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DA moment you realized GOD DOES EXIST

POPOO5560
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10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?
Never fart near dog
Graincruncher
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10/30/2016 11:02:41 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?

The examples you give are all of people coming to understand less, not more. This should tell you something significant.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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10/30/2016 11:05:18 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 11:02:41 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?

The examples you give are all of people coming to understand less, not more. This should tell you something significant.

exactly my son... can u answer them.. teach me a lesson in life.
Never fart near dog
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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10/30/2016 11:10:21 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 11:05:18 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:02:41 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?

The examples you give are all of people coming to understand less, not more. This should tell you something significant.

exactly my son... can u answer them.. teach me a lesson in life.

Sure thing!

1) When talking about the origin of universe as a whole and the rules that govern it, we don't know what's possible or not. Maybe something can come from nothing. Maybe there's a something else from which it came. We don't know.

2) Nobody is claiming our universe or anything in it is infinitely old.

3) See #1

Hope that helps.
Liveone
Posts: 64
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10/30/2016 11:22:44 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 11:10:21 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:05:18 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:02:41 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?

The examples you give are all of people coming to understand less, not more. This should tell you something significant.

exactly my son... can u answer them.. teach me a lesson in life.

Sure thing!

1) When talking about the origin of universe as a whole and the rules that govern it, we don't know what's possible or not. Maybe something can come from nothing. Maybe there's a something else from which it came. We don't know.

2) Nobody is claiming our universe or anything in it is infinitely old.

3) See #1

Hope that helps. : :

Only the Creator of our life experiences can teach us how He converted His thoughts into make-believe worlds for us characters to explore but it's necessary to listen to His voice and obey His commandments in order to get in on this knowledge.
rnjs
Posts: 381
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10/30/2016 3:33:36 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?

Actually all would have been unbelievers at one time since you cannot be born a Christian, it is an individual choice one has to make after they reach the age of understanding (which varies from individual to individual) which is why it is called being "born again".
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,373
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10/30/2016 4:11:35 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 11:10:21 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:05:18 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:02:41 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?

The examples you give are all of people coming to understand less, not more. This should tell you something significant.

exactly my son... can u answer them.. teach me a lesson in life.

Sure thing!

1) When talking about the origin of universe as a whole and the rules that govern it, we don't know what's possible or not. Maybe something can come from nothing. Maybe there's a something else from which it came. We don't know.

2) Nobody is claiming our universe or anything in it is infinitely old.

3) See #1

Hope that helps.

That helps me understand that you cannot understand the elegance of the universe that was always meant to be, what it has become. The first rule in chaos theory is there is no chaos. The first rule of the law of energy conservation says all energy cannot be created or destroyed, but transferred only. This suggest the cause for the universe came from outside the universe, as everything inside the universe is a transfer of prior energetic ownership. But you can't believe this relationship of cause and effect is affecting anything apart from itself. So you must now believe the universe has always existed. You now believe the universe is infinite. Yet the universe had a beginning, thus it has an end., therin becomes the universe finite. The Planck line becomes the finite proof. But wait. You're an atheist. You can't be wrong. Right?
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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10/30/2016 6:11:26 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 4:11:35 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:10:21 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:05:18 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:02:41 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?

The examples you give are all of people coming to understand less, not more. This should tell you something significant.

exactly my son... can u answer them.. teach me a lesson in life.

Sure thing!

1) When talking about the origin of universe as a whole and the rules that govern it, we don't know what's possible or not. Maybe something can come from nothing. Maybe there's a something else from which it came. We don't know.

2) Nobody is claiming our universe or anything in it is infinitely old.

3) See #1

Hope that helps.

That helps me understand that you cannot understand the elegance of the universe that was always meant to be, what it has become. The first rule in chaos theory is there is no chaos. The first rule of the law of energy conservation says all energy cannot be created or destroyed, but transferred only. This suggest the cause for the universe came from outside the universe, as everything inside the universe is a transfer of prior energetic ownership. But you can't believe this relationship of cause and effect is affecting anything apart from itself. So you must now believe the universe has always existed. You now believe the universe is infinite. Yet the universe had a beginning, thus it has an end., therin becomes the universe finite. The Planck line becomes the finite proof. But wait. You're an atheist. You can't be wrong. Right?

