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Christianity is Polytheistic.

Genius_Intellect
Posts: 339
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9/9/2016 8:54:38 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
It has five major gods:

1. Yahweh, the sky father and divine law.
2. Jesus, the savior and teacher.
3. Holy Spirit, the animating force.
4. Virgin Mary, the divine feminine.
5. Satan, the tempter/trickster.

Every saint, angel, and demon would then constitute a minor deity.

Whether you worship all of them or not is irrelevant. Your acknowledgment of their existence and power is enough to deify them, at least to the standards that any pagan religion would apply.

It also makes no difference that three of your gods are combined into one (the Trinity). By referring to them separately, you make them separate beings.

And finally, it doesn't matter what the Bible says on the matter, since the Bible is only a tiny and insignificant fraction of your mythology. Most of your ideas are derived from the Greek and Roman religions, or else completely fabricated by Medieval writers.

Let's see anybody dispute this via rational argument.
IamamI
Posts: 56
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9/9/2016 9:02:54 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/9/2016 8:54:38 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
It has five major gods:

1. Yahweh, the sky father and divine law.
2. Jesus, the savior and teacher.
3. Holy Spirit, the animating force.
4. Virgin Mary, the divine feminine.
5. Satan, the tempter/trickster.

Every saint, angel, and demon would then constitute a minor deity.

Whether you worship all of them or not is irrelevant. Your acknowledgment of their existence and power is enough to deify them, at least to the standards that any pagan religion would apply.

It also makes no difference that three of your gods are combined into one (the Trinity). By referring to them separately, you make them separate beings.

And finally, it doesn't matter what the Bible says on the matter, since the Bible is only a tiny and insignificant fraction of your mythology. Most of your ideas are derived from the Greek and Roman religions, or else completely fabricated by Medieval writers.

Let's see anybody dispute this via rational argument. : :

Great argument against those heathens who practice pagan worship of their false gods and deities.
Aodagain
Posts: 22
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9/9/2016 9:27:00 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/9/2016 8:54:38 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
It has five major gods:

1. Yahweh, the sky father and divine law.
2. Jesus, the savior and teacher.
3. Holy Spirit, the animating force.
4. Virgin Mary, the divine feminine.
5. Satan, the tempter/trickster.

You're right. In fact. some religions of the hillbilly variety, in which I include SDAdventism, Jehovah's Witnesses and Pentecostalists, actually state openly that Christ was always there, thus making it dogma that there are at least two gods.
Artaxerxes
Posts: 181
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9/10/2016 1:00:08 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/9/2016 8:54:38 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
It has five major gods:
Please define what you mean by "god." There are many "gods," as the Scriptures plainly tell us this:
"For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many 'gods' and many 'lords,' there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him." (1 Corinthians 8:5, 6)

So do you mean the one true God (John 17:3)? Or are you speaking of minor, or lesser, "gods"?

1. Yahweh, the sky father and divine law.
Yahweh, or Jehovah, is the only true God. The Bible very clearly teaches this. See the references I made above.

2. Jesus, the savior and teacher.
Jesus is "a god," or "diety." I personally prefer Edgar Goodspeed's translation of John 1:1, which reads:
"In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine."

The Word, of course, being Christ. Jesus should not be confused the one true God described in John 17:3, however.

3. Holy Spirit, the animating force.
You got it right. The holy spirit is not a person, but a force. It is impersonal. It is simply God's active force. If you wish to discuss whether or not the holy spirit is a person then we can. However, you already labeled it as a force.

4. Virgin Mary, the divine feminine.
Mary is not a god. She is not divine.

5. Satan, the tempter/trickster.
Satan is indeed a god. Read 2 Corinthians 4:3, 4:
"If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through."

And finally, it doesn't matter what the Bible says on the matter, since the Bible is only a tiny and insignificant fraction of your mythology. Most of your ideas are derived from the Greek and Roman religions, or else completely fabricated by Medieval writers.
*yawn* This statement has been addressed so many times that it genuinely gets boring. I recommend the following book:
https://www.amazon.com...

Let's see anybody dispute this via rational argument.
You have not presented anything new. Your statements about there being many "gods" is verified by the Bible. So there is no need for any Christian to dispute your claims.
Genius_Intellect
Posts: 339
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9/10/2016 1:43:36 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/10/2016 1:00:08 AM, Artaxerxes wrote:
At 9/9/2016 8:54:38 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
It has five major gods:
Please define what you mean by "god." There are many "gods," as the Scriptures plainly tell us this:

If people worship it, then it's a god, for all intents and purposes.

"For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many 'gods' and many 'lords,' there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him." (1 Corinthians 8:5, 6)

All that says is that God is the originator and sum of all gods. This concept predates Christianity by at least one millennium.

So do you mean the one true God (John 17:3)? Or are you speaking of minor, or lesser, "gods"?

1. Yahweh, the sky father and divine law.
Yahweh, or Jehovah, is the only true God. The Bible very clearly teaches this. See the references I made above.

2. Jesus, the savior and teacher.
Jesus is "a god," or "diety." I personally prefer Edgar Goodspeed's translation of John 1:1, which reads:
"In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine."

The Word, of course, being Christ. Jesus should not be confused the one true God described in John 17:3, however.

3. Holy Spirit, the animating force.
You got it right. The holy spirit is not a person, but a force. It is impersonal. It is simply God's active force. If you wish to discuss whether or not the holy spirit is a person then we can. However, you already labeled it as a force.

Whether it acts as a person or not is completely irrelevant. Maat was impersonal, yet the Egyptians still deified her.

4. Virgin Mary, the divine feminine.
Mary is not a god. She is not divine.

Catholics revere her as if she was a deity, which makes her one for all intents and purposes. I defined a deity as a being that is worshiped, so there is no need to split hairs.

5. Satan, the tempter/trickster.
Satan is indeed a god. Read 2 Corinthians 4:3, 4:
"If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through."

And finally, it doesn't matter what the Bible says on the matter, since the Bible is only a tiny and insignificant fraction of your mythology. Most of your ideas are derived from the Greek and Roman religions, or else completely fabricated by Medieval writers.
*yawn* This statement has been addressed so many times that it genuinely gets boring. I recommend the following book:
https://www.amazon.com...

I'm not buying some random book. You can summarize the relevant passages if you want me to respond to them.

