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Did God create Adam & Eve to fail ?

IRONHIDE
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9/5/2016 1:33:59 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
This post is to discuss from a biblical perspective if God designed and created Adam & Eve to fail his command not to eat of the tree of knowledge, knowing good from evil.

I will start this discussion with preliminary thought on this subject by citing the scriptural account in Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock, all the earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth."

Then as we continue to read the creation account we find this after they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil this in Genesis 3:22

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

So, a initial question would arise, given this account, is if we truly believe that God truly wanted him and his son to create man in their " Image and their likeness" and one of the likenesses of them was "knowing good and evil" was it intended for them to not be able to live up to Gods command and eat from this tree, as part of the creation process ?

With that, I will wait for response and look forward to engage in a thoughtful discussion on this topic, as there is much more to be presented for discussion, scripturally, for thought and feed back. I would ask that those who engage to believe in creation, have knowledge of scripture and cite them when applicable for points made. In addition, please use a pattern of sound words and logic and not go full retard. Thanks.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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9/5/2016 2:13:11 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/5/2016 1:33:59 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:
This post is to discuss from a biblical perspective if God designed and created Adam & Eve to fail his command not to eat of the tree of knowledge, knowing good from evil.

I will start this discussion with preliminary thought on this subject by citing the scriptural account in Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock, all the earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth."

Then as we continue to read the creation account we find this after they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil this in Genesis 3:22

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

So, a initial question would arise, given this account, is if we truly believe that God truly wanted him and his son to create man in their " Image and their likeness" and one of the likenesses of them was "knowing good and evil" was it intended for them to not be able to live up to Gods command and eat from this tree, as part of the creation process ?

With that, I will wait for response and look forward to engage in a thoughtful discussion on this topic, as there is much more to be presented for discussion, scripturally, for thought and feed back. I would ask that those who engage to believe in creation, have knowledge of scripture and cite them when applicable for points made. In addition, please use a pattern of sound words and logic and not go full retard. Thanks.

When you ask the question, do you mean literally as in the story of Genesis is true or are you referring as in the intent of the author who wrote the story?
keithprosser
Posts: 1,895
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9/5/2016 2:25:29 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
When you ask the question, do you mean literally as in the story of Genesis is true or are you referring as in the intent of the author who wrote the story?


I think the OP wants us to take the story as a true account, not as a fiction.

The OP states

if we truly believe that God truly wanted him and his son to create man in their " Image and their likeness" and one of the likenesses of them was "knowing good and evil" was it intended for them to not be able to live up to Gods command and eat from this tree, as part of the creation process ?

I do not 'truly believe that God truly wanted him and his son to create man' so I have nothing to say about the psychology of a god that I don't believe exists. I can only say something about the historical context that resulted in YHWHist priests writing what they did, and I've already done that in previous threads.
keithprosser
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9/5/2016 2:34:27 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
When you ask the question, do you mean literally as in the story of Genesis is true or are you referring as in the intent of the author who wrote the story?


I think the OP wants us to take the story as a true account, not as a fiction.

The OP states

if we truly believe that God truly wanted him and his son to create man in their " Image and their likeness" and one of the likenesses of them was "knowing good and evil" was it intended for them to not be able to live up to Gods command and eat from this tree, as part of the creation process ?

I do not 'truly believe that God truly wanted him and his son to create man' so I have nothing to say about the psychology of a god that I don't believe exists. I can only say something about the historical context that resulted in YHWHist priests writing what they did, as I've done in previous threads.
dee-em
Posts: 6,443
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9/5/2016 3:08:22 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/5/2016 1:33:59 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:
This post is to discuss from a biblical perspective if God designed and created Adam & Eve to fail his command not to eat of the tree of knowledge, knowing good from evil.

I will start this discussion with preliminary thought on this subject by citing the scriptural account in Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock, all the earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth."

Then as we continue to read the creation account we find this after they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil this in Genesis 3:22

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

So, a initial question would arise, given this account, is if we truly believe that God truly wanted him and his son to create man in their " Image and their likeness" and one of the likenesses of them was "knowing good and evil" was it intended for them to not be able to live up to Gods command and eat from this tree, as part of the creation process ?

With that, I will wait for response and look forward to engage in a thoughtful discussion on this topic, as there is much more to be presented for discussion, scripturally, for thought and feed back. I would ask that those who engage to believe in creation, have knowledge of scripture and cite them when applicable for points made. In addition, please use a pattern of sound words and logic and not go full retard. Thanks.

You may find this thread from a couple of weeks ago interesting:

http://www.debate.org...
Looncall
Posts: 438
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9/5/2016 1:03:00 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/5/2016 1:33:59 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:
This post is to discuss from a biblical perspective if God designed and created Adam & Eve to fail his command not to eat of the tree of knowledge, knowing good from evil.

I will start this discussion with preliminary thought on this subject by citing the scriptural account in Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock, all the earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth."

Then as we continue to read the creation account we find this after they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil this in Genesis 3:22

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

So, a initial question would arise, given this account, is if we truly believe that God truly wanted him and his son to create man in their " Image and their likeness" and one of the likenesses of them was "knowing good and evil" was it intended for them to not be able to live up to Gods command and eat from this tree, as part of the creation process ?

With that, I will wait for response and look forward to engage in a thoughtful discussion on this topic, as there is much more to be presented for discussion, scripturally, for thought and feed back. I would ask that those who engage to believe in creation, have knowledge of scripture and cite them when applicable for points made. In addition, please use a pattern of sound words and logic and not go full retard. Thanks.

Ableist slur noted.
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
Z_ONE
Posts: 89
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9/5/2016 1:41:39 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/5/2016 1:33:59 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:
This post is to discuss from a biblical perspective if God designed and created Adam & Eve to fail his command not to eat of the tree of knowledge, knowing good from evil.

I will start this discussion with preliminary thought on this subject by citing the scriptural account in Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock, all the earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth."

Then as we continue to read the creation account we find this after they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil this in Genesis 3:22

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

So, a initial question would arise, given this account, is if we truly believe that God truly wanted him and his son to create man in their " Image and their likeness" and one of the likenesses of them was "knowing good and evil" was it intended for them to not be able to live up to Gods command and eat from this tree, as part of the creation process ?

With that, I will wait for response and look forward to engage in a thoughtful discussion on this topic, as there is much more to be presented for discussion, scripturally, for thought and feed back. I would ask that those who engage to believe in creation, have knowledge of scripture and cite them when applicable for points made. In addition, please use a pattern of sound words and logic and not go full retard. Thanks. : :

Who is the "Our" in this passage; "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness.

It certainly wasn't a man named Jesus and the God Almighty. It was God and his Word at the beginning of creation;

John 1
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: He was in the beginning with God;
3: all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
4: In him was life, and the life was the light of men.

