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Imperfect?

Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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8/31/2016 10:01:30 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
I often read posts where writers claim they are imperfect.

I would like to ask those people who see themselves as imperfect, what do you imagine or define as a perfect person?
What would be the attributes of a perfect person and which of those attributes do you lack to make you imperfect?
janesix
Posts: 3,439
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8/31/2016 10:07:37 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 10:01:30 PM, Skyangel wrote:
I often read posts where writers claim they are imperfect.

I would like to ask those people who see themselves as imperfect, what do you imagine or define as a perfect person?

They would have traits such as bravery, patience, respect for others and themselves. They would always be nice to other people. They would be fair.
What would be the attributes of a perfect person and which of those attributes do you lack to make you imperfect?
I lack all of those characteristics. Especially bravery, and i am mean to people.
uncung
Posts: 3,433
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9/1/2016 12:48:10 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 10:01:30 PM, Skyangel wrote:
I often read posts where writers claim they are imperfect.

I would like to ask those people who see themselves as imperfect, what do you imagine or define as a perfect person?
What would be the attributes of a perfect person and which of those attributes do you lack to make you imperfect?

None is perfect I think.
Skeptical1
Posts: 655
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9/1/2016 1:36:46 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 10:01:30 PM, Skyangel wrote:
I often read posts where writers claim they are imperfect.

I would like to ask those people who see themselves as imperfect, what do you imagine or define as a perfect person?
What would be the attributes of a perfect person and which of those attributes do you lack to make you imperfect?

Absolutely, there is no such thing as a perfect person - not even the greatest of people comes close to perfection. However, if such a person did exist, then they would exhibit compassion, friendliness, empathy, strength of convictions (but without arrogance), patience and wisdom (or the ability to consistently make correct decisions). That's just a random list off the top of my head, not particularly well thought out - there's bound to be omissions.

I think I possess all of the above to varying degrees (and most of them not enough), but unfortunately the extent to which they are exercised varies greatly from day to day. So maybe, for me, the greatest failing is lack of consistency.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,266
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9/1/2016 1:39:30 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 10:07:37 PM, janesix wrote:
At 8/31/2016 10:01:30 PM, Skyangel wrote:
I often read posts where writers claim they are imperfect.

I would like to ask those people who see themselves as imperfect, what do you imagine or define as a perfect person?

They would have traits such as bravery, patience, respect for others and themselves. They would always be nice to other people. They would be fair.

I have all of those... yet, i don't think i am prefect. To always be brave will bring about arrogance, sometimes. To always be patient is boring. To always respect others would be foolish... to always respect myself would turn narcissistic and to be nice to everyone can make you into a sheep. Basically, i learned all that from my opposite... the person you are trying to paint as imperfect.

What would be the attributes of a perfect person and which of those attributes do you lack to make you imperfect?
I lack all of those characteristics. Especially bravery, and i am mean to people.

I don't really think bravery is something great. I just have it but wouldn't care if i didn't... yet, how would i really know that anyways. You may initially be mean to me, but i am sure i would be able to dig up your good side... unless you really have none, which, wouldn't be a bad thing either... you would just be alone; therefore not harming me anyways (i tend to ignore those that i find worthless of anymore of my attention). Nevertheless, i am attracted to people that have the opposite qualities that i do, not all people, but the ones that deserve my respect.

When dating. An impatient girl usually can get on my nerves, but it still brings about unexpected fun. I don't need her to be brave, i can do that... plus, i don't like the wonder women type - nerdy is perfect. I wouldn't get to hear all the gossip if she respected everyone... I like hearing some manipulation and/or seduction so i can work on my own brand of reverse psychology. I like helping her respect herself... and, being around me, she would feel pretty awkward if she was mean to everyone... goes back to the reverse psychology thingy.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,266
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9/1/2016 1:42:17 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 10:01:30 PM, Skyangel wrote:
I often read posts where writers claim they are imperfect.

I would like to ask those people who see themselves as imperfect, what do you imagine or define as a perfect person?
What would be the attributes of a perfect person and which of those attributes do you lack to make you imperfect?

I guess i look at it differently than a theist bc i think i am pretty perfect; however, i also believe i am imperfect for the fact that i can get better.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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9/14/2016 6:25:51 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 8/31/2016 10:07:37 PM, janesix wrote:
At 8/31/2016 10:01:30 PM, Skyangel wrote:
I often read posts where writers claim they are imperfect.

I would like to ask those people who see themselves as imperfect, what do you imagine or define as a perfect person?