No, I'm saying that if we don't know what the rules were then we can't say what could or couldn't have happened. Let alone what actually did or didn't. We don't know and maybe we'll never know.

I can only assume that you either agree with me on this or have evidence to the contrary.
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,373
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10/30/2016 6:49:41 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 6:11:26 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 4:11:35 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:10:21 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:05:18 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:02:41 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?

The examples you give are all of people coming to understand less, not more. This should tell you something significant.

exactly my son... can u answer them.. teach me a lesson in life.

Sure thing!

1) When talking about the origin of universe as a whole and the rules that govern it, we don't know what's possible or not. Maybe something can come from nothing. Maybe there's a something else from which it came. We don't know.

2) Nobody is claiming our universe or anything in it is infinitely old.

3) See #1

Hope that helps.

That helps me understand that you cannot understand the elegance of the universe that was always meant to be, what it has become. The first rule in chaos theory is there is no chaos. The first rule of the law of energy conservation says all energy cannot be created or destroyed, but transferred only. This suggest the cause for the universe came from outside the universe, as everything inside the universe is a transfer of prior energetic ownership. But you can't believe this relationship of cause and effect is affecting anything apart from itself. So you must now believe the universe has always existed. You now believe the universe is infinite. Yet the universe had a beginning, thus it has an end., therin becomes the universe finite. The Planck line becomes the finite proof. But wait. You're an atheist. You can't be wrong. Right?

No, I'm saying that if we don't know what the rules were then we can't say what could or couldn't have happened. Let alone what actually did or didn't. We don't know and maybe we'll never know.

I can only assume that you either agree with me on this or have evidence to the contrary.

I can agree to that. The question looms, can you agree to disagree that what I've said speaks unwell of you, because that's something we'd both find agreeable. Let's get four rules straight before going backwards. The governance of the universe lives by small nuclear, large nuclear, electromagnetic, and gravity. These are the four forces that dictate all our actions. For each formula we have a mathematical equation.
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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10/30/2016 7:06:19 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 6:49:41 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/30/2016 6:11:26 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 4:11:35 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:10:21 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:05:18 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:02:41 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?

The examples you give are all of people coming to understand less, not more. This should tell you something significant.

exactly my son... can u answer them.. teach me a lesson in life.

Sure thing!

1) When talking about the origin of universe as a whole and the rules that govern it, we don't know what's possible or not. Maybe something can come from nothing. Maybe there's a something else from which it came. We don't know.

2) Nobody is claiming our universe or anything in it is infinitely old.

3) See #1

Hope that helps.

That helps me understand that you cannot understand the elegance of the universe that was always meant to be, what it has become. The first rule in chaos theory is there is no chaos. The first rule of the law of energy conservation says all energy cannot be created or destroyed, but transferred only. This suggest the cause for the universe came from outside the universe, as everything inside the universe is a transfer of prior energetic ownership. But you can't believe this relationship of cause and effect is affecting anything apart from itself. So you must now believe the universe has always existed. You now believe the universe is infinite. Yet the universe had a beginning, thus it has an end., therin becomes the universe finite. The Planck line becomes the finite proof. But wait. You're an atheist. You can't be wrong. Right?

No, I'm saying that if we don't know what the rules were then we can't say what could or couldn't have happened. Let alone what actually did or didn't. We don't know and maybe we'll never know.

I can only assume that you either agree with me on this or have evidence to the contrary.

I can agree to that. The question looms, can you agree to disagree that what I've said speaks unwell of you, because that's something we'd both find agreeable.

Do I disagree what you've said makes me look bad? Of course I do. Mostly because it was you strawmanning like crazy, without reference to what I said or think.

