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Leaning towards simulation theory over theism

Benshapiro
Posts: 3,955
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10/22/2016 12:27:30 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
Why? Because of the free will problem.

If God knows everything, then people couldn't have chosen otherwise. Okay, let's assume that it's logically impossible for God to foreknow the choices of free beings.

If people are appropriated free will according to their specific situation, then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? There wouldn't be such thing as knowing the specific situation of an individual unless God has foreknowledge of the specific situation of that person which, situationally, must depend on free choices.
janesix
Posts: 3,446
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10/22/2016 12:42:04 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 12:27:30 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why? Because of the free will problem.

If God knows everything, then people couldn't have chosen otherwise. Okay, let's assume that it's logically impossible for God to foreknow the choices of free beings.

Why does god necessarily have to know everything? And why is the alternative simulation?

If people are appropriated free will according to their specific situation, then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? There wouldn't be such thing as knowing the specific situation of an individual unless God has foreknowledge of the specific situation of that person which, situationally, must depend on free choices.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,955
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10/22/2016 12:45:11 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 12:42:04 AM, janesix wrote:
At 10/22/2016 12:27:30 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why? Because of the free will problem.

If God knows everything, then people couldn't have chosen otherwise. Okay, let's assume that it's logically impossible for God to foreknow the choices of free beings.

Why does god necessarily have to know everything? And why is the alternative simulation?

If people are appropriated free will according to their specific situation, then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? There wouldn't be such thing as knowing the specific situation of an individual unless God has foreknowledge of the specific situation of that person which, situationally, must depend on free choices.

For remaining morally relevant. Alternative being simulation theory because reality, according to quantum mechanics and logic, is the result of information processing.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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10/22/2016 3:10:13 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 12:27:30 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why? Because of the free will problem.

If God knows everything, then people couldn't have chosen otherwise. Okay, let's assume that it's logically impossible for God to foreknow the choices of free beings.

If people are appropriated free will according to their specific situation, then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? There wouldn't be such thing as knowing the specific situation of an individual unless God has foreknowledge of the specific situation of that person which, situationally, must depend on free choices.

Yes, I agree that the concept of free will contradicts the idea of a god, at least an interventionist one.

Obviously, the fact that we exist at all is extremely weird. I have no idea what the explanation is but I think it is safe to rule out the idea of an interventionist god.
Witness2U
Posts: 43
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10/22/2016 9:52:47 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 12:27:30 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why? Because of the free will problem.

If God knows everything, then people couldn't have chosen otherwise. Okay, let's assume that it's logically impossible for God to foreknow the choices of free beings.

If people are appropriated free will according to their specific situation, then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? There wouldn't be such thing as knowing the specific situation of an individual unless God has foreknowledge of the specific situation of that person which, situationally, must depend on free choices. : :

This is what God has revealed to me this past 8 years my friend.
https://goddeception.wordpress.com...
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
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10/22/2016 10:00:25 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
I remember when he used to claim that his shag was the best fuk in the universe and that he was a eunuch, talk about laugh.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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10/22/2016 10:27:43 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
I find simulation theory an interesting case. Not just for the obvious reasons, but as a distinctive perspective on the theist debate. Do you consider it a theist position?
Witness2U
Posts: 43
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10/22/2016 10:35:53 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 12:27:30 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why? Because of the free will problem.

If God knows everything, then people couldn't have chosen otherwise. Okay, let's assume that it's logically impossible for God to foreknow the choices of free beings.

If people are appropriated free will according to their specific situation, then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? There wouldn't be such thing as knowing the specific situation of an individual unless God has foreknowledge of the specific situation of that person which, situationally, must depend on free choices.

Amos 4
13: For lo, he who forms the mountains, and creates the wind, and declares to man what is his thought;

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Deuteronomy 32
39: "`See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.

Exodus 4:
10: But Moses said to the LORD, "Oh, my Lord, I am not eloquent, either heretofore or since thou hast spoken to thy servant; but I am slow of speech and of tongue."
11: Then the LORD said to him, "Who has made man's mouth? Who makes him dumb, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?
12: Now therefore go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall speak."

Psalm 33
8: Let all the earth fear the LORD, let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him!
9: For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood forth.
10: The LORD brings the counsel of the nations to nought; he frustrates the plans of the peoples.
11: The counsel of the LORD stands for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.
12: Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, the people whom he has chosen as his heritage!
13: The LORD looks down from heaven, he sees all the sons of men;
14: from where he sits enthroned he looks forth on all the inhabitants of the earth,
15: he who fashions the hearts of them all, and observes all their deeds.
16: A king is not saved by his great army; a warrior is not delivered by his great strength.
17: The war horse is a vain hope for victory, and by its great might it cannot save.

Psalm 92
5: How great are thy works, O LORD! Thy thoughts are very deep!
6: The dull man cannot know, the stupid cannot understand this:
7: that, though the wicked sprout like grass and all evildoers flourish, they are doomed to destruction for ever,
8: but thou, O LORD, art on high for ever.

Psalm 94
7: and they say, "The LORD does not see; the God of Jacob does not perceive."
8: Understand, O dullest of the people! Fools, when will you be wise?
9: He who planted the ear, does he not hear? He who formed the eye, does he not see?
10: He who chastens the nations, does he not chastise? He who teaches men knowledge,
11: the LORD, knows the thoughts of man, that they are but a breath.

Psalm 139
17: How precious to me are thy thoughts, O God! How vast is the sum of them!

God used the Tree of Life to convert his thoughts into a simulation program that we characters are a part of.
uncung
Posts: 3,442
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10/22/2016 11:35:34 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
If people are appropriated free will according to their specific situation, then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? There wouldn't be such thing as knowing the specific situation of an individual unless God has foreknowledge of the specific situation of that person which, situationally, must depend on free choices.

it is right. what is the problem to you then?
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,585
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10/22/2016 1:07:26 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 12:27:30 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why? Because of the free will problem.

If God knows everything, then people couldn't have chosen otherwise. Okay, let's assume that it's logically impossible for God to foreknow the choices of free beings.


But does free will equate to unpredictability?

If people are appropriated free will according to their specific situation, then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? There wouldn't be such thing as knowing the specific situation of an individual unless God has foreknowledge of the specific situation of that person which, situationally, must depend on free choices.
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
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10/22/2016 1:08:55 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 11:35:34 AM, uncung wrote:
If people are appropriated free will according to their specific situation, then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? There wouldn't be such thing as knowing the specific situation of an individual unless God has foreknowledge of the specific situation of that person which, situationally, must depend on free choices.

it is right. what is the problem to you then?
What's right?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
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10/22/2016 1:09:57 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 1:07:26 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
At 10/22/2016 12:27:30 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why? Because of the free will problem.

If God knows everything, then people couldn't have chosen otherwise. Okay, let's assume that it's logically impossible for God to foreknow the choices of free beings.


But does free will equate to unpredictability?

If people are appropriated free will according to their specific situation, then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? There wouldn't be such thing as knowing the specific situation of an individual unless God has foreknowledge of the specific situation of that person which, situationally, must depend on free choices.
Does free will involve proving an omniscient god wrong?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
uncung
Posts: 3,442
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10/22/2016 2:12:10 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 1:08:55 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/22/2016 11:35:34 AM, uncung wrote:
If people are appropriated free will according to their specific situation, then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? There wouldn't be such thing as knowing the specific situation of an individual unless God has foreknowledge of the specific situation of that person which, situationally, must depend on free choices.

it is right. what is the problem to you then?
What's right?

...then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? ..
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
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10/22/2016 2:22:44 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 2:12:10 PM, uncung wrote:
At 10/22/2016 1:08:55 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/22/2016 11:35:34 AM, uncung wrote:
If people are appropriated free will according to their specific situation, then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? There wouldn't be such thing as knowing the specific situation of an individual unless God has foreknowledge of the specific situation of that person which, situationally, must depend on free choices.

it is right. what is the problem to you then?
What's right?