They would have traits such as bravery, patience, respect for others and themselves. They would always be nice to other people. They would be fair.
What would be the attributes of a perfect person and which of those attributes do you lack to make you imperfect?
I lack all of those characteristics. Especially bravery, and i am mean to people.

I don't believe anyone lacks the positive traits you listed.
I think negative traits are also needed at times. They all have their place.
I think a balance of positive and negative traits is what makes people perfect.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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9/14/2016 6:27:10 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/1/2016 12:48:10 AM, uncung wrote:
At 8/31/2016 10:01:30 PM, Skyangel wrote:
I often read posts where writers claim they are imperfect.

I would like to ask those people who see themselves as imperfect, what do you imagine or define as a perfect person?
What would be the attributes of a perfect person and which of those attributes do you lack to make you imperfect?

None is perfect I think.

Why don't you think so ?

You have not described what you perceive as being perfect.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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9/14/2016 6:34:06 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/1/2016 1:36:46 AM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 8/31/2016 10:01:30 PM, Skyangel wrote:
I often read posts where writers claim they are imperfect.

I would like to ask those people who see themselves as imperfect, what do you imagine or define as a perfect person?
What would be the attributes of a perfect person and which of those attributes do you lack to make you imperfect?

Absolutely, there is no such thing as a perfect person - not even the greatest of people comes close to perfection. However, if such a person did exist, then they would exhibit compassion, friendliness, empathy, strength of convictions (but without arrogance), patience and wisdom (or the ability to consistently make correct decisions). That's just a random list off the top of my head, not particularly well thought out - there's bound to be omissions.

I think I possess all of the above to varying degrees (and most of them not enough), but unfortunately the extent to which they are exercised varies greatly from day to day. So maybe, for me, the greatest failing is lack of consistency.

I think all people possess all of your listed attributes to varying degrees. I think the extent that they are needed daily also varies from day to day and from one situation to the next so we all need to adapt.
Consistency is a subjective matter. Human emotions are like the wind and weather, very changeable but they are consistently changeable. If we never changed, we would be very dull and boring people. It would be like having the exact same weather every day.... That would be unnatural and imperfect.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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9/14/2016 6:45:05 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/1/2016 1:42:17 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 8/31/2016 10:01:30 PM, Skyangel wrote:
I often read posts where writers claim they are imperfect.

I would like to ask those people who see themselves as imperfect, what do you imagine or define as a perfect person?
What would be the attributes of a perfect person and which of those attributes do you lack to make you imperfect?

I guess i look at it differently than a theist bc i think i am pretty perfect; however, i also believe i am imperfect for the fact that i can get better.

I tend to think of perfection as a balance between opposites. I think anything is imperfect if it has no opposite sides.
Consider nature, it has summer and winter, hot and cold, etc. If it had only one of the sides it would be imperfect.
Consider a magnet and its opposite poles. It would not be a perfect magnet if it had no opposite poles.

I tend to think the idea of good without bad is imperfect because good and bad are very subjective and something that might appear to be good in one persons view, might also be bad in another persons view.
Therefore simply being what we are is as perfect as we can be.
I think that many people tend to place unrealistic expectations on themselves and put themselves down far too much.
tarantula
Posts: 849
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9/14/2016 8:04:40 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
I am far from perfect. I do my best to be good enough, which is all anyone can strive to be. Perfection would be hard to live with, I reckon.
loveymore
Posts: 64
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9/14/2016 9:15:38 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
I think perfection lays upon our creator. We are not made to be bigamous and remain just in every sense, he yet manages all those cases. Who else can do?
tarantula
Posts: 849
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9/14/2016 10:06:38 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 9:15:38 AM, loveymore wrote:
I think perfection lays upon our creator. We are not made to be bigamous and remain just in every sense, he yet manages all those cases. Who else can do?

This is nothing perfect about the Biblical god, it is evil if it actually exists.
uncung
Posts: 3,433
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9/14/2016 11:27:47 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 6:27:10 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 9/1/2016 12:48:10 AM, uncung wrote:
At 8/31/2016 10:01:30 PM, Skyangel wrote:
I often read posts where writers claim they are imperfect.

I would like to ask those people who see themselves as imperfect, what do you imagine or define as a perfect person?
What would be the attributes of a perfect person and which of those attributes do you lack to make you imperfect?

None is perfect I think.

Why don't you think so ?

