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Blown Out

s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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9/1/2016 1:42:50 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
In the doctrine of salvation, the ultimate deliverance is a release from our finite identities into infinite oneness with God. The self, or ego, is effaced; and, the one who has no image takes its place. With Hinduism and Buddhism, this is called nirvana, literally meaning "blown out" as with the blowing out of a candle. In Christianity, glorification is the final stage of salvation, in which the Christian puts off this fleshly body and enrobes oneself in the glorious splendor of God; he, or she, realizes, as St. Paul says, "...(T)his corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." This is the process of divinization, in which the Christian loses one's humanity and becomes divine. He, or she, is no longer limited in space and time; one's identity is lost in God as a drop of water is reclaimed by the Ocean. In both Eastern and Western philosophies, salvation culminates in the dissolution of the self. That which is material is made spiritual, and that which has physicality is made metaphysical.

If we consider the term, metaphysical, we come to realize our final state. God, according to most theologies, is a metaphysical being, meaning beyond space and time. There is no place in time and space in which God exists. The very process of defining something limits it; we have given meaning to that which is beyond meaning; we have made of great value that which value cannot know. There is nothing known which we can compare to God; God is beyond comparison. Our very imaginations delimit that which is unlimited. God hasn't the properties of a thing; in fact, to give God objectivity, or thingness, is to contradict God's very nature. God is not an object; God is not a thing; God is nothing, and as we lose ourselves in God, our candles are blown out; and, all that remains is eternal darkness.
Durbodh
Posts: 63
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9/1/2016 2:31:03 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/1/2016 1:42:50 PM, s-anthony wrote:
In the doctrine of salvation, the ultimate deliverance is a release from our finite identities into infinite oneness with God. The self, or ego, is effaced; and, the one who has no image takes its place. With Hinduism and Buddhism, this is called nirvana, literally meaning "blown out" as with the blowing out of a candle. In Christianity, glorification is the final stage of salvation, in which the Christian puts off this fleshly body and enrobes oneself in the glorious splendor of God; he, or she, realizes, as St. Paul says, "...(T)his corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." This is the process of divinization, in which the Christian loses one's humanity and becomes divine. He, or she, is no longer limited in space and time; one's identity is lost in God as a drop of water is reclaimed by the Ocean. In both Eastern and Western philosophies, salvation culminates in the dissolution of the self. That which is material is made spiritual, and that which has physicality is made metaphysical.

If we consider the term, metaphysical, we come to realize our final state. God, according to most theologies, is a metaphysical being, meaning beyond space and time. There is no place in time and space in which God exists. The very process of defining something limits it; we have given meaning to that which is beyond meaning; we have made of great value that which value cannot know. There is nothing known which we can compare to God; God is beyond comparison. Our very imaginations delimit that which is unlimited. God hasn't the properties of a thing; in fact, to give God objectivity, or thingness, is to contradict God's very nature. God is not an object; God is not a thing; God is nothing, and as we lose ourselves in God, our candles are blown out; and, all that remains is eternal darkness.

other than 'candles are blown' stuff, this is very well written and there is no misinformation.

WELL DONE !
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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9/1/2016 2:54:19 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/1/2016 2:31:03 PM, Durbodh wrote:
At 9/1/2016 1:42:50 PM, s-anthony wrote:
In the doctrine of salvation, the ultimate deliverance is a release from our finite identities into infinite oneness with God. The self, or ego, is effaced; and, the one who has no image takes its place. With Hinduism and Buddhism, this is called nirvana, literally meaning "blown out" as with the blowing out of a candle. In Christianity, glorification is the final stage of salvation, in which the Christian puts off this fleshly body and enrobes oneself in the glorious splendor of God; he, or she, realizes, as St. Paul says, "...(T)his corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." This is the process of divinization, in which the Christian loses one's humanity and becomes divine. He, or she, is no longer limited in space and time; one's identity is lost in God as a drop of water is reclaimed by the Ocean. In both Eastern and Western philosophies, salvation culminates in the dissolution of the self. That which is material is made spiritual, and that which has physicality is made metaphysical.

If we consider the term, metaphysical, we come to realize our final state. God, according to most theologies, is a metaphysical being, meaning beyond space and time. There is no place in time and space in which God exists. The very process of defining something limits it; we have given meaning to that which is beyond meaning; we have made of great value that which value cannot know. There is nothing known which we can compare to God; God is beyond comparison. Our very imaginations delimit that which is unlimited. God hasn't the properties of a thing; in fact, to give God objectivity, or thingness, is to contradict God's very nature. God is not an object; God is not a thing; God is nothing, and as we lose ourselves in God, our candles are blown out; and, all that remains is eternal darkness.

other than 'candles are blown' stuff, this is very well written and there is no misinformation.

WELL DONE !

I know, and there are people who do a lot of blowing, especially hot air, on this site.

Thank you.
dee-em
Posts: 6,444
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9/2/2016 12:34:05 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/1/2016 1:42:50 PM, s-anthony wrote:
In the doctrine of salvation, the ultimate deliverance is a release from our finite identities into infinite oneness with God. The self, or ego, is effaced; and, the one who has no image takes its place. With Hinduism and Buddhism, this is called nirvana, literally meaning "blown out" as with the blowing out of a candle. In Christianity, glorification is the final stage of salvation, in which the Christian puts off this fleshly body and enrobes oneself in the glorious splendor of God; he, or she, realizes, as St. Paul says, "...(T)his corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." This is the process of divinization, in which the Christian loses one's humanity and becomes divine. He, or she, is no longer limited in space and time; one's identity is lost in God as a drop of water is reclaimed by the Ocean. In both Eastern and Western philosophies, salvation culminates in the dissolution of the self. That which is material is made spiritual, and that which has physicality is made metaphysical.

If we consider the term, metaphysical, we come to realize our final state. God, according to most theologies, is a metaphysical being, meaning beyond space and time. There is no place in time and space in which God exists. The very process of defining something limits it; we have given meaning to that which is beyond meaning; we have made of great value that which value cannot know. There is nothing known which we can compare to God; God is beyond comparison. Our very imaginations delimit that which is unlimited. God hasn't the properties of a thing; in fact, to give God objectivity, or thingness, is to contradict God's very nature. God is not an object; God is not a thing; God is nothing, and as we lose ourselves in God, our candles are blown out; and, all that remains is eternal darkness.

So we die and that's it. Atheists agree with you. God is a superfluous concept.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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9/2/2016 3:41:00 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
So we die and that's it. Atheists agree with you. God is a superfluous concept.

No. I disagree. Nothing is essential to everything.

God is the totality of all things; there is nothing God is not; therefore there is nothing God is.
dee-em
Posts: 6,444
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9/2/2016 5:10:35 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 3:41:00 AM, s-anthony wrote:
So we die and that's it. Atheists agree with you. God is a superfluous concept.

No. I disagree. Nothing is essential to everything.

Incoherent. You claimed "God is nothing, and as we lose ourselves in God, our candles are blown out; and, all that remains is eternal darkness". That sounds like death is final to me. Exactly what atheists believe.

God is the totality of all things; there is nothing God is not; therefore there is nothing God is.

So God is nothing but also the totality of all things simultaneously. You don't see a contradiction? You're just another theist (or maybe deist) trying to equate God with the universe (everything). What is the point? We already have a perfectly good word for "universe".
Willows
Posts: 2,031
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9/2/2016 11:34:21 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 3:41:00 AM, s-anthony wrote:
So we die and that's it. Atheists agree with you. God is a superfluous concept.

No. I disagree. Nothing is essential to everything.

God is the totality of all things; there is nothing God is not; therefore there is nothing God is.

God is Dog spelt back to front, nothing more, nothing less.
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
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9/2/2016 12:06:04 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/1/2016 1:42:50 PM, s-anthony wrote:
In the doctrine of salvation, the ultimate deliverance is a release from our finite identities into infinite oneness with God. The self, or ego, is effaced; and, the one who has no image takes its place. With Hinduism and Buddhism, this is called nirvana, literally meaning "blown out" as with the blowing out of a candle. In Christianity, glorification is the final stage of salvation, in which the Christian puts off this fleshly body and enrobes oneself in the glorious splendor of God; he, or she, realizes, as St. Paul says, "...(T)his corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." This is the process of divinization, in which the Christian loses one's humanity and becomes divine. He, or she, is no longer limited in space and time; one's identity is lost in God as a drop of water is reclaimed by the Ocean. In both Eastern and Western philosophies, salvation culminates in the dissolution of the self. That which is material is made spiritual, and that which has physicality is made metaphysical.

If we consider the term, metaphysical, we come to realize our final state. God, according to most theologies, is a metaphysical being, meaning beyond space and time. There is no place in time and space in which God exists. The very process of defining something limits it; we have given meaning to that which is beyond meaning; we have made of great value that which value cannot know. There is nothing known which we can compare to God; God is beyond comparison. Our very imaginations delimit that which is unlimited. God hasn't the properties of a thing; in fact, to give God objectivity, or thingness, is to contradict God's very nature. God is not an object; God is not a thing; God is nothing, and as we lose ourselves in God, our candles are blown out; and, all that remains is eternal darkness.

I kept waiting for the place where I would disagree and it never came. Is this your current personal belief or are you just brain surfing?
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
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9/2/2016 12:08:31 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 11:34:21 AM, Willows wrote:
At 9/2/2016 3:41:00 AM, s-anthony wrote:
So we die and that's it. Atheists agree with you. God is a superfluous concept.

No. I disagree. Nothing is essential to everything.

God is the totality of all things; there is nothing God is not; therefore there is nothing God is.

God is Dog spelt back to front, nothing more, nothing less.

And when you reach the intellectual level to deal, not with just the word, but the concept the word represents, let us know and we will stop thinking debate with you would be like debating mushroom.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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9/2/2016 12:41:30 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Incoherent. You claimed "God is nothing, and as we lose ourselves in God, our candles are blown out; and, all that remains is eternal darkness". That sounds like death is final to me. Exactly what atheists believe.

That is not the reason I'm disagreeing with you. The reason I disagree is because you said, "God is a superfluous concept." How is nothing a superfluous concept? Without it, nothing would exist. In other words, how can you have an infinite something, a something which is not contrasted by that which it is not?

So God is nothing but also the totality of all things simultaneously. You don't see a contradiction?

Yes. I definitely see a contradiction. Without contradiction, there would be no disagreement; and, without disagreement, there would be no individualism. All things being one would have no individual identities.

You're just another theist (or maybe deist) trying to equate God with the universe (everything). What is the point? We already have a perfectly good word for "universe".

The universe is a collection of all things. Without our perception of individuality, there would be no collection.

God is not a collection of all things; God is one. God is not a thing; God is nothing.

Science is concerned with quantification; it's concerned with measurements, division. Faith is concerned with mystery, the unknown, and all things existing as one.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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9/2/2016 12:46:16 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 12:06:04 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 9/1/2016 1:42:50 PM, s-anthony wrote:
In the doctrine of salvation, the ultimate deliverance is a release from our finite identities into infinite oneness with God. The self, or ego, is effaced; and, the one who has no image takes its place. With Hinduism and Buddhism, this is called nirvana, literally meaning "blown out" as with the blowing out of a candle. In Christianity, glorification is the final stage of salvation, in which the Christian puts off this fleshly body and enrobes oneself in the glorious splendor of God; he, or she, realizes, as St. Paul says, "...(T)his corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." This is the process of divinization, in which the Christian loses one's humanity and becomes divine. He, or she, is no longer limited in space and time; one's identity is lost in God as a drop of water is reclaimed by the Ocean. In both Eastern and Western philosophies, salvation culminates in the dissolution of the self. That which is material is made spiritual, and that which has physicality is made metaphysical.

If we consider the term, metaphysical, we come to realize our final state. God, according to most theologies, is a metaphysical being, meaning beyond space and time. There is no place in time and space in which God exists. The very process of defining something limits it; we have given meaning to that which is beyond meaning; we have made of great value that which value cannot know. There is nothing known which we can compare to God; God is beyond comparison. Our very imaginations delimit that which is unlimited. God hasn't the properties of a thing; in fact, to give God objectivity, or thingness, is to contradict God's very nature. God is not an object; God is not a thing; God is nothing, and as we lose ourselves in God, our candles are blown out; and, all that remains is eternal darkness.

I kept waiting for the place where I would disagree and it never came. Is this your current personal belief or are you just brain surfing?

