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Who is the Whore of Babylon in Revelations?

Harikrish
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9/23/2016 5:17:47 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
Who is the Whore of Babylon in Revelations?

To most readers a whore would be associated with a woman. But the Bible must be viewed without gender biases and applied equally to both male and female. Having done so we now proceed to identify who is the Whore of Babylon spoken by John in Revelations 17.

In Revelation 17 Babylon is guilty of committing "FORNICATION" and is a "WHORE". In the Bible, fornication is the act of committing adultery against God by mixing with other Pagan nations and practices (traditions) and going after other Gods. Or a spouse that committeth ADULTERY, which taketh strangers instead of their spouse .'
When God is talking about people committing adultery and being a whore in a prophetic, spiritual sense, like He is in Revelation. He is talking about someone committing adultery AGAINST HIM. And the only person who can be guilty of committing fornication (adultery) against God points to Jesus.

In Revelation 18 we read about the judgment of the Whore of Babylon. And in verse 23 it says ... "the light of the candle shall shine no more at all in thee, and the voice of the Bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more in thee." ... This is the dulling of the senses which makes Christians spiritually dead. Now, think about this. Whether we take this symbolically or literally, there is only one kind of marriage this could be talking about. If we take this symbolically, then the bride and Bridegroom is a Biblical reference to Jesus Christ and the people of Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-33; Isaiah 62:5; 2 Corinthians 11:2). Also, if we take this literally, then who do we see Jesus speak to ? The Jews. So Babylon has to be a professed people the Jews, the first bride of Jesus.

The second bride of Jesus in mentioned in Revelations.
Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25"27). Just as there was a betrothal period in biblical times during which the bride and groom were separated until the wedding, so is the bride of Christ separate from her Bridegroom during the church age. Her responsibility during the betrothal period is to be faithful to Him (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:24). At the second coming of Christ, the church will be united with the Bridegroom and the official "wedding ceremony" will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19:7"9; 21:1-2).

Jesus is therefore both the FORNICATOR AND THE WHORE IN REVELATIONS.

What are the identifying marks of the whore of Babylon?

IDENTITY 1 - Revelation 17:1 ...'I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters.'
Jesus is solicited by many nations.

IDENTITY 2 - Revelation 17:2 ...'the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.'
Jesus was often drunk on wine which he made from water.

IDENTITY 3 - Revelation 17:4 ...'And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication.'
Jesus mentioned the same cup in.
Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

IDENTITY 4 - Revelation 17:5 ...'And upon his/her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH
Jesus wore a crown of thorns that left a permanent mark on his forehead.

IDENTITY 5 - Revelation 17:6 ...'And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.'

The Church continue the tradition of communion a Christian sacrament in which consecrated bread and wine are consumed as memorials of Christ's death or as symbols for the realization of a spiritual union between Christ and communicant or as the body and blood of Christ.

IDENTITY 6 - Revelation 17:18 ...'And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.'
That is pointing to the Church and The Vatican City.

IDENTITY 7 - Revelation 17:6 ...'and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.'
Millions flock to the Vatican City to hear Jesus's message.

All this points to Jesus as the Whore of Babylon and his infidelity to the Jewish people to whom he was sent : Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." while he fornicates with the church his future bride. The church is complicit in his FORNICATION AND ADULTERY AND CONTINUES WITH ITS ILLICIT AFFAIR WITH THE MALE WHORE OF BABYLON.....JESUS!!

I am a Vedantist raised in the Vedantic tradition a Hindu by birth. I was trained in the reading of esoteric scriptures, Christian Theology and Islamic fundamentalism. I am a student of philosophy and the behavioural sciences, a spiritual healer and currently employed in the Information Technology field developing AI programs.
As you can see I have very diverse interests and on DDO alone I am a Christian championed and a champion of Muslims. I am the most spiritual member on DDO and welcome all to embrace the abundance of my Aura.

All links can be referenced.

Most Spiritual discusses Spirituality
http://www.debate.org...

Why Muslims need a champion here.
http://www.debate.org...

Harikrish for Christian Champion
http://www.debate.org...

A namaste to all, peace be upon you all.
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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9/23/2016 9:09:44 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
The Whore of Babylon is Rome and the Beast is Nero. This has been known in historical studies for years.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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9/23/2016 10:45:41 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/23/2016 9:09:44 PM, SNP1 wrote:
The Whore of Babylon is Rome and the Beast is Nero. This has been known in historical studies for years.

Why would Revelatiins care about Rome or Nero if they were not the future or the cause of global conflict?
The Whore of Babylon (Jesus) has done more damage than both Rome or Nero.

American Psychological Association To Classify Belief in God As a Mental Illness.
http://www.thenewsnerd.com...

Dr. Lillian Andrews, professor of psychology, stated, "Every year thousands of people die after refusing life-saving treatment on religious grounds. Even when being told "you will die without this treatment" patients reject the idea and believe that their God will still save them. Those lives could be saved simply by classifying those people as mentally unfit for decision making."
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,865
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9/23/2016 11:24:22 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/23/2016 10:45:41 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/23/2016 9:09:44 PM, SNP1 wrote:
The Whore of Babylon is Rome and the Beast is Nero. This has been known in historical studies for years.

Why would Revelatiins care about Rome or Nero if they were not the future or the cause of global conflict?
The Whore of Babylon (Jesus) has done more damage than both Rome or Nero.
Confusing cause and effect fallacy, you're sinking.
American Psychological Association To Classify Belief in God As a Mental Illness.
http://www.thenewsnerd.com...

Dr. Lillian Andrews, professor of psychology, stated, "Every year thousands of people die after refusing life-saving treatment on religious grounds. Even when being told "you will die without this treatment" patients reject the idea and believe that their God will still save them. Those lives could be saved simply by classifying those people as mentally unfit for decision making."
Nice straw man, "the quote" you placed in this argument, and you managed a biased sample fallacy too. Wow, you're sinking faster.
Not all those people claim that they believe that God will cure or keep them alive. They state that they will stay alive if it is Gods will for them not to die, or so say the ones I've read stories on.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,865
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9/23/2016 11:32:24 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/23/2016 5:17:47 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Who is the Whore of Babylon in Revelations?

To most readers a whore would be associated with a woman. But the Bible must be viewed without gender biases and applied equally to both male and female. Having done so we now proceed to identify who is the Whore of Babylon spoken by John in Revelations 17.

In Revelation 17 Babylon is guilty of committing "FORNICATION" and is a "WHORE". In the Bible, fornication is the act of committing adultery against God by mixing with other Pagan nations and practices (traditions) and going after other Gods. Or a spouse that committeth ADULTERY, which taketh strangers instead of their spouse .'
When God is talking about people committing adultery and being a whore in a prophetic, spiritual sense, like He is in Revelation. He is talking about someone committing adultery AGAINST HIM. And the only person who can be guilty of committing fornication (adultery) against God points to Jesus.

In Revelation 18 we read about the judgment of the Whore of Babylon. And in verse 23 it says ... "the light of the candle shall shine no more at all in thee, and the voice of the Bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more in thee." ... This is the dulling of the senses which makes Christians spiritually dead. Now, think about this. Whether we take this symbolically or literally, there is only one kind of marriage this could be talking about. If we take this symbolically, then the bride and Bridegroom is a Biblical reference to Jesus Christ and the people of Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-33; Isaiah 62:5; 2 Corinthians 11:2). Also, if we take this literally, then who do we see Jesus speak to ? The Jews. So Babylon has to be a professed people the Jews, the first bride of Jesus.

The second bride of Jesus in mentioned in Revelations.
Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25"27). Just as there was a betrothal period in biblical times during which the bride and groom were separated until the wedding, so is the bride of Christ separate from her Bridegroom during the church age. Her responsibility during the betrothal period is to be faithful to Him (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:24). At the second coming of Christ, the church will be united with the Bridegroom and the official "wedding ceremony" will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19:7"9; 21:1-2).

Jesus is therefore both the FORNICATOR AND THE WHORE IN REVELATIONS.

What are the identifying marks of the whore of Babylon?

IDENTITY 1 - Revelation 17:1 ...'I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters.'
Jesus is solicited by many nations.

IDENTITY 2 - Revelation 17:2 ...'the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.'
Jesus was often drunk on wine which he made from water.
This is completely false.
IDENTITY 3 - Revelation 17:4 ...'And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication.'
Jesus mentioned the same cup in.
Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."
And there can't be two cups why!
IDENTITY 4 - Revelation 17:5 ...'And upon his/her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH
Jesus wore a crown of thorns that left a permanent mark on his forehead.
Yeah, and that equates to something being written?
IDENTITY 5 - Revelation 17:6 ...'And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.'

The Church continue the tradition of communion a Christian sacrament in which consecrated bread and wine are consumed as memorials of Christ's death or as symbols for the realization of a spiritual union between Christ and communicant or as the body and blood of Christ.

IDENTITY 6 - Revelation 17:18 ...'And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.'
That is pointing to the Church and The Vatican City.
Completely wrong, Vatican doesnt rein over the kings of the Earth.
IDENTITYITY 7 - Revelation 17:6 ...'and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.'
Millions flock to the Vatican City to hear Jesus's message.
Non sequitur
All this points to Jesus as the Whore of Babylon and his infidelity to the Jewish people to whom he was sent : Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." while he fornicates with the church his future bride. The church is complicit in his FORNICATION AND ADULTERY AND CONTINUES WITH ITS ILLICIT AFFAIR WITH THE MALE WHORE OF BABYLON.....JESUS!!
Jesus wasn't sent here for the Jews. You simply are a fanatical idiot.
I am a Vedantist raised in the Vedantic tradition a Hindu by birth. I was trained in the reading of esoteric scriptures, Christian Theology and Islamic fundamentalism. I am a student of philosophy and the behavioural sciences, a spiritual healer and currently employed in the Information Technology field developing AI programs.
Hindus are all whores. See how generalizations work.
As you can see I have very diverse interests and on DDO alone I am a Christian championed and a champion of Muslims. I am the most spiritual member on DDO and welcome all to embrace the abundance of my Aura.
But you're kinda weird.
All links can be referenced.

Most Spiritual discusses Spirituality
http://www.debate.org...

Why Muslims need a champion here.
http://www.debate.org...

Harikrish for Christian Champion
http://www.debate.org...

A namaste to all, peace be upon you all.
What is peace? And prove peace is a good thing for all people.....ty
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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9/24/2016 12:22:49 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/23/2016 10:45:41 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/23/2016 9:09:44 PM, SNP1 wrote:
The Whore of Babylon is Rome and the Beast is Nero. This has been known in historical studies for years.

Why would Revelatiins care about Rome or Nero if they were not the future or the cause of global conflict?

There was a fear that Nero would return from the dead and torment the people again.

One major piece of evidence that Nero is the beast is the number of the beast.
We see two different numbers of the beast in different early manuscripts, 666 and 616.

Both of them are numerical ways of writing Nero's name (Nero had two different ways of spelling his name).

Furthermore, Babylon had been used many times to overtly refer to Rome.

The Whore of Babylon (Jesus) has done more damage than both Rome or Nero.

American Psychological Association To Classify Belief in God As a Mental Illness.
http://www.thenewsnerd.com...