The Word isn't a man named Jesus who said this;

John 6
63: It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

The question is; What is SPIRIT? Once you understand what SPIRIT means, then everything can be understood.

I Colossians 1:
15: He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;
16: for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities " all things were created through him and for him.
17: He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

If you're curious to what SPIRIT and the WORD OF GOD are, then ask and you shall receive.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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9/5/2016 1:51:47 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/5/2016 1:33:59 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:
This post is to discuss from a biblical perspective if God designed and created Adam & Eve to fail his command not to eat of the tree of knowledge, knowing good from evil.

I will start this discussion with preliminary thought on this subject by citing the scriptural account in Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock, all the earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth."

Then as we continue to read the creation account we find this after they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil this in Genesis 3:22

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

So, a initial question would arise, given this account, is if we truly believe that God truly wanted him and his son to create man in their " Image and their likeness" and one of the likenesses of them was "knowing good and evil" was it intended for them to not be able to live up to Gods command and eat from this tree, as part of the creation process ?

With that, I will wait for response and look forward to engage in a thoughtful discussion on this topic, as there is much more to be presented for discussion, scripturally, for thought and feed back. I would ask that those who engage to believe in creation, have knowledge of scripture and cite them when applicable for points made. In addition, please use a pattern of sound words and logic and not go full retard. Thanks.

Yes he knew they would fail, humanity would turn against Him, and some would prove their love in the darkness. Love is only proven in darkness. He and our introduction into this darkness was to define our love for Him and His love for us. That was the plan all along. All of the darkness and wickedness will be cast away after it has fulfilled its purpose.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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Z_ONE
Posts: 89
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9/5/2016 1:59:46 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/5/2016 1:51:47 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 9/5/2016 1:33:59 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:
This post is to discuss from a biblical perspective if God designed and created Adam & Eve to fail his command not to eat of the tree of knowledge, knowing good from evil.

I will start this discussion with preliminary thought on this subject by citing the scriptural account in Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock, all the earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth."

Then as we continue to read the creation account we find this after they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil this in Genesis 3:22

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

So, a initial question would arise, given this account, is if we truly believe that God truly wanted him and his son to create man in their " Image and their likeness" and one of the likenesses of them was "knowing good and evil" was it intended for them to not be able to live up to Gods command and eat from this tree, as part of the creation process ?

With that, I will wait for response and look forward to engage in a thoughtful discussion on this topic, as there is much more to be presented for discussion, scripturally, for thought and feed back. I would ask that those who engage to believe in creation, have knowledge of scripture and cite them when applicable for points made. In addition, please use a pattern of sound words and logic and not go full retard. Thanks.

Yes he knew they would fail, humanity would turn against Him, and some would prove their love in the darkness. Love is only proven in darkness. He and our introduction into this darkness was to define our love for Him and His love for us. That was the plan all along. All of the darkness and wickedness will be cast away after it has fulfilled its purpose. : :

Isaiah 25
6: On this mountain the LORD of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of fat things, a feast of wine on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wine on the lees well refined.
7: And he will destroy on this mountain the covering that is cast over all peoples, the veil that is spread over all nations.
8: He will swallow up death for ever, and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from all faces, and the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth; for the LORD has spoken.
9: It will be said on that day, "Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, that he might save us. This is the LORD; we have waited for him; let us be glad and rejoice in his salvation."

Revelation 19
17: Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly in midheaven, "Come, gather for the great supper of God,
18: to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great."
19: And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who sits upon the horse and against his army.
20: And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulphur.
21: And the rest were slain by the sword of him who sits upon the horse, the sword that issues from his mouth; and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.

Revelation 21
8: But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death."

In other words, all flesh of man ( inhabitants ) will be burned up by the Fire of God.

Zephaniah 1
18: Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the LORD. In the fire of his jealous wrath, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full, yea, sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.

Then a New Heaven and Earth will begin.

Revelation 21
1: Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.

Ecclesiastes 1
4: A generation goes, and a generation comes, but the earth remains for ever.
IRONHIDE
Posts: 326
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9/6/2016 1:28:05 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/5/2016 1:41:39 PM, Z_ONE wrote:
At 9/5/2016 1:33:59 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:
This post is to discuss from a biblical perspective if God designed and created Adam & Eve to fail his command not to eat of the tree of knowledge, knowing good from evil.

I will start this discussion with preliminary thought on this subject by citing the scriptural account in Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock, all the earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth."

Then as we continue to read the creation account we find this after they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil this in Genesis 3:22

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

So, a initial question would arise, given this account, is if we truly believe that God truly wanted him and his son to create man in their " Image and their likeness" and one of the likenesses of them was "knowing good and evil" was it intended for them to not be able to live up to Gods command and eat from this tree, as part of the creation process ?

With that, I will wait for response and look forward to engage in a thoughtful discussion on this topic, as there is much more to be presented for discussion, scripturally, for thought and feed back. I would ask that those who engage to believe in creation, have knowledge of scripture and cite them when applicable for points made. In addition, please use a pattern of sound words and logic and not go full retard. Thanks. : :

Who is the "Our" in this passage; "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness.

"Our" is the Father who is "God" and is Spirit. The other one with "God" at that time was also a spirit being that was his "Son" also know as the "Word" or "Logos"

It certainly wasn't a man named Jesus and the God Almighty. It was God and his Word at the beginning of creation;

I agree the "Word" Was not the "man Jesus" as the "Word" had not yet became flesh and dwelt amongst men as stated in John 14 " And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth

John 1
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

This verse in no way implies or proves any CO-equality to the Father by the other Spirit being in the "Our" that Trinitarians like to cite and would gladly debate you or any one on this topic on a separate thread or a debate forum, if this position is being implied and held by any in this discussion.

2: He was in the beginning with God;

He/"the word" was in the beginning with God at the time of the creation process. Not just the beginning of earths creation, but also with God at the time all the celestial angels were created, even the creation of Satan, the adversary. However, He was not always with God, this Spirit that was with God at the time of the beginning of creation was also created himself, by God.

3: all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.

All things were made by him/"the word" after he was created.

4: In him was life, and the life was the light of men.

In him was life ( The breath and spirit of life from God himself was in him and every aspect of God, in which he observed and learned from God as described in Proverbs 8 ) and the life was the light of men .

The Word isn't a man named Jesus who said this;

Again, the "word" at that time had not yet become flesh and was not a man named Jesus. I certainly did not imply nor say this in my original post.

John 6
63: It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

The question is; What is SPIRIT? Once you understand what SPIRIT means, then everything can be understood.

God himself is "Spirit" and it is his spirit that sustains all and must be worshiped in spirit and in truth. ( which that in its self would make a good discussion, coming to an understanding what " spirit and truth " means that God must be worshiped in.