I believe it's both.
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
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9/2/2016 2:28:53 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 12:46:16 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 9/2/2016 12:06:04 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 9/1/2016 1:42:50 PM, s-anthony wrote:
In the doctrine of salvation, the ultimate deliverance is a release from our finite identities into infinite oneness with God. The self, or ego, is effaced; and, the one who has no image takes its place. With Hinduism and Buddhism, this is called nirvana, literally meaning "blown out" as with the blowing out of a candle. In Christianity, glorification is the final stage of salvation, in which the Christian puts off this fleshly body and enrobes oneself in the glorious splendor of God; he, or she, realizes, as St. Paul says, "...(T)his corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." This is the process of divinization, in which the Christian loses one's humanity and becomes divine. He, or she, is no longer limited in space and time; one's identity is lost in God as a drop of water is reclaimed by the Ocean. In both Eastern and Western philosophies, salvation culminates in the dissolution of the self. That which is material is made spiritual, and that which has physicality is made metaphysical.

If we consider the term, metaphysical, we come to realize our final state. God, according to most theologies, is a metaphysical being, meaning beyond space and time. There is no place in time and space in which God exists. The very process of defining something limits it; we have given meaning to that which is beyond meaning; we have made of great value that which value cannot know. There is nothing known which we can compare to God; God is beyond comparison. Our very imaginations delimit that which is unlimited. God hasn't the properties of a thing; in fact, to give God objectivity, or thingness, is to contradict God's very nature. God is not an object; God is not a thing; God is nothing, and as we lose ourselves in God, our candles are blown out; and, all that remains is eternal darkness.

I kept waiting for the place where I would disagree and it never came. Is this your current personal belief or are you just brain surfing?

I believe it's both.

My memory may be playing tricks on me but didn't you use to be atheist?
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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9/2/2016 2:34:53 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 12:08:31 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 11:34:21 AM, Willows wrote:
At 9/2/2016 3:41:00 AM, s-anthony wrote:
So we die and that's it. Atheists agree with you. God is a superfluous concept.

No. I disagree. Nothing is essential to everything.

God is the totality of all things; there is nothing God is not; therefore there is nothing God is.

God is Dog spelt back to front, nothing more, nothing less.

And when you reach the intellectual level to deal, not with just the word, but the concept the word represents, let us know and we will stop thinking debate with you would be like debating mushroom.

It is not a very difficult concept. A dog is the genetically maneuvered descendant of wolves domesticated by early man.
Whereas a god is something some guy made up.
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
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9/2/2016 2:42:10 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 2:34:53 PM, desmac wrote:
At 9/2/2016 12:08:31 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 11:34:21 AM, Willows wrote:
At 9/2/2016 3:41:00 AM, s-anthony wrote:
So we die and that's it. Atheists agree with you. God is a superfluous concept.

No. I disagree. Nothing is essential to everything.

God is the totality of all things; there is nothing God is not; therefore there is nothing God is.

God is Dog spelt back to front, nothing more, nothing less.

And when you reach the intellectual level to deal, not with just the word, but the concept the word represents, let us know and we will stop thinking debate with you would be like debating mushroom.

It is not a very difficult concept.

And yet both you and willow watched it zoom over your heads. Interesting. And to what does the "it" in your comment above refer? What is not a difficult concept? I ask because I think this is yet another case of an atheist playinging fast and loose with articles.

A dog is the genetically maneuvered descendant of wolves domesticated by early man.

Whereas a god is something some guy made up.

What I said to willow? Ditto to you. But substitute eggplant for mushroom.
dee-em
Posts: 6,444
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9/2/2016 2:42:14 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 12:41:30 PM, s-anthony wrote:

Incoherent. You claimed "God is nothing, and as we lose ourselves in God, our candles are blown out; and, all that remains is eternal darkness". That sounds like death is final to me. Exactly what atheists believe.

That is not the reason I'm disagreeing with you.

Okay.

The reason I disagree is because you said, "God is a superfluous concept." How is nothing a superfluous concept?

I forgot you were equating God with nothing. That's the problem you see. We already have a word for nothing. It's "nothing". How does renaming nothing to be God aid in understanding rather than confuse the hell out of things?

Without it, nothing would exist.

Non sequitur.

In other words, how can you have an infinite something, a something which is not contrasted by that which it is not?

Why is contrast required or even interesting? And because you think you can imagine the concept of nothing (which I doubt since you choose to equate it with God) what possible relevance does it have?

So God is nothing but also the totality of all things simultaneously. You don't see a contradiction?

Yes. I definitely see a contradiction. Without contradiction, there would be no disagreement; and, without disagreement, there would be no individualism. All things being one would have no individual identities.

What? Another non sequitur. You can have disagreement without a logical contradiction. Besides, if you are in disagreement with yourself by virtue of holding two contradictory positions simultaneously then you may need to seek some professional help. No offense intended.

You're just another theist (or maybe deist) trying to equate God with the universe (everything). What is the point? We already have a perfectly good word for "universe".

The universe is a collection of all things. Without our perception of individuality, there would be no collection.

I fail to see the relevance to anything I said above.

God is not a collection of all things; God is one. God is not a thing; God is nothing.

*sigh* More incoherence.

Science is concerned with quantification; it's concerned with measurements, division. Faith is concerned with mystery, the unknown, and all things existing as one.

So you don't like individual identity? Okay, whatever. Lol.

A correction though. Science is concerned with understanding reality. Faith is concerned with disregarding reality and making a virtue of ignorance.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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9/2/2016 2:43:19 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 2:42:10 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 2:34:53 PM, desmac wrote:
At 9/2/2016 12:08:31 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 11:34:21 AM, Willows wrote:
At 9/2/2016 3:41:00 AM, s-anthony wrote:
So we die and that's it. Atheists agree with you. God is a superfluous concept.

No. I disagree. Nothing is essential to everything.

God is the totality of all things; there is nothing God is not; therefore there is nothing God is.

God is Dog spelt back to front, nothing more, nothing less.

And when you reach the intellectual level to deal, not with just the word, but the concept the word represents, let us know and we will stop thinking debate with you would be like debating mushroom.

It is not a very difficult concept.

And yet both you and willow watched it zoom over your heads. Interesting. And to what does the "it" in your comment above refer? What is not a difficult concept? I ask because I think this is yet another case of an atheist playinging fast and loose with articles.

A dog is the genetically maneuvered descendant of wolves domesticated by early man.

Whereas a god is something some guy made up.

What I said to willow? Ditto to you. But substitute eggplant for mushroom.

I am sure you mean aubergine.
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
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9/2/2016 4:03:13 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 2:43:19 PM, desmac wrote:
At 9/2/2016 2:42:10 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 2:34:53 PM, desmac wrote:
At 9/2/2016 12:08:31 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 11:34:21 AM, Willows wrote:
At 9/2/2016 3:41:00 AM, s-anthony wrote:
So we die and that's it. Atheists agree with you. God is a superfluous concept.

No. I disagree. Nothing is essential to everything.

God is the totality of all things; there is nothing God is not; therefore there is nothing God is.

God is Dog spelt back to front, nothing more, nothing less.

And when you reach the intellectual level to deal, not with just the word, but the concept the word represents, let us know and we will stop thinking debate with you would be like debating mushroom.

It is not a very difficult concept.

And yet both you and willow watched it zoom over your heads. Interesting. And to what does the "it" in your comment above refer? What is not a difficult concept? I ask because I think this is yet another case of an atheist playinging fast and loose with articles.

A dog is the genetically maneuvered descendant of wolves domesticated by early man.

Whereas a god is something some guy made up.

What I said to willow? Ditto to you. But substitute eggplant for mushroom.


I am sure you mean aubergine.

He didn't answer the questions. Who's surprised?
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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9/2/2016 4:08:55 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 4:03:13 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 2:43:19 PM, desmac wrote:
At 9/2/2016 2:42:10 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 2:34:53 PM, desmac wrote:
At 9/2/2016 12:08:31 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 11:34:21 AM, Willows wrote:
At 9/2/2016 3:41:00 AM, s-anthony wrote:
So we die and that's it. Atheists agree with you. God is a superfluous concept.

No. I disagree. Nothing is essential to everything.

God is the totality of all things; there is nothing God is not; therefore there is nothing God is.

God is Dog spelt back to front, nothing more, nothing less.

And when you reach the intellectual level to deal, not with just the word, but the concept the word represents, let us know and we will stop thinking debate with you would be like debating mushroom.

It is not a very difficult concept.

And yet both you and willow watched it zoom over your heads. Interesting. And to what does the "it" in your comment above refer? What is not a difficult concept? I ask because I think this is yet another case of an atheist playinging fast and loose with articles.

A dog is the genetically maneuvered descendant of wolves domesticated by early man.

Whereas a god is something some guy made up.

What I said to willow? Ditto to you. But substitute eggplant for mushroom.


I am sure you mean aubergine.

He didn't answer the questions. Who's surprised?

I am certainly not surprised, as you didn't address a question to me.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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9/2/2016 4:12:40 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 2:28:53 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 12:46:16 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 9/2/2016 12:06:04 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 9/1/2016 1:42:50 PM, s-anthony wrote:
In the doctrine of salvation, the ultimate deliverance is a release from our finite identities into infinite oneness with God. The self, or ego, is effaced; and, the one who has no image takes its place. With Hinduism and Buddhism, this is called nirvana, literally meaning "blown out" as with the blowing out of a candle. In Christianity, glorification is the final stage of salvation, in which the Christian puts off this fleshly body and enrobes oneself in the glorious splendor of God; he, or she, realizes, as St. Paul says, "...(T)his corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." This is the process of divinization, in which the Christian loses one's humanity and becomes divine. He, or she, is no longer limited in space and time; one's identity is lost in God as a drop of water is reclaimed by the Ocean. In both Eastern and Western philosophies, salvation culminates in the dissolution of the self. That which is material is made spiritual, and that which has physicality is made metaphysical.

If we consider the term, metaphysical, we come to realize our final state. God, according to most theologies, is a metaphysical being, meaning beyond space and time. There is no place in time and space in which God exists. The very process of defining something limits it; we have given meaning to that which is beyond meaning; we have made of great value that which value cannot know. There is nothing known which we can compare to God; God is beyond comparison. Our very imaginations delimit that which is unlimited. God hasn't the properties of a thing; in fact, to give God objectivity, or thingness, is to contradict God's very nature. God is not an object; God is not a thing; God is nothing, and as we lose ourselves in God, our candles are blown out; and, all that remains is eternal darkness.

I kept waiting for the place where I would disagree and it never came. Is this your current personal belief or are you just brain surfing?

I believe it's both.

My memory may be playing tricks on me but didn't you use to be atheist?

No.
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
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9/2/2016 5:14:52 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 4:08:55 PM, desmac wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:03:13 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 2:43:19 PM, desmac wrote:
At 9/2/2016 2:42:10 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 2:34:53 PM, desmac wrote:
At 9/2/2016 12:08:31 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 11:34:21 AM, Willows wrote:
At 9/2/2016 3:41:00 AM, s-anthony wrote:
So we die and that's it. Atheists agree with you. God is a superfluous concept.

No. I disagree. Nothing is essential to everything.

God is the totality of all things; there is nothing God is not; therefore there is nothing God is.

God is Dog spelt back to front, nothing more, nothing less.

And when you reach the intellectual level to deal, not with just the word, but the concept the word represents, let us know and we will stop thinking debate with you would be like debating mushroom.

It is not a very difficult concept.

And yet both you and willow watched it zoom over your heads. Interesting. And to what does the "it" in your comment above refer? What is not a difficult concept? I ask because I think this is yet another case of an atheist playinging fast and loose with articles.

A dog is the genetically maneuvered descendant of wolves domesticated by early man.

Whereas a god is something some guy made up.

What I said to willow? Ditto to you. But substitute eggplant for mushroom.


I am sure you mean aubergine.

He didn't answer the questions. Who's surprised?

I am certainly not surprised, as you didn't address a question to me.

And to what does the "it" in your comment above refer? What is not a difficult concept?

No worries. We already know that militant atheists can only see the questions they ask.
s-anthony
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9/2/2016 5:20:37 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
I forgot you were equating God with nothing. That's the problem you see. We already have a word for nothing. It's "nothing". How does renaming nothing to be God aid in understanding rather than confuse the hell out of things?

It's not renaming nothing. God has always been associated with nothing. Since the beginning of abstract thought, people have used God or the spirit world to explain the unknown. By definition, that which is metaphysical is undetectable by the physical senses; that which is metaphysical is indescribable using the property of objectivity. These are not new conjectures; these are very old speculations. Possibly, as old as civilization, itself.

Why is contrast required or even interesting?

Do you honestly believe you can have definition or distinction without contrast?

And because you think you can imagine the concept of nothing (which I doubt since you choose to equate it with God) what possible relevance does it have?

Try having an imagination without it and, then, you tell me.

What? Another non sequitur. You can have disagreement without a logical contradiction. Besides, if you are in disagreement with yourself by virtue of holding two contradictory positions simultaneously then you may need to seek some professional help. No offense intended.

This is a contradiction: that which is is that which isn't. If I say something is and you say it isn't, we are contradicting each other.

So you don't like individual identity? Okay, whatever. Lol.

When did I say that?
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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9/2/2016 5:27:43 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 5:14:52 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:08:55 PM, desmac wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:03:13 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 2:43:19 PM, desmac wrote:
At 9/2/2016 2:42:10 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 2:34:53 PM, desmac wrote:
At 9/2/2016 12:08:31 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 11:34:21 AM, Willows wrote:
At 9/2/2016 3:41:00 AM, s-anthony wrote:
So we die and that's it. Atheists agree with you. God is a superfluous concept.

No. I disagree. Nothing is essential to everything.

God is the totality of all things; there is nothing God is not; therefore there is nothing God is.

God is Dog spelt back to front, nothing more, nothing less.

And when you reach the intellectual level to deal, not with just the word, but the concept the word represents, let us know and we will stop thinking debate with you would be like debating mushroom.

It is not a very difficult concept.

And yet both you and willow watched it zoom over your heads. Interesting. And to what does the "it" in your comment above refer? What is not a difficult concept? I ask because I think this is yet another case of an atheist playinging fast and loose with articles.

A dog is the genetically maneuvered descendant of wolves domesticated by early man.

Whereas a god is something some guy made up.

What I said to willow? Ditto to you. But substitute eggplant for mushroom.


I am sure you mean aubergine.

He didn't answer the questions. Who's surprised?

I am certainly not surprised, as you didn't address a question to me.

And to what does the "it" in your comment above refer? What is not a difficult concept?

No worries. We already know that militant atheists can only see the questions they ask.

I think militant christians should check on who they are questioning. LMAO
Willows
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9/3/2016 12:17:04 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 12:08:31 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 11:34:21 AM, Willows wrote:
At 9/2/2016 3:41:00 AM, s-anthony wrote:
So we die and that's it. Atheists agree with you. God is a superfluous concept.

No. I disagree. Nothing is essential to everything.

God is the totality of all things; there is nothing God is not; therefore there is nothing God is.

God is Dog spelt back to front, nothing more, nothing less.

And when you reach the intellectual level to deal, not with just the word, but the concept the word represents, let us know and we will stop thinking debate with you would be like debating mushroom.

"God is the totality of all things; there is nothing God is not; therefore there is nothing God is."...hardly represents the pinnacle of intellectual capacity. To drop down to such a level one would have to have half of one's brain removed.
dee-em
Posts: 6,444
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9/3/2016 12:58:22 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 5:20:37 PM, s-anthony wrote:

I forgot you were equating God with nothing. That's the problem you see. We already have a word for nothing. It's "nothing". How does renaming nothing to be God aid in understanding rather than confuse the hell out of things?

It's not renaming nothing. God has always been associated with nothing.

Don't be absurd. Are you just going to make stuff up now?

Since the beginning of abstract thought, people have used God or the spirit world to explain the unknown.

What does that have to do with God being associated with nothing?

By definition, that which is metaphysical is undetectable by the physical senses; that which is metaphysical is indescribable using the property of objectivity. These are not new conjectures; these are very old speculations. Possibly, as old as civilization, itself.

That is just word salad. There is no such thing as the "property of objectivity". You string words together and pretend you are saying something but in reality you are only babbling.

Regardless, none of the above in any way supports your absurd assertion that God has always been associated with nothing.

Why is contrast required or even interesting?

Do you honestly believe you can have definition or distinction without contrast?

Of course. Look in a dictionary sometime. There are literally thousands of definitions which don't require contrast. Lol.

And because you think you can imagine the concept of nothing (which I doubt since you choose to equate it with God) what possible relevance does it have?

Try having an imagination without it and, then, you tell me.

Your response has no connection to anything I wrote. Imagination is not possible without the concept of nothing? Yet another non sequitur.

What? Another non sequitur. You can have disagreement without a logical contradiction. Besides, if you are in disagreement with yourself by virtue of holding two contradictory positions simultaneously then you may need to seek some professional help. No offense intended.

This is a contradiction: that which is is that which isn't.

And your profound point is what exactly? This syntactically ambiguous statement has nothing to do with what we were discussing, namely you holding two contradictory positions simultaneously: that God is both nothing and the sum total of everything.

If I say something is and you say it isn't, we are contradicting each other.

Your reading comprehension is poor. You were contradicting yourself as explained above. There is an element of madness in that.

So you don't like individual identity? Okay, whatever. Lol.

When did I say that?

Try reading your own posts occasionally. Lol.

You could start with post #10:

All things being one would have no individual identities.

Faith is concerned with mystery, the unknown, and all things existing as one.


If you weren't trying to say that your faith was about losing individuality (and often it is extremely difficult to tell what you are getting at) then please enlighten us. I'm not sure I'm all that interested though, to be fair.
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
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9/3/2016 2:05:00 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 12:08:31 PM, ethang5 wrote:
but the concept the word represents
The word represents the theists fear of death, nothing more or less, they inherit that from their caveman ancestors.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Casten
Posts: 391
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9/3/2016 2:52:26 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
I don't think I've ever met a theist who would agree with the words "God is nothing." I suppose if you mean it in an absolutely literal sense, as you've spelled out, nothing meaning "not a thing"... but if we reduce words to their bare etymology, my cat is an atheist.
Casten
Posts: 391
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9/3/2016 3:07:48 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/3/2016 2:05:00 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/2/2016 12:08:31 PM, ethang5 wrote:
but the concept the word represents
The word represents the theists fear of death, nothing more or less, they inherit that from their caveman ancestors.

Pfft. Like they have the monopoly on being afraid to die. I'm hella scared to die. I sure as crap inherited that from my caveman ancestors. Only time I'm not afraid to die is when I'm in excruciating pain. Then I'm like, "You know what, death sounds great right now. Serve me up a bowl of death with a side of death, to go."
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
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9/3/2016 3:29:27 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/3/2016 3:07:48 PM, Casten wrote:
At 9/3/2016 2:05:00 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/2/2016 12:08:31 PM, ethang5 wrote:
but the concept the word represents
The word represents the theists fear of death, nothing more or less, they inherit that from their caveman ancestors.

Pfft. Like they have the monopoly on being afraid to die. I'm hella scared to die. I sure as crap inherited that from my caveman ancestors. Only time I'm not afraid to die is when I'm in excruciating pain. Then I'm like, "You know what, death sounds great right now. Serve me up a bowl of death with a side of death, to go."
Why would you be afraid of death?
Ok you are 25 and are quite naturally afraid of death, I understand, you consider you have so much to live for and I hope that you do. You live a long and fulfilling life. Please.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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9/3/2016 4:09:15 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
That is just word salad. There is no such thing as the "property of objectivity". You string words together and pretend you are saying something but in reality you are only babbling

Wikipedia defines objectivity as "the state or quality of being true even outside of a subject's individual biases, interpretations, feelings, and imaginings;" and, quality and property are interchangeable terms.

So you don't like individual identity? Okay, whatever. Lol.

When did I say that?

Try reading your own posts occasionally. Lol.

You could start with post #10:

All things being one would have no individual identities.

Faith is concerned with mystery, the unknown, and all things existing as one.

Please highlight in those quotes the points at which I said I don't like individual identity.
dee-em
Posts: 6,444
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9/4/2016 2:05:52 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/3/2016 4:09:15 PM, s-anthony wrote:

I see you have resorted to dishonesty by chopping up my posts again so that you can run away from your refuted assertions. This seems to be your modus operandi.

That is just word salad. There is no such thing as the "property of objectivity". You string words together and pretend you are saying something but in reality you are only babbling

Wikipedia defines objectivity as "the state or quality of being true even outside of a subject's individual biases, interpretations, feelings, and imaginings;" and, quality and property are interchangeable terms.

You still have reading comprehension issues. I know what "objectivity" means. What I said is that there is no such thing as the "property of objectivity". Objectivity is not a property or quality possessed by objects. That would be absurd. Objectivity is itself a state or quality of being true free from bias. You are in effect saying the "property of a property". From your own source:

According to metaphysical objectivists, an object may truthfully be said to have this or that attribute, as in the statement "This object exists," whereas the statement "This object is true" or "false" is meaningless. For them, only propositions have truth values.

If only propositions have truth values and there is no such thing as properties of propositions then you are simply incoherent.

So you don't like individual identity? Okay, whatever. Lol.

When did I say that?

Try reading your own posts occasionally. Lol.

You could start with post #10:

All things being one would have no individual identities.

Faith is concerned with mystery, the unknown, and all things existing as one.


Please highlight in those quotes the points at which I said I don't like individual identity.

Perhaps if you didn't mangle my responses you might have seen this which you chose to snip out:

If you weren't trying to say that your faith was about losing individuality (and often it is extremely difficult to tell what you are getting at) then please enlighten us. I'm not sure I'm all that interested though, to be fair.