Let's get four rules straight before going backwards. The governance of the universe lives by small nuclear, large nuclear, electromagnetic, and gravity. These are the four forces that dictate all our actions. For each formula we have a mathematical equation.

We can speak only of within the confines of our universe. Using the language we have developed to describe it, in accordance with the senses through which we perceive it. Beyond that, we cannot say anything at all, as it transcends our linguistic capabilities and the foundations upon which they are built.
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,373
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10/30/2016 7:20:48 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 7:06:19 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 6:49:41 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/30/2016 6:11:26 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 4:11:35 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:10:21 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:05:18 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:02:41 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?

The examples you give are all of people coming to understand less, not more. This should tell you something significant.

exactly my son... can u answer them.. teach me a lesson in life.

Sure thing!

1) When talking about the origin of universe as a whole and the rules that govern it, we don't know what's possible or not. Maybe something can come from nothing. Maybe there's a something else from which it came. We don't know.

2) Nobody is claiming our universe or anything in it is infinitely old.

3) See #1

Hope that helps.

That helps me understand that you cannot understand the elegance of the universe that was always meant to be, what it has become. The first rule in chaos theory is there is no chaos. The first rule of the law of energy conservation says all energy cannot be created or destroyed, but transferred only. This suggest the cause for the universe came from outside the universe, as everything inside the universe is a transfer of prior energetic ownership. But you can't believe this relationship of cause and effect is affecting anything apart from itself. So you must now believe the universe has always existed. You now believe the universe is infinite. Yet the universe had a beginning, thus it has an end., therin becomes the universe finite. The Planck line becomes the finite proof. But wait. You're an atheist. You can't be wrong. Right?

No, I'm saying that if we don't know what the rules were then we can't say what could or couldn't have happened. Let alone what actually did or didn't. We don't know and maybe we'll never know.

I can only assume that you either agree with me on this or have evidence to the contrary.

I can agree to that. The question looms, can you agree to disagree that what I've said speaks unwell of you, because that's something we'd both find agreeable.

Do I disagree what you've said makes me look bad? Of course I do. Mostly because it was you strawmanning like crazy, without reference to what I said or think.

I'm not talking about what you said. I'm talking about what you should have said, which I said for you. Stop confusing the issue.

Let's get four rules straight before going backwards. The governance of the universe lives by small nuclear, large nuclear, electromagnetic, and gravity. These are the four forces that dictate all our actions. For each formula we have a mathematical equation.

We can speak only of within the confines of our universe. Using the language we have developed to describe it, in accordance with the senses through which we perceive it. Beyond that, we cannot say anything at all, as it transcends our linguistic capabilities and the foundations upon which they are built.

I can speak from both sides of the universe, and a few of the realms stuck between. You see, I can see myself on the one side that is not the far side, and it's this side to which I'm harnessed to a machine. I can't actually see myself, but I can see twelve monkeys trying to play this out, only using some cooler gadget. Time still exists there, but where is beyond me because nobody will answer my questions. Instead they send me back here. Crazy right? Not as crazy as taking it up a notch, because there are games inside games, and gaming one better is me on top of time, with no time to breath because...who needs it? You do. I don't. I don't need anything because I already know everything. I just can't remember what that was. I don't sound so crazy now, do I?
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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10/30/2016 7:26:46 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 7:20:48 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/30/2016 7:06:19 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 6:49:41 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/30/2016 6:11:26 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 4:11:35 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:10:21 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:05:18 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:02:41 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?

The examples you give are all of people coming to understand less, not more. This should tell you something significant.

exactly my son... can u answer them.. teach me a lesson in life.

Sure thing!

1) When talking about the origin of universe as a whole and the rules that govern it, we don't know what's possible or not. Maybe something can come from nothing. Maybe there's a something else from which it came. We don't know.

2) Nobody is claiming our universe or anything in it is infinitely old.

3) See #1

Hope that helps.