I Colossians 1:
15: He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;
16: for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities " all things were created through him and for him.
17: He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Indeed. Pretty self explanatory, in which I agree and my previous statements coincide with these scriptures you cite.
If you're curious to what SPIRIT and the WORD OF GOD are, then ask and you shall receive.

These are brief replies to your response and deserve a more in depth reply, in which I would be glad to further engage in. However, for tonight, I have things to tend to and will check back in later, when time allows and continue to respond to all reply's.

Thanks for your thoughts!
Harikrish
Posts: 11,003
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9/6/2016 1:43:40 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/5/2016 1:33:59 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:
This post is to discuss from a biblical perspective if God designed and created Adam & Eve to fail his command not to eat of the tree of knowledge, knowing good from evil.

I will start this discussion with preliminary thought on this subject by citing the scriptural account in Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock, all the earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth."

Then as we continue to read the creation account we find this after they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil this in Genesis 3:22

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

So, a initial question would arise, given this account, is if we truly believe that God truly wanted him and his son to create man in their " Image and their likeness" and one of the likenesses of them was "knowing good and evil" was it intended for them to not be able to live up to Gods command and eat from this tree, as part of the creation process ?

With that, I will wait for response and look forward to engage in a thoughtful discussion on this topic, as there is much more to be presented for discussion, scripturally, for thought and feed back. I would ask that those who engage to believe in creation, have knowledge of scripture and cite them when applicable for points made. In addition, please use a pattern of sound words and logic and not go full retard. Thanks.

If God created man in His image, it makes no sense that He would be upset with Adam for becoming like Him. " "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "
One would expect He would encourage His creation to become like Him.
It is the evil part that God was afraid of that now also became a part of Adam and like God man too became capable of great evil. God's first reaction was to punish his creation. Then He tried to destroy His creation with a giant flood.

Evidence that proves God is not very bright and the fruit (Jesus) did not fall too far from the tree.

1. God left a talking serpent in the Garden with Adam and Eve who ruined God's creation agenda.
2. God cursed the talking serpent along with his creation.
3. He then tried to wipe out his creation with a giant flood save for Noah and family and all those who could fit on a boat.

Then He tried to save his creation with the same dumb approach he used to destroy it.

1. He told the prophets he was going to send His son Jesus who was going to be rejected and put to death by the Jews.

2. God sent Jesus to save the Jews knowing Jesus would be rejected and put to death.

3. Jesus was put to death according to God's will, the Jews were not save.

4. How did God's plan help the Jews? it made their situation worse and they were slaughtered by the Romans for trying to save their temple from being desecrated by the same Romans.

"When the Romans conquered the city of Jerusalem and entered it , their pagan soldiers entered the temple, (defiling it according to Jewish Law), tore down Jewish ornaments and temple accoutrements, and raised in stead the pagan symbols and Roman standards.
Some suggest the abomination was fulfilled when Roman standards and pagan symbols were placed in the temple."

It was the desecration of the temple by the Romans that led to the abomination of desolation and not the crucifixion of Jesus which happened 4 decades earlier.

So by trying to save his creation God was also inadvertently setting it up for destruction.

Jesus blamed both God and the Jews for his demise. Paradoxically he was sent to save the Jews.

John 23:34 Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.

Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").
IRONHIDE
Posts: 326
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9/6/2016 2:40:54 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/5/2016 1:51:47 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 9/5/2016 1:33:59 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:
This post is to discuss from a biblical perspective if God designed and created Adam & Eve to fail his command not to eat of the tree of knowledge, knowing good from evil.

I will start this discussion with preliminary thought on this subject by citing the scriptural account in Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock, all the earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth."

Then as we continue to read the creation account we find this after they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil this in Genesis 3:22

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

So, a initial question would arise, given this account, is if we truly believe that God truly wanted him and his son to create man in their " Image and their likeness" and one of the likenesses of them was "knowing good and evil" was it intended for them to not be able to live up to Gods command and eat from this tree, as part of the creation process ?

With that, I will wait for response and look forward to engage in a thoughtful discussion on this topic, as there is much more to be presented for discussion, scripturally, for thought and feed back. I would ask that those who engage to believe in creation, have knowledge of scripture and cite them when applicable for points made. In addition, please use a pattern of sound words and logic and not go full retard. Thanks.

Yes he knew they would fail, humanity would turn against Him, and some would prove their love in the darkness. Love is only proven in darkness. He and our introduction into this darkness was to define our love for Him and His love for us. That was the plan all along. All of the darkness and wickedness will be cast away after it has fulfilled its purpose.

Indeed. As your short summary states " All of the darkness and wickedness will be cast away after it has fulfilled its purpose." is something the majority fail to see, that even "Satan" the adversary was created for a purpose and is a tool used by God in the ongoing creation process, bringing his creation to perfection.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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9/6/2016 4:09:34 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/6/2016 2:40:54 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:
At 9/5/2016 1:51:47 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 9/5/2016 1:33:59 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:
This post is to discuss from a biblical perspective if God designed and created Adam & Eve to fail his command not to eat of the tree of knowledge, knowing good from evil.

I will start this discussion with preliminary thought on this subject by citing the scriptural account in Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock, all the earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth."

Then as we continue to read the creation account we find this after they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil this in Genesis 3:22

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

So, a initial question would arise, given this account, is if we truly believe that God truly wanted him and his son to create man in their " Image and their likeness" and one of the likenesses of them was "knowing good and evil" was it intended for them to not be able to live up to Gods command and eat from this tree, as part of the creation process ?

With that, I will wait for response and look forward to engage in a thoughtful discussion on this topic, as there is much more to be presented for discussion, scripturally, for thought and feed back. I would ask that those who engage to believe in creation, have knowledge of scripture and cite them when applicable for points made. In addition, please use a pattern of sound words and logic and not go full retard. Thanks.

Yes he knew they would fail, humanity would turn against Him, and some would prove their love in the darkness. Love is only proven in darkness. He and our introduction into this darkness was to define our love for Him and His love for us. That was the plan all along. All of the darkness and wickedness will be cast away after it has fulfilled its purpose.

Indeed. As your short summary states " All of the darkness and wickedness will be cast away after it has fulfilled its purpose." is something the majority fail to see, that even "Satan" the adversary was created for a purpose and is a tool used by God in the ongoing creation process, bringing his creation to perfection.

+1
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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IRONHIDE
Posts: 326
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9/6/2016 9:23:09 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/6/2016 1:43:40 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/5/2016 1:33:59 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:
This post is to discuss from a biblical perspective if God designed and created Adam & Eve to fail his command not to eat of the tree of knowledge, knowing good from evil.

I will start this discussion with preliminary thought on this subject by citing the scriptural account in Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock, all the earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth."

Then as we continue to read the creation account we find this after they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil this in Genesis 3:22

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

So, a initial question would arise, given this account, is if we truly believe that God truly wanted him and his son to create man in their " Image and their likeness" and one of the likenesses of them was "knowing good and evil" was it intended for them to not be able to live up to Gods command and eat from this tree, as part of the creation process ?

With that, I will wait for response and look forward to engage in a thoughtful discussion on this topic, as there is much more to be presented for discussion, scripturally, for thought and feed back. I would ask that those who engage to believe in creation, have knowledge of scripture and cite them when applicable for points made. In addition, please use a pattern of sound words and logic and not go full retard. Thanks.

If God created man in His image, it makes no sense that He would be upset with Adam for becoming like Him. " "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "
One would expect He would encourage His creation to become like Him.
It is the evil part that God was afraid of that now also became a part of Adam and like God man too became capable of great evil. God's first reaction was to punish his creation. Then He tried to destroy His creation with a giant flood.

Evidence that proves God is not very bright and the fruit (Jesus) did not fall too far from the tree.

1. God left a talking serpent in the Garden with Adam and Eve who ruined God's creation agenda.
2. God cursed the talking serpent along with his creation.
3. He then tried to wipe out his creation with a giant flood save for Noah and family and all those who could fit on a boat.

Then He tried to save his creation with the same dumb approach he used to destroy it.

1. He told the prophets he was going to send His son Jesus who was going to be rejected and put to death by the Jews.

2. God sent Jesus to save the Jews knowing Jesus would be rejected and put to death.

3. Jesus was put to death according to God's will, the Jews were not save.

4. How did God's plan help the Jews? it made their situation worse and they were slaughtered by the Romans for trying to save their temple from being desecrated by the same Romans.

"When the Romans conquered the city of Jerusalem and entered it , their pagan soldiers entered the temple, (defiling it according to Jewish Law), tore down Jewish ornaments and temple accoutrements, and raised in stead the pagan symbols and Roman standards.
Some suggest the abomination was fulfilled when Roman standards and pagan symbols were placed in the temple."

It was the desecration of the temple by the Romans that led to the abomination of desolation and not the crucifixion of Jesus which happened 4 decades earlier.

So by trying to save his creation God was also inadvertently setting it up for destruction.

Jesus blamed both God and the Jews for his demise. Paradoxically he was sent to save the Jews.

John 23:34 Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.

Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").

With all due respect, It appears you have a significant lack of knowledge concerning scriptures as a whole. I also pick up you either do not believe there to be a God who created all things, or you believe there is a God, but he is dumber than the post you made.

If you believe there is a God and believe in creation, thinking he is just a dumb booger eater, I would gladly address your points scripturally, with logic, comprised of a pattern of sound words, highlighting the illogical statements you have made, calling God dumb.

If you simply just do not believe in God, the bible, or creation, then there is no need to address your post any further, as I respectfully asked those who engage on the topic to do so with a belief in the biblical creation account.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,003
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9/6/2016 10:06:39 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/6/2016 9:23:09 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:
At 9/6/2016 1:43:40 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/5/2016 1:33:59 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:
This post is to discuss from a biblical perspective if God designed and created Adam & Eve to fail his command not to eat of the tree of knowledge, knowing good from evil.

I will start this discussion with preliminary thought on this subject by citing the scriptural account in Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock, all the earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth."

Then as we continue to read the creation account we find this after they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil this in Genesis 3:22

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

So, a initial question would arise, given this account, is if we truly believe that God truly wanted him and his son to create man in their " Image and their likeness" and one of the likenesses of them was "knowing good and evil" was it intended for them to not be able to live up to Gods command and eat from this tree, as part of the creation process ?

With that, I will wait for response and look forward to engage in a thoughtful discussion on this topic, as there is much more to be presented for discussion, scripturally, for thought and feed back. I would ask that those who engage to believe in creation, have knowledge of scripture and cite them when applicable for points made. In addition, please use a pattern of sound words and logic and not go full retard. Thanks.

If God created man in His image, it makes no sense that He would be upset with Adam for becoming like Him. " "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "
One would expect He would encourage His creation to become like Him.
It is the evil part that God was afraid of that now also became a part of Adam and like God man too became capable of great evil. God's first reaction was to punish his creation. Then He tried to destroy His creation with a giant flood.

Evidence that proves God is not very bright and the fruit (Jesus) did not fall too far from the tree.

1. God left a talking serpent in the Garden with Adam and Eve who ruined God's creation agenda.
2. God cursed the talking serpent along with his creation.
3. He then tried to wipe out his creation with a giant flood save for Noah and family and all those who could fit on a boat.

Then He tried to save his creation with the same dumb approach he used to destroy it.

1. He told the prophets he was going to send His son Jesus who was going to be rejected and put to death by the Jews.

2. God sent Jesus to save the Jews knowing Jesus would be rejected and put to death.

3. Jesus was put to death according to God's will, the Jews were not save.

4. How did God's plan help the Jews? it made their situation worse and they were slaughtered by the Romans for trying to save their temple from being desecrated by the same Romans.

"When the Romans conquered the city of Jerusalem and entered it , their pagan soldiers entered the temple, (defiling it according to Jewish Law), tore down Jewish ornaments and temple accoutrements, and raised in stead the pagan symbols and Roman standards.
Some suggest the abomination was fulfilled when Roman standards and pagan symbols were placed in the temple."

It was the desecration of the temple by the Romans that led to the abomination of desolation and not the crucifixion of Jesus which happened 4 decades earlier.

So by trying to save his creation God was also inadvertently setting it up for destruction.

Jesus blamed both God and the Jews for his demise. Paradoxically he was sent to save the Jews.

John 23:34 Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.

Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").

With all due respect, It appears you have a significant lack of knowledge concerning scriptures as a whole. I also pick up you either do not believe there to be a God who created all things, or you believe there is a God, but he is dumber than the post you made.

If you believe there is a God and believe in creation, thinking he is just a dumb booger eater, I would gladly address your points scripturally, with logic, comprised of a pattern of sound words, highlighting the illogical statements you have made, calling God dumb.

If you simply just do not believe in God, the bible, or creation, then there is no need to address your post any further, as I respectfully asked those who engage on the topic to do so with a belief in the biblical creation account.

I have gone further than just belief. I have provided logical and rational explanations for God disdain for his own creation and little justification for his bumbling genocidal actions, starting with creation and ending with His desperate attempt to recall his incompetent and incoherent son Jesus to avoid further embarrassment.
IRONHIDE
Posts: 326
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9/7/2016 12:08:45 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/6/2016 10:06:39 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/6/2016 9:23:09 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:
At 9/6/2016 1:43:40 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/5/2016 1:33:59 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:
This post is to discuss from a biblical perspective if God designed and created Adam & Eve to fail his command not to eat of the tree of knowledge, knowing good from evil.

I will start this discussion with preliminary thought on this subject by citing the scriptural account in Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock, all the earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth."

Then as we continue to read the creation account we find this after they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil this in Genesis 3:22

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

So, a initial question would arise, given this account, is if we truly believe that God truly wanted him and his son to create man in their " Image and their likeness" and one of the likenesses of them was "knowing good and evil" was it intended for them to not be able to live up to Gods command and eat from this tree, as part of the creation process ?

With that, I will wait for response and look forward to engage in a thoughtful discussion on this topic, as there is much more to be presented for discussion, scripturally, for thought and feed back. I would ask that those who engage to believe in creation, have knowledge of scripture and cite them when applicable for points made. In addition, please use a pattern of sound words and logic and not go full retard. Thanks.

If God created man in His image, it makes no sense that He would be upset with Adam for becoming like Him. " "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

God did not "create" man in his image. He and his son are "creating" man in their image.

One would expect He would encourage His creation to become like Him.

Him and his son are encouraging man to become like them, in addition to deploying tools and tactics in shaping and molding us in their image. Like boot camp of sorts, he is tearing mans self will down over a period of time and rebuilding us all as a perfect unit.
It is the evil part that God was afraid of that now also became a part of Adam and like God man too became capable of great evil. God's first reaction was to punish his creation. Then He tried to destroy His creation with a giant flood.

God is not afraid of no one, or nothing. God does not "react" he acts skillfully and deliberately with precision to carry out his will.

Evidence that proves God is not very bright and the fruit (Jesus) did not fall too far from the tree.

Evidence proves he and his son is brighter and more full of wisdom than our limited brain that only uses 10% of its capability, with many even less than that.

1. God left a talking serpent in the Garden with Adam and Eve who ruined God's creation agenda.

God did not leave a talking serpent in the garden. He permitted Satan, using him as a tool, to enter the Garden and having Satan use a serpent as a medium to deceive Eve, then Eve having been deceived turned to Adam and solicited him. Adam then committed his act NOT being deceived according to scripture.

2. God cursed the talking serpent along with his creation.

Yes he did. With purpose and intent.

3. He then tried to wipe out his creation with a giant flood save for Noah and family and all those who could fit on a boat.

He didn't try. He did. Again, with precision and design. Not just who could happen to fit on the boat, but those he wanted on the boat and the animals in which he designated, having given Noah the specific building requirements to sustain those he wanted.

Then He tried to save his creation with the same dumb approach he used to destroy it.

This is just a dumb statement in its self.

1. He told the prophets he was going to send His son Jesus who was going to be rejected and put to death by the Jews.

Again, this was for purpose and he caused to happen to fulfill a purpose.

2. God sent Jesus to save the Jews knowing Jesus would be rejected and put to death.

God did not send Jesus to save the Jews or no one for that matter. Jesus did not come to convert no one. Yes. God and his Son knew he came to be rejected by the Jews and crucified.

3. Jesus was put to death according to God's will, the Jews were not save.

This is correct.

4. How did God's plan help the Jews? it made their situation worse and they were slaughtered by the Romans for trying to save their temple from being desecrated by the same Romans.

His plan was not to help the Jews at that time. It was his plan for them to be slaughtered and was prophesied. coming to fulfillment.

"When the Romans conquered the city of Jerusalem and entered it , their pagan soldiers entered the temple, (defiling it according to Jewish Law), tore down Jewish ornaments and temple accoutrements, and raised in stead the pagan symbols and Roman standards.

Some suggest the abomination was fulfilled when Roman standards and pagan symbols were placed in the temple."

The abomination of desolation is when Satan enters in the temple of the throne in mans hearts and minds of men, who are the temple of God ( Not a brick and mortar temple) declaring himself God.

It was the desecration of the temple by the Romans that led to the abomination of desolation and not the crucifixion of Jesus which happened 4 decades earlier.

This was addressed in above, conserving the abomination of desolation that is yet to come and is spiritual. This account was a carnal account and type of what's to come.

So by trying to save his creation God was also inadvertently setting it up for destruction.

He is not "trying" He is saving his creation thru a process that is playing out even now .

Jesus blamed both God and the Jews for his demise. Paradoxically he was sent to save the Jews.

That is an ignorant statement and the below scriptures cited does not demonstrate Jesus casting blame on the Jews, Nor his Father for his sacrifice he willfully underwent.

These are brief responses to your ludicrous points and I could take the time to solidify my points made, citing a litany of scripture, but realize you do not believe scripture to be an accurate source for validating points made. Because anyone who holds a view that God is a bumbling idiot, certainly would not consider the bible scriptures with validity.

John 23:34 Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.

Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").
dee-em
Posts: 6,443
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9/7/2016 12:37:11 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/5/2016 1:33:59 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:
This post is to discuss from a biblical perspective if God designed and created Adam & Eve to fail his command not to eat of the tree of knowledge, knowing good from evil.

I will start this discussion with preliminary thought on this subject by citing the scriptural account in Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock, all the earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth."

Then as we continue to read the creation account we find this after they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil this in Genesis 3:22

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

So, a initial question would arise, given this account, is if we truly believe that God truly wanted him and his son to create man in their " Image and their likeness" and one of the likenesses of them was "knowing good and evil" was it intended for them to not be able to live up to Gods command and eat from this tree, as part of the creation process ?

If you don't accept that God admonished them to not eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil then how do you explain:

Genesis 2
15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."


Was God lying?

Then later, after Adam and Eve disobey, they are punished for their disobedience. You seem to be suggesting that God secretly wanted them to eat the fruit. Then why the punishment? That makes no sense.
IRONHIDE
Posts: 326
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9/7/2016 1:17:11 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/7/2016 12:37:11 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/5/2016 1:33:59 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:
This post is to discuss from a biblical perspective if God designed and created Adam & Eve to fail his command not to eat of the tree of knowledge, knowing good from evil.

I will start this discussion with preliminary thought on this subject by citing the scriptural account in Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock, all the earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth."

Then as we continue to read the creation account we find this after they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil this in Genesis 3:22

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

So, a initial question would arise, given this account, is if we truly believe that God truly wanted him and his son to create man in their " Image and their likeness" and one of the likenesses of them was "knowing good and evil" was it intended for them to not be able to live up to Gods command and eat from this tree, as part of the creation process ?

If you don't accept that God admonished them to not eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil then how do you explain:

I accept that God admonished them not to eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge Of Good and Evil. It is plainly stated by God in the scripture you cited.

Genesis 2
15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."


Was God lying?

No. God was not lying, as when they did eat of the tree, the death process began.

Then later, after Adam and Eve disobey, they are punished for their disobedience. You seem to be suggesting that God secretly wanted them to eat the fruit. Then why the punishment? That makes no sense.

I don't suggest, rather scripture suggest God knew and intended for them to eat from the tree before he created them. Note that the scriptures state the "Lamb was chosen to be slain even BEFORE the world began."

1 Peter 1:20

God chose him as your ransom long before the world began, but he has now revealed him to you in these last days.

Revelations 13 speaking of the beast to make war with the saints starting with verse 7

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindred's, and tongues, and nations

8 All those who had become settled down and at home, living on the earth, will worship it, everyone whose name had not been written in the Book of Life belonging to the lamb that had been slaughtered since the foundation of the world.


It was Gods plan all along for them to fail his admonishing, as he already had chosen his son to be a ransom sacrifice, before he even created the world and man. In addition it is God behind every thing taking place putting it in the hearts of men to do Good and Bad to bring about his purpose.

For example: Pharaoh God said "I will harden Pharaohs heart against my people" in order not to let his people go, even though God had Moses go warn Pharaoh to let his people go. Had God himself not harden Pharaoh's heart, he would have let his people go. However, God had a purpose and a plan and hardened his heart to fulfill his purpose.
loveymore
Posts: 64
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9/7/2016 2:12:52 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
Harikrish, If logic comes from understanding, what is there to understand,other than how things were done? You think you are more than the whole environment, in which you play your predefined, set role? Even when deciding and thinking?

Can creation be more than it's author? Of course not, but If you think so, welcome to yet another evolutionary club, wouldn't you consider it fail? I just can't grasp your way of thinking.

God's image can be X, Knowing good and bad could be Y, while God X, Y, .. oo, but this can't even handle him. Whatever the case, human way of thinking falls short.
dee-em
Posts: 6,443
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9/7/2016 3:02:14 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/7/2016 1:17:11 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:
At 9/7/2016 12:37:11 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/5/2016 1:33:59 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:
This post is to discuss from a biblical perspective if God designed and created Adam & Eve to fail his command not to eat of the tree of knowledge, knowing good from evil.

I will start this discussion with preliminary thought on this subject by citing the scriptural account in Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock, all the earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth."

Then as we continue to read the creation account we find this after they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil this in Genesis 3:22

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

So, a initial question would arise, given this account, is if we truly believe that God truly wanted him and his son to create man in their " Image and their likeness" and one of the likenesses of them was "knowing good and evil" was it intended for them to not be able to live up to Gods command and eat from this tree, as part of the creation process ?

If you don't accept that God admonished them to not eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil then how do you explain:

I accept that God admonished them not to eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge Of Good and Evil. It is plainly stated by God in the scripture you cited.

Genesis 2
15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."


Was God lying?

No. God was not lying, as when they did eat of the tree, the death process began.

Then later, after Adam and Eve disobey, they are punished for their disobedience. You seem to be suggesting that God secretly wanted them to eat the fruit. Then why the punishment? That makes no sense.

I don't suggest, rather scripture suggest God knew and intended for them to eat from the tree before he created them.

Then how do you reconcile these contradictions?

Note that the scriptures state the "Lamb was chosen to be slain even BEFORE the world began." 1 Peter 1:20

I thought we were discussing the Genesis account and not later non-Jewish commentary. I fail to see the relevance anyway. Isn't this a reference to Jesus?

God chose him as your ransom long before the world began, but he has now revealed him to you in these last days.

Ransom for what? You are merely making assertions and they have no bearing on the Genesis account.

Revelations 13 speaking of the beast to make war with the saints starting with verse 7

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindred's, and tongues, and nations

8 All those who had become settled down and at home, living on the earth, will worship it, everyone whose name had not been written in the Book of Life belonging to the lamb that had been slaughtered since the foundation of the world.


Totally irrelevant to the Genesis account which is self-contained.

It was Gods plan all along for them to fail his admonishing, as he already had chosen his son to be a ransom sacrifice, before he even created the world and man.

You are happy with a creator being who set man up to fail and then punished him for the failure which he had planned from the beginning? That would make God a monstrous psychopath and anyone who condoned it a very sick puppy. What kind of father orchestrates the sacrifice of his own son? Do you condone human sacrifice? You guys want to make a virtue of abhorrent and reprehensible conduct which you wouldn't tolerate in your own family and community. It's almost beyond belief.

In addition it is God behind every thing taking place putting it in the hearts of men to do Good and Bad to bring about his purpose.

Assertions without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

For example: Pharaoh God said "I will harden Pharaohs heart against my people" in order not to let his people go, even though God had Moses go warn Pharaoh to let his people go. Had God himself not harden Pharaoh's heart, he would have let his people go. However, God had a purpose and a plan and hardened his heart to fulfill his purpose.

You do realize that Exodus is a myth, right? The Jews were never in Egypt. The account is fabrication from start to finish.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,003
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9/7/2016 4:05:54 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/7/2016 12:08:45 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:
At 9/6/2016 10:06:39 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/6/2016 9:23:09 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:
At 9/6/2016 1:43:40 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/5/2016 1:33:59 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:
This post is to discuss from a biblical perspective if God designed and created Adam & Eve to fail his command not to eat of the tree of knowledge, knowing good from evil.

I will start this discussion with preliminary thought on this subject by citing the scriptural account in Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock, all the earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth."

Then as we continue to read the creation account we find this after they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil this in Genesis 3:22

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "


If God created man in His image, it makes no sense that He would be upset with Adam for becoming like Him. " "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

God did not "create" man in his image. He and his son are "creating" man in their image.

Read your bible.
Genesis 1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

One would expect He would encourage His creation to become like Him.

Him and his son are encouraging man to become like them, in addition to deploying tools and tactics in shaping and molding us in their image. Like boot camp of sorts, he is tearing mans self will down over a period of time and rebuilding us all as a perfect unit.

That is not the case anymore. All you have to do is believe. Faith/grace not works.
Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

It is the evil part that God was afraid of that now also became a part of Adam and like God man too became capable of great evil. God's first reaction was to punish his creation. Then He tried to destroy His creation with a giant flood.

God is not afraid of no one, or nothing. God does not "react" he acts skillfully and deliberately with precision to carry out his will.

Nahum 1:2 The LORD is a jealous and avenging God; the LORD takes vengeance and is filled with wrath. The LORD takes vengeance on his foes and vents his wrath against his enemies.

Evidence that proves God is not very bright and the fruit (Jesus) did not fall too far from the tree.

Evidence proves he and his son is brighter and more full of wisdom than our limited brain that only uses 10% of its capability, with many even less than that.

Genesis 9:15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. Duh!

John 6:53 Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Duh!

Matthew 10: 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
36 and one"s foes will be members of one"s own household.

1. God left a talking serpent in the Garden with Adam and Eve who ruined God's creation agenda.

God did not leave a talking serpent in the garden. He permitted Satan, using him as a tool, to enter the Garden and having Satan use a serpent as a medium to deceive Eve, then Eve having been deceived turned to Adam and solicited him. Adam then committed his act NOT being deceived according to scripture.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

2. God cursed the talking serpent along with his creation.

Yes he did. With purpose and intent.

And still cursed His creation in the end.

3. He then tried to wipe out his creation with a giant flood save for Noah and family and all those who could fit on a boat.

He didn't try. He did. Again, with precision and design. Not just who could happen to fit on the boat, but those he wanted on the boat and the animals in which he designated, having given Noah the specific building requirements to sustain those he wanted.

Because God was displeased with the Jews, he destroyed the rest of the world too. What a moron!

Then He tried to save his creation with the same dumb approach he used to destroy it.

This is just a dumb statement in its self.

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
That is destroying more people than was destroyed by the giant flood. God tried to save his creation with the same dumb approach he used to destroy it using His conditional approach.

1. He told the prophets he was going to send His son Jesus who was going to be rejected and put to death by the Jews.

Again, this was for purpose and he caused to happen to fulfill a purpose.

John 12:40 "The Lord has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts--so that their eyes cannot see, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and have me heal them." Duh! Another moronic trap.

2. God sent Jesus to save the Jews knowing Jesus would be rejected and put to death.

God did not send Jesus to save the Jews or no one for that matter. Jesus did not come to convert no one. Yes. God and his Son knew he came to be rejected by the Jews and crucified.

Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
You must be scripturally challenged. Duh!

3. Jesus was put to death according to God's will, the Jews were not save.

This is correct.

4. How did God's plan help the Jews? it made their situation worse and they were slaughtered by the Romans for trying to save their temple from being desecrated by the same Romans.

His plan was not to help the Jews at that time. It was his plan for them to be slaughtered and was prophesied. coming to fulfillment.

Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
But the real plan was already prophesied. So Jesus lied!!

"When the Romans conquered the city of Jerusalem and entered it , their pagan soldiers entered the temple, (defiling it according to Jewish Law), tore down Jewish ornaments and temple accoutrements, and raised in stead the pagan symbols and Roman standards.

The abomination of desolation is when Satan enters in the temple of the throne in mans hearts and minds of men, who are the temple of God ( Not a brick and mortar temple) declaring himself God.

The Romans destroyed the temple. Nothing spiritual there.

It was the desecration of the temple by the Romans that led to the abomination of desolation and not the crucifixion of Jesus which happened 4 decades earlier.

This was addressed in above, conserving the abomination of desolation that is yet to come and is spiritual. This account was a carnal account and type of what's to come.
The abomination of desolation was a physical event. Jesus even likened it to Daniel .

You are scripturally challenged!!
loveymore
Posts: 64
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9/7/2016 9:12:56 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/7/2016 3:02:14 AM, dee-em wrote:
Assertions without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

You do realize that Exodus is a myth, right? The Jews were never in Egypt. The account is fabrication from start to finish.

Can you prove it? It sounds like golden rule of yours.
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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9/7/2016 10:19:45 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/7/2016 9:12:56 AM, loveymore wrote:
At 9/7/2016 3:02:14 AM, dee-em wrote:
Assertions without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

You do realize that Exodus is a myth, right? The Jews were never in Egypt. The account is fabrication from start to finish.

Can you prove it? It sounds like golden rule of yours.
Archaeologists have already, read some books eg The Bible Unearthed and many others.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
loveymore
Posts: 64
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9/7/2016 10:52:32 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/7/2016 10:19:45 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/7/2016 9:12:56 AM, loveymore wrote:
At 9/7/2016 3:02:14 AM, dee-em wrote:
Assertions without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

You do realize that Exodus is a myth, right? The Jews were never in Egypt. The account is fabrication from start to finish.

Can you prove it? It sounds like golden rule of yours.
Archaeologists have already, read some books eg The Bible Unearthed and many others.

I'll rather stick to God, or can you foresee, what's about to be unearthed?
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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9/7/2016 11:13:39 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/7/2016 10:52:32 AM, loveymore wrote:
At 9/7/2016 10:19:45 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/7/2016 9:12:56 AM, loveymore wrote:
At 9/7/2016 3:02:14 AM, dee-em wrote:
Assertions without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

You do realize that Exodus is a myth, right? The Jews were never in Egypt. The account is fabrication from start to finish.

Can you prove it? It sounds like golden rule of yours.
Archaeologists have already, read some books eg The Bible Unearthed and many others.

I'll rather stick to God, or can you foresee, what's about to be unearthed?
What has god told you and how do you know it was your god?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
loveymore
Posts: 64
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9/7/2016 11:39:32 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/7/2016 11:13:39 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/7/2016 10:52:32 AM, loveymore wrote:
At 9/7/2016 10:19:45 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/7/2016 9:12:56 AM, loveymore wrote:
At 9/7/2016 3:02:14 AM, dee-em wrote:
Assertions without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

You do realize that Exodus is a myth, right? The Jews were never in Egypt. The account is fabrication from start to finish.

Can you prove it? It sounds like golden rule of yours.
Archaeologists have already, read some books eg The Bible Unearthed and many others.

I'll rather stick to God, or can you foresee, what's about to be unearthed?
What has god told you and how do you know it was your god?

I assume you meant God, who is all in all. Would Sovereign God lie us, when we pray and search him, or make something to our disfavor? I don't think he is low-minded.

And this is also why every good and perfect gift is from above.
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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9/7/2016 11:50:44 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/7/2016 11:39:32 AM, loveymore wrote:
At 9/7/2016 11:13:39 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/7/2016 10:52:32 AM, loveymore wrote:
At 9/7/2016 10:19:45 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/7/2016 9:12:56 AM, loveymore wrote:
At 9/7/2016 3:02:14 AM, dee-em wrote:
Assertions without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

You do realize that Exodus is a myth, right? The Jews were never in Egypt. The account is fabrication from start to finish.

Can you prove it? It sounds like golden rule of yours.
Archaeologists have already, read some books eg The Bible Unearthed and many others.

I'll rather stick to God, or can you foresee, what's about to be unearthed?
What has god told you and how do you know it was your god?

I assume you meant God, who is all in all. Would Sovereign God lie us, when we pray and search him, or make something to our disfavor? I don't think he is low-minded.

