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Inspiration

DanneJeRusse
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10/16/2016 3:24:59 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
I, among others here, have been told by believers that non-believers who agree with science are merely following the ideas and words of men. When it is pointed out that their holy books were written by men and that they too follow the ideas and words of men, they respond by claiming their God "inspired" those men to write their holy books.

How does the believer define "inspired"? Is God actually dictating word for word and the men are just writing them down like some glorified secretary? Or, are the men merely writing down what they believe to be true about God as an artist or poet would be inspired by something they saw or heard? How does this whole "inspiration" thingy work?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,585
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10/16/2016 3:34:59 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 3:24:59 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
I, among others here, have been told by believers that non-believers who agree with science are merely following the ideas and words of men. When it is pointed out that their holy books were written by men and that they too follow the ideas and words of men, they respond by claiming their God "inspired" those men to write their holy books.

How does the believer define "inspired"? Is God actually dictating word for word and the men are just writing them down like some glorified secretary? Or, are the men merely writing down what they believe to be true about God as an artist or poet would be inspired by something they saw or heard? How does this whole "inspiration" thingy work?

Good question, I've never explored the question very much myself. But here's my starting point.

1. The English term "inspired" appears five times in the NIV, none of which refer to explicitly to scripture.
2. Scripture is also specifically described as "God-breathed" in Timothy 3:16
3. The greek term used in Timothy and translated as "inspired" in English is defined here: https://billmounce.com...

An article by an expert on Greek and the Bible is here, it's interesting:

https://bible.org...
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,315
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10/16/2016 4:25:52 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
Interesting to note, most genius inspirations from the greatest scientific and mathematical minds in the history of civilization, claim their brilliant discoveries were given to them in their dreams by higher powers.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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10/16/2016 4:30:15 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 3:34:59 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
At 10/16/2016 3:24:59 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
I, among others here, have been told by believers that non-believers who agree with science are merely following the ideas and words of men. When it is pointed out that their holy books were written by men and that they too follow the ideas and words of men, they respond by claiming their God "inspired" those men to write their holy books.

How does the believer define "inspired"? Is God actually dictating word for word and the men are just writing them down like some glorified secretary? Or, are the men merely writing down what they believe to be true about God as an artist or poet would be inspired by something they saw or heard? How does this whole "inspiration" thingy work?

Good question, I've never explored the question very much myself. But here's my starting point.

Thank you for pursuing this, Harry.

1. The English term "inspired" appears five times in the NIV, none of which refer to explicitly to scripture.

That's interesting, perhaps that has confused those theists who make the claim of inspiration of the authors of the Bible.

2. Scripture is also specifically described as "God-breathed" in Timothy 3:16
3. The greek term used in Timothy and translated as "inspired" in English is defined here: https://billmounce.com...

That definition has the phrase, " inspired by God, referring to a communication from deity" which would indicate more of a dictation, word for word commentary provided by God to the authors. This would be similar to Muhammad and the Quran, except for the clear distinction of the middle man, Gabriel.

An article by an expert on Greek and the Bible is here, it's interesting:

https://bible.org...

Long article, if you've read it, can you provide the relevant quotes?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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10/16/2016 4:30:58 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 4:25:52 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
Interesting to note, most genius inspirations from the greatest scientific and mathematical minds in the history of civilization, claim their brilliant discoveries were given to them in their dreams by higher powers.

Such as?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,315
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10/16/2016 4:48:01 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 4:30:58 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 4:25:52 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
Interesting to note, most genius inspirations from the greatest scientific and mathematical minds in the history of civilization, claim their brilliant discoveries were given to them in their dreams by higher powers.

Such as?

Let's just keep that as a little homework assignment for you to return with the answers to prove you're not just a shill. This way you can avoid the easy research and keep the extra time to insult me. You can begin by telling me how the likes of me and other believers have been relentlessly hounding you with our religions, even when almost all threads created in this forum are made by snarling atheists trying force down our throats their doctrines of coincidence, created by chance in the strict worlds of unwavering mathematics.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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10/16/2016 5:00:33 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 4:48:01 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/16/2016 4:30:58 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 4:25:52 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
Interesting to note, most genius inspirations from the greatest scientific and mathematical minds in the history of civilization, claim their brilliant discoveries were given to them in their dreams by higher powers.

Such as?

