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Christians Who Don't Believe in the Flood

dee-em
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10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?
Looncall
Posts: 460
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10/28/2016 11:02:14 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?

Since the bible looks like a collection of folk tales, racial and religious propaganda, and, yes, a bit of decent poetry, why would any sane person trust it?
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
dee-em
Posts: 6,481
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10/30/2016 7:43:42 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/28/2016 11:02:14 PM, Looncall wrote:
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?

Since the bible looks like a collection of folk tales, racial and religious propaganda, and, yes, a bit of decent poetry, why would any sane person trust it?

I suspect that you could open almost any page in the Bible and find something which simply makes no sense in the light of current knowledge about the world. Yet there are many Christians who claim it is inerrant!

Here we can't even find one who accepts that the Flood story is not literal. The Christians seem to have gone to ground. Too hard for them.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,872
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10/30/2016 8:59:02 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?
Worldwide evidence supports the flood scenario. Your predisposition to accept a time frame is what derails an objective view. If there were merely one continent at the time, as is believed, the removal of ground water from the earth could have resulted in the current make up of continents and mountains we currently see. Land and tectonic plates above places that are currently seeing a depletion of ground water have been observed as causing rapid land movement. Your worldview is circular reasoning in regards to time calculation, land formations, and numerous other assumptions that science is derived from. Four mass extinctions in the fossil record could easily be translated as one.
New information in the fossil record has always been suppressed or "wedged" into a worldview when it doesn't reflect evolutionists "delusions."
And before you misquote the Bible not all animals were called to be on the ark. The Bible says clearly only ones chosen by God and that animals were also killed in the flood. The phrase "breath of life" is often misinterpreted as meaning all land animals, it doesn't. It means the animals chosen by God to survive the flood hence been given the breath of life..I.e. continued living.
I'm not gonna respond to your appeals to authority in regards to sister isotopes etc. Science has never built a base to determine age and no scientific method of aging is even remotely a result of the "scientific method."
http://www.detectingdesign.com...
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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10/30/2016 9:32:36 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 8:59:02 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?
Worldwide evidence supports the flood scenario. Your predisposition to accept a time frame is what derails an objective view. If there were merely one continent at the time, as is believed, the removal of ground water from the earth could have resulted in the current make up of continents and mountains we currently see. Land and tectonic plates above places that are currently seeing a depletion of ground water have been observed as causing rapid land movement. Your worldview is circular reasoning in regards to time calculation, land formations, and numerous other assumptions that science is derived from. Four mass extinctions in the fossil record could easily be translated as one.
New information in the fossil record has always been suppressed or "wedged" into a worldview when it doesn't reflect evolutionists "delusions."
And before you misquote the Bible not all animals were called to be on the ark. The Bible says clearly only ones chosen by God and that animals were also killed in the flood. The phrase "breath of life" is often misinterpreted as meaning all land animals, it doesn't. It means the animals chosen by God to survive the flood hence been given the breath of life..I.e. continued living.
I'm not gonna respond to your appeals to authority in regards to sister isotopes etc. Science has never built a base to determine age and no scientific method of aging is even remotely a result of the "scientific method."
http://www.detectingdesign.com...
hahahahahahahahaha
No really
hahahahahahahahaha
Liveone
Posts: 64
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10/30/2016 9:58:28 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)? : :

The Lord isn't finished killing the flesh with the earth yet. God had promised Noah that he would kill all flesh with the earth. The flood of the earth killed many flesh of men but the fire that's coming soon will kill the rest of the flesh.

Genesis 6
7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

2 Peter 3
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
dee-em
Posts: 6,481
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10/31/2016 12:13:17 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 8:59:02 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:

There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?

Worldwide evidence supports the flood scenario.

Nope.

Your predisposition to accept a time frame is what derails an objective view. If there were merely one continent at the time, as is believed, the removal of ground water from the earth could have resulted in the current make up of continents and mountains we currently see.

Nope. Pangaea broke up 175 million years ago. Humans have only been around for 0.5 million years.

Land and tectonic plates above places that are currently seeing a depletion of ground water have been observed as causing rapid land movement. Your worldview is circular reasoning in regards to time calculation, land formations, and numerous other assumptions that science is derived from. Four mass extinctions in the fossil record could easily be translated as one.