Let's see anybody dispute this via rational argument.
You have not presented anything new. Your statements about there being many "gods"

I don't mean gods with the quote marks. I mean you actually worship multiple gods, even if you try to link them together as one hive mind.

is verified by the Bible. So there is no need for any Christian to dispute your claims.
Artaxerxes
Posts: 181
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9/10/2016 1:56:27 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/10/2016 1:43:36 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:

Please define what you mean by "god." There are many "gods," as the Scriptures plainly tell us this:

If people worship it, then it's a god, for all intents and purposes.
Okay, then what do you mean by "worship"?

"For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many 'gods' and many 'lords,' there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him." (1 Corinthians 8:5, 6)

All that says is that God is the originator and sum of all gods. This concept predates Christianity by at least one millennium.
Yes, there is one true God, namely, Jehovah. All of the other "gods" are creations of Jehovah. I am glad we are on the same page.

3. Holy Spirit, the animating force.
You got it right. The holy spirit is not a person, but a force. It is impersonal. It is simply God's active force. If you wish to discuss whether or not the holy spirit is a person then we can. However, you already labeled it as a force.

Whether it acts as a person or not is completely irrelevant. Maat was impersonal, yet the Egyptians still deified her.
I cannot speak on behalf of Egyptian idolatry, however, the Wikipedia page very plainly states the following:
"Maat was also personified as a goddess regulating the stars, seasons, and the actions of both mortals and the deities, who set the order of the universe from chaos at the moment of creation."

She was not impersonal, clearly.

4. Virgin Mary, the divine feminine.
Mary is not a god. She is not divine.

Catholics revere her as if she was a deity, which makes her one for all intents and purposes. I defined a deity as a being that is worshiped, so there is no need to split hairs.
You need to define what you mean by "worship." Catholics do not believe that they are worshipping Mary in the same sense as God. So how are you defining "worship"? And I am not a Catholic, so this example is still irrelevant.

*yawn* This statement has been addressed so many times that it genuinely gets boring. I recommend the following book:
https://www.amazon.com...

I'm not buying some random book. You can summarize the relevant passages if you want me to respond to them.
It is not random, as it speaks on the very subject you mentioned. I do not care for your response to the book. You are making false statements that have been addressed for hundreds of years. If you want to learn about the topic, then that is a good book to start with. You do not have to read it, but it is something to consider.

You have not presented anything new. Your statements about there being many "gods"

I don't mean gods with the quote marks. I mean you actually worship multiple gods, even if you try to link them together as one hive mind.
I worship only one God, Jehovah. Please tell me how I am worshipping something else.
Genius_Intellect
Posts: 339
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9/10/2016 2:29:41 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/10/2016 1:56:27 AM, Artaxerxes wrote:
At 9/10/2016 1:43:36 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:

Please define what you mean by "god." There are many "gods," as the Scriptures plainly tell us this:

If people worship it, then it's a god, for all intents and purposes.
Okay, then what do you mean by "worship"?

You know what "worship" means.

"For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many 'gods' and many 'lords,' there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him." (1 Corinthians 8:5, 6)

All that says is that God is the originator and sum of all gods. This concept predates Christianity by at least one millennium.
Yes, there is one true God, namely, Jehovah. All of the other "gods" are creations of Jehovah. I am glad we are on the same page.

3. Holy Spirit, the animating force.
You got it right. The holy spirit is not a person, but a force. It is impersonal. It is simply God's active force. If you wish to discuss whether or not the holy spirit is a person then we can. However, you already labeled it as a force.

Whether it acts as a person or not is completely irrelevant. Maat was impersonal, yet the Egyptians still deified her.
I cannot speak on behalf of Egyptian idolatry, however, the Wikipedia page very plainly states the following:
"Maat was also personified as a goddess regulating the stars, seasons, and the actions of both mortals and the deities, who set the order of the universe from chaos at the moment of creation."

She was not impersonal, clearly.

I misspoke, so I will clarify. The Egyptians represented Maat as a feather, or else a goddess holding a feather, but she had no character beyond her function as the symbol of order. In the same way, the Holy Spirit is often portrayed as a dove, but has no character beyond its function as the will of God. Just as we speak of Maat as a separate deity from Ra, so we can speak of the Holy Spirit as a separate deity from Yahweh; the fact that the Holy Spirit is a one-dimensional character with no dialogue doesn't change this.

4. Virgin Mary, the divine feminine.
Mary is not a god. She is not divine.

Catholics revere her as if she was a deity, which makes her one for all intents and purposes. I defined a deity as a being that is worshiped, so there is no need to split hairs.
You need to define what you mean by "worship." Catholics do not believe that they are worshipping Mary in the same sense as God. So how are you defining "worship"?

Of course they don't, but they still venerate her.

And I am not a Catholic, so this example is still irrelevant.

The world doesn't revolve around you.

*yawn* This statement has been addressed so many times that it genuinely gets boring. I recommend the following book:
https://www.amazon.com...

I'm not buying some random book. You can summarize the relevant passages if you want me to respond to them.
It is not random, as it speaks on the very subject you mentioned. I do not care for your response to the book. You are making false statements that have been addressed for hundreds of years. If you want to learn about the topic, then that is a good book to start with. You do not have to read it, but it is something to consider.

No, tell me what it says that is relevant, or else stop citing it. I'm not going to read it just because you say "go on, it'll be fun."

You have not presented anything new. Your statements about there being many "gods"

I don't mean gods with the quote marks. I mean you actually worship multiple gods, even if you try to link them together as one hive mind.
I worship only one God, Jehovah. Please tell me how I am worshipping something else.

Since I placed BOP squarely on the Christians in my OP, please explain how Jesus is NOT a separate deity. Yes, he's God in the flesh, but that doesn't change the fact that he's treated as a separate character.
Artaxerxes
Posts: 181
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9/10/2016 3:51:04 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/10/2016 2:29:41 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:

Okay, then what do you mean by "worship"?

You know what "worship" means.
No, I really don't. The Bible describes more than one type of worship. The Greek word proskuneo is used various times in the Bible for various people. Sometimes it is rendered as "worship." Other times it is rendered to indicate simply paying respect. For example, Matthew 18:26 uses the word:
"So the slave fell down and did obeisance to him [his master], saying, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay back everything to you.'"

