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The significance of the existance of God

Quadrunner
Posts: 1,075
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11/8/2016 7:06:28 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
I question the motive behind countering and supporting the existence of God. Is it religious? Within our human lifetime, the point and frame of reference from which we are all studying the subject, what is the significance?

I would also like to respectfully put forward the proposal that if you believe the existence of a God is necessary for the religion, then you would naturally have doubts, whether realized or not, as to the validity of said religion on an earthly or personal, human basis; An internal argument over morality and righteousness is inevitable for the foreseeable future unless you either reject the religion and place complete faith in yourself, or put faith in someone else's compass as Christianity states. Thus someone else, God, must exist for you to be certain of morality, and righteousness and therefore, you will naturally have to believe in God to be at peace with yourself, justifying the motive for a follower of God to validate the existence, or at least the possibility of God.

However, I also place the counter claim that if God does not exist, and you follow scripture in the image of God, the outcome is the same. If you hold faith that the Word is God, the existence of God as a being becomes irrelevant in the human life, as the outcome of your actions is the same whether he is real or not. For all intensive purposes, leading a life believing in God, is still following your personal image of God, and so the image of God is all that is necessary to follow religion, or reject it. In your perspective, God, humans, and beings in general are only what you imagine them to be, regardless of how close you can approach reality.

From this I draw the notion that a state of righteousness as is written in scripture can theoretically be approached with or without the existence of God on earth so long as the actions are righteous and the intent pure, regardless of religious standing. An Atheist could read the Bible, draw wisdom from it, and practice a great life. A theist could follow an evil image of God, whether God exists or not, and bring much sorrow. Both could be said vice versa. Surely, our reaction to scripture in itself, which can be interpreted in multitudes of ways, could be the true test of whether or not we are fundamentally 'good' or 'bad' whether you are God, or someone who rejects the notion of God.

So with this in mind, on Earth in life, what is the significance of the existence of God in respect to religion, not science, not pondering our existence, not intervention theory, but the way WE choose to live?
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
dee-em
Posts: 6,451
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11/8/2016 11:01:04 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/8/2016 7:06:28 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
I question the motive behind countering and supporting the existence of God. Is it religious? Within our human lifetime, the point and frame of reference from which we are all studying the subject, what is the significance?

I would also like to respectfully put forward the proposal that if you believe the existence of a God is necessary for the religion, then you would naturally have doubts, whether realized or not, as to the validity of said religion on an earthly or personal, human basis; An internal argument over morality and righteousness is inevitable for the foreseeable future unless you either reject the religion and place complete faith in yourself, or put faith in someone else's compass as Christianity states. Thus someone else, God, must exist for you to be certain of morality, and righteousness and therefore, you will naturally have to believe in God to be at peace with yourself, justifying the motive for a follower of God to validate the existence, or at least the possibility of God.

However, I also place the counter claim that if God does not exist, and you follow scripture in the image of God, the outcome is the same. If you hold faith that the Word is God, the existence of God as a being becomes irrelevant in the human life, as the outcome of your actions is the same whether he is real or not. For all intensive purposes, leading a life believing in God, is still following your personal image of God, and so the image of God is all that is necessary to follow religion, or reject it. In your perspective, God, humans, and beings in general are only what you imagine them to be, regardless of how close you can approach reality.

From this I draw the notion that a state of righteousness as is written in scripture can theoretically be approached with or without the existence of God on earth so long as the actions are righteous and the intent pure, regardless of religious standing. An Atheist could read the Bible, draw wisdom from it, and practice a great life. A theist could follow an evil image of God, whether God exists or not, and bring much sorrow. Both could be said vice versa. Surely, our reaction to scripture in itself, which can be interpreted in multitudes of ways, could be the true test of whether or not we are fundamentally 'good' or 'bad' whether you are God, or someone who rejects the notion of God.

So with this in mind, on Earth in life, what is the significance of the existence of God in respect to religion, not science, not pondering our existence, not intervention theory, but the way WE choose to live?

Could you make the same argument for the scripture in the Qur'an?
How about the writings in The Lord of the Rings?
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,075
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11/8/2016 11:20:40 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/8/2016 11:01:04 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/8/2016 7:06:28 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
I question the motive behind countering and supporting the existence of God. Is it religious? Within our human lifetime, the point and frame of reference from which we are all studying the subject, what is the significance?