Nope.

New information in the fossil record has always been suppressed or "wedged" into a worldview when it doesn't reflect evolutionists "delusions."

Nope.

And before you misquote the Bible not all animals were called to be on the ark. The Bible says clearly only ones chosen by God and that animals were also killed in the flood. The phrase "breath of life" is often misinterpreted as meaning all land animals, it doesn't. It means the animals chosen by God to survive the flood hence been given the breath of life..I.e. continued living.

Hilarious. Unfortunately this thread was not directed at dinosaur Christians like you.

I'm not gonna respond to your appeals to authority in regards to sister isotopes etc. Science has never built a base to determine age and no scientific method of aging is even remotely a result of the "scientific method."
http://www.detectingdesign.com...

Complete and utter garbage which has nothing to do with the topic.

Well done. You have managed to ignore the subject of this thread completely with your attempted derailing. What were you saying about reading comprehension in another thread?
Looncall
Posts: 460
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10/31/2016 12:34:04 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 9:58:28 AM, Liveone wrote:
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you andd with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)? : :

The Lord isn't finished killing the flesh with the earth yet. God had promised Noah that he would kill all flesh with the earth. The flood of the earth killed many flesh of men but the fire that's coming soon will kill the rest of the flesh.

Genesis 6
7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

2 Peter 3
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Disgusting piffle. A flood such as described would have left clear traces worldwide. None such are found. Ergo, there was no such flood. It's just a vile folk tale and religious propaganda.
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
PGA
Posts: 4,050
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10/31/2016 1:53:01 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?

Many ancient cultures have a Flood account. I do not believe the account is allegorical. I don't see the language as being figurative but historical narrative.

Henry and John Morris, Johnathan Wells, Ian Taylor, Ken Ham, among others, are proponents of a young earth argument for the Flood. There is merit in it. It is definitely going against the standard paradigm of billions of years that is ingrained in the minds of specialized scientists and feed to the masses through secular educational systems throughout the world for over a century now in some cases and aspects. Since the focus has been on Darwinian evolution and Big Bang origins it hasn't been give much thought by mainstream science and the idea is squashed because of the supernatural characteristics to it.

Peter
bulproof
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10/31/2016 4:07:19 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 1:53:01 AM, PGA wrote:
Many ancient cultures have a Flood account.
Now list the cultures that have a few people and all the earths animals on a little boat and we'll know how many are discussing the same myth.
dee-em
Posts: 6,481
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10/31/2016 6:36:36 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 1:53:01 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?

Many ancient cultures have a Flood account. I do not believe the account is allegorical. I don't see the language as being figurative but historical narrative.

Then this thread is not for you. I wanted a discussion based on reality.

Henry and John Morris, Johnathan Wells, Ian Taylor, Ken Ham, among others, are proponents of a young earth argument for the Flood. There is merit in it. It is definitely going against the standard paradigm of billions of years that is ingrained in the minds of specialized scientists and feed to the masses through secular educational systems throughout the world for over a century now in some cases and aspects. Since the focus has been on Darwinian evolution and Big Bang origins it hasn't been give much thought by mainstream science and the idea is squashed because of the supernatural characteristics to it.

Yep. Science remains unconcerned and uninterested in religious fantasies.
2for1
Posts: 82
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10/31/2016 6:39:08 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 6:36:36 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/31/2016 1:53:01 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?

Many ancient cultures have a Flood account. I do not believe the account is allegorical. I don't see the language as being figurative but historical narrative.

Then this thread is not for you. I wanted a discussion based on reality.

Henry and John Morris, Johnathan Wells, Ian Taylor, Ken Ham, among others, are proponents of a young earth argument for the Flood. There is merit in it. It is definitely going against the standard paradigm of billions of years that is ingrained in the minds of specialized scientists and feed to the masses through secular educational systems throughout the world for over a century now in some cases and aspects. Since the focus has been on Darwinian evolution and Big Bang origins it hasn't been give much thought by mainstream science and the idea is squashed because of the supernatural characteristics to it.