The same word is also applied to Jesus in various verses (Hebrews 1:6). However, the word is also used to describe worship given to the Father:
"Then Jesus said to him: 'Go away, Satan! For it is written: 'It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.'" (Matthew 4:10)

"Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth." (John 4:23, 24)

She was not impersonal, clearly.

I misspoke, so I will clarify. The Egyptians represented Maat as a feather, or else a goddess holding a feather, but she had no character beyond her function as the symbol of order. In the same way, the Holy Spirit is often portrayed as a dove, but has no character beyond its function as the will of God. Just as we speak of Maat as a separate deity from Ra, so we can speak of the Holy Spirit as a separate deity from Yahweh; the fact that the Holy Spirit is a one-dimensional character with no dialogue doesn't change this.
To be sure, every description of God is an anthropomorphism. For example, the Bible describes God as the "Father." That is an anthropomorphism. God is not really a father in the same sense as our human father, but it does give us an understanding of our relationship with Him. So the same thing happens, perhaps, to the Egyptian goddess you are describing. Though I do not believe that the parallel is there for her and the holy spirit. The Wikipedia page very clearly distinguished "Maat as Principle" and "Maat as a Goddess." Regardless, you still have to show me where I am worshipping the holy spirit.

You need to define what you mean by "worship." Catholics do not believe that they are worshipping Mary in the same sense as God. So how are you defining "worship"?

Of course they don't, but they still venerate her.
Yes, but they would not define that as worship.

And I am not a Catholic, so this example is still irrelevant.

The world doesn't revolve around you.
No, but do not expect me to defend a position that I do not adhere to.

It is not random, as it speaks on the very subject you mentioned. I do not care for your response to the book. You are making false statements that have been addressed for hundreds of years. If you want to learn about the topic, then that is a good book to start with. You do not have to read it, but it is something to consider.

No, tell me what it says that is relevant, or else stop citing it. I'm not going to read it just because you say "go on, it'll be fun."
The whole book is relevant, as it deals with the false position of Christianity being rooted in pagan beliefs. You do not have to read that specific book, as there are literally hundreds that deal with the very topic. You do not have to read any of them, but do not blame anyone except yourself for remaining in ignorance on the topic.

I worship only one God, Jehovah. Please tell me how I am worshipping something else.

Since I placed BOP squarely on the Christians in my OP, please explain how Jesus is NOT a separate deity. Yes, he's God in the flesh, but that doesn't change the fact that he's treated as a separate character.
I have told you that he is. Jesus is NOT God (Jehovah) in the flesh. Jesus is God's Son, the Christ. Jesus is "a god," in the same sense that Satan is "a god." Or in the same sense of Psalm 82:
"God takes his place in the divine assembly; In the middle of the gods he judges: 'How long will you continue to judge with injustice And show partiality to the wicked? (Selah) Defend the lowly and the fatherless. Render justice to the helpless and destitute. Rescue the lowly and the poor; Save them out of the hand of the wicked.' They do not know, nor do they understand; They are walking about in darkness; All the foundations of the earth are being shaken. 'I have said, 'You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. But you will die just as men do; And like any other prince you will fall!' Rise up, O God, and judge the earth, For all the nations belong to you."

So if you are defining creations of Jehovah (God) as equal to Him, then I can see why there is a disconnect. They are not equal to Him. They will, to quote the Psalm, "die just as men do." Jehovah is the one true God (John 17:3).

So my question remains. If you are claiming that I am worshipping more than just Jehovah, please inform me as to where. I do not worship Jesus, the holy spirit, Mary, or Satan. I only worship the one true God, Jehovah.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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9/10/2016 3:59:14 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/10/2016 1:56:27 AM, Artaxerxes wrote:
At 9/10/2016 1:43:36 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:

You identify yourself as a Christian, yet you parrot the same old worn-out (and refuted) arguments that WatchTower adherents have periodically made on here. It's the same old word games, often involving the same passages.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
uncung
Posts: 3,453
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9/10/2016 3:59:45 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/10/2016 3:51:04 PM, Artaxerxes wrote:
At 9/10/2016 2:29:41 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:

Okay, then what do you mean by "worship"?

You know what "worship" means.
No, I really don't. The Bible describes more than one type of worship. The Greek word proskuneo is used various times in the Bible for various people. Sometimes it is rendered as "worship." Other times it is rendered to indicate simply paying respect. For example, Matthew 18:26 uses the word:
"So the slave fell down and did obeisance to him [his master], saying, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay back everything to you.'"

The same word is also applied to Jesus in various verses (Hebrews 1:6). However, the word is also used to describe worship given to the Father:
"Then Jesus said to him: 'Go away, Satan! For it is written: 'It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.'" (Matthew 4:10)

"Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth." (John 4:23, 24)

She was not impersonal, clearly.

I misspoke, so I will clarify. The Egyptians represented Maat as a feather, or else a goddess holding a feather, but she had no character beyond her function as the symbol of order. In the same way, the Holy Spirit is often portrayed as a dove, but has no character beyond its function as the will of God. Just as we speak of Maat as a separate deity from Ra, so we can speak of the Holy Spirit as a separate deity from Yahweh; the fact that the Holy Spirit is a one-dimensional character with no dialogue doesn't change this.
To be sure, every description of God is an anthropomorphism. For example, the Bible describes God as the "Father." That is an anthropomorphism. God is not really a father in the same sense as our human father, but it does give us an understanding of our relationship with Him. So the same thing happens, perhaps, to the Egyptian goddess you are describing. Though I do not believe that the parallel is there for her and the holy spirit. The Wikipedia page very clearly distinguished "Maat as Principle" and "Maat as a Goddess." Regardless, you still have to show me where I am worshipping the holy spirit.

You need to define what you mean by "worship." Catholics do not believe that they are worshipping Mary in the same sense as God. So how are you defining "worship"?

Of course they don't, but they still venerate her.
Yes, but they would not define that as worship.

And I am not a Catholic, so this example is still irrelevant.

The world doesn't revolve around you.
No, but do not expect me to defend a position that I do not adhere to.

It is not random, as it speaks on the very subject you mentioned. I do not care for your response to the book. You are making false statements that have been addressed for hundreds of years. If you want to learn about the topic, then that is a good book to start with. You do not have to read it, but it is something to consider.