I would also like to respectfully put forward the proposal that if you believe the existence of a God is necessary for the religion, then you would naturally have doubts, whether realized or not, as to the validity of said religion on an earthly or personal, human basis; An internal argument over morality and righteousness is inevitable for the foreseeable future unless you either reject the religion and place complete faith in yourself, or put faith in someone else's compass as Christianity states. Thus someone else, God, must exist for you to be certain of morality, and righteousness and therefore, you will naturally have to believe in God to be at peace with yourself, justifying the motive for a follower of God to validate the existence, or at least the possibility of God.

However, I also place the counter claim that if God does not exist, and you follow scripture in the image of God, the outcome is the same. If you hold faith that the Word is God, the existence of God as a being becomes irrelevant in the human life, as the outcome of your actions is the same whether he is real or not. For all intensive purposes, leading a life believing in God, is still following your personal image of God, and so the image of God is all that is necessary to follow religion, or reject it. In your perspective, God, humans, and beings in general are only what you imagine them to be, regardless of how close you can approach reality.

From this I draw the notion that a state of righteousness as is written in scripture can theoretically be approached with or without the existence of God on earth so long as the actions are righteous and the intent pure, regardless of religious standing. An Atheist could read the Bible, draw wisdom from it, and practice a great life. A theist could follow an evil image of God, whether God exists or not, and bring much sorrow. Both could be said vice versa. Surely, our reaction to scripture in itself, which can be interpreted in multitudes of ways, could be the true test of whether or not we are fundamentally 'good' or 'bad' whether you are God, or someone who rejects the notion of God.

So with this in mind, on Earth in life, what is the significance of the existence of God in respect to religion, not science, not pondering our existence, not intervention theory, but the way WE choose to live?

Could you make the same argument for the scripture in the Qur'an?
How about the writings in The Lord of the Rings?

I haven't read the Qur'an, nor the Lord of the Rings. I'm a terrible fan I know....I'll just wallow in my shame. I've personally quoted lord of the rings with meaningful influence in life before, so I suppose the idea that existence is unnecessary to draw wisdom from text is recyclable in certain instances. I certainly didn't mean to limit the discussion to Christianity, but that's my main perspective.

"we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say"

-Senor Tree Dude
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Skeptical1
Posts: 656
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11/8/2016 11:23:46 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/8/2016 7:06:28 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
I question the motive behind countering and supporting the existence of God. Is it religious? Within our human lifetime, the point and frame of reference from which we are all studying the subject, what is the significance?

I would also like to respectfully put forward the proposal that if you believe the existence of a God is necessary for the religion, then you would naturally have doubts, whether realized or not, as to the validity of said religion on an earthly or personal, human basis; An internal argument over morality and righteousness is inevitable for the foreseeable future unless you either reject the religion and place complete faith in yourself, or put faith in someone else's compass as Christianity states. Thus someone else, God, must exist for you to be certain of morality, and righteousness and therefore, you will naturally have to believe in God to be at peace with yourself, justifying the motive for a follower of God to validate the existence, or at least the possibility of God.

However, I also place the counter claim that if God does not exist, and you follow scripture in the image of God, the outcome is the same. If you hold faith that the Word is God, the existence of God as a being becomes irrelevant in the human life, as the outcome of your actions is the same whether he is real or not. For all intensive purposes, leading a life believing in God, is still following your personal image of God, and so the image of God is all that is necessary to follow religion, or reject it. In your perspective, God, humans, and beings in general are only what you imagine them to be, regardless of how close you can approach reality.

From this I draw the notion that a state of righteousness as is written in scripture can theoretically be approached with or without the existence of God on earth so long as the actions are righteous and the intent pure, regardless of religious standing. An Atheist could read the Bible, draw wisdom from it, and practice a great life. A theist could follow an evil image of God, whether God exists or not, and bring much sorrow. Both could be said vice versa. Surely, our reaction to scripture in itself, which can be interpreted in multitudes of ways, could be the true test of whether or not we are fundamentally 'good' or 'bad' whether you are God, or someone who rejects the notion of God.

So with this in mind, on Earth in life, what is the significance of the existence of God in respect to religion, not science, not pondering our existence, not intervention theory, but the way WE choose to live?

From a purely ethical / moral viewpoint (which I assume from your reference to how "WE choose to live"), I would say the significance is this:

If you believe in an interventionist God that is concerned with what his creatures do, then -

1. Your primary concern is likely to be doing what pleases God (or at least this is what you will claim).
.
2. You are likely to claim that value judgements you make are supported (indeed commanded) by this being.