Yep. Science remains unconcerned and uninterested in religious fantasies. : :

Most scientists try their best to subvert the Law of God like all religious men do.
PGA
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10/31/2016 6:41:08 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 6:36:36 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/31/2016 1:53:01 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?

Many ancient cultures have a Flood account. I do not believe the account is allegorical. I don't see the language as being figurative but historical narrative.

Then this thread is not for you. I wanted a discussion based on reality.

Henry and John Morris, Johnathan Wells, Ian Taylor, Ken Ham, among others, are proponents of a young earth argument for the Flood. There is merit in it. It is definitely going against the standard paradigm of billions of years that is ingrained in the minds of specialized scientists and feed to the masses through secular educational systems throughout the world for over a century now in some cases and aspects. Since the focus has been on Darwinian evolution and Big Bang origins it hasn't been give much thought by mainstream science and the idea is squashed because of the supernatural characteristics to it.

Yep. Science remains unconcerned and uninterested in religious fantasies.

Oh, your god, Science, is unconcerned and uninterested!

Peter
2for1
Posts: 82
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10/31/2016 6:45:52 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 6:41:08 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:36:36 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/31/2016 1:53:01 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?

Many ancient cultures have a Flood account. I do not believe the account is allegorical. I don't see the language as being figurative but historical narrative.

Then this thread is not for you. I wanted a discussion based on reality.

Henry and John Morris, Johnathan Wells, Ian Taylor, Ken Ham, among others, are proponents of a young earth argument for the Flood. There is merit in it. It is definitely going against the standard paradigm of billions of years that is ingrained in the minds of specialized scientists and feed to the masses through secular educational systems throughout the world for over a century now in some cases and aspects. Since the focus has been on Darwinian evolution and Big Bang origins it hasn't been give much thought by mainstream science and the idea is squashed because of the supernatural characteristics to it.

Yep. Science remains unconcerned and uninterested in religious fantasies.

Oh, your god, Science, is unconcerned and uninterested!

Peter : :

Those of you who don't believe in the flood will never understand how God split up his people into the gentiles and the Israelite's who kept their native tongue.
PGA
Posts: 4,050
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10/31/2016 6:46:59 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 6:45:52 AM, 2for1 wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:41:08 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:36:36 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/31/2016 1:53:01 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?

Many ancient cultures have a Flood account. I do not believe the account is allegorical. I don't see the language as being figurative but historical narrative.

Then this thread is not for you. I wanted a discussion based on reality.

Henry and John Morris, Johnathan Wells, Ian Taylor, Ken Ham, among others, are proponents of a young earth argument for the Flood. There is merit in it. It is definitely going against the standard paradigm of billions of years that is ingrained in the minds of specialized scientists and feed to the masses through secular educational systems throughout the world for over a century now in some cases and aspects. Since the focus has been on Darwinian evolution and Big Bang origins it hasn't been give much thought by mainstream science and the idea is squashed because of the supernatural characteristics to it.

Yep. Science remains unconcerned and uninterested in religious fantasies.

Oh, your god, Science, is unconcerned and uninterested!

Peter : :

Those of you who don't believe in the flood will never understand how God split up his people into the gentiles and the Israelite's who kept their native tongue.

Fly away, Bog. You are beyond reasoning with.

Peter
dee-em
Posts: 6,481
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10/31/2016 6:48:11 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 6:41:08 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:36:36 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/31/2016 1:53:01 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?

Many ancient cultures have a Flood account. I do not believe the account is allegorical. I don't see the language as being figurative but historical narrative.

Then this thread is not for you. I wanted a discussion based on reality.

Henry and John Morris, Johnathan Wells, Ian Taylor, Ken Ham, among others, are proponents of a young earth argument for the Flood. There is merit in it. It is definitely going against the standard paradigm of billions of years that is ingrained in the minds of specialized scientists and feed to the masses through secular educational systems throughout the world for over a century now in some cases and aspects. Since the focus has been on Darwinian evolution and Big Bang origins it hasn't been give much thought by mainstream science and the idea is squashed because of the supernatural characteristics to it.

Yep. Science remains unconcerned and uninterested in religious fantasies.

Oh, your god, Science, is unconcerned and uninterested!

When you start calling science a god, then you acknowledge your total lack of credibility. Don't try and drag us down to your level with your absurd beliefs. We have standards.
2for1
Posts: 82
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10/31/2016 6:48:46 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 6:46:59 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:45:52 AM, 2for1 wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:41:08 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:36:36 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/31/2016 1:53:01 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?

Many ancient cultures have a Flood account. I do not believe the account is allegorical. I don't see the language as being figurative but historical narrative.

Then this thread is not for you. I wanted a discussion based on reality.

Henry and John Morris, Johnathan Wells, Ian Taylor, Ken Ham, among others, are proponents of a young earth argument for the Flood. There is merit in it. It is definitely going against the standard paradigm of billions of years that is ingrained in the minds of specialized scientists and feed to the masses through secular educational systems throughout the world for over a century now in some cases and aspects. Since the focus has been on Darwinian evolution and Big Bang origins it hasn't been give much thought by mainstream science and the idea is squashed because of the supernatural characteristics to it.

Yep. Science remains unconcerned and uninterested in religious fantasies.

Oh, your god, Science, is unconcerned and uninterested!

Peter : :

Those of you who don't believe in the flood will never understand how God split up his people into the gentiles and the Israelite's who kept their native tongue.

Fly away, Bog. You are beyond reasoning with.

Peter : :

It's impossible to reason with the Truth, Peter. That's why you hate the Truth so much.
PGA
Posts: 4,050
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10/31/2016 6:55:34 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 6:48:11 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:41:08 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:36:36 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/31/2016 1:53:01 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?

Many ancient cultures have a Flood account. I do not believe the account is allegorical. I don't see the language as being figurative but historical narrative.

Then this thread is not for you. I wanted a discussion based on reality.

Henry and John Morris, Johnathan Wells, Ian Taylor, Ken Ham, among others, are proponents of a young earth argument for the Flood. There is merit in it. It is definitely going against the standard paradigm of billions of years that is ingrained in the minds of specialized scientists and feed to the masses through secular educational systems throughout the world for over a century now in some cases and aspects. Since the focus has been on Darwinian evolution and Big Bang origins it hasn't been give much thought by mainstream science and the idea is squashed because of the supernatural characteristics to it.

Yep. Science remains unconcerned and uninterested in religious fantasies.

Oh, your god, Science, is unconcerned and uninterested!

When you start calling science a god, then you acknowledge your total lack of credibility. Don't try and drag us down to your level with your absurd beliefs. We have standards.

There is a vast difference between Science and Scientism. You believe that latter. What you do is elevate science to the place of a god. It is your pat answer to a number of issues.

Peter
2for1
Posts: 82
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10/31/2016 7:08:10 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 6:55:34 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:48:11 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:41:08 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:36:36 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/31/2016 1:53:01 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?

Many ancient cultures have a Flood account. I do not believe the account is allegorical. I don't see the language as being figurative but historical narrative.

Then this thread is not for you. I wanted a discussion based on reality.

Henry and John Morris, Johnathan Wells, Ian Taylor, Ken Ham, among others, are proponents of a young earth argument for the Flood. There is merit in it. It is definitely going against the standard paradigm of billions of years that is ingrained in the minds of specialized scientists and feed to the masses through secular educational systems throughout the world for over a century now in some cases and aspects. Since the focus has been on Darwinian evolution and Big Bang origins it hasn't been give much thought by mainstream science and the idea is squashed because of the supernatural characteristics to it.

Yep. Science remains unconcerned and uninterested in religious fantasies.

Oh, your god, Science, is unconcerned and uninterested!

When you start calling science a god, then you acknowledge your total lack of credibility. Don't try and drag us down to your level with your absurd beliefs. We have standards.

There is a vast difference between Science and Scientism. You believe that latter. What you do is elevate science to the place of a god. It is your pat answer to a number of issues.

Peter : :

2 Peter 3
3 First of all you must understand this, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own passions 4 and saying, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things have continued as they were from the beginning of creation." 5 They deliberately ignore this fact, that by the word of God heavens existed long ago, and an earth formed out of water and by means of water, 6 through which the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. 7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist have been stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

8 But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you,[a] not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.

Preterists hate these kinds of scriptures because it takes their lies away.

Matthew 24
14: And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come.

Isaiah 24
18: He who flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and he who climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.
19: The earth is utterly broken, the earth is rent asunder, the earth is violently shaken.
20: The earth staggers like a drunken man, it sways like a hut; its transgression lies heavy upon it, and it falls, and will not rise again.

Ezekiel 38
19: For in my jealousy and in my blazing wrath I declare, On that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
20: the fish of the sea, and the birds of the air, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep on the ground, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall quake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the cliffs shall fall, and every wall shall tumble to the ground.

2 Peter 3
10: But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.
11: Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,
12: waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire!
13: But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Isaiah 66
15: "For behold, the LORD will come in fire, and his chariots like the stormwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16: For by fire will the LORD execute judgment, and by his sword, upon all flesh; and those slain by the LORD shall be many.

Matthew 5
18: For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

Revelation 21
1: Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
8: But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death."

Zephaniah 1
18: Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the LORD. In the fire of his jealous wrath, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full, yea, sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.

ALL INHABITANTS on earth will perish including ALL CHRISTIANS and PRETERISTS.
dee-em
Posts: 6,481
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10/31/2016 7:14:58 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 6:55:34 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:48:11 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:41:08 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:36:36 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/31/2016 1:53:01 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?

Many ancient cultures have a Flood account. I do not believe the account is allegorical. I don't see the language as being figurative but historical narrative.

Then this thread is not for you. I wanted a discussion based on reality.

Henry and John Morris, Johnathan Wells, Ian Taylor, Ken Ham, among others, are proponents of a young earth argument for the Flood. There is merit in it. It is definitely going against the standard paradigm of billions of years that is ingrained in the minds of specialized scientists and feed to the masses through secular educational systems throughout the world for over a century now in some cases and aspects. Since the focus has been on Darwinian evolution and Big Bang origins it hasn't been give much thought by mainstream science and the idea is squashed because of the supernatural characteristics to it.

Yep. Science remains unconcerned and uninterested in religious fantasies.

Oh, your god, Science, is unconcerned and uninterested!

When you start calling science a god, then you acknowledge your total lack of credibility. Don't try and drag us down to your level with your absurd beliefs. We have standards.

There is a vast difference between Science and Scientism. You believe that latter. What you do is elevate science to the place of a god. It is your pat answer to a number of issues.

Here is the resort to lying again. It didn't take long. You have no idea what I believe. I would never lower my acceptance of the benefits of a scientific approach to the attainment of knowledge, the fruits of which you enjoy daily, to the place of a god. That would require only blind faith, the very opposite of empiricism. Any fool can hold nonsensical beliefs based on faith alone and many do.
Looncall
Posts: 460
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10/31/2016 7:25:35 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 1:53:01 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?

Many ancient cultures have a Flood account. I do not believe the account is allegorical. I don't see the language as being figurative but historical narrative.

Henry and John Morris, Johnathan Wells, Ian Taylor, Ken Ham, among others, are proponents of a young earth argument for the Flood. There is merit in it. It is definitely going against the standard paradigm of billions of years that is ingrained in the minds of specialized scientists and feed to the masses through secular educational systems throughout the world for over a century now in some cases and aspects. Since the focus has been on Darwinian evolution and Big Bang origins it hasn't been give much thought by mainstream science and the idea is squashed because of the supernatural characteristics to it.

Peter

I think you have quite a nerve to cite a bunch of crackpots and con men here. Notorious liars all. Have you no shame?
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
2for1
Posts: 82
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10/31/2016 7:47:41 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 7:25:35 AM, Looncall wrote:
At 10/31/2016 1:53:01 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?

Many ancient cultures have a Flood account. I do not believe the account is allegorical. I don't see the language as being figurative but historical narrative.

Henry and John Morris, Johnathan Wells, Ian Taylor, Ken Ham, among others, are proponents of a young earth argument for the Flood. There is merit in it. It is definitely going against the standard paradigm of billions of years that is ingrained in the minds of specialized scientists and feed to the masses through secular educational systems throughout the world for over a century now in some cases and aspects. Since the focus has been on Darwinian evolution and Big Bang origins it hasn't been give much thought by mainstream science and the idea is squashed because of the supernatural characteristics to it.

Peter

I think you have quite a nerve to cite a bunch of crackpots and con men here. Notorious liars all. Have you no shame? : :

All the inhabitants who think they're living on a real planet are liars. They will perish without ever living again. Only the living will remain after the inhabitants die off and burn up on the day of the Lord.
PGA
Posts: 4,050
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10/31/2016 7:50:45 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 7:14:58 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:55:34 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:48:11 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:41:08 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:36:36 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/31/2016 1:53:01 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?

Many ancient cultures have a Flood account. I do not believe the account is allegorical. I don't see the language as being figurative but historical narrative.

Then this thread is not for you. I wanted a discussion based on reality.

Henry and John Morris, Johnathan Wells, Ian Taylor, Ken Ham, among others, are proponents of a young earth argument for the Flood. There is merit in it. It is definitely going against the standard paradigm of billions of years that is ingrained in the minds of specialized scientists and feed to the masses through secular educational systems throughout the world for over a century now in some cases and aspects. Since the focus has been on Darwinian evolution and Big Bang origins it hasn't been give much thought by mainstream science and the idea is squashed because of the supernatural characteristics to it.

Yep. Science remains unconcerned and uninterested in religious fantasies.

Oh, your god, Science, is unconcerned and uninterested!

When you start calling science a god, then you acknowledge your total lack of credibility. Don't try and drag us down to your level with your absurd beliefs. We have standards.

There is a vast difference between Science and Scientism. You believe that latter. What you do is elevate science to the place of a god. It is your pat answer to a number of issues.

Here is the resort to lying again. It didn't take long. You have no idea what I believe.

I don't have to know everything you believe. I'm not omniscient. All I need to know is what your worldview is grounded on. The patterns of belief that you hold has commonality with others who hold similar beliefs. You feed of the same things they do.

I would never lower my acceptance of the benefits of a scientific approach to the attainment of knowledge, the fruits of which you enjoy daily, to the place of a god. That would require only blind faith, the very opposite of empiricism. Any fool can hold nonsensical beliefs based on faith alone and many do.

How do you get science from your starting point? Peel back your worldview to its beginnings. If there is not a personal Being behind your starting point you originated by chance happenstance. You can't have it both ways. Either there is a conscious personal Being with intentional or you are the result of blind, indifferent chance.

Which is it?

There is no reason why something that has no guidance or purpose can cause uniformity and sustainability. Demonstrate that there is. Without uniformity and sustainability science is not possible.

Peter
2for1
Posts: 82
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10/31/2016 7:55:00 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 7:50:45 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/31/2016 7:14:58 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:55:34 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:48:11 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:41:08 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:36:36 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/31/2016 1:53:01 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?

Many ancient cultures have a Flood account. I do not believe the account is allegorical. I don't see the language as being figurative but historical narrative.

Then this thread is not for you. I wanted a discussion based on reality.

Henry and John Morris, Johnathan Wells, Ian Taylor, Ken Ham, among others, are proponents of a young earth argument for the Flood. There is merit in it. It is definitely going against the standard paradigm of billions of years that is ingrained in the minds of specialized scientists and feed to the masses through secular educational systems throughout the world for over a century now in some cases and aspects. Since the focus has been on Darwinian evolution and Big Bang origins it hasn't been give much thought by mainstream science and the idea is squashed because of the supernatural characteristics to it.

Yep. Science remains unconcerned and uninterested in religious fantasies.

Oh, your god, Science, is unconcerned and uninterested!

When you start calling science a god, then you acknowledge your total lack of credibility. Don't try and drag us down to your level with your absurd beliefs. We have standards.

There is a vast difference between Science and Scientism. You believe that latter. What you do is elevate science to the place of a god. It is your pat answer to a number of issues.

Here is the resort to lying again. It didn't take long. You have no idea what I believe.

I don't have to know everything you believe. I'm not omniscient. All I need to know is what your worldview is grounded on. The patterns of belief that you hold has commonality with others who hold similar beliefs. You feed of the same things they do.

I would never lower my acceptance of the benefits of a scientific approach to the attainment of knowledge, the fruits of which you enjoy daily, to the place of a god. That would require only blind faith, the very opposite of empiricism. Any fool can hold nonsensical beliefs based on faith alone and many do.

How do you get science from your starting point? Peel back your worldview to its beginnings. If there is not a personal Being behind your starting point you originated by chance happenstance. You can't have it both ways. Either there is a conscious personal Being with intentional or you are the result of blind, indifferent chance.

Which is it?

There is no reason why something that has no guidance or purpose can cause uniformity and sustainability. Demonstrate that there is. Without uniformity and sustainability science is not possible.

Peter : :

There are three different kinds of thoughts from the Lord. One is called Satan. One is called the Beast and the pure thoughts of the Lord are called Christ.

All the inhabitants who believe they are real people living on a real planet are getting thoughts called Satan. All those inhabitants who get thoughts to build false gods with their human hands and worship those false gods are being influenced by thoughts called the Beast.

Only Christ thoughts can teach a created man ( spiritual man ) what the Tree of Life is and how it was used to convert our Creator's thoughts into make-believe worlds that Satan and the Beast make man believe they're real.
PGA
Posts: 4,050
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10/31/2016 8:04:34 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 7:25:35 AM, Looncall wrote:
At 10/31/2016 1:53:01 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?

Many ancient cultures have a Flood account. I do not believe the account is allegorical. I don't see the language as being figurative but historical narrative.

Henry and John Morris, Johnathan Wells, Ian Taylor, Ken Ham, among others, are proponents of a young earth argument for the Flood. There is merit in it. It is definitely going against the standard paradigm of billions of years that is ingrained in the minds of specialized scientists and feed to the masses through secular educational systems throughout the world for over a century now in some cases and aspects. Since the focus has been on Darwinian evolution and Big Bang origins it hasn't been give much thought by mainstream science and the idea is squashed because of the supernatural characteristics to it.

Peter

I think you have quite a nerve to cite a bunch of crackpots and con men here. Notorious liars all. Have you no shame?

They do not fit the paradigm that you have been indoctrinated into, that is for sure.

Were you there to witness origins or the Flood? If not you have to rely on interpreting the data/evidence available long after the event. It does not come pre-interpreted as to what happened. It is generated by the worldview you start with. You start with one that does not accept the supernatural agency of God. Therefore it requires a completely natural explanation. So you work within that parameter and paradigm. That is the way you view life. You are not open to any other interpretation. It has to conform to the "acceptable scientific view." These views chance as new evidence is brought to light. The focus has been on a particular way of thinking and looking at life since the Age of Reason. Man has become the measure of all things. The question is which man?

Peter
Looncall
Posts: 460
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10/31/2016 8:23:46 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 8:04:34 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/31/2016 7:25:35 AM, Looncall wrote:
At 10/31/2016 1:53:01 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?

Many ancient cultures have a Flood account. I do not believe the account is allegorical. I don't see the language as being figurative but historical narrative.

Henry and John Morris, Johnathan Wells, Ian Taylor, Ken Ham, among others, are proponents of a young earth argument for the Flood. There is merit in it. It is definitely going against the standard paradigm of billions of years that is ingrained in the minds of specialized scientists and feed to the masses through secular educational systems throughout the world for over a century now in some cases and aspects. Since the focus has been on Darwinian evolution and Big Bang origins it hasn't been give much thought by mainstream science and the idea is squashed because of the supernatural characteristics to it.

Peter

I think you have quite a nerve to cite a bunch of crackpots and con men here. Notorious liars all. Have you no shame?

They do not fit the paradigm that you have been indoctrinated into, that is for sure.

Were you there to witness origins or the Flood? If not you have to rely on interpreting the data/evidence available long after the event. It does not come pre-interpreted as to what happened. It is generated by the worldview you start with. You start with one that does not accept the supernatural agency of God. Therefore it requires a completely natural explanation. So you work within that parameter and paradigm. That is the way you view life. You are not open to any other interpretation. It has to conform to the "acceptable scientific view." These views chance as new evidence is brought to light. The focus has been on a particular way of thinking and looking at life since the Age of Reason. Man has become the measure of all things. The question is which man?

Peter

Is it to laugh! The organization of the people you cite has a "statement of faith" that obliges them to follow supernatural explanations rather than natural ones.

Science does not use supernatural explanations because they are unnecessary. When some puzzle has been solved, it has always been the scientific approach that worked, not some appeal to superstition.
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
PGA
Posts: 4,050
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10/31/2016 8:35:58 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 8:23:46 AM, Looncall wrote:
At 10/31/2016 8:04:34 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/31/2016 7:25:35 AM, Looncall wrote:
At 10/31/2016 1:53:01 AM, PGA wrote:
At 10/28/2016 10:06:23 PM, dee-em wrote:
There are many Christians who accept, or have been forced to accept, that the story of the Great (Global) Flood cannot be literal. For those Christians (and perhaps Muslims too) I submit this passage from Genesis 9 for their consideration:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you -- the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you -- every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

Even if the story of Noah and the Ark is allegorical, the above is a direct quotation from God. How do non-Floodist Christians reconcile this passage with the truth of the Bible? There are only two possibilities. The author is either lying by attributing words to God which God did not utter or God himself is lying about having inflicted a Great Flood on humanity and promising never to do it again. Which is it?

If it's the former, how can anything in the Bible be trusted (since here we have clear evidence that the Bible authors just made stuff up and attributed it to God)?

Many ancient cultures have a Flood account. I do not believe the account is allegorical. I don't see the language as being figurative but historical narrative.

Henry and John Morris, Johnathan Wells, Ian Taylor, Ken Ham, among others, are proponents of a young earth argument for the Flood. There is merit in it. It is definitely going against the standard paradigm of billions of years that is ingrained in the minds of specialized scientists and feed to the masses through secular educational systems throughout the world for over a century now in some cases and aspects. Since the focus has been on Darwinian evolution and Big Bang origins it hasn't been give much thought by mainstream science and the idea is squashed because of the supernatural characteristics to it.

Peter

I think you have quite a nerve to cite a bunch of crackpots and con men here. Notorious liars all. Have you no shame?

They do not fit the paradigm that you have been indoctrinated into, that is for sure.

Were you there to witness origins or the Flood? If not you have to rely on interpreting the data/evidence available long after the event. It does not come pre-interpreted as to what happened. It is generated by the worldview you start with. You start with one that does not accept the supernatural agency of God. Therefore it requires a completely natural explanation. So you work within that parameter and paradigm. That is the way you view life. You are not open to any other interpretation. It has to conform to the "acceptable scientific view." These views chance as new evidence is brought to light. The focus has been on a particular way of thinking and looking at life since the Age of Reason. Man has become the measure of all things. The question is which man?

Peter

Is it to laugh! The organization of the people you cite has a "statement of faith" that obliges them to follow supernatural explanations rather than natural ones.

And the philosophy you follow have a mandate to follow strictly natural explanations.

Science does not use supernatural explanations because they are unnecessary. When some puzzle has been solved, it has always been the scientific approach that worked, not some appeal to superstition.

Science cannot explain why the uniformity of nature is possible from a strictly natural standpoint. They can't make sense of it starting from such a position. That means that the very thing science relies on in order to operate, repeatability, they have no sensible explanation for.

Many of the founders of the different branches of science were Christians, including Sir Francis Bacon, the founder of the scientific method. He believed he could predict things because God made them and hence, they were repeatable. He was just another Christian trying to thing God's thoughts after Him and discover the beauties of the universe that God had made.

Peter
tarantula
Posts: 863
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10/31/2016 8:43:31 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
As there is no evidence to support the idea of a worldwide flood and Noah's Ark, it has to be treated with great scepticism. Fortunately not all Christians are Biblical literalists.
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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10/31/2016 8:45:43 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 6:55:34 AM, PGA wrote:
What you do is elevate science to the place of a god
You are told over and over and over and over again that gods don't exist and then claim that we elevate science to the place of non existence, does the saw dust still leak from your ears?
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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10/31/2016 8:46:44 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 1:53:01 AM, PGA wrote:
Many ancient cultures have a Flood account.

Now list the cultures that have a few people and all the earths animals on a little boat and we'll know how many are discussing the same myth.