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Does anyone know why RuvDabra has closed his

Fly
Posts: 2,045
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9/8/2016 1:14:58 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 6:19:09 AM, dee-em wrote:
account?

The lack of intellectual stimulation and challenge was probably too much for him to bear...
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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9/8/2016 1:24:44 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 6:19:09 AM, dee-em wrote:
account?

If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say he had more important things to do. I will also miss his eloquence and intelligence.
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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9/8/2016 1:27:47 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 1:14:58 PM, Fly wrote:
At 9/8/2016 6:19:09 AM, dee-em wrote:
account?

The lack of intellectual stimulation and challenge was probably too much for him to bear...

Yeah. I suspect it was frustration with the trolls and those just repeating the same tired old nonsense. People who don't like the message tend to shoot the messenger. I think in the end the theists here stopped trying to argue against him (a difficult job with someone as knowledgeable as Ruv) and simply ignored him. That has to be disheartening.

He tried to set the tone with courtesy but it didn't have much of an impact. I remember other forums where there was much better etiquette and quality of debate on both sides. Even Facebook groups in the religion section was pretty good until FB stuffed it up and I abandoned my account.
dee-em
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9/8/2016 1:29:54 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 1:24:44 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 9/8/2016 6:19:09 AM, dee-em wrote:
account?

If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say he had more important things to do. I will also miss his eloquence and intelligence.

Me too. I thought he might have said something before he left and I missed it. Sounds like he just slipped off quietly. That fits his style.
bulproof
Posts: 25,250
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9/8/2016 1:30:52 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 6:19:09 AM, dee-em wrote:
account?
I believe that he and his wife were about to embark on a bike ride for charity that would take a couple of weeks and his participation in this forum would have been a distraction.
Only my opinion of course.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
dee-em
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9/8/2016 1:34:15 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 1:30:52 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/8/2016 6:19:09 AM, dee-em wrote:
account?
I believe that he and his wife were about to embark on a bike ride for charity that would take a couple of weeks and his participation in this forum would have been a distraction.
Only my opinion of course.

Okay, but why shut down his account?
Maybe to avoid temptation?
Maybe his wife put her foot down?
I guess we'll find out in a couple of weeks. :-)
Chaosism
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9/8/2016 1:34:26 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 1:30:52 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/8/2016 6:19:09 AM, dee-em wrote:
account?
I believe that he and his wife were about to embark on a bike ride for charity that would take a couple of weeks and his participation in this forum would have been a distraction.
Only my opinion of course.

I would definitely lean towards that over an outright departure from the forums. From some private exchanges we had, I don't think there was any significant level of frustration to cause him to retire.
dhardage
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9/8/2016 1:52:21 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 1:34:26 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 9/8/2016 1:30:52 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/8/2016 6:19:09 AM, dee-em wrote:
account?
I believe that he and his wife were about to embark on a bike ride for charity that would take a couple of weeks and his participation in this forum would have been a distraction.
Only my opinion of course.

I would definitely lean towards that over an outright departure from the forums. From some private exchanges we had, I don't think there was any significant level of frustration to cause him to retire.

Ruv truly seemed to enjoy a good debate and discussion. He is quite capable of dealing with those who would derail it or use any kind of smokescreen to disguise the real issue. He was always polite but would never back down and he called people out when they were being dishonest. No, I think his life was just more important than discussing things with strangers on a screen.
bulproof
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9/8/2016 2:10:37 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
I, for one, hope to see him back. He was perhaps the most erudite of our contributors.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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9/8/2016 2:29:37 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
This post of RuvDraba might offer a hint why he called timeout from DDO. It was becoming harder for Ruv to remain objective. Some might call it idolatry and others just harmless idolizing of Harikrish's mind over matter. RuvDraba was a gentleman and a scholar. He will be missed.

Here is the link.
http://www.debate.org...
At 8/29/2016 7:02:16 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/29/2016 1:05:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 8/28/2016 8:32:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
Case Dismissed, Ben, with prejudice. Your own dishonesty is your own most damning evidence.
Do we see some similarities in our positions, RuvDraba?

I don't know, Hari. For me, the most interesting aspect of your posts isn't your theology, but the mind that writes the posts. I confess that when I read your posts, I spend more time thinking about you than I do your arguments.

It was my post #28 that I used to compare our positions to which Ruv was responding to.

At 8/29/2016 1:05:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 8/28/2016 8:32:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/28/2016 7:35:09 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/27/2016 7:09:38 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/27/2016 4:48:18 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/27/2016 8:49:33 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
Please nominate the criteria by which it could be independently established that:
1) Any wonder shown is actually a metaphysical phenomenon, meaning: it cannot be reproduced by natural engineering, including engineering that you have not yet observed;
2) Any being capable of awing you with wonders is nevertheless incapable of lying to you undetectably; and with that in mind, how it could be independently verified that:
3) This particular being created our universe in entirety;
4) It did so intentionally and alone;
5) It was not itself created by an even greater being, and either deluded or lying to you about it; and finally that
6) It is not only worthy of your own lifelong personal slavish submission and obedience, but also entraining your children and all their descendants to that purpose also.
Now, after all that testing (however you do it), suppose you met a second disembodied voice able to offer precisely the same demonstrations, yet claiming that the first was lying and should not be heeded. How could it be independently determined which, if either, was telling the truth?

This is sidestepping the issue.

"An intelligent designer of the universe exists" is a meaningful concept that can either be true or false.

Agree or disagree?

Ben, are you now a deist?

If not, then it is dishonest to call a putative designer or creator of this universe a theistic god unless you can demonstrate the validity of revelation and the moral imperative to worship it.

Please note that deism has no theology. Your contention isn't that deism is valid, but that theological non-cognitivism is nonsense.

So my questions are not only relevant, they are key to you demonstrating the validity of theology. Therefore, please answer them.

"Theological noncognitivism is the argument that religious language " specifically, words such as 'God' " are not cognitively meaningful."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

The idea of a cat is cognitively meaningful because we can agree to whatever confidence we like, what is and is not a cat, a cat's miaow, a cat's whiskers, a cat's paw-print.

Yet even though it's a fabulous animal, a unicorn is also cognitively meaningful because we can agree on what a unicorn looks like, how it may and may not act, how to tell it apart from other animals, and where, if it existed, we might find it. In fact, it's because we can ground our cognition in shared observation that we know there aren't any.

But you are making your hasty and dishonest evasion of my questions above precisely because even if I grant you a created universe and every improbable wonder you could want, you still cannot tell me how to discern whether they are truly miracles, and are truly God's. In other words, you know that you and the authors of scriptural revelations haven't a hope of recognising that which you and all those authors claim to be sure exists, and cannot bring yourself to admit it.

Consequently, it's not just that your conviction is misplaced, the entire contention is useless for ever producing truth, accuracy, independent confidence, or knowledge.

Ergo, no statement about the objectivity of God can be a truth-statement. If our purpose is to progress knowledge and accuracy, theological statements about the god of Abraham are not and never shall be fit for purpose. Setting aside the fact that Christian scholars consider their own scriptures largely inauthentic (therefore making claims of revelation, miracle and canon fraudulent), the whole epistemological foundation of revelatory theology is irrecoverably vacuous, no matter how many revelations and miracles we grant it.

Being agnostic on a vacuous proposition propagated by the dishonest and deluded is a pointless waste of thought. We don't claim to have no knowledge on that which proponents themselves can never know: it's sufficient to tell them they're talking twaddle and to stop wasting your time.

And you yourself are having troubles with your own cognition, Ben, because when trying to talk about evidence and knowledge of God, you cannot stay theist and own the evidentiary burden of your theology: you have to pretend you're Deist, pretend you have no theology to ever acquit, and resort to appeals to ignorance about the universe -- as though a created universe would get you any closer to verifying a theology you can never verify with anything anyway.

Case Dismissed, Ben, with prejudice. Your own dishonesty is your own most damning evidence.

Do we see some similarities in our positions, RuvDraba?

I don't think anyone has a problem with the definition of God or the various metaphysical attributes He is given such as omnipresent, omnipotent, creator,master of the universe because the meaning these definitions convey are understood. They are cognitively impressed on our imagination.

How they are received can be measured by the individuals personal experience and development. For example describing the concept of the mega rich to a poor average person can only tease the persons imagination of extreme wealth to a limited degree, he cannot possible conceptualizer the true magnitude of wealth as in mega rich because he has nothing to associate it with having been deprived all his life.

Similarly, religion attempts to convey the other worldness and transcendental nature of spiritual experience and the larger consciousness beyond the physical and material world. They may not be evidenced by science but they are cognitively real to the person experiencing it.

Neuroscientists have found the brain can be induced to produce these metaphysical experiences that are the subject of non-cognitivism by stimulation certain parts of the brain. The same areas that are the seat of creative thinking in the brain. So non-cognitivism is really a diminishing of cognitive function and not just a rhetorical proposition. We are certainly not all created equal in our cognitive ability of the sublime.

Here is the link.
http://www.debate.org...
bulproof
Posts: 25,250
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9/8/2016 2:35:21 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 2:29:37 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Umm Hari, take your hands off them.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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9/8/2016 2:50:38 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 2:35:21 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/8/2016 2:29:37 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Umm Hari, take your hands off them.

" In the New Testament the laying on of hands was associated with the receiving of the Holy Spirit (See Acts 8:14-19). Initially the Apostles laid hands on new believers as well as believers. (See Acts 6:5-6)."

I may not fill them with the Holy Spirit. But being the most spiritual member on DDO, they will be filled with something holy.
PureX
Posts: 1,528
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9/8/2016 4:17:55 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 6:19:09 AM, dee-em wrote:
Does anyone know why RuvDabra has closed his account?

He finally realized that empiricism was not the only method available to we humans for accessing reality an truth.

The shame was too much for him.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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9/8/2016 4:44:26 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 4:34:37 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/8/2016 6:19:09 AM, dee-em wrote:
account?

one of their accounts you mean....

And, the other accounts are who, exactly?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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9/8/2016 4:44:51 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 4:34:37 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/8/2016 6:19:09 AM, dee-em wrote:
account?

one of their accounts you mean....

Which other accounts does he have?
graceofgod
Posts: 5,095
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9/8/2016 4:59:35 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 4:44:26 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/8/2016 4:34:37 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/8/2016 6:19:09 AM, dee-em wrote:
account?

one of their accounts you mean....

And, the other accounts are who, exactly?

i would have thought you would know!!
graceofgod
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9/8/2016 5:00:22 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 4:44:51 PM, desmac wrote:
At 9/8/2016 4:34:37 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/8/2016 6:19:09 AM, dee-em wrote:
account?

one of their accounts you mean....

Which other accounts does he have?

more than one I would think..
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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9/8/2016 5:03:43 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 5:00:22 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/8/2016 4:44:51 PM, desmac wrote:
At 9/8/2016 4:34:37 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/8/2016 6:19:09 AM, dee-em wrote:
account?

one of their accounts you mean....

Which other accounts does he have?

more than one I would think..

Which ones?
graceofgod
Posts: 5,095
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9/8/2016 5:07:08 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 5:03:43 PM, desmac wrote:
At 9/8/2016 5:00:22 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/8/2016 4:44:51 PM, desmac wrote:
At 9/8/2016 4:34:37 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/8/2016 6:19:09 AM, dee-em wrote:
account?

one of their accounts you mean....

Which other accounts does he have?

more than one I would think..

Which ones?

dunno... and don't care...
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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9/8/2016 5:10:47 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 4:59:35 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/8/2016 4:44:26 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/8/2016 4:34:37 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/8/2016 6:19:09 AM, dee-em wrote:
account?

one of their accounts you mean....

And, the other accounts are who, exactly?

i would have thought you would know!!

So, just like all your other claims, this one too is void of any substance. As suspected.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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9/8/2016 5:15:49 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
We get a respite of hot air and cloying arrogance till his needy ego forces him back here seeking flattery.

Hope he takes the full 3 weeks.
bulproof
Posts: 25,250
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9/8/2016 5:20:30 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 5:15:49 PM, ethang5 wrote:
We get a respite of hot air and cloying arrogance till his needy ego forces him back here seeking flattery.

Hope he takes the full 3 weeks.

It's nice to see the unworthy pay their respects.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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9/8/2016 5:26:12 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 5:15:49 PM, ethang5 wrote:
We get a respite of hot air and cloying arrogance till his needy ego forces him back here seeking flattery.

Yes, he did kick your sorry intellectual a$$ a lot, so it's little wonder you come round to toss insults at him when he's not here to kick your sorry a$$. Very childish behavior.

Hope he takes the full 3 weeks.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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9/8/2016 7:13:01 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 6:19:09 AM, dee-em wrote:
account?

Sad news to me. He is one person i truly enjoyed reading his posts. His way of looking at things seemed always to be similar, with added eloquence however. Plus, he really helps me understand my spiritual views better through discussion. I hope other atheists can be as open minded as he came across while he is absent. I am sure he will come back, hopefully. Until then i hope he is having a great time doing whatever it is he is doing.
janesix
Posts: 3,466
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9/8/2016 7:17:56 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 7:13:01 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 9/8/2016 6:19:09 AM, dee-em wrote:
account?

Sad news to me. He is one person i truly enjoyed reading his posts. His way of looking at things seemed always to be similar, with added eloquence however. Plus, he really helps me understand my spiritual views better through discussion. I hope other atheists can be as open minded as he came across while he is absent. I am sure he will come back, hopefully. Until then i hope he is having a great time doing whatever it is he is doing.

I hope he comes back too. Even though we agreed on nothing.

I will miss him.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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9/8/2016 7:27:09 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/8/2016 7:17:56 PM, janesix wrote:
At 9/8/2016 7:13:01 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 9/8/2016 6:19:09 AM, dee-em wrote:
account?

Sad news to me. He is one person i truly enjoyed reading his posts. His way of looking at things seemed always to be similar, with added eloquence however. Plus, he really helps me understand my spiritual views better through discussion. I hope other atheists can be as open minded as he came across while he is absent. I am sure he will come back, hopefully. Until then i hope he is having a great time doing whatever it is he is doing.

I hope he comes back too. Even though we agreed on nothing.

Really, nothing? I'm sure you have some agreements. His definition of atheist for one is very interesting. Looking at it believing in organised religion morally and ethically wrong. I wont even try to explain it, for i will fail ;p but i like the way he looks at it. I agree that there is no authority (spiritual or not) that i morally or ethically should bow to and worship... i am in agreement there with his views.

I will miss him.

Yeah, my reading may get a little less interesting for a bit. I think he closed his account so people don't respond to his posts and him miss it while doing some activity, so i'm pretty sure he will resurface.