Total Posts:111|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

People you love and care about

Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 12:11:49 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
If you are a believer in Christianity how do you deal with the thought that your god may send people you love and care about to a place of unimaginable eternal torment for something as trivial as not believing in the existence of this god due to the lack of evidence of it's existence despite otherwise being a good person?

Your best friend?
Your husband?
Your wife?
Your parent?
Your child?

Maybe they tell you they are a Christian to please you and to fit in but in reality they don't actually believe said religion?

If you make it to heaven how will you deal with knowing someone so close to you in this life is being tortured for eternity?

How in any circumstances can eternal torment be justified?

Any god that imposes it is evil.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 1:19:24 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 12:11:49 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If you are a believer in Christianity how do you deal with the thought that your god may send people you love and care about to a place of unimaginable eternal torment for something as trivial as not believing in the existence of this god due to the lack of evidence of it's existence despite otherwise being a good person?

Your best friend?
Your husband?
Your wife?
Your parent?
Your child?

Maybe they tell you they are a Christian to please you and to fit in but in reality they don't actually believe said religion?

If you make it to heaven how will you deal with knowing someone so close to you in this life is being tortured for eternity?

How in any circumstances can eternal torment be justified?

Any god that imposes it is evil.

A very good post, and while I do not consider myself a member of any religion, this is a question to which I have given much thought. If there exists an ultimate being in creation then all I can fathom is that he/she/it gives large or total freedom of action to all people and things in this world, perhaps to test the choices of conscious beings. I will never believe that any Creator (unless very sadistic) would sentence any sentient being to eternal damnation, but perhaps it is possible he might elevate them to a higher state of being if it's so earned. Who knows? . I believe there is something spiritual about life, but I tend to relegate religion to those who would manipulate a person's (or group's) own goodness again them.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 1:43:39 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 12:11:49 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If you are a believer in Christianity how do you deal with the thought that your god may send people you love and care about to a place of unimaginable eternal torment for something as trivial as not believing in the existence of this god due to the lack of evidence of it's existence despite otherwise being a good person?

Your best friend?
Your husband?
Your wife?
Your parent?
Your child?

Maybe they tell you they are a Christian to please you and to fit in but in reality they don't actually believe said religion?

If you make it to heaven how will you deal with knowing someone so close to you in this life is being tortured for eternity?

How in any circumstances can eternal torment be justified?

Any god that imposes it is evil.
The Christian Religion is wrong! Christ himself never supported this ideology.
Matthew 12:32King James Version (KJV)
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Luke 12:10King James Version (KJV)
10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.
Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 1:55:45 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
Christians don't know what happens afterwards, despite what they say.

For a start, discourse on hell in the bible is only ever used with imagery or metaphor. It's not a real place, so you should stop treating it as such. By the use of the term 'second death' it appears that hell refers to the eternal cessation of conscious activity, experienced by those who are separated from God, the source of this life.

Regardless of what you do or don't believe, everyone knows that this is inevitable.
Music composition contest: http://www.debate.org...
Willows
Posts: 2,068
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 12:47:42 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 1:55:45 AM, Smithereens wrote:
Christians don't know what happens afterwards, despite what they say.

For a start, discourse on hell in the bible is only ever used with imagery or metaphor. It's not a real place, so you should stop treating it as such. By the use of the term 'second death' it appears that hell refers to the eternal cessation of conscious activity, experienced by those who are separated from God, the source of this life.

Regardless of what you do or don't believe, everyone knows that this is inevitable.

The question is, what is and what isn't imagery and metaphor in the bible?
Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 12:51:35 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 12:47:42 PM, Willows wrote:
At 9/26/2016 1:55:45 AM, Smithereens wrote:
Christians don't know what happens afterwards, despite what they say.

For a start, discourse on hell in the bible is only ever used with imagery or metaphor. It's not a real place, so you should stop treating it as such. By the use of the term 'second death' it appears that hell refers to the eternal cessation of conscious activity, experienced by those who are separated from God, the source of this life.

Regardless of what you do or don't believe, everyone knows that this is inevitable.

The question is, what is and what isn't imagery and metaphor in the bible?

Take it on a case by case basis. The gospels for instance appear to record history from living memory. Anecdotal records are generally intended to be completely literal. Talk about hell is abstract however, what with fire, worms that don't die and gnashing of teeth when it's known that none of those exist after death.
Music composition contest: http://www.debate.org...
Skeptical1
Posts: 697
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 1:19:34 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 12:51:35 PM, Smithereens wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:47:42 PM, Willows wrote:
At 9/26/2016 1:55:45 AM, Smithereens wrote:
Christians don't know what happens afterwards, despite what they say.

