely consistent with an assertion but does not rule out other, contradictory assertions, as in circumstantial evidence.
But more importantly the imagination of the human that wants to believe his imagination is evidence.

That is your claim. Spiritual principles and laws have nothing to do with what "I imagine", I'm too bust to day dream Bully. But, I don't expect anything serious from you, you've spoken your agenda many times blantantly, I only reply for the readers. You have shown no sign of comradery, only bigotry and deception.

In law, rules of evidence govern the types of evidence that are admissible in a legal proceeding. Types of legal evidence include testimony, documentary evidence, and physical evidence.
And imagination doesn't qualify. Too bad.

You can't read, try that again.

So....not only is there EVIDENCE for God, but overwhelmingly so, get real or go get new material, it's been years now one would expect you to grow up.
Once again your imagination is not evidence of anything, much less the god you imagine exists.

That's your claim, when you assert a claim you provide something other than a claim.
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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8/26/2016 1:40:06 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 1:26:04 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/26/2016 12:57:40 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/26/2016 12:47:32 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/26/2016 12:34:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/26/2016 12:25:24 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:

All of the CLAIMS you make are the same CLAIMS made by those who CLAIM without evidence that their gods exist.

You don't know what evidence is, what evidence consists of in spirituality and refuse to learn so, therefore you are not qualified to discuss it, or make claims about it.
Spirituality is what? Anything that exists in your imagination? Yeah I'll pass.

Well let's see Bulpoop, one would think after a dozen or so times you would get it, that it would stick, you should be able to answer this question from me if I posed it.....unless you have some memory loss or learning disability? please explain so I can work with your problem....but here it goes again, only next time I will expect you to remember it.
Spirituality is the practical application of spiritual principles/laws, it's the act of putting spiritual beliefs in action.
So again.... what is it we are observing Bul? is that imagination or did I say principles and laws?
I'm most definitely reading your claim that your imaginary non existent pretend world actually exists. I find it amusing just as I do the fanciful stories my grandchildren tell me. But I can't bring myself to believe in the 5yr olds friends splinter and moon.

Evidence- broadly construed, is anything presented in support of an assertion.[1] This support may be strong or weak. The strongest type of evidence is that which provides direct proof of the truth of an assertion. At the other extreme is evidence that is merely consistent with an assertion but does not rule out other, contradictory assertions, as in circumstantial evidence.
But more importantly the imagination of the human that wants to believe his imagination is evidence.

That is your claim. Spiritual principles and laws have nothing to do with what "I imagine", I'm too bust to day dream Bully. But, I don't expect anything serious from you, you've spoken your agenda many times blantantly, I only reply for the readers. You have shown no sign of comradery, only bigotry and deception.

In law, rules of evidence govern the types of evidence that are admissible in a legal proceeding. Types of legal evidence include testimony, documentary evidence, and physical evidence.
And imagination doesn't qualify. Too bad.

You can't read, try that again.

So....not only is there EVIDENCE for God, but overwhelmingly so, get real or go get new material, it's been years now one would expect you to grow up.
Once again your imagination is not evidence of anything, much less the god you imagine exists.

That's your claim, when you assert a claim you provide something other than a claim.
Why?? You can't and neither can anybody who claims that their particular god exists.
Prove to me that Quetzalcoatl exists or conversely prove to me that Quetzalcoatl doesn't exist.
Have fun honey.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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8/26/2016 2:42:30 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 1:26:04 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
That is your claim. Spiritual principles and laws have nothing to do with what "I imagine", I'm too bust to day dream Bully. But, I don't expect anything serious from you, you've spoken your agenda many times blantantly, I only reply for the readers. You have shown no sign of comradery, only bigotry and deception.
I must stop just skimming posts.
Now little thing provide evidence (I know how hard that is for you) of my bigotry and deception.
Please understand just how hilarious I will find your attempts, if you ever make such an attempt.
If you fail to do so I shan't be surprised, given the fact that you and a concept called honesty have never ever met.
But please give it your very best try.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Outplayz
Posts: 1,262
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8/26/2016 9:29:43 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 7:46:21 AM, janesix wrote:
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:
Again, i am plagued by this thought. Why would an immortal consciousness / sentience want immortality? Maybe if it didn't know social interaction, maybe if it didn't know death, it can... but, if i simply speculate on an immortal intelligence being true, well, it would know these things. I only have our collective intelligence to compare.

This also debunks many religious views for me. Heaven? What is Heaven? What is paradise if i cannot live? How would an immoral intelligence live? Will coincidentally by some kind of mortality, or finite existence. This is why i believe we are both immortal and mortal. I also feel the immoral setting is void of matter or physicality simply bc mortality would fill that manifestation. In essence, i always say we are all gods and this is what i mean from it. Technically not the exact definition overall, but the definition when it comes to you. You have been forever. It just depends on what character you are and what world allows your manifestation into it.

I will explain more from comments and critiques, but i just feel this notion is sorta unchallenged... so, my belief feels unchallenged at this point and i don't like that.

Maybe this immortal consciousness got so bored he has to fool himself into thinking he's mortal and forget forever for a while. He's just taking a nap.

I wouldn't say bored, for i don't think we can feel that like we do here. That is an emotion felt living. I am not saying in our immortal setting we are emotionless, i am saying we are everything, all our emotions, and just understand infinite. My belief is subjective. Although i would definitely want to sleep and dream, others may not. You may stay immortal for years after this life... however, i will always argue... knowing that you can sleep and experience lives... you will do it.

That is my argument here. Lets take the idea of god... why stay as all knowing and forever and hover above your creation when you can be in it? I also think, that beyond boredom... immortality is lonely. I don't know if i really stick to this speculation, but i have felt it (although drug induced - salvia) i felt it. I became god in infinite darkness... the first thing i did is scream out for my sister. It was eye opening at the very least. In that moment, i felt like i knew everything, my purpose, life, but i was all alone with these thoughts... to me, it sounds like this is the type of god most religious people have made. In which i say, they are failing to empathize with the type of god they are making. I happened to empathize, to which, i have added the idea of living vs. immortality... living always wins. Living a finite life. Fear of death, a finite line of living, is much different than knowing you are forever.
janesix
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8/26/2016 9:34:53 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 9:29:43 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 8/26/2016 7:46:21 AM, janesix wrote:
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:
Again, i am plagued by this thought. Why would an immortal consciousness / sentience want immortality? Maybe if it didn't know social interaction, maybe if it didn't know death, it can... but, if i simply speculate on an immortal intelligence being true, well, it would know these things. I only have our collective intelligence to compare.

This also debunks many religious views for me. Heaven? What is Heaven? What is paradise if i cannot live? How would an immoral intelligence live? Will coincidentally by some kind of mortality, or finite existence. This is why i believe we are both immortal and mortal. I also feel the immoral setting is void of matter or physicality simply bc mortality would fill that manifestation. In essence, i always say we are all gods and this is what i mean from it. Technically not the exact definition overall, bout the definition when it comes to you. You have been forever. It just depends on what character you are and what world allows your manifestation into it.