Dr. Lillian Andrews, professor of psychology, stated, "Every year thousands of people die after refusing life-saving treatment on religious grounds. Even when being told "you will die without this treatment" patients reject the idea and believe that their God will still save them. Those lives could be saved simply by classifying those people as mentally unfit for decision making."
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,865
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9/24/2016 1:49:04 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 12:22:49 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 9/23/2016 10:45:41 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/23/2016 9:09:44 PM, SNP1 wrote:
The Whore of Babylon is Rome and the Beast is Nero. This has been known in historical studies for years.

Why would Revelatiins care about Rome or Nero if they were not the future or the cause of global conflict?

There was a fear that Nero would return from the dead and torment the people again.

One major piece of evidence that Nero is the beast is the number of the beast.
We see two different numbers of the beast in different early manuscripts, 666 and 616.

Both of them are numerical ways of writing Nero's name (Nero had two different ways of spelling his name).

Furthermore, Babylon had been used many times to overtly refer to Rome.
You didn't address the issue SNP. There's no logical reason to think revelations has anything to do with the historical accounts that were happening at the time. It's inconsistent within the Bible to all of a sudden use "code" to describe or hide current events. People who claim they know it's not about the future have no logical grounds that are consistent with the Bible. Information technologists have examined every aspect of the Bible and dissected it down to its core. Revelations has to be a foretelling of the future, period.
The Whore of Babylon (Jesus) has done more damage than both Rome or Nero.

American Psychological Association To Classify Belief in God As a Mental Illness.
http://www.thenewsnerd.com...

Dr. Lillian Andrews, professor of psychology, stated, "Every year thousands of people die after refusing life-saving treatment on religious grounds. Even when being told "you will die without this treatment" patients reject the idea and believe that their God will still save them. Those lives could be saved simply by classifying those people as mentally unfit for decision making."
PGA
Posts: 4,045
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9/24/2016 6:15:13 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 12:22:49 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 9/23/2016 10:45:41 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/23/2016 9:09:44 PM, SNP1 wrote:
The Whore of Babylon is Rome and the Beast is Nero. This has been known in historical studies for years.

Why would Revelatiins care about Rome or Nero if they were not the future or the cause of global conflict?

There was a fear that Nero would return from the dead and torment the people again.

One major piece of evidence that Nero is the beast is the number of the beast.
We see two different numbers of the beast in different early manuscripts, 666 and 616.

Both of them are numerical ways of writing Nero's name (Nero had two different ways of spelling his name).

Furthermore, Babylon had been used many times to overtly refer to Rome.

You got Nero right but Babylon refers to Jerusalem.

Peter
PGA
Posts: 4,045
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9/24/2016 6:17:14 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/23/2016 5:17:47 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Who is the Whore of Babylon in Revelations?

To most readers a whore would be associated with a woman. But the Bible must be viewed without gender biases and applied equally to both male and female. Having done so we now proceed to identify who is the Whore of Babylon spoken by John in Revelations 17.

In Revelation 17 Babylon is guilty of committing "FORNICATION" and is a "WHORE". In the Bible, fornication is the act of committing adultery against God by mixing with other Pagan nations and practices (traditions) and going after other Gods. Or a spouse that committeth ADULTERY, which taketh strangers instead of their spouse .'
When God is talking about people committing adultery and being a whore in a prophetic, spiritual sense, like He is in Revelation. He is talking about someone committing adultery AGAINST HIM. And the only person who can be guilty of committing fornication (adultery) against God points to Jesus.

In Revelation 18 we read about the judgment of the Whore of Babylon. And in verse 23 it says ... "the light of the candle shall shine no more at all in thee, and the voice of the Bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more in thee." ... This is the dulling of the senses which makes Christians spiritually dead. Now, think about this. Whether we take this symbolically or literally, there is only one kind of marriage this could be talking about. If we take this symbolically, then the bride and Bridegroom is a Biblical reference to Jesus Christ and the people of Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-33; Isaiah 62:5; 2 Corinthians 11:2). Also, if we take this literally, then who do we see Jesus speak to ? The Jews. So Babylon has to be a professed people the Jews, the first bride of Jesus.

The second bride of Jesus in mentioned in Revelations.
Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25"27). Just as there was a betrothal period in biblical times during which the bride and groom were separated until the wedding, so is the bride of Christ separate from her Bridegroom during the church age. Her responsibility during the betrothal period is to be faithful to Him (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:24). At the second coming of Christ, the church will be united with the Bridegroom and the official "wedding ceremony" will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19:7"9; 21:1-2).

Jesus is therefore both the FORNICATOR AND THE WHORE IN REVELATIONS.

What are the identifying marks of the whore of Babylon?

IDENTITY 1 - Revelation 17:1 ...'I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters.'
Jesus is solicited by many nations.

IDENTITY 2 - Revelation 17:2 ...'the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.'
Jesus was often drunk on wine which he made from water.

IDENTITY 3 - Revelation 17:4 ...'And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication.'
Jesus mentioned the same cup in.
Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

IDENTITY 4 - Revelation 17:5 ...'And upon his/her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH
Jesus wore a crown of thorns that left a permanent mark on his forehead.

IDENTITY 5 - Revelation 17:6 ...'And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.'

The Church continue the tradition of communion a Christian sacrament in which consecrated bread and wine are consumed as memorials of Christ's death or as symbols for the realization of a spiritual union between Christ and communicant or as the body and blood of Christ.

IDENTITY 6 - Revelation 17:18 ...'And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.'
That is pointing to the Church and The Vatican City.

IDENTITY 7 - Revelation 17:6 ...'and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.'
Millions flock to the Vatican City to hear Jesus's message.

All this points to Jesus as the Whore of Babylon and his infidelity to the Jewish people to whom he was sent : Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." while he fornicates with the church his future bride. The church is complicit in his FORNICATION AND ADULTERY AND CONTINUES WITH ITS ILLICIT AFFAIR WITH THE MALE WHORE OF BABYLON.....JESUS!!

I am a Vedantist raised in the Vedantic tradition a Hindu by birth. I was trained in the reading of esoteric scriptures, Christian Theology and Islamic fundamentalism. I am a student of philosophy and the behavioural sciences, a spiritual healer and currently employed in the Information Technology field developing AI programs.
As you can see I have very diverse interests and on DDO alone I am a Christian championed and a champion of Muslims. I am the most spiritual member on DDO and welcome all to embrace the abundance of my Aura.

All links can be referenced.

Most Spiritual discusses Spirituality
http://www.debate.org...

Why Muslims need a champion here.
http://www.debate.org...

Harikrish for Christian Champion
http://www.debate.org...

A namaste to all, peace be upon you all.

This is nonsense once again.

Peter
SNP1
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9/24/2016 3:39:51 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 6:15:13 AM, PGA wrote:
At 9/24/2016 12:22:49 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 9/23/2016 10:45:41 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/23/2016 9:09:44 PM, SNP1 wrote:
The Whore of Babylon is Rome and the Beast is Nero. This has been known in historical studies for years.

Why would Revelatiins care about Rome or Nero if they were not the future or the cause of global conflict?

There was a fear that Nero would return from the dead and torment the people again.

One major piece of evidence that Nero is the beast is the number of the beast.
We see two different numbers of the beast in different early manuscripts, 666 and 616.

Both of them are numerical ways of writing Nero's name (Nero had two different ways of spelling his name).

Furthermore, Babylon had been used many times to overtly refer to Rome.

You got Nero right but Babylon refers to Jerusalem.

This just doesn't work historically.
When Revelation was written, Jerusalem was already destroyed.
1 Peter uses Babylon as a way of overtly referring to Rome, so that is not a new concept.
The "seven kings" all mirror perfectly with Roman Emperors.
It even says that the whore will ride a beast with 7 heads and those 7 heads represent 7 hills, which perfectly represents Rome.

While Jerusalem is a common theological interpretation, historically it best fits with Rome, and so most scholars that do comment on this topic do say it is Rome.

Peter
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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9/24/2016 3:44:46 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 3:39:51 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 9/24/2016 6:15:13 AM, PGA wrote:
At 9/24/2016 12:22:49 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 9/23/2016 10:45:41 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/23/2016 9:09:44 PM, SNP1 wrote:
The Whore of Babylon is Rome and the Beast is Nero. This has been known in historical studies for years.

Why would Revelatiins care about Rome or Nero if they were not the future or the cause of global conflict?

There was a fear that Nero would return from the dead and torment the people again.

One major piece of evidence that Nero is the beast is the number of the beast.
We see two different numbers of the beast in different early manuscripts, 666 and 616.

Both of them are numerical ways of writing Nero's name (Nero had two different ways of spelling his name).

Furthermore, Babylon had been used many times to overtly refer to Rome.

You got Nero right but Babylon refers to Jerusalem.

This just doesn't work historically.
When Revelation was written, Jerusalem was already destroyed.

Revelation was more likely penned several years prior to the destruction of Jerusalem. "Historically", there is absolutely zero support for a late date, save an ambiguous statement handed down by Iranaeus.

1 Peter uses Babylon as a way of overtly referring to Rome, so that is not a new concept.

I don't recall Peter doing this.

The "seven kings" all mirror perfectly with Roman Emperors.

Certainly they do, beginning with Julius.

It even says that the whore will ride a beast with 7 heads and those 7 heads represent 7 hills, which perfectly represents Rome.

The Beast is Rome. The whore is Jerusalem.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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9/24/2016 4:19:45 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 3:44:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/24/2016 3:39:51 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 9/24/2016 6:15:13 AM, PGA wrote:
At 9/24/2016 12:22:49 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 9/23/2016 10:45:41 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/23/2016 9:09:44 PM, SNP1 wrote:
The Whore of Babylon is Rome and the Beast is Nero. This has been known in historical studies for years.

Why would Revelatiins care about Rome or Nero if they were not the future or the cause of global conflict?

There was a fear that Nero would return from the dead and torment the people again.

One major piece of evidence that Nero is the beast is the number of the beast.
We see two different numbers of the beast in different early manuscripts, 666 and 616.

Both of them are numerical ways of writing Nero's name (Nero had two different ways of spelling his name).

Furthermore, Babylon had been used many times to overtly refer to Rome.

You got Nero right but Babylon refers to Jerusalem.

This just doesn't work historically.
When Revelation was written, Jerusalem was already destroyed.

Revelation was more likely penned several years prior to the destruction of Jerusalem. "Historically", there is absolutely zero support for a late date, save an ambiguous statement handed down by Iranaeus.

Personally, I would say that Revelation had multiple authors and the first stata was written just a few years after Jerusalem was destroyed, with parts being added to it all the way into the 2nd century (similar to the view of Burkett, where the earliest version was written during the time of Vespasian and updated under Domitian).

The statement by Irenaeus and possibly other lost works is what made the Church Tradition place it during the time of Domitian, and there isn't really anything that contradicts that as a possibility.

Furthermore, Revelation does fit nicely with metaphorical writings based off of esoteric interpretations of the "heavens"/stars.

Revelation 6 does match pretty well with the Eclipse of 59CE
We can see this by looking at the different allegories in this chapter.
Seal 1: The white horsemen with the bow
Seal 2: The red horsemen with the sword
Seal 3: The black horsemen with the scales
Seal 4: The pale horsemen and hades
Seal 5: Altar
Seal 6: Sun (turning black) and Moon (turning red)

The Bow is Sagittarius
The Sword is Perseus
The Scales is Libra
Hades is Hyades Cluster
The Altar is Ara (which rarely shows up in the northern hemisphere)
Sun turning black is a Solar Eclipse.
April 30th of 59 CE there was a Solar Eclipse visible in the regions where this book could possibly be written (Pliny the Elder even attests that this happened).

Thanks to the technology we have today, we can even see what stars were in the sky at the time, and where the planets were.

At about 4 AM all these constellations are present, including the rare Ara.
During the Eclipse itself (around 4:30 PM) we can see what would be visible in the sky and what we see is amazing:
The visible planets are (in order) Jupiter, Saturn, Mars, location where the Sun is eclipsed, Mars, and Venus.

Each of these planets was known to ancient astronomers, and all of them fit with the horsemen allegory.
Mars would be the fiery red horse (as it does appear red in the sky)
Jupiter would be the white horse as it not only appears white, but it also was out further than the others and the white horsemen was said to have been riding out (though, Saturn could take this place as well).
Venus fits with the pale horsemen as it would be yellowish, but barely visible.
Mercury, being as close to the Solar Eclipse as it was, could easily appear more black and fit the black horsemen.
The Hyades Cluster (Hades) even appears during the eclipse.
Also, if you stare at the sun during a solar eclipse it will effect your eyes so that the moon might appear red, perfectly matching Revelation 6.

Now, if this was all there was, then placing Revelation before 70 CE would work perfectly (as Revelation 6 perfectly matches up with the Eclipse of 59 CE), but that isn't all there is.

Revelation 8, similarly to Revelation 6, works perfectly with a Solar Eclipse as well, this time the Eclipse of 71 CE, which would put this after the destruction of Jerusalem.

I can go into this more if you want, but I have to go for now.

1 Peter uses Babylon as a way of overtly referring to Rome, so that is not a new concept.

I don't recall Peter doing this.

1 Peter 5:13

The "seven kings" all mirror perfectly with Roman Emperors.

Certainly they do, beginning with Julius.

It even says that the whore will ride a beast with 7 heads and those 7 heads represent 7 hills, which perfectly represents Rome.

The Beast is Rome. The whore is Jerusalem.

Except that the Beast best fits with Nero, not Rome.
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annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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9/24/2016 5:08:43 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 4:19:45 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 9/24/2016 3:44:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/24/2016 3:39:51 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 9/24/2016 6:15:13 AM, PGA wrote:
At 9/24/2016 12:22:49 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 9/23/2016 10:45:41 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/23/2016 9:09:44 PM, SNP1 wrote:
The Whore of Babylon is Rome and the Beast is Nero. This has been known in historical studies for years.

Why would Revelatiins care about Rome or Nero if they were not the future or the cause of global conflict?

There was a fear that Nero would return from the dead and torment the people again.

One major piece of evidence that Nero is the beast is the number of the beast.
We see two different numbers of the beast in different early manuscripts, 666 and 616.

Both of them are numerical ways of writing Nero's name (Nero had two different ways of spelling his name).

Furthermore, Babylon had been used many times to overtly refer to Rome.

You got Nero right but Babylon refers to Jerusalem.

This just doesn't work historically.
When Revelation was written, Jerusalem was already destroyed.

Revelation was more likely penned several years prior to the destruction of Jerusalem. "Historically", there is absolutely zero support for a late date, save an ambiguous statement handed down by Iranaeus.

Personally, I would say that Revelation had multiple authors and the first stata was written just a few years after Jerusalem was destroyed, with parts being added to it all the way into the 2nd century (similar to the view of Burkett, where the earliest version was written during the time of Vespasian and updated under Domitian).

Well, regardless of your personal opinion, you cannot assert it as fact. You said, "When Revelation was written, Jerusalem was already destroyed." I see no purpose in writing a book predicting the destruction of Jerusalem after the fact, unless the intent was to deceive.

The statement by Irenaeus and possibly other lost works is what made the Church Tradition place it during the time of Domitian, and there isn't really anything that contradicts that as a possibility.

... and nothing which affirms it as a probability. It's simply an ambiguous statement which confirms nothing as far as dating the book goes. Yet .... those who affirm the later dates run right to it, slap their preferred rendering on it, and they're off to the races.

Furthermore, Revelation does fit nicely with metaphorical writings based off of esoteric interpretations of the "heavens"/stars.

Revelation 6 does match pretty well with the Eclipse of 59CE
We can see this by looking at the different allegories in this chapter.
Seal 1: The white horsemen with the bow
Seal 2: The red horsemen with the sword
Seal 3: The black horsemen with the scales
Seal 4: The pale horsemen and hades
Seal 5: Altar
Seal 6: Sun (turning black) and Moon (turning red)

The Bow is Sagittarius
The Sword is Perseus
The Scales is Libra
Hades is Hyades Cluster
The Altar is Ara (which rarely shows up in the northern hemisphere)
Sun turning black is a Solar Eclipse.
April 30th of 59 CE there was a Solar Eclipse visible in the regions where this book could possibly be written (Pliny the Elder even attests that this happened).

Thanks to the technology we have today, we can even see what stars were in the sky at the time, and where the planets were.

At about 4 AM all these constellations are present, including the rare Ara.
During the Eclipse itself (around 4:30 PM) we can see what would be visible in the sky and what we see is amazing:
The visible planets are (in order) Jupiter, Saturn, Mars, location where the Sun is eclipsed, Mars, and Venus.

Each of these planets was known to ancient astronomers, and all of them fit with the horsemen allegory.
Mars would be the fiery red horse (as it does appear red in the sky)
Jupiter would be the white horse as it not only appears white, but it also was out further than the others and the white horsemen was said to have been riding out (though, Saturn could take this place as well).
Venus fits with the pale horsemen as it would be yellowish, but barely visible.
Mercury, being as close to the Solar Eclipse as it was, could easily appear more black and fit the black horsemen.
The Hyades Cluster (Hades) even appears during the eclipse.
Also, if you stare at the sun during a solar eclipse it will effect your eyes so that the moon might appear red, perfectly matching Revelation 6.

Now, if this was all there was, then placing Revelation before 70 CE would work perfectly (as Revelation 6 perfectly matches up with the Eclipse of 59 CE), but that isn't all there is.

Revelation 8, similarly to Revelation 6, works perfectly with a Solar Eclipse as well, this time the Eclipse of 71 CE, which would put this after the destruction of Jerusalem.

I can go into this more if you want, but I have to go for now.

1 Peter uses Babylon as a way of overtly referring to Rome, so that is not a new concept.

I don't recall Peter doing this.

1 Peter 5:13

The "seven kings" all mirror perfectly with Roman Emperors.

Certainly they do, beginning with Julius.

It even says that the whore will ride a beast with 7 heads and those 7 heads represent 7 hills, which perfectly represents Rome.

The Beast is Rome. The whore is Jerusalem.

Except that the Beast best fits with Nero, not Rome.

Nero, as the leader of imperial Rome, is representative of Rome at a times.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
PGA
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9/24/2016 6:10:09 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 3:39:51 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 9/24/2016 6:15:13 AM, PGA wrote:
Furthermore, Babylon had been used many times to overtly refer to Rome.

You got Nero right but Babylon refers to Jerusalem.

Hi SNP1,

This just doesn't work historically.

Yes, it does. Jesus attributed to Jerusalem all the blood of the prophets and saints.

Matthew 23:34-38
34 "Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, 35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
Lament over Jerusalem

37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!


They are the ones who hand Jesus over to be crucified rather than Barabbas and said that His blood would be upon them.

Matthew 27:24-26
24 When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but rather that a riot was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd, saying, "I am innocent of this Man"s blood; see to that yourselves." 25 And all the people said, "His blood shall be on us and on our children!" 26 Then he released Barabbas for them; but after having Jesus scourged, he handed Him over to be crucified.


Babylon in Revelation is called THE "great city" in Revelation, not Rome.

Revelation 18:10
standing at a distance because of the fear of her torment, saying, "Woe, woe, THE great city, Babylon, the strong city! For in one hour your judgment has come."


Babylon is said to be guilty of the blood of all the prophets and saints, not Rome.

Revelation 18:18-20, 24
18 and were crying out as they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, "What city is like the great city?" 19 And they threw dust on their heads and were crying out, weeping and mourning, saying, "Woe, woe, the great city, in which all who had ships at sea became rich by her wealth, for in one hour she has been laid waste!" 20 Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you saints and apostles and prophets, because God has pronounced judgment for you against her."...24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth."

The city is referred to as THE Great City. THE great city is also figuratively called Sodom and Egypt and is where the Lord was slain. There is only one city that can fulfill the criteria. This eliminates Rome.

Revelation 11:8
8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of THE great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.


The Revelation does not say a great city or another great city, it says THE great city, signifying one city, which is also figuratively called Sodom and Egypt as well as Babylon.

The evidence is much greater than this, but it is just a tidbit to show you (such as references to the priesthood and temple within the city by imagery used to identify Jerusalem, and much more).

When Revelation was written, Jerusalem was already destroyed.

No, as Annanicole pointed out in the post just below mine. There is one reference that is very much in doubt as to whom is being referred to because of the ambiguous language used by Iranaeus. It is not sure whether Iranaeus referred to Domitian or Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus (Nero).

Every NT book has no reference to the already happened destruction of the temple and city, just warnings of this soon to be great tribulation. This is highly significant since the Jewish life revolved around the temple and priesthood. It signified their standing and relationship with God, their heaven and earth, everything they knew. For no NT writer to mention the already fulfilled destruction of their entire way of life for centuries is highly significant. It speaks to it not happeninig yet.

1 Peter uses Babylon as a way of overtly referring to Rome, so that is not a new concept.

Again, a case can be made that Peter is referring to those who are in Jerusalem.

12 Through Silvanus, our faithful brother (for so I regard him), I have written to you briefly, exhorting and testifying that this is the true grace of God. Stand firm in it! 13 She who is in Babylon, chosen together with you, sends you greetings, and so does my son, Mark. 14 Greet one another with a kiss of love.

Peace be to you all who are in Christ.


Some of the saints lived in Jerusalem.

The "seven kings" all mirror perfectly with Roman Emperors.

Yes, they do. They are associated with the Beast, the fourth empire of Daniel's vision (Daniel 2). Nero was also called the Beast by some because of his perversions which also ties into one of the references to the Beast in Revelation. He was the ruler of this kingdom during the writing of Revelation. Nero persecuted the Christians in Rome from A.D. 64-68.

Revelation 17:10 and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.


Suetonius' List
1. Julius Caesar died 44BC
2. Augustus Caesar died 14AD
3. Tiberius died 37AD
4. Caligula died 41AD
5. Claudius died 54AD
6. Nero died 68AD
7. Galba died 69AD
8. Otho died 69AD
9. Vitilleus died 69AD
10. Vespasian died 79AD
11. Titus died 81AD
12. Domitian died 96AD

http://www.agapebiblestudy.com...

It even says that the whore will ride a beast with 7 heads and those 7 heads represent 7 hills, which perfectly represents Rome.