For a start, discourse on hell in the bible is only ever used with imagery or metaphor. It's not a real place, so you should stop treating it as such. By the use of the term 'second death' it appears that hell refers to the eternal cessation of conscious activity, experienced by those who are separated from God, the source of this life.

Regardless of what you do or don't believe, everyone knows that this is inevitable.

The question is, what is and what isn't imagery and metaphor in the bible?

Take it on a case by case basis. The gospels for instance appear to record history from living memory. Anecdotal records are generally intended to be completely literal. Talk about hell is abstract however, what with fire, worms that don't die and gnashing of teeth when it's known that none of those exist after death.

Of course I don't believe in any of the things you just mentioned, although I'm not sure how you can say it's "known" they don't exist, when literally hundreds of millions believe they do.

Although it doesn't constitute "proof" in any formal (or even informal) sense, I think this argument is one of the most compelling against religion - or at least one particular flavour of it. Who wants to believe that the people they care most about in the world would go through anything like that, and furthermore, what sort of sick being would put them through it? Coming from a very fundamentalist Christian background, this belief was more than anything else the thing that caused me to say "no thanks, I'm not buying what you're selling".
Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 1:27:23 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 1:19:34 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:51:35 PM, Smithereens wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:47:42 PM, Willows wrote:
At 9/26/2016 1:55:45 AM, Smithereens wrote:
Christians don't know what happens afterwards, despite what they say.

For a start, discourse on hell in the bible is only ever used with imagery or metaphor. It's not a real place, so you should stop treating it as such. By the use of the term 'second death' it appears that hell refers to the eternal cessation of conscious activity, experienced by those who are separated from God, the source of this life.

Regardless of what you do or don't believe, everyone knows that this is inevitable.

The question is, what is and what isn't imagery and metaphor in the bible?

Take it on a case by case basis. The gospels for instance appear to record history from living memory. Anecdotal records are generally intended to be completely literal. Talk about hell is abstract however, what with fire, worms that don't die and gnashing of teeth when it's known that none of those exist after death.

Of course I don't believe in any of the things you just mentioned, although I'm not sure how you can say it's "known" they don't exist, when literally hundreds of millions believe they do.

Although it doesn't constitute "proof" in any formal (or even informal) sense, I think this argument is one of the most compelling against religion - or at least one particular flavour of it. Who wants to believe that the people they care most about in the world would go through anything like that, and furthermore, what sort of sick being would put them through it? Coming from a very fundamentalist Christian background, this belief was more than anything else the thing that caused me to say "no thanks, I'm not buying what you're selling".

I've never met a christian who believes that hell literally has fire. That's a purely physical chemical reaction. The most common interpretation of hell I've seen is the total cessation of consciousness, or the 'second death' so to speak. Atheists believe much the same thing, they simply don't have a name for it.

Furthermore I see that you've chosen your beliefs based upon emotion. That's fine, but it just doesn't come off as a compelling argument, when you say you don't believe something because it upsets you.
Music composition contest: http://www.debate.org...
Skeptical1
Posts: 697
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 1:37:08 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 1:27:23 PM, Smithereens wrote:
At 9/26/2016 1:19:34 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:51:35 PM, Smithereens wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:47:42 PM, Willows wrote:
At 9/26/2016 1:55:45 AM, Smithereens wrote:
Christians don't know what happens afterwards, despite what they say.

For a start, discourse on hell in the bible is only ever used with imagery or metaphor. It's not a real place, so you should stop treating it as such. By the use of the term 'second death' it appears that hell refers to the eternal cessation of conscious activity, experienced by those who are separated from God, the source of this life.

Regardless of what you do or don't believe, everyone knows that this is inevitable.

The question is, what is and what isn't imagery and metaphor in the bible?

Take it on a case by case basis. The gospels for instance appear to record history from living memory. Anecdotal records are generally intended to be completely literal. Talk about hell is abstract however, what with fire, worms that don't die and gnashing of teeth when it's known that none of those exist after death.

Of course I don't believe in any of the things you just mentioned, although I'm not sure how you can say it's "known" they don't exist, when literally hundreds of millions believe they do.

Although it doesn't constitute "proof" in any formal (or even informal) sense, I think this argument is one of the most compelling against religion - or at least one particular flavour of it. Who wants to believe that the people they care most about in the world would go through anything like that, and furthermore, what sort of sick being would put them through it? Coming from a very fundamentalist Christian background, this belief was more than anything else the thing that caused me to say "no thanks, I'm not buying what you're selling".

I've never met a christian who believes that hell literally has fire. That's a purely physical chemical reaction. The most common interpretation of hell I've seen is the total cessation of consciousness, or the 'second death' so to speak. Atheists believe much the same thing, they simply don't have a name for it.

Trust me, there are plenty who believe exactly those things.


Furthermore I see that you've chosen your beliefs based upon emotion. That's fine, but it just doesn't come off as a compelling argument, when you say you don't believe something because it upsets you.

