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Islam and Jesus

Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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1/20/2011 11:12:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Islam holds Jesus to be the penultimate prophet, indeed certain Islamic end time scenarios claim that both Jesus and Muhammad are to return and defeat the forces of Satan.

How however do Muslims reconcile the pacifism of Jesus with the militancy of Muhammad?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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1/20/2011 11:25:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 11:12:06 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Islam holds Jesus to be the penultimate prophet, indeed certain Islamic end time scenarios claim that both Jesus and Muhammad are to return and defeat the forces of Satan.

How however do Muslims reconcile the pacifism of Jesus with the militancy of Muhammad?

Have you read the gospels ? Where did you get that idea from ?
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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1/20/2011 11:31:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 11:12:06 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Islam holds Jesus to be the penultimate prophet, indeed certain Islamic end time scenarios claim that both Jesus and Muhammad are to return and defeat the forces of Satan.

How however do Muslims reconcile the pacifism of Jesus with the militancy of Muhammad?:

According to the gospels, Jesus' first appeared as the Suffering Servant, but will come back with a "sword" to judge the wicked.... basically, you and I.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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1/20/2011 11:32:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 11:25:51 AM, vardas0antras wrote:
At 1/20/2011 11:12:06 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Islam holds Jesus to be the penultimate prophet, indeed certain Islamic end time scenarios claim that both Jesus and Muhammad are to return and defeat the forces of Satan.

How however do Muslims reconcile the pacifism of Jesus with the militancy of Muhammad?

Have you read the gospels ? Where did you get that idea from ?

The gospels.
Quote them if you disagree.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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1/20/2011 11:33:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 11:31:06 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 1/20/2011 11:12:06 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Islam holds Jesus to be the penultimate prophet, indeed certain Islamic end time scenarios claim that both Jesus and Muhammad are to return and defeat the forces of Satan.

How however do Muslims reconcile the pacifism of Jesus with the militancy of Muhammad?:

According to the gospels, Jesus' first appeared as the Suffering Servant, but will come back with a "sword" to judge the wicked.... basically, you and I.

The question still remains, Jesus in his ministry was a pacifist, Mohammed in his sacked cities.

In any case the sword reference is generally thought to be a metaphor.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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1/20/2011 11:33:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Muslims question the validity of the Christian bible itself.

From the Muslims I have talked to in the past, including a Sheik, this is what I gathered.

They respect it as a holy book, but say that it has been corrupted to the point of losing its meaning.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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1/20/2011 11:34:58 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 11:33:43 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Muslims question the validity of the Christian bible itself.

From the Muslims I have talked to in the past, including a Sheik, this is what I gathered.

They respect it as a holy book, but say that it has been corrupted to the point of losing its meaning.

So where is detailed this Muslim Jesus that makes sense within Islamic belief?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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1/20/2011 11:35:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
And by the way, I think a whole topic could probably be dedicated to the Pacifism of Jesus.

If he wasn't a pacifist, he certainly was very non-violent.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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1/20/2011 11:42:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 11:33:39 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 1/20/2011 11:31:06 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 1/20/2011 11:12:06 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Islam holds Jesus to be the penultimate prophet, indeed certain Islamic end time scenarios claim that both Jesus and Muhammad are to return and defeat the forces of Satan.

How however do Muslims reconcile the pacifism of Jesus with the militancy of Muhammad?:

According to the gospels, Jesus' first appeared as the Suffering Servant, but will come back with a "sword" to judge the wicked.... basically, you and I.

The question still remains, Jesus in his ministry was a pacifist, Mohammed in his sacked cities.

In any case the sword reference is generally thought to be a metaphor.:

I'm not so sure about that.

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law— a man's enemies will be the members of his own household." -- Matthew 10:34-36

And then there's all the references of pouring out bowls of wrath when the seven seals are opened in the Book of Revelation. The return is supposed to be brutal in protracted misery... you know, basically everything you'd expect from a loving God. :)
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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1/20/2011 11:46:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 11:42:59 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 1/20/2011 11:33:39 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 1/20/2011 11:31:06 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 1/20/2011 11:12:06 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Islam holds Jesus to be the penultimate prophet, indeed certain Islamic end time scenarios claim that both Jesus and Muhammad are to return and defeat the forces of Satan.

How however do Muslims reconcile the pacifism of Jesus with the militancy of Muhammad?:

According to the gospels, Jesus' first appeared as the Suffering Servant, but will come back with a "sword" to judge the wicked.... basically, you and I.

The question still remains, Jesus in his ministry was a pacifist, Mohammed in his sacked cities.

In any case the sword reference is generally thought to be a metaphor.:

I'm not so sure about that.

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law— a man's enemies will be the members of his own household." -- Matthew 10:34-36


Isn't that a reference to the idea that a Christian should forsake everything and everyone but Jesus.

And then there's all the references of pouring out bowls of wrath when the seven seals are opened in the Book of Revelation. The return is supposed to be brutal in protracted misery... you know, basically everything you'd expect from a loving God. :)

Yep! Good stuff!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,751
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1/20/2011 11:58:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 11:12:06 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Islam holds Jesus to be the penultimate prophet, indeed certain Islamic end time scenarios claim that both Jesus and Muhammad are to return and defeat the forces of Satan.

How however do Muslims reconcile the pacifism of Jesus with the militancy of Muhammad?

Response: In islam, there were many prophets. Some were rulers, while others were just messengers. Jesus (SAS) was just a messenger and was not given any kingdom or granted the status of a ruler over his people, like Moses, David, Solomon, or Muhammad was. Thus it is not the case that Jesus is pacific, but rather Jesus played a different role. For naturally, as a ruler over a people, Muhammad was responsible for engaging in battle and leading armies against enemies of islam, as any ruler does. It was his job to enforce not only the law, but it's discipline and punishment for breaking the law as well. Jesus was not a ruler, but was just a messenger. As such, he did not have such a responsibility, which is why his life and teaching didn't involve such militancy and discipline as Muhammad, Moses, and other prophets who were rulers had.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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1/20/2011 11:59:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Isn't that a reference to the idea that a Christian should forsake everything and everyone but Jesus.:

To some extent, yes. But the overall message in that chapter is a clear reference to the End Times and what will happen at the 2nd Coming. IOW, he's saying that he's coming back to bring division -- you're either with him or against him, and no one (not even your own family) should dissuade you from siding against him during this time of wrath.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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1/20/2011 2:25:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 11:12:06 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Islam holds Jesus to be the penultimate prophet, indeed certain Islamic end time scenarios claim that both Jesus and Muhammad are to return and defeat the forces of Satan.

How however do Muslims reconcile the pacifism of Jesus with the militancy of Muhammad?
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) will not return here, but Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) will, and he will enter battles against evildoers. He was never a pacifist. A pacifist is one who bears no justice in his heart when it comes to defending against physical oppression. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was not pacifist either, but he forbade any act of aggression, violation of treaties, and other such things.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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1/20/2011 2:27:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 11:33:43 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Muslims question the validity of the Christian bible itself.

From the Muslims I have talked to in the past, including a Sheik, this is what I gathered.

They respect it as a holy book, but say that it has been corrupted to the point of losing its meaning.
Yes, we must never insult other religions/beliefs, but we don't believe in the Bible. We have the Qur'an as the first priority, then the Sahih Hadith. The Bible was once known as "Injeel," but it became corrupt, since it was never meant to be sent to all of humankind.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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1/20/2011 2:29:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 2:25:10 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 1/20/2011 11:12:06 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Islam holds Jesus to be the penultimate prophet, indeed certain Islamic end time scenarios claim that both Jesus and Muhammad are to return and defeat the forces of Satan.

How however do Muslims reconcile the pacifism of Jesus with the militancy of Muhammad?
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) will not return here, but Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) will, and he will enter battles against evildoers.:

Will you go to hell if you don't add "PBUH" to Muhammad and Isa or is it just a respect thing?
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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1/20/2011 2:32:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 2:29:13 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 1/20/2011 2:25:10 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 1/20/2011 11:12:06 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Islam holds Jesus to be the penultimate prophet, indeed certain Islamic end time scenarios claim that both Jesus and Muhammad are to return and defeat the forces of Satan.

How however do Muslims reconcile the pacifism of Jesus with the militancy of Muhammad?
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) will not return here, but Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) will, and he will enter battles against evildoers.:

Will you go to hell if you don't add "PBUH" to Muhammad and Isa or is it just a respect thing?
Out of honor/respect. You don't go tell Hell for making one sin regardless. Islam speaks a great deal about learning from mistakes/repent.m