That helps me understand that you cannot understand the elegance of the universe that was always meant to be, what it has become. The first rule in chaos theory is there is no chaos. The first rule of the law of energy conservation says all energy cannot be created or destroyed, but transferred only. This suggest the cause for the universe came from outside the universe, as everything inside the universe is a transfer of prior energetic ownership. But you can't believe this relationship of cause and effect is affecting anything apart from itself. So you must now believe the universe has always existed. You now believe the universe is infinite. Yet the universe had a beginning, thus it has an end., therin becomes the universe finite. The Planck line becomes the finite proof. But wait. You're an atheist. You can't be wrong. Right?

No, I'm saying that if we don't know what the rules were then we can't say what could or couldn't have happened. Let alone what actually did or didn't. We don't know and maybe we'll never know.

I can only assume that you either agree with me on this or have evidence to the contrary.

I can agree to that. The question looms, can you agree to disagree that what I've said speaks unwell of you, because that's something we'd both find agreeable.

Do I disagree what you've said makes me look bad? Of course I do. Mostly because it was you strawmanning like crazy, without reference to what I said or think.

I'm not talking about what you said. I'm talking about what you should have said, which I said for you. Stop confusing the issue.

You said nothing for me. You said something for you. With which I disagreed. That's how this whole thing works.


Let's get four rules straight before going backwards. The governance of the universe lives by small nuclear, large nuclear, electromagnetic, and gravity. These are the four forces that dictate all our actions. For each formula we have a mathematical equation.

We can speak only of within the confines of our universe. Using the language we have developed to describe it, in accordance with the senses through which we perceive it. Beyond that, we cannot say anything at all, as it transcends our linguistic capabilities and the foundations upon which they are built.

I can speak from both sides of the universe, and a few of the realms stuck between. You see, I can see myself on the one side that is not the far side, and it's this side to which I'm harnessed to a machine. I can't actually see myself, but I can see twelve monkeys trying to play this out, only using some cooler gadget. Time still exists there, but where is beyond me because nobody will answer my questions. Instead they send me back here. Crazy right? Not as crazy as taking it up a notch, because there are games inside games, and gaming one better is me on top of time, with no time to breath because...who needs it? You do. I don't. I don't need anything because I already know everything. I just can't remember what that was. I don't sound so crazy now, do I?

Pretty damned crazy, yeah.
janesix
Posts: 3,467
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10/30/2016 8:45:41 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?
I was 37 years old when i first started believing in god. It took me 6 years to ultimately conclude i was just having hallucinations and delusions. Six years of misery.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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10/31/2016 5:54:28 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 11:10:21 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:05:18 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:02:41 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?

The examples you give are all of people coming to understand less, not more. This should tell you something significant.

exactly my son... can u answer them.. teach me a lesson in life.

Sure thing!

1) When talking about the origin of universe as a whole and the rules that govern it, we don't know what's possible or not. Maybe something can come from nothing. Maybe there's a something else from which it came. We don't know.

how something can come from nothing? nothing is non existence, its not there. zero always will be zero. no time no space or the like. or maybe where the rules came from? sure we dont know what out there and how it came about through our senses. so u have to use some deductive reasoning.


2) Nobody is claiming our universe or anything in it is infinitely old.

some atheists claim that... i cant judge every atheist for that but still its directed to some ppl.


3) See #1

i saw


Hope that helps.

its not :(
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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10/31/2016 5:59:33 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 8:45:41 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?
I was 37 years old when i first started believing in god. It took me 6 years to ultimately conclude i was just having hallucinations and delusions. Six years of misery.

and its not a delusion to believe that all things came by itself? laws of the universe they r just there? this is not superstition to u? or other things like consciousness? how it came about from material world to a being with consciousness? its a big problem for me... if u solved it congratulation my child :D
Never fart near dog
janesix
Posts: 3,467
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10/31/2016 6:06:58 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 5:59:33 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/30/2016 8:45:41 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?
I was 37 years old when i first started believing in god. It took me 6 years to ultimately conclude i was just having hallucinations and delusions. Six years of misery.

and its not a delusion to believe that all things came by itself? l
>>either god came by itself or the universe did. Take your pick.

aws of the universe they r just there? t
>>yeah, why not? Same as above.