And this is also why every good and perfect gift is from above.
Try to answer the question you are asked, I don't need your regurgitated indoctrination.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
loveymore
Posts: 64
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9/7/2016 3:57:02 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/7/2016 11:50:44 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/7/2016 11:39:32 AM, loveymore wrote:
At 9/7/2016 11:13:39 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/7/2016 10:52:32 AM, loveymore wrote:
At 9/7/2016 10:19:45 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/7/2016 9:12:56 AM, loveymore wrote:
At 9/7/2016 3:02:14 AM, dee-em wrote:
Assertions without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

You do realize that Exodus is a myth, right? The Jews were never in Egypt. The account is fabrication from start to finish.

Can you prove it? It sounds like golden rule of yours.
Archaeologists have already, read some books eg The Bible Unearthed and many others.

I'll rather stick to God, or can you foresee, what's about to be unearthed?
What has god told you and how do you know it was your god?

I assume you meant God, who is all in all. Would Sovereign God lie us, when we pray and search him, or make something to our disfavor? I don't think he is low-minded.

And this is also why every good and perfect gift is from above.
Try to answer the question you are asked, I don't need your regurgitated indoctrination.

Alright, here is another try:

He says that our scholarly or academic understanding of real history of Egypt is beyond limit to draw serious conclusions from. Why do I trust in this? Evidence shows that's factual truth. Too many theories, hypothesis, and consensus is shifting as the wind blows. Why is this important to you?

"But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise."

"For those blessed by Him will inherit the land,
But those cursed by Him will be cut off."
Casten
Posts: 391
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9/7/2016 4:15:01 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
It was totally planned. It was like one of those psych experiments where they put a group of people in an empty room with a big red button, and say, "Don't push the button."
IRONHIDE
Posts: 326
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9/7/2016 8:01:38 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/6/2016 1:43:40 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/5/2016 1:33:59 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:
If God created man in His image, it makes no sense that He would be upset with Adam for becoming like Him. " "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

God did not "create" man in his image. He and his son are "creating" man in their image.

Read your bible.

I read the bible daily. I have read it front to back, inside out, back to front, In the English traslastion, the Aramaic, Hebrew & Greek.

Genesis 1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

The Hebrew word in DR. Strong's Concordance is H1254 (Bara') and means in biblical outline usage " I.to create, shape, form

A.(Qal) to shape, fashion, create (always with God as subject)

i.of heaven and earth
ii.of individual man
iii.of new conditions and circumstances
iv.of transformations

"ALWAYS WITH GOD AS SUBJECT" No question that the biblical application is that man is always a subject with God being created and is in the creation process. The Creating process began and is ongoing. If you think man has reached perfection, just turn on the news and look at the world around you. Like I mentioned earlier, using as an example, Boot Camp. God is shaping and molding humanity by first breaking us, tearing us down completely, till humanity is sick and tired of trying to do it our own way, in order for him to create a fine tuned unit.

https://www.blueletterbible.org...

I will outline with scripture, addressing your other weak points made. When time allows later today.

Him and his son are encouraging man to become like them, in addition to deploying tools and tactics in shaping and molding us in their image. Like boot camp of sorts, he is tearing mans self will down over a period of time and rebuilding us all as a perfect unit.

That is not the case anymore. All you have to do is believe. Faith/grace not works.
Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

It is the evil part that God was afraid of that now also became a part of Adam and like God man too became capable of great evil. God's first reaction was to punish his creation. Then He tried to destroy His creation with a giant flood.

God is not afraid of no one, or nothing. God does not "react" he acts skillfully and deliberately with precision to carry out his will.

Nahum 1:2 The LORD is a jealous and avenging God; the LORD takes vengeance and is filled with wrath. The LORD takes vengeance on his foes and vents his wrath against his enemies.

Evidence that proves God is not very bright and the fruit (Jesus) did not fall too far from the tree.

Evidence proves he and his son is brighter and more full of wisdom than our limited brain that only uses 10% of its capability, with many even less than that.

Genesis 9:15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. Duh!

John 6:53 Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Duh!

Matthew 10: 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
36 and one"s foes will be members of one"s own household.

1. God left a talking serpent in the Garden with Adam and Eve who ruined God's creation agenda.

God did not leave a talking serpent in the garden. He permitted Satan, using him as a tool, to enter the Garden and having Satan use a serpent as a medium to deceive Eve, then Eve having been deceived turned to Adam and solicited him. Adam then committed his act NOT being deceived according to scripture.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

2. God cursed the talking serpent along with his creation.

Yes he did. With purpose and intent.

And still cursed His creation in the end.

3. He then tried to wipe out his creation with a giant flood save for Noah and family and all those who could fit on a boat.

He didn't try. He did. Again, with precision and design. Not just who could happen to fit on the boat, but those he wanted on the boat and the animals in which he designated, having given Noah the specific building requirements to sustain those he wanted.

Because God was displeased with the Jews, he destroyed the rest of the world too. What a moron!

Then He tried to save his creation with the same dumb approach he used to destroy it.

This is just a dumb statement in its self.

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
That is destroying more people than was destroyed by the giant flood. God tried to save his creation with the same dumb approach he used to destroy it using His conditional approach.

1. He told the prophets he was going to send His son Jesus who was going to be rejected and put to death by the Jews.

Again, this was for purpose and he caused to happen to fulfill a purpose.

John 12:40 "The Lord has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts--so that their eyes cannot see, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and have me heal them." Duh! Another moronic trap.

2. God sent Jesus to save the Jews knowing Jesus would be rejected and put to death.

God did not send Jesus to save the Jews or no one for that matter. Jesus did not come to convert no one. Yes. God and his Son knew he came to be rejected by the Jews and crucified.

Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
You must be scripturally challenged. Duh!

3. Jesus was put to death according to God's will, the Jews were not save.

This is correct.

4. How did God's plan help the Jews? it made their situation worse and they were slaughtered by the Romans for trying to save their temple from being desecrated by the same Romans.

His plan was not to help the Jews at that time. It was his plan for them to be slaughtered and was prophesied. coming to fulfillment.

Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
But the real plan was already prophesied. So Jesus lied!!

"When the Romans conquered the city of Jerusalem and entered it , their pagan soldiers entered the temple, (defiling it according to Jewish Law), tore down Jewish ornaments and temple accoutrements, and raised in stead the pagan symbols and Roman standards.

The abomination of desolation is when Satan enters in the temple of the throne in mans hearts and minds of men, who are the temple of God ( Not a brick and mortar temple) declaring himself God.

The Romans destroyed the temple. Nothing spiritual there.

It was the desecration of the temple by the Romans that led to the abomination of desolation and not the crucifixion of Jesus which happened 4 decades earlier.

This was addressed in above, conserving the abomination of desolation that is yet to come and is spiritual. This account was a carnal account and type of wh