If you don't believe in such a being, then -

1. Your primary concern is likely to be doing what pleases yourself or other people (depending on your level of altruism).

2. You are more likely to claim that your value judgements are based on your own concept of right and wrong, and that any authority for them in so much as they affect others must come from some form of consensus approach.

I believe one of these approaches tends to favour the abdication of personal responsibility more than the other.

This is my understanding, of course a great many will disagree.
uncung
Posts: 3,433
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11/9/2016 3:32:33 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/8/2016 7:06:28 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
I question the motive behind countering and supporting the existence of God. Is it religious? Within our human lifetime, the point and frame of reference from which we are all studying the subject, what is the significance?

I would also like to respectfully put forward the proposal that if you believe the existence of a God is necessary for the religion, then you would naturally have doubts, whether realized or not, as to the validity of said religion on an earthly or personal, human basis; An internal argument over morality and righteousness is inevitable for the foreseeable future unless you either reject the religion and place complete faith in yourself, or put faith in someone else's compass as Christianity states. Thus someone else, God, must exist for you to be certain of morality, and righteousness and therefore, you will naturally have to believe in God to be at peace with yourself, justifying the motive for a follower of God to validate the existence, or at least the possibility of God.

However, I also place the counter claim that if God does not exist, and you follow scripture in the image of God, the outcome is the same. If you hold faith that the Word is God, the existence of God as a being becomes irrelevant in the human life, as the outcome of your actions is the same whether he is real or not. For all intensive purposes, leading a life believing in God, is still following your personal image of God, and so the image of God is all that is necessary to follow religion, or reject it. In your perspective, God, humans, and beings in general are only what you imagine them to be, regardless of how close you can approach reality.

From this I draw the notion that a state of righteousness as is written in scripture can theoretically be approached with or without the existence of God on earth so long as the actions are righteous and the intent pure, regardless of religious standing. An Atheist could read the Bible, draw wisdom from it, and practice a great life. A theist could follow an evil image of God, whether God exists or not, and bring much sorrow. Both could be said vice versa. Surely, our reaction to scripture in itself, which can be interpreted in multitudes of ways, could be the true test of whether or not we are fundamentally 'good' or 'bad' whether you are God, or someone who rejects the notion of God.

So with this in mind, on Earth in life, what is the significance of the existence of God in respect to religion, not science, not pondering our existence, not intervention theory, but the way WE choose to live?

and how do you determine which gods supposedly the true one?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,598
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11/9/2016 5:30:55 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/9/2016 3:32:33 AM, uncung wrote:
At 11/8/2016 7:06:28 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
I question the motive behind countering and supporting the existence of God. Is it religious? Within our human lifetime, the point and frame of reference from which we are all studying the subject, what is the significance?

I would also like to respectfully put forward the proposal that if you believe the existence of a God is necessary for the religion, then you would naturally have doubts, whether realized or not, as to the validity of said religion on an earthly or personal, human basis; An internal argument over morality and righteousness is inevitable for the foreseeable future unless you either reject the religion and place complete faith in yourself, or put faith in someone else's compass as Christianity states. Thus someone else, God, must exist for you to be certain of morality, and righteousness and therefore, you will naturally have to believe in God to be at peace with yourself, justifying the motive for a follower of God to validate the existence, or at least the possibility of God.

However, I also place the counter claim that if God does not exist, and you follow scripture in the image of God, the outcome is the same. If you hold faith that the Word is God, the existence of God as a being becomes irrelevant in the human life, as the outcome of your actions is the same whether he is real or not. For all intensive purposes, leading a life believing in God, is still following your personal image of God, and so the image of God is all that is necessary to follow religion, or reject it. In your perspective, God, humans, and beings in general are only what you imagine them to be, regardless of how close you can approach reality.

From this I draw the notion that a state of righteousness as is written in scripture can theoretically be approached with or without the existence of God on earth so long as the actions are righteous and the intent pure, regardless of religious standing. An Atheist could read the Bible, draw wisdom from it, and practice a great life. A theist could follow an evil image of God, whether God exists or not, and bring much sorrow. Both could be said vice versa. Surely, our reaction to scripture in itself, which can be interpreted in multitudes of ways, could be the true test of whether or not we are fundamentally 'good' or 'bad' whether you are God, or someone who rejects the notion of God.

So with this in mind, on Earth in life, what is the significance of the existence of God in respect to religion, not science, not pondering our existence, not intervention theory, but the way WE choose to live?

and how do you determine which gods supposedly the true one?

That would be the god that steps up and reveals himself to all mankind. There is no other way to determine a true god, a god has to do that for us.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,075
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11/18/2016 11:23:19 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/9/2016 3:32:33 AM, uncung wrote:
At 11/8/2016 7:06:28 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
I question the motive behind countering and supporting the existence of God. Is it religious? Within our human lifetime, the point and frame of reference from which we are all studying the subject, what is the significance?

I would also like to respectfully put forward the proposal that if you believe the existence of a God is necessary for the religion, then you would naturally have doubts, whether realized or not, as to the validity of said religion on an earthly or personal, human basis; An internal argument over morality and righteousness is inevitable for the foreseeable future unless you either reject the religion and place complete faith in yourself, or put faith in someone else's compass as Christianity states. Thus someone else, God, must exist for you to be certain of morality, and righteousness and therefore, you will naturally have to believe in God to be at peace with yourself, justifying the motive for a follower of God to validate the existence, or at least the possibility of God.

However, I also place the counter claim that if God does not exist, and you follow scripture in the image of God, the outcome is the same. If you hold faith that the Word is God, the existence of God as a being becomes irrelevant in the human life, as the outcome of your actions is the same whether he is real or not. For all intensive purposes, leading a life believing in God, is still following your personal image of God, and so the image of God is all that is necessary to follow religion, or reject it. In your perspective, God, humans, and beings in general are only what you imagine them to be, regardless of how close you can approach reality.

From this I draw the notion that a state of righteousness as is written in scripture can theoretically be approached with or without the existence of God on earth so long as the actions are righteous and the intent pure, regardless of religious standing. An Atheist could read the Bible, draw wisdom from it, and practice a great life. A theist could follow an evil image of God, whether God exists or not, and bring much sorrow. Both could be said vice versa. Surely, our reaction to scripture in itself, which can be interpreted in multitudes of ways, could be the true test of whether or not we are fundamentally 'good' or 'bad' whether you are God, or someone who rejects the notion of God.

So with this in mind, on Earth in life, what is the significance of the existence of God in respect to religion, not science, not pondering our existence, not intervention theory, but the way WE choose to live?

and how do you determine which gods supposedly the true one?

After reading all of that, I ask why you are concerned which God is true. What is the significance of the existence of God?
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Looncall
Posts: 449
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11/18/2016 11:58:05 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/8/2016 7:06:28 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
I question the motive behind countering and supporting the existence of God. Is it religious? Within our human lifetime, the point and frame of reference from which we are all studying the subject, what is the significance?

I would also like to respectfully put forward the proposal that if you believe the existence of a God is necessary for the religion, then you would naturally have doubts, whether realized or not, as to the validity of said religion on an earthly or personal, human basis; An internal argument over morality and righteousness is inevitable for the foreseeable future unless you either reject the religion and place complete faith in yourself, or put faith in someone else's compass as Christianity states. Thus someone else, God, must exist for you to be certain of morality, and righteousness and therefore, you will naturally have to believe in God to be at peace with yourself, justifying the motive for a follower of God to validate the existence, or at least the possibility of God.

However, I also place the counter claim that if God does not exist, and you follow scripture in the image of God, the outcome is the same. If you hold faith that the Word is God, the existence of God as a being becomes irrelevant in the human life, as the outcome of your actions is the same whether he is real or not. For all intensive purposes, leading a life believing in God, is still following your personal image of God, and so the image of God is all that is necessary to follow religion, or reject it. In your perspective, God, humans, and beings in general are only what you imagine them to be, regardless of how close you can approach reality.

From this I draw the notion that a state of righteousness as is written in scripture can theoretically be approached with or without the existence of God on earth so long as the actions are righteous and the intent pure, regardless of religious standing. An Atheist could read the Bible, draw wisdom from it, and practice a great life. A theist could follow an evil image of God, whether God exists or not, and bring much sorrow. Both could be said vice versa. Surely, our reaction to scripture in itself, which can be interpreted in multitudes of ways, could be the true test of whether or not we are fundamentally 'good' or 'bad' whether you are God, or someone who rejects the notion of God.

So with this in mind, on Earth in life, what is the significance of the existence of God in respect to religion, not science, not pondering our existence, not intervention theory, but the way WE choose to live?

The notion of gods is just a fiction used by scoundrels to con the gullible. That's the significance of gods.
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
uncung
Posts: 3,433
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11/19/2016 12:48:15 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/18/2016 11:23:19 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/9/2016 3:32:33 AM, uncung wrote:
At 11/8/2016 7:06:28 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
I question the motive behind countering and supporting the existence of God. Is it religious? Within our human lifetime, the point and frame of reference from which we are all studying the subject, what is the significance?