No, tell me what it says that is relevant, or else stop citing it. I'm not going to read it just because you say "go on, it'll be fun."
The whole book is relevant, as it deals with the false position of Christianity being rooted in pagan beliefs. You do not have to read that specific book, as there are literally hundreds that deal with the very topic. You do not have to read any of them, but do not blame anyone except yourself for remaining in ignorance on the topic.

I worship only one God, Jehovah. Please tell me how I am worshipping something else.

Since I placed BOP squarely on the Christians in my OP, please explain how Jesus is NOT a separate deity. Yes, he's God in the flesh, but that doesn't change the fact that he's treated as a separate character.
I have told you that he is. Jesus is NOT God (Jehovah) in the flesh. Jesus is God's Son, the Christ. Jesus is "a god," in the same sense that Satan is "a god." Or in the same sense of Psalm 82:
"God takes his place in the divine assembly; In the middle of the gods he judges: 'How long will you continue to judge with injustice And show partiality to the wicked? (Selah) Defend the lowly and the fatherless. Render justice to the helpless and destitute. Rescue the lowly and the poor; Save them out of the hand of the wicked.' They do not know, nor do they understand; They are walking about in darkness; All the foundations of the earth are being shaken. 'I have said, 'You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. But you will die just as men do; And like any other prince you will fall!' Rise up, O God, and judge the earth, For all the nations belong to you."

So if you are defining creations of Jehovah (God) as equal to Him, then I can see why there is a disconnect. They are not equal to Him. They will, to quote the Psalm, "die just as men do." Jehovah is the one true God (John 17:3).

So my question remains. If you are claiming that I am worshipping more than just Jehovah, please inform me as to where. I do not worship Jesus, the holy spirit, Mary, or Satan. I only worship the one true God, Jehovah.

DO YOU WORSHIP YOUR JESUS? HOW?
bulproof
Posts: 25,247
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9/10/2016 4:02:11 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/10/2016 3:59:45 PM, uncung wrote:
At 9/10/2016 3:51:04 PM, Artaxerxes wrote:
At 9/10/2016 2:29:41 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:

Okay, then what do you mean by "worship"?

You know what "worship" means.
No, I really don't. The Bible describes more than one type of worship. The Greek word proskuneo is used various times in the Bible for various people. Sometimes it is rendered as "worship." Other times it is rendered to indicate simply paying respect. For example, Matthew 18:26 uses the word:
"So the slave fell down and did obeisance to him [his master], saying, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay back everything to you.'"

The same word is also applied to Jesus in various verses (Hebrews 1:6). However, the word is also used to describe worship given to the Father:
"Then Jesus said to him: 'Go away, Satan! For it is written: 'It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.'" (Matthew 4:10)

"Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth." (John 4:23, 24)

She was not impersonal, clearly.

I misspoke, so I will clarify. The Egyptians represented Maat as a feather, or else a goddess holding a feather, but she had no character beyond her function as the symbol of order. In the same way, the Holy Spirit is often portrayed as a dove, but has no character beyond its function as the will of God. Just as we speak of Maat as a separate deity from Ra, so we can speak of the Holy Spirit as a separate deity from Yahweh; the fact that the Holy Spirit is a one-dimensional character with no dialogue doesn't change this.
To be sure, every description of God is an anthropomorphism. For example, the Bible describes God as the "Father." That is an anthropomorphism. God is not really a father in the same sense as our human father, but it does give us an understanding of our relationship with Him. So the same thing happens, perhaps, to the Egyptian goddess you are describing. Though I do not believe that the parallel is there for her and the holy spirit. The Wikipedia page very clearly distinguished "Maat as Principle" and "Maat as a Goddess." Regardless, you still have to show me where I am worshipping the holy spirit.

You need to define what you mean by "worship." Catholics do not believe that they are worshipping Mary in the same sense as God. So how are you defining "worship"?

Of course they don't, but they still venerate her.
Yes, but they would not define that as worship.

And I am not a Catholic, so this example is still irrelevant.

The world doesn't revolve around you.
No, but do not expect me to defend a position that I do not adhere to.

It is not random, as it speaks on the very subject you mentioned. I do not care for your response to the book. You are making false statements that have been addressed for hundreds of years. If you want to learn about the topic, then that is a good book to start with. You do not have to read it, but it is something to consider.

No, tell me what it says that is relevant, or else stop citing it. I'm not going to read it just because you say "go on, it'll be fun."
The whole book is relevant, as it deals with the false position of Christianity being rooted in pagan beliefs. You do not have to read that specific book, as there are literally hundreds that deal with the very topic. You do not have to read any of them, but do not blame anyone except yourself for remaining in ignorance on the topic.

I worship only one God, Jehovah. Please tell me how I am worshipping something else.

Since I placed BOP squarely on the Christians in my OP, please explain how Jesus is NOT a separate deity. Yes, he's God in the flesh, but that doesn't change the fact that he's treated as a separate character.
I have told you that he is. Jesus is NOT God (Jehovah) in the flesh. Jesus is God's Son, the Christ. Jesus is "a god," in the same sense that Satan is "a god." Or in the same sense of Psalm 82:
"God takes his place in the divine assembly; In the middle of the gods he judges: 'How long will you continue to judge with injustice And show partiality to the wicked? (Selah) Defend the lowly and the fatherless. Render justice to the helpless and destitute. Rescue the lowly and the poor; Save them out of the hand of the wicked.' They do not know, nor do they understand; They are walking about in darkness; All the foundations of the earth are being shaken. 'I have said, 'You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. But you will die just as men do; And like any other prince you will fall!' Rise up, O God, and judge the earth, For all the nations belong to you."

So if you are defining creations of Jehovah (God) as equal to Him, then I can see why there is a disconnect. They are not equal to Him. They will, to quote the Psalm, "die just as men do." Jehovah is the one true God (John 17:3).

So my question remains. If you are claiming that I am worshipping more than just Jehovah, please inform me as to where. I do not worship Jesus, the holy spirit, Mary, or Satan. I only worship the one true God, Jehovah.