I will explain more from comments and critiques, but i just feel this notion is sorta unchallenged... so, my belief feels unchallenged at this point and i don't like that.

Maybe this immortal consciousness got so bored he has to fool himself into thinking he's mortal and forget forever for a while. He's just taking a nap.

I wouldn't say bored, for i don't think we can feel that like we do here. That is an emotion felt living. I am not saying in our immortal setting we are emotionless, i am saying we are everything, all our emotions, and just understand infinite. My belief is subjective. Although i would definitely want to sleep and dream, others may not. You may stay immortal for years after this life... however, i will always argue... knowing that you can sleep and experience lives... you will do it.

That is my argument here. Lets take the idea of god... why stay as all knowing and forever and hover above your creation when you can be in it? I also think, that beyond boredom... immortality is lonely. I don't know if i really stick to this speculation, but i have felt it (although drug induced - salvia) i felt it. I became god in infinite darkness... the first thing i did is scream out for my sister. It was eye opening at the very least. In that moment, i felt like i knew everything, my purpose, life, but i was all alone with these thoughts... to me, it sounds like this is the type of god most religious people have made. In which i say, they are failing to empathize with the type of god they are making. I happened to empathize, to which, i have added the idea of living vs. immortality... living always wins. Living a finite life. Fear of death, a finite line of living, is much different than knowing you are forever.
Yes, thus the need to fool yourself into thinking you are mortal. Atheism is the ultimate state, where even the idea of an immortal lone being is rejected.
Outplayz
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8/26/2016 9:38:03 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 9:54:43 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:
Why would an immortal consciousness / sentience want immortality?

I can only think of two reasons, Outie:

1) An eternal terror of death;

I actually think death is a creation to escape immortality. Think about it, if consciousness evolved first in an immaterial setting, void of physical matter... it would eventually see that using matter would be beneficial to what it imagines.

2) An awful lot of poorly-designed, failed projects. :D

I actually think everything is designed perfectly. I think everyone has a purpose and destiny that is true to them, their character. I don't spend much time analysis why some people are the way they are, to me that is just what they are until they change and turn into something else. Everyone has that capacity, however, that would make it impossible and very burdensome for me to focus on. I am a "god" in my eyes, and everyone around me... that is huge. I have to figure out infinite within myself, and that will take time.

I would rather focus on me and the ones around me. People i can reach, or some that i can't, but with the idea of making this world a paradise. That is subjective bc some find paradise in very odd and weird things, but we can figure it out... Everything has a reason for what it is. If this world allows a character to enter, it will. If we can take that platform away, it won't manifest here anymore. That is sorta a proof of mine, but it's also logical. Make a pill that eliminates depression, you won't have that character in this world anymore, or at an extinct level.
Outplayz
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8/26/2016 9:49:31 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 9:34:53 PM, janesix wrote:
At 8/26/2016 9:29:43 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 8/26/2016 7:46:21 AM, janesix wrote:
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:
Again, i am plagued by this thought. Why would an immortal consciousness / sentience want immortality? Maybe if it didn't know social interaction, maybe if it didn't know death, it can... but, if i simply speculate on an immortal intelligence being true, well, it would know these things. I only have our collective intelligence to compare.

This also debunks many religious views for me. Heaven? What is Heaven? What is paradise if i cannot live? How would an immoral intelligence live? Will coincidentally by some kind of mortality, or finite existence. This is why i believe we are both immortal and mortal. I also feel the immoral setting is void of matter or physicality simply bc mortality would fill that manifestation. In essence, i always say we are all gods and this is what i mean from it. Technically not the exact definition overall, bout the definition when it comes to you. You have been forever. It just depends on what character you are and what world allows your manifestation into it.

I will explain more from comments and critiques, but i just feel this notion is sorta unchallenged... so, my belief feels unchallenged at this point and i don't like that.

Maybe this immortal consciousness got so bored he has to fool himself into thinking he's mortal and forget forever for a while. He's just taking a nap.

I wouldn't say bored, for i don't think we can feel that like we do here. That is an emotion felt living. I am not saying in our immortal setting we are emotionless, i am saying we are everything, all our emotions, and just understand infinite. My belief is subjective. Although i would definitely want to sleep and dream, others may not. You may stay immortal for years after this life... however, i will always argue... knowing that you can sleep and experience lives... you will do it.

That is my argument here. Lets take the idea of god... why stay as all knowing and forever and hover above your creation when you can be in it? I also think, that beyond boredom... immortality is lonely. I don't know if i really stick to this speculation, but i have felt it (although drug induced - salvia) i felt it. I became god in infinite darkness... the first thing i did is scream out for my sister. It was eye opening at the very least. In that moment, i felt like i knew everything, my purpose, life, but i was all alone with these thoughts... to me, it sounds like this is the type of god most religious people have made. In which i say, they are failing to empathize with the type of god they are making. I happened to empathize, to which, i have added the idea of living vs. immortality... living always wins. Living a finite life. Fear of death, a finite line of living, is much different than knowing you are forever.
Yes, thus the need to fool yourself into thinking you are mortal. Atheism is the ultimate state, where even the idea of an immortal lone being is rejected.

Yes. I believe in that. Fool yourself just makes it sound kinda negative, but that is just me... i would rather say manifest into a human life to live an experience. Our brains are the way they are for the very reason you say... fool yourself, or make sure you don't remember, in order to live your experience. That is why i have found some of my most interesting conversations with a specific person that has a mental illness. This makes absolute sense to him.

I think like an atheist, i look at experiences like an atheist, i am an atheist in regards to organized religion. Atheism is just a mind set to me... i wouldn't say ultimate anything... but, i value its ideals tremendously. I think this world would be very different without atheism. To rejecting, i don't reject my spiritual side... i truly believe it... but that has been a detriment to me if i wanted to be in the profession of figuring out reality. Spirituality and believing in one path being true takes away from that bc my mind is in a different place. However, i am what i was born to be. My message may be flawed, but it will be a message of spirituality. I've picked my side, as small as my belief is, i think it will become the ultimate "spiritual" belief when the dust settles. At which point, i will still debate atheists, i just think it will be a much better debate than the crap i read today in regards to religion. Purely bc i know a lot of atheists have this sort of belief in them.
RuvDraba
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8/26/2016 10:14:39 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 9:38:03 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 8/26/2016 9:54:43 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:
Why would an immortal consciousness / sentience want immortality?
I can only think of two reasons, Outie:
1) An eternal terror of death;
I actually think death is a creation to escape immortality.
Death is an excellent bulldozer of impediments to change. :)

2) An awful lot of poorly-designed, failed projects. :D
I actually think everything is designed perfectly.
For everyone, Outie, or just for you?

I feel very privileged to have been born healthy and well-nourished, physically, socially and intellectually, in the time and place I was born. But that privilege came from the sacrifice of countless people born before me, who had it a lot harder, and made things better for me just by incrementally improving things for their children.

