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What would evidence look like?

janesix
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10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.
dee-em
Posts: 6,492
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10/10/2016 9:24:14 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

I would start with Einstein being resurrected with all his memories intact. If that were demonstrated then I would start believing in gods.
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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10/10/2016 9:32:14 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

This question is backwards. We don't decide on the being or phenomenon or whatever and then start looking for evidence. We observe something, gather evidence, make hypotheses, and repeat. Eventually, we use the results to create a theory that explains the observations. Further refinement then follows that.

To put it another way, for me to say what the evidence would be, I need a testable definition of god. To get to such a definition, the concept would have to have come about through repeated observations in testing in the first place. It didn't, so asking what evidence of it might look like is borderline nonsense.

To put it a third way: which god?
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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10/10/2016 9:33:57 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/10/2016 9:32:14 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

This question is backwards. We don't decide on the being or phenomenon or whatever and then start looking for evidence. We observe something, gather evidence, make hypotheses, and repeat. Eventually, we use the results to create a theory that explains the observations. Further refinement then follows that.

To put it another way, for me to say what the evidence would be, I need a testable definition of god. To get to such a definition, the concept would have to have come about through repeated observations in testing in the first place. It didn't, so asking what evidence of it might look like is borderline nonsense.

To put it a third way: which god?

The intelligent creator of the universe.
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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10/10/2016 10:12:28 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/10/2016 9:33:57 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:32:14 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

This question is backwards. We don't decide on the being or phenomenon or whatever and then start looking for evidence. We observe something, gather evidence, make hypotheses, and repeat. Eventually, we use the results to create a theory that explains the observations. Further refinement then follows that.

To put it another way, for me to say what the evidence would be, I need a testable definition of god. To get to such a definition, the concept would have to have come about through repeated observations in testing in the first place. It didn't, so asking what evidence of it might look like is borderline nonsense.

To put it a third way: which god?

The intelligent creator of the universe.

And what observations led you to that definition?
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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10/10/2016 10:14:36 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/10/2016 10:12:28 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:33:57 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:32:14 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

This question is backwards. We don't decide on the being or phenomenon or whatever and then start looking for evidence. We observe something, gather evidence, make hypotheses, and repeat. Eventually, we use the results to create a theory that explains the observations. Further refinement then follows that.

To put it another way, for me to say what the evidence would be, I need a testable definition of god. To get to such a definition, the concept would have to have come about through repeated observations in testing in the first place. It didn't, so asking what evidence of it might look like is borderline nonsense.

To put it a third way: which god?

The intelligent creator of the universe.

And what observations led you to that definition?

I am asking you what would be evidence for god that is defined that way.
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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10/10/2016 11:37:32 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/10/2016 10:14:36 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 10:12:28 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:33:57 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:32:14 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

This question is backwards. We don't decide on the being or phenomenon or whatever and then start looking for evidence. We observe something, gather evidence, make hypotheses, and repeat. Eventually, we use the results to create a theory that explains the observations. Further refinement then follows that.

To put it another way, for me to say what the evidence would be, I need a testable definition of god. To get to such a definition, the concept would have to have come about through repeated observations in testing in the first place. It didn't, so asking what evidence of it might look like is borderline nonsense.

To put it a third way: which god?

The intelligent creator of the universe.

And what observations led you to that definition?

I am asking you what would be evidence for god that is defined that way.

And I'm showing you how backwards that question is. Without knowing the basis for the definition, I can't give you evidence that wouldn't also support a claim that something like interdimensional, universe-creating fairies exist.
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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10/11/2016 12:38:58 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/10/2016 11:37:32 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 10:14:36 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 10:12:28 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:33:57 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:32:14 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

This question is backwards. We don't decide on the being or phenomenon or whatever and then start looking for evidence. We observe something, gather evidence, make hypotheses, and repeat. Eventually, we use the results to create a theory that explains the observations. Further refinement then follows that.

To put it another way, for me to say what the evidence would be, I need a testable definition of god. To get to such a definition, the concept would have to have come about through repeated observations in testing in the first place. It didn't, so asking what evidence of it might look like is borderline nonsense.

To put it a third way: which god?

The intelligent creator of the universe.

And what observations led you to that definition?

I am asking you what would be evidence for god that is defined that way.

And I'm showing you how backwards that question is. Without knowing the basis for the definition, I can't give you evidence that wouldn't also support a claim that something like interdimensional, universe-creating fairies exist.

Is there any evidence that an intelligence created the universe?
PrizeBeatz1
Posts: 48
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10/11/2016 2:39:00 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/11/2016 12:38:58 AM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 11:37:32 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 10:14:36 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 10:12:28 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:33:57 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:32:14 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

This question is backwards. We don't decide on the being or phenomenon or whatever and then start looking for evidence. We observe something, gather evidence, make hypotheses, and repeat. Eventually, we use the results to create a theory that explains the observations. Further refinement then follows that.

To put it another way, for me to say what the evidence would be, I need a testable definition of god. To get to such a definition, the concept would have to have come about through repeated observations in testing in the first place. It didn't, so asking what evidence of it might look like is borderline nonsense.

To put it a third way: which god?

The intelligent creator of the universe.

And what observations led you to that definition?

I am asking you what would be evidence for god that is defined that way.

And I'm showing you how backwards that question is. Without knowing the basis for the definition, I can't give you evidence that wouldn't also support a claim that something like interdimensional, universe-creating fairies exist.

Is there any evidence that an intelligence created the universe?

The evidence is space. God is infinite and eternal and we are one with this. A created universe assumes a beginning. But how can there be a beginning to that which is eternal?
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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10/11/2016 2:55:25 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

If you believe in a deistic, non-interventionist God, there would be no evidence other than the cosmological argument.

If you believe in an interventionist God, there would need to be evidence of intervention. The terrible things that happen to innocent people is evidence that intervention by a good god does not exist.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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10/11/2016 2:57:09 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/11/2016 2:39:00 AM, PrizeBeatz1 wrote:
At 10/11/2016 12:38:58 AM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 11:37:32 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 10:14:36 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 10:12:28 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:33:57 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:32:14 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

This question is backwards. We don't decide on the being or phenomenon or whatever and then start looking for evidence. We observe something, gather evidence, make hypotheses, and repeat. Eventually, we use the results to create a theory that explains the observations. Further refinement then follows that.

To put it another way, for me to say what the evidence would be, I need a testable definition of god. To get to such a definition, the concept would have to have come about through repeated observations in testing in the first place. It didn't, so asking what evidence of it might look like is borderline nonsense.

To put it a third way: which god?

The intelligent creator of the universe.

And what observations led you to that definition?

I am asking you what would be evidence for god that is defined that way.

And I'm showing you how backwards that question is. Without knowing the basis for the definition, I can't give you evidence that wouldn't also support a claim that something like interdimensional, universe-creating fairies exist.

Is there any evidence that an intelligence created the universe?

The evidence is space. God is infinite and eternal and we are one with this. A created universe assumes a beginning. But how can there be a beginning to that which is eternal?

If you believe in a deistic, non-interventionist God, there would be no evidence other than the cosmological argument, which is what you gave above.

If you believe in an interventionist God, there would need to be evidence of intervention. The terrible things that happen to innocent people is evidence that intervention by a good god does not exist.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,136
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10/11/2016 4:56:09 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

That is dependent on a valid definition of "god".
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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10/11/2016 5:55:17 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.
Would it be an omnipotent, omniscient creator of the universe?
illegalcombat
Posts: 632
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10/11/2016 6:04:27 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

Significant advanced technology (from the natives point of view), is indistinguishable from miracles.
Willows
Posts: 2,084
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10/11/2016 9:59:18 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

I don't know.
You are the one making the ridiculous claim in the first place, so why don't you say what the evidence looks like.

If, as I suspect you do not know then stop making such ridiculous claims.

But of course that won't happen, will it? So long as your myth cannot be disproven you can snuggle up in bed with a cup of warm milk content with the thought that nobody can threaten your imaginary friend.
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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10/11/2016 10:35:02 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/11/2016 5:55:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.
Would it be an omnipotent, omniscient creator of the universe?
Where is my omnipotent, omniscient creator of the universe?
tarantula
Posts: 866
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10/11/2016 10:40:41 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

God would appear in person in a way which would be undeniable. Surely it would do that if it really exists, instead of playing games and its existence be a matter of mere belief.
Silly_Billy
Posts: 656
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10/11/2016 10:45:08 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/11/2016 12:38:58 AM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 11:37:32 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 10:14:36 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 10:12:28 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:33:57 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:32:14 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

This question is backwards. We don't decide on the being or phenomenon or whatever and then start looking for evidence. We observe something, gather evidence, make hypotheses, and repeat. Eventually, we use the results to create a theory that explains the observations. Further refinement then follows that.

To put it another way, for me to say what the evidence would be, I need a testable definition of god. To get to such a definition, the concept would have to have come about through repeated observations in testing in the first place. It didn't, so asking what evidence of it might look like is borderline nonsense.

To put it a third way: which god?

The intelligent creator of the universe.

And what observations led you to that definition?

I am asking you what would be evidence for god that is defined that way.

And I'm showing you how backwards that question is. Without knowing the basis for the definition, I can't give you evidence that wouldn't also support a claim that something like interdimensional, universe-creating fairies exist.

Is there any evidence that an intelligence created the universe?

Even if there would be evidence of an intelligence having created the universe, it would therefore not mean that said intelligence would be the "God" from the Bible or from any other religion for that matter.
tarantula
Posts: 866
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10/11/2016 11:13:19 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/11/2016 10:45:08 AM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 10/11/2016 12:38:58 AM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 11:37:32 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 10:14:36 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 10:12:28 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:33:57 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:32:14 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

This question is backwards. We don't decide on the being or phenomenon or whatever and then start looking for evidence. We observe something, gather evidence, make hypotheses, and repeat. Eventually, we use the results to create a theory that explains the observations. Further refinement then follows that.

To put it another way, for me to say what the evidence would be, I need a testable definition of god. To get to such a definition, the concept would have to have come about through repeated observations in testing in the first place. It didn't, so asking what evidence of it might look like is borderline nonsense.

To put it a third way: which god?

The intelligent creator of the universe.

And what observations led you to that definition?

I am asking you what would be evidence for god that is defined that way.

And I'm showing you how backwards that question is. Without knowing the basis for the definition, I can't give you evidence that wouldn't also support a claim that something like interdimensional, universe-creating fairies exist.

Is there any evidence that an intelligence created the universe?

Even if there would be evidence of an intelligence having created the universe, it would therefore not mean that said intelligence would be the "God" from the Bible or from any other religion for that matter.

I agree. It would be highly unlikely as the god of the Bible appears to be a very human creation with all the worst human characteristics.
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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10/11/2016 4:02:05 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/11/2016 12:38:58 AM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 11:37:32 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 10:14:36 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 10:12:28 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:33:57 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:32:14 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

This question is backwards. We don't decide on the being or phenomenon or whatever and then start looking for evidence. We observe something, gather evidence, make hypotheses, and repeat. Eventually, we use the results to create a theory that explains the observations. Further refinement then follows that.

To put it another way, for me to say what the evidence would be, I need a testable definition of god. To get to such a definition, the concept would have to have come about through repeated observations in testing in the first place. It didn't, so asking what evidence of it might look like is borderline nonsense.

To put it a third way: which god?

The intelligent creator of the universe.

And what observations led you to that definition?

I am asking you what would be evidence for god that is defined that way.

And I'm showing you how backwards that question is. Without knowing the basis for the definition, I can't give you evidence that wouldn't also support a claim that something like interdimensional, universe-creating fairies exist.

Is there any evidence that an intelligence created the universe?

There are a couple of bad arguments. Other than that, I haven't seen any evidence that exclusively points to an intelligent creator.
PureX
Posts: 1,533
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10/11/2016 4:10:55 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

That would depend on the physical nature of the "god", wouldn't it? And since atheists don't accept any existing gods, physical or otherwise, then the possibility of god existing will be ruled out before it can be ruled in. So there is no possible evidence for the existence of any god by an atheist's definition.

That only leaves the theist's definition of "God". So an atheist can't really answer your question until you define "God" for him/her.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,652
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10/11/2016 4:17:02 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/11/2016 4:10:55 PM, PureX wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

That would depend on the physical nature of the "god", wouldn't it? And since atheists don't accept any existing gods, physical or otherwise, then the possibility of god existing will be ruled out before it can be ruled in. So there is no possible evidence for the existence of any god by an atheist's definition.

Of course, when you offer that ridiculous, completely false reasoning, then you would have a point. Atheists would be forced to accept "existing" gods, just like everyone else would be forced to accept "existing" gods, but no gods have ever been shown to exist, so your point is lost.

That only leaves the theist's definition of "God". So an atheist can't really answer your question until you define "God" for him/her.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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10/11/2016 4:53:49 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/11/2016 2:39:00 AM, PrizeBeatz1 wrote:
At 10/11/2016 12:38:58 AM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 11:37:32 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 10:14:36 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 10:12:28 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:33:57 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:32:14 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

This question is backwards. We don't decide on the being or phenomenon or whatever and then start looking for evidence. We observe something, gather evidence, make hypotheses, and repeat. Eventually, we use the results to create a theory that explains the observations. Further refinement then follows that.

To put it another way, for me to say what the evidence would be, I need a testable definition of god. To get to such a definition, the concept would have to have come about through repeated observations in testing in the first place. It didn't, so asking what evidence of it might look like is borderline nonsense.

To put it a third way: which god?

The intelligent creator of the universe.

And what observations led you to that definition?

I am asking you what would be evidence for god that is defined that way.

And I'm showing you how backwards that question is. Without knowing the basis for the definition, I can't give you evidence that wouldn't also support a claim that something like interdimensional, universe-creating fairies exist.

Is there any evidence that an intelligence created the universe?

The evidence is space. God is infinite and eternal and we are one with this. A created universe assumes a beginning. But how can there be a beginning to that which is eternal?

I would assume God can create limited things. Like the universe, space, matter, and time.
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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10/11/2016 4:57:11 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/11/2016 2:55:25 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

If you believe in a deistic, non-interventionist God, there would be no evidence other than the cosmological argument.

If you believe in an interventionist God, there would need to be evidence of intervention. The terrible things that happen to innocent people is evidence that intervention by a good god does not exist.

Unless God isn't benevolent.
PureX
Posts: 1,533
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10/11/2016 4:57:26 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/11/2016 4:17:02 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/11/2016 4:10:55 PM, PureX wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

That would depend on the physical nature of the "god", wouldn't it? And since atheists don't accept any existing gods, physical or otherwise, then the possibility of god existing will be ruled out before it can be ruled in. So there is no possible evidence for the existence of any god by an atheist's definition.

Of course, when you offer that ridiculous, completely false reasoning, then you would have a point. Atheists would be forced to accept "existing" gods, just like everyone else would be forced to accept "existing" gods, but no gods have ever been shown to exist, so your point is lost.

How can you accept anything as viable evidence for the existence of a god that you have already defined as nonexistent?

That only leaves the theist's definition of "God". So an atheist can't really answer your question until you define "God" for him/her.
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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10/11/2016 4:58:38 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/11/2016 5:55:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.
Would it be an omnipotent, omniscient creator of the universe?

Not necessarily. My definition for God, for the purpose of this thread, is just an intelligent creator of the universe.
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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10/11/2016 5:00:00 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/11/2016 4:56:09 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

That is dependent on a valid definition of "god".

I am defining God for the purpose of this thread, as the intelligent designer o fthe universe. I don't know what you mean by "valid".
janesix
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10/11/2016 5:02:51 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/11/2016 6:04:27 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

Significant advanced technology (from the natives point of view), is indistinguishable from miracles.

What does that have to do with the question?
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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10/11/2016 5:03:49 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/11/2016 9:59:18 AM, Willows wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

I don't know.
You are the one making the ridiculous claim in the first place, so why don't you say what the evidence looks like.

What claim have I made?

If, as I suspect you do not know then stop making such ridiculous claims.

But of course that won't happen, will it? So long as your myth cannot be disproven you can snuggle up in bed with a cup of warm milk content with the thought that nobody can threaten your imaginary friend.
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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10/11/2016 5:04:42 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/11/2016 10:40:41 AM, tarantula wrote:
At 10/10/2016 9:08:56 PM, janesix wrote:
Atheists, what would evidence of god look like? I mean physical evidence in the universe.

God would appear in person in a way which would be undeniable. Surely it would do that if it really exists, instead of playing games and its existence be a matter of mere belief.

Maybe God likes to play games.