DO YOU WORSHIP YOUR JESUS? HOW?
Do you worship your muhammad and the book written hundreds of years after his death?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Artaxerxes
Posts: 181
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9/10/2016 4:20:02 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/10/2016 3:59:14 PM, annanicole wrote:

You identify yourself as a Christian, yet you parrot the same old worn-out (and refuted) arguments that WatchTower adherents have periodically made on here. It's the same old word games, often involving the same passages.
Anna, this is tstor. I lost my information to the other account, so I had to make a new one. Glad to see you still haven't changed :)
annanicole
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9/10/2016 4:26:26 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/10/2016 4:20:02 PM, Artaxerxes wrote:
At 9/10/2016 3:59:14 PM, annanicole wrote:

You identify yourself as a Christian, yet you parrot the same old worn-out (and refuted) arguments that WatchTower adherents have periodically made on here. It's the same old word games, often involving the same passages.
Anna, this is tstor. I lost my information to the other account, so I had to make a new one. Glad to see you still haven't changed :)

Not in the least. I wondered what happened to you. You actually seemed way to bright to be even remotely connected with WatchTower doctrines. (Of course, I can't say that about the MadClown or kjw or some of the others).
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Artaxerxes
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9/10/2016 4:29:47 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/10/2016 4:26:26 PM, annanicole wrote:

Not in the least. I wondered what happened to you. You actually seemed way to bright to be even remotely connected with WatchTower doctrines. (Of course, I can't say that about the MadClown or kjw or some of the others).
Aww, thanks.
uncung
Posts: 3,453
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9/10/2016 5:58:20 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
DO YOU WORSHIP YOUR JESUS? HOW?
Do you worship your muhammad and the book written hundreds of years after his death?

no, we don't.
Genius_Intellect
Posts: 339
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9/10/2016 10:56:04 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/10/2016 3:51:04 PM, Artaxerxes wrote:
At 9/10/2016 2:29:41 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:

Okay, then what do you mean by "worship"?

You know what "worship" means.
No, I really don't. The Bible describes more than one type of worship. The Greek word proskuneo is used various times in the Bible for various people. Sometimes it is rendered as "worship." Other times it is rendered to indicate simply paying respect. For example, Matthew 18:26 uses the word:
"So the slave fell down and did obeisance to him [his master], saying, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay back everything to you.'"

The same word is also applied to Jesus in various verses (Hebrews 1:6). However, the word is also used to describe worship given to the Father:
"Then Jesus said to him: 'Go away, Satan! For it is written: 'It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.'" (Matthew 4:10)

"Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth." (John 4:23, 24)

I don't give a damn what word the Greeks used. The English definition of "worship" is universally understood, and you can Google it for free.

She was not impersonal, clearly.

I misspoke, so I will clarify. The Egyptians represented Maat as a feather, or else a goddess holding a feather, but she had no character beyond her function as the symbol of order. In the same way, the Holy Spirit is often portrayed as a dove, but has no character beyond its function as the will of God. Just as we speak of Maat as a separate deity from Ra, so we can speak of the Holy Spirit as a separate deity from Yahweh; the fact that the Holy Spirit is a one-dimensional character with no dialogue doesn't change this.
To be sure, every description of God is an anthropomorphism. For example, the Bible describes God as the "Father." That is an anthropomorphism. God is not really a father in the same sense as our human father, but it does give us an understanding of our relationship with Him. So the same thing happens, perhaps, to the Egyptian goddess you are describing. Though I do not believe that the parallel is there for her and the holy spirit. The Wikipedia page very clearly distinguished "Maat as Principle" and "Maat as a Goddess." Regardless, you still have to show me where I am worshipping the holy spirit.

Whenever you venerate "the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit," you deify the Holy Spirit. The fact that they're three aspects of the same God just shows you're pantheistic as well as polytheistic.

You need to define what you mean by "worship." Catholics do not believe that they are worshipping Mary in the same sense as God. So how are you defining "worship"?

Of course they don't, but they still venerate her.
Yes, but they would not define that as worship.

That's like countering a charge of public urination by saying, "I was only pissing blood, so it's not urination."

And I am not a Catholic, so this example is still irrelevant.

The world doesn't revolve around you.
No, but do not expect me to defend a position that I do not adhere to.

Then stop.

It is not random, as it speaks on the very subject you mentioned. I do not care for your response to the book. You are making false statements that have been addressed for hundreds of years. If you want to learn about the topic, then that is a good book to start with. You do not have to read it, but it is something to consider.

No, tell me what it says that is relevant, or else stop citing it. I'm not going to read it just because you say "go on, it'll be fun."
The whole book is relevant, as it deals with the false position of Christianity being rooted in pagan beliefs. You do not have to read that specific book, as there are literally hundreds that deal with the very topic. You do not have to read any of them, but do not blame anyone except yourself for remaining in ignorance on the topic.

You have yet to do anything except deflect my questions by calling me ignorant. If the books are worth my reading, prove it by citing something in them to counter my points. If you convince me of their merits, THEN I may consider investing the time and money to read them.

I worship only one God, Jehovah. Please tell me how I am worshipping something else.

Since I placed BOP squarely on the Christians in my OP, please explain how Jesus is NOT a separate deity. Yes, he's God in the flesh, but that doesn't change the fact that he's treated as a separate character.
I have told you that he is. Jesus is NOT God (Jehovah) in the flesh. Jesus is God's Son, the Christ. Jesus is "a god," in the same sense that Satan is "a god." Or in the same sense of Psalm 82:
"God takes his place in the divine assembly; In the middle of the gods he judges: 'How long will you continue to judge with injustice And show partiality to the wicked? (Selah) Defend the lowly and the fatherless. Render justice to the helpless and destitute. Rescue the lowly and the poor; Save them out of the hand of the wicked.' They do not know, nor do they understand; They are walking about in darkness; All the foundations of the earth are being shaken. 'I have said, 'You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. But you will die just as men do; And like any other prince you will fall!' Rise up, O God, and judge the earth, For all the nations belong to you."

Psalm 82 isn't referring to Jesus or Satan though. If you read the other Psalms around it, they are clearly directed at arrogant people who fancy themselves as "gods". The term "gods" here is strictly metaphorical.

So if you are defining creations of Jehovah (God) as equal to Him, then I can see why there is a disconnect. They are not equal to Him. They will, to quote the Psalm, "die just as men do." Jehovah is the one true God (John 17:3).

So my question remains. If you are claiming that I am worshipping more than just Jehovah, please inform me as to where. I do not worship Jesus, the holy spirit, Mary, or Satan. I only worship the one true God, Jehovah.

To clarify, do you accept or reject the concept of the Trinity?
Artaxerxes
Posts: 181
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9/11/2016 3:54:43 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/10/2016 10:56:04 PM, Genius_Intellect wrote:

I don't give a damn what word the Greeks used. The English definition of "worship" is universally understood, and you can Google it for free.
You do know that the New Testament was originally written in Greek, right? So it is vitally important to know what the text is conveying based off of the original Greek. Give me the definition of "worship" you are trying to use. You are making the claim, so you should be able to define it.

To be sure, every description of God is an anthropomorphism. For example, the Bible describes God as the "Father." That is an anthropomorphism. God is not really a father in the same sense as our human father, but it does give us an understanding of our relationship with Him. So the same thing happens, perhaps, to the Egyptian goddess you are describing. Though I do not believe that the parallel is there for her and the holy spirit. The Wikipedia page very clearly distinguished "Maat as Principle" and "Maat as a Goddess." Regardless, you still have to show me where I am worshipping the holy spirit.

Whenever you venerate "the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit," you deify the Holy Spirit. The fact that they're three aspects of the same God just shows you're pantheistic as well as polytheistic.
Not exactly. I do not believe that they are three aspects of the same God. There is one God, Jehovah. Jehovah has a Son, Christ. Jehovah also has an active force, the holy spirit.

Yes, but they would not define that as worship.

That's like countering a charge of public urination by saying, "I was only pissing blood, so it's not urination."
I agree, which is why I reject Catholicism. However, hopefully this example will show that you need to define what you mean by "worship."

The whole book is relevant, as it deals with the false position of Christianity being rooted in pagan beliefs. You do not have to read that specific book, as there are literally hundreds that deal with the very topic. You do not have to read any of them, but do not blame anyone except yourself for remaining in ignorance on the topic.

You have yet to do anything except deflect my questions by calling me ignorant. If the books are worth my reading, prove it by citing something in them to counter my points. If you convince me of their merits, THEN I may consider investing the time and money to read them.
You did not ask a question. You made a false statement, which is that Christianity had pagan roots. I do not particularly care to derail your topic with another one, so I simply recommended a book, as you are in error. Time is never an issue. You are wasting time on a public internet forum. Money is also not an issue, as there are thousands of free articles on the internet. Ignorance is a choice.

Psalm 82 isn't referring to Jesus or Satan though. If you read the other Psalms around it, they are clearly directed at arrogant people who fancy themselves as "gods". The term "gods" here is strictly metaphorical.
You are right, it does not name them. Yet Jesus and Satan would fall into that same category of lesser "gods." This could mean false gods, judges, leaders, etc.

To clarify, do you accept or reject the concept of the Trinity?
Absolutely not.
uncung
Posts: 3,453
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9/11/2016 5:23:53 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/10/2016 10:56:04 PM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
At 9/10/2016 3:51:04 PM, Artaxerxes wrote:
At 9/10/2016 2:29:41 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:

Okay, then what do you mean by "worship"?

You know what "worship" means.
No, I really don't. The Bible describes more than one type of worship. The Greek word proskuneo is used various times in the Bible for various people. Sometimes it is rendered as "worship." Other times it is rendered to indicate simply paying respect. For example, Matthew 18:26 uses the word:
"So the slave fell down and did obeisance to him [his master], saying, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay back everything to you.'"

The same word is also applied to Jesus in various verses (Hebrews 1:6). However, the word is also used to describe worship given to the Father:
"Then Jesus said to him: 'Go away, Satan! For it is written: 'It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.'" (Matthew 4:10)

"Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth." (John 4:23, 24)

I don't give a damn what word the Greeks used. The English definition of "worship" is universally understood, and you can Google it for free.

She was not impersonal, clearly.

I misspoke, so I will clarify. The Egyptians represented Maat as a feather, or else a goddess holding a feather, but she had no character beyond her function as the symbol of order. In the same way, the Holy Spirit is often portrayed as a dove, but has no character beyond its function as the will of God. Just as we speak of Maat as a separate deity from Ra, so we can speak of the Holy Spirit as a separate deity from Yahweh; the fact that the Holy Spirit is a one-dimensional character with no dialogue doesn't change this.
To be sure, every description of God is an anthropomorphism. For example, the Bible describes God as the "Father." That is an anthropomorphism. God is not really a father in the same sense as our human father, but it does give us an understanding of our relationship with Him. So the same thing happens, perhaps, to the Egyptian goddess you are describing. Though I do not believe that the parallel is there for her and the holy spirit. The Wikipedia page very clearly distinguished "Maat as Principle" and "Maat as a Goddess." Regardless, you still have to show me where I am worshipping the holy spirit.

Whenever you venerate "the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit," you deify the Holy Spirit. The fact that they're three aspects of the same God just shows you're pantheistic as well as polytheistic.

You need to define what you mean by "worship." Catholics do not believe that they are worshipping Mary in the same sense as God. So how are you defining "worship"?

Of course they don't, but they still venerate her.
Yes, but they would not define that as worship.

That's like countering a charge of public urination by saying, "I was only pissing blood, so it's not urination."

And I am not a Catholic, so this example is still irrelevant.

The world doesn't revolve around you.
No, but do not expect me to defend a position that I do not adhere to.

Then stop.

It is not random, as it speaks on the very subject you mentioned. I do not care for your response to the book. You are making false statements that have been addressed for hundreds of years. If you want to learn about the topic, then that is a good book to start with. You do not have to read it, but it is something to consider.

No, tell me what it says that is relevant, or else stop citing it. I'm not going to read it just because you say "go on, it'll be fun."
The whole book is relevant, as it deals with the false position of Christianity being rooted in pagan beliefs. You do not have to read that specific book, as there are literally hundreds that deal with the very topic. You do not have to read any of them, but do not blame anyone except yourself for remaining in ignorance on the topic.

You have yet to do anything except deflect my questions by calling me ignorant. If the books are worth my reading, prove it by citing something in them to counter my points. If you convince me of their merits, THEN I may consider investing the time and money to read them.

I worship only one God, Jehovah. Please tell me how I am worshipping something else.

