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Religion and Conspiracy Theories

matt8800
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9/24/2016 3:31:13 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
I had a hunch that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories because they maintain a belief in spite of the evidence to the contrary. I googled it and discovered it has been found that people that are religious are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

"In the current"issue of"American Journal of Political Science"(October 2014), two researchers from the University of Chicago, J. Eric Oliver and Thomas J. Wood, published a study titled, "Conspiracy Theories and the Paranoid Style(s) of Mass Opinion." The pair used data from four surveys from"Cooperative Congressional Election Studies"that asked respondents to respond to statements"about their beliefs in various conspiracy theories."

"In other words, over half of Americans believe in a conspiracy theory, even when insufficient evidence to support that belief exists. The researchers then"use a host of variables to determine conspiracism predictors. These suggest something rather interesting about certain religious people."

It goes on to explain how they concluded religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

"This is not to say merely that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories. The study and its sources suggest a natural psychological phenomenon that is responsible for both beliefs in supernatural agencies as well as unseen actors behind major events. In other words, instead of the two being causally linked, the two are linked by a shared cause, an evolutionary predisposition to draw any conclusion we can in order to protect ourselves from danger. "

https://atheistpapers.com...

It seems to me that religions basically are conspiracy theories.
uncung
Posts: 3,431
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9/24/2016 3:56:00 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 3:31:13 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I had a hunch that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories because they maintain a belief in spite of the evidence to the contrary. I googled it and discovered it has been found that people that are religious are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

"In the current"issue of"American Journal of Political Science"(October 2014), two researchers from the University of Chicago, J. Eric Oliver and Thomas J. Wood, published a study titled, "Conspiracy Theories and the Paranoid Style(s) of Mass Opinion." The pair used data from four surveys from"Cooperative Congressional Election Studies"that asked respondents to respond to statements"about their beliefs in various conspiracy theories."

"In other words, over half of Americans believe in a conspiracy theory, even when insufficient evidence to support that belief exists. The researchers then"use a host of variables to determine conspiracism predictors. These suggest something rather interesting about certain religious people."

It goes on to explain how they concluded religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

"This is not to say merely that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories. The study and its sources suggest a natural psychological phenomenon that is responsible for both beliefs in supernatural agencies as well as unseen actors behind major events. In other words, instead of the two being causally linked, the two are linked by a shared cause, an evolutionary predisposition to draw any conclusion we can in order to protect ourselves from danger. "

https://atheistpapers.com...

It seems to me that religions basically are conspiracy theories.

I do believe the conspiracy activities if they were proven true.
matt8800
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9/24/2016 4:04:50 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 3:56:00 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/24/2016 3:31:13 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I had a hunch that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories because they maintain a belief in spite of the evidence to the contrary. I googled it and discovered it has been found that people that are religious are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

"In the current"issue of"American Journal of Political Science"(October 2014), two researchers from the University of Chicago, J. Eric Oliver and Thomas J. Wood, published a study titled, "Conspiracy Theories and the Paranoid Style(s) of Mass Opinion." The pair used data from four surveys from"Cooperative Congressional Election Studies"that asked respondents to respond to statements"about their beliefs in various conspiracy theories."

"In other words, over half of Americans believe in a conspiracy theory, even when insufficient evidence to support that belief exists. The researchers then"use a host of variables to determine conspiracism predictors. These suggest something rather interesting about certain religious people."

It goes on to explain how they concluded religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

"This is not to say merely that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories. The study and its sources suggest a natural psychological phenomenon that is responsible for both beliefs in supernatural agencies as well as unseen actors behind major events. In other words, instead of the two being causally linked, the two are linked by a shared cause, an evolutionary predisposition to draw any conclusion we can in order to protect ourselves from danger. "

https://atheistpapers.com...

It seems to me that religions basically are conspiracy theories.

I do believe the conspiracy activities if they were proven true.

If they are proven to be true, they are no longer conspiracy theories.

What the average person considers to be proof and what a scientist or judge would consider proof are two different things, however.
Willows
Posts: 2,027
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9/24/2016 1:09:54 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 3:31:13 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I had a hunch that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories because they maintain a belief in spite of the evidence to the contrary. I googled it and discovered it has been found that people that are religious are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

"In the current"issue of"American Journal of Political Science"(October 2014), two researchers from the University of Chicago, J. Eric Oliver and Thomas J. Wood, published a study titled, "Conspiracy Theories and the Paranoid Style(s) of Mass Opinion." The pair used data from four surveys from"Cooperative Congressional Election Studies"that asked respondents to respond to statements"about their beliefs in various conspiracy theories."

"In other words, over half of Americans believe in a conspiracy theory, even when insufficient evidence to support that belief exists. The researchers then"use a host of variables to determine conspiracism predictors. These suggest something rather interesting about certain religious people."

It goes on to explain how they concluded religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

"This is not to say merely that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories. The study and its sources suggest a natural psychological phenomenon that is responsible for both beliefs in supernatural agencies as well as unseen actors behind major events. In other words, instead of the two being causally linked, the two are linked by a shared cause, an evolutionary predisposition to draw any conclusion we can in order to protect ourselves from danger. "

https://atheistpapers.com...

It seems to me that religions basically are conspiracy theories.

Yep, right on the nail here. I have found that the more religious that people are, the more they gravitate to not only conspiracy theories but virtually anything spiritual and alternative medicine, chiropractors, naturopaths, hypnotism, accupuncture etc.

Religion has had a pretty good ride over the centuries, sucking in the gullible and vulnerable, however in recent years alternative medicine has been capitalising in the same way.
The "practitioners" are getting more sophisticated at roping in their unsuspecting and unquestioning patients. Gone are the days of the travelling medicine shows. Now you get these swish-looking medical styled clinics with plenty of bogus certificates adorning the walls, the practitioners wearing white coats and acting very concerned.

These con-artists stay in business and thrive because there are enough people out there willing to fall for their quackery.
Fly
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9/25/2016 1:22:37 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 3:31:13 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I had a hunch that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories because they maintain a belief in spite of the evidence to the contrary. I googled it and discovered it has been found that people that are religious are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

"In the current"issue of"American Journal of Political Science"(October 2014), two researchers from the University of Chicago, J. Eric Oliver and Thomas J. Wood, published a study titled, "Conspiracy Theories and the Paranoid Style(s) of Mass Opinion." The pair used data from four surveys from"Cooperative Congressional Election Studies"that asked respondents to respond to statements"about their beliefs in various conspiracy theories."

"In other words, over half of Americans believe in a conspiracy theory, even when insufficient evidence to support that belief exists. The researchers then"use a host of variables to determine conspiracism predictors. These suggest something rather interesting about certain religious people."

It goes on to explain how they concluded religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

"This is not to say merely that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories. The study and its sources suggest a natural psychological phenomenon that is responsible for both beliefs in supernatural agencies as well as unseen actors behind major events. In other words, instead of the two being causally linked, the two are linked by a shared cause, an evolutionary predisposition to draw any conclusion we can in order to protect ourselves from danger. "

https://atheistpapers.com...

It seems to me that religions basically are conspiracy theories.

Thanks to the Internet, I have come across many of this type. It involves a heavy predisposition towards pseudoscience-- a stubborn gullibility. CT's cannot handle randomness or coincidence in the world. The line of thinking usually culminates in blaming a small Jewish cabal for all the world's ills.

Even maistream Americans who don't consider themselves CT's believe in theories such as climate change being a hoax and Iraq's WMDs having been sneaked into Syria.
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
keithprosser
Posts: 1,886
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9/25/2016 1:40:21 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
I'm fairly sure I did a post about the similarity between religion and conspiracy theories at some point on ddo a while back... A lot of people hate the idea of things happening 'at random' and crave there to be a 'grand plan. Whether the planner is a God or a bunch of billionaires in a smokey room is a detail...
I would have thought most believed in one or the other tho'.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,370
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9/25/2016 3:42:45 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 3:31:13 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I had a hunch that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories because they maintain a belief in spite of the evidence to the contrary. I googled it and discovered it has been found that people that are religious are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

"In the current"issue of"American Journal of Political Science"(October 2014), two researchers from the University of Chicago, J. Eric Oliver and Thomas J. Wood, published a study titled, "Conspiracy Theories and the Paranoid Style(s) of Mass Opinion." The pair used data from four surveys from"Cooperative Congressional Election Studies"that asked respondents to respond to statements"about their beliefs in various conspiracy theories."

"In other words, over half of Americans believe in a conspiracy theory, even when insufficient evidence to support that belief exists. The researchers then"use a host of variables to determine conspiracism predictors. These suggest something rather interesting about certain religious people."

It goes on to explain how they concluded religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

"This is not to say merely that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories. The study and its sources suggest a natural psychological phenomenon that is responsible for both beliefs in supernatural agencies as well as unseen actors behind major events. In other words, instead of the two being causally linked, the two are linked by a shared cause, an evolutionary predisposition to draw any conclusion we can in order to protect ourselves from danger. "

https://atheistpapers.com...

It seems to me that religions basically are conspiracy theories.
I'm not having luck with this link. I'll try again later, I'd like to read it in it's entirety.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,370
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9/25/2016 4:00:02 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 3:31:13 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I had a hunch that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories because they maintain a belief in spite of the evidence to the contrary. I googled it and discovered it has been found that people that are religious are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

I generally find that if I get a hunch, I could can find a website to support it.
"In the current"issue of"American Journal of Political Science"(October 2014), two researchers from the University of Chicago, J. Eric Oliver and Thomas J. Wood, published a study titled, "Conspiracy Theories and the Paranoid Style(s) of Mass Opinion." The pair used data from four surveys from"Cooperative Congressional Election Studies"that asked respondents to respond to statements"about their beliefs in various conspiracy theories."

Maybe the AJPS got it backwards again as they maintain they did concerning liberal and conservative psychoticism.
matt8800
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9/25/2016 4:26:15 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 4:00:02 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 9/24/2016 3:31:13 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I had a hunch that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories because they maintain a belief in spite of the evidence to the contrary. I googled it and discovered it has been found that people that are religious are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

I generally find that if I get a hunch, I could can find a website to support it.

Do you disagree with anything in the link? If so, what specifically?
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,370
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9/25/2016 4:27:56 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 4:26:15 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 4:00:02 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 9/24/2016 3:31:13 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I had a hunch that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories because they maintain a belief in spite of the evidence to the contrary. I googled it and discovered it has been found that people that are religious are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

I generally find that if I get a hunch, I could can find a website to support it.