Oh, there were many aspects which troubled me from an intellectual point of view before that, but it's pretty easy to explain anyway anything when you have invisible, omnipotent, omniscient being to call upon, and a book that says questioning any aspect of belief is evil. And of course, subsequently, my position went from agnostic to atheist as I learned more. But yes, the catalyst to question was an emotional response to being a puppet and plaything, and having to think about those I cared about in that way. The compelling arguments came later. Guilty as charged.
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,008
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 1:47:44 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 12:11:49 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If you are a believer in Christianity how do you deal with the thought that your god may send people you love and care about to a place of unimaginable eternal torment for something as trivial as not believing in the existence of this god due to the lack of evidence of it's existence despite otherwise being a good person?

Your best friend?
Your husband?
Your wife?
Your parent?
Your child?

Maybe they tell you they are a Christian to please you and to fit in but in reality they don't actually believe said religion?

If you make it to heaven how will you deal with knowing someone so close to you in this life is being tortured for eternity?

How in any circumstances can eternal torment be justified?

Any god that imposes it is evil.

First, why do you get to decide what is "trivial"?

Second, anyone in Hell has chosen yo separate themselves from God.

Third, I will take joy knowing that justice has been done.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
Skeptical1
Posts: 697
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 1:59:09 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 1:47:44 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:11:49 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If you are a believer in Christianity how do you deal with the thought that your god may send people you love and care about to a place of unimaginable eternal torment for something as trivial as not believing in the existence of this god due to the lack of evidence of it's existence despite otherwise being a good person?

Your best friend?
Your husband?
Your wife?
Your parent?
Your child?

Maybe they tell you they are a Christian to please you and to fit in but in reality they don't actually believe said religion?

If you make it to heaven how will you deal with knowing someone so close to you in this life is being tortured for eternity?

How in any circumstances can eternal torment be justified?

Any god that imposes it is evil.



First, why do you get to decide what is "trivial"?

Second, anyone in Hell has chosen yo separate themselves from God.

Third, I will take joy knowing that justice has been done.

Smithereens, meet dsjpk5 lol
graceofgod
Posts: 5,101
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 2:20:13 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 12:11:49 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If you are a believer in Christianity how do you deal with the thought that your god may send people you love and care about to a place of unimaginable eternal torment for something as trivial as not believing in the existence of this god due to the lack of evidence of it's existence despite otherwise being a good person?

Your best friend?
Your husband?
Your wife?
Your parent?
Your child?

Maybe they tell you they are a Christian to please you and to fit in but in reality they don't actually believe said religion?

If you make it to heaven how will you deal with knowing someone so close to you in this life is being tortured for eternity?

How in any circumstances can eternal torment be justified?

Any god that imposes it is evil.

every person has to make their own decision where they spend eternity, if you choose for God , you will spend eternity with him, if you do not choose to be with God he will not force you to spend eternity with him...

God does not make anyone go to hell they make a choice..
roun12
Posts: 177
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 2:23:29 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 2:20:13 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:11:49 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If you are a believer in Christianity how do you deal with the thought that your god may send people you love and care about to a place of unimaginable eternal torment for something as trivial as not believing in the existence of this god due to the lack of evidence of it's existence despite otherwise being a good person?

Your best friend?
Your husband?
Your wife?
Your parent?
Your child?

Maybe they tell you they are a Christian to please you and to fit in but in reality they don't actually believe said religion?

If you make it to heaven how will you deal with knowing someone so close to you in this life is being tortured for eternity?

How in any circumstances can eternal torment be justified?

Any god that imposes it is evil.

every person has to make their own decision where they spend eternity, if you choose for God , you will spend eternity with him, if you do not choose to be with God he will not force you to spend eternity with him...

God does not make anyone go to hell they make a choice..

What if I choose to wander around in the aether forever? What if I choose neither heaven nor hell? Does that choice even exist?
"No, I disagree. 'R' is among the most menacing of sounds. That's why they call it MURDER, not Muckduck." - Dwight

"Tell people there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." - George Carlin
graceofgod
Posts: 5,101
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 2:25:12 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 2:23:29 PM, roun12 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 2:20:13 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:11:49 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If you are a believer in Christianity how do you deal with the thought that your god may send people you love and care about to a place of unimaginable eternal torment for something as trivial as not believing in the existence of this god due to the lack of evidence of it's existence despite otherwise being a good person?

Your best friend?
Your husband?
Your wife?
Your parent?
Your child?

Maybe they tell you they are a Christian to please you and to fit in but in reality they don't actually believe said religion?

If you make it to heaven how will you deal with knowing someone so close to you in this life is being tortured for eternity?

How in any circumstances can eternal torment be justified?

Any god that imposes it is evil.

every person has to make their own decision where they spend eternity, if you choose for God , you will spend eternity with him, if you do not choose to be with God he will not force you to spend eternity with him...

God does not make anyone go to hell they make a choice..

What if I choose to wander around in the aether forever? What if I choose neither heaven nor hell? Does that choice even exist?

no it doesn't, you are either for God or against God....
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,008
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 2:53:14 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 1:59:09 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 1:47:44 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:11:49 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If you are a believer in Christianity how do you deal with the thought that your god may send people you love and care about to a place of unimaginable eternal torment for something as trivial as not believing in the existence of this god due to the lack of evidence of it's existence despite otherwise being a good person?

Your best friend?
Your husband?
Your wife?
Your parent?
Your child?

Maybe they tell you they are a Christian to please you and to fit in but in reality they don't actually believe said religion?

If you make it to heaven how will you deal with knowing someone so close to you in this life is being tortured for eternity?

How in any circumstances can eternal torment be justified?

Any god that imposes it is evil.



First, why do you get to decide what is "trivial"?

Second, anyone in Hell has chosen yo separate themselves from God.

Third, I will take joy knowing that justice has been done.

Smithereens, meet dsjpk5 lol

I'm not sure what you are referring to. Please help.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
Skeptical1
Posts: 697
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 3:03:57 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 2:53:14 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 1:59:09 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 1:47:44 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:11:49 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If you are a believer in Christianity how do you deal with the thought that your god may send people you love and care about to a place of unimaginable eternal torment for something as trivial as not believing in the existence of this god due to the lack of evidence of it's existence despite otherwise being a good person?

Your best friend?
Your husband?
Your wife?
Your parent?
Your child?

Maybe they tell you they are a Christian to please you and to fit in but in reality they don't actually believe said religion?

If you make it to heaven how will you deal with knowing someone so close to you in this life is being tortured for eternity?

How in any circumstances can eternal torment be justified?

Any god that imposes it is evil.



First, why do you get to decide what is "trivial"?

Second, anyone in Hell has chosen yo separate themselves from God.

Third, I will take joy knowing that justice has been done.

Smithereens, meet dsjpk5 lol


I'm not sure what you are referring to. Please help.

Smithereens and I were having an exchange here, and she said she'd never met a Christian who held to a literal interpretation of the biblical description of hell. I thought from your comments that perhaps you did. If that's incorrect, I apologise.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 9:04:36 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 1:19:24 AM, Idealist wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:11:49 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If you are a believer in Christianity how do you deal with the thought that your god may send people you love and care about to a place of unimaginable eternal torment for something as trivial as not believing in the existence of this god due to the lack of evidence of it's existence despite otherwise being a good person?

Your best friend?
Your husband?
Your wife?
Your parent?
Your child?

Maybe they tell you they are a Christian to please you and to fit in but in reality they don't actually believe said religion?

If you make it to heaven how will you deal with knowing someone so close to you in this life is being tortured for eternity?

How in any circumstances can eternal torment be justified?

Any god that imposes it is evil.

A very good post, and while I do not consider myself a member of any religion, this is a question to which I have given much thought. If there exists an ultimate being in creation then all I can fathom is that he/she/it gives large or total freedom of action to all people and things in this world, perhaps to test the choices of conscious beings. I will never believe that any Creator (unless very sadistic) would sentence any sentient being to eternal damnation, but perhaps it is possible he might elevate them to a higher state of being if it's so earned. Who knows? . I believe there is something spiritual about life, but I tend to relegate religion to those who would manipulate a person's (or group's) own goodness again them.

I don't believe there is anything spiritual about life. Having said that you otherwise make good points that I agree with.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 9:11:45 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 1:43:39 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:11:49 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If you are a believer in Christianity how do you deal with the thought that your god may send people you love and care about to a place of unimaginable eternal torment for something as trivial as not believing in the existence of this god due to the lack of evidence of it's existence despite otherwise being a good person?

Your best friend?
Your husband?
Your wife?
Your parent?
Your child?

Maybe they tell you they are a Christian to please you and to fit in but in reality they don't actually believe said religion?

If you make it to heaven how will you deal with knowing someone so close to you in this life is being tortured for eternity?

How in any circumstances can eternal torment be justified?

Any god that imposes it is evil.
The Christian Religion is wrong! Christ himself never supported this ideology.
Matthew 12:32King James Version (KJV)
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Luke 12:10King James Version (KJV)
10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

Yes the barbaric religion of Christianity condemns people to eternal torment for saying a bad word about the holy ghost. Other than pointing that out what point are you making here?

I know you have created your own unique religion and your entitled to your views. Having said that I'm here to argue with Christians who believe a holy book that claims people either go to heaven or hell after death. I'm not particularly interested in the modified form of Christianity you believe in but if you want to first demonstrate how you have authority to be selective in terms of which parts of the bible are divinely influenced and which parts are false I would be prepared to engage in this discussion.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 9:30:01 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 1:55:45 AM, Smithereens wrote:
Christians don't know what happens afterwards, despite what they say.

That's true.

For a start, discourse on hell in the bible is only ever used with imagery or metaphor. It's not a real place, so you should stop treating it as such. By the use of the term 'second death' it appears that hell refers to the eternal cessation of conscious activity, experienced by those who are separated from God, the source of this life.

Regardless of what you do or don't believe, everyone knows that this is inevitable.

I know that my death will result in the cessation of conscious activity. Many people however are incapable of acknowledging this certainty they face and delude themselves into thinking it's possible for conscious activity to continue in some form after death.

The bible claims Hell is a literal place:

Luke 16: 22-28

22 . . . the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father"s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

Matthew 12:40

"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly: so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. "

Matthew 10:28, "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

There are literally hundreds of verses backing up my claim.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 9:38:02 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 1:47:44 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:11:49 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If you are a believer in Christianity how do you deal with the thought that your god may send people you love and care about to a place of unimaginable eternal torment for something as trivial as not believing in the existence of this god due to the lack of evidence of it's existence despite otherwise being a good person?

Your best friend?
Your husband?
Your wife?
Your parent?
Your child?

Maybe they tell you they are a Christian to please you and to fit in but in reality they don't actually believe said religion?

If you make it to heaven how will you deal with knowing someone so close to you in this life is being tortured for eternity?

How in any circumstances can eternal torment be justified?

Any god that imposes it is evil.



First, why do you get to decide what is "trivial"?

Because in comparison to being a mass murderer not believing in a religion is a trivial incident as any rational person would understand and accept.

Second, anyone in Hell has chosen yo separate themselves from God.

No one would choose to go to Hell.

Third, I will take joy knowing that justice has been done.

So you would take joy in watching your children burn in flames merely for choosing the wrong religion?

I have to say it, your delusion has made you evil. You are so scared of an imaginary boogeyman you fight any negative thoughts about this boogeyman you are so fearful of.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 9:42:23 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 2:20:13 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:11:49 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If you are a believer in Christianity how do you deal with the thought that your god may send people you love and care about to a place of unimaginable eternal torment for something as trivial as not believing in the existence of this god due to the lack of evidence of it's existence despite otherwise being a good person?

Your best friend?
Your husband?
Your wife?
Your parent?
Your child?

Maybe they tell you they are a Christian to please you and to fit in but in reality they don't actually believe said religion?

If you make it to heaven how will you deal with knowing someone so close to you in this life is being tortured for eternity?

How in any circumstances can eternal torment be justified?

Any god that imposes it is evil.

every person has to make their own decision where they spend eternity, if you choose for God , you will spend eternity with him, if you do not choose to be with God he will not force you to spend eternity with him...

So if Kim Jong-Un chooses he can spend eternity in heaven with God? Despite his actions in this life?

If you are indoctrinated into Islamic culture by the society you live in you face eternal torment in Hell.

God does not make anyone go to hell they make a choice..

No one would choose to go to Hell.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 9:52:20 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 1:27:23 PM, Smithereens wrote:
At 9/26/2016 1:19:34 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:51:35 PM, Smithereens wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:47:42 PM, Willows wrote:
At 9/26/2016 1:55:45 AM, Smithereens wrote:
Christians don't know what happens afterwards, despite what they say.

For a start, discourse on hell in the bible is only ever used with imagery or metaphor. It's not a real place, so you should stop treating it as such. By the use of the term 'second death' it appears that hell refers to the eternal cessation of conscious activity, experienced by those who are separated from God, the source of this life.

Regardless of what you do or don't believe, everyone knows that this is inevitable.

The question is, what is and what isn't imagery and metaphor in the bible?

Take it on a case by case basis. The gospels for instance appear to record history from living memory. Anecdotal records are generally intended to be completely literal. Talk about hell is abstract however, what with fire, worms that don't die and gnashing of teeth when it's known that none of those exist after death.

Of course I don't believe in any of the things you just mentioned, although I'm not sure how you can say it's "known" they don't exist, when literally hundreds of millions believe they do.

Although it doesn't constitute "proof" in any formal (or even informal) sense, I think this argument is one of the most compelling against religion - or at least one particular flavour of it. Who wants to believe that the people they care most about in the world would go through anything like that, and furthermore, what sort of sick being would put them through it? Coming from a very fundamentalist Christian background, this belief was more than anything else the thing that caused me to say "no thanks, I'm not buying what you're selling".

I've never met a christian who believes that hell literally has fire. That's a purely physical chemical reaction. The most common interpretation of hell I've seen is the total cessation of consciousness, or the 'second death' so to speak. Atheists believe much the same thing, they simply don't have a name for it.

That's because people are embarrassed to admit they believe in such an evil thing in real life either due to embarrassment about what others may see as stupidity or or fear of offending other people. Talk of Hell outside of a religious setting is generally considered unacceptable. Having said that online religion forums are a great place for this sort of discussion. Meet DDO members active in this thread dsjk5 and graceofgod who believe Hell is a literal placefot example.

Furthermore I see that you've chosen your beliefs based upon emotion. That's fine, but it just doesn't come off as a compelling argument, when you say you don't believe something because it upsets you.

It's not neccessarily an emotional argument. It is logical to consider how unlikely it would be that an omnipotent god would be evil enough to create something with the purpose of torturing it for eternity as would obviously be the case if it this god was omniscient.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
12_13
Posts: 1,365
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 9:58:59 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 12:11:49 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If you are a believer in Christianity how do you deal with the thought that your god may send people you love and care about to a place of unimaginable eternal torment for something as trivial as not believing in the existence of this god due to the lack of evidence of it's existence despite otherwise being a good person?

I believe what the Bible tells and on basis of it, it is unrighteous people who go to hell and eternal life is gift for righteous people.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

I think that is more than some belief. And I think it is good. If we look in this world and what unrighteous people cause, it is obvious that it is better that they don"t live forever and make eternal life eternal suffering for all.

unrighteous people wouldn"t probably even want to be with God, especially if it would mean they would have to love as God has commanded. That is why hell is just what they want, eternal separation from God and his will. By what the Bible tells, hell is basically destruction place, a place where soul and body is destroyed. I don"t see any reason to believe that some will live there eternally and feel something.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
Matt. 10:28-31

If unrighteous would live in hell eternally, they would make others life suffering in there, that is why I think it is good, if they are totally destroyed there. It may sound bad, but I believe it is best for all.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 10:01:11 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 2:20:13 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:11:49 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If you are a believer in Christianity how do you deal with the thought that your god may send people you love and care about to a place of unimaginable eternal torment for something as trivial as not believing in the existence of this god due to the lack of evidence of it's existence despite otherwise being a good person?

Your best friend?
Your husband?
Your wife?
Your parent?
Your child?

Maybe they tell you they are a Christian to please you and to fit in but in reality they don't actually believe said religion?

If you make it to heaven how will you deal with knowing someone so close to you in this life is being tortured for eternity?

How in any circumstances can eternal torment be justified?

Any god that imposes it is evil.

every person has to make their own decision where they spend eternity, if you choose for God , you will spend eternity with him, if you do not choose to be with God he will not force you to spend eternity with him...

God does not make anyone go to hell they make a choice..

And, when God gets around to asking us to join Him, we can make that decision then.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 10:32:33 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 9:58:59 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:11:49 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If you are a believer in Christianity how do you deal with the thought that your god may send people you love and care about to a place of unimaginable eternal torment for something as trivial as not believing in the existence of this god due to the lack of evidence of it's existence despite otherwise being a good person?

I believe what the Bible tells and on basis of it, it is unrighteous people who go to hell and eternal life is gift for righteous people.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

I think that is more than some belief. And I think it is good. If we look in this world and what unrighteous people cause, it is obvious that it is better that they don"t live forever and make eternal life eternal suffering for all.

unrighteous people wouldn"t probably even want to be with God, especially if it would mean they would have to love as God has commanded. That is why hell is just what they want, eternal separation from God and his will. By what the Bible tells, hell is basically destruction place, a place where soul and body is destroyed. I don"t see any reason to believe that some will live there eternally and feel something.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
Matt. 10:28-31

If unrighteous would live in hell eternally, they would make others life suffering in there, that is why I think it is good, if they are totally destroyed there. It may sound bad, but I believe it is best for all.

Why did the omnipotent and omniscient creator choose to create unrighteous people with the purpose of destroying them merely for not believing in it's existence?

How is Bill Gates unrighteous?

Why is his destruction neccessary?

Hell is a literal place according to your holy book:

Luke 16:24 And he called out, "Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame."

Jude 12-13 These are hidden reefs at your love feasts, as they feast with you without fear, shepherds feeding themselves; waterless clouds, swept along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted; wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

Revelation 20:10 And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,008
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 10:34:38 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 3:03:57 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 2:53:14 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 1:59:09 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 1:47:44 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:11:49 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If you are a believer in Christianity how do you deal with the thought that your god may send people you love and care about to a place of unimaginable eternal torment for something as trivial as not believing in the existence of this god due to the lack of evidence of it's existence despite otherwise being a good person?

Your best friend?
Your husband?
Your wife?
Your parent?
Your child?