...then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? ..
So you muslims have no free will, so why do you bother? Your god decided before creation whether you would go to heaven or hell, do you really think you can prove your god wrong? bwuahahahahaha
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
uncung
Posts: 3,442
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10/22/2016 10:15:08 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 2:22:44 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/22/2016 2:12:10 PM, uncung wrote:
At 10/22/2016 1:08:55 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/22/2016 11:35:34 AM, uncung wrote:
If people are appropriated free will according to their specific situation, then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? There wouldn't be such thing as knowing the specific situation of an individual unless God has foreknowledge of the specific situation of that person which, situationally, must depend on free choices.

it is right. what is the problem to you then?
What's right?

...then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? ..
So you muslims have no free will, so why do you bother? Your god decided before creation whether you would go to heaven or hell, do you really think you can prove your god wrong? bwuahahahahaha

We have a free will. You dont have to be a religious person to believe in it. You are free to do what you wish for. Free to eat, free to watch, to drink ad so on.
However you always choose what the God already decided for you, including decided before creation whether you would go to heaven or hell. You are being a disbeliever for instance was already predestined by the God. However it is also your choice to be a disbeliever at the same time.
None able to explain properly the overlapping between predestination or fate and free will since free will always follow predestination.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,606
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10/22/2016 10:31:02 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 10:15:08 PM, uncung wrote:
At 10/22/2016 2:22:44 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/22/2016 2:12:10 PM, uncung wrote:
At 10/22/2016 1:08:55 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/22/2016 11:35:34 AM, uncung wrote:
If people are appropriated free will according to their specific situation, then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? There wouldn't be such thing as knowing the specific situation of an individual unless God has foreknowledge of the specific situation of that person which, situationally, must depend on free choices.

it is right. what is the problem to you then?
What's right?

...then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? ..
So you muslims have no free will, so why do you bother? Your god decided before creation whether you would go to heaven or hell, do you really think you can prove your god wrong? bwuahahahahaha

We have a free will. You dont have to be a religious person to believe in it. You are free to do what you wish for. Free to eat, free to watch, to drink ad so on.
However you always choose what the God already decided for you

At what point in my life does God come to me with those choices and tell me what my predestined life was supposed to be?

including decided before creation whether you would go to heaven or hell. You are being a disbeliever for instance was already predestined by the God. However it is also your choice to be a disbeliever at the same time.
None able to explain properly the overlapping between predestination or fate and free will since free will always follow predestination.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Silly_Billy
Posts: 641
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10/22/2016 10:53:42 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 12:27:30 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why? Because of the free will problem.

If God knows everything, then people couldn't have chosen otherwise. Okay, let's assume that it's logically impossible for God to foreknow the choices of free beings.

If people are appropriated free will according to their specific situation, then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? There wouldn't be such thing as knowing the specific situation of an individual unless God has foreknowledge of the specific situation of that person which, situationally, must depend on free choices.

It seems to me that this theory has the same problem as any theist theory, namely that you need a creator who would have to have been created himself in order for it to exist so no matter how you look at it, somewhere and somehow nothing became something. It is possible that we are a simulation yes, it is even possible that a God has created everything that we know, but whatever the truth may be, nothing became something somewhere for us to exist.
uncung
Posts: 3,442
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10/22/2016 11:16:55 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 10:31:02 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/22/2016 10:15:08 PM, uncung wrote:
At 10/22/2016 2:22:44 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/22/2016 2:12:10 PM, uncung wrote:
At 10/22/2016 1:08:55 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/22/2016 11:35:34 AM, uncung wrote:
If people are appropriated free will according to their specific situation, then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? There wouldn't be such thing as knowing the specific situation of an individual unless God has foreknowledge of the specific situation of that person which, situationally, must depend on free choices.

it is right. what is the problem to you then?
What's right?

...then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? ..
So you muslims have no free will, so why do you bother? Your god decided before creation whether you would go to heaven or hell, do you really think you can prove your god wrong? bwuahahahahaha

We have a free will. You dont have to be a religious person to believe in it. You are free to do what you wish for. Free to eat, free to watch, to drink ad so on.
However you always choose what the God already decided for you

At what point in my life does God come to me with those choices and tell me what my predestined life was supposed to be?

including decided before creation whether you would go to heaven or hell. You are being a disbeliever for instance was already predestined by the God. However it is also your choice to be a disbeliever at the same time.
None able to explain properly the overlapping between predestination or fate and free will since free will always follow predestination.

I don't know what point it is.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,606
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10/23/2016 12:21:25 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 11:16:55 PM, uncung wrote:
At 10/22/2016 10:31:02 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/22/2016 10:15:08 PM, uncung wrote:
At 10/22/2016 2:22:44 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/22/2016 2:12:10 PM, uncung wrote:
At 10/22/2016 1:08:55 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/22/2016 11:35:34 AM, uncung wrote:
If people are appropriated free will according to their specific situation, then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? There wouldn't be such thing as knowing the specific situation of an individual unless God has foreknowledge of the specific situation of that person which, situationally, must depend on free choices.

it is right. what is the problem to you then?
What's right?

...then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? ..
So you muslims have no free will, so why do you bother? Your god decided before creation whether you would go to heaven or hell, do you really think you can prove your god wrong? bwuahahahahaha

We have a free will. You dont have to be a religious person to believe in it. You are free to do what you wish for. Free to eat, free to watch, to drink ad so on.
However you always choose what the God already decided for you

At what point in my life does God come to me with those choices and tell me what my predestined life was supposed to be?

including decided before creation whether you would go to heaven or hell. You are being a disbeliever for instance was already predestined by the God. However it is also your choice to be a disbeliever at the same time.
None able to explain properly the overlapping between predestination or fate and free will since free will always follow predestination.

I don't know what point it is.

I was asking a question, you said God has choices for me to make, when does God come down to ask me to make a decision on those choices? When does God tell me what my predestination is?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
uncung
Posts: 3,442
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10/23/2016 4:08:27 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/23/2016 12:21:25 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/22/2016 11:16:55 PM, uncung wrote:
At 10/22/2016 10:31:02 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/22/2016 10:15:08 PM, uncung wrote:
At 10/22/2016 2:22:44 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/22/2016 2:12:10 PM, uncung wrote:
At 10/22/2016 1:08:55 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/22/2016 11:35:34 AM, uncung wrote:
If people are appropriated free will according to their specific situation, then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? There wouldn't be such thing as knowing the specific situation of an individual unless God has foreknowledge of the specific situation of that person which, situationally, must depend on free choices.

it is right. what is the problem to you then?
What's right?

...then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? ..
So you muslims have no free will, so why do you bother? Your god decided before creation whether you would go to heaven or hell, do you really think you can prove your god wrong? bwuahahahahaha

We have a free will. You dont have to be a religious person to believe in it. You are free to do what you wish for. Free to eat, free to watch, to drink ad so on.
However you always choose what the God already decided for you

At what point in my life does God come to me with those choices and tell me what my predestined life was supposed to be?

including decided before creation whether you would go to heaven or hell. You are being a disbeliever for instance was already predestined by the God. However it is also your choice to be a disbeliever at the same time.
None able to explain properly the overlapping between predestination or fate and free will since free will always follow predestination.

I don't know what point it is.

I was asking a question, you said God has choices for me to make, when does God come down to ask me to make a decision on those choices? When does God tell me what my predestination is?

you make your own decision, since you are free to do what you wish for. God had never came down to ask you to make your decision. God predestined you before you born. He doesn't need to ask you whatsoever.
I said none able to combine free choice and predestination properly. However, they are the facts.
missmedic
Posts: 387
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10/23/2016 7:00:15 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 10:35:53 AM, Witness2U wrote:
At 10/22/2016 12:27:30 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why? Because of the free will problem.

If God knows everything, then people couldn't have chosen otherwise. Okay, let's assume that it's logically impossible for God to foreknow the choices of free beings.

If people are appropriated free will according to their specific situation, then God has already created a controlled environment for that person meaning that God had foreknowledge of the specific conditions for that individual. Do you see the problem? There wouldn't be such thing as knowing the specific situation of an individual unless God has foreknowledge of the specific situation of that person which, situationally, must depend on free choices.

Amos 4
Isaiah 45:7
Deuteronomy 32
39: "`: Exodus 4:
Psalm 33
God used the Tree of Life to convert his thoughts into a simulation program that we characters are a part of.

If you have to quote the bible to make your point your preaching not arguing. and no ones cares enough to read. Do you have any original thoughts of your own or just dogma?