Since I placed BOP squarely on the Christians in my OP, please explain how Jesus is NOT a separate deity. Yes, he's God in the flesh, but that doesn't change the fact that he's treated as a separate character.
I have told you that he is. Jesus is NOT God (Jehovah) in the flesh. Jesus is God's Son, the Christ. Jesus is "a god," in the same sense that Satan is "a god." Or in the same sense of Psalm 82:
"God takes his place in the divine assembly; In the middle of the gods he judges: 'How long will you continue to judge with injustice And show partiality to the wicked? (Selah) Defend the lowly and the fatherless. Render justice to the helpless and destitute. Rescue the lowly and the poor; Save them out of the hand of the wicked.' They do not know, nor do they understand; They are walking about in darkness; All the foundations of the earth are being shaken. 'I have said, 'You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. But you will die just as men do; And like any other prince you will fall!' Rise up, O God, and judge the earth, For all the nations belong to you."

Psalm 82 isn't referring to Jesus or Satan though. If you read the other Psalms around it, they are clearly directed at arrogant people who fancy themselves as "gods". The term "gods" here is strictly metaphorical.

So if you are defining creations of Jehovah (God) as equal to Him, then I can see why there is a disconnect. They are not equal to Him. They will, to quote the Psalm, "die just as men do." Jehovah is the one true God (John 17:3).

So my question remains. If you are claiming that I am worshipping more than just Jehovah, please inform me as to where. I do not worship Jesus, the holy spirit, Mary, or Satan. I only worship the one true God, Jehovah.

To clarify, do you accept or reject the concept of the Trinity?

he might be a jehovah witnesses. they don't consider jesus as a God. but do they pray to jesus or to holy spirit?
Genius_Intellect
Posts: 339
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9/11/2016 8:05:09 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/11/2016 3:54:43 AM, Artaxerxes wrote:
At 9/10/2016 10:56:04 PM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
I don't give a damn what word the Greeks used. The English definition of "worship" is universally understood, and you can Google it for free.
You do know that the New Testament was originally written in Greek, right? So it is vitally important to know what the text is conveying based off of the original Greek. Give me the definition of "worship" you are trying to use. You are making the claim, so you should be able to define it.

I'm aware that the NT was written in Greek. This conversation, however, is in English.

To clarify, do you accept or reject the concept of the Trinity?
Absolutely not.

Since you're not a real Christian, why are you arguing with me?
kjw47
Posts: 1,624
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9/11/2016 12:06:27 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/9/2016 8:54:38 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
It has five major gods:

1. Yahweh, the sky father and divine law.
2. Jesus, the savior and teacher.
3. Holy Spirit, the animating force.
4. Virgin Mary, the divine feminine.
5. Satan, the tempter/trickster.

Every saint, angel, and demon would then constitute a minor deity.

Whether you worship all of them or not is irrelevant. Your acknowledgment of their existence and power is enough to deify them, at least to the standards that any pagan religion would apply.

It also makes no difference that three of your gods are combined into one (the Trinity). By referring to them separately, you make them separate beings.

And finally, it doesn't matter what the Bible says on the matter, since the Bible is only a tiny and insignificant fraction of your mythology. Most of your ideas are derived from the Greek and Roman religions, or else completely fabricated by Medieval writers.

Let's see anybody dispute this via rational argument.

Not all is as appears in a satan ruled world-- God is one--not 3 in one-- the world resides in darkness and are very confused--99% would say the 33,000 trinity religions(a divided house that will not stand-Mark 3:24-26) are Christian religions-- they are not in reality--there is no trinity god in existence--those are being mislead to break Gods #1 commandment daily-- no Christian breaks Gods #1commandment daily--proving they are not Christian-they are only to those who reside in darkness and reason falsely. Those religions--DO NOT listen to Jesus.
tarantula
Posts: 858
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9/11/2016 12:21:18 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/11/2016 12:06:27 PM, kjw47 wrote:
At 9/9/2016 8:54:38 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
It has five major gods:

1. Yahweh, the sky father and divine law.
2. Jesus, the savior and teacher.
3. Holy Spirit, the animating force.
4. Virgin Mary, the divine feminine.
5. Satan, the tempter/trickster.

Every saint, angel, and demon would then constitute a minor deity.

Whether you worship all of them or not is irrelevant. Your acknowledgment of their existence and power is enough to deify them, at least to the standards that any pagan religion would apply.

It also makes no difference that three of your gods are combined into one (the Trinity). By referring to them separately, you make them separate beings.

And finally, it doesn't matter what the Bible says on the matter, since the Bible is only a tiny and insignificant fraction of your mythology. Most of your ideas are derived from the Greek and Roman religions, or else completely fabricated by Medieval writers.

Let's see anybody dispute this via rational argument.


Not all is as appears in a satan ruled world-- God is one--not 3 in one-- the world resides in darkness and are very confused--99% would say the 33,000 trinity religions(a divided house that will not stand-Mark 3:24-26) are Christian religions-- they are not in reality--there is no trinity god in existence--those are being mislead to break Gods #1 commandment daily-- no Christian breaks Gods #1commandment daily--proving they are not Christian-they are only to those who reside in darkness and reason falsely. Those religions--DO NOT listen to Jesus.

Jesus was not a god just a mere mortal like the rest of us, and far from perfect if the gospel accounts are anything to go by.
kjw47
Posts: 1,624
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9/11/2016 2:04:33 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/11/2016 12:21:18 PM, tarantula wrote:
At 9/11/2016 12:06:27 PM, kjw47 wrote:
At 9/9/2016 8:54:38 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
It has five major gods:

1. Yahweh, the sky father and divine law.
2. Jesus, the savior and teacher.
3. Holy Spirit, the animating force.
4. Virgin Mary, the divine feminine.
5. Satan, the tempter/trickster.

Every saint, angel, and demon would then constitute a minor deity.

Whether you worship all of them or not is irrelevant. Your acknowledgment of their existence and power is enough to deify them, at least to the standards that any pagan religion would apply.

It also makes no difference that three of your gods are combined into one (the Trinity). By referring to them separately, you make them separate beings.

And finally, it doesn't matter what the Bible says on the matter, since the Bible is only a tiny and insignificant fraction of your mythology. Most of your ideas are derived from the Greek and Roman religions, or else completely fabricated by Medieval writers.

Let's see anybody dispute this via rational argument.


