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Are we supposed to get any closure with God?

Stupidape
Posts: 171
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9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
uncung
Posts: 3,452
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9/11/2016 11:22:55 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

the existence of the universe and living beings is the tangible proof of God existence.
Willows
Posts: 2,056
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9/11/2016 11:34:55 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...-
the-craig-harris

His very first statement is arrogance and an outright lie.........."God is the best explanation why anything at all exists."

He would know very well that of all the theories of existence, God is one of the least credible.

He goes on to say........."there"s only one way I can think......"

That was the only believable part of his rambling prose.

When will these people stop trying to rationalise their absurd beliefs?
PureX
Posts: 1,527
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9/11/2016 2:40:19 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

It is our ego that constantly insists that we must "know that God exists". Because knowledge is how we gain control over the circumstances of our own existence. And our egos make us believe that we should have that control.

But we do not have that knowledge, and we do not control the circumstances of our own existence. And this frightens us, and makes us angry, and resentful. Our egos tell us that we should be gods. And our ignorance keeps showing us that we are not.

The antidote to this dilemma is faith. And that's what most religions are mainly offering. They are offering us ways of trusting in the unknown, and unknowable. Of living with our fear of the unknown, and of our lack of control over our own existence.

Unfortunately, some expressions of religion do this by selling us the pretense of knowledge, and ego-attractive self-delusions. But everything we humans do inevitably gets perverted by our greed and ignorance.

But the perversions don't negate the original purpose, for most people. And that is to use faith as a means of dealing with our unknowing, and our fear of that unknowing.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Perhaps you should consider this: God either exists or does not exist regardless of whether or not you accept God's existing or not. The point being that you are not in control of whether or not God exists. So why are you stewing over it? Do you think God cares that you know or don't know that God exists? Why?

The only relevant thing about God existing is that we can, if we choose, use the concept of God's existence as a focus for our faith. Our faith in the unknown. Our trust that we exist for a reason and that our suffering in this life is not meaningless. A lot of people need this to keep going. A lot of people find that engaging in this kind of faith improves the quality of their experience of being.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

We are free to imagine "God" in any way that we want to, precisely because we don't know that God exists, or in what manner. That's what makes the mystery of God, useful to us.
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,308
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9/11/2016 3:35:12 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

There is no better a way to understand what God is about then to read the one book that tells you everything you need to know. It is a book written beyond an understanding, until the time is right for one's comprehension. It is a book that can be read through all stages of personal development, and each time each interpretation becomes the truth for the moment. The book in itself is the miracle of validation to its place at the top of the hierarchy of the cosmic library to all things written. The book is the Bible. The Bible tells you exactly how to live in perfect synchronicity with the universe. The power of love is the force of God that holds the world from falling to shambles. Love comes in mysterious ways that aren't always meant to be easy to see. If it were, there weren't be much purpose for living. Life is a lesson, I'd say.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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9/11/2016 7:02:08 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

Well. Whatever you read wasn't the Bible, the Torah, or the Quran, so enlighten us as to what religion you've been studying.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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9/11/2016 7:03:56 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

If you believe Satan exists but God does not, you my friend are? Hopeless. Man up, act like you have testicles, and quit acting like a child.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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9/11/2016 7:20:14 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

I think the only two possible scenarios to consider is that there is no god or there is some kind of non-interventionist deistic god.
Stupidape
Posts: 171
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9/11/2016 9:50:50 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/11/2016 7:03:56 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

If you believe Satan exists but God does not, you my friend are? Hopeless. Man up, act like you have testicles, and quit acting like a child.

Brontoraptor please stop with the ad hominem attacks. This is at least the third time you have done so and it does not help your case.

http://literarydevices.net...
Skeptical1
Posts: 679
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9/11/2016 10:19:14 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
There is no better a way to understand what God is about then to read the one book that tells you everything you need to know.

Besides, most of the other books around don't have numbered paragraphs, and the facts are all complicated.

https://www.youtube.com...

The Bible tells you exactly how to live in perfect synchronicity with the universe. The power of love is the force of God that holds the world from falling to shambles. Love comes in mysterious ways that aren't always meant to be easy to see. If it were, there weren't be much purpose for living. Life is a lesson, I'd say.