Maybe they tell you they are a Christian to please you and to fit in but in reality they don't actually believe said religion?

If you make it to heaven how will you deal with knowing someone so close to you in this life is being tortured for eternity?

How in any circumstances can eternal torment be justified?

Any god that imposes it is evil.



First, why do you get to decide what is "trivial"?

Second, anyone in Hell has chosen yo separate themselves from God.

Third, I will take joy knowing that justice has been done.

Smithereens, meet dsjpk5 lol


I'm not sure what you are referring to. Please help.

Smithereens and I were having an exchange here, and she said she'd never met a Christian who held to a literal interpretation of the biblical description of hell. I thought from your comments that perhaps you did. If that's incorrect, I apologise.

I don't believe it is a physical place, but I do believe it's a state of eternal separation from God.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,008
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 10:45:29 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 9:38:02 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 1:47:44 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:11:49 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If you are a believer in Christianity how do you deal with the thought that your god may send people you love and care about to a place of unimaginable eternal torment for something as trivial as not believing in the existence of this god due to the lack of evidence of it's existence despite otherwise being a good person?

Your best friend?
Your husband?
Your wife?
Your parent?
Your child?

Maybe they tell you they are a Christian to please you and to fit in but in reality they don't actually believe said religion?


If you make it to heaven how will you deal with knowing someone so close to you in this life is being tortured for eternity?

How in any circumstances can eternal torment be justified?

Any god that imposes it is evil.



First, why do you get to decide what is "trivial"?

Because in comparison to being a mass murderer not believing in a religion is a trivial incident as any rational person would understand and accept.


I didn't ask if you could come up with a worse offense; I asked why do you get to decide what is inherently "trivial". Just because a worse offense is not trivial doesn't mean a lesser offense is trivial.

Second, anyone in Hell has chosen yo separate themselves from God.

No one would choose to go to Hell.

Everyone there did. If they didn't, they're not there.

Third, I will take joy knowing that justice has been done.

So you would take joy in watching your children burn in flames merely for choosing the wrong religion?


Anyone in Hell deserves it. No one accidentally goes to Hell. It would be unjust to let them in Heaven. God is not only a merciful God, He's a just God.

I have to say it, your delusion has made you evil.

There's no reason for you to call me evil just because I have a different opinion than you. That's not very tolerant.

You are so scared of an imaginary boogeyman you fight any negative thoughts about this boogeyman you are so fearful of.

I am not afraid of God. Please stop putting words in my mouth.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 11:22:29 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 9:11:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 1:43:39 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:11:49 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If you are a believer in Christianity how do you deal with the thought that your god may send people you love and care about to a place of unimaginable eternal torment for something as trivial as not believing in the existence of this god due to the lack of evidence of it's existence despite otherwise being a good person?

Your best friend?
Your husband?
Your wife?
Your parent?
Your child?

Maybe they tell you they are a Christian to please you and to fit in but in reality they don't actually believe said religion?

If you make it to heaven how will you deal with knowing someone so close to you in this life is being tortured for eternity?

How in any circumstances can eternal torment be justified?

Any god that imposes it is evil.
The Christian Religion is wrong! Christ himself never supported this ideology.
Matthew 12:32King James Version (KJV)
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Luke 12:10King James Version (KJV)
10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

Yes the barbaric religion of Christianity condemns people to eternal torment for saying a bad word about the holy ghost. Other than pointing that out what point are you making here?
You can't say a word against the Holy Spirit unless after knowing it, you reject it. In that respect, Jesus could have been in danger of that judgement, and rejecting the Holy Spirit is what he was tempted to do when he fasted in the wilderness, since the Spirit was given unto him without measure, he was tempted to reject it and embrace worldly pursuits but he chose not to.

I know you have created your own unique religion and your entitled to your views.
I have done no such thing. Following the teachings of the recorded words that Jesus spoke when he was a man on earth, is older than organized Christianity.
Having said that I'm here to argue with Christians who believe a holy book that claims people either go to heaven or hell after death. I'm not particularly interested in the modified form of Christianity you believe in but if you want to first demonstrate how you have authority to be selective in terms of which parts of the bible are divinely influenced and which parts are false I would be prepared to engage in this discussion.

My authority is given to me by John 3:16. I believe that Jesus granted the forgiveness of sins while he was on earth, I only want to follow his teachings, (not Paul's or OT's) since my faith in his ministry brought me to repentance and I felt a renewed sense of purpose. The words recorded in the Gospels are the only authority I need in order to continue in New Life which is what he promised. What baffles me is when other Christians who claim to have received New Life don't wanna know as much detail as possible about what he actually said.

I'm not God, it isn't for me to judge salvation and damnation after death, I can only testify that following Jesus' teachings has given me a New sense of purpose while I'm still alive.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/26/2016 11:23:55 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 10:45:29 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 9:38:02 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 1:47:44 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:11:49 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If you are a believer in Christianity how do you deal with the thought that your god may send people you love and care about to a place of unimaginable eternal torment for something as trivial as not believing in the existence of this god due to the lack of evidence of it's existence despite otherwise being a good person?

Your best friend?
Your husband?
Your wife?
Your parent?
Your child?

Maybe they tell you they are a Christian to please you and to fit in but in reality they don't actually believe said religion?



If you make it to heaven how will you deal with knowing someone so close to you in this life is being tortured for eternity?

How in any circumstances can eternal torment be justified?

Any god that imposes it is evil.



First, why do you get to decide what is "trivial"?

Because in comparison to being a mass murderer not believing in a religion is a trivial incident as any rational person would understand and accept.


I didn't ask if you could come up with a worse offense; I asked why do you get to decide what is inherently "trivial". Just because a worse offense is not trivial doesn't mean a lesser offense is trivial.

It's my opinion it's trivial. I am entitled to my opinion. You are entitled to make a counter argument explaining why you don't consider it trivial.

Second, anyone in Hell has chosen yo separate themselves from God.

No one would choose to go to Hell.

Everyone there did. If they didn't, they're not there.

False. No one would choose eternal torture.

Third, I will take joy knowing that justice has been done.

So you would take joy in watching your children burn in flames merely for choosing the wrong religion?


Anyone in Hell deserves it. No one accidentally goes to Hell. It would be unjust to let them in Heaven. God is not only a merciful God, He's a just God.

Your made up boogeyman is pure evil.

I have to say it, your delusion has made you evil.

There's no reason for you to call me evil just because I have a different opinion than you. That's not very tolerant.

I'm entitled to think someone is evil if they take joy in seeing their own children tortured for eternity.


You are so scared of an imaginary boogeyman you fight any negative thoughts about this boogeyman you are so fearful of.


I am not afraid of God. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

So if you are not afraid of your imaginary boogeyman why would you take joy in seeing your own children tortured for eternity?

I know your petrified of your false god but part of the fear makes you suppress thoughts acknowledging this inherent fear in fear of this omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent boogeyman.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,008
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/27/2016 12:46:25 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 11:23:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 10:45:29 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 9:38:02 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 1:47:44 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:11:49 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If you are a believer in Christianity how do you deal with the thought that your god may send people you love and care about to a place of unimaginable eternal torment for something as trivial as not believing in the existence of this god due to the lack of evidence of it's existence despite otherwise being a good person?

Your best friend?
Your husband?
Your wife?
Your parent?
Your child?

Maybe they tell you they are a Christian to please you and to fit in but in reality they don't actually believe said religion?



If you make it to heaven how will you deal with knowing someone so close to you in this life is being tortured for eternity?

How in any circumstances can eternal torment be justified?

Any god that imposes it is evil.



First, why do you get to decide what is "trivial"?

Because in comparison to being a mass murderer not believing in a religion is a trivial incident as any rational person would understand and accept.


I didn't ask if you could come up with a worse offense; I asked why do you get to decide what is inherently "trivial". Just because a worse offense is not trivial doesn't mean a lesser offense is trivial.

It's my opinion it's trivial. I am entitled to my opinion. You are entitled to make a counter argument explaining why you don't consider it trivial.

Oh, so it's just your personal, fallible opinion. So you could be wrong. As for my opinion, I believe that it's not our job to decide what's trivial to us. The authoritative standard bearer gets to decide.

Second, anyone in Hell has chosen yo separate themselves from God.

No one would choose to go to Hell.

Everyone there did. If they didn't, they're not there.

False. No one would choose eternal torture.

God doesn't force anyone to Hell. He gave us free will.

Third, I will take joy knowing that justice has been done.

So you would take joy in watching your children burn in flames merely for choosing the wrong religion?


Anyone in Hell deserves it. No one accidentally goes to Hell. It would be unjust to let them in Heaven. God is not only a merciful God, He's a just God.

Your made up boogeyman is pure evil.

I have to say it, your delusion has made you evil.

There's no reason for you to call me evil just because I have a different opinion than you. That's not very tolerant.

I'm entitled to think someone is evil if they take joy in seeing their own children tortured for eternity.


Well then I'm entitled to call you evil because you support injustice.

You are so scared of an imaginary boogeyman you fight any negative thoughts about this boogeyman you are so fearful of.


I am not afraid of God. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

So if you are not afraid of your imaginary boogeyman why would you take joy in seeing your own children tortured for eternity?

Already answered. I believe in justice. I support justice.

I know your petrified of your false god but part of the fear makes you suppress thoughts acknowledging this inherent fear in fear of this omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent boogeyman.

You really should refrain from any more mind reading attempts. You're failing.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax