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Guardian angels

Canuck
Posts: 164
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10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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10/13/2016 7:20:00 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
I won't delve into the guardian angel/spiritual question except to say it is a personal matter and, to not get embroiled in a winless debate vs a true conversation, it's in the eye of the beholder.

I had a similar incident years ago freestyle rock climbing. I was on a descent and my handhold crumbled resulting in an 80-100 ft fall. Thankfully it was fall with a good leaf base and I landed on a decline which also helped. I was knocked out for 2 hours but no lasting effects. It's a famous state park part of the largest National Forest east of the Mississippi. There is no logical reason I should not have sustained greater injury than... luck?
Canuck
Posts: 164
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10/13/2016 7:27:23 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/13/2016 7:20:00 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
I won't delve into the guardian angel/spiritual question except to say it is a personal matter and, to not get embroiled in a winless debate vs a true conversation, it's in the eye of the beholder.

I had a similar incident years ago freestyle rock climbing. I was on a descent and my handhold crumbled resulting in an 80-100 ft fall. Thankfully it was fall with a good leaf base and I landed on a decline which also helped. I was knocked out for 2 hours but no lasting effects. It's a famous state park part of the largest National Forest east of the Mississippi. There is no logical reason I should not have sustained greater injury than... luck?

I appreciate your response. I wasn't trying for a debate/argument here and was more interested in if and why some people may think there are spirits or angels that are watching over us. I personally don't and think it came to luck - or maybe fantastic reflexes and awareness on how to fall and land :)
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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10/13/2016 7:37:25 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/13/2016 7:27:23 PM, Canuck wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:20:00 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
I won't delve into the guardian angel/spiritual question except to say it is a personal matter and, to not get embroiled in a winless debate vs a true conversation, it's in the eye of the beholder.

I had a similar incident years ago freestyle rock climbing. I was on a descent and my handhold crumbled resulting in an 80-100 ft fall. Thankfully it was fall with a good leaf base and I landed on a decline which also helped. I was knocked out for 2 hours but no lasting effects. It's a famous state park part of the largest National Forest east of the Mississippi. There is no logical reason I should not have sustained greater injury than... luck?

I appreciate your response. I wasn't trying for a debate/argument here and was more interested in if and why some people may think there are spirits or angels that are watching over us. I personally don't and think it came to luck - or maybe fantastic reflexes and awareness on how to fall and land :)

I know and sorry if it seemed I was directing the 'debate' aspect towards you. I meant in general. I don't know or waste much thought on the subject as what is will be and I'll never change another's mind thru words, only action.

This gives an idea...

https://m.youtube.com...
kevin24018
Posts: 1,952
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10/13/2016 7:46:42 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

I have never had a reason to believe, however my wife certainly does, claims to have actually seen spirits of the deceased, there's all sorts of stories which are pretty amazing to me, it doesn't convince me but I wouldn't argue with anyone who does believe, I would say it's possible and would keep an open mind to it, though I have never had any personal experience. I'm not sure if or how it would change me if I had that experience, though different near death experiences often greatly and permanently change that person.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,673
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10/13/2016 7:51:35 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

A question to ask is, why did it let you fall in the first place? If it had the power to manipulate events so that you'd be unharmed from the accident, why did it lack the power to manipulate events to altogether prevent the accident?
kevin24018
Posts: 1,952
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10/13/2016 7:54:20 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/13/2016 7:51:35 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

A question to ask is, why did it let you fall in the first place? If it had the power to manipulate events so that you'd be unharmed from the accident, why did it lack the power to manipulate events to altogether prevent the accident?

sometimes you let children fall/fail whatever for learning purposes even though they don't know it or realize they learned something.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,673
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10/13/2016 7:58:19 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/13/2016 7:54:20 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:51:35 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

A question to ask is, why did it let you fall in the first place? If it had the power to manipulate events so that you'd be unharmed from the accident, why did it lack the power to manipulate events to altogether prevent the accident?

sometimes you let children fall/fail whatever for learning purposes even though they don't know it or realize they learned something.

What was there to learn, here?
kevin24018
Posts: 1,952
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10/13/2016 8:01:43 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/13/2016 7:58:19 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:54:20 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:51:35 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

A question to ask is, why did it let you fall in the first place? If it had the power to manipulate events so that you'd be unharmed from the accident, why did it lack the power to manipulate events to altogether prevent the accident?

sometimes you let children fall/fail whatever for learning purposes even though they don't know it or realize they learned something.

What was there to learn, here?

it didn't happen to me so... and I said "or realize they learned something." You've never learned something perhaps years later from something that had happened to you? I've learned many things and realized I learned many things as an adult from things that happened as a child, but only realizing it much much later, after the fact.
Canuck
Posts: 164
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10/13/2016 8:04:08 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/13/2016 7:51:35 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

A question to ask is, why did it let you fall in the first place? If it had the power to manipulate events so that you'd be unharmed from the accident, why did it lack the power to manipulate events to altogether prevent the accident?

I think you'll find I did ask that question. And it was actually my response to those who said someone must have been watching over me.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,673
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10/13/2016 8:09:55 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/13/2016 8:04:08 PM, Canuck wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:51:35 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

A question to ask is, why did it let you fall in the first place? If it had the power to manipulate events so that you'd be unharmed from the accident, why did it lack the power to manipulate events to altogether prevent the accident?

I think you'll find I did ask that question. And it was actually my response to those who said someone must have been watching over me.

Yep. I somehow completely missed that. My apologies.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,673
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10/13/2016 8:16:04 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/13/2016 8:01:43 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:58:19 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:54:20 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:51:35 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

A question to ask is, why did it let you fall in the first place? If it had the power to manipulate events so that you'd be unharmed from the accident, why did it lack the power to manipulate events to altogether prevent the accident?

sometimes you let children fall/fail whatever for learning purposes even though they don't know it or realize they learned something.

What was there to learn, here?

it didn't happen to me so... and I said "or realize they learned something." You've never learned something perhaps years later from something that had happened to you? I've learned many things and realized I learned many things as an adult from things that happened as a child, but only realizing it much much later, after the fact.

Understood. The answer to the question is really irrelevant; I was using that to lead into my next point.

Why would you let a child fail in order to learn something? It's so they learn to avoid or deal with that failing in the future when you're not around to protect them. In the case of a guardian angel, if they are to be watching you all the time, then what's the use in this? If the angel is present to prevent the accident in every case (which would better qualify it as a "guardian"), then this learning process has no benefit unless, at some point, the angel will not be present.
kevin24018
Posts: 1,952
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10/13/2016 8:29:54 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/13/2016 8:16:04 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/13/2016 8:01:43 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:58:19 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:54:20 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:51:35 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

A question to ask is, why did it let you fall in the first place? If it had the power to manipulate events so that you'd be unharmed from the accident, why did it lack the power to manipulate events to altogether prevent the accident?

sometimes you let children fall/fail whatever for learning purposes even though they don't know it or realize they learned something.

What was there to learn, here?

it didn't happen to me so... and I said "or realize they learned something." You've never learned something perhaps years later from something that had happened to you? I've learned many things and realized I learned many things as an adult from things that happened as a child, but only realizing it much much later, after the fact.

Understood. The answer to the question is really irrelevant; I was using that to lead into my next point.

Why would you let a child fail in order to learn something? It's so they learn to avoid or deal with that failing in the future when you're not around to protect them. In the case of a guardian angel, if they are to be watching you all the time, then what's the use in this? If the angel is present to prevent the accident in every case (which would better qualify it as a "guardian"), then this learning process has no benefit unless, at some point, the angel will not be present.

yeah I think it's more of preventing a death so they can learn something more than avoiding injury, I guess it would be similar to the near death people and the like where they are told "it's not their time yet" but really there doesn't seem to be any consistent ways in these 'guardian angels" work based on various testimonies.
so there was 3 things in the o.p. basically,
1 suggested guardian angels exist
2 they intervened to prevent death and or more serious injury
3 why wasn't the accident prevented in the first place

so if these are true and taken on their face and reason would be that the person in question needed to live and or function at a certain level to accomplish a yet unrealized goal, had that person already completed it, intervention wouldn't be needed.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,101
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10/13/2016 8:37:38 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

the bible says we have angels watching over us, so there must be at least two...
Chaosism
Posts: 2,673
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10/13/2016 8:53:49 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/13/2016 8:29:54 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/13/2016 8:16:04 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/13/2016 8:01:43 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:58:19 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:54:20 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:51:35 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

A question to ask is, why did it let you fall in the first place? If it had the power to manipulate events so that you'd be unharmed from the accident, why did it lack the power to manipulate events to altogether prevent the accident?

sometimes you let children fall/fail whatever for learning purposes even though they don't know it or realize they learned something.

What was there to learn, here?

it didn't happen to me so... and I said "or realize they learned something." You've never learned something perhaps years later from something that had happened to you? I've learned many things and realized I learned many things as an adult from things that happened as a child, but only realizing it much much later, after the fact.

Understood. The answer to the question is really irrelevant; I was using that to lead into my next point.

Why would you let a child fail in order to learn something? It's so they learn to avoid or deal with that failing in the future when you're not around to protect them. In the case of a guardian angel, if they are to be watching you all the time, then what's the use in this? If the angel is present to prevent the accident in every case (which would better qualify it as a "guardian"), then this learning process has no benefit unless, at some point, the angel will not be present.

yeah I think it's more of preventing a death so they can learn something more than avoiding injury, I guess it would be similar to the near death people and the like where they are told "it's not their time yet" but really there doesn't seem to be any consistent ways in these 'guardian angels" work based on various testimonies.
so there was 3 things in the o.p. basically,
1 suggested guardian angels exist
2 they intervened to prevent death and or more serious injury
3 why wasn't the accident prevented in the first place

so if these are true and taken on their face and reason would be that the person in question needed to live and or function at a certain level to accomplish a yet unrealized goal, had that person already completed it, intervention wouldn't be needed.

Yes, that gets kind of weird, though. It would mean that they're not really protecting you for you own sake, but for the sake of whatever has some goal in mind for you. Crazy.
kevin24018
Posts: 1,952
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10/13/2016 8:55:56 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/13/2016 8:53:49 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/13/2016 8:29:54 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/13/2016 8:16:04 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/13/2016 8:01:43 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:58:19 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:54:20 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:51:35 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

A question to ask is, why did it let you fall in the first place? If it had the power to manipulate events so that you'd be unharmed from the accident, why did it lack the power to manipulate events to altogether prevent the accident?

sometimes you let children fall/fail whatever for learning purposes even though they don't know it or realize they learned something.

What was there to learn, here?

it didn't happen to me so... and I said "or realize they learned something." You've never learned something perhaps years later from something that had happened to you? I've learned many things and realized I learned many things as an adult from things that happened as a child, but only realizing it much much later, after the fact.

Understood. The answer to the question is really irrelevant; I was using that to lead into my next point.

Why would you let a child fail in order to learn something? It's so they learn to avoid or deal with that failing in the future when you're not around to protect them. In the case of a guardian angel, if they are to be watching you all the time, then what's the use in this? If the angel is present to prevent the accident in every case (which would better qualify it as a "guardian"), then this learning process has no benefit unless, at some point, the angel will not be present.

yeah I think it's more of preventing a death so they can learn something more than avoiding injury, I guess it would be similar to the near death people and the like where they are told "it's not their time yet" but really there doesn't seem to be any consistent ways in these 'guardian angels" work based on various testimonies.
so there was 3 things in the o.p. basically,
1 suggested guardian angels exist
2 they intervened to prevent death and or more serious injury
3 why wasn't the accident prevented in the first place

so if these are true and taken on their face and reason would be that the person in question needed to live and or function at a certain level to accomplish a yet unrealized goal, had that person already completed it, intervention wouldn't be needed.

Yes, that gets kind of weird, though. It would mean that they're not really protecting you for you own sake, but for the sake of whatever has some goal in mind for you. Crazy.

sure making sense of it, is a whole nother thing, it would assume they know the future etc
dee-em
Posts: 6,486
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10/13/2016 10:06:24 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

The question is, were the physical laws of the universe violated in any way as you fell? Did you feel a force which was applied to turn you or cushion you in some way? If not, then why postulate an invisible, immaterial being which exterted a supernatural force when such an explanation is not required by the evidence?

The simple fact is that people die from such falls every day. If there were guardian entities watching over us then there would be no such deaths. You are here questioning your good luck only because you happened to survive. It couldn't be any other way. Those that fell to their deaths cannot post on DDO and curse their bad luck.
Canuck
Posts: 164
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10/13/2016 10:24:38 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/13/2016 10:06:24 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

The question is, were the physical laws of the universe violated in any way as you fell? Did you feel a force which was applied to turn you or cushion you in some way? If not, then why postulate an invisible, immaterial being which exterted a supernatural force when such an explanation is not required by the evidence?

The simple fact is that people die from such falls every day. If there were guardian entities watching over us then there would be no such deaths. You are here questioning your good luck only because you happened to survive. It couldn't be any other way. Those that fell to their deaths cannot post on DDO and curse their bad luck.

I felt gravity and then a very sudden change in momentum, but absolutely no unexplained forces. And to be clear, I am not questioning my luck, I'm questioning the people who told me directly that someone or something must have been watching over me. I don't actually believe that at all.
dee-em
Posts: 6,486
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10/13/2016 10:32:12 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/13/2016 10:24:38 PM, Canuck wrote:
At 10/13/2016 10:06:24 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

The question is, were the physical laws of the universe violated in any way as you fell? Did you feel a force which was applied to turn you or cushion you in some way? If not, then why postulate an invisible, immaterial being which exterted a supernatural force when such an explanation is not required by the evidence?

The simple fact is that people die from such falls every day. If there were guardian entities watching over us then there would be no such deaths. You are here questioning your good luck only because you happened to survive. It couldn't be any other way. Those that fell to their deaths cannot post on DDO and curse their bad luck.

I felt gravity and then a very sudden change in momentum, but absolutely no unexplained forces. And to be clear, I am not questioning my luck, I'm questioning the people who told me directly that someone or something must have been watching over me. I don't actually believe that at all.

I didn't really think you did. This was more addressed to those with a tendency towards confirmation bias. :-)
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,384
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10/13/2016 10:45:21 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

Perhaps someone decided it wasn't your time to die. Or perhaps you were never in jeopardy of dying to begin with. Maybe there was no need for an intervention other than to allow the course for the terrifying experience to unwind. Spirits have been known to help in harmful ways. Only a step outside of time can look back in farther down its line to see what is necessary for the individual. What I've learned is bad things happen for good reasons. I have many reasons to know there is always something around, every which way you go.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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10/14/2016 12:58:42 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

That would be a really good question to ask all the dead people who accidently fell from 30 foot heights.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Canuck
Posts: 164
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10/14/2016 1:48:47 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/14/2016 12:58:42 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

That would be a really good question to ask all the dead people who accidently fell from 30 foot heights.

I'll be sure to ask them when I see them in hell after I die. :)
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,610
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10/14/2016 2:07:29 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

You can call them what you want but yes, they exist. I have experience life saving by unseen hands twice in my life. both times I was driving. We are never alone.
dee-em
Posts: 6,486
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10/14/2016 2:20:17 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/14/2016 2:07:29 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

You can call them what you want but yes, they exist. I have experience life saving by unseen hands twice in my life. both times I was driving. We are never alone.

How do you explain the tens of thousands in road fatalities around the world every year?
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,610
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10/14/2016 2:48:21 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/14/2016 2:20:17 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/14/2016 2:07:29 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

You can call them what you want but yes, they exist. I have experience life saving by unseen hands twice in my life. both times I was driving. We are never alone.

How do you explain the tens of thousands in road fatalities around the world every year?

I know my experiences and have been told similar experiences by others. I can't speak for those who die under whatever circumstances.
dee-em
Posts: 6,486
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10/14/2016 3:21:48 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/14/2016 2:48:21 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/14/2016 2:20:17 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/14/2016 2:07:29 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

You can call them what you want but yes, they exist. I have experience life saving by unseen hands twice in my life. both times I was driving. We are never alone.

How do you explain the tens of thousands in road fatalities around the world every year?

I know my experiences and have been told similar experiences by others. I can't speak for those who die under whatever circumstances.

Unfortunately neither can they. So you have a guardian angel, you know a few others who apparently have one, but there many more (including a multitude of your fellow Christians) who didn't have one. Yet the oddity of this obvious contradiction seems not to interest you at all. Have you heard of cognitive dissonance?
uncung
Posts: 3,467
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10/14/2016 3:44:56 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

If they were real to guard and to save us then why do we still experience accidents?
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,610
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10/14/2016 3:58:37 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/14/2016 3:21:48 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/14/2016 2:48:21 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/14/2016 2:20:17 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/14/2016 2:07:29 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

You can call them what you want but yes, they exist. I have experience life saving by unseen hands twice in my life. both times I was driving. We are never alone.

How do you explain the tens of thousands in road fatalities around the world every year?

I know my experiences and have been told similar experiences by others. I can't speak for those who die under whatever circumstances.

Unfortunately neither can they. So you have a guardian angel, you know a few others who apparently have one, but there many more (including a multitude of your fellow Christians) who didn't have one. Yet the oddity of this obvious contradiction seems not to interest you at all. Have you heard of cognitive dissonance?

First off, i never stated I am Christian. You are too stupid to understand that you can be spiritual without being religious.Secondly are an extremely unaware human being who is just looking to pick a fight about something you can't possibly understand, and really because of that lack or awareness, have no business commenting. Stick to your science. You spend an awful lot of time in the religion forum. I guess you'll have to spend years here trying to convince anyone to come around to your self aggrandizing level of intelligence and perceived ability to convince everyone that unless they think like you, they are delusional. Go away and don't come back.
dee-em
Posts: 6,486
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10/14/2016 8:22:16 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/14/2016 3:58:37 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/14/2016 3:21:48 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/14/2016 2:48:21 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/14/2016 2:20:17 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/14/2016 2:07:29 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

You can call them what you want but yes, they exist. I have experience life saving by unseen hands twice in my life. both times I was driving. We are never alone.

How do you explain the tens of thousands in road fatalities around the world every year?

I know my experiences and have been told similar experiences by others. I can't speak for those who die under whatever circumstances.

Unfortunately neither can they. So you have a guardian angel, you know a few others who apparently have one, but there many more (including a multitude of your fellow Christians) who didn't have one. Yet the oddity of this obvious contradiction seems not to interest you at all. Have you heard of cognitive dissonance?

First off, i never stated I am Christian. You are too stupid to understand that you can be spiritual without being religious.

It was a reasonable assumption to make of someone who suggests a belief in guardian angels. How am I supposed to know your religiosity or otherwise? Telepathy?

Secondly are an extremely unaware human being who is just looking to pick a fight about something you can't possibly understand, and really because of that lack or awareness, have no business commenting.

Just discussing the beliefs you professed. Why are you so angry and defensive?

Stick to your science. You spend an awful lot of time in the religion forum. I guess you'll have to spend years here trying to convince anyone to come around to your self aggrandizing level of intelligence and perceived ability to convince everyone that unless they think like you, they are delusional. Go away and don't come back.

I'll decline your advice and I don't care for ad hominem attacks in lieu of reasoned argument. Now that you have that off your chest perhaps you would like to return to topic and answer the question you were asked? Or not. I'm guessing you are one of those people who just want to air their views and won't tolerate being questioned on them. One wonders why you are on a debate site yourself?
illegalcombat
Posts: 632
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10/14/2016 9:07:52 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/13/2016 7:10:14 PM, Canuck wrote:
I realize this is probably more of a spiritual issue rather than religious, but I suspect I may get interesting opinions in this forum.
The background: I was in an accident a couple months ago and I was very lucky to have not been much more seriously injured than I was (fell about 30 feet down a rock face into shallow water and rocks at the ocean).
When hearing about the accident I've had several people say that someone must have been watching out for me.

So my question: does anyone believe there are angels or spirits that watch out for us, and what made you come to that belief. And finally, if they exist, why wouldn't they have just prevented the accident in the first place?

Allow me to tell you a story.

Once upon a time in the land of ancient greeks, a group of ships headed out to sea. A bad storm arose, and all but one ship made it to land alive. The crew thank the Gods that they had prayed too, as surely the Gods had answered their prayers as they thought they were going to die.

Another person points out, and what about the other boats and the other bodies that now are dead at the bottom of the ocean, you don't hear their side of the story now do you ?

Only those who survivors get to tell their story.

I doubt some sort of guardian angels exist, but I know that human self self-centredness and irrational reasoning exists.