Thank you, Deepak Chopra. "The force that holds the world from falling to shambles" - aka gravity.
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,308
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9/11/2016 10:44:19 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/11/2016 10:19:14 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
There is no better a way to understand what God is about then to read the one book that tells you everything you need to know.

Besides, most of the other books around don't have numbered paragraphs, and the facts are all complicated.

https://www.youtube.com...

The Bible tells you exactly how to live in perfect synchronicity with the universe. The power of love is the force of God that holds the world from falling to shambles. Love comes in mysterious ways that aren't always meant to be easy to see. If it were, there weren't be much purpose for living. Life is a lesson, I'd say.

Thank you, Deepak Chopra. "The force that holds the world from falling to shambles" - aka gravity.

That's weak. I wouldn't even go troll the science section with that slop.
Skeptical1
Posts: 679
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9/11/2016 10:47:36 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/11/2016 10:44:19 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 9/11/2016 10:19:14 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
There is no better a way to understand what God is about then to read the one book that tells you everything you need to know.

Besides, most of the other books around don't have numbered paragraphs, and the facts are all complicated.

https://www.youtube.com...

The Bible tells you exactly how to live in perfect synchronicity with the universe. The power of love is the force of God that holds the world from falling to shambles. Love comes in mysterious ways that aren't always meant to be easy to see. If it were, there weren't be much purpose for living. Life is a lesson, I'd say.

Thank you, Deepak Chopra. "The force that holds the world from falling to shambles" - aka gravity.

That's weak. I wouldn't even go troll the science section with that slop.

Then why did you post it?
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,007
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9/12/2016 1:08:49 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

Romans 1:20 ESV / 309 helpful votes

For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
Willows
Posts: 2,056
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9/12/2016 3:06:03 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/12/2016 1:08:49 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

Romans 1:20 ESV / 309 helpful votes

For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse

Well, I'll be dumbfounded! At last the smoking gun which proves once and for all that there is a God. And what luck too, it happens to be the God that most followers in my country follow.

I'm pretty smart though since I did look up your quote and sure enough it is written in the bible, I checked it word for word and it is correct!

Oh, thank you so much for saving me. I'm going straight away to my local skateboard store and get some good strong kneepads.
zaarbuc
Posts: 43
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9/12/2016 7:02:09 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

Considering God's is estimated to have killed some 3 million people in the Bible to Satan's 10 and Satan is often credited with being the one who convinced (wo)man to eat from the tree of knowledge maybe Satan isn't such a bad guy?
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,007
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9/12/2016 9:33:59 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/12/2016 3:06:03 AM, Willows wrote:
At 9/12/2016 1:08:49 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

Romans 1:20 ESV / 309 helpful votes

For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse

Well, I'll be dumbfounded! At last the smoking gun which proves once and for all that there is a God. And what luck too, it happens to be the God that most followers in my country follow.

I'm pretty smart though since I did look up your quote and sure enough it is written in the bible, I checked it word for word and it is correct!

Oh, thank you so much for saving me. I'm going straight away to my local skateboard store and get some good strong kneepads.

You're welcome, but I recommend painting knee pads.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
Willows
Posts: 2,056
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9/12/2016 9:49:11 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/12/2016 9:33:59 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 9/12/2016 3:06:03 AM, Willows wrote:
At 9/12/2016 1:08:49 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

Romans 1:20 ESV / 309 helpful votes

For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse

Well, I'll be dumbfounded! At last the smoking gun which proves once and for all that there is a God. And what luck too, it happens to be the God that most followers in my country follow.

I'm pretty smart though since I did look up your quote and sure enough it is written in the bible, I checked it word for word and it is correct!

Oh, thank you so much for saving me. I'm going straight away to my local skateboard store and get some good strong kneepads.

You're welcome, but I recommend painting knee pads.

My wife would not like the paint rubbing off onto the carpet.
tarantula
Posts: 854
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9/12/2016 10:31:37 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/11/2016 11:22:55 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

the existence of the universe and living beings is the tangible proof of God existence.

