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Bible proof Yawheh is not omnipotent

Chloe8
Posts: 2,583
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9/13/2016 7:45:14 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
In Judges 1: 17-19, we read:

Then the men of Judah went with the Simeonites their fellow Israelites and attacked the Canaanites living in Zephath, and they totally destroyed the city. Therefore it was called Hormah. Judah also took Gaza, Ashkelon and Ekron"each city with its territory.

The Lord was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron.

Despite having Yawheh on their side the men of Judah were unable to drive their enemies away because they had weaponry that was too advanced for even Yawheh to fight against.

Yawheh was incapable of driving a few bronze age tribesmen from a plain. Biblical proof his powers have limits, contradicting other bible verses that make false claims about his omnipotence.
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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9/13/2016 8:12:22 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/13/2016 7:45:14 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
...
Yawheh was incapable of driving a few bronze age tribesmen from a plain. Biblical proof his powers have limits, contradicting other bible verses that make false claims about his omnipotence.

If you would be honest, the scripture says the people were not able to do the thing, it doesn"t say Yawheh was not able to do it.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,583
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9/13/2016 8:20:04 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/13/2016 8:12:22 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/13/2016 7:45:14 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
...
Yawheh was incapable of driving a few bronze age tribesmen from a plain. Biblical proof his powers have limits, contradicting other bible verses that make false claims about his omnipotence.

If you would be honest, the scripture says the people were not able to do the thing, it doesn"t say Yawheh was not able to do it.

Your being dishonest by trying to delete the verse. Unfortunately it's in your holy book. You can't hide it from me.

LOOK====The Lord was with the men of Judah.====READ!

They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron.

Despite combining forces with a god the men of Judah failed to drive away a few primitive bronze age tribesmen with some iron chariots.

This cannot be reasonably disputed unless you admit the bible contains factually wrong information.
Genius_Intellect
Posts: 339
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9/13/2016 10:42:10 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/13/2016 8:20:04 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
This cannot be reasonably disputed unless you admit the bible contains factually wrong information.

That's not even debatable. The Bible contains lots of false and/or misleading information.

I think it's important to remember though that the Bible never describes God as "omnipotent". It merely says he's all-powerful and beyond our understanding, which is not always the same thing. The Bible is a religious text, not a philosophical one, so it never intended to use rigid definitions. God's "omnipotence" came later, when theologians upgraded his weaponry.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,583
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9/13/2016 10:49:16 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/13/2016 10:42:10 PM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
At 9/13/2016 8:20:04 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
This cannot be reasonably disputed unless you admit the bible contains factually wrong information.

That's not even debatable. The Bible contains lots of false and/or misleading information.

Of course the bible contains lots of false and misleading information. This thread though is aimed at Christians who claim there is no false information in the bible.

I think it's important to remember though that the Bible never describes God as "omnipotent". It merely says he's all-powerful and beyond our understanding, which is not always the same thing. The Bible is a religious text, not a philosophical one, so it never intended to use rigid definitions. God's "omnipotence" came later, when theologians upgraded his weaponry.

Obviously if something is all powerful it is omnipotent. It's just another word for it. Obviously a god incapable of helping some ancient Israelites fight some bronze age tribesmen is not all powerful.
Genius_Intellect
Posts: 339
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9/13/2016 11:14:11 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/13/2016 10:49:16 PM, Chloe8 wrote:

Obviously if something is all powerful it is omnipotent. It's just another word for it. Obviously a god incapable of helping some ancient Israelites fight some bronze age tribesmen is not all powerful.

Not true. "All-powerful" is a figurative term, while "omnipotent" is a very precise one.

Suppose the world was conquered by a dark lord with superhuman powers and huge resources. This dark lord can level cities with a gesture, raise up crops with a command, hear the thoughts of everybody in the world, and teleport to anywhere on the planet. In addition, he controls a mighty army that can put down rebellion in an instant.

It would be fair to call this dark lord "all-powerful", because he has power over all of us. That doesn't mean he's omnipotent in the philosophical sense. He can't switch off the Sun. He can't make 1 + 1 = 3. He's not immune to making mistakes.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,583
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9/13/2016 11:20:31 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/13/2016 11:14:11 PM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
At 9/13/2016 10:49:16 PM, Chloe8 wrote:

Obviously if something is all powerful it is omnipotent. It's just another word for it. Obviously a god incapable of helping some ancient Israelites fight some bronze age tribesmen is not all powerful.

Not true. "All-powerful" is a figurative term, while "omnipotent" is a very precise one.

All powerful means having complete power. If Yawheh can't defeat a bronze age tribesman his power is limited so he does not have complete power and is not all powerful.

Suppose the world was conquered by a dark lord with superhuman powers and huge resources. This dark lord can level cities with a gesture, raise up crops with a command, hear the thoughts of everybody in the world, and teleport to anywhere on the planet. In addition, he controls a mighty army that can put down rebellion in an instant.

It would be fair to call this dark lord "all-powerful", because he has power over all of us. That doesn't mean he's omnipotent in the philosophical sense. He can't switch off the Sun. He can't make 1 + 1 = 3. He's not immune to making mistakes.

Not really. His power has limitations so he is not all-powerful.
Genius_Intellect
Posts: 339
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9/13/2016 11:50:23 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/13/2016 11:20:31 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/13/2016 11:14:11 PM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
At 9/13/2016 10:49:16 PM, Chloe8 wrote:

Obviously if something is all powerful it is omnipotent. It's just another word for it. Obviously a god incapable of helping some ancient Israelites fight some bronze age tribesmen is not all powerful.

Not true. "All-powerful" is a figurative term, while "omnipotent" is a very precise one.

All powerful means having complete power. If Yawheh can't defeat a bronze age tribesman his power is limited so he does not have complete power and is not all powerful.

Suppose the world was conquered by a dark lord with superhuman powers and huge resources. This dark lord can level cities with a gesture, raise up crops with a command, hear the thoughts of everybody in the world, and teleport to anywhere on the planet. In addition, he controls a mighty army that can put down rebellion in an instant.

It would be fair to call this dark lord "all-powerful", because he has power over all of us. That doesn't mean he's omnipotent in the philosophical sense. He can't switch off the Sun. He can't make 1 + 1 = 3. He's not immune to making mistakes.

Not really. His power has limitations so he is not all-powerful.

You are taking the phrase literally and thus missing the point, just like all the fundamentalists. "All-powerful" is not a literal description, it's a poetic one. It doesn't mean power over all existence, just power over all the things that matter in the context. An abusive parent is "all-powerful" in their child's world; then that parent goes to work, where their vindictive boss is "all-powerful"; that boss then goes to the board meeting, where the stubborn chairman is "all-powerful"; that chairman goes to visit his wife in hospital, where cancer is "all-powerful"; then the dark lord, in his mercy, cures the wife's cancer, making him "all-powerful"; the dark lord conquered the entire planet because of his childhood trauma, which makes the memory of his abusive father "all-powerful" and brings us full circle. In each case, whether a person is all-powerful depends entirely on context. Omnipotence is merely a hypothetical ability to be all-powerful regardless of context; it's a completely useless idea, since life doesn't work like that, and only has application if you're a theologian trying to justify your own monotheistic beliefs.
rnjs
Posts: 378
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9/14/2016 12:44:32 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/13/2016 7:45:14 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Judges 1: 17-19, we read:

Then the men of Judah went with the Simeonites their fellow Israelites and attacked the Canaanites living in Zephath, and they totally destroyed the city. Therefore it was called Hormah. Judah also took Gaza, Ashkelon and Ekron"each city with its territory.

The Lord was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron.

Despite having Yawheh on their side the men of Judah were unable to drive their enemies away because they had weaponry that was too advanced for even Yawheh to fight against.

Yawheh was incapable of driving a few bronze age tribesmen from a plain. Biblical proof his powers have limits, contradicting other bible verses that make false claims about his omnipotence.

The results were probably in line with Gods will. Just because He is with me I won't necessarily always like how He handles every situation.
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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9/14/2016 6:47:44 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 12:44:32 AM, rnjs wrote:
At 9/13/2016 7:45:14 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Judges 1: 17-19, we read:

Then the men of Judah went with the Simeonites their fellow Israelites and attacked the Canaanites living in Zephath, and they totally destroyed the city. Therefore it was called Hormah. Judah also took Gaza, Ashkelon and Ekron"each city with its territory.

The Lord was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron.

Despite having Yawheh on their side the men of Judah were unable to drive their enemies away because they had weaponry that was too advanced for even Yawheh to fight against.

Yawheh was incapable of driving a few bronze age tribesmen from a plain. Biblical proof his powers have limits, contradicting other bible verses that make false claims about his omnipotence.

The results were probably in line with Gods will. Just because He is with me I won't necessarily always like how He handles every situation.
Bwuahahahahaha.
Cop out central.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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9/14/2016 9:11:27 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/13/2016 8:20:04 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/13/2016 8:12:22 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/13/2016 7:45:14 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
...
Yawheh was incapable of driving a few bronze age tribesmen from a plain. Biblical proof his powers have limits, contradicting other bible verses that make false claims about his omnipotence.

If you would be honest, the scripture says the people were not able to do the thing, it doesn"t say Yawheh was not able to do it.

Your being dishonest by trying to delete the verse. Unfortunately it's in your holy book. You can't hide it from me.

It doesn"t say God failed. It says people failed. But it is true that God was with them.