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Are there any atheists

DanneJeRusse
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9/25/2016 8:58:28 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 8:45:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Who dont believe in evolution?

I would think that the understanding, hence the acceptance of evolution is tantamount to answering that question as opposed to ones personal ideologies or lack thereof.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
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janesix
Posts: 3,491
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9/25/2016 9:05:19 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 8:58:28 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/25/2016 8:45:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Who dont believe in evolution?

I would think that the understanding, hence the acceptance of evolution is tantamount to answering that question as opposed to ones personal ideologies or lack thereof.

I would think a fair majority of atheists don't have an understanding of evolution and yet still believe in it. As a default position.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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9/25/2016 10:17:33 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 8:45:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Who dont believe in evolution?

Yes there is. Being an atheist does not mean you believe in evolution. Many (but not all) atheists believing in evolution is simply because it is supported by significant scientific evidence.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Skeptical1
Posts: 698
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9/25/2016 10:26:40 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 9:05:19 PM, janesix wrote:
At 9/25/2016 8:58:28 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/25/2016 8:45:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Who dont believe in evolution?

I would think that the understanding, hence the acceptance of evolution is tantamount to answering that question as opposed to ones personal ideologies or lack thereof.

I would think a fair majority of atheists don't have an understanding of evolution and yet still believe in it. As a default position.

That may well be true, but is it something that should concern us? I don't have much more than a high school understanding of gravity, but I still believe in it. I think most atheists - whether they have studied in detail the science behind evolution or not, know enough to realise that the evidence for it outweighs the claims for any alternative explanation.
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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9/25/2016 11:11:00 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 10:17:33 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 8:45:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Who dont believe in evolution?

Yes there is. Being an atheist does not mean you believe in evolution. Many (but not all) atheists believing in evolution is simply because it is supported by significant scientific evidence.
Name one.
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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9/25/2016 11:14:48 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 10:26:40 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 9:05:19 PM, janesix wrote:
At 9/25/2016 8:58:28 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/25/2016 8:45:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Who dont believe in evolution?

I would think that the understanding, hence the acceptance of evolution is tantamount to answering that question as opposed to ones personal ideologies or lack thereof.

I would think a fair majority of atheists don't have an understanding of evolution and yet still believe in it. As a default position.

That may well be true, but is it something that should concern us? I don't have much more than a high school understanding of gravity, but I still believe in it. I think most atheists - whether they have studied in detail the science behind evolution or not, know enough to realise that the evidence for it outweighs the claims for any alternative explanation.

I doubt the majority have even thought about it at all. Most people are uninterested in science. Yet they believe withought thought, because it is the consensus belief. It is no different that religious belief.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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9/25/2016 11:17:03 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 11:11:00 PM, janesix wrote:
At 9/25/2016 10:17:33 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 8:45:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Who dont believe in evolution?

Yes there is. Being an atheist does not mean you believe in evolution. Many (but not all) atheists believing in evolution is simply because it is supported by significant scientific evidence.
Name one.

Thomas Nagel.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
distraff
Posts: 1,005
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9/25/2016 11:28:50 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 8:45:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Who dont believe in evolution?

8% of atheists. 2% believe God designed life which is a huge contradiction to being atheists which means they don't really understand what atheism is. 5% believe that life existed in its present form forever. Less than 1% don't know if evolution is true.

Another 1% believe in evolution but don't know how it happened so they don't believe in the theory of evolution itself which does have a mechanism.

http://www.pewforum.org...
Skeptical1
Posts: 698
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9/25/2016 11:43:53 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 11:28:50 PM, distraff wrote:
At 9/25/2016 8:45:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Who dont believe in evolution?

8% of atheists. 2% believe God designed life which is a huge contradiction to being atheists which means they don't really understand what atheism is. 5% believe that life existed in its present form forever. Less than 1% don't know if evolution is true.

Another 1% believe in evolution but don't know how it happened so they don't believe in the theory of evolution itself which does have a mechanism.

http://www.pewforum.org...

Hmmm... atheists who believe in God? Surely there's a problem with the survey instrument. "Q: Are you a theist?"

I suppose it just goes to show that theists don't have a monopoly on confusion. 5% believing that life existed in its present form forever is better than 50% believing it came about by magic.
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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9/25/2016 11:57:49 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 11:17:03 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 11:11:00 PM, janesix wrote:
At 9/25/2016 10:17:33 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 8:45:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Who dont believe in evolution?

Yes there is. Being an atheist does not mean you believe in evolution. Many (but not all) atheists believing in evolution is simply because it is supported by significant scientific evidence.
Name one.

Thomas Nagel.

Thanks chloe. I was intrigued so i bought his book "Mind and Cosmos" for under 20 bucks on amazon. Luckily it was under 20 because that is my limit for books because i am on a fixed income.
distraff
Posts: 1,005
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9/26/2016 12:09:53 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 11:43:53 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 11:28:50 PM, distraff wrote:
At 9/25/2016 8:45:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Who dont believe in evolution?

8% of atheists. 2% believe God designed life which is a huge contradiction to being atheists which means they don't really understand what atheism is. 5% believe that life existed in its present form forever. Less than 1% don't know if evolution is true.

Another 1% believe in evolution but don't know how it happened so they don't believe in the theory of evolution itself which does have a mechanism.

http://www.pewforum.org...

Hmmm... atheists who believe in God? Surely there's a problem with the survey instrument. "Q: Are you a theist?"

I suppose it just goes to show that theists don't have a monopoly on confusion. 5% believing that life existed in its present form forever is better than 50% believing it came about by magic.

There is always a very small percentage of people who don't give rational answers to a pollster. You can just remove their answers.

For clarification the answers are:
91% naturalistic evolution
2% theistic evolution
1% evolution for unknown reason
5% always existed in present form
1% don't know

The existed in present form answer is actually the creationist answer since that means evolution didn't happen and since they were created they have not evolved. However to an atheist that answer can mean something different, like that the earth and the universe have always existed and life has always existed the way it does.

I looked at belief in evolution in other groups:
Christian:
21% natural evolution, 29% theistic evolution, 42% existed in present form.
Evangelicals:
11% natural evolution, 25% theistic evolution, 57% existed in present form.
Catholics:
31% natural evolution, 31% theistic evolution, 29% existed in present form.
Non-religious:
63% natural evolution, 14% theistic evolution, 15% existed in present form.
Agnostics:
83% natural evolution, 8% theistic evolution, 3% existed in present form.
Atheists:
91% natural evolution, 2% theistic evolution, 5% existed in present form.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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9/26/2016 12:21:19 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 11:57:49 PM, janesix wrote:
At 9/25/2016 11:17:03 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 11:11:00 PM, janesix wrote:
At 9/25/2016 10:17:33 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 8:45:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Who dont believe in evolution?

Yes there is. Being an atheist does not mean you believe in evolution. Many (but not all) atheists believing in evolution is simply because it is supported by significant scientific evidence.
Name one.

Thomas Nagel.

Thanks chloe. I was intrigued so i bought his book "Mind and Cosmos" for under 20 bucks on amazon. Luckily it was under 20 because that is my limit for books because i am on a fixed income.

No problem. Hopefully this shows you that atheism does not neccessarily mean someone thinks the theory of evolution is true. Hope you enjoy the book. It will surely offer a unique perspective on things.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Skeptical1
Posts: 698
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9/26/2016 12:21:32 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 12:09:53 AM, distraff wrote:
At 9/25/2016 11:43:53 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 11:28:50 PM, distraff wrote:
At 9/25/2016 8:45:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Who dont believe in evolution?

8% of atheists. 2% believe God designed life which is a huge contradiction to being atheists which means they don't really understand what atheism is. 5% believe that life existed in its present form forever. Less than 1% don't know if evolution is true.

Another 1% believe in evolution but don't know how it happened so they don't believe in the theory of evolution itself which does have a mechanism.

http://www.pewforum.org...

Hmmm... atheists who believe in God? Surely there's a problem with the survey instrument. "Q: Are you a theist?"

I suppose it just goes to show that theists don't have a monopoly on confusion. 5% believing that life existed in its present form forever is better than 50% believing it came about by magic.