No it isn't! There could be all sorts of other explanations, which have nothing to do with any deity. I suspect science will get it all sussed in time.
uncung
Posts: 3,452
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9/12/2016 10:49:32 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/12/2016 10:31:37 AM, tarantula wrote:
At 9/11/2016 11:22:55 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

the existence of the universe and living beings is the tangible proof of God existence.

No it isn't! There could be all sorts of other explanations, which have nothing to do with any deity. I suspect science will get it all sussed in time.

science suppose to not use 'could be'. you imply science unable to explain it so far.
tarantula
Posts: 854
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9/12/2016 1:26:00 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/12/2016 10:49:32 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/12/2016 10:31:37 AM, tarantula wrote:
At 9/11/2016 11:22:55 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

the existence of the universe and living beings is the tangible proof of God existence.

No it isn't! There could be all sorts of other explanations, which have nothing to do with any deity. I suspect science will get it all sussed in time.

science suppose to not use 'could be'. you imply science unable to explain it so far.

Unlike religion, science doesn't state something as a FACT until there is definite evidence to support it.
uncung
Posts: 3,452
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9/12/2016 2:29:20 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/12/2016 1:26:00 PM, tarantula wrote:
At 9/12/2016 10:49:32 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/12/2016 10:31:37 AM, tarantula wrote:
At 9/11/2016 11:22:55 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

the existence of the universe and living beings is the tangible proof of God existence.

No it isn't! There could be all sorts of other explanations, which have nothing to do with any deity. I suspect science will get it all sussed in time.

science suppose to not use 'could be'. you imply science unable to explain it so far.

Unlike religion, science doesn't state something as a FACT until there is definite evidence to support it.

the fact is the things that one may see, hear, fell, and touch. science relies on these matter. religion, however, not just rely on these matter, it also tell us somethings we can not see, hear, fell, and touch at the moment, but they are real, exist.
the problem come up when one asks the evidences that they able to see, hear, fell, and touch.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,622
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9/12/2016 2:31:39 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/12/2016 2:29:20 PM, uncung wrote:
At 9/12/2016 1:26:00 PM, tarantula wrote:
At 9/12/2016 10:49:32 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/12/2016 10:31:37 AM, tarantula wrote:
At 9/11/2016 11:22:55 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

the existence of the universe and living beings is the tangible proof of God existence.

No it isn't! There could be all sorts of other explanations, which have nothing to do with any deity. I suspect science will get it all sussed in time.

science suppose to not use 'could be'. you imply science unable to explain it so far.

Unlike religion, science doesn't state something as a FACT until there is definite evidence to support it.

the fact is the things that one may see, hear, fell, and touch. science relies on these matter. religion, however, not just rely on these matter, it also tell us somethings we can not see, hear, fell, and touch at the moment, but they are real, exist.
the problem come up when one asks the evidences that they able to see, hear, fell, and touch.

The problem is the fact you are confused as to the definitions of "real and exist".
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
uncung
Posts: 3,452
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9/12/2016 2:37:10 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/12/2016 2:31:39 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/12/2016 2:29:20 PM, uncung wrote:
At 9/12/2016 1:26:00 PM, tarantula wrote:
At 9/12/2016 10:49:32 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/12/2016 10:31:37 AM, tarantula wrote:
At 9/11/2016 11:22:55 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

the existence of the universe and living beings is the tangible proof of God existence.

No it isn't! There could be all sorts of other explanations, which have nothing to do with any deity. I suspect science will get it all sussed in time.

science suppose to not use 'could be'. you imply science unable to explain it so far.

Unlike religion, science doesn't state something as a FACT until there is definite evidence to support it.

the fact is the things that one may see, hear, fell, and touch. science relies on these matter. religion, however, not just rely on these matter, it also tell us somethings we can not see, hear, fell, and touch at the moment, but they are real, exist.
the problem come up when one asks the evidences that they able to see, hear, fell, and touch.

The problem is the fact you are confused as to the definitions of "real and exist".

no, I am not. I am still right so far.
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,308
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9/12/2016 3:07:59 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/11/2016 10:47:36 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 9/11/2016 10:44:19 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 9/11/2016 10:19:14 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
There is no better a way to understand what God is about then to read the one book that tells you everything you need to know.

