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Some questions for Atheists.

jesusismywarrior
Posts: 78
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8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?

- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?

- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?

- What happens when we die?

- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?

- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?

- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them? If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?

- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?

- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?

- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?

- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?
Mark 10:44-45 "44 and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. 45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
YUO
Posts: 44
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8/30/2016 1:06:57 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?

- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?

- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?

- What happens when we die?

- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?

- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?

- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them? If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?

- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?

- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?

- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?

- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing? : :

Some people don't have any patience to ask one question at a time. They want the entire book thrown at them.
jesusismywarrior
Posts: 78
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8/30/2016 1:11:43 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 1:06:57 PM, YUO wrote:
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?

- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?

- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?

- What happens when we die?

- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?

- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?

- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them? If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?

- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?

- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?

- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?

- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing? : :

Some people don't have any patience to ask one question at a time. They want the entire book thrown at them.

I can't ask a few simple questions to people of other beliefs now?
Mark 10:44-45 "44 and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. 45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
YUO
Posts: 44
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8/30/2016 1:13:28 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 1:11:43 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
At 8/30/2016 1:06:57 PM, YUO wrote:
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?

- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?

- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?

- What happens when we die?

- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?

- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?

- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them? If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?

- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?

- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?

- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?

- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing? : :

Some people don't have any patience to ask one question at a time. They want the entire book thrown at them.

I can't ask a few simple questions to people of other beliefs now? : :

You'll have more success in members responding to one question that ten or more. By using patience and asking one question at a time, you will get to know the members faster.
bulproof
Posts: 25,237
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8/30/2016 1:20:10 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?
By using my ability for independent, intelligent thought.
- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?
That which harms.
- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?
Morality is an opinion.
- What happens when we die?
That's it.
- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?
My life has the meaning I give it. My life's meaning is not my death like the meaning ascribed to the godbotherer.
- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?
TO which one of the thousands do you refer?
- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them? If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?
Is it the complexity of the universe you claim in support of this claim?
- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?
I'm unaware of anything you call nothing, is your nothing something, if so what is it?
- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?
No, I would advise you to test gravity by going to the highest building in your area and jumping off and on your way down ask your god to prevent gravity from smashing you into the ground. See which one is real.
- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?
Gods are a claim made by mankind without ANY evidentiary support ever, ergo the claim is false gods don't exist.
- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?
Show me nothing.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,221
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8/30/2016 1:22:17 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?

Ironically, an evangelical minister. Not because he did his job well, obviously.

- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?

Abuse of power.

- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?

Common betterment, personal freedoms. Flip side, abuse of power.

- What happens when we die?

Heart stops, brain function decreases, O2 levels in the blood drop, hypoxic convulsions...

- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?

Sure.

- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?

As currently described or in general? God as described by the various religions I am confident doesn't exist. God as something else might.

- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them?

Sure.

If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?

Sure. What do you find to be intelligently designed?

- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?

Again, sure, but I have the distinct feeling then when I ask "Where did God come from", you are just going to say "He was always there", but when I say "The universe in various forms was always there", you won't find that to be valid argumentation.

- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?

Sure, but you can test and verify those other things. They explain themselves.

- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?

Sure, but I don't believe any atheist has ever specifically benchmarked "sight" as the de facto assurance of existence, though it does go to credibility.

- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?

Assuming the Big Bang as we understand it was the only Big Bang. Though, again, if you get to say "God" was always there, I should be able to say "the universe" was always there, right?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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Chaosism
Posts: 2,663
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8/30/2016 1:29:23 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?

I've never believed in the existence of God.

- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?

The deliberate, unnecessary inflicting of suffering onto a being capable of suffering, or the utter disregard of the well-being of such a being.

- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?

I lean towards motivation/intentions (in accordance to the above) as my means of moral judgment. I don't believe morality is anything but a subjective assessment.

- What happens when we die?

It's unknowable, but it's reasonable to assume that when the brain ceases to function, that which is dependent upon it to exist will also cease to exist. There is no evidenced reason to suggest otherwise, from what I've seen.

- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?

Life has the meaning if we find it to be meaningful. We cannot escape the human experience, and so cannot deny those human inclinations that drive us to engage with life.

- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?

Pretty freakin' sure, but absolute certainty is potentially dishonest and an epistemological no-no. ;)

- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them? If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?

The first part is true by definition; without a designer, design is incoherent. The problem with assuming a designed universe is that there is no means of comparison. Meaning, how do you differentiate designed and undesigned? What would an undersigned universe look like? Given that, it depends on the nature of the supposed evidence.

- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?

"Nothing", in the absolute sense, cannot be observed or even postulated to exist, so how can we claim to know anything about it? Further, how can it be determined that "nothing" was ever the state of affairs or that "nothing" is the default state of the universe? Logical conclusions that are derived from incoherent premises are, in of themselves, incoherent.

- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?

In the literal sense, yes.

- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?

Same as above.

- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?

The Big Bang describes the origins of the observable universe. The consequences of any events (if any) proceeding the Big Bang are unobservable and, therefore, remain undefined. The BBT does not postulate that the universe emerged from literally nothing. And the latter is pretty far-fetched, especially since assuming "someone" from the get-go is unwarranted.
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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8/30/2016 4:26:39 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?

Once I realized in my childhood that some people actually believed in the supernatural and so I was told I was an atheist because I didn't. I guess that was the time.

- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?

That's a quite complex question. I would need a lot of space to list everything. If I told you i'm a leftist, feminist, ecologist, atheist... Would that help you figure out, roughly, what I might consider evil?

- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?

Morality is subjective, therefore open to personal interpretation. In my view, moral things are those that promote a particular equilibrium of tolerance, social cohession, respect, freedom, security, happiness, fulfillment... Immoral things are those that promote the opposite.

- What happens when we die?

I guess you are asking what happens to the "self" when we die. Well, the "self" ceases to be such.

- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?

I guess you are asking "if there's no god, how does your life have any ultimate reward? (ie heaven)" I don't think life has ultimate rewards. No evaluation of your deeds at the end of your life that will deserve a reward (or a punishment). I simply do things that make me happy as I think that's the best way to live.

- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?

I'm asbolutely sure there's no supernatural beings. This includes fairies, unicorns, gods... Whatever you want.

- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them? If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?

No. I don't think people can tell intelligent design from natural design by analyzing an object. People can only recognize intelligent design by association, for example they know that a mobile phone found in the middle of a forest had to be designed by an intelligence because they know that in our society mobile phones are manufactured, not because the phone has any intrinsic property that reveals intelligent design. Conversely, they would know a snowflake was designed by nature not because the object has intrinsic properties that reveal it, but because they have studied the process of formation of snowflakes.

Because of this, it seems very difficult to me to tell what's "evidence for intelligent design" and what's not.

- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?

"Nothing can (or can not) produce something" are assumptions that my limited knowledge of physics do not allow me to answer. Although I think there's no such thing as "real nothingness" in the natural world.

About events always having a cause. I guess that would also require God to be created by a preceding cause, and thus an infinite regression would be created. That is quickly solved by saying God is eternal, but then I would prefer the conclusion that the universe is eternal and God doesn't exist.

- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?

Indeed.

- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?

Of course.

- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?

The Big Bang defends the universe was created from a singularity, not that "something was created out of nothing". So, by the Big Bang theory, I believe both scenarios you raise are equally unlikely.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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8/30/2016 4:53:25 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 1:20:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?
By using my ability for independent, intelligent thought.

How do you define your position as an atheist?

- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?
That which harms.

Childbirth harms the mother. Is childbirth evil?

- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?
Morality is an opinion.

So it's just opinion that the God of the Bible is immoral?

- What happens when we die?
That's it.

what supports this belief?

- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?
My life has the meaning I give it. My life's meaning is not my death like the meaning ascribed to the godbotherer.
- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?
TO which one of the thousands do you refer?

no God would apply at any/all of them.

- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them? If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?
Is it the complexity of the universe you claim in support of this claim?
- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?
I'm unaware of anything you call nothing, is your nothing something, if so what is it?

nothing means not anything which by definition can't be something.

- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?
No, I would advise you to test gravity by going to the highest building in your area and jumping off and on your way down ask your god to prevent gravity from smashing you into the ground. See which one is real.

so we should test for God in ways that wouldn't show whether or not an intelligent designer of the universe exists?

- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?
Gods are a claim made by mankind without ANY evidentiary support ever, ergo the claim is false gods don't exist.
- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?
Show me nothing.

Nothing means not anything. Are definitions only accurate when they can be shown?
Benshapiro
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8/30/2016 5:08:22 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 1:29:23 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?

I've never believed in the existence of God.

Out of curiosity were you raised by people who believe in God?

- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?

The deliberate, unnecessary inflicting of suffering onto a being capable of suffering, or the utter disregard of the well-being of such a being.

If I personally considered evil to be the deliberate, selfless compassion for others would my opinion of evil be of equal merit to yours in the same sense that we might have different opinions on which colors are better than others?

- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?

I lean towards motivation/intentions (in accordance to the above) as my means of moral judgment. I don't believe morality is anything but a subjective assessment.

You have a solid rational basis for delineating between "moral" and "immoral" then go on to say that's it's nothing but a subjective assessment. Is there any rational basis to argue that anything inherently subjective can be correctly answered?

- What happens when we die?

It's unknowable, but it's reasonable to assume that when the brain ceases to function, that which is dependent upon it to exist will also cease to exist. There is no evidenced reason to suggest otherwise, from what I've seen.

Have you read any studies on near death experiences?

- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?

Life has the meaning if we find it to be meaningful. We cannot escape the human experience, and so cannot deny those human inclinations that drive us to engage with life.

Do you think that life not having intrinsic meaning has negative implications?

- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?

Pretty freakin' sure, but absolute certainty is potentially dishonest and an epistemological no-no. ;)

so in the ballpark of 99%?

- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them? If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?

The first part is true by definition; without a designer, design is incoherent. The problem with assuming a designed universe is that there is no means of comparison. Meaning, how do you differentiate designed and undesigned? What would an undersigned universe look like? Given that, it depends on the nature of the supposed evidence.

Identify the signatures of intelligent design and then make an inference to the best explanation whether our universe has those same signatures.

- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?

"Nothing", in the absolute sense, cannot be observed or even postulated to exist, so how can we claim to know anything about it? Further, how can it be determined that "nothing" was ever the state of affairs or that "nothing" is the default state of the universe? Logical conclusions that are derived from incoherent premises are, in of themselves, incoherent.

Nothing means not anything. Can we know what something is not? The Big bang represents the expansion of space-time from a zero-point singularity of infinite density. If there was something that pre-existing the Big bang it certainly doesn't seem like it'd be a physical cause.

- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?

In the literal sense, yes.

- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?

Same as above.

- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?

The Big Bang describes the origins of the observable universe. The consequences of any events (if any) proceeding the Big Bang are unobservable and, therefore, remain undefined. The BBT does not postulate that the universe emerged from literally nothing. And the latter is pretty far-fetched, especially since assuming "someone" from the get-go is unwarranted.

Is it unreasonable to assume that the universe had a cause?
bulproof
Posts: 25,237
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8/30/2016 5:09:00 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 4:53:25 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/30/2016 1:20:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?
By using my ability for independent, intelligent thought.

How do you define your position as an atheist?
Rejecting your unevideneced claim that gods exist.
- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?
That which harms.

Childbirth harms the mother. Is childbirth evil?
When were you a mother and how can you support your nonsense.
- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?
Morality is an opinion.

So it's just opinion that the God of the Bible is immoral?
Of course, the alleged behaviour in the bible is immoral according to even the bible, but as an indoctrinated you will reject that.
- What happens when we die?
That's it.

what supports this belief?
The history of this planet.
- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?
My life has the meaning I give it. My life's meaning is not my death like the meaning ascribed to the godbotherer.
- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?
TO which one of the thousands do you refer?

no God would apply at any/all of them.
You believe that Quetzalcoatl exists? How about Zeus?
- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them? If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?
Is it the complexity of the universe you claim in support of this claim?
- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?
I'm unaware of anything you call nothing, is your nothing something, if so what is it?

nothing means not anything which by definition can't be something.
Yes, so why do you godbotherers continue to claim that "nothing" actually exists but that your imaginary friend created existence out of it?
- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?
No, I would advise you to test gravity by going to the highest building in your area and jumping off and on your way down ask your god to prevent gravity from smashing you into the ground. See which one is real.

so we should test for God in ways that wouldn't show whether or not an intelligent designer of the universe exists?
Talk to the clown who compared your invisible friend with gravity. My comparison is valid given his comparison. Do you want to test gravity against your god?
- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?
Gods are a claim made by mankind without ANY evidentiary support ever, ergo the claim is false gods don't exist.
- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?
Show me nothing.

Nothing means not anything. Are definitions only accurate when they can be shown?
So show me this magical nothing your god controls.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
TheGreatAndPowerful
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8/30/2016 5:12:43 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?

I was born this way.

- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?

Extreme immorality.

- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?

There are two levels here. A the top and most superficial level is that morality is determined by what social groups decide is moral and immoral and what is taught to their offspring.

Usually, but not always, this is rooted in a deeper level of prescriptive behaviors that act to the betterment (moral) or detriment (immoral) of the group.

- What happens when we die?

Depending on the circumstances there will be a confirmation of death by a medical professional, an autopsy, embalming. You will then be buried in accordance with the ceremonies per your customs, afterwhich you will slowly decompose. Alternatively you may be cremated and used as decoration by your offspring or scattered in a manner of your (predetermined) choosing.

- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?

By giving it meaning myself. This is how everyone's life has meaning. Meaning doesn't come from god. People decide for themselves what meaning their life has. Most people have convinced themselves that this meaning came from god, but they really decided on it themselves.

- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?

Yes.

- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them?

That is tautological, so of course I would.

If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?

Yes, but no such evidence exists.

- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something?

Yes.

If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?

No, it would be evidence that something can come from nothing and that my original premise was wrong.

- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?

I disagree that the things you mention cannot be detected or observed, but I will agree with the overall premise that just because something hasn't been observed that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But I think we can all agree that until something has been observed there is no reason to believe it does exist.

- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?

Yes.

- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?

The Big Bang does not say that something came out of nothing, so it acts as support for neither of those propositions.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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8/30/2016 5:36:44 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 5:09:00 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/30/2016 4:53:25 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/30/2016 1:20:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?
By using my ability for independent, intelligent thought.

How do you define your position as an atheist?
Rejecting your unevideneced claim that gods exist.

Do you reject claims that God exists as untrue or false or do you "reject" them in the sense that you're merely non-acceptant of them?

- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?
That which harms.

Childbirth harms the mother. Is childbirth evil?
When were you a mother and how can you support your nonsense.

You defined evil as "that which harms." Childbirth harms the mother. So, by your logic, childbirth is evil. Right?

- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?
Morality is an opinion.

So it's just opinion that the God of the Bible is immoral?
Of course, the alleged behaviour in the bible is immoral according to even the bible, but as an indoctrinated you will reject that.

So basically it's a tie between you alleging that the God of the Bible is immoral and the Christians who argue that he isn't. Interesting.

- What happens when we die?
That's it.

what supports this belief?
The history of this planet.

How does the history of the planet support the assertion that an afterlife doesn't exist?

- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?
My life has the meaning I give it. My life's meaning is not my death like the meaning ascribed to the godbotherer.
- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?
TO which one of the thousands do you refer?

no God would apply at any/all of them.
You believe that Quetzalcoatl exists? How about Zeus?

So, depending on which God is being talked about, you reserve judgement about whether or not they exist. Correct? Remember, you were asked "are you sure there is no God?" to which you replied "to which one of the thousands do you refer?" -- so, does it depend on which one is being talked about before you're willing to take the position that it doesn't exist?

- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them? If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?
Is it the complexity of the universe you claim in support of this claim?
- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?
I'm unaware of anything you call nothing, is your nothing something, if so what is it?

nothing means not anything which by definition can't be something.
Yes, so why do you godbotherers continue to claim that "nothing" actually exists but that your imaginary friend created existence out of it?

I didn't claim that nor do I believe God created existence out of it.

- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?
No, I would advise you to test gravity by going to the highest building in your area and jumping off and on your way down ask your god to prevent gravity from smashing you into the ground. See which one is real.

so we should test for God in ways that wouldn't show whether or not an intelligent designer of the universe exists?
Talk to the clown who compared your invisible friend with gravity. My comparison is valid given his comparison. Do you want to test gravity against your god?

He said: "just because we can't see something with our eyes doesn't mean that it doesn't exist." You replied that things do exist that we can't see but we have ways of testing them (such as jumping off a building.) I replied asking if we should test for God in ways that wouldn't show whether or not an intelligent designer of the universe exists (such as jumping off a building). You then said it's a valid comparison. So, jumping off a building is a valid test of whether or not an intelligent designer of the universe exists? nonsense.

- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?
Gods are a claim made by mankind without ANY evidentiary support ever, ergo the claim is false gods don't exist.
- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?
Show me nothing.

Nothing means not anything. Are definitions only accurate when they can be shown?
So show me this magical nothing your god controls.

Are definitions only accurate when they can be shown? And "shown" how?
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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8/30/2016 6:17:12 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?

I've just always been one.

- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?

I don't think evil exists. There are people who make harmful decisions to a greater degree than others.

- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?

Harm = immoral.

- What happens when we die?

Lots of stuff happens, we just aren't alive to experience it any more.

- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?

I'm going to assume you mean purpose or value. It has the purpose I give it and the value that I and others place on it.

- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?

There are some gods that are claimed to exist that I'm sure do not exist. Others are poorly defined or simply untestable, and so I don't know if they do or don't. And there are undoubtedly an infinite number of gods for which I have not yet heard a claim, and for which I currently do not know whether they exist or not.

- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them? If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?

Would I agree that if B comes from A then A must have caused B? Yeah. And, yes, if you have evidence that B is something caused by A, then that would be evidence that A caused B. Do you want to phrase that in a way that isn't fallacious?

- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?

I don't know what "nothing" is. Define it and I'll let you know.

- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?

Yes, duh.

- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?

Yes, duh.

- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?

The big bang just appears to be evidence of a change in the universe, going from a singularity to what we understand it to be now. What evidence do you have that the universe was actually created?
Chaosism
Posts: 2,663
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8/30/2016 6:23:23 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 5:08:22 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/30/2016 1:29:23 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?

I've never believed in the existence of God.

Out of curiosity were you raised by people who believe in God?

Some of the family did and some didn't, but it was never something that was expressed. To this day, I don't know what my father believes, for example. But, even if I was, I would have probably turned out the same way - I was skeptical of everything early on, including even of school teachers on occasion.

- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?

The deliberate, unnecessary inflicting of suffering onto a being capable of suffering, or the utter disregard of the well-being of such a being.

If I personally considered evil to be the deliberate, selfless compassion for others would my opinion of evil be of equal merit to yours in the same sense that we might have different opinions on which colors are better than others?

Sort of. With colors, there is no determinable ends to which our "means" can be evaluated and compared. Within the context of humanity, though, and ends can be determined by human inclinations, which overwhelmingly favor well-being. According to this, your definition doesn't jive with the majority position.

- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?

I lean towards motivation/intentions (in accordance to the above) as my means of moral judgment. I don't believe morality is anything but a subjective assessment.

You have a solid rational basis for delineating between "moral" and "immoral" then go on to say that's it's nothing but a subjective assessment. Is there any rational basis to argue that anything inherently subjective can be correctly answered?

Yes. Humans are morally oriented in the same basic way with the same general ideals. Certainly exceptions and perversions exist, but for the most part, humans are overwhelmingly inclined towards well-being to at least some degree. To draw a crude analogy, imagine a world in which pizza is favored by virtually everyone. Would it not be practical to treat pizza as if it were actually the best food even though that's ultimately subjective?

- What happens when we die?

It's unknowable, but it's reasonable to assume that when the brain ceases to function, that which is dependent upon it to exist will also cease to exist. There is no evidenced reason to suggest otherwise, from what I've seen.

Have you read any studies on near death experiences?

Yes, actually. The key word is "near", and the brain behaves quite erratically when under the duress of dying. False experience can be produced and remembered very vividly. Memories formed during such periods are not at all reliable due to the state of the brain. Did you have anything particular in mind, though?

- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?

Life has the meaning if we find it to be meaningful. We cannot escape the human experience, and so cannot deny those human inclinations that drive us to engage with life.

Do you think that life not having intrinsic meaning has negative implications?

Depends on the person, but yes, it definitely can. Our higher intellect come with some down sides, that's for certain. I would likely maintain a nihilistic stance even in the case that God does exist, though.

- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?

Pretty freakin' sure, but absolute certainty is potentially dishonest and an epistemological no-no. ;)

so in the ballpark of 99%?

It's not really quantifiable, but as a ball park, somewhere in that vicinity, I suppose. Maybe not 99%, per se...

- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them? If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?

The first part is true by definition; without a designer, design is incoherent. The problem with assuming a designed universe is that there is no means of comparison. Meaning, how do you differentiate designed and undesigned? What would an undersigned universe look like? Given that, it depends on the nature of the supposed evidence.

Identify the signatures of intelligent design and then make an inference to the best explanation whether our universe has those same signatures.

But how would you determine this if the only examples we have of intelligent design is human design? Complexity =/= design, and that's what I find to be a strong factor in the support of ID. A great deal of what we create mimics what we see in nature, so we have to be careful about hastily identifying similarities.

- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?

"Nothing", in the absolute sense, cannot be observed or even postulated to exist, so how can we claim to know anything about it? Further, how can it be determined that "nothing" was ever the state of affairs or that "nothing" is the default state of the universe? Logical conclusions that are derived from incoherent premises are, in of themselves, incoherent.

Nothing means not anything. Can we know what something is not? The Big bang represents the expansion of space-time from a zero-point singularity of infinite density. If there was something that pre-existing the Big bang it certainly doesn't seem like it'd be a physical cause.

As far as I know, the singularity is only mathematically derived since at that point light could not escape, hence no observable consequences. What leads you to believe that it isn't likely to be a physical cause? All knowledge and understanding of the universe comes exclusively from our study of the observable world, so it's kind of a leap of faith to apply those observations to that which we can't observe.

- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?

The Big Bang describes the origins of the observable universe. The consequences of any events (if any) proceeding the Big Bang are unobservable and, therefore, remain undefined. The BBT does not postulate that the universe emerged from literally nothing. And the latter is pretty far-fetched, especially since assuming "someone" from the get-go is unwarranted.

Is it unreasonable to assume that the universe had a cause?

It's an assumption that I have no means of evaluating apart from what "feels" right to me. So, I don't think it's entirely reasonable. Any conclusions derived from this assumption are, in turn, assumptions themselves.
cedertree
Posts: 21
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8/30/2016 7:00:57 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.
It seems to me that these are just questions to lead to somewhere but that's okay because reflection and critical thinking is very important to this atheist.

- How did you become an Atheist?
I was raised Christian. I gave my heart to Jesus at 7 (do you think a 7 year old knows the implications of that?) I tried to live in the way Jesus taught. My childhood was.... not full of love and support. I looked to Jesus for that and prayed for 7 years to find happiness though him. As you probably guessed I found a whole lot of nothing. I was faced with the kitchen knife in my hand (at 14 years of age) and the thought of death seemed inviting compared to my worthless Christian life. Thankfully, I decided to try one more approach. I would look to myself in the mirror and abandon every thing that was taught to me and start over. I'm still alive and more than that I love life. No God helped me realize how valuable I am in this world.

- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil? There are many was to say "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"(Christian) "if it harm none do what thou will" (wicca)
(Bah"'" Faith:)
"Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee, and say not that which thou doest not." "Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself." Baha'u'llah
(Brahmanism:)
"This is the sum of Dharma [duty]: Do naught unto others which would cause you pain if done to you". Mahabharata, 5:1517 "
(Buddhism:)
"...a state that is not pleasing or delightful to me, how could I inflict that upon another?" Samyutta NIkaya v. 353
and many, many, many others. I think you get the point.

- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?
as above how ever I would direct your question to the answer that Sam Harris gives on the "best human condition"
https://www.youtube.com...

- What happens when we die?
the short answer is nothing we cease to exist just as we did not exist before birth. However, we cannot know for sure what happens to consciences after death.

- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?
To me it is absolutely amazing that we are here and experiencing life. That by itself is enough for me. Other wise I have to say I prefer the uncertainty of freedom's misty dawn to the slavery of the comfortable religious view.

- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?
The short answer is no. Maybe he just didn't want to help me in my time of need. However, the evidence is strongly against the specific gods of any religion.

- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them? If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?
No. Neil degrease Tyson said it best that when compared to how things could have been designed it's actually not all that intelligent.

- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?
It is a wonderful mystery. One that I wont sully with "cause God did it." We have an intellectual responsibility to see for our selves instead of making it up.

- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?
The scientific community is allowed to adjust its view to fit the current evidence. The religious community is not so good at that. By doctrine, they are not allowed to change their view.

- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?
when the evidence is forth coming the view will be changed until then its speculation and philosophy. I will not put my life in the hands of speculative beings.

- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?
In logical thought you would be correct but the hard to swallow answer is "we don't know". The Atheist and scientist is okay with not knowing. the theist on the other hand... not so much.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,110
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8/31/2016 2:06:38 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?

Evaluating my beliefs.

- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?

I think the word "evil" has religious connotations, and to answer this question would cause confusion. If you want to rephrase, I'll do my best to answer.

- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?

I agree with Chaosism's answer. That which causes unnecessary suffering is immoral.

- What happens when we die?

We no longer exist. (I don't accept the concept of afterlife or reincarnation)

- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?

The question makes no sense to me. How would god existing give my life meaning?

- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?

No. There are many things I'm not absolutely certain of.

- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them? If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?

Yes. Yes, but good luck showing that! Assuming we don't *know* something is design we must compare it to things we *know* are not designed. There is nothing to compare this universe to.

- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?

We don't know this universe came from nothing. It is possible that energy has always existed, in my non-physicist opinion. Second question is not applicable.

- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?

Sure, but we can detect these things save for "mind", and I consider that to be synonymous with "brain". We can detect the brain, electrical activity, and even rudimentary representations of thoughts as well.

- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?

Sure, provided you mean a god that is logically possible.

- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?

We don't know that the Big Bang was a creation event. (Energy may have always existed)
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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8/31/2016 2:49:14 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.
- How did you become an Atheist?
Like all humans, I was born without belief in gods.

- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?
Like psychologist Phil Zimbardo, I define evil as the systematic use of power to hurt, harm or destroy other sentient beings.

- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?
Morality is objective but emergent, JimW: it derives from diligent, compassionate and respectful inquiry into the consequences of our actions on other sentient beings.

As we learn more about how to meet our needs while giving others greater safety, agency and dignity, we become more moral. As we abandon care or responsibility for our impacts, we become more amoral. As we seek to profit from hurt, harm and destruction of others, we become more immoral.

- What happens when we die?
Psychosocially, our self-identities appear to be an illusion constructed in parts from self-reflection, self-defense, and social reflection. But the illusion is a function of mind sustained by the organic operation of our brains. If our brains grow diseased or injured, the illusion can change or become damaged. If our brain's function diminishes, the illusion collapses and may become irrecoverable. When the brain decays, the illusion is destroyed, except for whatever traces of it may reside in whatever you recorded.

- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?
Because we are a compassionate, curious, cooperative species, the struggle for agency, dignity and wisdom is meaningful within ourselves, our society and our species.

- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?
Gods are a claim of theology, and I have no doubt that all theology is a crock.

- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them?
I disagree with the premise, but even granted a designed universe, that's not sufficient evidence that theology is not cynical, delusory and intellectual dishonest.

- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something?
I believe the question incoherent. How do you independently identify nothing? If you cannot identify it, how can you know anything about it?

- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes -- such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind -- that does not mean it doesn't exist?
I note from the damaged typography, JimW (corrected above) that you seem to have cut and pasted your questions from another source. Honesty and respect would suggest citing any source you used.

Regardless, if you mean objective existence, that's born of systematic, best-practice, independently-confirmed, correlated observation. We can observe things indirectly as well as directly.

- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn't exist?
The concept of God is incoherent, and thus admits neither evidence nor reason. The question is therefore vacuous.

- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?
The concept of nothing is incoherent and thus admits neither evidence nor reason. The question is therefore vacuous.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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8/31/2016 2:49:58 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?

I don't think anyone becomes an atheist. I think people are born with no belief in anything and any belief systems are adopted by people. What they end up believing depends on what others convince them is true and what they convince themselves is true and real. The culture people are born into and the way they are brought up has a lot to do with what they end up believing and what they consider to be unbelievable.

- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?

Whether people believe in any gods or not makes no difference to their moral beliefs.
From my own personal observations of people, I have gathered that some atheists seem to have higher moral standards than some believers in God.
Personally I think that it is evil and wrong for people to deliberately harm other people or deliberately lead them astray by lying to them in order to avoid some harsh truth or reality.

- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?

Society and human tradition does. Morality is ingrained into us by our ancestors who taught their offspring that doing certain things brings undesirable or desirable consequences. People generally end up trying to avoid undesirable consequences so if they wish to do something which society deems to be "immoral" without facing the consequences, they tend to do it in secret hoping their little secret won't be discovered.

- What happens when we die?

We end up in a grave or cremated and ultimately end up as dust.

- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?

To people who believe that all gods are mythical characters, that question is as illogical as the following question..... If there are no fairies, how can your life have any meaning?

- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?

Try putting yourself in the shoes of a person who believes that all gods are mythical characters. If you believe that all fairies are mythical characters just replace the word God with the word fairies and ask yourself your own question like this...
Are you absolutely sure there are no fairies?
Some people are as certain that all gods including the bible God are mythical as they are that all fairies are mythical.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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8/31/2016 3:28:51 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:

- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them? If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?

When it comes to things designed by humans, most people seem to believe that human designers are intelligent people.
When it comes to natural designs of nature, I do not perceive nature itself to have any intelligence. Intelligence is a human attribute. It is the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills. I do not think nature has the ability to acquire knowledge and skills. I think nature works on repetitive processes and cycles which are a result of the natural interactions of that which exists.

- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?

I agree that you cannot get something from nothing. I believe that life comes only from life ( Biogenesis)
When it comes to the universe. I think it is illogical to believe it had a beginning point in time because of the paradox of infinite regress of life coming from nothing but life. The cause and effect scenario is one of infinite regress which if considered to its logical conclusion can never end in an ultimate beginning of the universe but must logically conclude in the concept of an infinite and eternal universe. The definition of the universe being "All that exists". Since you need existence to produce existence, there can never have been a time when nothing existed and at any time in history, "All that existed" was "All that existed" which is defined as the universe ( "All that exists") That does not mean that all individual forms of matter that exist today also existed billions of years ago in the same form but they may easily have existed in a different form if the conservation of Mass/Energy is correct.
http://www.chemteam.info...
I personally conclude that the universe is infinite and eternal because of my above reasoning.
I believe any stories about a beginning of the universe are fictions and that includes the Big Bang theory and the God theory which both imply that there was a lot less matter in the universe in the past than there is today.

- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?

I think most people will agree with that but we can observe the effects of the mind, gravity, magnetism, wind, etc. That is why we believe they exist. One of the effects of the human mind is imagination and although imagination exists, sane intelligent people understand that the things we imagine like purple flying pigs, fairies and mythical creatures do not exist in reality but are indeed a product of human imagination and creativity. We can create what we imagine and express these things in art forms like creative writing, paintings music etc but painting a fairy or a god of any kind still will never make that fairy or god come alive in reality.

- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?

Would you agree that just because you cannot see fairies with your eyes does not mean fairies do not exist?

- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?

I have never personally seen any big bang evidence. It is all heresay. It is a THEORY (A supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something). We are expected to believe it because science teachers teach it and IMPLY it is true in spite of science itself admitting it cannot be absolutely 100% certain about anything.

http://www.truthdefined.com...

It is more reasonable to believe the universe (ALL matter and energy ) has always existed in some form and it merely goes through cycles and recycles itself for all eternity. E=MC2
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,110
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8/31/2016 3:42:20 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 2:49:58 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?

I don't think anyone becomes an atheist. I think people are born with no belief in anything and any belief systems are adopted by people. What they end up believing depends on what others convince them is true and what they convince themselves is true and real. The culture people are born into and the way they are brought up has a lot to do with what they end up believing and what they consider to be unbelievable.


- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?

Whether people believe in any gods or not makes no difference to their moral beliefs.
From my own personal observations of people, I have gathered that some atheists seem to have higher moral standards than some believers in God.
Personally I think that it is evil and wrong for people to deliberately harm other people or deliberately lead them astray by lying to them in order to avoid some harsh truth or reality.

- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?

Society and human tradition does. Morality is ingrained into us by our ancestors who taught their offspring that doing certain things brings undesirable or desirable consequences. People generally end up trying to avoid undesirable consequences so if they wish to do something which society deems to be "immoral" without facing the consequences, they tend to do it in secret hoping their little secret won't be discovered.

- What happens when we die?

We end up in a grave or cremated and ultimately end up as dust.

- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?

To people who believe that all gods are mythical characters, that question is as illogical as the following question..... If there are no fairies, how can your life have any meaning?

- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?

Try putting yourself in the shoes of a person who believes that all gods are mythical characters. If you believe that all fairies are mythical characters just replace the word God with the word fairies and ask yourself your own question like this...
Are you absolutely sure there are no fairies?
Some people are as certain that all gods including the bible God are mythical as they are that all fairies are mythical.

I respect your open-mindedness here, Sky.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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8/31/2016 3:53:45 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 3:42:20 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 8/31/2016 2:49:58 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:

- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?

Try putting yourself in the shoes of a person who believes that all gods are mythical characters. If you believe that all fairies are mythical characters just replace the word God with the word fairies and ask yourself your own question like this...
Are you absolutely sure there are no fairies?
Some people are as certain that all gods including the bible God are mythical as they are that all fairies are mythical.

I respect your open-mindedness here, Sky.

Thank you. It is not hard to comprehend the atheist point of view when we understand their perceptions.
Skeptical1
Posts: 679
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8/31/2016 4:05:24 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?

Interesting perspective - it assumes that at some point in time I wasn't an atheist, whereas everyone is born an atheist. However, your point itself is valid, as in my experience more atheists than not (at least in western countries) have had some sort of religious belief at some point. For me, it was simply a case of finding it impossible to maintain belief in believe something(s) that I found increasingly unlikely.

- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?

Causing harm to any other sentient life form (unless it is a threat to me or those I love).

- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?

Morality is relative. Each person has to decide for themselves what is right and wrong. The alternative (slavishly following the commandments of some supreme being) is clearly not morality, it's obedience.

- What happens when we die?

Our atoms are absorbed into our environment, and we become part of it.

- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?

It has the meaning I find in it. What makes this life meaningless, in my opinion, is the thought that it's just some "practice run" for something to come.

- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?

As sure as I can be of anything.

- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them? If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?

I balk at saying that I agree with the premise. Not because it's wrong, but because it's tautological - you might as well say that green grass is grass that is green. Furthermore, I think the question uses sophistry with regard to language. Saying there is "evidence for intelligent design in the universe" is not the same as saying "the universe is intelligently designed". I quite happily acknowledge that there is intelligent design in the universe, which is clearly proven by the Massey Ferguson 135 tractor - designed by humans. But I see no evidence for an intelligent designer of the universe.

- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?

I suspect that nothing can't produce something. However my knowledge of quantum mechanics is not vast, so I could stand to be corrected. My understanding of cosmology is that most don't claim that the universe came from nothing, but that it came from a singularity. Also note that it is no more correct to ask "where did the singularity come from?" than it is to ask "where did God come from?".

- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?

Absolutely.

- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?

Absolutely.

- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?

Postulating a "creator" answers nothing, in so far as I can see, for then how did the creator come to be? If you can claim that a creator has always existed, then I can claim that the singularity from which the universe formed always existed. Being intelligent, or being "alive" in some sense is not a prerequisite for existence. Depending on whether you are a new-earth creationist, or an intelligent design advocate (I presume from the questions, more likely the latter) the question doesn't change much - God either created the earth 6,000 years ago, or 13.8 billion years ago. Which makes me wonder "what was he doing for the 13.8 billion years before that? Or the 13.8 billion times 13.8 billion years prior?

I've taken the questions here as being posed in an effort to genuinely understand an alternative position, so I've tried to answer as honestly and best as I can. Hope it's of some help.
Silvy70
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8/31/2016 5:05:15 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

: - How did you become an Atheist?
By default, being unable to justify belief.

: - If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?
I don't consider anything "evil", in terms of the widely used definition, which, to me, invokes acceptances of some sort of imposing force outside of the realm of one's normal physiology, which is plenty capable of doing very bad things, in itself.

: - What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?
The degree to which popular sentiment approves or disapproves of an act that causes harm to others.

: - What happens when we die?
One's mind and body loses all energy to function and thus begins decomposing, where solid molecules that comprised ones living body convert and are released as gases into the air.


: - If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?
As evidenced by the extent that I affect those around me.

: - Are you absolutely sure there is no God?
Didn't know there were degrees of "sure", but sure.

: - Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them? If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?
No, I wouldn't.

: - Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?
Yes, I would agree. But, then why do you automatically assume that the universe ever didn't exist? So, no, not in itself.

: - Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?
Yes, I agree.

: - Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?
Yes, but we also don't see gnomes.

: - In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?
To theorize the creation of our Solar System? Yes, far more reasonable than anything I can think of, or have heard or had pushed on me.
ShaneMcG
Posts: 22
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9/2/2016 5:39:46 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?
I was raised, baptized, and went through confirmation as a Lutheran. When I was in middle school I started realizing there were a lot of things that didn't make sense to me about Christianity (some things just from the Lutheran sect, some things from Christianity in general). I started asking questions, but I never got any satisfactory answers. I looked at other religions, but they were full of their own problems. I was essentially a deist for about 10 years - wanting to believe in a higher power, but having no idea what that was - until I came to the conclusion that there is more reason not to believe in a god than there is to believe in one.

- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?
I hesitate to use the word evil because I don't really know why people do the things they do. To me, morality is not black and white, and I try not to use absolutes.

- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?
I don't buy into an objective morality because, as I said, I don't think morality is black and white. If murder is wrong, does that mean it's wrong for a soldier to kill a terrorist who would have killed thousands of innocent people? I don't think so. So murder cannot always be wrong. I also think moral codes should be subject to change if the need arises. Objective morality can't change.

As for where morality comes from, I think most of our moral code can be explained in terms of evolution. Species that live in societies or tribes depend on groups to stay alive, and there has to be a certain level of trust in the group for that to work. Thus things like murder being immoral and self-sacrifice being moral can be explained in terms of the survival of the group. As a society evolves, its morality changes. Back when most children used to die in infancy, it was important to have many children to increase the chances of at least some growing into adulthood. As a result, girls would marry young and it was morally ok for them to have sex at a young age. Now that we no longer have that problem, it's not necessary for families to have as many children, so women don't have to devote their entire lives to producing children, and the age at which it is morally ok for girls to get married or have sex (with an adult, at least) has risen.

Personally, I haven't completely thought out my moral code yet. I think a good start is "try not to cause harm." It's not perfect and it doesn't cover every situation, but it gives me a good foundation to build on.

- What happens when we die?
I have no idea. In my opinion the idea that makes the most sense is that after you die it's just like before you were born - the world moves on without you. The universe existed for 13.7 billion years before any of us were even born, and none of us had any awareness of those 13.7 billion years. It's not much of a stretch, then, to think that it will be the same way when you die. It's possible that there is an afterlife, but that's much more of a stretch based on the little we know of life and death.

- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?
My life has the meaning that I create for it. I find that much more inspiring than if someone else were to give my life meaning for me.

- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?
No. I'm an agnostic atheist, meaning I don't believe in any gods, but I don't claim to know that they don't exist. I have no evidence to disprove God, so I can't say I'm absolutely sure God doesn't exist. However, I do think it's highly unlikely that a god exists.

- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them?
Isn't that the definition of something that is intelligently designed: something that was designed by an intelligent being?

If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?
No. There are already many things in the universe that are intelligently designed by humans, but that's not evidence that humans designed the universe. Even if we find something in the universe that is intelligently designed by something other than humans, that doesn't mean that whoever designed that thing also designed the universe. (I may have misinterpreted this question. If I did, please correct me.)

- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something?
Not necessarily. Currently there are physicists working on the hypothesis that in fact the universe could come from nothing. That hypothesis is based on the premise that in quantum physics particles pop in and out of existence all the time, so if that could happen on a larger scale then universes could act the same way. They haven't yet found any evidence to support that hypothesis (it's a pretty new idea), but it is possible. Lawrence Krauss wrote a book called A Universe from Nothing explaining the hypothesis.

- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?

- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?
Of course to both.

- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?
In my opinion it's more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing. If God created the universe, how did God come into existence? If He came into existence out of nothing, then no one created Him out of nothing, so you get the same result.
ANON_TacTiX
Posts: 460
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9/2/2016 7:25:01 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?
I decided one day that religion made no sense to me. It made no sense that the laws of physics should just break down to allow for the existence of a God. Science is reliable and is governed by simple, unchanging laws and principles. Religion is full of cherry picking and contradictions. Science has provided humanity with explanations for how the universe around us works, how the Earth came to be, and how we got here. Religion has provided humanity with ridiculous stories.
- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?
Anything that one does to deliberately cause pain to another for the sole purpose of hurting that person.
- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?
The balance of empathy / emotion and logical thinking.
- What happens when we die?
Nonexistence. Nothing. Poof, you're gone.
- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?
Not meaning, purpose. My purpose is to make the world better and to lead as good a life as I possibly can. Why do I need religion to do that?
- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?
Absolutely not. To be 100% certain that your opinions are correct is both ignorant and arrogant. I accept the possibility that I am wrong and God exists. I have seen no real evidence that I am wrong, however, so I will continue to act as though I am not. If someone does manage to provide scientific proof for God's existence, I will accept it.
- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them?
Well, yeah, but you cannot prove that anything is intelligently designed in the first place.
If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?
Yes, but where is the evidence for intelligent design? Yes, the universe and the things in it are very complex and fine tuned, but that does not mean that the universe was designed by some Creator.
- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?
We don't actually know what happened before the universe as we know it came to exist. It may not have come from nothing or maybe it did. Physics is weird. The fact is that it doesn't matter what happened before our universe came to exist. It is of zero consequence, so physicists don't care.
- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?
Of course things that we cannot see can exist. Look at dark matter. My disbelief in God does not stem from the inability to observe God, but the impossibility of God's existence according to the laws of physics. Again, why should the laws of physics just break so that god can exist?
- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?
Again, it is not the inability to observe God that is the source of my disbelief, but the fact that the laws of physics would not allow for such a being to exist in our universe.
- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?
Again, what happened before our universe came to exist and what it came from is of zero consequence in physics, so physicists don't care. There will always be room for a Creator at the beginning of the universe, but again, such a being could not exist within out universe. Such a being would have little choice in how they would start the universe out and no choice in how it evolved from there. Also, the universe may not have come from nothing. The simple fact is that it does not matter. All that matters in physics is how our universe and the things inside it work and evolve.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
Willows
Posts: 2,053
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9/2/2016 8:01:11 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 7:25:01 AM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?
I decided one day that religion made no sense to me. It made no sense that the laws of physics should just break down to allow for the existence of a God. Science is reliable and is governed by simple, unchanging laws and principles. Religion is full of cherry picking and contradictions. Science has provided humanity with explanations for how the universe around us works, how the Earth came to be, and how we got here. Religion has provided humanity with ridiculous stories.
- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?
Anything that one does to deliberately cause pain to another for the sole purpose of hurting that person.
- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?
The balance of empathy / emotion and logical thinking.
- What happens when we die?
Nonexistence. Nothing. Poof, you're gone.
- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?
Not meaning, purpose. My purpose is to make the world better and to lead as good a life as I possibly can. Why do I need religion to do that?
- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?
Absolutely not. To be 100% certain that your opinions are correct is both ignorant and arrogant. I accept the possibility that I am wrong and God exists. I have seen no real evidence that I am wrong, however, so I will continue to act as though I am not. If someone does manage to provide scientific proof for God's existence, I will accept it.
- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them?
Well, yeah, but you cannot prove that anything is intelligently designed in the first place.
If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?
Yes, but where is the evidence for intelligent design? Yes, the universe and the things in it are very complex and fine tuned, but that does not mean that the universe was designed by some Creator.
- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?
We don't actually know what happened before the universe as we know it came to exist. It may not have come from nothing or maybe it did. Physics is weird. The fact is that it doesn't matter what happened before our universe came to exist. It is of zero consequence, so physicists don't care.
- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?
Of course things that we cannot see can exist. Look at dark matter. My disbelief in God does not stem from the inability to observe God, but the impossibility of God's existence according to the laws of physics. Again, why should the laws of physics just break so that god can exist?
- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?
Again, it is not the inability to observe God that is the source of my disbelief, but the fact that the laws of physics would not allow for such a being to exist in our universe.
- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?
Again, what happened before our universe came to exist and what it came from is of zero consequence in physics, so physicists don't care. There will always be room for a Creator at the beginning of the universe, but again, such a being could not exist within out universe. Such a being would have little choice in how they would start the universe out and no choice in how it evolved from there. Also, the universe may not have come from nothing. The simple fact is that it does not matter. All that matters in physics is how our universe and the things inside it work and evolve.

Best and most balanced answer I have seen. I agree with your points but would like to hear your explanation of the "laws of physics" in not allowing a supernatural power to exist, similarly why these laws could not be broken.
ANON_TacTiX
Posts: 460
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9/2/2016 4:00:00 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 8:01:11 AM, Willows wrote:
At 9/2/2016 7:25:01 AM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?
I decided one day that religion made no sense to me. It made no sense that the laws of physics should just break down to allow for the existence of a God. Science is reliable and is governed by simple, unchanging laws and principles. Religion is full of cherry picking and contradictions. Science has provided humanity with explanations for how the universe around us works, how the Earth came to be, and how we got here. Religion has provided humanity with ridiculous stories.
- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?
Anything that one does to deliberately cause pain to another for the sole purpose of hurting that person.
- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?
The balance of empathy / emotion and logical thinking.
- What happens when we die?
Nonexistence. Nothing. Poof, you're gone.
- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?
Not meaning, purpose. My purpose is to make the world better and to lead as good a life as I possibly can. Why do I need religion to do that?
- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?
Absolutely not. To be 100% certain that your opinions are correct is both ignorant and arrogant. I accept the possibility that I am wrong and God exists. I have seen no real evidence that I am wrong, however, so I will continue to act as though I am not. If someone does manage to provide scientific proof for God's existence, I will accept it.
- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them?
Well, yeah, but you cannot prove that anything is intelligently designed in the first place.
If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?
Yes, but where is the evidence for intelligent design? Yes, the universe and the things in it are very complex and fine tuned, but that does not mean that the universe was designed by some Creator.
- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?
We don't actually know what happened before the universe as we know it came to exist. It may not have come from nothing or maybe it did. Physics is weird. The fact is that it doesn't matter what happened before our universe came to exist. It is of zero consequence, so physicists don't care.
- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?
Of course things that we cannot see can exist. Look at dark matter. My disbelief in God does not stem from the inability to observe God, but the impossibility of God's existence according to the laws of physics. Again, why should the laws of physics just break so that god can exist?
- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?
Again, it is not the inability to observe God that is the source of my disbelief, but the fact that the laws of physics would not allow for such a being to exist in our universe.
- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?
Again, what happened before our universe came to exist and what it came from is of zero consequence in physics, so physicists don't care. There will always be room for a Creator at the beginning of the universe, but again, such a being could not exist within out universe. Such a being would have little choice in how they would start the universe out and no choice in how it evolved from there. Also, the universe may not have come from nothing. The simple fact is that it does not matter. All that matters in physics is how our universe and the things inside it work and evolve.

Best and most balanced answer I have seen. I agree with your points but would like to hear your explanation of the "laws of physics" in not allowing a supernatural power to exist, similarly why these laws could not be broken.

Thank you. The laws of physics are basically a set of simple laws that govern the universe. Everything from the increase of entropy over time and the inability for any matter to travel faster than light. These laws govern everything in the universe from the tiniest particles to the largest galaxies. I am not a physicist, so I don't really think that I can explain them in much more detail than that (how they work, why they exist, etc.). I can't tell you off the top of my head exactly why the laws of physics would not allow for the existence of supernatural beings. I would have to do some more research on the subject Just to be clear, I do have a basis for my claims, and I have done some research on the subject, but I am not a physicist. My understanding of physics is far from perfect. I do know, though that the laws of physics do not change. They would break down at a singularity (black hole), but they do not change. The laws of physics were set during the beginning of the universe. The initial conditions of the universe are what determined how the laws of physics would work and how they would govern the universe's evolution through time. It is because the laws of physics do not change and have not changed that we can come up with such an accurate picture of the beginning of the universe. Because the laws break down at singularities, however, it is impossible to go back to the very beginning. Actually, there is a theory out there called the no boundaries proposal that kind of fixes this problem. The theory states that the universe is finite in space and time but has no boundary. The universe has a finite time value, but there is no beginning or end boundary. This may seem absurd, but the theory actually makes a lot of sense when you dive deeper. Plus, the implications of this theory have actually been seen to agree with observation and scientific principal, so it is valid. Of course, so are a lot of other theories.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,843
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9/2/2016 4:27:08 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?

The gods revealed the truth to me.

- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?

Islam

- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?

Whether they agree with me or not.

- What happens when we die?

You don't. You're actually immortal and as soon as you die you "wake up". "Reality" is constructed by you and structured around you, which is why you can't determine my existence or not, as we discussed before.

- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?

There is no objective reason why you shouldn't be killing everyone right now.

- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?

They are the absolutes, thus I can't be absolutely sure. Even though they told me.

- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them? If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?

If you think "intelligent design" is legit then obviously you haven't seen how stupid most things in the universe are. Like, what genius invented platypuses? A duck or a beaver, make up your mind. Or circular planets? Triangles are objectively superior.

- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something? If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist, wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?

The only thing that existed was Doge. And "wow" brought things to exist.

- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?

You are objectively wrong in that statement, and thus also stupid. Everyone knows none of those things exist.

- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?

How can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real?

- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?

I think it's fairly clear the Universe came into existence because nothing spontaneously combusted.
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9/3/2016 1:05:20 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/30/2016 12:58:55 PM, jesusismywarrior wrote:
Atheists seem to be pretty diverse, even from an ideological perspective, more so than the religious generally. Therefore, I decided to ask Atheists a few individual questions.

- How did you become an Atheist?

Was having a lot of problem fitting in with my mormon peers in high school. This frustration got me questioning the mormon church and broke me out of my self-brainwashing.

- If you're an Atheist, what do you personally, consider evil?

Murderers, rapists, very abusive people, etc if I define evil as malevolence or someone who does a great amount of harm to others then I do think some people are evil. Easy question, evil answer.

- What makes something "moral" or "immoral"?

Our actions should be governed by logic and lead to decisions that improve our happiness and well being. Morality is just based on religious dogma or the feeling of disgust to harm actions, or empathy toward others. Its all just irrational. Logic is a better approach.

- What happens when we die?

Then you will no longer be conscious and your body and brain will turn off and will rot until it becomes dirt.

- If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?

Because certain things can still give me happiness so I pursue those things that give me happiness because happiness feels good.

- Are you absolutely sure there is no God?

Nope. You can't prove he doesn't exist, just like you can't prove unicorns don't exist.

- Would you agree that intelligently designed things call for an intelligent designer of them? If so, then would you agree that evidence for intelligent design in the universe would be evidence for a designer of the universe?

Well, intelligently designed things are by definition intelligently designed, thats a no brainer. The real question is are complex things evidence of intelligent design. We already have mountains of evidence for evolution by natural selection and mutations creating massively complex features in the fossil record, in genetics, and anatomical clues. In fact we have seen complex abilities evolve before our very eyes like bacteria evolving the ability to digest new complex compounds. So complexity is not evidence of design.

- Would you agree that nothing cannot produce something?

Of course.

If so, then if the universe did not exist but then came to exist,

How do you know the universe at one point never existed?

wouldn"t this be evidence of a cause beyond the universe?

Yes, but that cause might have been some force in a multiverse or something. Nobody can really prove what created our universe.

- Would you agree with me that just because we cannot see something with our eyes"such as our mind, gravity, magnetism, the wind"that does not mean it doesn"t exist?

Of course. But we believe in these things because there is strong evidence for them. The evidence for a designer is controversial and has lots of flaws. There is no evidence for the Christian God specifically.

- Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn"t exist?

Yes I agree. Also because you have never seen Peter Pan doesn't mean he doesn't exist either.

- In the light of the big bang evidence for the origin of the universe, is it more reasonable to believe that no one created something out of nothing or someone created something out of nothing?

I think things being created out of nothing is ridiculous although there is some evidence from Quantum Mechanics that some particles are created from nothing. I think an eternal universe or a universe created from a force of some kind are other possibilities.