There is always a very small percentage of people who don't give rational answers to a pollster. You can just remove their answers.

For clarification the answers are:
91% naturalistic evolution
2% theistic evolution
1% evolution for unknown reason
5% always existed in present form
1% don't know

The existed in present form answer is actually the creationist answer since that means evolution didn't happen and since they were created they have not evolved. However to an atheist that answer can mean something different, like that the earth and the universe have always existed and life has always existed the way it does.

I looked at belief in evolution in other groups:
Christian:
21% natural evolution, 29% theistic evolution, 42% existed in present form.
Evangelicals:
11% natural evolution, 25% theistic evolution, 57% existed in present form.
Catholics:
31% natural evolution, 31% theistic evolution, 29% existed in present form.
Non-religious:
63% natural evolution, 14% theistic evolution, 15% existed in present form.
Agnostics:
83% natural evolution, 8% theistic evolution, 3% existed in present form.
Atheists:
91% natural evolution, 2% theistic evolution, 5% existed in present form.

Those figures sound similar to what I've heard before, though yours break it down to a greater extent. I tend to think the "always existed in present form" is a poor option to offer, as it is ambiguous, as you've pointed out.

Also, I find the fact that "Christian", "evangelical" and "Catholic" are considered separate groups interesting - I would not be surprised if the evangelicals and Catholics took umbrage at that. They would at least consider themselves subsets of "Christian", if not exclusive members of that set.

Finally, I'm curious as to what, from the Christian point of view, the difference would be between "naturalistic evolution" and "theistic evolution". Is the latter some form of creationism where complete species suddenly appear, but at different times in history, rather than over a period of six days?
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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9/26/2016 12:55:58 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 9:05:19 PM, janesix wrote:
At 9/25/2016 8:58:28 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/25/2016 8:45:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Who dont believe in evolution?

I would think that the understanding, hence the acceptance of evolution is tantamount to answering that question as opposed to ones personal ideologies or lack thereof.

I would think a fair majority of atheists don't have an understanding of evolution and yet still believe in it. As a default position.

I totally agree. In fact, I think a fair portion of persons in general seem to to believe or reject things of which they have little knowledge and to which they have committed little deep thought. It's almost as if we live in a world of lemmings today.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,136
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9/26/2016 5:33:18 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 8:45:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Who dont believe in evolution?

Wylted (when he was still an atheist) didn't accept evolution.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
keithprosser
Posts: 2,084
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9/26/2016 7:11:07 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
It seems to me that nagels apparent dis-satisfaction with neo-Darwinist materialism is that it can't account for consciousness.
As a philosopher of mind, nagel is not interested in the evolution of body forms, or disease resistance or even brains and says little or nothing about such things. He takes issue not with evolution per se but with monist materialism as inadequate to explain the mind, on which he has always taken a dualistic position.
Dualists such as nahel believe mind is a different 'order' of stuff from the physical matter that science deals with. As such mind stuff is not subject to physical laws, it does not mutate or get subjected to natural selection. It cam, however, influence primary matter (how is never made clear by dualists), even to the extent of having a teleological effects.
Dualism is a 'solution' of the mind/body problem that appeals to some, but to many more it is semi-mystical hokum.
I don't think nagel thinks, or makes a case, that neo-Darwinism is wrong (still less that creationism/Id is right). His position is that if mind is dualistic neo-Darwinism can't explain it. Any more than that is 3rd party politicking.
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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9/26/2016 8:55:05 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 8:45:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Who dont believe in evolution?

i'm an atheist, and i don't believe in evolution.
i don't believe in evolution, because science doesn't require belief.
science can be tested and or demonstrated to be true.
however i do accept evolution to be true, because of the evidence i've seen for evolution.
if evolution was proven to be false, then my opinion on evolution would adapt to the new information.
Willows
Posts: 2,084
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9/26/2016 11:33:49 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 11:14:48 PM, janesix wrote:
At 9/25/2016 10:26:40 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 9:05:19 PM, janesix wrote:
At 9/25/2016 8:58:28 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/25/2016 8:45:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Who dont believe in evolution?

I would think that the understanding, hence the acceptance of evolution is tantamount to answering that question as opposed to ones personal ideologies or lack thereof.

I would think a fair majority of atheists don't have an understanding of evolution and yet still believe in it. As a default position.

That may well be true, but is it something that should concern us? I don't have much more than a high school understanding of gravity, but I still believe in it. I think most atheists - whether they have studied in detail the science behind evolution or not, know enough to realise that the evidence for it outweighs the claims for any alternative explanation.

I doubt the majority have even thought about it at all. Most people are uninterested in science. Yet they believe withought thought, because it is the consensus belief. It is no different that religious belief.

The difference is that some atheists are ignorant however, all theists are ignorant.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,674
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9/26/2016 12:21:37 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 11:28:50 PM, distraff wrote:
At 9/25/2016 8:45:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Who dont believe in evolution?

8% of atheists. 2% believe God designed life which is a huge contradiction to being atheists which means they don't really understand what atheism is.

I found that to be strange when I first saw this, too, so I looked at the questions. Apparently, the questions couple God with a kind of central "spirituality" (I don't remember the exact wording), and the latter can qualify an atheist quite easily. I wish they expressed this more clearly in the final reports.
PureX
Posts: 1,533
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9/26/2016 12:36:28 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
A lot of atheists treat scientific theory the same way religious fundamentalists treat the Bible. They imagine science to be the fountainhead of all knowledge and truth. While they remain just as willfully ignorant and logically absurd as the religious fundamentalists that they are constantly opposing.

Materialism is becoming the "new religion" of the ignoramus class. As they reject religion for science and then treat science like a religion.
Skeptical1
Posts: 698
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9/26/2016 1:04:59 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 12:36:28 PM, PureX wrote:
A lot of atheists treat scientific theory the same way religious fundamentalists treat the Bible. They imagine science to be the fountainhead of all knowledge and truth. While they remain just as willfully ignorant and logically absurd as the religious fundamentalists that they are constantly opposing.

Materialism is becoming the "new religion" of the ignoramus class. As they reject religion for science and then treat science like a religion.

We appear to agree on a fair bit, especially your last sentence. I just want to point out that adopting an appreciation for science doesn't at all necessarily equate with a materialistic attitude. In fact, the opposite is very often the case.
PureX
Posts: 1,533
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9/26/2016 6:31:58 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 1:04:59 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:36:28 PM, PureX wrote:
A lot of atheists treat scientific theory the same way religious fundamentalists treat the Bible. They imagine science to be the fountainhead of all knowledge and truth. While they remain just as willfully ignorant and logically absurd as the religious fundamentalists that they are constantly opposing.

Materialism is becoming the "new religion" of the ignoramus class. As they reject religion for science and then treat science like a religion.

We appear to agree on a fair bit, especially your last sentence. I just want to point out that adopting an appreciation for science doesn't at all necessarily equate with a materialistic attitude. In fact, the opposite is very often the case.

We agree, here, as well. I think humanity's recognition of scientific theory and practice has been a great leap forward in our intellectual progress. And I embrace it myself in many ways.

But I do despair at the near total lack of understanding and appreciation among these "atheists" of the other main categories of human thought, practice, and existential investigation: philosophy, art, and religion. It seems that in their near blinding worship of science as the fountainhead of all truth and wisdom they have completely ignored the other means by which we humans have been making sense of our existence from the beginning of our time on Earth. And through which we are still able to investigate our experience of being in ways that science cannot. It bespeaks an ego-centric ignorance on par with the same religious fundamentalists that they are forever so fervently opposing. Much like the proverbial black pot condemning the proverbial black kettle for maintaining the deeply loathed condition of it's blackness, while doing the exactly that, itself.
distraff
Posts: 1,005
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9/26/2016 9:01:35 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 12:21:32 AM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:09:53 AM, distraff wrote:
At 9/25/2016 11:43:53 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 11:28:50 PM, distraff wrote:
At 9/25/2016 8:45:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Who dont believe in evolution?

8% of atheists. 2% believe God designed life which is a huge contradiction to being atheists which means they don't really understand what atheism is. 5% believe that life existed in its present form forever. Less than 1% don't know if evolution is true.

Another 1% believe in evolution but don't know how it happened so they don't believe in the theory of evolution itself which does have a mechanism.

http://www.pewforum.org...

Hmmm... atheists who believe in God? Surely there's a problem with the survey instrument. "Q: Are you a theist?"

I suppose it just goes to show that theists don't have a monopoly on confusion. 5% believing that life existed in its present form forever is better than 50% believing it came about by magic.

There is always a very small percentage of people who don't give rational answers to a pollster. You can just remove their answers.

For clarification the answers are:
91% naturalistic evolution
2% theistic evolution
1% evolution for unknown reason
5% always existed in present form
1% don't know

The existed in present form answer is actually the creationist answer since that means evolution didn't happen and since they were created they have not evolved. However to an atheist that answer can mean something different, like that the earth and the universe have always existed and life has always existed the way it does.

I looked at belief in evolution in other groups:
Christian:
21% natural evolution, 29% theistic evolution, 42% existed in present form.
Evangelicals:
11% natural evolution, 25% theistic evolution, 57% existed in present form.
Catholics:
31% natural evolution, 31% theistic evolution, 29% existed in present form.
Non-religious:
63% natural evolution, 14% theistic evolution, 15% existed in present form.
Agnostics:
83% natural evolution, 8% theistic evolution, 3% existed in present form.
Atheists:
91% natural evolution, 2% theistic evolution, 5% existed in present form.

Those figures sound similar to what I've heard before, though yours break it down to a greater extent. I tend to think the "always existed in present form" is a poor option to offer, as it is ambiguous, as you've pointed out.

Also, I find the fact that "Christian", "evangelical" and "Catholic" are considered separate groups interesting - I would not be surprised if the evangelicals and Catholics took umbrage at that. They would at least consider themselves subsets of "Christian", if not exclusive members of that set.

Finally, I'm curious as to what, from the Christian point of view, the difference would be between "naturalistic evolution" and "theistic evolution". Is the latter some form of creationism where complete species suddenly appear, but at different times in history, rather than over a period of six days?

The difference between them is whether God guided evolution or allowed evolution to happen all by itself. Obviously there is no evidence that God guided evolution and people only believe it in order to make evolution work with their belief that God created us.
distraff
Posts: 1,005
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9/26/2016 9:04:59 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 12:21:37 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 9/25/2016 11:28:50 PM, distraff wrote:
At 9/25/2016 8:45:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Who dont believe in evolution?

8% of atheists. 2% believe God designed life which is a huge contradiction to being atheists which means they don't really understand what atheism is.

I found that to be strange when I first saw this, too, so I looked at the questions. Apparently, the questions couple God with a kind of central "spirituality" (I don't remember the exact wording), and the latter can qualify an atheist quite easily. I wish they expressed this more clearly in the final reports.

The reason they do this is so that people who believe in a central spirituality but not God aren't considered to be atheists. I would just ask people if they are an atheist or not.
distraff
Posts: 1,005
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9/26/2016 9:07:47 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 12:36:28 PM, PureX wrote:
A lot of atheists treat scientific theory the same way religious fundamentalists treat the Bible. They imagine science to be the fountainhead of all knowledge and truth. While they remain just as willfully ignorant and logically absurd as the religious fundamentalists that they are constantly opposing.

Materialism is becoming the "new religion" of the ignoramus class. As they reject religion for science and then treat science like a religion.

That is not my experience. Most atheists believe in science as the best but still imperfect method of obtaining knowledge of the natural world. They don't believe in supernatural explanations because there is no evidence for them. They believe in scientific theories only in so far as they have evidence.

If there are atheists who just have blind faith in scientific theories without the need for evidence I certainly agree that they are very very wrong.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,674
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9/26/2016 9:09:17 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 9:04:59 PM, distraff wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:21:37 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 9/25/2016 11:28:50 PM, distraff wrote:
At 9/25/2016 8:45:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Who dont believe in evolution?

8% of atheists. 2% believe God designed life which is a huge contradiction to being atheists which means they don't really understand what atheism is.

I found that to be strange when I first saw this, too, so I looked at the questions. Apparently, the questions couple God with a kind of central "spirituality" (I don't remember the exact wording), and the latter can qualify an atheist quite easily. I wish they expressed this more clearly in the final reports.

The reason they do this is so that people who believe in a central spirituality but not God aren't considered to be atheists. I would just ask people if they are an atheist or not.

Given the inconsistent understanding of the word, "atheist", and not to mention the stigma attached to it, I wouldn't use the word in a question because it confers that inconsistency onto the results. I would have just asked "do you have a belief that God exists?" and then used an established definition of atheist to categorize the results.
distraff
Posts: 1,005
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9/26/2016 9:11:27 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 9:09:17 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 9/26/2016 9:04:59 PM, distraff wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:21:37 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 9/25/2016 11:28:50 PM, distraff wrote:
At 9/25/2016 8:45:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Who dont believe in evolution?

8% of atheists. 2% believe God designed life which is a huge contradiction to being atheists which means they don't really understand what atheism is.

I found that to be strange when I first saw this, too, so I looked at the questions. Apparently, the questions couple God with a kind of central "spirituality" (I don't remember the exact wording), and the latter can qualify an atheist quite easily. I wish they expressed this more clearly in the final reports.

The reason they do this is so that people who believe in a central spirituality but not God aren't considered to be atheists. I would just ask people if they are an atheist or not.

Given the inconsistent understanding of the word, "atheist", and not to mention the stigma attached to it, I wouldn't use the word in a question because it confers that inconsistency onto the results. I would have just asked "do you have a belief that God exists?" and then used an established definition of atheist to categorize the results.

That sounds like a good way to go.
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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9/26/2016 11:26:06 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
i was completely disinterested in religion till 12.
once i examined the subject, i realized i didn't believe in a god... and i believed in evolution
for 28 years, i did not believe in god, and i believed in evolution.
life has taught me there is something greater than our logic and reason in this universe, which we can't define (and please, don't bring up the 3rd thermo or quantum mechanics, string theory, or multiverses as i am very well versed in those and ascribe to much of what is currently theorized) which i have since to call God... and i believe in evolution.

the more i study the Christ, the more i think he, and his teachings (not what people write about him or what people do in his name) are pretty fvcking awesome... and i believe in evolution.

in short, i don't find a belief in God, gods, or the fvcking flying spaghetti monster mutually exclusive to that which we have a preponderance of evidence scientifically.

Now, fundamentalist religious folks and fundamentalist atheists that feel a need to argue with that, 2 words; fvck off. Both of you are flip sides of the same coin... close minded and self righteous.
PureX
Posts: 1,533
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9/27/2016 12:37:54 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 9:07:47 PM, distraff wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:36:28 PM, PureX wrote:
A lot of atheists treat scientific theory the same way religious fundamentalists treat the Bible. They imagine science to be the fountainhead of all knowledge and truth. While they remain just as willfully ignorant and logically absurd as the religious fundamentalists that they are constantly opposing.

Materialism is becoming the "new religion" of the ignoramus class. As they reject religion for science and then treat science like a religion.

That is not my experience. Most atheists believe in science as the best but still imperfect method of obtaining knowledge of the natural world. They don't believe in supernatural explanations because there is no evidence for them. They believe in scientific theories only in so far as they have evidence.

If there are atheists who just have blind faith in scientific theories without the need for evidence I certainly agree that they are very very wrong.

You've missed the point, which, sadly, tends to validate it.

Thinking that 'objective physical evidence' is the only valid means of establishing wisdom or truth is exactly the kind of ignorance I was referring to. It's just blind materialism: treating existence as if it were a purely physical phenomenon. When in fact existence is being expressed via several transcendent realms, and those are just the ones we are aware of. And we humans have been exploring these various transcendent realms of existence (physics, life, and consciousness) throughout human history via a whole set of disciplines, including philosophy, art, and religion. Science is a great tool. But it's not the only tool. Because there is more to existence than it's physicality.