True, the whore or harlot rides the Beast. Jerusalem and Rome had an alliance of sorts. The Jews were scattered throughout the Roman world and they were allowed to practice their religious beliefs and Jerusalem and its temple was considered a wonder and exerted some political influence upon Rome and Rome also had influence over her. She rides the Beast but she is not the Beast. Rome, the Roman Empire, the Roman kings or Caesars were the Beast. At the time Revelation was written five of these heads or kings had fallen, one was and one was to come (see Revelation 17:10 above). The one that was at the time of writing was Nero. You can trace this back by tracing back the Caesars. Josephus also makes reference to them as does Suetonius (see reference above).

So they were greatly influenced by Rome and influence Rome. Their people were scattered throughout the Roman Empire.

John 19:15
So they cried out, "Away with Him, away with Him, crucify Him!" Pilate *said to them, "Shall I crucify your King?" The chief priests answered, "We have no king but Caesar."


While Jerusalem is a common theological interpretation, historically it best fits with Rome, and so most scholars that do comment on this topic do say it is Rome.

Most scholars interpretation of Revelation hinge on the one statement of Irenaeus and try to fit everything into that worldview perspective. His one statement is very ambiguous as to who he means, whether Domitian or nero (Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus). It is not clear whether he meant Nero or Domitian.

Peter
Harikrish
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9/24/2016 7:18:13 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/23/2016 11:24:22 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 9/23/2016 10:45:41 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/23/2016 9:09:44 PM, SNP1 wrote:
The Whore of Babylon is Rome and the Beast is Nero. This has been known in historical studies for years.

Why would Revelatiins care about Rome or Nero if they were not the future or the cause of global conflict?
The Whore of Babylon (Jesus) has done more damage than both Rome or Nero.
Confusing cause and effect fallacy, you're sinking.

American Psychological Association To Classify Belief in God As a Mental Illness.
http://www.thenewsnerd.com...

Dr. Lillian Andrews, professor of psychology, stated, "Every year thousands of people die after refusing life-saving treatment on religious grounds. Even when being told "you will die without this treatment" patients reject the idea and believe that their God will still save them. Those lives could be saved simply by classifying those people as mentally unfit for decision making."
Nice straw man, "the quote" you placed in this argument, and you managed a biased sample fallacy too. Wow, you're sinking faster.

Bible lacks concept of mental illness.
http://www.debate.org...

Christians are led to believe all their problems stem from sin, spiritual weakness and demonic influences. There is little change in their attitudes towards the medical science that defines mental illness as physiological with little or no relationship to ones belief systems. The clergy still look to scriptures to deal with mental illness and its spiritual causes. They are not convinced there is medical evidence for the cause of mental illness. It is this denial and ignorance that leaves mentally ill Christians helpless to deal with their illness and are further burdened with archaic remedies that have no scientific basis.

Modern psychiatry diagnosed a few of the early biblical characters to uncover the cause for their extreme beliefs and world views riddled with a fantasma of delusions and self deception.
The biblical characters diagnosed were Jesus, Pail, Abraham and Moses. They were all found to be mentally unstable.
.
Not all those people claim that they believe that God will cure or keep them alive. They state that they will stay alive if it is Gods will for them not to die, or so say the ones I've read stories on.
You should try reading some fact based material for a change.

Kathleen Taylor, Neuroscientist, Says Religious Fundamentalism Could Be Treated As A Mental Illness.
Harikrish
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9/24/2016 7:23:13 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/23/2016 11:32:24 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 9/23/2016 5:17:47 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Who is the Whore of Babylon in Revelations?

To most readers a whore would be associated with a woman. But the Bible must be viewed without gender biases and applied equally to both male and female. Having done so we now proceed to identify who is the Whore of Babylon spoken by John in Revelations 17.

In Revelation 17 Babylon is guilty of committing "FORNICATION" and is a "WHORE". In the Bible, fornication is the act of committing adultery against God by mixing with other Pagan nations and practices (traditions) and going after other Gods. Or a spouse that committeth ADULTERY, which taketh strangers instead of their spouse .'
When God is talking about people committing adultery and being a whore in a prophetic, spiritual sense, like He is in Revelation. He is talking about someone committing adultery AGAINST HIM. And the only person who can be guilty of committing fornication (adultery) against God points to Jesus.

In Revelation 18 we read about the judgment of the Whore of Babylon. And in verse 23 it says ... "the light of the candle shall shine no more at all in thee, and the voice of the Bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more in thee." ... This is the dulling of the senses which makes Christians spiritually dead. Now, think about this. Whether we take this symbolically or literally, there is only one kind of marriage this could be talking about. If we take this symbolically, then the bride and Bridegroom is a Biblical reference to Jesus Christ and the people of Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-33; Isaiah 62:5; 2 Corinthians 11:2). Also, if we take this literally, then who do we see Jesus speak to ? The Jews. So Babylon has to be a professed people the Jews, the first bride of Jesus.

The second bride of Jesus in mentioned in Revelations.
Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25"27). Just as there was a betrothal period in biblical times during which the bride and groom were separated until the wedding, so is the bride of Christ separate from her Bridegroom during the church age. Her responsibility during the betrothal period is to be faithful to Him (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:24). At the second coming of Christ, the church will be united with the Bridegroom and the official "wedding ceremony" will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19:7"9; 21:1-2).

Jesus is therefore both the FORNICATOR AND THE WHORE IN REVELATIONS.

What are the identifying marks of the whore of Babylon?

IDENTITY 1 - Revelation 17:1 ...'I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters.'
Jesus is solicited by many nations.

IDENTITY 2 - Revelation 17:2 ...'the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.'
Jesus was often drunk on wine which he made from water.
This is completely false.
IDENTITY 3 - Revelation 17:4 ...'And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication.'
Jesus mentioned the same cup in.
Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."
And there can't be two cups why!
IDENTITY 4 - Revelation 17:5 ...'And upon his/her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH
Jesus wore a crown of thorns that left a permanent mark on his forehead.
Yeah, and that equates to something being written?
IDENTITY 5 - Revelation 17:6 ...'And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.'

The Church continue the tradition of communion a Christian sacrament in which consecrated bread and wine are consumed as memorials of Christ's death or as symbols for the realization of a spiritual union between Christ and communicant or as the body and blood of Christ.

IDENTITY 6 - Revelation 17:18 ...'And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.'
That is pointing to the Church and The Vatican City.
Completely wrong, Vatican doesnt rein over the kings of the Earth.
IDENTITYITY 7 - Revelation 17:6 ...'and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.'
Millions flock to the Vatican City to hear Jesus's message.
Non sequitur
All this points to Jesus as the Whore of Babylon and his infidelity to the Jewish people to whom he was sent : Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." while he fornicates with the church his future bride. The church is complicit in his FORNICATION AND ADULTERY AND CONTINUES WITH ITS ILLICIT AFFAIR WITH THE MALE WHORE OF BABYLON.....JESUS!!
Jesus wasn't sent here for the Jews. You simply are a fanatical idiot.
I am a Vedantist raised in the Vedantic tradition a Hindu by birth. I was trained in the reading of esoteric scriptures, Christian Theology and Islamic fundamentalism. I am a student of philosophy and the behavioural sciences, a spiritual healer and currently employed in the Information Technology field developing AI programs.
Hindus are all whores. See how generalizations work.
As you can see I have very diverse interests and on DDO alone I am a Christian championed and a champion of Muslims. I am the most spiritual member on DDO and welcome all to embrace the abundance of my Aura.
But you're kinda weird.
All links can be referenced.

Most Spiritual discusses Spirituality
http://www.debate.org...

Why Muslims need a champion here.
http://www.debate.org...

Harikrish for Christian Champion
http://www.debate.org...

A namaste to all, peace be upon you all.
What is peace? And prove peace is a good thing for all people.....ty

Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.
Harikrish
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9/24/2016 7:53:30 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 6:17:14 AM, PGA wrote:
At 9/23/2016 5:17:47 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Who is the Whore of Babylon in Revelations?

To most readers a whore would be associated with a woman. But the Bible must be viewed without gender biases and applied equally to both male and female. Having done so we now proceed to identify who is the Whore of Babylon spoken by John in Revelations 17.

In Revelation 17 Babylon is guilty of committing "FORNICATION" and is a "WHORE". In the Bible, fornication is the act of committing adultery against God by mixing with other Pagan nations and practices (traditions) and going after other Gods. Or a spouse that committeth ADULTERY, which taketh strangers instead of their spouse .'
When God is talking about people committing adultery and being a whore in a prophetic, spiritual sense, like He is in Revelation. He is talking about someone committing adultery AGAINST HIM. And the only person who can be guilty of committing fornication (adultery) against God points to Jesus.

In Revelation 18 we read about the judgment of the Whore of Babylon. And in verse 23 it says ... "the light of the candle shall shine no more at all in thee, and the voice of the Bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more in thee." ... This is the dulling of the senses which makes Christians spiritually dead. Now, think about this. Whether we take this symbolically or literally, there is only one kind of marriage this could be talking about. If we take this symbolically, then the bride and Bridegroom is a Biblical reference to Jesus Christ and the people of Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-33; Isaiah 62:5; 2 Corinthians 11:2). Also, if we take this literally, then who do we see Jesus speak to ? The Jews. So Babylon has to be a professed people the Jews, the first bride of Jesus.

The second bride of Jesus in mentioned in Revelations.
Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25"27). Just as there was a betrothal period in biblical times during which the bride and groom were separated until the wedding, so is the bride of Christ separate from her Bridegroom during the church age. Her responsibility during the betrothal period is to be faithful to Him (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:24). At the second coming of Christ, the church will be united with the Bridegroom and the official "wedding ceremony" will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19:7"9; 21:1-2).

Jesus is therefore both the FORNICATOR AND THE WHORE IN REVELATIONS.

What are the identifying marks of the whore of Babylon?

IDENTITY 1 - Revelation 17:1 ...'I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters.'
Jesus is solicited by many nations.

IDENTITY 2 - Revelation 17:2 ...'the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.'
Jesus was often drunk on wine which he made from water.

IDENTITY 3 - Revelation 17:4 ...'And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication.'
Jesus mentioned the same cup in.
Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

IDENTITY 4 - Revelation 17:5 ...'And upon his/her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH
Jesus wore a crown of thorns that left a permanent mark on his forehead.

IDENTITY 5 - Revelation 17:6 ...'And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.'

The Church continue the tradition of communion a Christian sacrament in which consecrated bread and wine are consumed as memorials of Christ's death or as symbols for the realization of a spiritual union between Christ and communicant or as the body and blood of Christ.

IDENTITY 6 - Revelation 17:18 ...'And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.'
That is pointing to the Church and The Vatican City.

IDENTITY 7 - Revelation 17:6 ...'and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.'
Millions flock to the Vatican City to hear Jesus's message.

All this points to Jesus as the Whore of Babylon and his infidelity to the Jewish people to whom he was sent : Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." while he fornicates with the church his future bride. The church is complicit in his FORNICATION AND ADULTERY AND CONTINUES WITH ITS ILLICIT AFFAIR WITH THE MALE WHORE OF BABYLON.....JESUS!!

I am a Vedantist raised in the Vedantic tradition a Hindu by birth. I was trained in the reading of esoteric scriptures, Christian Theology and Islamic fundamentalism. I am a student of philosophy and the behavioural sciences, a spiritual healer and currently employed in the Information Technology field developing AI programs.
As you can see I have very diverse interests and on DDO alone I am a Christian championed and a champion of Muslims. I am the most spiritual member on DDO and welcome all to embrace the abundance of my Aura.

All links can be referenced.

Most Spiritual discusses Spirituality
http://www.debate.org...

Why Muslims need a champion here.
http://www.debate.org...

Harikrish for Christian Champion
http://www.debate.org...

A namaste to all, peace be upon you all.

This is nonsense once again.

Hard to refute scriptural evidence that points to Jesus as the Whore of Babylon according to Revelations.

Revelations 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

That matches what Jesus wore.

Matt. 27:28, 31; Mark 15:16, 20; John 19:2,5

Jesus wore a Scarlet Robe?

Matt. 27:28, "They stripped Him and put a scarlet robe on Him."
Matt. 27:31, "After they had mocked Him, they took the scarlet robe off Him and put His own garments back on Him, and led Him away to crucify Him."

Jesus wore a Purple Robe

Mark 15:17, "They dressed Him up in purple, and after twisting a crown of thorns, they put it on Him."
Mark 15:20, "After they had mocked Him, they took the purple robe off Him and put His own garments on Him. And they led Him out to crucify Him."
John 19:2, "And the soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and put it on His head, and put a purple robe on Him."
John 19:5, "Jesus then came out, ;wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe. Pilate said to them, "Behold, the Man!"
PGA
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9/24/2016 10:16:46 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 7:53:30 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/24/2016 6:17:14 AM, PGA wrote:
At 9/23/2016 5:17:47 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Who is the Whore of Babylon in Revelations?

To most readers a whore would be associated with a woman. But the Bible must be viewed without gender biases and applied equally to both male and female. Having done so we now proceed to identify who is the Whore of Babylon spoken by John in Revelations 17.

In Revelation 17 Babylon is guilty of committing "FORNICATION" and is a "WHORE". In the Bible, fornication is the act of committing adultery against God by mixing with other Pagan nations and practices (traditions) and going after other Gods. Or a spouse that committeth ADULTERY, which taketh strangers instead of their spouse .'
When God is talking about people committing adultery and being a whore in a prophetic, spiritual sense, like He is in Revelation. He is talking about someone committing adultery AGAINST HIM. And the only person who can be guilty of committing fornication (adultery) against God points to Jesus.

In Revelation 18 we read about the judgment of the Whore of Babylon. And in verse 23 it says ... "the light of the candle shall shine no more at all in thee, and the voice of the Bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more in thee." ... This is the dulling of the senses which makes Christians spiritually dead. Now, think about this. Whether we take this symbolically or literally, there is only one kind of marriage this could be talking about. If we take this symbolically, then the bride and Bridegroom is a Biblical reference to Jesus Christ and the people of Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-33; Isaiah 62:5; 2 Corinthians 11:2). Also, if we take this literally, then who do we see Jesus speak to ? The Jews. So Babylon has to be a professed people the Jews, the first bride of Jesus.

The second bride of Jesus in mentioned in Revelations.
Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25"27). Just as there was a betrothal period in biblical times during which the bride and groom were separated until the wedding, so is the bride of Christ separate from her Bridegroom during the church age. Her responsibility during the betrothal period is to be faithful to Him (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:24). At the second coming of Christ, the church will be united with the Bridegroom and the official "wedding ceremony" will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19:7"9; 21:1-2).

Jesus is therefore both the FORNICATOR AND THE WHORE IN REVELATIONS.

What are the identifying marks of the whore of Babylon?

IDENTITY 1 - Revelation 17:1 ...'I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters.'
Jesus is solicited by many nations.

IDENTITY 2 - Revelation 17:2 ...'the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.'
Jesus was often drunk on wine which he made from water.

IDENTITY 3 - Revelation 17:4 ...'And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication.'
Jesus mentioned the same cup in.
Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

IDENTITY 4 - Revelation 17:5 ...'And upon his/her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH
Jesus wore a crown of thorns that left a permanent mark on his forehead.

IDENTITY 5 - Revelation 17:6 ...'And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.'

The Church continue the tradition of communion a Christian sacrament in which consecrated bread and wine are consumed as memorials of Christ's death or as symbols for the realization of a spiritual union between Christ and communicant or as the body and blood of Christ.

IDENTITY 6 - Revelation 17:18 ...'And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.'
That is pointing to the Church and The Vatican City.

IDENTITY 7 - Revelation 17:6 ...'and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.'
Millions flock to the Vatican City to hear Jesus's message.

All this points to Jesus as the Whore of Babylon and his infidelity to the Jewish people to whom he was sent : Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." while he fornicates with the church his future bride. The church is complicit in his FORNICATION AND ADULTERY AND CONTINUES WITH ITS ILLICIT AFFAIR WITH THE MALE WHORE OF BABYLON.....JESUS!!

I am a Vedantist raised in the Vedantic tradition a Hindu by birth. I was trained in the reading of esoteric scriptures, Christian Theology and Islamic fundamentalism. I am a student of philosophy and the behavioural sciences, a spiritual healer and currently employed in the Information Technology field developing AI programs.
As you can see I have very diverse interests and on DDO alone I am a Christian championed and a champion of Muslims. I am the most spiritual member on DDO and welcome all to embrace the abundance of my Aura.

All links can be referenced.

Most Spiritual discusses Spirituality
http://www.debate.org...

Why Muslims need a champion here.
http://www.debate.org...

Harikrish for Christian Champion
http://www.debate.org...

A namaste to all, peace be upon you all.

This is nonsense once again.

Hard to refute scriptural evidence that points to Jesus as the Whore of Babylon according to Revelations.

Revelations 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

That matches what Jesus wore.

Matt. 27:28, 31; Mark 15:16, 20; John 19:2,5

Jesus wore a Scarlet Robe?

Matt. 27:28, "They stripped Him and put a scarlet robe on Him."
Matt. 27:31, "After they had mocked Him, they took the scarlet robe off Him and put His own garments back on Him, and led Him away to crucify Him."

Jesus wore a Purple Robe

Mark 15:17, "They dressed Him up in purple, and after twisting a crown of thorns, they put it on Him."
Mark 15:20, "After they had mocked Him, they took the purple robe off Him and put His own garments on Him. And they led Him out to crucify Him."
John 19:2, "And the soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and put it on His head, and put a purple robe on Him."
John 19:5, "Jesus then came out, ;wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe. Pilate said to them, "Behold, the Man!"

The problem with your whole clueless scheme is that Revelation teaches the exact opposite of who you claim Jesus is which just goes to show that any old fool can make the Bible say any old thing by ignoring the text and context. There is a contrast between the two women, the two cities, the two covenant, the two peoples. The Revelation of Jesus Christ is that He shares the same glory, the same honor, the same worship that only God receives.

Peter
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9/24/2016 10:20:13 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/23/2016 5:17:47 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Who is the Whore of Babylon in Revelations?

To most readers a whore would be associated with a woman. But the Bible must be viewed without gender biases and applied equally to both male and female. Having done so we now proceed to identify who is the Whore of Babylon spoken by John in Revelations 17.

In Revelation 17 Babylon is guilty of committing "FORNICATION" and is a "WHORE". In the Bible, fornication is the act of committing adultery against God by mixing with other Pagan nations and practices (traditions) and going after other Gods. Or a spouse that committeth ADULTERY, which taketh strangers instead of their spouse .'
When God is talking about people committing adultery and being a whore in a prophetic, spiritual sense, like He is in Revelation. He is talking about someone committing adultery AGAINST HIM. And the only person who can be guilty of committing fornication (adultery) against God points to Jesus.

In Revelation 18 we read about the judgment of the Whore of Babylon. And in verse 23 it says ... "the light of the candle shall shine no more at all in thee, and the voice of the Bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more in thee." ... This is the dulling of the senses which makes Christians spiritually dead. Now, think about this. Whether we take this symbolically or literally, there is only one kind of marriage this could be talking about. If we take this symbolically, then the bride and Bridegroom is a Biblical reference to Jesus Christ and the people of Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-33; Isaiah 62:5; 2 Corinthians 11:2). Also, if we take this literally, then who do we see Jesus speak to ? The Jews. So Babylon has to be a professed people the Jews, the first bride of Jesus.

The second bride of Jesus in mentioned in Revelations.
Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25"27). Just as there was a betrothal period in biblical times during which the bride and groom were separated until the wedding, so is the bride of Christ separate from her Bridegroom during the church age. Her responsibility during the betrothal period is to be faithful to Him (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:24). At the second coming of Christ, the church will be united with the Bridegroom and the official "wedding ceremony" will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19:7"9; 21:1-2).

Jesus is therefore both the FORNICATOR AND THE WHORE IN REVELATIONS.

What are the identifying marks of the whore of Babylon?

IDENTITY 1 - Revelation 17:1 ...'I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters.'
Jesus is solicited by many nations.

IDENTITY 2 - Revelation 17:2 ...'the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.'
Jesus was often drunk on wine which he made from water.

IDENTITY 3 - Revelation 17:4 ...'And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication.'
Jesus mentioned the same cup in.
Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

IDENTITY 4 - Revelation 17:5 ...'And upon his/her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH
Jesus wore a crown of thorns that left a permanent mark on his forehead.

IDENTITY 5 - Revelation 17:6 ...'And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.'

The Church continue the tradition of communion a Christian sacrament in which consecrated bread and wine are consumed as memorials of Christ's death or as symbols for the realization of a spiritual union between Christ and communicant or as the body and blood of Christ.

IDENTITY 6 - Revelation 17:18 ...'And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.'
That is pointing to the Church and The Vatican City.

IDENTITY 7 - Revelation 17:6 ...'and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.'
Millions flock to the Vatican City to hear Jesus's message.

All this points to Jesus as the Whore of Babylon and his infidelity to the Jewish people to whom he was sent : Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." while he fornicates with the church his future bride. The church is complicit in his FORNICATION AND ADULTERY AND CONTINUES WITH ITS ILLICIT AFFAIR WITH THE MALE WHORE OF BABYLON.....JESUS!!

I am a Vedantist raised in the Vedantic tradition a Hindu by birth. I was trained in the reading of esoteric scriptures, Christian Theology and Islamic fundamentalism. I am a student of philosophy and the behavioural sciences, a spiritual healer and currently employed in the Information Technology field developing AI programs.
As you can see I have very diverse interests and on DDO alone I am a Christian championed and a champion of Muslims. I am the most spiritual member on DDO and welcome all to embrace the abundance of my Aura.

All links can be referenced.

Most Spiritual discusses Spirituality
http://www.debate.org...

Why Muslims need a champion here.
http://www.debate.org...

Harikrish for Christian Champion
http://www.debate.org...

A namaste to all, peace be upon you all.

PS. You have 1 day, 3 hours left to accept my debate and prove to the world that Preterism is a lie. Put your money where you mouth is. Let's see how your evidence stacks up.

Peter
dsjpk5
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9/25/2016 3:52:47 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
Pet peeve: It's the book of Revelation, not Revelations.

At 9/23/2016 5:17:47 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Who is the Whore of Babylon in Revelations?

To most readers a whore would be associated with a woman. But the Bible must be viewed without gender biases and applied equally to both male and female. Having done so we now proceed to identify who is the Whore of Babylon spoken by John in Revelations 17.

In Revelation 17 Babylon is guilty of committing "FORNICATION" and is a "WHORE". In the Bible, fornication is the act of committing adultery against God by mixing with other Pagan nations and practices (traditions) and going after other Gods. Or a spouse that committeth ADULTERY, which taketh strangers instead of their spouse .'
When God is talking about people committing adultery and being a whore in a prophetic, spiritual sense, like He is in Revelation. He is talking about someone committing adultery AGAINST HIM. And the only person who can be guilty of committing fornication (adultery) against God points to Jesus.

In Revelation 18 we read about the judgment of the Whore of Babylon. And in verse 23 it says ... "the light of the candle shall shine no more at all in thee, and the voice of the Bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more in thee." ... This is the dulling of the senses which makes Christians spiritually dead. Now, think about this. Whether we take this symbolically or literally, there is only one kind of marriage this could be talking about. If we take this symbolically, then the bride and Bridegroom is a Biblical reference to Jesus Christ and the people of Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-33; Isaiah 62:5; 2 Corinthians 11:2). Also, if we take this literally, then who do we see Jesus speak to ? The Jews. So Babylon has to be a professed people the Jews, the first bride of Jesus.

The second bride of Jesus in mentioned in Revelations.
Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25"27). Just as there was a betrothal period in biblical times during which the bride and groom were separated until the wedding, so is the bride of Christ separate from her Bridegroom during the church age. Her responsibility during the betrothal period is to be faithful to Him (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:24). At the second coming of Christ, the church will be united with the Bridegroom and the official "wedding ceremony" will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19:7"9; 21:1-2).

Jesus is therefore both the FORNICATOR AND THE WHORE IN REVELATIONS.

What are the identifying marks of the whore of Babylon?

IDENTITY 1 - Revelation 17:1 ...'I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters.'
Jesus is solicited by many nations.

IDENTITY 2 - Revelation 17:2 ...'the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.'
Jesus was often drunk on wine which he made from water.

IDENTITY 3 - Revelation 17:4 ...'And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication.'
Jesus mentioned the same cup in.
Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

IDENTITY 4 - Revelation 17:5 ...'And upon his/her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH
Jesus wore a crown of thorns that left a permanent mark on his forehead.

IDENTITY 5 - Revelation 17:6 ...'And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.'

The Church continue the tradition of communion a Christian sacrament in which consecrated bread and wine are consumed as memorials of Christ's death or as symbols for the realization of a spiritual union between Christ and communicant or as the body and blood of Christ.

IDENTITY 6 - Revelation 17:18 ...'And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.'
That is pointing to the Church and The Vatican City.

IDENTITY 7 - Revelation 17:6 ...'and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.'
Millions flock to the Vatican City to hear Jesus's message.

All this points to Jesus as the Whore of Babylon and his infidelity to the Jewish people to whom he was sent : Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." while he fornicates with the church his future bride. The church is complicit in his FORNICATION AND ADULTERY AND CONTINUES WITH ITS ILLICIT AFFAIR WITH THE MALE WHORE OF BABYLON.....JESUS!!

I am a Vedantist raised in the Vedantic tradition a Hindu by birth. I was trained in the reading of esoteric scriptures, Christian Theology and Islamic fundamentalism. I am a student of philosophy and the behavioural sciences, a spiritual healer and currently employed in the Information Technology field developing AI programs.
As you can see I have very diverse interests and on DDO alone I am a Christian championed and a champion of Muslims. I am the most spiritual member on DDO and welcome all to embrace the abundance of my Aura.

All links can be referenced.

Most Spiritual discusses Spirituality
http://www.debate.org...

Why Muslims need a champion here.
http://www.debate.org...

Harikrish for Christian Champion
http://www.debate.org...

A namaste to all, peace be upon you all.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
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9/25/2016 4:26:11 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 3:52:47 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
Pet peeve: It's the book of Revelation, not Revelations.

It's kind of like Trump quoting One Corinthians, isn't it? It shows an unfamiliarity with the Bible.

If I was an American I would still be voting for him on the grounds that the next president could alter the dynamics of the Supreme Court with their appointment. I think you have more to lose long term by not voting for him but crooked Illary.

But crooked Harikrish just makes it up as he goes along, doesn't he? He ignores the context and greater context. It is a classic case of postmodern desconstruction of a text then reconstructing it into something totally different.

Peter
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9/25/2016 5:58:30 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 7:53:30 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/24/2016 6:17:14 AM, PGA wrote:

Hard to refute scriptural evidence that points to Jesus as the Whore of Babylon according to Revelations.

You don't have any. Also, as someone else pointed out, it is Revelation, not Revelations.

Revelations 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

That matches what Jesus wore.

Matt. 27:28, 31; Mark 15:16, 20; John 19:2,5

Jesus wore a Scarlet Robe?

Matt. 27:28, "They stripped Him and put a scarlet robe on Him."
Matt. 27:31, "After they had mocked Him, they took the scarlet robe off Him and put His own garments back on Him, and led Him away to crucify Him."

Jesus wore a Purple Robe

Mark 15:17, "They dressed Him up in purple, and after twisting a crown of thorns, they put it on Him."
Mark 15:20, "After they had mocked Him, they took the purple robe off Him and put His own garments on Him. And they led Him out to crucify Him."
John 19:2, "And the soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and put it on His head, and put a purple robe on Him."
John 19:5, "Jesus then came out, ;wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe. Pilate said to them, "Behold, the Man!"

Revelation 17 is about the great city, Babylon the Harlot, and about her people, not about the Lord. It is about judgment on that city by Him, so how you come up with your ridiculous theories is beyond me.

[1] The priesthood of that city also wore gold, purple and scarlet on the ephod. [2] It had precious stones set in it representing the twelve tribes. [3] The high Priest and the other priests wore fine twisted linen. [4] They used a golden cup in the ceremonies. [5] [6] The High Priest wore a golden crown with the words inscribed, [7] "Holy to the Lord" on it.

The priesthood also handed Jesus over to be crucified, said they had no king but Caesar and were guilty of shedding the blood of all the prophets. Jesus said that this blood would be charged to them. What is more, the entire Revelation deals with God's covenant wrath upon this city and people for rejecting Jesus and all those sent to her in warning them to repent and turn from foreign gods. The result of this judgment is seen in Revelation. It is God applying the covenant curses and putting an end to this covenant. It is God's divorce against the two southern tribes and the taking of a new wife, a faithful Bride - the Church.

[1][3]Exodus 28:6
"They shall also make the ephod of gold, of blue and purple and scarlet material and fine twisted linen, the work of the skillful workman.

[2]Exodus 25:7
onyx stones and setting stones for the ephod and for the breastpiece.

[1] [3] Exodus 28:15
"You shall make a breastpiece of judgment, the work of a skillful workman; like the work of the ephod you shall make it: of gold, of blue and purple and scarlet material and fine twisted linen you shall make it.

[4] Exodus 25:31
[ The Golden Lampstand ] "Then you shall make a lampstand of pure gold. The lampstand and its base and its shaft are to be made of hammered work; its cups, its bulbs and its flowers shall be of one piece with it.

[5] Leviticus 8:9
He also placed the turban on his head, and on the turban, at its front, he placed the golden plate, the holy crown, just as the Lord had commanded Moses.

Jeremiah 51:7
Babylon has been a golden cup in the hand of the Lord, Intoxicating all the earth. The nations have drunk of her wine; Therefore the nations are going mad.

[7] Exodus 39:30
They made the plate of the holy crown of pure gold, and inscribed it like the engravings of a signet, "Holy to the Lord."


This is in complete contrast to what the priesthood and High Priest had become:

[7] Revelation 17:5
5 and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, "BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."


Now the whole description:

Revelation 17:4-6
4 The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality, 5 and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, "BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH." 6 And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly.


Revelation 18:3
For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality."


The wealth of her sensuality:

https://books.google.ca...

http://www.bible-history.com...

Matthew 23:34-36
34 "Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, 35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.


The passage in Matthew is ascribed to the religious leaders.

Revelation 17:6
And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly.


Revelation 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth."


The woman, this harlot, is a city. The city is identified as the great city. The great city was guilty of crucifying the Lord. The great city was comprised of people, people that included the priesthood and those who cried out, "Let His blood be charged to us.

Matthew 23:37-38
37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!


The religious leaders were the ones riding the Beast. They had an unholy allegency to Rome and a great deal of influence because the Jews were scattered across the Roman Empire and were allowed to practice their own religion to some extent. The temple in Jerusalem was known throughout the Roman world for its splendor, as I already noted by Josephus and included in the other thread. The chief priest and council were largely responsible for Jesus' crucifixion, even though the people also went along with the plea to crucifiy Him.

John 19:15
So they cried out, "Away with Him, away with Him, crucify Him!" Pilate *said to them, "Shall I crucify your King?" The chief priests answered, "We have no king but Caesar."

Matthew 27:20 But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowds to ask for Barabbas and to put Jesus to death.

Matthew 27:25 And all the people said, "His blood shall be on us and on our children!"


Peter
Harikrish
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9/25/2016 12:51:17 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 12:42:43 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
At 9/23/2016 5:17:47 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Who is the Whore of Babylon in Revelations?

Your mum.
Read the post you retard. Better still read the book of Revelations. There are no Hindus in it.
Harikrish
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9/25/2016 1:00:10 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 10:20:13 PM, PGA wrote:
At 9/23/2016 5:17:47 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Who is the Whore of Babylon in Revelations?

To most readers a whore would be associated with a woman. But the Bible must be viewed without gender biases and applied equally to both male and female. Having done so we now proceed to identify who is the Whore of Babylon spoken by John in Revelations 17.

In Revelation 17 Babylon is guilty of committing "FORNICATION" and is a "WHORE". In the Bible, fornication is the act of committing adultery against God by mixing with other Pagan nations and practices (traditions) and going after other Gods. Or a spouse that committeth ADULTERY, which taketh strangers instead of their spouse .'
When God is talking about people committing adultery and being a whore in a prophetic, spiritual sense, like He is in Revelation. He is talking about someone committing adultery AGAINST HIM. And the only person who can be guilty of committing fornication (adultery) against God points to Jesus.

In Revelation 18 we read about the judgment of the Whore of Babylon. And in verse 23 it says ... "the light of the candle shall shine no more at all in thee, and the voice of the Bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more in thee." ... This is the dulling of the senses which makes Christians spiritually dead. Now, think about this. Whether we take this symbolically or literally, there is only one kind of marriage this could be talking about. If we take this symbolically, then the bride and Bridegroom is a Biblical reference to Jesus Christ and the people of Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-33; Isaiah 62:5; 2 Corinthians 11:2). Also, if we take this literally, then who do we see Jesus speak to ? The Jews. So Babylon has to be a professed people the Jews, the first bride of Jesus.

The second bride of Jesus in mentioned in Revelations.
Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25"27). Just as there was a betrothal period in biblical times during which the bride and groom were separated until the wedding, so is the bride of Christ separate from her Bridegroom during the church age. Her responsibility during the betrothal period is to be faithful to Him (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:24). At the second coming of Christ, the church will be united with the Bridegroom and the official "wedding ceremony" will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19:7"9; 21:1-2).

Jesus is therefore both the FORNICATOR AND THE WHORE IN REVELATIONS.

What are the identifying marks of the whore of Babylon?

IDENTITY 1 - Revelation 17:1 ...'I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters.'
Jesus is solicited by many nations.

IDENTITY 2 - Revelation 17:2 ...'the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.'
Jesus was often drunk on wine which he made from water.

IDENTITY 3 - Revelation 17:4 ...'And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication.'
Jesus mentioned the same cup in.
Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

IDENTITY 4 - Revelation 17:5 ...'And upon his/her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH
Jesus wore a crown of thorns that left a permanent mark on his forehead.

IDENTITY 5 - Revelation 17:6 ...'And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.'

The Church continue the tradition of communion a Christian sacrament in which consecrated bread and wine are consumed as memorials of Christ's death or as symbols for the realization of a spiritual union between Christ and communicant or as the body and blood of Christ.

IDENTITY 6 - Revelation 17:18 ...'And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.'
That is pointing to the Church and The Vatican City.

IDENTITY 7 - Revelation 17:6 ...'and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.'
Millions flock to the Vatican City to hear Jesus's message.

All this points to Jesus as the Whore of Babylon and his infidelity to the Jewish people to whom he was sent : Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." while he fornicates with the church his future bride. The church is complicit in his FORNICATION AND ADULTERY AND CONTINUES WITH ITS ILLICIT AFFAIR WITH THE MALE WHORE OF BABYLON.....JESUS!!

I am a Vedantist raised in the Vedantic tradition a Hindu by birth. I was trained in the reading of esoteric scriptures, Christian Theology and Islamic fundamentalism. I am a student of philosophy and the behavioural sciences, a spiritual healer and currently employed in the Information Technology field developing AI programs.
As you can see I have very diverse interests and on DDO alone I am a Christian championed and a champion of Muslims. I am the most spiritual member on DDO and welcome all to embrace the abundance of my Aura.

All links can be referenced.

Most Spiritual discusses Spirituality
http://www.debate.org...

Why Muslims need a champion here.
http://www.debate.org...

Harikrish for Christian Champion
http://www.debate.org...

A namaste to all, peace be upon you all.

PS. You have 1 day, 3 hours left to accept my debate and prove to the world that Preterism is a lie. Put your money where you mouth is. Let's see how your evidence stacks up.

Peter

You spent 36 years learning the scriptures and could not defend it in a debate with Skepticalone. Then lost again the moral argument. What a retard!!! You cannot get past 70 AD. You are stuck in the OT economy, whatever that means.

You already lost the debate on Preterism to
http://www.debate.org...

You failed to convince anyone Revelations was written before 70 AD.
http://www.debate.org...

You also lost the moral argument
http://www.debate.org...

Try to pick a subject you are familiar with. The last three were strike outs
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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9/25/2016 2:02:12 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 5:58:30 AM, PGA wrote:
At 9/24/2016 7:53:30 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/24/2016 6:17:14 AM, PGA wrote:

Hard to refute scriptural evidence that points to Jesus as the Whore of Babylon according to Revelations.

Revelations 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

That matches what Jesus wore.

Matt. 27:28, 31; Mark 15:16, 20; John 19:2,5

Jesus wore a Scarlet Robe?

Matt. 27:28, "They stripped Him and put a scarlet robe on Him."
Matt. 27:31, "After they had mocked Him, they took the scarlet robe off Him and put His own garments back on Him, and led Him away to crucify Him."

Jesus wore a Purple Robe

Mark 15:17, "They dressed Him up in purple, and after twisting a crown of thorns, they put it on Him."
Mark 15:20, "After they had mocked Him, they took the purple robe off Him and put His own garments on Him. And they led Him out to crucify Him."
John 19:2, "And the soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and put it on His head, and put a purple robe on Him."
John 19:5, "Jesus then came out, ;wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe. Pilate said to them, "Behold, the Man!"

Revelation 17 is about the great city, Babylon the Harlot, and about her people, not about the Lord. It is about judgment on that city by Him, so how you come up with your ridiculous theories is beyond me.

[1] The priesthood of that city also wore gold, purple and scarlet on the ephod. [2] It had precious stones set in it representing the twelve tribes. [3] The high Priest and the other priests wore fine twisted linen. [4] They used a golden cup in the ceremonies. [5] [6] The High Priest wore a golden crown with the words inscribed, [7] "Holy to the Lord" on it.

The priesthood also handed Jesus over to be crucified, said they had no king but Caesar and were guilty of shedding the blood of all the prophets. Jesus said that this blood would be charged to them. What is more, the entire Revelation deals with God's covenant wrath upon this city and people for rejecting Jesus and all those sent to her in warning them to repent and turn from foreign gods. The result of this judgment is seen in Revelation. It is God applying the covenant curses and putting an end to this covenant. It is God's divorce against the two southern tribes and the taking of a new wife, a faithful Bride - the Church.

[1][3]Exodus 28:6
"They shall also make the ephod of gold, of blue and purple and scarlet material and fine twisted linen, the work of the skillful workman.

[2]Exodus 25:7
onyx stones and setting stones for the ephod and for the breastpiece.


[4] Exodus 25:31
[ The Golden Lampstand ] "Then you shall make a lampstand of pure gold. The lampstand and its base and its shaft are to be made of hammered work; its cups, its bulbs and its flowers shall be of one piece with it.

[5] Leviticus 8:9
He also placed the turban on his head, and on the turban, at its front, he placed the golden plate, the holy crown, just as the Lord had commanded Moses.

Jeremiah 51:7
Babylon has been a golden cup in the hand of the Lord, Intoxicating all the earth. The nations have drunk of her wine; Therefore the nations are going mad.

Jesus was the wine maker. He was secretly poisoning the Jews.

[7] Exodus 39:30
They made the plate of the holy crown of pure gold, and inscribed it like the engravings of a signet, "Holy to the Lord."


That is Moses criticizing the priests because he was not permitted to enter the promised land , God saw him unfit. It is also a lie because they just got out of Egypt spending 40 years in the desert and were desperately poor.

This is in complete contrast to what the priesthood and High Priest had become:

[7] Revelation 17:5
5 and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, "BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."


Now the whole description:

Revelation 17:4-6
4 The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality, 5 and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, "BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

Revelation 18:3
For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her, and the merchants
That is how Jesus the whore is being used when nations speak of Christianity.

Matthew 23:34-36
34 "Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, 35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

The Jews were not prophet killers. Jesus lied when he said tbey killed John. It was Herod who killed John over a personal matter.

Matthew could not even get Jesus's lineage to point back to David.

Revelation 17:6
And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly.


Revelation 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth."


The blood of the Jews was on Jesus. He was their messiah sent to save them, he failed. He allowed his body which was a temple to be desecrated by the Romans which brought about Daniels abomination of desolation.

Matthew 23:37-38
37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!


The Jews were not prophet killers. Refer to my link.
http://www.debate.org...

The religious leaders were the ones riding the Beast. They had an unholy allegency to Rome and a great deal of influence because the Jews were scattered across the Roman Empire and were allowed to practice their own religion to some extent. The temple in Jerusalem was known throughout the Roman world for its splendor, as I already noted by Josephus and included in the other thread. The chief priest and council were largely responsible for Jesus' crucifixion,

John 19:15
So they cried out, "Away with Him, away with Him, crucify Him!" Pilate *said to them, "Shall I crucify your King?" The chief priests answered, "We have no king but Caesar."

Jesus kept that secret from them that he was their promised messiah. How were they to know?

Matthew 16:20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

"And the disciples came, and said unto Him, Why do you speak unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto YOU to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but unto them it is NOT given." Matt 13:10-11

The Jews did not kill Jesus. Here is the scriptural evidence.

John 18:31 So Pilate said to them, "Take Him yourselves, and judge Him according to your law." The Jews said to him, " "We are not permitted to put anyone to death,"

John 19:23 When the soldiers crucified Jesus, they took his clothes, dividing them into four shares, one for each of
PGA
Posts: 4,045
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9/25/2016 2:11:54 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 1:00:10 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/24/2016 10:20:13 PM, PGA wrote:
PS. You have 1 day, 3 hours left to accept my debate and prove to the world that Preterism is a lie. Put your money where you mouth is. Let's see how your evidence stacks up.

Peter

You spent 36 years learning the scriptures and could not defend it in a debate with Skepticalone. Then lost again the moral argument. What a retard!!! You cannot get past 70 AD. You are stuck in the OT economy, whatever that means.

You already lost the debate on Preterism to
http://www.debate.org...

You failed to convince anyone Revelations was written before 70 AD.
http://www.debate.org...

You also lost the moral argument
http://www.debate.org...

Try to pick a subject you are familiar with. The last three were strike outs

Ah, your last resort "Little Chicken."

My position is one I am familiar with.

I lost the moral argument not because there are no valid arguments that could have been used but because Rationalthinker presented a better argument. That was fair and square.

I lost one debate and tied the other on eschatology not because my argument was inferior but because those voting were enamoured by Skepticalone's irrational position. He took the relevant audience, the audience of address, and read in another audience. He ignored who the passages were speaking to by substituting a people foreign to the text. I lost the vote because those reading it did not know enough about Scripture to understand the principles of hermeneutics.

I don't like debates for those reasons, but I have tried to reason with you but you keep ignoring my responses and going off on another tangent. On particular topics, you have copied and pasted the same responses many times. I want you to lay out your evidence and the sources of that evidence. I want you to be honest with yourself and others regarding your view.

I am not trying to debate Skepticalone's position here, but yours. You are making claims about Preterism that are not true. That encompasses more than Matthew 24 or Revelation. It encompasses the whole of Scripture - every unfulfilled prophetic verse that was still unfulfilled at the time of the writing of the NT books. You have called my position a lie. I have tried reasoning with you but you have funnel vision. You copy and paste the same responses all the time without identifying the source you use much of the time. When you do use Scripture you mutilate it and read in your own private views. The words of Scripture have meaning to you that is foreign from the text. As soon as you read a passage it triggers your default response, the only one you can see, not what the text actually conveys and certainty not based on the greater teaching of Scripture. You make things up all the time that are not found in the text because your worldview won't let you see the light of His word. You walk in darkness.

You have called my position a lie, you have called me dumb, a retard, so put your money where your mouth is. I want your argument on record in a formal debate. The chances are that you will still win the vote but your argument will not be true to the teachings of Scripture.

Peter
graceofgod
Posts: 5,060
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9/25/2016 3:34:22 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/23/2016 5:17:47 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Who is the Whore of Babylon in Revelations?

To most readers a whore would be associated with a woman. But the Bible must be viewed without gender biases and applied equally to both male and female. Having done so we now proceed to identify who is the Whore of Babylon spoken by John in Revelations 17.

In Revelation 17 Babylon is guilty of committing "FORNICATION" and is a "WHORE". In the Bible, fornication is the act of committing adultery against God by mixing with other Pagan nations and practices (traditions) and going after other Gods. Or a spouse that committeth ADULTERY, which taketh strangers instead of their spouse .'
When God is talking about people committing adultery and being a whore in a prophetic, spiritual sense, like He is in Revelation. He is talking about someone committing adultery AGAINST HIM. And the only person who can be guilty of committing fornication (adultery) against God points to Jesus.

In Revelation 18 we read about the judgment of the Whore of Babylon. And in verse 23 it says ... "the light of the candle shall shine no more at all in thee, and the voice of the Bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more in thee." ... This is the dulling of the senses which makes Christians spiritually dead. Now, think about this. Whether we take this symbolically or literally, there is only one kind of marriage this could be talking about. If we take this symbolically, then the bride and Bridegroom is a Biblical reference to Jesus Christ and the people of Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-33; Isaiah 62:5; 2 Corinthians 11:2). Also, if we take this literally, then who do we see Jesus speak to ? The Jews. So Babylon has to be a professed people the Jews, the first bride of Jesus.

The second bride of Jesus in mentioned in Revelations.
Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25"27). Just as there was a betrothal period in biblical times during which the bride and groom were separated until the wedding, so is the bride of Christ separate from her Bridegroom during the church age. Her responsibility during the betrothal period is to be faithful to Him (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:24). At the second coming of Christ, the church will be united with the Bridegroom and the official "wedding ceremony" will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19:7"9; 21:1-2).

Jesus is therefore both the FORNICATOR AND THE WHORE IN REVELATIONS.

What are the identifying marks of the whore of Babylon?

IDENTITY 1 - Revelation 17:1 ...'I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters.'
Jesus is solicited by many nations.

IDENTITY 2 - Revelation 17:2 ...'the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.'
Jesus was often drunk on wine which he made from water.

IDENTITY 3 - Revelation 17:4 ...'And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication.'
Jesus mentioned the same cup in.
Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

IDENTITY 4 - Revelation 17:5 ...'And upon his/her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH
Jesus wore a crown of thorns that left a permanent mark on his forehead.

IDENTITY 5 - Revelation 17:6 ...'And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.'

The Church continue the tradition of communion a Christian sacrament in which consecrated bread and wine are consumed as memorials of Christ's death or as symbols for the realization of a spiritual union between Christ and communicant or as the body and blood of Christ.

IDENTITY 6 - Revelation 17:18 ...'And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.'
That is pointing to the Church and The Vatican City.

IDENTITY 7 - Revelation 17:6 ...'and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.'
Millions flock to the Vatican City to hear Jesus's message.

All this points to Jesus as the Whore of Babylon and his infidelity to the Jewish people to whom he was sent : Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." while he fornicates with the church his future bride. The church is complicit in his FORNICATION AND ADULTERY AND CONTINUES WITH ITS ILLICIT AFFAIR WITH THE MALE WHORE OF BABYLON.....JESUS!!

I am a Vedantist raised in the Vedantic tradition a Hindu by birth. I was trained in the reading of esoteric scriptures, Christian Theology and Islamic fundamentalism. I am a student of philosophy and the behavioural sciences, a spiritual healer and currently employed in the Information Technology field developing AI programs.
As you can see I have very diverse interests and on DDO alone I am a Christian championed and a champion of Muslims. I am the most spiritual member on DDO and welcome all to embrace the abundance of my Aura.

All links can be referenced.

Most Spiritual discusses Spirituality
http://www.debate.org...

Why Muslims need a champion here.
http://www.debate.org...

Harikrish for Christian Champion
http://www.debate.org...

A namaste to all, peace be upon you all.

what a total load of utter crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,622
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9/25/2016 3:35:45 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 3:34:22 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/23/2016 5:17:47 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Who is the Whore of Babylon in Revelations?

To most readers a whore would be associated with a woman. But the Bible must be viewed without gender biases and applied equally to both male and female. Having done so we now proceed to identify who is the Whore of Babylon spoken by John in Revelations 17.

In Revelation 17 Babylon is guilty of committing "FORNICATION" and is a "WHORE". In the Bible, fornication is the act of committing adultery against God by mixing with other Pagan nations and practices (traditions) and going after other Gods. Or a spouse that committeth ADULTERY, which taketh strangers instead of their spouse .'
When God is talking about people committing adultery and being a whore in a prophetic, spiritual sense, like He is in Revelation. He is talking about someone committing adultery AGAINST HIM. And the only person who can be guilty of committing fornication (adultery) against God points to Jesus.

In Revelation 18 we read about the judgment of the Whore of Babylon. And in verse 23 it says ... "the light of the candle shall shine no more at all in thee, and the voice of the Bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more in thee." ... This is the dulling of the senses which makes Christians spiritually dead. Now, think about this. Whether we take this symbolically or literally, there is only one kind of marriage this could be talking about. If we take this symbolically, then the bride and Bridegroom is a Biblical reference to Jesus Christ and the people of Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-33; Isaiah 62:5; 2 Corinthians 11:2). Also, if we take this literally, then who do we see Jesus speak to ? The Jews. So Babylon has to be a professed people the Jews, the first bride of Jesus.

The second bride of Jesus in mentioned in Revelations.
Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25"27). Just as there was a betrothal period in biblical times during which the bride and groom were separated until the wedding, so is the bride of Christ separate from her Bridegroom during the church age. Her responsibility during the betrothal period is to be faithful to Him (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:24). At the second coming of Christ, the church will be united with the Bridegroom and the official "wedding ceremony" will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19:7"9; 21:1-2).

Jesus is therefore both the FORNICATOR AND THE WHORE IN REVELATIONS.

What are the identifying marks of the whore of Babylon?

IDENTITY 1 - Revelation 17:1 ...'I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters.'
Jesus is solicited by many nations.

IDENTITY 2 - Revelation 17:2 ...'the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.'
Jesus was often drunk on wine which he made from water.

IDENTITY 3 - Revelation 17:4 ...'And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication.'
Jesus mentioned the same cup in.
Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

IDENTITY 4 - Revelation 17:5 ...'And upon his/her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH
Jesus wore a crown of thorns that left a permanent mark on his forehead.

IDENTITY 5 - Revelation 17:6 ...'And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.'

The Church continue the tradition of communion a Christian sacrament in which consecrated bread and wine are consumed as memorials of Christ's death or as symbols for the realization of a spiritual union between Christ and communicant or as the body and blood of Christ.

IDENTITY 6 - Revelation 17:18 ...'And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.'
That is pointing to the Church and The Vatican City.

IDENTITY 7 - Revelation 17:6 ...'and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.'
Millions flock to the Vatican City to hear Jesus's message.

All this points to Jesus as the Whore of Babylon and his infidelity to the Jewish people to whom he was sent : Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." while he fornicates with the church his future bride. The church is complicit in his FORNICATION AND ADULTERY AND CONTINUES WITH ITS ILLICIT AFFAIR WITH THE MALE WHORE OF BABYLON.....JESUS!!

I am a Vedantist raised in the Vedantic tradition a Hindu by birth. I was trained in the reading of esoteric scriptures, Christian Theology and Islamic fundamentalism. I am a student of philosophy and the behavioural sciences, a spiritual healer and currently employed in the Information Technology field developing AI programs.
As you can see I have very diverse interests and on DDO alone I am a Christian championed and a champion of Muslims. I am the most spiritual member on DDO and welcome all to embrace the abundance of my Aura.

All links can be referenced.

Most Spiritual discusses Spirituality
http://www.debate.org...

Why Muslims need a champion here.
http://www.debate.org...

Harikrish for Christian Champion
http://www.debate.org...

A namaste to all, peace be upon you all.

what a total load of utter crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, is that you debating your faith with Hari? Is this a prime example of why you post on a religious forum?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
graceofgod
Posts: 5,060
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9/25/2016 3:39:08 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 3:35:45 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/25/2016 3:34:22 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/23/2016 5:17:47 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Who is the Whore of Babylon in Revelations?

To most readers a whore would be associated with a woman. But the Bible must be viewed without gender biases and applied equally to both male and female. Having done so we now proceed to identify who is the Whore of Babylon spoken by John in Revelations 17.

In Revelation 17 Babylon is guilty of committing "FORNICATION" and is a "WHORE". In the Bible, fornication is the act of committing adultery against God by mixing with other Pagan nations and practices (traditions) and going after other Gods. Or a spouse that committeth ADULTERY, which taketh strangers instead of their spouse .'
When God is talking about people committing adultery and being a whore in a prophetic, spiritual sense, like He is in Revelation. He is talking about someone committing adultery AGAINST HIM. And the only person who can be guilty of committing fornication (adultery) against God points to Jesus.

In Revelation 18 we read about the judgment of the Whore of Babylon. And in verse 23 it says ... "the light of the candle shall shine no more at all in thee, and the voice of the Bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more in thee." ... This is the dulling of the senses which makes Christians spiritually dead. Now, think about this. Whether we take this symbolically or literally, there is only one kind of marriage this could be talking about. If we take this symbolically, then the bride and Bridegroom is a Biblical reference to Jesus Christ and the people of Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-33; Isaiah 62:5; 2 Corinthians 11:2). Also, if we take this literally, then who do we see Jesus speak to ? The Jews. So Babylon has to be a professed people the Jews, the first bride of Jesus.

The second bride of Jesus in mentioned in Revelations.
Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25"27). Just as there was a betrothal period in biblical times during which the bride and groom were separated until the wedding, so is the bride of Christ separate from her Bridegroom during the church age. Her responsibility during the betrothal period is to be faithful to Him (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:24). At the second coming of Christ, the church will be united with the Bridegroom and the official "wedding ceremony" will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19:7"9; 21:1-2).

Jesus is therefore both the FORNICATOR AND THE WHORE IN REVELATIONS.

What are the identifying marks of the whore of Babylon?

IDENTITY 1 - Revelation 17:1 ...'I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters.'
Jesus is solicited by many nations.

IDENTITY 2 - Revelation 17:2 ...'the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.'
Jesus was often drunk on wine which he made from water.

IDENTITY 3 - Revelation 17:4 ...'And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication.'
Jesus mentioned the same cup in.
Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

IDENTITY 4 - Revelation 17:5 ...'And upon his/her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH
Jesus wore a crown of thorns that left a permanent mark on his forehead.

IDENTITY 5 - Revelation 17:6 ...'And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.'

The Church continue the tradition of communion a Christian sacrament in which consecrated bread and wine are consumed as memorials of Christ's death or as symbols for the realization of a spiritual union between Christ and communicant or as the body and blood of Christ.

IDENTITY 6 - Revelation 17:18 ...'And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.'
That is pointing to the Church and The Vatican City.

IDENTITY 7 - Revelation 17:6 ...'and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.'
Millions flock to the Vatican City to hear Jesus's message.

All this points to Jesus as the Whore of Babylon and his infidelity to the Jewish people to whom he was sent : Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." while he fornicates with the church his future bride. The church is complicit in his FORNICATION AND ADULTERY AND CONTINUES WITH ITS ILLICIT AFFAIR WITH THE MALE WHORE OF BABYLON.....JESUS!!

I am a Vedantist raised in the Vedantic tradition a Hindu by birth. I was trained in the reading of esoteric scriptures, Christian Theology and Islamic fundamentalism. I am a student of philosophy and the behavioural sciences, a spiritual healer and currently employed in the Information Technology field developing AI programs.
As you can see I have very diverse interests and on DDO alone I am a Christian championed and a champion of Muslims. I am the most spiritual member on DDO and welcome all to embrace the abundance of my Aura.

All links can be referenced.

Most Spiritual discusses Spirituality
http://www.debate.org...

Why Muslims need a champion here.
http://www.debate.org...

Harikrish for Christian Champion
http://www.debate.org...

A namaste to all, peace be upon you all.

what a total load of utter crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, is that you debating your faith with Hari? Is this a prime example of why you post on a religious forum?

hari has a religion not a faith and a very dangerous religion at that, his religion likes to kill gays, I'm surprised you like defending him..lol