Besides, most of the other books around don't have numbered paragraphs, and the facts are all complicated.

https://www.youtube.com...

The Bible tells you exactly how to live in perfect synchronicity with the universe. The power of love is the force of God that holds the world from falling to shambles. Love comes in mysterious ways that aren't always meant to be easy to see. If it were, there weren't be much purpose for living. Life is a lesson, I'd say.

Thank you, Deepak Chopra. "The force that holds the world from falling to shambles" - aka gravity.

That's weak. I wouldn't even go troll the science section with that slop.

Then why did you post it?

I was referring to your comment about gravity. Of all four forces that make the world go round, gravity is the weakest. Silly wabbit:)
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,007
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9/12/2016 3:15:58 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/12/2016 9:49:11 AM, Willows wrote:
At 9/12/2016 9:33:59 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 9/12/2016 3:06:03 AM, Willows wrote:
At 9/12/2016 1:08:49 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

Romans 1:20 ESV / 309 helpful votes

For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse

Well, I'll be dumbfounded! At last the smoking gun which proves once and for all that there is a God. And what luck too, it happens to be the God that most followers in my country follow.

I'm pretty smart though since I did look up your quote and sure enough it is written in the bible, I checked it word for word and it is correct!

Oh, thank you so much for saving me. I'm going straight away to my local skateboard store and get some good strong kneepads.

You're welcome, but I recommend painting knee pads.

My wife would not like the paint rubbing off onto the carpet.

Oh, ok. Never mind.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
tarantula
Posts: 854
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9/12/2016 4:00:35 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/12/2016 2:29:20 PM, uncung wrote:
At 9/12/2016 1:26:00 PM, tarantula wrote:
At 9/12/2016 10:49:32 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/12/2016 10:31:37 AM, tarantula wrote:
At 9/11/2016 11:22:55 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

the existence of the universe and living beings is the tangible proof of God existence.

No it isn't! There could be all sorts of other explanations, which have nothing to do with any deity. I suspect science will get it all sussed in time.

science suppose to not use 'could be'. you imply science unable to explain it so far.

Unlike religion, science doesn't state something as a FACT until there is definite evidence to support it.

the fact is the things that one may see, hear, fell, and touch. science relies on these matter. religion, however, not just rely on these matter, it also tell us somethings we can not see, hear, fell, and touch at the moment, but they are real, exist.
the problem come up when one asks the evidences that they able to see, hear, fell, and touch.

How do you know something exists if you cannot see, touch or feel it?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,622
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9/12/2016 4:10:32 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/12/2016 2:37:10 PM, uncung wrote:
At 9/12/2016 2:31:39 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/12/2016 2:29:20 PM, uncung wrote:
At 9/12/2016 1:26:00 PM, tarantula wrote:
At 9/12/2016 10:49:32 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/12/2016 10:31:37 AM, tarantula wrote:
At 9/11/2016 11:22:55 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

the existence of the universe and living beings is the tangible proof of God existence.

No it isn't! There could be all sorts of other explanations, which have nothing to do with any deity. I suspect science will get it all sussed in time.

science suppose to not use 'could be'. you imply science unable to explain it so far.

Unlike religion, science doesn't state something as a FACT until there is definite evidence to support it.

the fact is the things that one may see, hear, fell, and touch. science relies on these matter. religion, however, not just rely on these matter, it also tell us somethings we can not see, hear, fell, and touch at the moment, but they are real, exist.
the problem come up when one asks the evidences that they able to see, hear, fell, and touch.

The problem is the fact you are confused as to the definitions of "real and exist".

no, I am not. I am still right so far.

Real: actually existing or happening : not imaginary, not fake, false, or artificial
Exist: to have actual being : to be real

As you can see, both definitions show you to be dead wrong.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
uncung
Posts: 3,452
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9/12/2016 4:47:54 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/12/2016 4:10:32 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/12/2016 2:37:10 PM, uncung wrote:
At 9/12/2016 2:31:39 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/12/2016 2:29:20 PM, uncung wrote:
At 9/12/2016 1:26:00 PM, tarantula wrote:
At 9/12/2016 10:49:32 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/12/2016 10:31:37 AM, tarantula wrote:
At 9/11/2016 11:22:55 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

the existence of the universe and living beings is the tangible proof of God existence.

No it isn't! There could be all sorts of other explanations, which have nothing to do with any deity. I suspect science will get it all sussed in time.

science suppose to not use 'could be'. you imply science unable to explain it so far.

Unlike religion, science doesn't state something as a FACT until there is definite evidence to support it.

the fact is the things that one may see, hear, fell, and touch. science relies on these matter. religion, however, not just rely on these matter, it also tell us somethings we can not see, hear, fell, and touch at the moment, but they are real, exist.
the problem come up when one asks the evidences that they able to see, hear, fell, and touch.

The problem is the fact you are confused as to the definitions of "real and exist".

no, I am not. I am still right so far.

Real: actually existing or happening : not imaginary, not fake, false, or artificial
Exist: to have actual being : to be real

As you can see, both definitions show you to be dead wrong.

tell me why you say I am wrong, in detail, since I am right so far.
uncung
Posts: 3,452
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9/12/2016 4:48:57 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/12/2016 4:00:35 PM, tarantula wrote:
At 9/12/2016 2:29:20 PM, uncung wrote:
At 9/12/2016 1:26:00 PM, tarantula wrote:
At 9/12/2016 10:49:32 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/12/2016 10:31:37 AM, tarantula wrote:
At 9/11/2016 11:22:55 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/11/2016 10:57:41 AM, Stupidape wrote:
For example, are we supposed to have any clue if God exists or not? Do any religions teach that we are supposed to know if God exists or not? From what I've experienced and read, we are never supposed to know if God exists until after we die. We are supposed to just struggle and struggle to know if God exists or not, and if so which God our entire existence.

I keep thinking God doesn't exist then I read some new theist argument and I'm like "okay so that an argument for any God's existence." Right now I'm leaning towards either God doesn't exist or if God exists God is some dark trickster God. I came to this conclusion after reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments.

Yet, is this William Lane Craig's goal? To make us think some malevolent all powerful personal God exists? After reading Craig's arguments my confidence that Jesus exists is unchanged, yet my confidence that Satan is God is much greater. Is that Craig's goal to make atheist into satanic worshipers? I don't get it.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

the existence of the universe and living beings is the tangible proof of God existence.

No it isn't! There could be all sorts of other explanations, which have nothing to do with any deity. I suspect science will get it all sussed in time.

science suppose to not use 'could be'. you imply science unable to explain it so far.

Unlike religion, science doesn't state something as a FACT until there is definite evidence to support it.

the fact is the things that one may see, hear, fell, and touch. science relies on these matter. religion, however, not just rely on these matter, it also tell us somethings we can not see, hear, fell, and touch at the moment, but they are real, exist.
the problem come up when one asks the evidences that they able to see, hear, fell, and touch.

How do you know something exists if you cannot see, touch or feel it?

by logic, belief, valid information, and rationality.
Skeptical1
Posts: 679
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9/12/2016 9:52:17 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/12/2016 3:07:59 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 9/11/2016 10:47:36 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 9/11/2016 10:44:19 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 9/11/2016 10:19:14 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
There is no better a way to understand what God is about then to read the one book that tells you everything you need to know.

Besides, most of the other books around don't have numbered paragraphs, and the facts are all complicated.

https://www.youtube.com...

The Bible tells you exactly how to live in perfect synchronicity with the universe. The power of love is the force of God that holds the world from falling to shambles. Love comes in mysterious ways that aren't always meant to be easy to see. If it were, there weren't be much purpose for living. Life is a lesson, I'd say.

Thank you, Deepak Chopra. "The force that holds the world from falling to shambles" - aka gravity.

That's weak. I wouldn't even go troll the science section with that slop.

Then why did you post it?

I was referring to your comment about gravity. Of all four forces that make the world go round, gravity is the weakest. Silly wabbit:)

Indeed the weakest force, and yet it holds everything together. Without it, we'd have no air to breathe, no water to drink, in fact we wouldn't even be here, we'd be off floating somewhere in the asteroid belt. Maybe we should call it the God force?

Fundamental reality encompasses sub empirical acceptance. Transcendence reflects an expression of chaos, but true identity is located inside unparalleled belonging.