Let's just keep that as a little homework assignment for you to return with the answers to prove you're not just a shill. This way you can avoid the easy research and keep the extra time to insult me. You can begin by telling me how the likes of me and other believers have been relentlessly hounding you with our religions, even when almost all threads created in this forum are made by snarling atheists trying force down our throats their doctrines of coincidence, created by chance in the strict worlds of unwavering mathematics.

So, no one, then? Your statement was merely emotional self-indulgence?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,315
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10/16/2016 5:19:44 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 5:00:33 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 4:48:01 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/16/2016 4:30:58 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 4:25:52 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
Interesting to note, most genius inspirations from the greatest scientific and mathematical minds in the history of civilization, claim their brilliant discoveries were given to them in their dreams by higher powers.

Such as?

Let's just keep that as a little homework assignment for you to return with the answers to prove you're not just a shill. This way you can avoid the easy research and keep the extra time to insult me. You can begin by telling me how the likes of me and other believers have been relentlessly hounding you with our religions, even when almost all threads created in this forum are made by snarling atheists trying force down our throats their doctrines of coincidence, created by chance in the strict worlds of unwavering mathematics.

So, no one, then? Your statement was merely emotional self-indulgence?

Actually there is an abundant amount of information to my given suggestion. I'm just testing your intellectual aptitude and basic virtues to become a decent person, other than all your shilling years spent here in the religion forum, complaining about how religion won't leave you alone, trying to tell you what to think, what to believe, as all I've seen and can count are the infinitude of fervent hatred for the things you cannot understand. So I'm just trying to help you along with a little nudge here and there, that says there might be something of value to this and that, if you care to take the time to examine it.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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10/16/2016 5:22:56 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 5:19:44 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/16/2016 5:00:33 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 4:48:01 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/16/2016 4:30:58 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 4:25:52 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
Interesting to note, most genius inspirations from the greatest scientific and mathematical minds in the history of civilization, claim their brilliant discoveries were given to them in their dreams by higher powers.

Such as?

Let's just keep that as a little homework assignment for you to return with the answers to prove you're not just a shill. This way you can avoid the easy research and keep the extra time to insult me. You can begin by telling me how the likes of me and other believers have been relentlessly hounding you with our religions, even when almost all threads created in this forum are made by snarling atheists trying force down our throats their doctrines of coincidence, created by chance in the strict worlds of unwavering mathematics.

So, no one, then? Your statement was merely emotional self-indulgence?

Actually there is an abundant amount of information to my given suggestion. I'm just testing your intellectual aptitude and basic virtues to become a decent person, other than all your shilling years spent here in the religion forum, complaining about how religion won't leave you alone, trying to tell you what to think, what to believe, as all I've seen and can count are the infinitude of fervent hatred for the things you cannot understand. So I'm just trying to help you along with a little nudge here and there, that says there might be something of value to this and that, if you care to take the time to examine it.

I'd be happy to examine the examples you offer to support your claim, if indeed, you provide examples.

Will I run off and do your homework for you? Probably not.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,379
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10/16/2016 5:48:44 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 3:24:59 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
I, among others here, have been told by believers that non-believers who agree with science are merely following the ideas and words of men. When it is pointed out that their holy books were written by men and that they too follow the ideas and words of men, they respond by claiming their God "inspired" those men to write their holy books.

How does the believer define "inspired"? Is God actually dictating word for word and the men are just writing them down like some glorified secretary? Or, are the men merely writing down what they believe to be true about God as an artist or poet would be inspired by something they saw or heard? How does this whole "inspiration" thingy work?
it wasn't done by automatic writing, or hearing a voice telling them what to write.

One way to try and describe it, since the Bible makes reference to their significance, is to apply an analogy to a child.

A teacher may be inspired to inspire a child to sing the national anthem at a given event.. Will the imperfect human/child do a perfect job? Of course not. Will the child's rendition of the national anthem do it's job in front of a crowd of patriotic listeners? Absolutely. More the than likely the child, way off key at times, will bring the audience to a standing ovation.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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10/16/2016 6:10:49 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 5:48:44 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 10/16/2016 3:24:59 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
I, among others here, have been told by believers that non-believers who agree with science are merely following the ideas and words of men. When it is pointed out that their holy books were written by men and that they too follow the ideas and words of men, they respond by claiming their God "inspired" those men to write their holy books.