Do you disagree with anything in the link? If so, what specifically?
I'm still not able to get on the link.
matt8800
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9/25/2016 4:29:24 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 4:27:56 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 9/25/2016 4:26:15 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 4:00:02 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 9/24/2016 3:31:13 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I had a hunch that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories because they maintain a belief in spite of the evidence to the contrary. I googled it and discovered it has been found that people that are religious are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

I generally find that if I get a hunch, I could can find a website to support it.

Do you disagree with anything in the link? If so, what specifically?
I'm still not able to get on the link.

It works for me when I click on it. Here it is again - https://atheistpapers.com...

without it hyperlinked - atheistpapers.com/2015/01/05/study-religious-people-more-likely-to-believe-in-conspiracy-theories/comment-page-1/
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,370
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9/25/2016 4:32:47 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 4:29:24 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 4:27:56 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 9/25/2016 4:26:15 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 4:00:02 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 9/24/2016 3:31:13 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I had a hunch that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories because they maintain a belief in spite of the evidence to the contrary. I googled it and discovered it has been found that people that are religious are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

I generally find that if I get a hunch, I could can find a website to support it.

Do you disagree with anything in the link? If so, what specifically?
I'm still not able to get on the link.

It works for me when I click on it. Here it is again - https://atheistpapers.com...

without it hyperlinked - atheistpapers.com/2015/01/05/study-religious-people-more-likely-to-believe-in-conspiracy-theories/comment-page-1/
I tried that already. I'm getting the problem loading page. I'll try again later.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,370
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9/26/2016 5:42:22 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 3:31:13 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I had a hunch that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories because they maintain a belief in spite of the evidence to the contrary. I googled it and discovered it has been found that people that are religious are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

"In the current"issue of"American Journal of Political Science"(October 2014), two researchers from the University of Chicago, J. Eric Oliver and Thomas J. Wood, published a study titled, "Conspiracy Theories and the Paranoid Style(s) of Mass Opinion." The pair used data from four surveys from"Cooperative Congressional Election Studies"that asked respondents to respond to statements"about their beliefs in various conspiracy theories."

"In other words, over half of Americans believe in a conspiracy theory, even when insufficient evidence to support that belief exists. The researchers then"use a host of variables to determine conspiracism predictors. These suggest something rather interesting about certain religious people."

It goes on to explain how they concluded religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

"This is not to say merely that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories. The study and its sources suggest a natural psychological phenomenon that is responsible for both beliefs in supernatural agencies as well as unseen actors behind major events. In other words, instead of the two being causally linked, the two are linked by a shared cause, an evolutionary predisposition to draw any conclusion we can in order to protect ourselves from danger. "

https://atheistpapers.com...

It seems to me that religions basically are conspiracy theories.
Still no luck in linking to that page (I didn't really think I would though.) I tried a couple of alternative sites referring to the same article, but they didn't seem to have much to go on. Maybe I'll keep trying, but for now, I can certainly go with what you've provided.

Frankly, it seems quite odd to me because a number of conspiracy theories that come to my mind don't seem to have any relation to religion. I think it's one thing to say a religious person is more likely to embrace a conspiracy theory due to believing in unseen forces, thus more likely to believe in behind-the-scene forces. But unless there's specific examples, I don't think there's much to go on.

" The pair used data from four surveys from"Cooperative Congressional Election Studies"that asked respondents to respond to statements"about their beliefs in various conspiracy theories."

And I don't know if the article actually gives specific examples. And a desire to protect ourselves from danger is not a trait relegated to the religious. And I have to wonder who they are referring to in the above underlined statement certain religious people. Who are these certain religious people? And what do they even mean by religious?

If we took what I consider conspiracy theories involving American government (911/inside job, etc.), from my experience, Christians generally are not the ones who embrace them. particularly when we're talking about conservative Christians who maintain that American government is basically upright. I think it's more common for liberals to concoct CTs specifically when it involves American government. Especially when a republican is in the house.

And....what one person might consider a CT, another won't. I personally consider the claims against the ID movement a CT. Obviously you won't.

And let's face it, in terms of paranoia, many liberals and atheists are quite paranoid about religious domination. Look at the whole Cross at Ground Zero conflict where some atheists claim to be experiencing trauma due to the monumentation of a cross representing of course Christianity.
matt8800
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9/28/2016 2:08:11 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 5:42:22 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 9/24/2016 3:31:13 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I had a hunch that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories because they maintain a belief in spite of the evidence to the contrary. I googled it and discovered it has been found that people that are religious are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

"In the current"issue of"American Journal of Political Science"(October 2014), two researchers from the University of Chicago, J. Eric Oliver and Thomas J. Wood, published a study titled, "Conspiracy Theories and the Paranoid Style(s) of Mass Opinion." The pair used data from four surveys from"Cooperative Congressional Election Studies"that asked respondents to respond to statements"about their beliefs in various conspiracy theories."

"In other words, over half of Americans believe in a conspiracy theory, even when insufficient evidence to support that belief exists. The researchers then"use a host of variables to determine conspiracism predictors. These suggest something rather interesting about certain religious people."

It goes on to explain how they concluded religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

"This is not to say merely that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories. The study and its sources suggest a natural psychological phenomenon that is responsible for both beliefs in supernatural agencies as well as unseen actors behind major events. In other words, instead of the two being causally linked, the two are linked by a shared cause, an evolutionary predisposition to draw any conclusion we can in order to protect ourselves from danger. "

https://atheistpapers.com...