You have not described what you perceive as being perfect.
can you name one person, or the thing that is claimed prefect?
for example, Lady Gaga is she perfect? why is it and why not.
or the painting of Monalisa. is it perfect ? why is it and why not.
and so on.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,649
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9/14/2016 12:52:30 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 8/31/2016 10:01:30 PM, Skyangel wrote:
I often read posts where writers claim they are imperfect.

I would like to ask those people who see themselves as imperfect, what do you imagine or define as a perfect person?

That's not a coherent notion, really. Flaws are essential to the notion of a person and personality. "Perfect" can't really be referred to as a whole, rather just in regard to specific attributes, such as reasoning or benevolence.

What would be the attributes of a perfect person and which of those attributes do you lack to make you imperfect?

Probably perfect understanding, perception, judgement, and benevolence. I am lacking in all of them. However, if all of those things are achieved, what room is there for a unique personality? Perfection is the antithesis of freedom, in my opinion.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,580
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9/14/2016 1:51:25 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 8/31/2016 10:01:30 PM, Skyangel wrote:
I often read posts where writers claim they are imperfect.

I would like to ask those people who see themselves as imperfect, what do you imagine or define as a perfect person?
What would be the attributes of a perfect person and which of those attributes do you lack to make you imperfect?

The one serious imperfection I possess is the lack of ability to see myself as anything less than perfect.

Can you see the paradox of this one?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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9/14/2016 8:47:19 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 11:27:47 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/14/2016 6:27:10 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 9/1/2016 12:48:10 AM, uncung wrote:
At 8/31/2016 10:01:30 PM, Skyangel wrote:
I often read posts where writers claim they are imperfect.

I would like to ask those people who see themselves as imperfect, what do you imagine or define as a perfect person?
What would be the attributes of a perfect person and which of those attributes do you lack to make you imperfect?

None is perfect I think.

Why don't you think so ?

You have not described what you perceive as being perfect.
can you name one person, or the thing that is claimed prefect?
for example, Lady Gaga is she perfect? why is it and why not.
or the painting of Monalisa. is it perfect ? why is it and why not.
and so on.

You still have not explained what you personally mean by the word perfect.

Whether anything is perfect in the eyes of a person depends on how they define and perceive the word.
If you define it as flawless, I am sure you can think of plenty of things which are flawless.

If you define it as whole and complete, I am sure you can think of many things which are whole and complete.

If you define it as something which is precise and accurate, plenty of things are precise and accurate.

If you define it as something which is as good as it is possible for it to be, then something which cannot improve itself must already be perfect.

My point is that the word perfect is very subjective since it is subject to human perception.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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9/14/2016 8:53:24 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 8:04:40 AM, tarantula wrote:
I am far from perfect. I do my best to be good enough, which is all anyone can strive to be. Perfection would be hard to live with, I reckon.

Good enough by whose standards?

Good enough for whom?

Have you ever learned anything from Aesop's fable " The man, the boy and the donkey" ?

http://www.experienceproject.com...
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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9/14/2016 9:01:36 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 9:15:38 AM, loveymore wrote:
I think perfection lays upon our creator. We are not made to be bigamous and remain just in every sense, he yet manages all those cases. Who else can do?

In a physical sense our creators are our parents and we are no different to them when it comes to human nature.
In the story about a God creating humans in his image, it seems to me that humans are just as hypocritical and paradoxical as the God who created them.
If the creator portrayed in the bible is perfect and created perfect humans then all humans must be perfect and cannot do anything wrong because they were all made in the image of the creator who cannot do anything wrong.
Therefore any human perception of imperfection would be nothing but an illusion or self deception created from having unrealistic expectations of oneself and others.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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9/14/2016 9:12:34 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 12:52:30 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 8/31/2016 10:01:30 PM, Skyangel wrote:
I often read posts where writers claim they are imperfect.

I would like to ask those people who see themselves as imperfect, what do you imagine or define as a perfect person?

That's not a coherent notion, really. Flaws are essential to the notion of a person and personality. "Perfect" can't really be referred to as a whole, rather just in regard to specific attributes, such as reasoning or benevolence.

Whether something is coherent or not to an individual depends on their ability to understand the concept. Something that is incoherent to one person might be perfectly coherent to another.
Human perception is obviously very subjective.

What would be the attributes of a perfect person and which of those attributes do you lack to make you imperfect?

Probably perfect understanding, perception, judgement, and benevolence. I am lacking in all of them. However, if all of those things are achieved, what room is there for a unique personality? Perfection is the antithesis of freedom, in my opinion.

How do you judge or weigh those abstract things to determine if they are perfect or not?
Eg, What do you use as a standard of perfection for human perception? Is your standard the same as that of all other humans on this planet? If not, who or what defines what a perfect perception ought to be and which ones fail to live up to that standard?

Why do you think perfection is the antithesis of freedom?
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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9/14/2016 9:24:48 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 1:51:25 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/31/2016 10:01:30 PM, Skyangel wrote:
I often read posts where writers claim they are imperfect.

I would like to ask those people who see themselves as imperfect, what do you imagine or define as a perfect person?
What would be the attributes of a perfect person and which of those attributes do you lack to make you imperfect?

The one serious imperfection I possess is the lack of ability to see myself as anything less than perfect.

Can you see the paradox of this one?

Sure I can.

I also see the paradox in the whole concept of perfection since it is a matter of subjective human perception.

That paradox is clearly portrayed in the story of the Jesus character who some saw as perfect and others saw as imperfect in the story and readers perceptions have not changed about the character over the centuries.

I find it ironic that some people fail to see imperfection in something and others fail to see perfection in the very same thing.

To be what you are is to be a perfect version of yourself regardless of other peoples judgements of you.
loveymore
Posts: 64
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9/14/2016 11:55:06 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 9:01:36 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 9/14/2016 9:15:38 AM, loveymore wrote:
I think perfection lays upon our creator. We are not made to be bigamous and remain just in every sense, he yet manages all those cases. Who else can do?

In a physical sense our creators are our parents and we are no different to them when it comes to human nature.

God is a spirit and our nature, like easily misunderstanding others, questioning something, limited memory, perception etc. makes us different. But even so, our parents are like the tools that remains all in his hands.

In the story about a God creating humans in his image, it seems to me that humans are just as hypocritical and paradoxical as the God who created them.

You think that Image and original are same somehow? We, as part of his creation, lack wholesome understanding of superiority of creation of such proportions. He possibly only took some properties of him, which he reflected on us.

If the creator portrayed in the bible is perfect and created perfect humans then all humans must be perfect and cannot do anything wrong because they were all made in the image of the creator who cannot do anything wrong.
Therefore any human perception of imperfection would be nothing but an illusion or self deception created from having unrealistic expectations of oneself and others.

I think they were perfect in a sense that they could stay within this form, and be blameless before him.. yet He still had power to judge over them, when they decided otherwise, so he have to be incomparable to their perfection.
uncung
Posts: 3,433
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9/15/2016 3:47:07 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 8:47:19 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 9/14/2016 11:27:47 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/14/2016 6:27:10 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 9/1/2016 12:48:10 AM, uncung wrote:
At 8/31/2016 10:01:30 PM, Skyangel wrote:
I often read posts where writers claim they are imperfect.

I would like to ask those people who see themselves as imperfect, what do you imagine or define as a perfect person?
What would be the attributes of a perfect person and which of those attributes do you lack to make you imperfect?

None is perfect I think.

Why don't you think so ?

You have not described what you perceive as being perfect.
can you name one person, or the thing that is claimed prefect?
for example, Lady Gaga is she perfect? why is it and why not.
or the painting of Monalisa. is it perfect ? why is it and why not.
and so on.

You still have not explained what you personally mean by the word perfect.

Whether anything is perfect in the eyes of a person depends on how they define and perceive the word.
If you define it as flawless, I am sure you can think of plenty of things which are flawless.


If you define it as whole and complete, I am sure you can think of many things which are whole and complete.


If you define it as something which is precise and accurate, plenty of things are precise and accurate.


If you define it as something which is as good as it is possible for it to be, then something which cannot improve itself must already be perfect.

My point is that the word perfect is very subjective since it is subject to human perception.

you are right. period.
tarantula
Posts: 849
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9/15/2016 10:52:20 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 8:53:24 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 9/14/2016 8:04:40 AM, tarantula wrote:
I am far from perfect. I do my best to be good enough, which is all anyone can strive to be. Perfection would be hard to live with, I reckon.

Good enough by whose standards?

Good enough for whom?

Have you ever learned anything from Aesop's fable " The man, the boy and the donkey" ?

http://www.experienceproject.com...

As long as I am good enough by MY standards that is fine by me.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,649
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9/15/2016 12:52:25 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 9:12:34 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 9/14/2016 12:52:30 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 8/31/2016 10:01:30 PM, Skyangel wrote:
I often read posts where writers claim they are imperfect.