How does the believer define "inspired"? Is God actually dictating word for word and the men are just writing them down like some glorified secretary? Or, are the men merely writing down what they believe to be true about God as an artist or poet would be inspired by something they saw or heard? How does this whole "inspiration" thingy work?
it wasn't done by automatic writing, or hearing a voice telling them what to write.

One way to try and describe it, since the Bible makes reference to their significance, is to apply an analogy to a child.

A teacher may be inspired to inspire a child to sing the national anthem at a given event.. Will the imperfect human/child do a perfect job? Of course not. Will the child's rendition of the national anthem do it's job in front of a crowd of patriotic listeners? Absolutely. More the than likely the child, way off key at times, will bring the audience to a standing ovation.

What you have just described, Rod, is the a serious flaw in the method God would choose to relay his message to all mankind.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,585
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10/16/2016 6:48:04 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 6:10:49 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 5:48:44 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 10/16/2016 3:24:59 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
I, among others here, have been told by believers that non-believers who agree with science are merely following the ideas and words of men. When it is pointed out that their holy books were written by men and that they too follow the ideas and words of men, they respond by claiming their God "inspired" those men to write their holy books.

How does the believer define "inspired"? Is God actually dictating word for word and the men are just writing them down like some glorified secretary? Or, are the men merely writing down what they believe to be true about God as an artist or poet would be inspired by something they saw or heard? How does this whole "inspiration" thingy work?
it wasn't done by automatic writing, or hearing a voice telling them what to write.

One way to try and describe it, since the Bible makes reference to their significance, is to apply an analogy to a child.

A teacher may be inspired to inspire a child to sing the national anthem at a given event.. Will the imperfect human/child do a perfect job? Of course not. Will the child's rendition of the national anthem do it's job in front of a crowd of patriotic listeners? Absolutely. More the than likely the child, way off key at times, will bring the audience to a standing ovation.

What you have just described, Rod, is the a serious flaw in the method God would choose to relay his message to all mankind.

Why do you think that was God's intention? (Granted God doesn't exist for you, so indulge me what makes you think that's what the book says).
rnjs
Posts: 380
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10/16/2016 7:22:11 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 6:10:49 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 5:48:44 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 10/16/2016 3:24:59 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
I, among others here, have been told by believers that non-believers who agree with science are merely following the ideas and words of men. When it is pointed out that their holy books were written by men and that they too follow the ideas and words of men, they respond by claiming their God "inspired" those men to write their holy books.

How does the believer define "inspired"? Is God actually dictating word for word and the men are just writing them down like some glorified secretary? Or, are the men merely writing down what they believe to be true about God as an artist or poet would be inspired by something they saw or heard? How does this whole "inspiration" thingy work?
it wasn't done by automatic writing, or hearing a voice telling them what to write.

One way to try and describe it, since the Bible makes reference to their significance, is to apply an analogy to a child.

A teacher may be inspired to inspire a child to sing the national anthem at a given event.. Will the imperfect human/child do a perfect job? Of course not. Will the child's rendition of the national anthem do it's job in front of a crowd of patriotic listeners? Absolutely. More the than likely the child, way off key at times, will bring the audience to a standing ovation.

What you have just described, Rod, is the a serious flaw in the method God would choose to relay his message to all mankind.

That child could have given a perfect performance, just as a fallible man could write a book that is free of spelling mistakes, grammatical, factual and other errors, so there is not necessarily any flaw in Gods method.
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,315
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10/16/2016 7:39:57 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 5:22:56 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 5:19:44 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/16/2016 5:00:33 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 4:48:01 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/16/2016 4:30:58 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 4:25:52 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
Interesting to note, most genius inspirations from the greatest scientific and mathematical minds in the history of civilization, claim their brilliant discoveries were given to them in their dreams by higher powers.

Such as?

Let's just keep that as a little homework assignment for you to return with the answers to prove you're not just a shill. This way you can avoid the easy research and keep the extra time to insult me. You can begin by telling me how the likes of me and other believers have been relentlessly hounding you with our religions, even when almost all threads created in this forum are made by snarling atheists trying force down our throats their doctrines of coincidence, created by chance in the strict worlds of unwavering mathematics.

So, no one, then? Your statement was merely emotional self-indulgence?