It seems to me that religions basically are conspiracy theories.
Still no luck in linking to that page (I didn't really think I would though.) I tried a couple of alternative sites referring to the same article, but they didn't seem to have much to go on. Maybe I'll keep trying, but for now, I can certainly go with what you've provided.

Frankly, it seems quite odd to me because a number of conspiracy theories that come to my mind don't seem to have any relation to religion. I think it's one thing to say a religious person is more likely to embrace a conspiracy theory due to believing in unseen forces, thus more likely to believe in behind-the-scene forces. But unless there's specific examples, I don't think there's much to go on.

They referenced a study that found that people that identified as religious were more likely to believe in conspiracy theories. I don't think anyone is claiming ALL religious people believe in conspiracy theories....just more so.

" The pair used data from four surveys from"Cooperative Congressional Election Studies"that asked respondents to respond to statements"about their beliefs in various conspiracy theories."

And I don't know if the article actually gives specific examples. And a desire to protect ourselves from danger is not a trait relegated to the religious. And I have to wonder who they are referring to in the above underlined statement certain religious people. Who are these certain religious people? And what do they even mean by religious?

As I mentioned above, it is people that self identified as believing in a religion as opposed to people that identified as irreligious.

I am not surprised that was found in the study. Both religion and conspiracy theories require belief without evidence.

Even Christians admit they don't have evidence. That is why they say having faith that their religion is right is important.

Here is how a Christian author describes faith:

"Faith is defined as belief with strong conviction; firm belief in something for which there may be no tangible proof; complete trust, confidence, reliance or devotion. Faith is the opposite of doubt." Source - http://christianity.about.com...


If we took what I consider conspiracy theories involving American government (911/inside job, etc.), from my experience, Christians generally are not the ones who embrace them. particularly when we're talking about conservative Christians who maintain that American government is basically upright. I think it's more common for liberals to concoct CTs specifically when it involves American government. Especially when a republican is in the house.

Please provide sources. I doubt you have any though ;)

And....what one person might consider a CT, another won't. I personally consider the claims against the ID movement a CT. Obviously you won't.

Sources please.


And let's face it, in terms of paranoia, many liberals and atheists are quite paranoid about religious domination. Look at the whole Cross at Ground Zero conflict where some atheists claim to be experiencing trauma due to the monumentation of a cross representing of course Christianity.

I experienced no trauma. Maybe you should start a poll of how many atheists would be traumatized (I doubt many, if any).
RoderickSpode
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9/28/2016 3:01:00 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 2:08:11 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 5:42:22 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 9/24/2016 3:31:13 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I had a hunch that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories because they maintain a belief in spite of the evidence to the contrary. I googled it and discovered it has been found that people that are religious are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

"In the current"issue of"American Journal of Political Science"(October 2014), two researchers from the University of Chicago, J. Eric Oliver and Thomas J. Wood, published a study titled, "Conspiracy Theories and the Paranoid Style(s) of Mass Opinion." The pair used data from four surveys from"Cooperative Congressional Election Studies"that asked respondents to respond to statements"about their beliefs in various conspiracy theories."

"In other words, over half of Americans believe in a conspiracy theory, even when insufficient evidence to support that belief exists. The researchers then"use a host of variables to determine conspiracism predictors. These suggest something rather interesting about certain religious people."

It goes on to explain how they concluded religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

"This is not to say merely that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories. The study and its sources suggest a natural psychological phenomenon that is responsible for both beliefs in supernatural agencies as well as unseen actors behind major events. In other words, instead of the two being causally linked, the two are linked by a shared cause, an evolutionary predisposition to draw any conclusion we can in order to protect ourselves from danger. "

https://atheistpapers.com...

It seems to me that religions basically are conspiracy theories.
Still no luck in linking to that page (I didn't really think I would though.) I tried a couple of alternative sites referring to the same article, but they didn't seem to have much to go on. Maybe I'll keep trying, but for now, I can certainly go with what you've provided.

Frankly, it seems quite odd to me because a number of conspiracy theories that come to my mind don't seem to have any relation to religion. I think it's one thing to say a religious person is more likely to embrace a conspiracy theory due to believing in unseen forces, thus more likely to believe in behind-the-scene forces. But unless there's specific examples, I don't think there's much to go on.

They referenced a study that found that people that identified as religious were more likely to believe in conspiracy theories. I don't think anyone is claiming ALL religious people believe in conspiracy theories....just more so.

" The pair used data from four surveys from"Cooperative Congressional Election Studies"that asked respondents to respond to statements"about their beliefs in various conspiracy theories."

And I don't know if the article actually gives specific examples. And a desire to protect ourselves from danger is not a trait relegated to the religious. And I have to wonder who they are referring to in the above underlined statement certain religious people. Who are these certain religious people? And what do they even mean by religious?

As I mentioned above, it is people that self identified as believing in a religion as opposed to people that identified as irreligious.

What religions? Hinduism? Buddhism? Christianity? New Age?
I am not surprised that was found in the study. Both religion and conspiracy theories require belief without evidence.

I gave one example that doesn't mesh specifically with Christianity (as I don't know about other religions). I'll give another.

UFO government cover-up conspiracy theories. That one certainly doesn't mesh with Christianity, considering the existence of aliens supposedly would cause Christians to question their faith.

I guess I do need some specific examples of CTs embraced by the religious.
Even Christians admit they don't have evidence. That is why they say having faith that their religion is right is important.

Here is how a Christian author describes faith:

"Faith is defined as belief with strong conviction; firm belief in something for which there may be no tangible proof; complete trust, confidence, reliance or devotion. Faith is the opposite of doubt." Source - http://christianity.about.com...
Generally, conspiracy theorists tend to claim to at least have evidence. We're talking a whole different ball-game.


If we took what I consider conspiracy theories involving American government (911/inside job, etc.), from my experience, Christians generally are not the ones who embrace them. particularly when we're talking about conservative Christians who maintain that American government is basically upright. I think it's more common for liberals to concoct CTs specifically when it involves American government. Especially when a republican is in the house.

Please provide sources. I doubt you have any though ;)

For one, it's fairly common knowledge that conservative Christians tend to trust the actions of the American government, particularly in issues concerning war and the fight against terrorism. In fact, that's been a major criticism against Christianity for quite some time. I can look for websites showing this if you really need it.
And....what one person might consider a CT, another won't. I personally consider the claims against the ID movement a CT. Obviously you won't.

Sources please.

Isn't there a claim that the ID movement is set on pushing Christianity into public schools? Do I really need to give you sources?

And let's face it, in terms of paranoia, many liberals and atheists are quite paranoid about religious domination. Look at the whole Cross at Ground Zero conflict where some atheists claim to be experiencing trauma due to the monumentation of a cross representing of course Christianity.

I experienced no trauma. Maybe you should start a poll of how many atheists would be traumatized (I doubt many, if any).
In my reference to trauma, I said some atheists. More specifically, the American Atheists organization.

http://www.patheos.com...
matt8800
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9/28/2016 6:56:34 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 3:01:00 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:


As I mentioned above, it is people that self identified as believing in a religion as opposed to people that identified as irreligious.

What religions? Hinduism? Buddhism? Christianity? New Age?

I would assume any religions in which people believe in myths and superstition without any evidence. Basically, people that require no evidence for their beliefs.

I am not surprised that was found in the study. Both religion and conspiracy theories require belief without evidence.

I gave one example that doesn't mesh specifically with Christianity (as I don't know about other religions). I'll give another.

UFO government cover-up conspiracy theories. That one certainly doesn't mesh with Christianity, considering the existence of aliens supposedly would cause Christians to question their faith.

I guess I do need some specific examples of CTs embraced by the religious.

I am not pointing out any specific CT. What the studies show is that people that have religious beliefs are more likely to also believe in unsubstantiated CTs in general.

Even Christians admit they don't have evidence. That is why they say having faith that their religion is right is important.

Here is how a Christian author describes faith:

"Faith is defined as belief with strong conviction; firm belief in something for which there may be no tangible proof; complete trust, confidence, reliance or devotion. Faith is the opposite of doubt." Source - http://christianity.about.com...
Generally, conspiracy theorists tend to claim to at least have evidence. We're talking a whole different ball-game.


If we took what I consider conspiracy theories involving American government (911/inside job, etc.), from my experience, Christians generally are not the ones who embrace them. particularly when we're talking about conservative Christians who maintain that American government is basically upright. I think it's more common for liberals to concoct CTs specifically when it involves American government. Especially when a republican is in the house.

Please provide sources. I doubt you have any though ;)

For one, it's fairly common knowledge that conservative Christians tend to trust the actions of the American government, particularly in issues concerning war and the fight against terrorism. In fact, that's been a major criticism against Christianity for quite some time. I can look for websites showing this if you really need it.

I believe some politicians are stupid but I don't believe in any conspiracy theories regarding the fight against terror.

And....what one person might consider a CT, another won't. I personally consider the claims against the ID movement a CT. Obviously you won't.

Sources please.

Isn't there a claim that the ID movement is set on pushing Christianity into public schools? Do I really need to give you sources?

That is substantiated. ID nuts are very clear about their wishes to get their beliefs taught in schools.

And let's face it, in terms of paranoia, many liberals and atheists are quite paranoid about religious domination. Look at the whole Cross at Ground Zero conflict where some atheists claim to be experiencing trauma due to the monumentation of a cross representing of course Christianity.

I experienced no trauma. Maybe you should start a poll of how many atheists would be traumatized (I doubt many, if any).
In my reference to trauma, I said some atheists. More specifically, the American Atheists organization.

http://www.patheos.com...

I didn't see anything in there about atheists claiming to be traumatized.
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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9/28/2016 7:14:45 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
Quite comical... postulate a premise, get patted on the back, someone asks a challenge, someone gets defensive...

This has to be the silliest forum on this site. Back to politics and society.

Sources please.lol (as if a 'source on conspiracy has much credibility to begin with).

As a final joke... since we have google warriors/phds all over this site, and there is actually a growing and dangerous trend in my field of medicine in regards to the google warrior/phd self diagnosing, specifically medication and mental illness: I highly suggest those on here do that instead of seeing a practitioner. Seriously, please do. Let us quacks and nutrionists see people who over charge, are in league with the evil health care companies and big pharma, and continue to show your vastly superior intelligence and creativity by, wait for it..... Google.
YoshiBoy13
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9/29/2016 12:21:28 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
+10 points if the conspiracy theory involves "voluntary donations"
- Just because you're narrow-minded doesn't mean you're always right.
RoderickSpode
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9/29/2016 3:11:30 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 6:56:34 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 3:01:00 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:


As I mentioned above, it is people that self identified as believing in a religion as opposed to people that identified as irreligious.

What religions? Hinduism? Buddhism? Christianity? New Age?

I would assume any religions in which people believe in myths and superstition without any evidence. Basically, people that require no evidence for their beliefs.

Most religions as far as I know believe in some sort of spiritual force or deity/deities. So that's very vague, unless you've broadened your mind to possibly include atheism as a religion. I'm afraid you'll have to do a lot better than that. Does the article list any specific religions at all?

I will be willing to accommodate though, granted I have a hunch that the first religion that pops into your mind in these scenarios (which sound like conspiracy theories in themselves) is Christianity. What seems to be the most commonly talked about CT, at least on cable TV is UFO government cover-up. While I have no reason to believe that atheists don't buy into this is as much as anyone, there is a religious or spiritual connection between New Age religion, and UFOs. For instance, some NA religionists practice channeling ETs in similar fashion to ghosts or spirits. Some view ETs as enlightened beings (Masters is a term sometimes used) in similar fashion to an enlightened human religious figure. So maybe our polling pals interviewed New Age religionists, and found them to be the most vulnerable to CTs statistically speaking. (Remember, the discovery of ETs supposedly would shake the Christian's faith). But of course if so, they should specify New Age rather than just tossing out the term religious which throws people off, much the same way as people who accuse religion in general of causing terrorist activity rather than the specific religion, or better yet faction of specific religion.

I am not surprised that was found in the study. Both religion and conspiracy theories require belief without evidence.

I gave one example that doesn't mesh specifically with Christianity (as I don't know about other religions). I'll give another.

UFO government cover-up conspiracy theories. That one certainly doesn't mesh with Christianity, considering the existence of aliens supposedly would cause Christians to question their faith.

I guess I do need some specific examples of CTs embraced by the religious.

I am not pointing out any specific CT. What the studies show is that people that have religious beliefs are more likely to also believe in unsubstantiated CTs in general.

So far our polling pals are not doing very good. What, by the way, do you consider to be an unsubstantiated CT?
Even Christians admit they don't have evidence. That is why they say having faith that their religion is right is important.

Here is how a Christian author describes faith:

"Faith is defined as belief with strong conviction; firm belief in something for which there may be no tangible proof; complete trust, confidence, reliance or devotion. Faith is the opposite of doubt." Source - http://christianity.about.com...
Generally, conspiracy theorists tend to claim to at least have evidence. We're talking a whole different ball-game.


If we took what I consider conspiracy theories involving American government (911/inside job, etc.), from my experience, Christians generally are not the ones who embrace them. particularly when we're talking about conservative Christians who maintain that American government is basically upright. I think it's more common for liberals to concoct CTs specifically when it involves American government. Especially when a republican is in the house.

Please provide sources. I doubt you have any though ;)

For one, it's fairly common knowledge that conservative Christians tend to trust the actions of the American government, particularly in issues concerning war and the fight against terrorism. In fact, that's been a major criticism against Christianity for quite some time. I can look for websites showing this if you really need it.

I believe some politicians are stupid but I don't believe in any conspiracy theories regarding the fight against terror.

I'm not really talking about you specifically.
And....what one person might consider a CT, another won't. I personally consider the claims against the ID movement a CT. Obviously you won't.

Sources please.

Isn't there a claim that the ID movement is set on pushing Christianity into public schools? Do I really need to give you sources?

That is substantiated. ID nuts are very clear about their wishes to get their beliefs taught in schools.

I've seen this claim, but have yet to see the proof. I know that you have an obvious strong feeling about it (and those who make the claim), but that doesn't make the claim substantiated. I may think a number of people are nuts, but if I'm going to make any specific claim, I do realize that I need proof.
And let's face it, in terms of paranoia, many liberals and atheists are quite paranoid about religious domination. Look at the whole Cross at Ground Zero conflict where some atheists claim to be experiencing trauma due to the monumentation of a cross representing of course Christianity.

I experienced no trauma. Maybe you should start a poll of how many atheists would be traumatized (I doubt many, if any).
In my reference to trauma, I said some atheists. More specifically, the American Atheists organization.

http://www.patheos.com...

I didn't see anything in there about atheists claiming to be traumatized.
Alright, try this.

Never deterred by logic or the Judeo-Christian heritage of our nation, the American Atheists are now claiming that the display of the 9/11 memorial cross is causing them physical and emotional trauma. They have actually claimed in their lawsuit that the existence of the cross has caused them headaches, indigestion and mental pain. They demand that the museum build them a 17-foot high "A" to honor atheists, or else remove the cross " despite the fact that the museum is a private, not a public, entity.

http://www.religiousfreedomcoalition.org...
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,281
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9/29/2016 3:21:27 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
Yes Matt, conspiracies theories are all false. Nothing to believe. Now go back to sleep and be a good little boy. All is well. Everything you read was just a lie. Everything the government says is always the truth.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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9/29/2016 3:24:22 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/29/2016 3:21:27 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
Yes Matt, conspiracies theories are all false. Nothing to believe. Now go back to sleep and be a good little boy. All is well. Everything you read was just a lie. Everything the government says is always the truth.

Well, to be fair, it wouldn't be a "theory" if it were fact, it would straight up be a conspiracy, so...
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
MasonicSlayer
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9/29/2016 3:32:53 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/29/2016 3:24:22 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 9/29/2016 3:21:27 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
Yes Matt, conspiracies theories are all false. Nothing to believe. Now go back to sleep and be a good little boy. All is well. Everything you read was just a lie. Everything the government says is always the truth.

Well, to be fair, it wouldn't be a "theory" if it were fact, it would straight up be a conspiracy, so...

Have you ever had your life threatened for telling the truth? If not, then maybe you don't know what the truth is. Okay. Straight up conspiracies. The world is full of conspiracies.
PureX
Posts: 1,514
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10/5/2016 2:42:51 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 9/24/2016 3:31:13 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I had a hunch that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories because they maintain a belief in spite of the evidence to the contrary. I googled it and discovered it has been found that people that are religious are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

"In the current"issue of"American Journal of Political Science"(October 2014), two researchers from the University of Chicago, J. Eric Oliver and Thomas J. Wood, published a study titled, "Conspiracy Theories and the Paranoid Style(s) of Mass Opinion." The pair used data from four surveys from"Cooperative Congressional Election Studies"that asked respondents to respond to statements"about their beliefs in various conspiracy theories."

"In other words, over half of Americans believe in a conspiracy theory, even when insufficient evidence to support that belief exists. The researchers then"use a host of variables to determine conspiracism predictors. These suggest something rather interesting about certain religious people."

It goes on to explain how they concluded religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

"This is not to say merely that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories. The study and its sources suggest a natural psychological phenomenon that is responsible for both beliefs in supernatural agencies as well as unseen actors behind major events. In other words, instead of the two being causally linked, the two are linked by a shared cause, an evolutionary predisposition to draw any conclusion we can in order to protect ourselves from danger. "

https://atheistpapers.com...

It seems to me that religions basically are conspiracy theories.

This is the problem that occurs when a religious doctrine presents willful ignorance as "faith". Willful ignorance is not faith, it's pretense. And it's dishonest.

But sadly, we will never be able to convince those who have accepted the lie that willful ignorance is faith because they will ignore all reason and explanation counter to their false belief. This is one of those dishonest ideals that is self-protecting. And therefor relatively impervious to the truth.
matt8800
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10/6/2016 1:40:29 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/5/2016 2:42:51 PM, PureX wrote:
At 9/24/2016 3:31:13 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I had a hunch that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories because they maintain a belief in spite of the evidence to the contrary. I googled it and discovered it has been found that people that are religious are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

"In the current"issue of"American Journal of Political Science"(October 2014), two researchers from the University of Chicago, J. Eric Oliver and Thomas J. Wood, published a study titled, "Conspiracy Theories and the Paranoid Style(s) of Mass Opinion." The pair used data from four surveys from"Cooperative Congressional Election Studies"that asked respondents to respond to statements"about their beliefs in various conspiracy theories."

"In other words, over half of Americans believe in a conspiracy theory, even when insufficient evidence to support that belief exists. The researchers then"use a host of variables to determine conspiracism predictors. These suggest something rather interesting about certain religious people."

It goes on to explain how they concluded religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

"This is not to say merely that religious people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories. The study and its sources suggest a natural psychological phenomenon that is responsible for both beliefs in supernatural agencies as well as unseen actors behind major events. In other words, instead of the two being causally linked, the two are linked by a shared cause, an evolutionary predisposition to draw any conclusion we can in order to protect ourselves from danger. "

https://atheistpapers.com...

It seems to me that religions basically are conspiracy theories.

This is the problem that occurs when a religious doctrine presents willful ignorance as "faith". Willful ignorance is not faith, it's pretense. And it's dishonest.

But sadly, we will never be able to convince those who have accepted the lie that willful ignorance is faith because they will ignore all reason and explanation counter to their false belief. This is one of those dishonest ideals that is self-protecting. And therefor relatively impervious to the truth.

If faith in a religious doctrine isn't willful ignorance, than what is it?
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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10/6/2016 5:19:51 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 9/29/2016 3:32:53 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:

Have you ever had your life threatened for telling the truth?
That would depend on which astral plain you are referring too.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Bennett91
Posts: 4,193
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10/6/2016 6:21:50 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
Not that I'm defending uncung but I have a few words ...

At 9/24/2016 4:04:50 AM, matt8800 wrote:

If they are proven to be true, they are no longer conspiracy theories.

If proven true they'd be called 'conspiracy fact' - but the word conspiracy itself illicits a notion of an unprovable cabal. And even if true, like the plot to over throw FDR, its still not widely known.

What the average person considers to be proof and what a scientist or judge would consider proof are two different things, however.

The standard for a guilt in a court room relies on 12 average people. For a scientist they often refuse to admit they've proved anything lest another 'prove' their proof wrong. In many papers they'll say 'more research needed'.
PureX
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10/6/2016 1:08:03 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 1:40:29 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 10/5/2016 2:42:51 PM, PureX wrote:
This is the problem that occurs when a religious doctrine presents willful ignorance as "faith". Willful ignorance is not faith, it's pretense. And it's dishonest.

But sadly, we will never be able to convince those who have accepted the lie that willful ignorance is faith because they will ignore all reason and explanation counter to their false belief. This is one of those dishonest ideals that is self-protecting. And therefor relatively impervious to the truth.

If faith in a religious doctrine isn't willful ignorance, than what is it?

It depends on the doctrine. If you are dismissing all religious doctrine as being equally misleading, dishonest, and useless than aren't YOU the one being willfully ignorant?

For example, the basic conceptual ideal of Christianity is that if we will allow the love, forgiveness, kindness and generosity the God's Divine Spirit to manifest within us, and to be expressed toward others, it will heal us and save is from ourselves. And it will help others to be similarly healed.

This is not a willfully ignorant ideology. It's a very real and reasonable proposition that anyone can test, by doing. And having done so, will find to be both true and positively useful in their lives, and in the lives of others.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,560
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10/6/2016 1:37:13 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 1:08:03 PM, PureX wrote:
At 10/6/2016 1:40:29 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 10/5/2016 2:42:51 PM, PureX wrote:
This is the problem that occurs when a religious doctrine presents willful ignorance as "faith". Willful ignorance is not faith, it's pretense. And it's dishonest.

But sadly, we will never be able to convince those who have accepted the lie that willful ignorance is faith because they will ignore all reason and explanation counter to their false belief. This is one of those dishonest ideals that is self-protecting. And therefor relatively impervious to the truth.

If faith in a religious doctrine isn't willful ignorance, than what is it?

It depends on the doctrine. If you are dismissing all religious doctrine as being equally misleading, dishonest, and useless than aren't YOU the one being willfully ignorant?

For example, the basic conceptual ideal of Christianity is that if we will allow the love, forgiveness, kindness and generosity the God's Divine Spirit to manifest within us, and to be expressed toward others, it will heal us and save is from ourselves. And it will help others to be similarly healed.

This is not a willfully ignorant ideology. It's a very real and reasonable proposition that anyone can test, by doing. And having done so, will find to be both true and positively useful in their lives, and in the lives of others.

Christians have had 20 centuries to put that into practice, but it never worked simply because there is a lot of contradiction within Christianity that doesn't follow that conceptual ideal.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
PureX
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10/6/2016 2:30:34 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 1:37:13 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/6/2016 1:08:03 PM, PureX wrote:
At 10/6/2016 1:40:29 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 10/5/2016 2:42:51 PM, PureX wrote:
This is the problem that occurs when a religious doctrine presents willful ignorance as "faith". Willful ignorance is not faith, it's pretense. And it's dishonest.

But sadly, we will never be able to convince those who have accepted the lie that willful ignorance is faith because they will ignore all reason and explanation counter to their false belief. This is one of those dishonest ideals that is self-protecting. And therefor relatively impervious to the truth.

If faith in a religious doctrine isn't willful ignorance, than what is it?

It depends on the doctrine. If you are dismissing all religious doctrine as being equally misleading, dishonest, and useless than aren't YOU the one being willfully ignorant?

For example, the basic conceptual ideal of Christianity is that if we will allow the love, forgiveness, kindness and generosity the God's Divine Spirit to manifest within us, and to be expressed toward others, it will heal us and save is from ourselves. And it will help others to be similarly healed.

This is not a willfully ignorant ideology. It's a very real and reasonable proposition that anyone can test, by doing. And having done so, will find to be both true and positively useful in their lives, and in the lives of others.

Christians have had 20 centuries to put that into practice, but it never worked simply because there is a lot of contradiction within Christianity that doesn't follow that conceptual ideal.

Yet billions of Christians throughout the centuries have managed to recognized this ideal through the haze of religious authoritarianism and put it into practice, and are still doing so, today. Which is a very good and positive thing, regardless of your animosity and bias toward all manifestations of religion.
DanneJeRusse
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10/6/2016 2:39:38 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 2:30:34 PM, PureX wrote:
At 10/6/2016 1:37:13 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/6/2016 1:08:03 PM, PureX wrote:
At 10/6/2016 1:40:29 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 10/5/2016 2:42:51 PM, PureX wrote:
This is the problem that occurs when a religious doctrine presents willful ignorance as "faith". Willful ignorance is not faith, it's pretense. And it's dishonest.

But sadly, we will never be able to convince those who have accepted the lie that willful ignorance is faith because they will ignore all reason and explanation counter to their false belief. This is one of those dishonest ideals that is self-protecting. And therefor relatively impervious to the truth.

If faith in a religious doctrine isn't willful ignorance, than what is it?

It depends on the doctrine. If you are dismissing all religious doctrine as being equally misleading, dishonest, and useless than aren't YOU the one being willfully ignorant?

For example, the basic conceptual ideal of Christianity is that if we will allow the love, forgiveness, kindness and generosity the God's Divine Spirit to manifest within us, and to be expressed toward others, it will heal us and save is from ourselves. And it will help others to be similarly healed.

This is not a willfully ignorant ideology. It's a very real and reasonable proposition that anyone can test, by doing. And having done so, will find to be both true and positively useful in their lives, and in the lives of others.

Christians have had 20 centuries to put that into practice, but it never worked simply because there is a lot of contradiction within Christianity that doesn't follow that conceptual ideal.

Yet billions of Christians throughout the centuries have managed to recognized this ideal through the haze of religious authoritarianism and put it into practice, and are still doing so, today. Which is a very good and positive thing, regardless of your animosity and bias toward all manifestations of religion.

Sorry, but there is more evidence to support the harm Christianity has caused to billions throughout the centuries than any good. Today, we see Christianity shrinking as it implodes on itself due to the negative aspects of the religion. Theological authoritarianism is being replaced with secularism in societies, which provides less negative aspects than religions.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth