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Myth and reality

keithprosser
Posts: 1,919
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8/29/2016 7:41:01 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
JPR Williams was a rugby full back and medical doctor who was famous for his bravery on the field of play for club and country during the 1970s. The story goes that in one match after having been 'raked' across the face by an opponent's studs he stitched his own wounds and returned to the game.

It's not true, but it is widely repeated and believed by very many rugby fans across the world. It seems to have its roots in game where JPR was raked and forced to get stitches, but he didn't do the stitches himself nor return to the game - that was added later, perhaps initially as a sort of 'Chuck Norris' sort of joke about the iron man of Welsh rugby.

George Washington never did chop down a cherry tree, but I think it is (or was) widely belived to be a historical fact. I'd be interested to learn if Americans in 2016 still take that legend seriously. The story can be traced to a fictional episide invented by GW's biographer Mason Locke Weems.

The two cases are different. Someone can well write the tale of JPR believing it to be true, but Weems knew what he wrote wasn't true because he admits to simply making it up.

The question is wheter the writers of the Gospels are like Weems making up stories themselves or are they like repeaters of the JPR Williams legend, writing down what they honestly believed is the truth.

It makes a difference. I have been told the JPR story by people who are completely honest and sincere who are not liars. But Weems told a deliberate and knowingly lied. Which side do we plece the Gospel writers?
sam_white
Posts: 49
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8/29/2016 7:44:04 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/29/2016 7:41:01 AM, keithprosser wrote:
JPR Williams was a rugby full back and medical doctor who was famous for his bravery on the field of play for club and country during the 1970s. The story goes that in one match after having been 'raked' across the face by an opponent's studs he stitched his own wounds and returned to the game.

It's not true, but it is widely repeated and believed by very many rugby fans across the world. It seems to have its roots in game where JPR was raked and forced to get stitches, but he didn't do the stitches himself nor return to the game - that was added later, perhaps initially as a sort of 'Chuck Norris' sort of joke about the iron man of Welsh rugby.

George Washington never did chop down a cherry tree, but I think it is (or was) widely belived to be a historical fact. I'd be interested to learn if Americans in 2016 still take that legend seriously. The story can be traced to a fictional episide invented by GW's biographer Mason Locke Weems.

The two cases are different. Someone can well write the tale of JPR believing it to be true, but Weems knew what he wrote wasn't true because he admits to simply making it up.

The question is wheter the writers of the Gospels are like Weems making up stories themselves or are they like repeaters of the JPR Williams legend, writing down what they honestly believed is the truth.

It makes a difference. I have been told the JPR story by people who are completely honest and sincere who are not liars. But Weems told a deliberate and knowingly lied. Which side do we plece the Gospel writers? : :

If you believe the writings called Matthew, Mark, Luke and John as gospels, then you will never believe the true gospel that I preach to God's chosen believers.
Willows
Posts: 2,031
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8/29/2016 10:12:29 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/29/2016 7:41:01 AM, keithprosser wrote:
JPR Williams was a rugby full back and medical doctor who was famous for his bravery on the field of play for club and country during the 1970s. The story goes that in one match after having been 'raked' across the face by an opponent's studs he stitched his own wounds and returned to the game.

It's not true, but it is widely repeated and believed by very many rugby fans across the world. It seems to have its roots in game where JPR was raked and forced to get stitches, but he didn't do the stitches himself nor return to the game - that was added later, perhaps initially as a sort of 'Chuck Norris' sort of joke about the iron man of Welsh rugby.

George Washington never did chop down a cherry tree, but I think it is (or was) widely belived to be a historical fact. I'd be interested to learn if Americans in 2016 still take that legend seriously. The story can be traced to a fictional episide invented by GW's biographer Mason Locke Weems.

The two cases are different. Someone can well write the tale of JPR believing it to be true, but Weems knew what he wrote wasn't true because he admits to simply making it up.

The question is wheter the writers of the Gospels are like Weems making up stories themselves or are they like repeaters of the JPR Williams legend, writing down what they honestly believed is the truth.

It makes a difference. I have been told the JPR story by people who are completely honest and sincere who are not liars. But Weems told a deliberate and knowingly lied. Which side do we plece the Gospel writers?

I think the Gospel writers would be completely off the scale of credibility. Considering that that the scriptures were written over a period of 1500 years by some 40 authors unknown. Also, in those times, just about everyone was extremely superstitious and story tellers would have had a field day in exaggerating the bejesus from hearsay accounts then writing the myths. These myths were then translated a few hundred years later and no doubt had a bit more colour added.

So, what we end up with is a book with absolutely no credibility, which is no big deal really since what it represents has absolutely no credibility either.
sam_white
Posts: 49
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8/29/2016 10:35:57 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/29/2016 10:12:29 AM, Willows wrote:
At 8/29/2016 7:41:01 AM, keithprosser wrote:
JPR Williams was a rugby full back and medical doctor who was famous for his bravery on the field of play for club and country during the 1970s. The story goes that in one match after having been 'raked' across the face by an opponent's studs he stitched his own wounds and returned to the game.

It's not true, but it is widely repeated and believed by very many rugby fans across the world. It seems to have its roots in game where JPR was raked and forced to get stitches, but he didn't do the stitches himself nor return to the game - that was added later, perhaps initially as a sort of 'Chuck Norris' sort of joke about the iron man of Welsh rugby.

George Washington never did chop down a cherry tree, but I think it is (or was) widely belived to be a historical fact. I'd be interested to learn if Americans in 2016 still take that legend seriously. The story can be traced to a fictional episide invented by GW's biographer Mason Locke Weems.

The two cases are different. Someone can well write the tale of JPR believing it to be true, but Weems knew what he wrote wasn't true because he admits to simply making it up.

The question is wheter the writers of the Gospels are like Weems making up stories themselves or are they like repeaters of the JPR Williams legend, writing down what they honestly believed is the truth.

It makes a difference. I have been told the JPR story by people who are completely honest and sincere who are not liars. But Weems told a deliberate and knowingly lied. Which side do we plece the Gospel writers?

I think the Gospel writers would be completely off the scale of credibility. Considering that that the scriptures were written over a period of 1500 years by some 40 authors unknown. Also, in those times, just about everyone was extremely superstitious and story tellers would have had a field day in exaggerating the bejesus from hearsay accounts then writing the myths. These myths were then translated a few hundred years later and no doubt had a bit more colour added.

So, what we end up with is a book with absolutely no credibility, which is no big deal really since what it represents has absolutely no credibility either. : :

That's why the only way to the Truth is to listen to the voice of God and obey his commands. The Truth will reveal exactly how you're created.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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8/29/2016 12:34:22 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/29/2016 10:35:57 AM, sam_white wrote:
At 8/29/2016 10:12:29 AM, Willows wrote:
At 8/29/2016 7:41:01 AM, keithprosser wrote:
JPR Williams was a rugby full back and medical doctor who was famous for his bravery on the field of play for club and country during the 1970s. The story goes that in one match after having been 'raked' across the face by an opponent's studs he stitched his own wounds and returned to the game.

It's not true, but it is widely repeated and believed by very many rugby fans across the world. It seems to have its roots in game where JPR was raked and forced to get stitches, but he didn't do the stitches himself nor return to the game - that was added later, perhaps initially as a sort of 'Chuck Norris' sort of joke about the iron man of Welsh rugby.

George Washington never did chop down a cherry tree, but I think it is (or was) widely belived to be a historical fact. I'd be interested to learn if Americans in 2016 still take that legend seriously. The story can be traced to a fictional episide invented by GW's biographer Mason Locke Weems.

The two cases are different. Someone can well write the tale of JPR believing it to be true, but Weems knew what he wrote wasn't true because he admits to simply making it up.

The question is wheter the writers of the Gospels are like Weems making up stories themselves or are they like repeaters of the JPR Williams legend, writing down what they honestly believed is the truth.

It makes a difference. I have been told the JPR story by people who are completely honest and sincere who are not liars. But Weems told a deliberate and knowingly lied. Which side do we plece the Gospel writers?

I think the Gospel writers would be completely off the scale of credibility. Considering that that the scriptures were written over a period of 1500 years by some 40 authors unknown. Also, in those times, just about everyone was extremely superstitious and story tellers would have had a field day in exaggerating the bejesus from hearsay accounts then writing the myths. These myths were then translated a few hundred years later and no doubt had a bit more colour added.

So, what we end up with is a book with absolutely no credibility, which is no big deal really since what it represents has absolutely no credibility either. : :

That's why the only way to the Truth is to listen to the voice of God and obey his commands. The Truth will reveal exactly how you're created.

Who, by happy coincidence, is the deliverer of that "voice of god", BoG?
Willows
Posts: 2,031
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8/29/2016 12:40:40 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/29/2016 10:35:57 AM, sam_white wrote:
At 8/29/2016 10:12:29 AM, Willows wrote:
At 8/29/2016 7:41:01 AM, keithprosser wrote:
JPR Williams was a rugby full back and medical doctor who was famous for his bravery on the field of play for club and country during the 1970s. The story goes that in one match after having been 'raked' across the face by an opponent's studs he stitched his own wounds and returned to the game.

It's not true, but it is widely repeated and believed by very many rugby fans across the world. It seems to have its roots in game where JPR was raked and forced to get stitches, but he didn't do the stitches himself nor return to the game - that was added later, perhaps initially as a sort of 'Chuck Norris' sort of joke about the iron man of Welsh rugby.

George Washington never did chop down a cherry tree, but I think it is (or was) widely belived to be a historical fact. I'd be interested to learn if Americans in 2016 still take that legend seriously. The story can be traced to a fictional episide invented by GW's biographer Mason Locke Weems.

The two cases are different. Someone can well write the tale of JPR believing it to be true, but Weems knew what he wrote wasn't true because he admits to simply making it up.

The question is wheter the writers of the Gospels are like Weems making up stories themselves or are they like repeaters of the JPR Williams legend, writing down what they honestly believed is the truth.

It makes a difference. I have been told the JPR story by people who are completely honest and sincere who are not liars. But Weems told a deliberate and knowingly lied. Which side do we plece the Gospel writers?

I think the Gospel writers would be completely off the scale of credibility. Considering that that the scriptures were written over a period of 1500 years by some 40 authors unknown. Also, in those times, just about everyone was extremely superstitious and story tellers would have had a field day in exaggerating the bejesus from hearsay accounts then writing the myths. These myths were then translated a few hundred years later and no doubt had a bit more colour added.

So, what we end up with is a book with absolutely no credibility, which is no big deal really since what it represents has absolutely no credibility either. : :

That's why the only way to the Truth is to listen to the voice of God and obey his commands. The Truth will reveal exactly how you're created.

What you mean to say is that you are a JW.
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
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8/29/2016 12:46:01 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/29/2016 10:35:57 AM, sam_white

Scroll on.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
keithprosser
Posts: 1,919
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8/29/2016 1:13:59 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/29/2016 10:12:29 AM, Willows wrote:
I think the Gospel writers would be completely off the scale of credibility. Considering that that the scriptures were written over a period of 1500 years by some 40 authors unknown. Also, in those times, just about everyone was extremely superstitious and story tellers would have had a field day in exaggerating the bejesus from hearsay accounts then writing the myths. These myths were then translated a few hundred years later and no doubt had a bit more colour added.

So, what we end up with is a book with absolutely no credibility, which is no big deal really since what it represents has absolutely no credibility either.

I was referring specifically to the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and the other one, (Ringo?), rather than the Bible as a whole.

As an atheist I automatically discount any possiblilty of the miraculous stuff begin true, but 2000 years ago it would not have seemed so incredible. The question I asked is a valid one - did MML+J make it up or did they write down what they knew was false or what they believed was true?

My view on the historical aspects pf the OT I have said elsewhere - I think that the 'history' in the OT is a deliberate fiction written with little or no regard toward objectivity. IMO, it was deliberately composed to provide exiled Jews with a sustaining fantasy, not as an impartial text book. So does the same apply to the writers of the Gospels, or did they believe what they wrote was true? I don't think it is obvious which.
sam_white
Posts: 49
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8/29/2016 1:50:16 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/29/2016 12:34:22 PM, desmac wrote:
At 8/29/2016 10:35:57 AM, sam_white wrote:
At 8/29/2016 10:12:29 AM, Willows wrote:
At 8/29/2016 7:41:01 AM, keithprosser wrote:
JPR Williams was a rugby full back and medical doctor who was famous for his bravery on the field of play for club and country during the 1970s. The story goes that in one match after having been 'raked' across the face by an opponent's studs he stitched his own wounds and returned to the game.

It's not true, but it is widely repeated and believed by very many rugby fans across the world. It seems to have its roots in game where JPR was raked and forced to get stitches, but he didn't do the stitches himself nor return to the game - that was added later, perhaps initially as a sort of 'Chuck Norris' sort of joke about the iron man of Welsh rugby.

George Washington never did chop down a cherry tree, but I think it is (or was) widely belived to be a historical fact. I'd be interested to learn if Americans in 2016 still take that legend seriously. The story can be traced to a fictional episide invented by GW's biographer Mason Locke Weems.

The two cases are different. Someone can well write the tale of JPR believing it to be true, but Weems knew what he wrote wasn't true because he admits to simply making it up.

The question is wheter the writers of the Gospels are like Weems making up stories themselves or are they like repeaters of the JPR Williams legend, writing down what they honestly believed is the truth.

It makes a difference. I have been told the JPR story by people who are completely honest and sincere who are not liars. But Weems told a deliberate and knowingly lied. Which side do we plece the Gospel writers?

I think the Gospel writers would be completely off the scale of credibility. Considering that that the scriptures were written over a period of 1500 years by some 40 authors unknown. Also, in those times, just about everyone was extremely superstitious and story tellers would have had a field day in exaggerating the bejesus from hearsay accounts then writing the myths. These myths were then translated a few hundred years later and no doubt had a bit more colour added.

So, what we end up with is a book with absolutely no credibility, which is no big deal really since what it represents has absolutely no credibility either. : :

That's why the only way to the Truth is to listen to the voice of God and obey his commands. The Truth will reveal exactly how you're created.

Who, by happy coincidence, is the deliverer of that "voice of god", BoG? : :

The voice of God is the computing technology that our Creator used to create his simulation program of which we are involved. That same computing technology then processes God's stored thoughts ( similar to how computer programmers thoughts are stored ) into life experiences to the characters in the simulation.
sam_white
Posts: 49
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8/29/2016 1:52:10 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/29/2016 12:40:40 PM, Willows wrote:
At 8/29/2016 10:35:57 AM, sam_white wrote:
At 8/29/2016 10:12:29 AM, Willows wrote:
At 8/29/2016 7:41:01 AM, keithprosser wrote:
JPR Williams was a rugby full back and medical doctor who was famous for his bravery on the field of play for club and country during the 1970s. The story goes that in one match after having been 'raked' across the face by an opponent's studs he stitched his own wounds and returned to the game.

It's not true, but it is widely repeated and believed by very many rugby fans across the world. It seems to have its roots in game where JPR was raked and forced to get stitches, but he didn't do the stitches himself nor return to the game - that was added later, perhaps initially as a sort of 'Chuck Norris' sort of joke about the iron man of Welsh rugby.

George Washington never did chop down a cherry tree, but I think it is (or was) widely belived to be a historical fact. I'd be interested to learn if Americans in 2016 still take that legend seriously. The story can be traced to a fictional episide invented by GW's biographer Mason Locke Weems.

The two cases are different. Someone can well write the tale of JPR believing it to be true, but Weems knew what he wrote wasn't true because he admits to simply making it up.

The question is wheter the writers of the Gospels are like Weems making up stories themselves or are they like repeaters of the JPR Williams legend, writing down what they honestly believed is the truth.

It makes a difference. I have been told the JPR story by people who are completely honest and sincere who are not liars. But Weems told a deliberate and knowingly lied. Which side do we plece the Gospel writers?

I think the Gospel writers would be completely off the scale of credibility. Considering that that the scriptures were written over a period of 1500 years by some 40 authors unknown. Also, in those times, just about everyone was extremely superstitious and story tellers would have had a field day in exaggerating the bejesus from hearsay accounts then writing the myths. These myths were then translated a few hundred years later and no doubt had a bit more colour added.

So, what we end up with is a book with absolutely no credibility, which is no big deal really since what it represents has absolutely no credibility either. : :

That's why the only way to the Truth is to listen to the voice of God and obey his commands. The Truth will reveal exactly how you're created.

What you mean to say is that you are a JW. : :

The JW's and all religious people are nothing but heathens who have never heard the voice of God. Without hearing the voice of God, it's impossible to obey it's commands like us saints and prophets were forced to do.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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8/29/2016 3:31:28 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/29/2016 7:41:01 AM, keithprosser wrote:
JPR Williams was a rugby full back and medical doctor who was famous for his bravery on the field of play for club and country during the 1970s. The story goes that in one match after having been 'raked' across the face by an opponent's studs he stitched his own wounds and returned to the game.

It's not true, but it is widely repeated and believed by very many rugby fans across the world. It seems to have its roots in game where JPR was raked and forced to get stitches, but he didn't do the stitches himself nor return to the game - that was added later, perhaps initially as a sort of 'Chuck Norris' sort of joke about the iron man of Welsh rugby.

George Washington never did chop down a cherry tree, but I think it is (or was) widely belived to be a historical fact. I'd be interested to learn if Americans in 2016 still take that legend seriously. The story can be traced to a fictional episide invented by GW's biographer Mason Locke Weems.

The two cases are different. Someone can well write the tale of JPR believing it to be true, but Weems knew what he wrote wasn't true because he admits to simply making it up.

The question is wheter the writers of the Gospels are like Weems making up stories themselves or are they like repeaters of the JPR Williams legend, writing down what they honestly believed is the truth.

It makes a difference. I have been told the JPR story by people who are completely honest and sincere who are not liars. But Weems told a deliberate and knowingly lied. Which side do we plece the Gospel writers?

I agree. Theists generally attribute characters in myths as first hand witnesses thereby believing the myth is proven true.

Sometimes the character existed and sometimes the character is fictional. If the character was known to actually exist, they believe the proof is even more concrete. The logic goes like this: "The fact that George Washington existed, and was a first hand witness to himself chopping down the cherry tree (not hearsay), proves the story is true."