I would also like to respectfully put forward the proposal that if you believe the existence of a God is necessary for the religion, then you would naturally have doubts, whether realized or not, as to the validity of said religion on an earthly or personal, human basis; An internal argument over morality and righteousness is inevitable for the foreseeable future unless you either reject the religion and place complete faith in yourself, or put faith in someone else's compass as Christianity states. Thus someone else, God, must exist for you to be certain of morality, and righteousness and therefore, you will naturally have to believe in God to be at peace with yourself, justifying the motive for a follower of God to validate the existence, or at least the possibility of God.

However, I also place the counter claim that if God does not exist, and you follow scripture in the image of God, the outcome is the same. If you hold faith that the Word is God, the existence of God as a being becomes irrelevant in the human life, as the outcome of your actions is the same whether he is real or not. For all intensive purposes, leading a life believing in God, is still following your personal image of God, and so the image of God is all that is necessary to follow religion, or reject it. In your perspective, God, humans, and beings in general are only what you imagine them to be, regardless of how close you can approach reality.

From this I draw the notion that a state of righteousness as is written in scripture can theoretically be approached with or without the existence of God on earth so long as the actions are righteous and the intent pure, regardless of religious standing. An Atheist could read the Bible, draw wisdom from it, and practice a great life. A theist could follow an evil image of God, whether God exists or not, and bring much sorrow. Both could be said vice versa. Surely, our reaction to scripture in itself, which can be interpreted in multitudes of ways, could be the true test of whether or not we are fundamentally 'good' or 'bad' whether you are God, or someone who rejects the notion of God.

So with this in mind, on Earth in life, what is the significance of the existence of God in respect to religion, not science, not pondering our existence, not intervention theory, but the way WE choose to live?

and how do you determine which gods supposedly the true one?

After reading all of that, I ask why you are concerned which God is true. What is the significance of the existence of God?

Because Hindu and Bahai also believe in God. But in different attribution and attitudes.
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,075
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11/20/2016 2:46:59 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 12:48:15 AM, uncung wrote:
At 11/18/2016 11:23:19 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/9/2016 3:32:33 AM, uncung wrote:
At 11/8/2016 7:06:28 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
I question the motive behind countering and supporting the existence of God. Is it religious? Within our human lifetime, the point and frame of reference from which we are all studying the subject, what is the significance?

I would also like to respectfully put forward the proposal that if you believe the existence of a God is necessary for the religion, then you would naturally have doubts, whether realized or not, as to the validity of said religion on an earthly or personal, human basis; An internal argument over morality and righteousness is inevitable for the foreseeable future unless you either reject the religion and place complete faith in yourself, or put faith in someone else's compass as Christianity states. Thus someone else, God, must exist for you to be certain of morality, and righteousness and therefore, you will naturally have to believe in God to be at peace with yourself, justifying the motive for a follower of God to validate the existence, or at least the possibility of God.

However, I also place the counter claim that if God does not exist, and you follow scripture in the image of God, the outcome is the same. If you hold faith that the Word is God, the existence of God as a being becomes irrelevant in the human life, as the outcome of your actions is the same whether he is real or not. For all intensive purposes, leading a life believing in God, is still following your personal image of God, and so the image of God is all that is necessary to follow religion, or reject it. In your perspective, God, humans, and beings in general are only what you imagine them to be, regardless of how close you can approach reality.

From this I draw the notion that a state of righteousness as is written in scripture can theoretically be approached with or without the existence of God on earth so long as the actions are righteous and the intent pure, regardless of religious standing. An Atheist could read the Bible, draw wisdom from it, and practice a great life. A theist could follow an evil image of God, whether God exists or not, and bring much sorrow. Both could be said vice versa. Surely, our reaction to scripture in itself, which can be interpreted in multitudes of ways, could be the true test of whether or not we are fundamentally 'good' or 'bad' whether you are God, or someone who rejects the notion of God.

So with this in mind, on Earth in life, what is the significance of the existence of God in respect to religion, not science, not pondering our existence, not intervention theory, but the way WE choose to live?

and how do you determine which gods supposedly the true one?

After reading all of that, I ask why you are concerned which God is true. What is the significance of the existence of God?

Because Hindu and Bahai also believe in God. But in different attribution and attitudes.

One of my favorite movie scenes
https://www.youtube.com...
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.