And a lot of people in the world -- most -- haven't seen all the benefits yet that I inherited for nothing.

I don't think everything is designed perfectly, Outie. I think our species is doing a truly remarkable job though, of redesigning it better than we found it, and we're doing a fair-but-not-great job of sharing those benefits so our whole species can take a wonderful journey together.

So if it feels to you like it was always perfect, then perhaps that's a sign of a lot of good people having done a lot of good things so tirelessly that it now feels ordinary and invisible. :D
Outplayz
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8/26/2016 10:40:34 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 10:14:39 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/26/2016 9:38:03 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 8/26/2016 9:54:43 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:
Why would an immortal consciousness / sentience want immortality?
I can only think of two reasons, Outie:
1) An eternal terror of death;
I actually think death is a creation to escape immortality.
Death is an excellent bulldozer of impediments to change. :)

Yes, it will be used for this purpose. I just hope death won't become too destructive this time around... bc, i want my futurist reality, not a post-apocalypse type world. But, hey, i can find a way to have fun in either outcome.

2) An awful lot of poorly-designed, failed projects. :D
I actually think everything is designed perfectly.
For everyone, Outie, or just for you?

Truly, i hate answering for everyone, but yes... for everyone. But, see, i don't know their ultimate purposes. I believe in a dualistic type of reality... as in, i am the character behind the gamer. I have no idea what game others are playing and why, all i know is that i choose to play this game with them. My reasons are most likely family and friends, i'm still figuring it out, but as of now, they are two important realities in my life. So is understanding this platform and selling this platform. Music has also been a creation of mine, and my professions that have shown me so much fun.

Then, there is the dark... i have been through some crap in life i wouldn't wish on anyone. Let's just say, if torture is the most painful physical pain one can feel, i have felt emotional torture in many ways, defeated it, but... been there. I might have to even fight it again... who knows, but i know i will win... that is just who i am, a god in my own eyes. That makes me responsible, accountable, and zealous to make this world (or the world around me) paradise. Ask most friends and acquaintances... i think i believe this so much that it manifests in my personality. You will always have a good time if i am around... well most the time anyways, i can be a downer sometimes :)

This is all because i trust my "higher power" ... essentially me, i came here, so i will finish it. However, i think there are many different "gods" ... there are gods of nothing. Manifested into a vegetable body. There are gods of the ultimate trolls, manifested into a pyro that starts a fire... i see their character, but have no idea why they chose to come here. Maybe some don't even chose to come here... Evil can be a punishment to the ones that were evil. Manifesting a person into a broken home... getting abused, tortured, etc... by the person they harmed before... but, more so, i believe people choose to manifest into those realities... hey, look at the worlds fetishes, people will do some weird things. But, if one is not prepared for manifesting into a better and strong reality... they can even accidentally manifest into something... to me, there are many reasons, but whatever this world allows can happen.

To me the world is like a video game disk with its characters... it has rules, but beyond that, you can manifest what you want into this reality. So, the people aren't perfect, and their purposes may not be perfect... that this reality to me is perfect for what it is.
Outplayz
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8/29/2016 3:32:01 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 12:25:24 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:

What is Heaven?
Heaven is an afterlife, and existence beyond the grave. It's many things, not just one thing.

I agree, however, as we will see... i think i look at the differences a bit differently. I believe it isn't one thing either, i believe whatever we can imagine exists in a world that allows it to exist. Essentially, i believe in a multiversish type of belief, where everything could be possible in some universe / platform.

What is paradise if I cannot live?
Who said you could not live lol? doesn't the defeat the purpose of "paradise? the point of paradise is living............

Let me clarify what i mean "to live." I am much better at explaining my ideas metaphorically / through analogy; just fyi so you don't think i mean it is literally a certain way i explain.

If you are one being, immortal and forever... you are essentially stuck in one reality or image. Let's say in this one reality you can change your image and platform, well, then you are still stuck as one "identity," as in, one character / consciousness. This would be a trap, only bc you know of life and death. At the same time, you know everything ... best way to illustrate this is looking at a Music cd... you can look at the cd and know all about it, the band, what to expect, so on... but the only way to live it is by playing the cd. That is what i feel we will become. In our immortality we will look at this life like the disk, essentially knowing exactly why we came here and do what we do. But, the only way to get emotional enjoyment is by playing the cd / living the life.

As an immortal consciousness, you don't feel this. Not saying that you don't feel, just saying that living with a finite purpose / path is much more enjoyable than just understanding it.

How would an immoral intelligence live?
It would live like the rest of us live, by existing, by creating, by learning, by experiencing. However I think you meant to ask....would an immortal intelligence get bored?

This ties into what i was saying before... So, how would it live? I believe the way we live is by living in the "disk" per say. The disk is a human experience. I believe as immortal consciousness we have this ability, and we choose to use it, willingly manifesting into realities to live. So... it goes beyond boredom. I don't think you are really bored, but to play the character in a finite reality is more enjoyable than just thinking about it, looking at it, understanding it... those have emotions too, but nothing like actually hearing the song.

Well that would depend, first of all God does not have physical limitations, He exists in a dimension that is incredibly dynamic, God is a Creator, He can literally create WORLDS (not just things), worlds, any world He wants...be accompanied by any thing and anyone He wants...

I believe this,however i believe we are all this god. To our certain capacities, as in, not everyone is "superman" or a genius scientist per say... just like this life, you are some things and not some things and okay with it for the most part.

The creation of life is to live in it, so when you say "god" is dynamic, yes... i believe we are all dynamic and do not have any physical limitations in death, and in ways... in this life.

Basically God doesn't have a choice anyhow, since God is "eternal" it really doesn't matter if He gets bored or not, but this is just speculating, there is no way to be able to capture the mind of God, with full knowledge that is, or full knowledge of where or how God resides and how He feels about it....God may love it, may hate it, I believe the question is irrelevant to the meaning of eternal consciousness.

Why is it irrelevant? I am not boasting when i say this, but i have a special gift of understanding these implications, why should i not take advice in my own talents? To me it is a cop out to say, "god is beyond our understanding." Therefore, not trying to understand what it means to be god... my whole belief is based around the empathy i feel for a character such as the god you know, and i feel i have honed in quite well.

Are those really the questions you feel are unchallenged?

I think what you are having problems with is the Theistic conceptions of God which basically come down to two different origins or theories.....
That God is separate from His creations, in other words God is not you, not me, not an animal, not a tree but He is an actual Entity who creates exactly what we see the way we see it and resides in the spiritual dimension, "He is our God and we are His people" sort of concept.....which is INDIVIDUALITY.

I believe god is living in one creation. Whether it was created by god or another god, it is living in a creation. The only person i would say is a higher power to an individual is their own main source (their immortal consciousness) which will be their god in the end. I believe the concept of god is a sentient consciousness, which i believe... i believe there was a "first spark" to say the least that started what we call intelligence. But that is all god is, the first among the many.

