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Will Religion Survive?

Willows
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10/8/2016 9:30:25 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
Now that Western democracies have access to unlimited education and knowledge, there is really no reason to have religious beliefs. Indeed, science has completely debunked the draconian belief of creation and apart from a few die-hard, hot-headed, arrogant control freaks and the profoundly deluded, religion for most "followers" is merely a cultural hangover, given no more than lip service.

The outmoded morals and lifestyle dictums preached by religious institutions have now become way behind the times and in some cases, followers are urged to break the law.

Given that religion was originally devised by the ruling classes to control the (then) superstitious masses and we now have free, democratic societies with higher education standards, is religion in its final throes?
tarantula
Posts: 854
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10/8/2016 9:33:32 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/8/2016 9:30:25 AM, Willows wrote:
Now that Western democracies have access to unlimited education and knowledge, there is really no reason to have religious beliefs. Indeed, science has completely debunked the draconian belief of creation and apart from a few die-hard, hot-headed, arrogant control freaks and the profoundly deluded, religion for most "followers" is merely a cultural hangover, given no more than lip service.

The outmoded morals and lifestyle dictums preached by religious institutions have now become way behind the times and in some cases, followers are urged to break the law.

Given that religion was originally devised by the ruling classes to control the (then) superstitious masses and we now have free, democratic societies with higher education standards, is religion in its final throes?

One day all religions will probably die out, and that would be no bad thing.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,208
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10/8/2016 9:34:38 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/8/2016 9:30:25 AM, Willows wrote:
Now that Western democracies have access to unlimited education and knowledge, there is really no reason to have religious beliefs. Indeed, science has completely debunked the draconian belief of creation and apart from a few die-hard, hot-headed, arrogant control freaks and the profoundly deluded, religion for most "followers" is merely a cultural hangover, given no more than lip service.

The outmoded morals and lifestyle dictums preached by religious institutions have now become way behind the times and in some cases, followers are urged to break the law.

Given that religion was originally devised by the ruling classes to control the (then) superstitious masses and we now have free, democratic societies with higher education standards, is religion in its final throes?

Mm?

No. Next comes the social and political violence.

Then the "more" violence, as the religion of peace steps in to fill the void.

Followed up by still more violence.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Willows
Posts: 2,053
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10/8/2016 9:38:59 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/8/2016 9:34:38 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 10/8/2016 9:30:25 AM, Willows wrote:
Now that Western democracies have access to unlimited education and knowledge, there is really no reason to have religious beliefs. Indeed, science has completely debunked the draconian belief of creation and apart from a few die-hard, hot-headed, arrogant control freaks and the profoundly deluded, religion for most "followers" is merely a cultural hangover, given no more than lip service.

The outmoded morals and lifestyle dictums preached by religious institutions have now become way behind the times and in some cases, followers are urged to break the law.

Given that religion was originally devised by the ruling classes to control the (then) superstitious masses and we now have free, democratic societies with higher education standards, is religion in its final throes?

Mm?

No. Next comes the social and political violence.

Then the "more" violence, as the religion of peace steps in to fill the void.

Followed up by still more violence.
You mean, somewhere near a fraction of the social and political violence we now see in religiously ruled countries?
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,208
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10/8/2016 10:30:01 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/8/2016 9:38:59 AM, Willows wrote:
At 10/8/2016 9:34:38 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 10/8/2016 9:30:25 AM, Willows wrote:
Now that Western democracies have access to unlimited education and knowledge, there is really no reason to have religious beliefs. Indeed, science has completely debunked the draconian belief of creation and apart from a few die-hard, hot-headed, arrogant control freaks and the profoundly deluded, religion for most "followers" is merely a cultural hangover, given no more than lip service.

The outmoded morals and lifestyle dictums preached by religious institutions have now become way behind the times and in some cases, followers are urged to break the law.

Given that religion was originally devised by the ruling classes to control the (then) superstitious masses and we now have free, democratic societies with higher education standards, is religion in its final throes?

Mm?

No. Next comes the social and political violence.

Then the "more" violence, as the religion of peace steps in to fill the void.

Followed up by still more violence.
You mean, somewhere near a fraction of the social and political violence we now see in religiously ruled countries?

Religion is a substitute for "me".

So, if you reject my religion, you reject "me".

The problem is, in that religion, there is "authority, judgment, reward, presumed punishment, presumed reward, benefits and detriments I bring to the table" etc.

To some people, being rejected is, meh. No big.

To others, being rejected, especially the authority and the judgment part, is no small pill to swallow. You are rejecting the core of their being, and whats more, rejecting their assumed power over you that is for your betterment. (how dare you, right?)

So once all this brujah ha comes down the pick and the local Christians begin to quietly fade away after the great religious throwdown of protests, Rally to Bring Back God, and all that is a fleeting memory...

Muhamed Al Kaboom and his empowered harem will come to town and attempt the opposite of what the more civil minded religions do, and after a few more generations lost...

finally, religion will be seen as the outdated and obsolete methodology of morality construction it is.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,101
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10/8/2016 5:32:09 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/8/2016 9:30:25 AM, Willows wrote:
Now that Western democracies have access to unlimited education and knowledge, there is really no reason to have religious beliefs. Indeed, science has completely debunked the draconian belief of creation and apart from a few die-hard, hot-headed, arrogant control freaks and the profoundly deluded, religion for most "followers" is merely a cultural hangover, given no more than lip service.

The outmoded morals and lifestyle dictums preached by religious institutions have now become way behind the times and in some cases, followers are urged to break the law.

Given that religion was originally devised by the ruling classes to control the (then) superstitious masses and we now have free, democratic societies with higher education standards, is religion in its final throes?

There is really no need for anything to do anything....What is the meaning of life? You could drive yourself mad trying to answer that.

I'll be handing a variety of religious context down to my children. There is a great deal of wisdom to be had all over the world, and religions are a great source for tapping it in an organized manner.

Its got at least one generation left in it.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Willows
Posts: 2,053
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10/8/2016 11:20:26 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/8/2016 5:32:09 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 10/8/2016 9:30:25 AM, Willows wrote:
Now that Western democracies have access to unlimited education and knowledge, there is really no reason to have religious beliefs. Indeed, science has completely debunked the draconian belief of creation and apart from a few die-hard, hot-headed, arrogant control freaks and the profoundly deluded, religion for most "followers" is merely a cultural hangover, given no more than lip service.

The outmoded morals and lifestyle dictums preached by religious institutions have now become way behind the times and in some cases, followers are urged to break the law.

Given that religion was originally devised by the ruling classes to control the (then) superstitious masses and we now have free, democratic societies with higher education standards, is religion in its final throes?

There is really no need for anything to do anything....What is the meaning of life? You could drive yourself mad trying to answer that.

I'll be handing a variety of religious context down to my children. There is a great deal of wisdom to be had all over the world, and religions are a great source for tapping it in an organized manner.

Its got at least one generation left in it.

I agree with you, there is a lot of wisdom to be found in religious texts.
In books such as the Quran and the Bible, for example, such pearls of wisdom are also completely swamped by screeds of misinformation and garbled historical accounts.

Nevertheless, whatever wisdom there is in religious texts, you will find elsewhere also.

I'm sure your children will be able to discriminate but there is also a lot of religious text that may have been regarded as wise years ago but is dismissed as outrightly offensive now.
dsjpk5
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10/9/2016 2:19:07 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/8/2016 9:30:25 AM, Willows wrote:
Now that Western democracies have access to unlimited education and knowledge, there is really no reason to have religious beliefs. Indeed, science has completely debunked the draconian belief of creation

Well, as a Catholic, I am free to accept the big bang, and old earth model. With this in mind even if true, science in now way refutes Catholicism. Therefore, the existence of science is no reason for Catholicism to not survive.

The outmoded morals and lifestyle dictums preached by religious institutions have now become way behind the times and in some cases, followers are urged to break the law.


I don't see why lack of.political correctness is any reason to abandon one's deeply held beliefs.

Given that religion was originally devised by the ruling classes to control the (then) superstitious masses and we now have free,

Catholicism was started by a group of fishermen (except for Matthew, the tax collector), so again, this argument doesn't apply to Catholicism.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
Willows
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10/9/2016 3:56:50 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/9/2016 2:19:07 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/8/2016 9:30:25 AM, Willows wrote:
Now that Western democracies have access to unlimited education and knowledge, there is really no reason to have religious beliefs. Indeed, science has completely debunked the draconian belief of creation

Well, as a Catholic, I am free to accept the big bang, and old earth model. With this in mind even if true, science in now way refutes Catholicism. Therefore, the existence of science is no reason for Catholicism to not survive.

It is very accommodating of your superiors to give you the freedom to accept a couple of principals.
Catholicism will ultimately not survive since the very cornerstone of the fundamental belief of creation (indeed of all Christian churches) has been properly disproved. Even if it were only for the social aspects of Catholicism there have been far too many negative issues with the church, many of which continue to plague it.


The outmoded morals and lifestyle dictums preached by religious institutions have now become way behind the times and in some cases, followers are urged to break the law.


I don't see why lack of.political correctness is any reason to abandon one's deeply held beliefs.
I am not talking of mere political correctness but being anti-social and breaking the law. For example, it is illegal in most democratic states and countries to vilify minority groups, prevent some abortions and refuse the issue of contraceptives

Given that religion was originally devised by the ruling classes to control the (then) superstitious masses and we now have free,

Catholicism was started by a group of fishermen (except for Matthew, the tax collector), so again, this argument doesn't apply to Catholicism.

That is speculation and denies the fact that the Catholic church has an appalling record of oppression and human rights abuse, more so than any other church. May I remind you, for starters of the Borgias and the Nazi party?
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,372
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10/9/2016 6:57:42 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/8/2016 9:30:25 AM, Willows wrote:
Now that Western democracies have access to unlimited education and knowledge, there is really no reason to have religious beliefs. Indeed, science has completely debunked the draconian belief of creation and apart from a few die-hard, hot-headed, arrogant control freaks and the profoundly deluded, religion for most "followers" is merely a cultural hangover, given no more than lip service.

The outmoded morals and lifestyle dictums preached by religious institutions have now become way behind the times and in some cases, followers are urged to break the law.

Given that religion was originally devised by the ruling classes to control the (then) superstitious masses and we now have free, democratic societies with higher education standards, is religion in its final throes?
Have you ever thought of moving to North Korea?
bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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10/9/2016 7:18:12 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
Religion of one sort or another will survive for as long as the human race does. Religions have probably existed in one form or another for 200,000yrs. Those currently in existence are nothing special, they are the result of human imagination coupled with human fear just as every religion for 200k years has been.
The influence exerted on society by these religions will diminish as they have in the past.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
RoderickSpode
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10/9/2016 7:43:49 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/8/2016 9:34:38 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 10/8/2016 9:30:25 AM, Willows wrote:
Now that Western democracies have access to unlimited education and knowledge, there is really no reason to have religious beliefs. Indeed, science has completely debunked the draconian belief of creation and apart from a few die-hard, hot-headed, arrogant control freaks and the profoundly deluded, religion for most "followers" is merely a cultural hangover, given no more than lip service.

The outmoded morals and lifestyle dictums preached by religious institutions have now become way behind the times and in some cases, followers are urged to break the law.

Given that religion was originally devised by the ruling classes to control the (then) superstitious masses and we now have free, democratic societies with higher education standards, is religion in its final throes?

Mm?

No. Next comes the social and political violence.

Then the "more" violence, as the religion of peace steps in to fill the void.

Followed up by still more violence.
Or the "more" violence, as the ideology of peace steps in to fill the void for communism, Marxism, socialism, Juche, etc.

Followed up by still more violence.
illegalcombat
Posts: 632
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10/9/2016 7:53:56 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/8/2016 9:30:25 AM, Willows wrote:
Now that Western democracies have access to unlimited education and knowledge, there is really no reason to have religious beliefs. Indeed, science has completely debunked the draconian belief of creation and apart from a few die-hard, hot-headed, arrogant control freaks and the profoundly deluded, religion for most "followers" is merely a cultural hangover, given no more than lip service.

The outmoded morals and lifestyle dictums preached by religious institutions have now become way behind the times and in some cases, followers are urged to break the law.

Given that religion was originally devised by the ruling classes to control the (then) superstitious masses and we now have free, democratic societies with higher education standards, is religion in its final throes?

I think that was the general gist of Volatires reasoning as to why religion at best in the future would be gone or so small as to be so insignificant. Trouble is he wrote that in the 17th Century, yet it still here, very very big, very very significant.

There was a time not so long ago I would of agreed with such reasoning, I laugh at that now, now that I understand a bit more about religion and about people I can confidentiality say, religion is not going anywhere, anytime soon.

Just consider ONE point as to why religion isn't going anywhere, think about the power and wealth involved in such an enterprise.

You get to control people with threats and promises of an angry or happy God. You can count on the support of the ruling/ownership class as long as your preachment don't call to action over turning the system, just preach against gays or some sh*t, and of course you will be handsomely rewarded.

Now any person or group with that power, who the f*ck is going to give that up ? And a cherry on top any income received in such an enterprise......

..............

..............

TAX F*CKING FREE !!!

Hey, it at least beats working hard labour every day for minimum wage.
Willows
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10/9/2016 8:00:13 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/9/2016 7:18:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
Religion of one sort or another will survive for as long as the human race does.

Probably, but to what degree?

Once upon a time everybody believed in witches and it wasn't that long ago in human history that we had the "witch hunts".
Sure, you still get people who believe in witches and some who think they are witches (leave Hillary Clinton out of this) but they are a minimal extreme lunatic fringe.

I think that now, with a faster rate of cultural integration and enormous information resources, we will find religion disappearing into the lunatic fringe, where it belongs, sooner rather than later.
Willows
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10/9/2016 8:17:37 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/9/2016 7:53:56 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 10/8/2016 9:30:25 AM, Willows wrote:
Now that Western democracies have access to unlimited education and knowledge, there is really no reason to have religious beliefs. Indeed, science has completely debunked the draconian belief of creation and apart from a few die-hard, hot-headed, arrogant control freaks and the profoundly deluded, religion for most "followers" is merely a cultural hangover, given no more than lip service.

The outmoded morals and lifestyle dictums preached by religious institutions have now become way behind the times and in some cases, followers are urged to break the law.

Given that religion was originally devised by the ruling classes to control the (then) superstitious masses and we now have free, democratic societies with higher education standards, is religion in its final throes?

I think that was the general gist of Volatires reasoning as to why religion at best in the future would be gone or so small as to be so insignificant. Trouble is he wrote that in the 17th Century, yet it still here, very very big, very very significant.

There was a time not so long ago I would of agreed with such reasoning, I laugh at that now, now that I understand a bit more about religion and about people I can confidentiality say, religion is not going anywhere, anytime soon.

Just consider ONE point as to why religion isn't going anywhere, think about the power and wealth involved in such an enterprise.

You get to control people with threats and promises of an angry or happy God. You can count on the support of the ruling/ownership class as long as your preachment don't call to action over turning the system, just preach against gays or some sh*t, and of course you will be handsomely rewarded.

Now any person or group with that power, who the f*ck is going to give that up ? And a cherry on top any income received in such an enterprise......

..............

..............

TAX F*CKING FREE !!!

Hey, it at least beats working hard labour every day for minimum wage.

Holy crap, that thought disappoints me.

I was mentioning to Spode that, just like witches, Gods will be a thing of the past sooner than we may think. We have vast cultural integration happening across the globe and good information available at our fingertips.

Humanity simply cannot afford to have societies of deluded people, all with different imaginary friends living next door to one another.

If it isn't bad enough that we have different religious groups living in neighbouring regions and countries ripping each others' heads off we can least afford our city streets becoming the same way.

In the end, common sense will prevail as we all learn to live together and the whole concept of self-centered, elitist, bigoted, racist, ignorant, arrogant, scornful, delusional behaviour that is religion will be relegated to the trash can of history as one of the worst experiments ever devised by mankind.
Willows
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10/9/2016 8:22:08 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/9/2016 8:17:37 AM, Willows wrote:
At 10/9/2016 7:53:56 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 10/8/2016 9:30:25 AM, Willows wrote:
Now that Western democracies have access to unlimited education and knowledge, there is really no reason to have religious beliefs. Indeed, science has completely debunked the draconian belief of creation and apart from a few die-hard, hot-headed, arrogant control freaks and the profoundly deluded, religion for most "followers" is merely a cultural hangover, given no more than lip service.

The outmoded morals and lifestyle dictums preached by religious institutions have now become way behind the times and in some cases, followers are urged to break the law.

Given that religion was originally devised by the ruling classes to control the (then) superstitious masses and we now have free, democratic societies with higher education standards, is religion in its final throes?

I think that was the general gist of Volatires reasoning as to why religion at best in the future would be gone or so small as to be so insignificant. Trouble is he wrote that in the 17th Century, yet it still here, very very big, very very significant.

There was a time not so long ago I would of agreed with such reasoning, I laugh at that now, now that I understand a bit more about religion and about people I can confidentiality say, religion is not going anywhere, anytime soon.

Just consider ONE point as to why religion isn't going anywhere, think about the power and wealth involved in such an enterprise.

You get to control people with threats and promises of an angry or happy God. You can count on the support of the ruling/ownership class as long as your preachment don't call to action over turning the system, just preach against gays or some sh*t, and of course you will be handsomely rewarded.

Now any person or group with that power, who the f*ck is going to give that up ? And a cherry on top any income received in such an enterprise......

..............

..............

TAX F*CKING FREE !!!

Hey, it at least beats working hard labour every day for minimum wage.

Holy crap, that thought disappoints me.

I was mentioning to Spode that, just like witches, Gods will be a thing of the past sooner than we may think. We have vast cultural integration happening across the globe and good information available at our fingertips.

Humanity simply cannot afford to have societies of deluded people, all with different imaginary friends living next door to one another.

If it isn't bad enough that we have different religious groups living in neighbouring regions and countries ripping each others' heads off we can least afford our city streets becoming the same way.

In the end, common sense will prevail as we all learn to live together and the whole concept of self-centered, elitist, bigoted, racist, ignorant, arrogant, scornful, delusional behaviour that is religion will be relegated to the trash can of history as one of the worst experiments ever devised by mankind.

Woh, hang on... it wasn't Spode I spoke to...it was Bulproof.
Spode asked me, for some cryptically ridiculous reason if I want to move to North Korea and for some reason, I really can think of no answer.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,372
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10/9/2016 9:32:04 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/9/2016 8:22:08 AM, Willows wrote:
At 10/9/2016 8:17:37 AM, Willows wrote:
At 10/9/2016 7:53:56 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 10/8/2016 9:30:25 AM, Willows wrote:
Now that Western democracies have access to unlimited education and knowledge, there is really no reason to have religious beliefs. Indeed, science has completely debunked the draconian belief of creation and apart from a few die-hard, hot-headed, arrogant control freaks and the profoundly deluded, religion for most "followers" is merely a cultural hangover, given no more than lip service.

The outmoded morals and lifestyle dictums preached by religious institutions have now become way behind the times and in some cases, followers are urged to break the law.

Given that religion was originally devised by the ruling classes to control the (then) superstitious masses and we now have free, democratic societies with higher education standards, is religion in its final throes?

I think that was the general gist of Volatires reasoning as to why religion at best in the future would be gone or so small as to be so insignificant. Trouble is he wrote that in the 17th Century, yet it still here, very very big, very very significant.

There was a time not so long ago I would of agreed with such reasoning, I laugh at that now, now that I understand a bit more about religion and about people I can confidentiality say, religion is not going anywhere, anytime soon.

Just consider ONE point as to why religion isn't going anywhere, think about the power and wealth involved in such an enterprise.

You get to control people with threats and promises of an angry or happy God. You can count on the support of the ruling/ownership class as long as your preachment don't call to action over turning the system, just preach against gays or some sh*t, and of course you will be handsomely rewarded.

Now any person or group with that power, who the f*ck is going to give that up ? And a cherry on top any income received in such an enterprise......

..............

..............

TAX F*CKING FREE !!!

Hey, it at least beats working hard labour every day for minimum wage.

Holy crap, that thought disappoints me.

I was mentioning to Spode that, just like witches, Gods will be a thing of the past sooner than we may think. We have vast cultural integration happening across the globe and good information available at our fingertips.

Humanity simply cannot afford to have societies of deluded people, all with different imaginary friends living next door to one another.

If it isn't bad enough that we have different religious groups living in neighbouring regions and countries ripping each others' heads off we can least afford our city streets becoming the same way.

In the end, common sense will prevail as we all learn to live together and the whole concept of self-centered, elitist, bigoted, racist, ignorant, arrogant, scornful, delusional behaviour that is religion will be relegated to the trash can of history as one of the worst experiments ever devised by mankind.

Woh, hang on... it wasn't Spode I spoke to...it was Bulproof.
Spode asked me, for some cryptically ridiculous reason if I want to move to North Korea and for some reason, I really can think of no answer.
It wasn't meant to be cryptic (and in my opinion not ridiculous). The question also wasn't meant to be taken the way it may have come across. It's not a question to suggest you move to somewhere obviously intolerable to get rid of you. The fact that the NK is obviously an intolerable society to live in however is the point of my question. NK is an example of what a religion-free society is like. I know some claim Juche is a religion because the Kim dynasty has been deified to some degree. But for the most part it's understood to be an atheistic ideology. And of course NK is just one example among other obviously intolerable societies that possess atheistic ideology.

And since you believe history repeats itself when you speak of belief in witches, there seems to be a trend involved historically with societies with atheistic ideology where religion is absent. Of course these societies attempt to remove religion forcefully, and it's assumed that in more modern educated societies religion will naturally fade out, but statistically it's not the case. For instance, out of the 2 separate Korean nations, South Korea is the flourishing nation, where Christianity is growing, almost to the point where it's considered a Christian nation.

Another assumption is that religion (and/or Christianity) is only growing in third world countries, or amongst the poor. This is not the case in China where Christianity is growing, and a number of Christian converts are university students.

Of course what would put a complete damper on the idea of religion dying naturally is the existence of God. I'm a Christian so naturally I'll use Christianity as an example, so trying to remove Christianity from the world would be merely spinning one's wheels. And I believe nations like NK are an obvious example for all to see of this.

But putting that aside, statistically the trend seems to work this way. People get the idea that religion (particularly Christianity) is dying due to the decline in church membership, generally referring to western nations. Even if this is true, what seems to be happening globally is the water balloon effect. This is where someone squeezes water from one end of a balloon (representing western church attendance), and the other end of the balloon simply bloats. So there's no less water in the balloon. And ironically nations that were once not considered Christian nations send missionaries to western nations. And so there's still the issue of say, Asian Christians and their influence on westerners.

So the answer to the question is religion will survive in free-society. It's only if any given society develops an atheistic dictatorship that religion has any chance of being absent.
Willows
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10/9/2016 10:11:27 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/9/2016 9:32:04 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 10/9/2016 8:22:08 AM, Willows wrote:
At 10/9/2016 8:17:37 AM, Willows wrote:


Woh, hang on... it wasn't Spode I spoke to...it was Bulproof.
Spode asked me, for some cryptically ridiculous reason if I want to move to North Korea and for some reason, I really can think of no answer.
It wasn't meant to be cryptic (and in my opinion not ridiculous). The question also wasn't meant to be taken the way it may have come across. It's not a question to suggest you move to somewhere obviously intolerable to get rid of you. The fact that the NK is obviously an intolerable society to live in however is the point of my question. NK is an example of what a religion-free society is like. I know some claim Juche is a religion because the Kim dynasty has been deified to some degree. But for the most part it's understood to be an atheistic ideology. And of course NK is just one example among other obviously intolerable societies that possess atheistic ideology.

And since you believe history repeats itself when you speak of belief in witches, there seems to be a trend involved historically with societies with atheistic ideology where religion is absent. Of course these societies attempt to remove religion forcefully, and it's assumed that in more modern educated societies religion will naturally fade out, but statistically it's not the case. For instance, out of the 2 separate Korean nations, South Korea is the flourishing nation, where Christianity is growing, almost to the point where it's considered a Christian nation.

Another assumption is that religion (and/or Christianity) is only growing in third world countries, or amongst the poor. This is not the case in China where Christianity is growing, and a number of Christian converts are university students.

Of course what would put a complete damper on the idea of religion dying naturally is the existence of God. I'm a Christian so naturally I'll use Christianity as an example, so trying to remove Christianity from the world would be merely spinning one's wheels. And I believe nations like NK are an obvious example for all to see of this.

But putting that aside, statistically the trend seems to work this way. People get the idea that religion (particularly Christianity) is dying due to the decline in church membership, generally referring to western nations. Even if this is true, what seems to be happening globally is the water balloon effect. This is where someone squeezes water from one end of a balloon (representing western church attendance), and the other end of the balloon simply bloats. So there's no less water in the balloon. And ironically nations that were once not considered Christian nations send missionaries to western nations. And so there's still the issue of say, Asian Christians and their influence on westerners.

So the answer to the question is religion will survive in free-society. It's only if any given society develops an atheistic dictatorship that religion has any chance of being absent.

Point taken. NK is a religious-free society but it is not the lack of religion that makes it an intolerable place to live, it is the oppressive dictatorship that rules it as previously with China and Russia.

We are free to practice whatever religion we want under a democratic government however I see the decline in religion happening because of the merging together of different cultures and faiths.

China and Russia are experiencing a resurgence in religion, especially Christianity although I think that, looking at the big picture I would call it a spike on the chart of declining religiosity since those countries in time will experience a similar merging of cultures. The initial novelty value will wear off.

In Australia, the last government census showed that less than 14% of Catholics regularly attend church and other traditional churches not far behind in lower attendances. Youth churches have increased, mainly through appealing marketing but that makes up a very small sector.
dsjpk5
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10/9/2016 12:36:08 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/9/2016 3:56:50 AM, Willows wrote:
At 10/9/2016 2:19:07 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/8/2016 9:30:25 AM, Willows wrote:
Now that Western democracies have access to unlimited education and knowledge, there is really no reason to have religious beliefs. Indeed, science has completely debunked the draconian belief of creation

Well, as a Catholic, I am free to accept the big bang, and old earth model. With this in mind even if true, science in now way refutes Catholicism. Therefore, the existence of science is no reason for Catholicism to not survive.

It is very accommodating of your superiors to give you the freedom to accept a couple of principals.

I agree.

Catholicism will ultimately not survive since the very cornerstone of the fundamental belief of creation (indeed of all Christian churches) has been properly disproved.

Which is?

Even if it were only for the social aspects of Catholicism there have been far too many negative issues with the church, many of which continue to plague it.

Such as?

The outmoded morals and lifestyle dictums preached by religious institutions have now become way behind the times and in some cases, followers are urged to break the law.


I don't see why lack of.political correctness is any reason to abandon one's deeply held beliefs.
I am not talking of mere political correctness but being anti-social and breaking the law. For example, it is illegal in most democratic states and countries to vilify minority groups, prevent some abortions and refuse the issue of contraceptives

The Catholic Church does not advocate breaking the law, so your charges don't apply here.

Given that religion was originally devised by the ruling classes to control the (then) superstitious masses and we now have free,

Catholicism was started by a group of fishermen (except for Matthew, the tax collector), so again, this argument doesn't apply to Catholicism.

That is speculation

That's the history we have. Where is your counter historical account?

and denies the fact that the Catholic church has an appalling record of oppression and human rights abuse, more so than any other church. May I remind you, for starters of the Borgias and the Nazi party?

You may have to. Most of the Borgias family wasn't even part of Church hierarchy. And Pope Pius XII saved thousands of Jews from the Nazis.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
bulproof
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10/9/2016 12:41:00 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
Religion of one sort or another will survive for as long as the human race does. Religions have probably existed in one form or another for 200,000yrs. Those currently in existence are nothing special, they are the result of human imagination coupled with human fear just as every religion for 200k years has been.
The influence exerted on society by these religions will diminish as they have in the past.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Hiu
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10/9/2016 12:56:32 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/8/2016 9:30:25 AM, Willows wrote:
Now that Western democracies have access to unlimited education and knowledge, there is really no reason to have religious beliefs. Indeed, science has completely debunked the draconian belief of creation and apart from a few die-hard, hot-headed, arrogant control freaks and the profoundly deluded, religion for most "followers" is merely a cultural hangover, given no more than lip service.

The outmoded morals and lifestyle dictums preached by religious institutions have now become way behind the times and in some cases, followers are urged to break the law.

Given that religion was originally devised by the ruling classes to control the (then) superstitious masses and we now have free, democratic societies with higher education standards, is religion in its final throes?

I doubt religion would die out, though I believe there will be dynamic shifts in how one exercises said beliefs. There is always room for religious dogma.