his is not superstition to u?
>>no

or other things like consciousness? how it came about from material world to a being with consciousness? its a big problem for me... if u solved it congratulation my child :D

I am a panpsychist so consciosness is fundamental.
2for1
Posts: 82
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10/31/2016 6:21:00 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 8:45:41 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?
I was 37 years old when i first started believing in god. It took me 6 years to ultimately conclude i was just having hallucinations and delusions. Six years of misery. : :

The reason you don't believe in Me anymore is because you're listening to the wrong voices. There's only ONE true voice and that's the one that will be our Teacher in Paradise.
Graincruncher
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10/31/2016 7:27:07 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 5:54:28 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:10:21 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:05:18 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/30/2016 11:02:41 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?

The examples you give are all of people coming to understand less, not more. This should tell you something significant.

exactly my son... can u answer them.. teach me a lesson in life.

Sure thing!

1) When talking about the origin of universe as a whole and the rules that govern it, we don't know what's possible or not. Maybe something can come from nothing. Maybe there's a something else from which it came. We don't know.

how something can come from nothing? nothing is non existence, its not there. zero always will be zero. no time no space or the like. or maybe where the rules came from? sure we dont know what out there and how it came about through our senses. so u have to use some deductive reasoning.

I don't know, but since nothing has no rules governing what can and can't happen, we can't rule it out. Or even meaningfully discuss it. We just don't know. Exciting, isn't it?



2) Nobody is claiming our universe or anything in it is infinitely old.

some atheists claim that... i cant judge every atheist for that but still its directed to some ppl.

Very, very few. Certainly none I know. It's not the standard position.


3) See #1

i saw


Hope that helps.

its not :(
POPOO5560
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11/1/2016 7:14:12 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 6:06:58 AM, janesix wrote:
At 10/31/2016 5:59:33 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/30/2016 8:45:41 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?
I was 37 years old when i first started believing in god. It took me 6 years to ultimately conclude i was just having hallucinations and delusions. Six years of misery.

and its not a delusion to believe that all things came by itself? l
>>either god came by itself or the universe did. Take your pick.

LOL God definition is he is not bound by time or space. the universe is.


aws of the universe they r just there? t
>>yeah, why not? Same as above.

its not an answer. its just is.... "im a muslim bcz its how things go"


his is not superstition to u?
>>no

or other things like consciousness? how it came about from material world to a being with consciousness? its a big problem for me... if u solved it congratulation my child :D

I am a panpsychist so consciosness is fundamental.

panpsychist or not, the problem is consciousness exist in material/physical world. https://en.wikipedia.org...
Never fart near dog
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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11/1/2016 3:15:01 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?

Oh no, it was none of that nonsense.

The moment I realized God existed was when He revealed himself to all mankind everywhere equally, whereupon all religions became null and void as none were able to come close to what everyone was experiencing, suddenly all of humanity came together as one.

Then I woke up to reality.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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11/1/2016 3:30:54 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/1/2016 7:14:12 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
LOL God definition is he is not bound by time or space. the universe is.
That, of course, is a definition created by man.
janesix
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11/1/2016 8:03:26 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/1/2016 7:14:12 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:06:58 AM, janesix wrote:
At 10/31/2016 5:59:33 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/30/2016 8:45:41 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?
I was 37 years old when i first started believing in god. It took me 6 years to ultimately conclude i was just having hallucinations and delusions. Six years of misery.

and its not a delusion to believe that all things came by itself? l
>>either god came by itself or the universe did. Take your pick.

LOL God definition is he is not bound by time or space. the universe is.

As if YOU know God's limitations/or lack thereof.


aws of the universe they r just there? t
>>yeah, why not? Same as above.

its not an answer. its just is.... "im a muslim bcz its how things go"


his is not superstition to u?
>>no

or other things like consciousness? how it came about from material world to a being with consciousness? its a big problem for me... if u solved it congratulation my child :D

I am a panpsychist so consciosness is fundamental.

panpsychist or not, the problem is consciousness exist in material/physical world. https://en.wikipedia.org...
KwLm
Posts: 503
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11/1/2016 8:15:21 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 6:21:00 AM, 2for1 wrote:
At 10/30/2016 8:45:41 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?
I was 37 years old when i first started believing in god. It took me 6 years to ultimately conclude i was just having hallucinations and delusions. Six years of misery. : :

The reason you don't believe in Me anymore is because you're listening to the wrong voices. There's only ONE true voice and that's the one that will be our Teacher in Paradise.

Did you just refer to yerself as a god?
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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11/2/2016 4:02:19 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/1/2016 8:03:26 PM, janesix wrote:
At 11/1/2016 7:14:12 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/31/2016 6:06:58 AM, janesix wrote:
At 10/31/2016 5:59:33 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/30/2016 8:45:41 PM, janesix wrote:
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?
I was 37 years old when i first started believing in god. It took me 6 years to ultimately conclude i was just having hallucinations and delusions. Six years of misery.

and its not a delusion to believe that all things came by itself? l
>>either god came by itself or the universe did. Take your pick.

LOL God definition is he is not bound by time or space. the universe is.

As if YOU know God's limitations/or lack thereof.

I dont know by my self bcz i like it to feel that way. we come to this conclusion by logic. if u refute that way of logic i will throw it.

u can watch this debate https://www.youtube.com... Hamza (muslim debater) and Lawrence Krauss (the athiest debater), really interesting debate.


aws of the universe they r just there? t
>>yeah, why not? Same as above.

its not an answer. its just is.... "im a muslim bcz its how things go"


his is not superstition to u?
>>no

or other things like consciousness? how it came about from material world to a being with consciousness? its a big problem for me... if u solved it congratulation my child :D

I am a panpsychist so consciosness is fundamental.

panpsychist or not, the problem is consciousness exist in material/physical world. https://en.wikipedia.org...
Never fart near dog
ZenekPr0
Posts: 9
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11/2/2016 9:00:09 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?

OP doesn't know elementary physics. Virtual particles can pop into existence out of nothing. OP may try to say that what I call nothing is in fact something. My response to this would be that there is no reason to believe that absolute nothing ever existed.

https://www.youtube.com...

Another point is that it's perfectly possible that our Universe exists as 4 dimensional unchangeable space-time block. Einsteins theory of relativity suggests past, present and future don't exist. Moment of Big bang and far far future of our universe are exactly the same real. In this view nothing ever happened, nothing ever moved, nothing ever began.

https://www.youtube.com...

Did OP disproved this scientific theory?

You may believe in god if you wish but don't try to convince yourself or others that your belief is based on logic or reason. It's just faith.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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11/6/2016 7:30:53 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/2/2016 9:00:09 PM, ZenekPr0 wrote:
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?

OP doesn't know elementary physics.

-_-

Virtual particles can pop into existence out of nothing. OP may try to say that what I call nothing is in fact something.

Absolutely. bcz its something. im reffering to how lawrence krauss defines what is "nothing".

My response to this would be that there is no reason to believe that absolute nothing ever existed.

https://www.youtube.com...

so u say u have infinite past events (i dont want to call it "time") right? how is that possible? for instance. u kicked a ball. but before u kicked it your friend told u to do so. but before he told u so his friend told him so on and so forth... u would not kicked that ball in the first place if it was the case. irrational. im not denying that it exist in mathematics, but doesnt exist in the real world. this is my point my son.

Another point is that it's perfectly possible that our Universe exists as 4 dimensional unchangeable space-time block. Einsteins theory of relativity suggests past, present and future don't exist. Moment of Big bang and far far future of our universe are exactly the same real. In this view nothing ever happened, nothing ever moved, nothing ever began.

https://www.youtube.com...

" In this view nothing ever happened, nothing ever moved, nothing ever began. "

well im not yet engaged in this theory but thats sound absurd.


Did OP disproved this scientific theory?

its not "scientific". its deduction. u cant really prove "scientifically" everything. u have to use deduction my son. for example how do u know your great-great-great-great-great-grandmother exist? where is your "scientific" prove for that. btw dont use deduction.


You may believe in god if you wish but don't try to convince yourself or others that your belief is based on logic or reason. It's just faith.

(https://en.wikipedia.org...) learn little bit of psychology my son :D

if u want to watch good debate with Lawrence Krauss and a muslim guy... https://www.youtube.com...
Never fart near dog
ZenekPr0
Posts: 9
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11/8/2016 3:56:07 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/6/2016 7:30:53 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:

Absolutely. bcz its something. im reffering to how lawrence krauss defines what is "nothing".

My response to this would be that there is no reason to believe that absolute nothing ever existed.

https://www.youtube.com...

so u say u have infinite past events (i dont want to call it "time") right? how is that possible? for instance. u kicked a ball. but before u kicked it your friend told u to do so. but before he told u so his friend told him so on and so forth... u would not kicked that ball in the first place if it was the case. irrational. im not denying that it exist in mathematics, but doesnt exist in the real world. this is my point my son.

Infinite regress is very easy to imagine. There are viable scientific models that are past eternal. You would have to disprove huge part of contemporary cosmology to state otherwise.

Also you accept that god is past eternal so I can ask too: How is it possible? You can answer that god is timeless, but if you do so you admit that god isn't personal, conscious, or anything, it's just a pattern which nature follows. And that's because the only imaginable scenario in which timeless "god" creates universe is if god stay frozen still and the single thought in his mind is depicting the whole history of the universe from potential beginning to potential end. But since laws of nature can play the sae role we don't need god here.


Another point is that it's perfectly possible that our Universe exists as 4 dimensional unchangeable space-time block. Einsteins theory of relativity suggests past, present and future don't exist. Moment of Big bang and far far future of our universe are exactly the same real. In this view nothing ever happened, nothing ever moved, nothing ever began.

https://www.youtube.com...

" In this view nothing ever happened, nothing ever moved, nothing ever began. "

well im not yet engaged in this theory but thats sound absurd.

Absurdity is not a measure of truth or sense. Many things sound absurd, yet are true.



Did OP disproved this scientific theory?

its not "scientific". its deduction. u cant really prove "scientifically" everything. u have to use deduction my son. for example how do u know your great-great-great-great-great-grandmother exist? where is your "scientific" prove for that. btw dont use deduction.

I linked a video in which Brian Green, string theorist explains this thing to you. To be precise it's not a theory, it's plausible implication of theory of relativity.


You may believe in god if you wish but don't try to convince yourself or others that your belief is based on logic or reason. It's just faith.

(https://en.wikipedia.org...) learn little bit of psychology my son :D

Name me one good argument for the existence of god and I'll show why it doesn't work.


if u want to watch good debate with Lawrence Krauss and a muslim guy... https://www.youtube.com...

I didn;t watch it yet but what does it change? Krauss isn't good debater, he is ignoramus towards philosophy and it doesn't help him.
POPOO5560
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11/11/2016 12:07:10 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/8/2016 3:56:07 PM, ZenekPr0 wrote:
At 11/6/2016 7:30:53 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:

Absolutely. bcz its something. im reffering to how lawrence krauss defines what is "nothing".

My response to this would be that there is no reason to believe that absolute nothing ever existed.

https://www.youtube.com...

so u say u have infinite past events (i dont want to call it "time") right? how is that possible? for instance. u kicked a ball. but before u kicked it your friend told u to do so. but before he told u so his friend told him so on and so forth... u would not kicked that ball in the first place if it was the case. irrational. im not denying that it exist in mathematics, but doesnt exist in the real world. this is my point my son.

Infinite regress is very easy to imagine. There are viable scientific models that are past eternal. You would have to disprove huge part of contemporary cosmology to state otherwise.

Many philosophers debating on this issue bcz its not so easy to imagine as u say... even plenty scientists say time began to exist at the big bang. before that say "we dont know for sure" so they come with thoeries bcz they know Infinite regress doesnt make sense.


Also you accept that god is past eternal so I can ask too: How is it possible? You can answer that god is timeless, but if you do so you admit that god isn't personal, conscious, or anything, it's just a pattern which nature follows. And that's because the only imaginable scenario in which timeless "god" creates universe is if god stay frozen still and the single thought in his mind is depicting the whole history of the universe from potential beginning to potential end. But since laws of nature can play the sae role we don't need god here.

God created time and space or laws of nature. he doesnt bound by that. to him there is no past present and future. so putting him into the box to judge him according to our understanding is absurd. what we think or imagine is not him.. there is no likeness into him.



Another point is that it's perfectly possible that our Universe exists as 4 dimensional unchangeable space-time block. Einsteins theory of relativity suggests past, present and future don't exist. Moment of Big bang and far far future of our universe are exactly the same real. In this view nothing ever happened, nothing ever moved, nothing ever began.

https://www.youtube.com...

" In this view nothing ever happened, nothing ever moved, nothing ever began. "

well im not yet engaged in this theory but thats sound absurd.

Absurdity is not a measure of truth or sense. Many things sound absurd, yet are true.

true




Did OP disproved this scientific theory?

its not "scientific". its deduction. u cant really prove "scientifically" everything. u have to use deduction my son. for example how do u know your great-great-great-great-great-grandmother exist? where is your "scientific" prove for that. btw dont use deduction.

I linked a video in which Brian Green, string theorist explains this thing to you. To be precise it's not a theory, it's plausible implication of theory of relativity.

it is still a theory others say something else. but commenting on this stuff i will just make fool of myself need to check it out...



You may believe in god if you wish but don't try to convince yourself or others that your belief is based on logic or reason. It's just faith.

(https://en.wikipedia.org...) learn little bit of psychology my son :D

Name me one good argument for the existence of god and I'll show why it doesn't work.

sure how from material/physical world came the thing we called "consciousness", Hard problem of consciousness https://en.wikipedia.org...

this problem can be explained by God. consciousness is distinct from matter right? if so how it "came" from matter/physical pieces. the best explanation is an aware being created other beings with that stuff. or u have other explanations? from my understanding it cant come from physical stuff.



if u want to watch good debate with Lawrence Krauss and a muslim guy... https://www.youtube.com...

I didn;t watch it yet but what does it change? Krauss isn't good debater, he is ignoramus towards philosophy and it doesn't help him.

not sure if he is ignoramus at philosophy but still he is one of the leading public scientists...
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Porkloin
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11/11/2016 12:19:26 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite..

Gotta say that the "simple logic" about something not being able to come from nothing would also apply to supernatural beings, so there's no proof of any gods there.

As for "limited past," etc. - this appears to be viewing time as merely a one-dimensional "straight line." While that works to a large extent here on earth with our usually Newtonian perception, that really is not the way the universe as a whole is. You see a lot of people assuming that time "had a beginning," and they pluck at the notion of gods and just insert it there. Thomas Aquinas did that too, and there was no proof of anything, there, back then, and there isn't now.
difference
Posts: 177
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11/11/2016 2:10:05 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 10/30/2016 10:58:34 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
im sure we have here plenty ex-atheists and agnostics... who finally came to understand the simple logic that something cant come from nothing. that logically anything in the physical world have a some limited past and it cant be infinite.. or maybe the thought how the hell anything in universe came by itself and disgturbed your mind for long time? or what is your experience throughout? what feelings u had? what was the final push? it was liberating? how old r u?

About six months ago I seriously considered the existence of God, though it wasn't a religious conception. It wasn't the first time, but it was the most compelling.

It wasn't very liberating from what I remember, I'm guessing since I understood God more as a mechanic than as a miracle worker. If anything, I had a greater eureka moment from discarding that previous view of God than attaining it. That's not to say I felt absolutely nothing; it was nice at the time, because it gave me an answer to why/how things changed.

I've since returned to thinking "he exists or he doesn't" or "it doesn't matter."