Then you have the more eastern conceptions of God, that God is indeed everything and all consciousness, a person, an animal, a tree ect.... that He simply encompasses all and is in all, in other words God is everything experiencing itself, there is no distinction between God and creation. God is no longer a Being that exists "outside", He is everything, the good and the bad, both right an wrong, both darkness and light, both the temper and the temptee ect ect...

If you look at god the way i do, this also makes sense for we evolved from this "first spark" ... so you can argue it is a part of everything i guess.

This second conception strips away the concept of individuality for me, and defeats the purpose of religion and spirituality all together, I know some people may disagree with that, but it's true if you really get down to it.....as there really would be no individuality or spirituality, those things would just be illusions, and I don't think that is true.
This seems to be what I see you struggle and argue with over and over in all your posts, is that about accurate?

Essentially what i try to promote is that we are all "gods." I don't struggle with the idea bc i understand it, i struggle in why people don't see how powerful they are. Again though, i don't have one of those Deepak Chopra type spiritual beliefs bc i believe everyone is what they are. An evil person is a manifestation of an opposite of good immortal that has been evolving in an immortal setting. If a person is negative, and just can't get out of it... hates life, wants to troll others, so on, i can only tell them about what i think good is... they follow or not bc they are powerful in what they are... i don't have to like it, but they are gods too.
Outplayz
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8/29/2016 3:32:08 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 12:38:23 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:
Again, i am plagued by this thought. Why would an immortal consciousness / sentience want immortality?


The question is incoherent, in other words it doesn't matter whether or not an immortal consciousness would "want" immortality.
The question becomes, what would an immortal consciousness do with immortality, it makes more sense.

I think i have explained this in my previous post, if not, let me know and i will expand. I have explained what an immortal would do with immortality, and what it means to "live" rather than just be forever.

This is why i believe we are both immortal and mortal.

Which is it, can't have both, not in a literal sense anyways. Maybe a pretend sense..

You can have both. Living in the disk is your mortality. Immortality is your ultimate form however, so i see what you are getting at... i am saying mortality is your living, not that you are only mortal, and immortality is your higher self / your true self.

". In essence, i always say we are all gods and this is what i mean from it. Technically not the exact definition overall, but the definition when it comes to you. You have been forever. It just depends on what character you are and what world allows your manifestation into it. "


Your fragments of this conception are not really new, it's just recycled, once you realize that you may just jump on board with some eastern religion lol.

I will explain more from comments and critiques, but i just feel this notion is sorta unchallenged... so, my belief feels unchallenged at this point and i don't like that.

Of course i have fragments of other teachings, that is why i respect religion when it comes to its people. Those were spiritual people to that came to this world to set the platform of what needed to happen. I believe everything has a purpose, but just bc it has a purpose, it doesn't mean that the entire message is truth. So, everything i say isn't truth either. I change around my belief a lot, but within the main message, i believe there is truth. The main message is the same as every main message you see in religion and or spirituality... i am just expanding on it. Also, no one can explain the angle like i can... they can say similar things, but won't say it like i do. Is there something special in that... i don't know yet... but, first, i have to help you understand where i am coming from... so critique the crap out of my belief, i will prove it is a strong one at the very least.
bigotry
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8/29/2016 3:37:04 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:
Again, i am plagued by this thought. Why would an immortal consciousness / sentience want immortality? Maybe if it didn't know social interaction, maybe if it didn't know death, it can... but, if i simply speculate on an immortal intelligence being true, well, it would know these things. I only have our collective intelligence to compare.

This also debunks many religious views for me. Heaven? What is Heaven? What is paradise if i cannot live? How would an immoral intelligence live? Will coincidentally by some kind of mortality, or finite existence. This is why i believe we are both immortal and mortal. I also feel the immoral setting is void of matter or physicality simply bc mortality would fill that manifestation. In essence, i always say we are all gods and this is what i mean from it. Technically not the exact definition overall, but the definition when it comes to you. You have been forever. It just depends on what character you are and what world allows your manifestation into it.

I will explain more from comments and critiques, but i just feel this notion is sorta unchallenged... so, my belief feels unchallenged at this point and i don't like that.

Its impossible to want something you already have.
Outplayz
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8/29/2016 3:44:33 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/29/2016 3:37:04 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:
Again, i am plagued by this thought. Why would an immortal consciousness / sentience want immortality? Maybe if it didn't know social interaction, maybe if it didn't know death, it can... but, if i simply speculate on an immortal intelligence being true, well, it would know these things. I only have our collective intelligence to compare.

This also debunks many religious views for me. Heaven? What is Heaven? What is paradise if i cannot live? How would an immoral intelligence live? Will coincidentally by some kind of mortality, or finite existence. This is why i believe we are both immortal and mortal. I also feel the immoral setting is void of matter or physicality simply bc mortality would fill that manifestation. In essence, i always say we are all gods and this is what i mean from it. Technically not the exact definition overall, but the definition when it comes to you. You have been forever. It just depends on what character you are and what world allows your manifestation into it.

I will explain more from comments and critiques, but i just feel this notion is sorta unchallenged... so, my belief feels unchallenged at this point and i don't like that.

Its impossible to want something you already have.

Yes. However, i know that mortality is a very dear creation of an immortal intelligence(s). I believe we are this immortal intelligence, so yes... we want immortality until it dawns on us. At that point, all of this will make sense. Why we live. Living as an immortal is far less enjoyable than living as a mortal with experiences. Not saying immortality isn't, but knowing that it can manifest into a "life" finite and fleeting, it will escape its immortality for the extra benefits mortality brings. Death and mortality would be a very logical creation of an immortal intelligence, and since we are logical beings, it is likely this creation has happened and we are living in it.
bigotry
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8/29/2016 3:51:08 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/29/2016 3:44:33 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 8/29/2016 3:37:04 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:
Again, i am plagued by this thought. Why would an immortal consciousness / sentience want immortality? Maybe if it didn't know social interaction, maybe if it didn't know death, it can... but, if i simply speculate on an immortal intelligence being true, well, it would know these things. I only have our collective intelligence to compare.

This also debunks many religious views for me. Heaven? What is Heaven? What is paradise if i cannot live? How would an immoral intelligence live? Will coincidentally by some kind of mortality, or finite existence. This is why i believe we are both immortal and mortal. I also feel the immoral setting is void of matter or physicality simply bc mortality would fill that manifestation. In essence, i always say we are all gods and this is what i mean from it. Technically not the exact definition overall, but the definition when it comes to you. You have been forever. It just depends on what character you are and what world allows your manifestation into it.

I will explain more from comments and critiques, but i just feel this notion is sorta unchallenged... so, my belief feels unchallenged at this point and i don't like that.

Its impossible to want something you already have.

Yes. However, i know that mortality is a very dear creation of an immortal intelligence(s). I believe we are this immortal intelligence, so yes... we want immortality until it dawns on us. At that point, all of this will make sense. Why we live. Living as an immortal is far less enjoyable than living as a mortal with experiences. Not saying immortality isn't, but knowing that it can manifest into a "life" finite and fleeting, it will escape its immortality for the extra benefits mortality brings. Death and mortality would be a very logical creation of an immortal intelligence, and since we are logical beings, it is likely this creation has happened and we are living in it.

why should we be inherently immortal and then create mortality and how?
Outplayz
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8/29/2016 4:08:48 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/29/2016 3:51:08 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/29/2016 3:44:33 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 8/29/2016 3:37:04 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:
Again, i am plagued by this thought. Why would an immortal consciousness / sentience want immortality? Maybe if it didn't know social interaction, maybe if it didn't know death, it can... but, if i simply speculate on an immortal intelligence being true, well, it would know these things. I only have our collective intelligence to compare.

This also debunks many religious views for me. Heaven? What is Heaven? What is paradise if i cannot live? How would an immoral intelligence live? Will coincidentally by some kind of mortality, or finite existence. This is why i believe we are both immortal and mortal. I also feel the immoral setting is void of matter or physicality simply bc mortality would fill that manifestation. In essence, i always say we are all gods and this is what i mean from it. Technically not the exact definition overall, but the definition when it comes to you. You have been forever. It just depends on what character you are and what world allows your manifestation into it.

I will explain more from comments and critiques, but i just feel this notion is sorta unchallenged... so, my belief feels unchallenged at this point and i don't like that.

Its impossible to want something you already have.

Yes. However, i know that mortality is a very dear creation of an immortal intelligence(s). I believe we are this immortal intelligence, so yes... we want immortality until it dawns on us. At that point, all of this will make sense. Why we live. Living as an immortal is far less enjoyable than living as a mortal with experiences. Not saying immortality isn't, but knowing that it can manifest into a "life" finite and fleeting, it will escape its immortality for the extra benefits mortality brings. Death and mortality would be a very logical creation of an immortal intelligence, and since we are logical beings, it is likely this creation has happened and we are living in it.

why should we be inherently immortal and then create mortality and how?

It's all a leap of logic and you know it. I see mortality as a creation for an immortal intelligence to be able to live and have various experiences. So, looking backwards, mortality would be a logical manifestation for an immaterial consciousness / intelligence. Living shows me that immortality is possible. The reason living gives me this faith is bc of what we are and what we create with our imaginations. We live through creativity, creation, and escape even now... i don't think it is too far of a leap to say that there is a higher form. Now, i agree i am leaping to say it is immortal, i don't know that for sure, it can just be another mortal existence, but back to my previous point, immortality would make sense if mortality exists... i am speculating. Plus, it would have infinite time, with infinite time it can find a way to create / manifest into a mortal form. Yet... even humans (finite) have this ability. We however are going the other way, trying to create immortality... and, if we don't end ourselves, i believe this will be possible. It should be possible if we inherently (immortal) had this ability... i am predicting.

The how however, it would be likely if an immortal intelligence is immaterial, it can create from thought... from imagination. Imagine a story teller closing their eyes and manifesting into their story... well, their story isn't just them, it will have other characters... therefore, other characters being created. Is everyone immortal, i don't think so... you have probably talked to some - they know they will sleep forever once their character is done. Essentially, i believe there was a spark of sentience - how exactly - i am not sure, but from that first spark... more and more have been created... we are just a part of an infinite evolution of intelligence.
bigotry
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8/29/2016 4:26:28 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
Its impossible to want something you already have.

Yes. However, i know that mortality is a very dear creation of an immortal intelligence(s). I believe we are this immortal intelligence, so yes... we want immortality until it dawns on us. At that point, all of this will make sense. Why we live. Living as an immortal is far less enjoyable than living as a mortal with experiences. Not saying immortality isn't, but knowing that it can manifest into a "life" finite and fleeting, it will escape its immortality for the extra benefits mortality brings. Death and mortality would be a very logical creation of an immortal intelligence, and since we are logical beings, it is likely this creation has happened and we are living in it.

why should we be inherently immortal and then create mortality and how?

It's all a leap of logic and you know it. I see mortality as a creation for an immortal intelligence to be able to live and have various experiences. So, looking backwards, mortality would be a logical manifestation for an immaterial consciousness / intelligence. Living shows me that immortality is possible. The reason living gives me this faith is bc of what we are and what we create with our imaginations. We live through creativity, creation, and escape even now... i don't think it is too far of a leap to say that there is a higher form. Now, i agree i am leaping to say it is immortal, i don't know that for sure, it can just be another mortal existence, but back to my previous point, immortality would make sense if mortality exists... i am speculating. Plus, it would have infinite time, with infinite time it can find a way to create / manifest into a mortal form. Yet... even humans (finite) have this ability. We however are going the other way, trying to create immortality... and, if we don't end ourselves, i believe this will be possible. It should be possible if we inherently (immortal) had this ability... i am predicting.


The how however, it would be likely if an immortal intelligence is immaterial, it can create from thought... from imagination. Imagine a story teller closing their eyes and manifesting into their story... well, their story isn't just them, it will have other characters... therefore, other characters being created. Is everyone immortal, i don't think so... you have probably talked to some - they know they will sleep forever once their character is done. Essentially, i believe there was a spark of sentience - how exactly - i am not sure, but from that first spark... more and more have been created... we are just a part of an infinite evolution of intelligence.

I'm a little unsure though on what your saying. Why should we say mortality is a manifestation of our immortal selves when we have only one instance of someone not dying aka Jesus. From a biblical standpoint there is also Enoch and Elijah but they were taken by God. Not by their own will but by a completely different force. I'm not sure on what grounds you can start to begin to say all humans have the capability because why wouldn't people simply become immortal? Why would it take anytime at all to figure it out? There are some things I'm familiar in this line of thinking that come from occult sources and Kabalistic ideals but all the sources of these ideals are dead and buried.
Outplayz
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8/29/2016 5:07:30 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/29/2016 4:26:28 AM, bigotry wrote:
Its impossible to want something you already have.


I'm a little unsure though on what your saying. Why should we say mortality is a manifestation of our immortal selves when we have only one instance of someone not dying aka Jesus. From a biblical standpoint there is also Enoch and Elijah but they were taken by God. Not by their own will but by a completely different force.

I should start out and say i am obviously not religious, but i do use religious text as understanding / analysis of spiritual thought. I don't look at religious text as any kind of "final" answer, more so as clues. If i am right, and we are escaping immortality to live an experience we are not suppose to know we are immortal in order to fulfill our experience. That doesn't however mean there can't be clues or thoughts, we are these immortals to begin with, and some really powerful, so it makes sense that we would think about that power and not completely forget it / feel it. This is how i look at people that wrote religious text, powerful spiritual humans that further give clues to our power. Our difference is that i haven't stopped. I still see these people in musicians, philosophers, artists, etc. They show me all possibilities. One of a few reasons why i don't respect its organization... i think religion has a duty to show people how powerful they are... and, at the same time i don't. It is not religion that will do it, it is the next person that understands spirituality in a higher level that will do it, when the platform is ready.

I'm not sure on what grounds you can start to begin to say all humans have the capability because why wouldn't people simply become immortal?

This world has its rules... it is a progression. Just like the first spark of intelligence wouldn't have known everything, it worked and evolved into further knowledge. In its progression it created, and the creations were primitive. This is why i believe if our type of sentience is to manifest into a reality, every character needs to be played out to create the platform for the more advanced sentience to enter. Even the primitive / early immortals need to live too. They need to play out their role in the world our sentience manifests to create experience. You can't just jump to the end of the story... well, you can, but why would you? This isn't that type of world. But, like i said earlier... i am fairly certain we will create something similar to our immortality while we are here. This is a prediction, but seems like a reasonable one by observing our progression now. However, there can be alternative futures too... i hope we go the technology route and not the apocalyptic ... we have the capacity for either one, and immortal characters willing to play either one.

Why would it take anytime at all to figure it out?

I think i answered this, but i will illsutrate it for you too. A video game creator will not create "League 3" ... it simply can't. It needs to create to first to set the platform to get to 3. The characters need to establish the rules and world, and from there you can create the 2, 3, fourth versions. And, just as the gamer is playing the character in the game... we are the gamer playing the character in this life. Why? Well... you don't have to. As an immortal you would like at this life like the video game disk... you will know everything on the disk, what the game is about, what you will do, what character you want to play... but just looking at the disk knowing all of it is much different than actually playing it. I hope this analogy makes it a little more understandable.

There are some things I'm familiar in this line of thinking that come from occult sources and Kabalistic ideals but all the sources of these ideals are dead and buried.

I don't label anything that i hear about spirituality. I believe we are all divine with infinite purpose. I believe every person knows their own reality better than i do, so all i can do is learn. However, in the end i am sure i have my own source to go to... my own "kingdom" that i belong to. I may visit those that believed in Valhalla, and i may visit those that believe in Heaven, but i would just be visiting your world. Not all are like me, and i don't say that to boast, i just have the capacity to understand i have my own. If anything, i just want people to be proud of their kingdom, but also understand that others are just as proud of theirs... Immortality doesn't have to be exclusive to just one. There is no such thing as one... if there was, it would be like my analogy before... a god looking at the game it created and never getting to play it and find the enjoyment from its creation to the fullest.
bigotry
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8/29/2016 5:51:11 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
I should start out and say i am obviously not religious, but i do use religious text as understanding / analysis of spiritual thought. I don't look at religious text as any kind of "final" answer, more so as clues. If i am right, and we are escaping immortality to live an experience we are not suppose to know we are immortal in order to fulfill our experience. That doesn't however mean there can't be clues or thoughts, we are these immortals to begin with, and some really powerful, so it makes sense that we would think about that power and not completely forget it / feel it. This is how i look at people that wrote religious text, powerful spiritual humans that further give clues to our power. Our difference is that i haven't stopped. I still see these people in musicians, philosophers, artists, etc. They show me all possibilities. One of a few reasons why i don't respect its organization... i think religion has a duty to show people how powerful they are... and, at the same time i don't. It is not religion that will do it, it is the next person that understands spirituality in a higher level that will do it, when the platform is ready.

By and large, Christianity is all about how powerful we all are not. What I would say the clues are in your laid out discussion here is simply the spirit that all people have in them. This indeed is immortal though I do think its possible for a spirit to actually be destroyed however that's merely my opinion. When we look around the world at various religions or teachings rather, most are aimed at a better understanding of spirituality and spiritual things. The only thing that sets Christianity apart however is that Jesus is the pinnacle of all spiritual things and that the event that occurred with his death and resurrection was meant to bring people to an enlightened state that through him all people can achieve immortality. Theres more to it than that but for the purpose of this context I think ill leave it at that. I know as you said you are not religious and probably reject the idea Jesus is God, however I think its important to examine this particular claim because its the claim of all claims. There are other groups that make claims on how to reach the highest point of your spirit but most are based on a "hidden knowledge" if you will heavily relying on a gnostic movement and culture. I don't find that if something this important were true one would have to rely on anyone or do anything to find out what it is and how to achieve it. Otherwise certain persons would simply still be alive basking in their own glory.

I'm not sure on what grounds you can start to begin to say all humans have the capability because why wouldn't people simply become immortal?

This world has its rules... it is a progression. Just like the first spark of intelligence wouldn't have known everything, it worked and evolved into further knowledge. In its progression it created, and the creations were primitive. This is why i believe if our type of sentience is to manifest into a reality, every character needs to be played out to create the platform for the more advanced sentience to enter. Even the primitive / early immortals need to live too. They need to play out their role in the world our sentience manifests to create experience. You can't just jump to the end of the story... well, you can, but why would you? This isn't that type of world. But, like i said earlier... i am fairly certain we will create something similar to our immortality while we are here. This is a prediction, but seems like a reasonable one by observing our progression now. However, there can be alternative futures too... i hope we go the technology route and not the apocalyptic ... we have the capacity for either one, and immortal characters willing to play either one.

I don't know, I think theres enough scientific evidence to show its just not possible for flesh to be immortal.

Why would it take anytime at all to figure it out?

I think i answered this, but i will illsutrate it for you too. A video game creator will not create "League 3" ... it simply can't. It needs to create to first to set the platform to get to 3. The characters need to establish the rules and world, and from there you can create the 2, 3, fourth versions. And, just as the gamer is playing the character in the game... we are the gamer playing the character in this life. Why? Well... you don't have to. As an immortal you would like at this life like the video game disk... you will know everything on the disk, what the game is about, what you will do, what character you want to play... but just looking at the disk knowing all of it is much different than actually playing it. I hope this analogy makes it a little more understandable.

So essentially it would take time because one has to go through various experiences to achieve it? Is this a proper understanding of your analogy?

There are some things I'm familiar in this line of thinking that come from occult sources and Kabalistic ideals but all the sources of these ideals are dead and buried.

I don't label anything that i hear about spirituality. I believe we are all divine with infinite purpose. I believe every person knows their own reality better than i do, so all i can do is learn. However, in the end i am sure i have my own source to go to... my own "kingdom" that i belong to. I may visit those that believed in Valhalla, and i may visit those that believe in Heaven, but i would just be visiting your world. Not all are like me, and i don't say that to boast, i just have the capacity to understand i have my own. If anything, i just want people to be proud of their kingdom, but also understand that others are just as proud of theirs... Immortality doesn't have to be exclusive to just one. There is no such thing as one... if there was, it would be like my analogy before... a god looking at the game it created and never getting to play it and find the enjoyment from its creation to the fullest.

But do you think that reality then is a subjective or objective thing?
Outplayz
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8/29/2016 6:53:00 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/29/2016 5:51:11 AM, bigotry wrote:

By and large, Christianity is all about how powerful we all are not.

I believe in the rest of what you wrote. I believe Jesus is god, i believe Christianity is a very valuable spiritual text. However, i also believe it is being used, it is being poisoned by those that want power. Imagine all teachers, imagine the pope... they are human, i am sure they enjoy their position of power. A position they gained using words from the Bible. I do "not" believe in kneeling before anyone. I do not believe in worshiping anyone.. these are negatives to me - to give your power to someone else is like a drug addict giving up their power to their drug, their god. Now, all are powerful in their purpose but obviously all aren't powerful, and that is a different discussion to this question... but, in whole... i do not believe Christianity is about how powerful we are "not" ... I may read it differently, but when i read it ... i feel like what Jesus was, it teaches me how i am also a god. Furthermore, i connect with the idea that Jesus didn't like what religion had turned to. I don't know if these really happened, and that doesn't matter bc Jesus' story makes me feel powerful, accountable, respectful of myself. I will never worship anyone, even myself... but i will hold my power very seriously and understand the accountability it has put over me head and to the human race around me. I believe your religion has been hijacked by those that like what power feels like... which is okay, and it was necessary in the right time... but no more in my humble opinion. It is time to stand in front of those telling you to kneel, those telling you that you are not powerful. At least that is how i interpret the Bible... a book teaching me how strong and divine we all are, how strong i am spiritually and in reality, how there is a purpose for everyone. Am i reading it wrong? Am i reading religious text how it wasn't suppose to be read, or can i be reading it correctly? It definitely doesn't feel wrong, it feels free to understand how free i am, how free we all are... but, most importantly, how accountable we need to be for what we are.

I don't know, I think theres enough scientific evidence to show its just not possible for flesh to be immortal.

It is a prediction that i don't think is illogical. Considering what we have done today, things unimaginable for earlier humans, forecasting that more can be on the way isn't too far fetched. First, we have to understand everything about our bodies, are vessels... from there, can we tweak them? Do you really think, if we make it that far out, this is not a possibility? It is a prediction from my belief bc it correlates to what i think we are, but also kinda an obvious prediction / leap of its possibility.

So essentially it would take time because one has to go through various experiences to achieve it? Is this a proper understanding of your analogy?

Yes. I believe in a forward progression, however, i am lost to the "it" you are talking about. What do you mean by "achieve it" ... or what are you thinking i mean by achieving something... All i mean is that i believe consciousness, intelligence, sentience ... evolved - first immaterial and void of matter, gave meaning to time, gave meaning to space, etc. Through its evolution many other immortals were created... eventually worlds, eventually realities, so on. So yes, i believe it all takes time. It takes time to evolve and i predict we will keep evolving in our creations, bc essentially ... that is what we are and have the capacity to do.

But do you think that reality then is a subjective or objective thing?

I believe there are objective elements to our reality... the biggest being what it is. For instance, science. Remember my analogy, i look at this world like a video game disk... a very advanced disk, an amazing disk, but just another reality. It has its objective rules. For the most part, i believe the reality is objective in its rules... as in, no human parted the sea, literally. No human literally went to heaven riding on a horse. Horses can't fly. Unless... there is something in this reality that switches our science to something else momentarily (every 666 years or something ;p)... myths are events that can't happen in this world, but can be true in another.

Subjectivity comes in when you look at us. For instance, all of our beliefs in what "paradise" will be is subjective. To me, paradise would be to live another world as an immortal vampire (yet finite bc i can die)... Does that sound like a paradise to you? Maybe, maybe we will be friends in the same guild, we may be enemies, or never meet in that type of reality... it all depends on what character you pick. It is not up to me to tell you what to be... you will figure this character out in this life, you will live this life to reach that character and become it... i will do either the same, a similar path, or a total opposite. When you look at the "disk" as an outside observer... you know everything, so it makes sense... but, when you play it... you follow what your character needs to do. This subjectivity is huge... this is just one analogy of a person like me that thinks fantasy. Some think drama, some like action, some like horror, some like nothing other than the world they live in... some may be characters only exclusive to the world. It is impossible to figure out every ones spirituality bc i believe it's highly subjective to the observer. The best thing you can do is figure and love yourself, those around you (they very well may be a part of your kingdom), those in this world (you want this world to be comfortable while you are here)... and that last point, i see objectivity in being good. In regards to its progression. Evil can't rule bc it doesn't progress, it is by nature selfish and destructive... yet, it is still a god we created. When you look at the disk and understand the world it doesn't matter much, but in the game it is a thorn in your side to objectives... but, it also brings a lot of emotions with it that we treasure while experiencing life when we defeat it.

Everything to me has its purpose. Every element is perfect. By understanding the power is within you and not in the hands of something else... it makes you accountable for you power. This isn't what we are right now, this is why we are at war with each other... we are mentally drug addicts. Worshiping, fiending our mental drug of choice. It's funny how rehab centers teach how bad it is to give up your power to a drug, yet are so willing to give up their soul to a "higher power." I don't know, i see this side of the world. It isn't something i can just show you... you have to see it for yourself. It is fleeting however... technology and world connection is setting the next platform. In my belief, the more evolved intelligence's can't come here until there is a set platform for them to use... well, technology will help that out. This is the progression i am talking about and yes, it takes time for all to live.
sam_white
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8/29/2016 7:06:51 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:
Again, i am plagued by this thought. Why would an immortal consciousness / sentience want immortality? Maybe if it didn't know social interaction, maybe if it didn't know death, it can... but, if i simply speculate on an immortal intelligence being true, well, it would know these things. I only have our collective intelligence to compare.

This also debunks many religious views for me. Heaven? What is Heaven? What is paradise if i cannot live? How would an immoral intelligence live? Will coincidentally by some kind of mortality, or finite existence. This is why i believe we are both immortal and mortal. I also feel the immoral setting is void of matter or physicality simply bc mortality would fill that manifestation. In essence, i always say we are all gods and this is what i mean from it. Technically not the exact definition overall, but the definition when it comes to you. You have been forever. It just depends on what character you are and what world allows your manifestation into it.

I will explain more from comments and critiques, but i just feel this notion is sorta unchallenged... so, my belief feels unchallenged at this point and i don't like that. : :

Our Creator, whether he is an immortal sentience or not, created the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil that all his people have been experiencing since they woke up in a body. They were told to listen to the voice and obey it's commands but instead, they listened to each other's voices and blamed each other and whatever they witnessed as good or evil.

Our Creator knew that the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil would make his characters believe they were real people while he was using characters called prophets and saints to reveal the Truth.

Now that I know the Truth, morality has nothing to do with the Truth other than it's only temporary until all the inhabitants who believe they are real people living on a real earth have perished.
Outplayz
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8/29/2016 7:26:13 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/29/2016 7:06:51 AM, sam_white wrote:
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:
Again, i am plagued by this thought. Why would an immortal consciousness / sentience want immortality? Maybe if it didn't know social interaction, maybe if it didn't know death, it can... but, if i simply speculate on an immortal intelligence being true, well, it would know these things. I only have our collective intelligence to compare.