I would like to ask those people who see themselves as imperfect, what do you imagine or define as a perfect person?

That's not a coherent notion, really. Flaws are essential to the notion of a person and personality. "Perfect" can't really be referred to as a whole, rather just in regard to specific attributes, such as reasoning or benevolence.

Whether something is coherent or not to an individual depends on their ability to understand the concept. Something that is incoherent to one person might be perfectly coherent to another.
Human perception is obviously very subjective.

I largely agree, though there are some concepts that are definitionally incoherent, such as paradoxes and contradictory propositions. Do you think that anyone could envision a square triangle, perhaps? The reason why I say that "perfect" would be incoherent is because, by definition, nothing greater/better could exist. When it comes to subjectively valued attributes (such as forgiveness), an objective designation of "perfect" isn't possible, and people may not regard a maximal attribute as "perfect". For instance, perfect forgiveness would undermine justice, since how could you justly punish one who is already forgiven?

What would be the attributes of a perfect person and which of those attributes do you lack to make you imperfect?

Probably perfect understanding, perception, judgement, and benevolence. I am lacking in all of them. However, if all of those things are achieved, what room is there for a unique personality? Perfection is the antithesis of freedom, in my opinion.

How do you judge or weigh those abstract things to determine if they are perfect or not?
Eg, What do you use as a standard of perfection for human perception? Is your standard the same as that of all other humans on this planet? If not, who or what defines what a perfect perception ought to be and which ones fail to live up to that standard?

Why do you think perfection is the antithesis of freedom?

Because it absolutely restricts thought and actions. If a being is perfect, then it's thoughts and actions would also have to be perfect, right? And if an action or thought is perfect, then there is no better action or thought that is possible, by definition. This, in turn, restricts a perfect being to only one available action and thought, because to do otherwise would be imperfect.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/1/2016 3:32:50 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 9/14/2016 11:55:06 PM, loveymore wrote:
At 9/14/2016 9:01:36 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 9/14/2016 9:15:38 AM, loveymore wrote:
I think perfection lays upon our creator. We are not made to be bigamous and remain just in every sense, he yet manages all those cases. Who else can do?

In a physical sense our creators are our parents and we are no different to them when it comes to human nature.

God is a spirit and our nature, like easily misunderstanding others, questioning something, limited memory, perception etc. makes us different. But even so, our parents are like the tools that remains all in his hands.

A spirit is not a creator of physical things. A spirit is non physical. Non physical things cannot create physical things. Physical things like humans can however create non physical things like abstract concepts of gods.
Our superstitious forefathers created the abstract god concepts and many people in this world today are still fooled and led astray by those concepts and superstitions.

In the story about a God creating humans in his image, it seems to me that humans are just as hypocritical and paradoxical as the God who created them.

You think that Image and original are same somehow? We, as part of his creation, lack wholesome understanding of superiority of creation of such proportions. He possibly only took some properties of him, which he reflected on us.

Which properties would those be?
If there was such a thing as a perfect creator who created humans in his image, that would mean that humans would be just as perfect as the creator and would be incapable of doing anything that the creator could not also do.
Can your creator sin?
If not, then sinning humans can do something the creator cannot do.
If anything perfect created something in its image, the image would be just as perfect as the original thing. If the image was imperfect, it would not be a true image of the perfect thing.

If the creator portrayed in the bible is perfect and created perfect humans then all humans must be perfect and cannot do anything wrong because they were all made in the image of the creator who cannot do anything wrong.
Therefore any human perception of imperfection would be nothing but an illusion or self deception created from having unrealistic expectations of oneself and others.

I think they were perfect in a sense that they could stay within this form, and be blameless before him.. yet He still had power to judge over them, when they decided otherwise, so he have to be incomparable to their perfection.

Garbage. Even if you grabbed a perfect diamond and held it up to a mirror to see its image, that image would not have any more or less flaws than the original diamond. The mirror image is obviously not a real diamond but it has no more flaws than the thing it is mirroring. It is just an image after all. It reflects the thing that created the image in the first place. If you look at an image of yourself in the mirror, that image does not have a mind of its own. You totally control it and it simply reflects everything you do.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/1/2016 3:35:29 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 9/15/2016 3:47:07 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/14/2016 8:47:19 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 9/14/2016 11:27:47 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/14/2016 6:27:10 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 9/1/2016 12:48:10 AM, uncung wrote:
At 8/31/2016 10:01:30 PM, Skyangel wrote:
I often read posts where writers claim they are imperfect.

I would like to ask those people who see themselves as imperfect, what do you imagine or define as a perfect person?
What would be the attributes of a perfect person and which of those attributes do you lack to make you imperfect?

None is perfect I think.

Why don't you think so ?

You have not described what you perceive as being perfect.
can you name one person, or the thing that is claimed prefect?
for example, Lady Gaga is she perfect? why is it and why not.
or the painting of Monalisa. is it perfect ? why is it and why not.
and so on.

You still have not explained what you personally mean by the word perfect.

Whether anything is perfect in the eyes of a person depends on how they define and perceive the word.
If you define it as flawless, I am sure you can think of plenty of things which are flawless.


If you define it as whole and complete, I am sure you can think of many things which are whole and complete.


If you define it as something which is precise and accurate, plenty of things are precise and accurate.


If you define it as something which is as good as it is possible for it to be, then something which cannot improve itself must already be perfect.

My point is that the word perfect is very subjective since it is subject to human perception.

you are right. period.

Yes I know.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/1/2016 3:41:46 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 9/15/2016 10:52:20 AM, tarantula wrote:
At 9/14/2016 8:53:24 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 9/14/2016 8:04:40 AM, tarantula wrote:
I am far from perfect. I do my best to be good enough, which is all anyone can strive to be. Perfection would be hard to live with, I reckon.

Good enough by whose standards?

Good enough for whom?

Have you ever learned anything from Aesop's fable " The man, the boy and the donkey" ?

http://www.experienceproject.com...

As long as I am good enough by MY standards that is fine by me.

I gather that "far from perfect" is good enough for you ?
You don't seem to think very highly of yourself.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/1/2016 3:59:04 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 9/15/2016 12:52:25 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 9/14/2016 9:12:34 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 9/14/2016 12:52:30 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 8/31/2016 10:01:30 PM, Skyangel wrote:
I often read posts where writers claim they are imperfect.

I would like to ask those people who see themselves as imperfect, what do you imagine or define as a perfect person?

That's not a coherent notion, really. Flaws are essential to the notion of a person and personality. "Perfect" can't really be referred to as a whole, rather just in regard to specific attributes, such as reasoning or benevolence.

Whether something is coherent or not to an individual depends on their ability to understand the concept. Something that is incoherent to one person might be perfectly coherent to another.
Human perception is obviously very subjective.

I largely agree, though there are some concepts that are definitionally incoherent, such as paradoxes and contradictory propositions. Do you think that anyone could envision a square triangle, perhaps? The reason why I say that "perfect" would be incoherent is because, by definition, nothing greater/better could exist. When it comes to subjectively valued attributes (such as forgiveness), an objective designation of "perfect" isn't possible, and people may not regard a maximal attribute as "perfect". For instance, perfect forgiveness would undermine justice, since how could you justly punish one who is already forgiven?

That depends on the paradoxes and contradictions. Not all of them are incoherent.
The word "perfect" and the idea of perfection is not incoherent to me. I feel sorry for you if it is incoherent to you.
To me it does not convey the idea that nothing greater or better could exist since those concepts are all relative and comparative. If you had nothing to compare them with, those concepts would be incoherent in themselves. People obviously compare things against other things and then judge which they like more or less. All humans judgements and values are subjective.

As for your question re perfect forgiveness undermining justice, the forgiven person is set free of any debt and justice is still satisfied if someone else pays the debt which is owed.
Justice only demands that the debt is paid. It does not specify who needs to pay it.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/1/2016 4:17:08 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 9/15/2016 12:52:25 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 9/14/2016 9:12:34 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Why do you think perfection is the antithesis of freedom?

Because it absolutely restricts thought and actions. If a being is perfect, then it's thoughts and actions would also have to be perfect, right? And if an action or thought is perfect, then there is no better action or thought that is possible, by definition. This, in turn, restricts a perfect being to only one available action and thought, because to do otherwise would be imperfect.

No, it does not restrict thought and action. Every thought and action is perfect in itself, regardless of whether people judge those thoughts and actions as perfectly good or perfectly evil.
Take the story of Jesus as an example. It makes no difference if you see the character as real or imaginary. The story clearly conveys that his words and actions were seen as good by some and as evil by others.
Whether the character is perfect or imperfect is a matter of subjective judgement and always will be.
Some saw him as a sinner in the story and others saw him as a saint who could do no wrong.
He was not restricted by perfection or imperfection. He was simply free to justify his own words and actions or not.