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What evidence leads you to believe atheism?

Benshapiro
Posts: 4,116
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10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,711
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10/15/2016 12:58:10 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.

In that case, allow me to point out the sloppy thread title. You should not address "atheists" unless you mean all of them. ;-)
The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible. - Salman Rushdie

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell
Benshapiro
Posts: 4,116
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10/15/2016 1:08:37 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 12:58:10 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.

In that case, allow me to point out the sloppy thread title. You should not address "atheists" unless you mean all of them. ;-)

The thread title is only in reference to those who believe atheism, which wouldn't include you if you don't hold belief.
ken1122
Posts: 1,016
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10/15/2016 1:15:18 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.

Which God are you talking about?

Ken
Looncall
Posts: 707
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10/15/2016 1:23:54 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.

Religion seems to me to be obviously a primitive hypothesis about reality hatched during humanity's ignorant childhood.

It is also clear to me that it has persisted only because it has been cleverly promoted by clergy for their own benefit.
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
Benshapiro
Posts: 4,116
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10/15/2016 1:24:44 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 1:15:18 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.

Which God are you talking about?

Ken

Any
Benshapiro
Posts: 4,116
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10/15/2016 1:25:29 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 1:23:54 AM, Looncall wrote:
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.

Religion seems to me to be obviously a primitive hypothesis about reality hatched during humanity's ignorant childhood.

It is also clear to me that it has persisted only because it has been cleverly promoted by clergy for their own benefit.

Religion and belief in God are mutually exclusive. Why treat them as if they aren't?
ken1122
Posts: 1,016
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10/15/2016 1:48:37 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 1:24:44 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 10/15/2016 1:15:18 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.

Which God are you talking about?

Ken

Any

I believe Halie Sellassie and Jesus did exist, and though many considered them Gods, I believe they were as human as you and I. Jesus died over 2000 years ago, and Halie Sellassie died back in the 1979. My point is, there are many people, and things people worship, and though I don"t call them God, I do realize they do exist.

Then there are other Gods like Yahweh, and others who I believe does not exist due to the way they are described by those who worship them

Ken
illegalcombat
Posts: 1,096
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10/15/2016 1:55:15 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.

The only people doing the talking (read) threatening for God are your fellow human beings. So if such a God exists....

1) It doesn't speak for it's self cause it doesn't exist.

2) It doesn't speak for it's self cause it is not all to concerned when people wrongly believe and act on those God beliefs cause of human beings talking sh*t.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,711
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10/15/2016 2:26:21 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 1:08:37 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 10/15/2016 12:58:10 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.

In that case, allow me to point out the sloppy thread title. You should not address "atheists" unless you mean all of them. ;-)

The thread title is only in reference to those who believe atheism, which wouldn't include you if you don't hold belief.

Your qualification doesn't seem to make any sense. This thread may be directed at atheists like myself, but I don't "believe in atheism". I disbelief and outright reject some god concepts, and thats what makes me an atheist. How does someone believe in atheism?
The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible. - Salman Rushdie

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell
keithprosser
Posts: 3,428
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10/15/2016 2:57:34 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
What evidence leads you to believe atheism?
I think its more that there isn't very good evidence for theism.
bulproof
Posts: 28,563
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10/15/2016 6:20:48 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.
Every scrap of evidence ever provided by a god claimer, in support of their claim, is evidence that gods are a figment of human imagination.
Stronn
Posts: 443
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10/15/2016 8:51:40 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.

What evidence leads you to believe that a three-headed alien is not sitting on my shoulder telling me what to type?

Having never encountered a three-headed alien, and lacking any reliable evidence that three-headed aliens are anything but an invention of imagination, it is reasonable to dismiss any assertion made about three-headed aliens. The same standard applies to to religious claims. As Hitchens put it, what can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

When it comes to religious assertions, theists routinely portray their dismissal as a positive belief, just as you are doing. But when it comes to existential assertions, non-belief is the only reasonable default position. For one thing, believing all claims until evidence arose to disprove them would lead to logical contradictions in the face of contradictory claims.

The strength of evidence required to reasonably move from the default position varies, of course. A simple assertion may be enough to reasonably move from the default position if, say, someone tells you they had a tuna sandwich for lunch. But if someone tells you they saw a three-headed alien, you would require much more than their word for it. The more fantastic the claim, the stronger the evidence required to reasonably move from the default position. And what could be more fantastic than the claims made by religion?
bulproof
Posts: 28,563
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10/15/2016 9:14:13 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 8:51:40 AM, Stronn wrote:
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.

What evidence leads you to believe that a three-headed alien is not sitting on my shoulder telling me what to type?

Having never encountered a three-headed alien, and lacking any reliable evidence that three-headed aliens are anything but an invention of imagination, it is reasonable to dismiss any assertion made about three-headed aliens. The same standard applies to to religious claims. As Hitchens put it, what can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

When it comes to religious assertions, theists routinely portray their dismissal as a positive belief, just as you are doing. But when it comes to existential assertions, non-belief is the only reasonable default position. For one thing, believing all claims until evidence arose to disprove them would lead to logical contradictions in the face of contradictory claims.

The strength of evidence required to reasonably move from the default position varies, of course. A simple assertion may be enough to reasonably move from the default position if, say, someone tells you they had a tuna sandwich for lunch. But if someone tells you they saw a three-headed alien, you would require much more than their word for it. The more fantastic the claim, the stronger the evidence required to reasonably move from the default position. And what could be more fantastic than the claims made by religion?
For some reason this very simple explanation escapes the godbotherer.\
+1
Looncall
Posts: 707
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10/15/2016 9:49:17 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 1:25:29 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 10/15/2016 1:23:54 AM, Looncall wrote:
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.

Religion seems to me to be obviously a primitive hypothesis about reality hatched during humanity's ignorant childhood.

It is also clear to me that it has persisted only because it has been cleverly promoted by clergy for their own benefit.

Religion and belief in God are mutually exclusive. Why treat them as if they aren't?

What? Aren't most religions explicitly about believing in god(s)?
Please explain.
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
Willows
Posts: 4,282
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10/15/2016 10:57:20 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.

The most stupid contradiction and twisted meaning I have ever seen in a thread and OP.

There's your evidence as to why people become atheists.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,611
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10/15/2016 11:01:56 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 6:20:48 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.
Every scrap of evidence ever provided by a god claimer, in support of their claim, is evidence that gods are a figment of human imagination.

Bammmmmm.
+1.
I'd make that my signature if I knew how to do it.
Deb-8-A-Bull
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10/15/2016 11:05:29 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 10:57:20 AM, Willows wrote:
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.

The most stupid contradiction and twisted meaning I have ever seen in a thread and OP.

There's your evidence as to why people become atheists.

Brother Willows.
Good day sir.
Skeptical1
Posts: 1,563
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10/15/2016 11:14:12 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.

I too find the idea that one "believes" in atheism odd, since atheism is essentially a lack of belief. As for why I am an atheist - for the same reason I lack belief in an invisible fire-breathing dragon in my shed. I can't prove it isn't there, but its presence would explain nothing -.just like God's. So my position is God doesn't exist, just like the dragon doesn't exist. I trust that is disbelief enough to qualify to answer.
Willows
Posts: 4,282
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10/15/2016 11:14:56 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 11:05:29 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 10/15/2016 10:57:20 AM, Willows wrote:
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.

The most stupid contradiction and twisted meaning I have ever seen in a thread and OP.

There's your evidence as to why people become atheists.

Brother Willows.
Good day sir.

Well hello, soul sister.
dee-em
Posts: 7,821
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10/15/2016 11:40:52 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:

What evidence leads you to believe atheism?

To believe in atheism? That atheists exist, of course.

Perhaps you meant "What evidence leads you to be an atheist?".

My answer is that no evidence is required to lack belief in something. That onus falls on the positive claim.

This thread is dumber than usual from you, Ben.
Out of ideas?
Fatihah: It's like your mother making spaghetti and after you taste it and don't like it, you say "well my mom must not exist". Not because their is no logical evidence but because she doesn't do what you want.
bulproof
Posts: 28,563
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10/15/2016 11:51:24 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 11:01:56 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 10/15/2016 6:20:48 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.
Every scrap of evidence ever provided by a god claimer, in support of their claim, is evidence that gods are a figment of human imagination.

Bammmmmm.
+1.
I'd make that my signature if I knew how to do it.
When you next make a post click on the "edit my signature" button below your comment before you click review.
Benshapiro
Posts: 4,116
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10/15/2016 2:08:36 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 1:48:37 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 10/15/2016 1:24:44 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 10/15/2016 1:15:18 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.

Which God are you talking about?

Ken

Any

I believe Halie Sellassie and Jesus did exist, and though many considered them Gods, I believe they were as human as you and I. Jesus died over 2000 years ago, and Halie Sellassie died back in the 1979. My point is, there are many people, and things people worship, and though I don"t call them God, I do realize they do exist.

Then there are other Gods like Yahweh, and others who I believe does not exist due to the way they are described by those who worship them

Ken

Do you believe that no god exists or just certain ones?
Benshapiro
Posts: 4,116
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10/15/2016 2:11:48 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 1:55:15 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.

The only people doing the talking (read) threatening for God are your fellow human beings. So if such a God exists....

1) It doesn't speak for it's self cause it doesn't exist.

Just because God doesn't speak in front of everyone means he doesn't exist?

2) It doesn't speak for it's self cause it is not all to concerned when people wrongly believe and act on those God beliefs cause of human beings talking sh*t.

Maybe it would be an imposition on free will and foster malintent in the people seeking to do God's will.
Benshapiro
Posts: 4,116
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10/15/2016 2:14:41 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 2:26:21 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/15/2016 1:08:37 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 10/15/2016 12:58:10 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.

In that case, allow me to point out the sloppy thread title. You should not address "atheists" unless you mean all of them. ;-)

The thread title is only in reference to those who believe atheism, which wouldn't include you if you don't hold belief.

Your qualification doesn't seem to make any sense. This thread may be directed at atheists like myself, but I don't "believe in atheism". I disbelief and outright reject some god concepts, and thats what makes me an atheist. How does someone believe in atheism?

Atheism is the negation of "God exists." Therefore, if atheism is true, this is the position that "God does not exist' is true. There are many atheists who reject any/all God(s).
Benshapiro
Posts: 4,116
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10/15/2016 2:16:31 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 2:57:34 AM, keithprosser wrote:
What evidence leads you to believe atheism?
I think its more that there isn't very good evidence for theism.

Atheism is the negation of theism. Theism is the belief that God exists. If you believe atheism is true, this just means to believe God doesn't exist. What evidence leads one to believe God doesn't exist?
Benshapiro
Posts: 4,116
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10/15/2016 2:18:06 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 6:20:48 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.
Every scrap of evidence ever provided by a god claimer, in support of their claim, is evidence that gods are a figment of human imagination.

You've chosen a very large burden of proof. Let's see you defend it.
ken1122
Posts: 1,016
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10/15/2016 2:18:45 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 2:08:36 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 10/15/2016 1:48:37 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 10/15/2016 1:24:44 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 10/15/2016 1:15:18 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.

Which God are you talking about?

Ken

Any

I believe Halie Sellassie and Jesus did exist, and though many considered them Gods, I believe they were as human as you and I. Jesus died over 2000 years ago, and Halie Sellassie died back in the 1979. My point is, there are many people, and things people worship, and though I don"t call them God, I do realize they do exist.

Then there are other Gods like Yahweh, and others who I believe does not exist due to the way they are described by those who worship them

Ken

Do you believe that no god exists or just certain ones?

There is nothing that I would call God that exists. There are plenty of things other people might call God that only a fool would say does not exist. Many people call the Sun God; of course the Sun exist, but I don't call it God; I call it a star. Many call Nature God, of course nature exist, but I don't call it God I all it the environment. In Hindu "Kumari" is believed to be the incarnate of one of their Gods and is worshipped. I don 't call Kumari a God, just human being. I am even open to the possibility of aliens perhaps from another planet coming to Earth, observed by primitive man and the stories eventually leading to belief in Gods. But because there is nothing that exists that I would call God, I am called atheist.
Hope that answers your question

Ken
Benshapiro
Posts: 4,116
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10/15/2016 2:25:10 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 8:51:40 AM, Stronn wrote:
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.

What evidence leads you to believe that a three-headed alien is not sitting on my shoulder telling me what to type?

Inductively, no one has ever seen a three headed alien. This empirical verification of non-existence is evidence of absence.

Having never encountered a three-headed alien, and lacking any reliable evidence that three-headed aliens are anything but an invention of imagination, it is reasonable to dismiss any assertion made about three-headed aliens. The same standard applies to to religious claims. As Hitchens put it, what can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

"Dismissed" has ambiguous meaning. Does it mean to be rejected as untrue or false? Or does it mean to remain merely non-acceptant of the claim? Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

When it comes to religious assertions, theists routinely portray their dismissal as a positive belief, just as you are doing. But when it comes to existential assertions, non-belief is the only reasonable default position. For one thing, believing all claims until evidence arose to disprove them would lead to logical contradictions in the face of contradictory claims.

We shouldn't believe all claims until evidence arises to dispove them. If there's no evidenve to support a claim we should remain non-acceptant of it pending further information. We shouldn't reject a claim that has no evidence to indicate whether it's true or false as a false claim.

The strength of evidence required to reasonably move from the default position varies, of course. A simple assertion may be enough to reasonably move from the default position if, say, someone tells you they had a tuna sandwich for lunch. But if someone tells you they saw a three-headed alien, you would require much more than their word for it. The more fantastic the claim, the stronger the evidence required to reasonably move from the default position. And what could be more fantastic than the claims made by religion?

What about the claim that God exists in the broad sense? "An intelligent designer of the universe exists". Is that a fantastic claim?
Benshapiro
Posts: 4,116
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10/15/2016 2:26:55 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 10/15/2016 9:49:17 AM, Looncall wrote:
At 10/15/2016 1:25:29 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 10/15/2016 1:23:54 AM, Looncall wrote:
At 10/15/2016 12:42:36 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
If you consider yourself someone who has no position on God's existence this isn't directed towards you.

Religion seems to me to be obviously a primitive hypothesis about reality hatched during humanity's ignorant childhood.

It is also clear to me that it has persisted only because it has been cleverly promoted by clergy for their own benefit.

Religion and belief in God are mutually exclusive. Why treat them as if they aren't?

What? Aren't most religions explicitly about believing in god(s)?
Please explain.

People can be irreligious and believe in God. I'm sure most religions believe in God, but that's looking at it the other way around. This only concerns theism/atheism, not religion.