This also debunks many religious views for me. Heaven? What is Heaven? What is paradise if i cannot live? How would an immoral intelligence live? Will coincidentally by some kind of mortality, or finite existence. This is why i believe we are both immortal and mortal. I also feel the immoral setting is void of matter or physicality simply bc mortality would fill that manifestation. In essence, i always say we are all gods and this is what i mean from it. Technically not the exact definition overall, but the definition when it comes to you. You have been forever. It just depends on what character you are and what world allows your manifestation into it.

I will explain more from comments and critiques, but i just feel this notion is sorta unchallenged... so, my belief feels unchallenged at this point and i don't like that. : :

Our Creator, whether he is an immortal sentience or not, created the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil that all his people have been experiencing since they woke up in a body. They were told to listen to the voice and obey it's commands but instead, they listened to each other's voices and blamed each other and whatever they witnessed as good or evil.

You have no idea how beautiful i see this story. You may think it is dark, but i see it talking about our progression. This is a story of the "first" source branching out and creating more than one... and also its opposite. Finally becoming a social god, seeing the beauty of mortality with its creations, and the dark side of its creation. This is why i respect the Bible, however, i clearly see the story... not that it was literal, well... it could have been literal, but not on earth. Maybe the reason we can't find Eden is bc it didn't happen here... then i would believe the story more literally. However, it is a beautiful story of an immortal discovering mortality.

Our Creator knew that the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil would make his characters believe they were real people while he was using characters called prophets and saints to reveal the Truth.

I call prophets and saints people that are here to keep the balance and hope, when hope fades. Religion and spirituality is highly impactful on the human race. We need these "prophets" that come in many forms, artists, musicians, scientists, inspirational people that open our minds. Then, there are the ones that "think" they know it, they can remember being immortal... possibily a trick in their own minds, however, their words can carry for years. Why can't everyone be like this? Remember? Understand? Well, i would gladly give this sort of thinking up if one really wants it, if i could. In the end, you can't hate a musician for being a prodigy, you tend to respect them and fall in love with what they provide the world.

Now that I know the Truth, morality has nothing to do with the Truth other than it's only temporary until all the inhabitants who believe they are real people living on a real earth have perished.

I'm sorry. But i do not share in this idea, and you must see it is a bit dark. If you know the truth, then your job is to show people how powerful they are, bc if you know the truth, you know we are all immortals, gods. Your job is to help them remember, to help them understand that they choose who they are in this life, they are accountable for the character they manifested in this reality. But ultimately, they will be okay. One that knows what this is, knows to help everyone around them prepare for paradise. This takes listening bc not all people are spiritual and believe in an afterlife paradise... some believe in this world, they are to be cherished bc they are holding us together... they are the ones that remind us this world is paradise to them and we must help them realize it. Just like i will help anyone figure out an external paradise... this world we live in is someones paradise, and i will never tell them they are wrong.
sam_white
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8/29/2016 7:35:28 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/29/2016 7:26:13 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 8/29/2016 7:06:51 AM, sam_white wrote:
At 8/26/2016 4:27:29 AM, Outplayz wrote:
Again, i am plagued by this thought. Why would an immortal consciousness / sentience want immortality? Maybe if it didn't know social interaction, maybe if it didn't know death, it can... but, if i simply speculate on an immortal intelligence being true, well, it would know these things. I only have our collective intelligence to compare.

This also debunks many religious views for me. Heaven? What is Heaven? What is paradise if i cannot live? How would an immoral intelligence live? Will coincidentally by some kind of mortality, or finite existence. This is why i believe we are both immortal and mortal. I also feel the immoral setting is void of matter or physicality simply bc mortality would fill that manifestation. In essence, i always say we are all gods and this is what i mean from it. Technically not the exact definition overall, but the definition when it comes to you. You have been forever. It just depends on what character you are and what world allows your manifestation into it.

I will explain more from comments and critiques, but i just feel this notion is sorta unchallenged... so, my belief feels unchallenged at this point and i don't like that. : :

Our Creator, whether he is an immortal sentience or not, created the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil that all his people have been experiencing since they woke up in a body. They were told to listen to the voice and obey it's commands but instead, they listened to each other's voices and blamed each other and whatever they witnessed as good or evil.

You have no idea how beautiful i see this story. You may think it is dark, but i see it talking about our progression. This is a story of the "first" source branching out and creating more than one... and also its opposite. Finally becoming a social god, seeing the beauty of mortality with its creations, and the dark side of its creation. This is why i respect the Bible, however, i clearly see the story... not that it was literal, well... it could have been literal, but not on earth. Maybe the reason we can't find Eden is bc it didn't happen here... then i would believe the story more literally. However, it is a beautiful story of an immortal discovering mortality.

Our Creator knew that the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil would make his characters believe they were real people while he was using characters called prophets and saints to reveal the Truth.

I call prophets and saints people that are here to keep the balance and hope, when hope fades. Religion and spirituality is highly impactful on the human race. We need these "prophets" that come in many forms, artists, musicians, scientists, inspirational people that open our minds. Then, there are the ones that "think" they know it, they can remember being immortal... possibily a trick in their own minds, however, their words can carry for years. Why can't everyone be like this? Remember? Understand? Well, i would gladly give this sort of thinking up if one really wants it, if i could. In the end, you can't hate a musician for being a prodigy, you tend to respect them and fall in love with what they provide the world.

Now that I know the Truth, morality has nothing to do with the Truth other than it's only temporary until all the inhabitants who believe they are real people living on a real earth have perished.

I'm sorry. But i do not share in this idea, and you must see it is a bit dark. If you know the truth, then your job is to show people how powerful they are, bc if you know the truth, you know we are all immortals, gods. Your job is to help them remember, to help them understand that they choose who they are in this life, they are accountable for the character they manifested in this reality. But ultimately, they will be okay. One that knows what this is, knows to help everyone around them prepare for paradise. This takes listening bc not all people are spiritual and believe in an afterlife paradise... some believe in this world, they are to be cherished bc they are holding us together... they are the ones that remind us this world is paradise to them and we must help them realize it. Just like i will help anyone figure out an external paradise... this world we live in is someones paradise, and i will never tell them they are wrong. : :

Human beings have no power whatsoever. They think they are real people made of matter but they will learn who they are when they awaken in new bodies in Paradise.

I have met many people like you who are spiritually lost but at least they know that what they perceive as reality is different than someone else's reality. They have become aware of consciousness being different than the illusions they observe. But those who listen to the voice of God and testify to every word, vision, dream and spoken analogy learn exactly what's going on and how we're created. Those who were chosen to listen to these testimonies will learn the knowledge that was revealed to us through those testimonies but only if they believe it.

I have had the opportunity to share thoughts with you in the past and after reading your thoughts, I know for sure you have been deceived by other spiritually lost people. The "Good News" is that you won't be lost when you awaken in new bodies in Paradise.

Jeremiah 31
31: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
32: not like the covenant which I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant which they broke, though I was their husband, says the LORD.
33: But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34: And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, `Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."