Actually there is an abundant amount of information to my given suggestion. I'm just testing your intellectual aptitude and basic virtues to become a decent person, other than all your shilling years spent here in the religion forum, complaining about how religion won't leave you alone, trying to tell you what to think, what to believe, as all I've seen and can count are the infinitude of fervent hatred for the things you cannot understand. So I'm just trying to help you along with a little nudge here and there, that says there might be something of value to this and that, if you care to take the time to examine it.

I'd be happy to examine the examples you offer to support your claim, if indeed, you provide examples.

Will I run off and do your homework for you? Probably not.

Try not to look at this as my homework. It's not. I can list off the top of my head several well known geniuses that publically admitted to receiving their ideas from higher powers, such as spirits or goddesses or unknown forces from beyond the physical. It's not difficult to research this. I'm challenging you to do this to prove you not a shill. If you are not a shill and still cannot motivate yourself to search for these truths, you are then to be seen as an idiot. But you're not an idiot. You're a despicable disinformationist. You're a paid shill that sold his integrity to promote the global agenda for a unified world religion. A hired atheist used to exploit his passion for intellectual irrationality, is this you just being one of legions of your kind.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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10/16/2016 7:48:14 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 7:22:11 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 10/16/2016 6:10:49 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 5:48:44 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 10/16/2016 3:24:59 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
I, among others here, have been told by believers that non-believers who agree with science are merely following the ideas and words of men. When it is pointed out that their holy books were written by men and that they too follow the ideas and words of men, they respond by claiming their God "inspired" those men to write their holy books.

How does the believer define "inspired"? Is God actually dictating word for word and the men are just writing them down like some glorified secretary? Or, are the men merely writing down what they believe to be true about God as an artist or poet would be inspired by something they saw or heard? How does this whole "inspiration" thingy work?
it wasn't done by automatic writing, or hearing a voice telling them what to write.

One way to try and describe it, since the Bible makes reference to their significance, is to apply an analogy to a child.

A teacher may be inspired to inspire a child to sing the national anthem at a given event.. Will the imperfect human/child do a perfect job? Of course not. Will the child's rendition of the national anthem do it's job in front of a crowd of patriotic listeners? Absolutely. More the than likely the child, way off key at times, will bring the audience to a standing ovation.

What you have just described, Rod, is the a serious flaw in the method God would choose to relay his message to all mankind.

That child could have given a perfect performance, just as a fallible man could write a book that is free of spelling mistakes, grammatical, factual and other errors, so there is not necessarily any flaw in Gods method.

I think your example doesn't really capture the scope of the authors of the Bible. We already know what the words are in the national anthem, what the notes are and the many examples of it being sung in public.

This is not the same thing as writing a book for the first time. We can easily make comparisons of someone singing the anthem, what comparisons can we make for the Bible? How would we ever know the Bible was factual? There's nothing to compare it to other than reality and our knowledge of the world around us.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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10/16/2016 7:49:25 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 7:39:57 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/16/2016 5:22:56 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 5:19:44 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/16/2016 5:00:33 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 4:48:01 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/16/2016 4:30:58 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 4:25:52 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
Interesting to note, most genius inspirations from the greatest scientific and mathematical minds in the history of civilization, claim their brilliant discoveries were given to them in their dreams by higher powers.

Such as?

Let's just keep that as a little homework assignment for you to return with the answers to prove you're not just a shill. This way you can avoid the easy research and keep the extra time to insult me. You can begin by telling me how the likes of me and other believers have been relentlessly hounding you with our religions, even when almost all threads created in this forum are made by snarling atheists trying force down our throats their doctrines of coincidence, created by chance in the strict worlds of unwavering mathematics.

So, no one, then? Your statement was merely emotional self-indulgence?

Actually there is an abundant amount of information to my given suggestion. I'm just testing your intellectual aptitude and basic virtues to become a decent person, other than all your shilling years spent here in the religion forum, complaining about how religion won't leave you alone, trying to tell you what to think, what to believe, as all I've seen and can count are the infinitude of fervent hatred for the things you cannot understand. So I'm just trying to help you along with a little nudge here and there, that says there might be something of value to this and that, if you care to take the time to examine it.

I'd be happy to examine the examples you offer to support your claim, if indeed, you provide examples.

Will I run off and do your homework for you? Probably not.