Not all is as appears in a satan ruled world-- God is one--not 3 in one-- the world resides in darkness and are very confused--99% would say the 33,000 trinity religions(a divided house that will not stand-Mark 3:24-26) are Christian religions-- they are not in reality--there is no trinity god in existence--those are being mislead to break Gods #1 commandment daily-- no Christian breaks Gods #1commandment daily--proving they are not Christian-they are only to those who reside in darkness and reason falsely. Those religions--DO NOT listen to Jesus.

Jesus was not a god just a mere mortal like the rest of us, and far from perfect if the gospel accounts are anything to go by.

Yes, Jesus was a mortal on earth, yet existed before he came to the earth. God sent him-John 5:30)--- he never sinned, thus was perfect in that sense.
Artaxerxes
Posts: 181
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9/11/2016 3:44:50 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/11/2016 8:05:09 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:

You do know that the New Testament was originally written in Greek, right? So it is vitally important to know what the text is conveying based off of the original Greek. Give me the definition of "worship" you are trying to use. You are making the claim, so you should be able to define it.

I'm aware that the NT was written in Greek. This conversation, however, is in English.
Our discussion may be in English, but it is about a Greek text.

Absolutely not.

Since you're not a real Christian, why are you arguing with me?
So now I have to ask, what is your definition of a "Christian"? It does not look like anyone is very anxious to speak with you other than me or kjw (who is a Jehovah's Witness).
uncung
Posts: 3,453
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9/11/2016 3:59:54 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/11/2016 3:45:54 PM, Artaxerxes wrote:
At 9/11/2016 5:23:53 AM, uncung wrote:

but do they pray to jesus or to holy spirit?
No

why don't they pray to jesus, yet Christians treat jesus as a God?
Artaxerxes
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9/11/2016 4:04:16 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/11/2016 3:59:54 PM, uncung wrote:

why don't they pray to jesus, yet Christians treat jesus as a God?
Some "Christians" believe that Jesus is God. This is a false teaching that is found nowhere in the Bible. Therefore, it is not proper to pray to Jesus. Jesus gave us a great example of how to pray and who to pray to:
"You must pray, then, this way: 'Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also on earth. Give us today our bread for this day; and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And do not bring us into temptation, but deliver us from the wicked one.'" (Matthew 6:9-13)
Genius_Intellect
Posts: 339
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9/12/2016 4:26:42 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/11/2016 3:44:50 PM, Artaxerxes wrote:
At 9/11/2016 8:05:09 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:

You do know that the New Testament was originally written in Greek, right? So it is vitally important to know what the text is conveying based off of the original Greek. Give me the definition of "worship" you are trying to use. You are making the claim, so you should be able to define it.

I'm aware that the NT was written in Greek. This conversation, however, is in English.
Our discussion may be in English, but it is about a Greek text.

No it's not. The Bible is but one small part of the greater mythology surrounding God and Jesus. Most of that mythology was developed after the fall of the Western Roman Empire, whereupon much of Europe spoke Celtic or Germanic languages instead.

Absolutely not.

Since you're not a real Christian, why are you arguing with me?
So now I have to ask, what is your definition of a "Christian"? It does not look like anyone is very anxious to speak with you other than me or kjw (who is a Jehovah's Witness).

Better question: why did you not immediately state your beliefs upfront? That way, we could have avoided our entire useless conversation.
zaarbuc
Posts: 43
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9/12/2016 6:40:49 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/9/2016 8:54:38 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
It has five major gods:

1. Yahweh, the sky father and divine law.
2. Jesus, the savior and teacher.
3. Holy Spirit, the animating force.
4. Virgin Mary, the divine feminine.
5. Satan, the tempter/trickster.

Every saint, angel, and demon would then constitute a minor deity.

Whether you worship all of them or not is irrelevant. Your acknowledgment of their existence and power is enough to deify them, at least to the standards that any pagan religion would apply.

It also makes no difference that three of your gods are combined into one (the Trinity). By referring to them separately, you make them separate beings.

And finally, it doesn't matter what the Bible says on the matter, since the Bible is only a tiny and insignificant fraction of your mythology. Most of your ideas are derived from the Greek and Roman religions, or else completely fabricated by Medieval writers.

Let's see anybody dispute this via rational argument.

I'm not sure you can claim Mary as a Christian god unless you are talking about Catholicism. She has a much less important role in most other Christian denominations. Same with saints and angels. Muslims would certainly agree with you on the trinity and is one of the major differences between Christianity and Islam. Islam considers the trinity a form of polytheism and blasphemous. They consider Jesus a prophet and the messiah, but not the son of God.

Stimulating debate about how Christianity should be classified aside the whole thing is really moot since there is absolutely no credible evidence for the existence of any gods let alone the Abrahamic God.
Genius_Intellect
Posts: 339
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9/12/2016 7:46:58 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/12/2016 6:40:49 AM, zaarbuc wrote:
I'm not sure you can claim Mary as a Christian god unless you are talking about Catholicism.

Obviously.

She has a much less important role in most other Christian denominations. Same with saints and angels. Muslims would certainly agree with you on the trinity and is one of the major differences between Christianity and Islam. Islam considers the trinity a form of polytheism and blasphemous. They consider Jesus a prophet and the messiah, but not the son of God.

Stimulating debate about how Christianity should be classified aside the whole thing is really moot since there is absolutely no credible evidence for the existence of any gods let alone the Abrahamic God.

Of course there's no evidence. Myths, like poems, aren't supposed to be taken literally.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,093
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9/12/2016 7:53:15 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/9/2016 8:54:38 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
It has five major gods:

1. Yahweh, the sky father and divine law.
2. Jesus, the savior and teacher.
3. Holy Spirit, the animating force.
4. Virgin Mary, the divine feminine.
5. Satan, the tempter/trickster.

Every saint, angel, and demon would then constitute a minor deity.

Whether you worship all of them or not is irrelevant. Your acknowledgment of their existence and power is enough to deify them, at least to the standards that any pagan religion would apply.

It also makes no difference that three of your gods are combined into one (the Trinity). By referring to them separately, you make them separate beings.

And finally, it doesn't matter what the Bible says on the matter, since the Bible is only a tiny and insignificant fraction of your mythology. Most of your ideas are derived from the Greek and Roman religions, or else completely fabricated by Medieval writers.

Let's see anybody dispute this via rational argument.

the triune God ...
mary is not a god...
satan is a fallen angel not a god...

but apart from that, well done very insightful...