Try not to look at this as my homework. It's not.

Yeah, it is.

I can list off the top of my head several well known geniuses that publically admitted to receiving their ideas from higher powers, such as spirits or goddesses or unknown forces from beyond the physical. It's not difficult to research this. I'm challenging you to do this to prove you not a shill. If you are not a shill and still cannot motivate yourself to search for these truths, you are then to be seen as an idiot. But you're not an idiot. You're a despicable disinformationist. You're a paid shill that sold his integrity to promote the global agenda for a unified world religion. A hired atheist used to exploit his passion for intellectual irrationality, is this you just being one of legions of your kind.

So, no examples to support your claim?? Okee dokee, then.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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10/16/2016 7:51:12 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 6:48:04 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
At 10/16/2016 6:10:49 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 5:48:44 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 10/16/2016 3:24:59 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
I, among others here, have been told by believers that non-believers who agree with science are merely following the ideas and words of men. When it is pointed out that their holy books were written by men and that they too follow the ideas and words of men, they respond by claiming their God "inspired" those men to write their holy books.

How does the believer define "inspired"? Is God actually dictating word for word and the men are just writing them down like some glorified secretary? Or, are the men merely writing down what they believe to be true about God as an artist or poet would be inspired by something they saw or heard? How does this whole "inspiration" thingy work?
it wasn't done by automatic writing, or hearing a voice telling them what to write.

One way to try and describe it, since the Bible makes reference to their significance, is to apply an analogy to a child.

A teacher may be inspired to inspire a child to sing the national anthem at a given event.. Will the imperfect human/child do a perfect job? Of course not. Will the child's rendition of the national anthem do it's job in front of a crowd of patriotic listeners? Absolutely. More the than likely the child, way off key at times, will bring the audience to a standing ovation.

What you have just described, Rod, is the a serious flaw in the method God would choose to relay his message to all mankind.

Why do you think that was God's intention? (Granted God doesn't exist for you, so indulge me what makes you think that's what the book says).

https://www.openbible.info...
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Archaholic
Posts: 255
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10/16/2016 8:00:01 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
It is much more like an artist going through an event or experience, and then depict what he just experiended on a, let's say, canvas.

For instance, the book of revelation is based on the experience of John, probably in a dream he had.

Others wrote the verses according to their life experience and their understanding of the world. That is why we need to interpret it according to the life of those times.

I've got to remark that those writers were not common people, but rather authorities on the matter.

BR
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,315
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10/16/2016 8:01:42 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 7:49:25 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 7:39:57 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/16/2016 5:22:56 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 5:19:44 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/16/2016 5:00:33 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 4:48:01 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/16/2016 4:30:58 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 4:25:52 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
Interesting to note, most genius inspirations from the greatest scientific and mathematical minds in the history of civilization, claim their brilliant discoveries were given to them in their dreams by higher powers.

Such as?

Let's just keep that as a little homework assignment for you to return with the answers to prove you're not just a shill. This way you can avoid the easy research and keep the extra time to insult me. You can begin by telling me how the likes of me and other believers have been relentlessly hounding you with our religions, even when almost all threads created in this forum are made by snarling atheists trying force down our throats their doctrines of coincidence, created by chance in the strict worlds of unwavering mathematics.

So, no one, then? Your statement was merely emotional self-indulgence?

Actually there is an abundant amount of information to my given suggestion. I'm just testing your intellectual aptitude and basic virtues to become a decent person, other than all your shilling years spent here in the religion forum, complaining about how religion won't leave you alone, trying to tell you what to think, what to believe, as all I've seen and can count are the infinitude of fervent hatred for the things you cannot understand. So I'm just trying to help you along with a little nudge here and there, that says there might be something of value to this and that, if you care to take the time to examine it.

I'd be happy to examine the examples you offer to support your claim, if indeed, you provide examples.

Will I run off and do your homework for you? Probably not.

Try not to look at this as my homework. It's not.

Yeah, it is.

I can list off the top of my head several well known geniuses that publically admitted to receiving their ideas from higher powers, such as spirits or goddesses or unknown forces from beyond the physical. It's not difficult to research this. I'm challenging you to do this to prove you not a shill. If you are not a shill and still cannot motivate yourself to search for these truths, you are then to be seen as an idiot. But you're not an idiot. You're a despicable disinformationist. You're a paid shill that sold his integrity to promote the global agenda for a unified world religion. A hired atheist used to exploit his passion for intellectual irrationality, is this you just being one of legions of your kind.

So, no examples to support your claim?? Okee dokee, then.

Wow you're still here. It's like every time I log on you're still here. How many hours a week do you work? I hope you get paid overtime for working on a Sunday. I hope you're not getting paid by the post, because that would be cheap. Or expensive. I'm not sure how to look at this. Have you looked at this? My claims. I don't need to support them. The fact that I even made the claim suggests I've already done the research to support it. Do you have memory problems? We've had this discussion before. Two years ago. Under a different name I listed many names of geniuses that made supernatural claims for their inspirations, and here you go acting like this is something you've never heard of. Typical shilling. Pathetic.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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10/16/2016 8:04:30 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 8:01:42 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
My claims. I don't need to support them. Typical shilling. Pathetic.

You said it, bud.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DanneJeRusse
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10/16/2016 8:05:46 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 8:00:01 PM, Archaholic wrote:
It is much more like an artist going through an event or experience, and then depict what he just experiended on a, let's say, canvas.

For instance, the book of revelation is based on the experience of John, probably in a dream he had.

Others wrote the verses according to their life experience and their understanding of the world. That is why we need to interpret it according to the life of those times.

I've got to remark that those writers were not common people, but rather authorities on the matter.

What makes them authorities?

BR
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,315
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10/16/2016 8:13:25 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 8:04:30 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 8:01:42 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
My claims. I don't need to support them. Typical shilling. Pathetic.

You said it, bud.

Easy buddy. It's moves like that, that make people's bank accounts disappear.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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10/16/2016 8:29:12 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 8:13:25 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/16/2016 8:04:30 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 8:01:42 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
My claims. I don't need to support them. Typical shilling. Pathetic.

You said it, bud.

Easy buddy. It's moves like that, that make people's bank accounts disappear.

So, you're threatening to hack bank accounts now? You do realize that reporting you to the authorities will land you in jail for making such threats?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,315
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10/16/2016 8:38:24 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 8:29:12 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 8:13:25 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/16/2016 8:04:30 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 8:01:42 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
My claims. I don't need to support them. Typical shilling. Pathetic.

You said it, bud.

Easy buddy. It's moves like that, that make people's bank accounts disappear.

So, you're threatening to hack bank accounts now? You do realize that reporting you to the authorities will land you in jail for making such threats?

If that's how you interpreted what was said, then go ahead and see what happens. I feel pretty good about it.
lightseeker
Posts: 1,026
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10/16/2016 8:42:58 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 3:24:59 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
I, among others here, have been told by believers that non-believers who agree with science are merely following the ideas and words of men. When it is pointed out that their holy books were written by men and that they too follow the ideas and words of men, they respond by claiming their God "inspired" those men to write their holy books.

How does the believer define "inspired"? Is God actually dictating word for word and the men are just writing them down like some glorified secretary? Or, are the men merely writing down what they believe to be true about God as an artist or poet would be inspired by something they saw or heard? How does this whole "inspiration" thingy work?

want to find out why we think Quran is word of God?

after 1400 years, no one has been able to bring one verse like those of Quran.
and Quran clearly invites people to try to do so, and declares that they'll never be able to do that.

the style of Quran is unique to itself.
DanneJeRusse
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10/16/2016 9:19:50 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 8:42:58 PM, lightseeker wrote:
At 10/16/2016 3:24:59 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
I, among others here, have been told by believers that non-believers who agree with science are merely following the ideas and words of men. When it is pointed out that their holy books were written by men and that they too follow the ideas and words of men, they respond by claiming their God "inspired" those men to write their holy books.

How does the believer define "inspired"? Is God actually dictating word for word and the men are just writing them down like some glorified secretary? Or, are the men merely writing down what they believe to be true about God as an artist or poet would be inspired by something they saw or heard? How does this whole "inspiration" thingy work?

want to find out why we think Quran is word of God?

after 1400 years, no one has been able to bring one verse like those of Quran.
and Quran clearly invites people to try to do so, and declares that they'll never be able to do that.

the style of Quran is unique to itself.

LOL. That doesn't mean anything.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,379
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10/16/2016 9:30:01 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 6:10:49 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 5:48:44 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 10/16/2016 3:24:59 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
I, among others here, have been told by believers that non-believers who agree with science are merely following the ideas and words of men. When it is pointed out that their holy books were written by men and that they too follow the ideas and words of men, they respond by claiming their God "inspired" those men to write their holy books.

How does the believer define "inspired"? Is God actually dictating word for word and the men are just writing them down like some glorified secretary? Or, are the men merely writing down what they believe to be true about God as an artist or poet would be inspired by something they saw or heard? How does this whole "inspiration" thingy work?
it wasn't done by automatic writing, or hearing a voice telling them what to write.

One way to try and describe it, since the Bible makes reference to their significance, is to apply an analogy to a child.

A teacher may be inspired to inspire a child to sing the national anthem at a given event.. Will the imperfect human/child do a perfect job? Of course not. Will the child's rendition of the national anthem do it's job in front of a crowd of patriotic listeners? Absolutely. More the than likely the child, way off key at times, will bring the audience to a standing ovation.

What you have just described, Rod, is the a serious flaw in the method God would choose to relay his message to all mankind.
if a child with an untrained voice sings the national anthem, and the end result is perfect (creating a patriotic atmosphere), where's the flaw in said method of choosing a patriotic child to sing the NA?
DanneJeRusse
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10/16/2016 9:31:56 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 8:42:58 PM, lightseeker wrote:
At 10/16/2016 3:24:59 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
I, among others here, have been told by believers that non-believers who agree with science are merely following the ideas and words of men. When it is pointed out that their holy books were written by men and that they too follow the ideas and words of men, they respond by claiming their God "inspired" those men to write their holy books.

How does the believer define "inspired"? Is God actually dictating word for word and the men are just writing them down like some glorified secretary? Or, are the men merely writing down what they believe to be true about God as an artist or poet would be inspired by something they saw or heard? How does this whole "inspiration" thingy work?

want to find out why we think Quran is word of God?

after 1400 years, no one has been able to bring one verse like those of Quran.
and Quran clearly invites people to try to do so, and declares that they'll never be able to do that.

the style of Quran is unique to itself.

As are childrens books by Dr. Seuss.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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10/16/2016 9:34:43 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 9:30:01 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 10/16/2016 6:10:49 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 5:48:44 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 10/16/2016 3:24:59 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
I, among others here, have been told by believers that non-believers who agree with science are merely following the ideas and words of men. When it is pointed out that their holy books were written by men and that they too follow the ideas and words of men, they respond by claiming their God "inspired" those men to write their holy books.

How does the believer define "inspired"? Is God actually dictating word for word and the men are just writing them down like some glorified secretary? Or, are the men merely writing down what they believe to be true about God as an artist or poet would be inspired by something they saw or heard? How does this whole "inspiration" thingy work?
it wasn't done by automatic writing, or hearing a voice telling them what to write.

One way to try and describe it, since the Bible makes reference to their significance, is to apply an analogy to a child.

A teacher may be inspired to inspire a child to sing the national anthem at a given event.. Will the imperfect human/child do a perfect job? Of course not. Will the child's rendition of the national anthem do it's job in front of a crowd of patriotic listeners? Absolutely. More the than likely the child, way off key at times, will bring the audience to a standing ovation.

What you have just described, Rod, is the a serious flaw in the method God would choose to relay his message to all mankind.
if a child with an untrained voice sings the national anthem, and the end result is perfect (creating a patriotic atmosphere),

And, your definition of perfect here is what, exactly? And, you are comparing this perfection to what, exactly? And, the chances of a child with an untrained voice singing that "perfectly" is what, exactly?

And, what does it have to do with writing a book?

where's the flaw in said method of choosing a patriotic child to sing the NA?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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10/16/2016 9:35:56 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 8:38:24 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/16/2016 8:29:12 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 8:13:25 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/16/2016 8:04:30 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/16/2016 8:01:42 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
My claims. I don't need to support them. Typical shilling. Pathetic.

You said it, bud.

Easy buddy. It's moves like that, that make people's bank accounts disappear.

So, you're threatening to hack bank accounts now? You do realize that reporting you to the authorities will land you in jail for making such threats?

If that's how you interpreted what was said, then go ahead and see what happens. I feel pretty good about it.

You are insane. How's that?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth