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Was Jesus a Pacifist?

CosmicAlfonzo
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1/20/2011 11:40:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Just reading through all the topics around here. It's now being discussed in multiple topics, to why not keep it here?

If you read this Gospels, I think it is pretty obvious that Jesus was portrayed as a pacifist or at the very least a very non-violent person. I think it is absurd to claim otherwise, so I do not feel the need to defend my position.

However, the rest of you can argue about it, and if someone makes a good point, I might chime in.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Cerebral_Narcissist
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1/20/2011 11:43:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 11:40:05 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Just reading through all the topics around here. It's now being discussed in multiple topics, to why not keep it here?


You have read this in another topic, because I've just started one where this is being discussed because it's directly relevant. We did not really need a new one.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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1/20/2011 11:54:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 11:40:05 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Just reading through all the topics around here. It's now being discussed in multiple topics, to why not keep it here?

If you read this Gospels, I think it is pretty obvious that Jesus was portrayed as a pacifist or at the very least a very non-violent person. I think it is absurd to claim otherwise, so I do not feel the need to defend my position.:

There's quite a bit of contradiction on Jesus' part. In the gospel he throws a hissy fit when he sees the moneychangers selling in the Temple of Solomon, and starts releasing doves and flipping tables over. In one gospel (Luke, I think) he whipped people out of the Temple, which is something he would be arrested for in today's zeitgeist.

Then there's the whole "sword" thing. In one instance he says, "Those who live by the sword, shall die by the sword," after Peter took a sword and chopped off a guy's left ear. Peter was protecting Jesus at the time.

But then in other verses he tells his apostles to go out and buy swords, and also says that upon his return, he's coming back with a sword. Obviously the "sword" is a metaphor for him coming back violently.

The point is, he contradicts himself throughout the bible. So we really can't make any good assumptions on whether he was violent or a pacifist. All we know is that he contradicted himself.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
CosmicAlfonzo
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1/20/2011 12:22:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 11:43:56 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 1/20/2011 11:40:05 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Just reading through all the topics around here. It's now being discussed in multiple topics, to why not keep it here?


You have read this in another topic, because I've just started one where this is being discussed because it's directly relevant. We did not really need a new one.

Maybe you didn't, but it was talked about in at least 2 topics, and given that we have like 3 topics about Muhammad, why not?

At 1/20/2011 11:54:19 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
The point is, he contradicts himself throughout the bible. So we really can't make any good assumptions on whether he was violent or a pacifist. All we know is that he contradicted himself.

Yeah, I'll go with that. IF Jesus ever existed, It is pretty obvious that the bible doesn't paint an accurate picture of what Jesus was like.

I mean, hell, just compare John to any of the other Gospels... Jesus is like, drastically different.

But overall, I'd still say he preached a message of hippie peace and love. If you read the gospels with that kind of mind set, you do not interpret the things that Jesus says and does as being violent, or advocating violence.

I see many people reference to this passage..

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law— a man's enemies will be the members of his own household."

This passage, especially if you read the text before it can easily mean that people who believe in Jesus are going to get a lot of heat from the people around them. Believing in something different than your family is definitely going to cause dissension, I can testify to that.

How Jesus was as an actual person on Earth? There is no real way to even paint an accurate picture, all the gospels were written long after the events described anyway.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
PARADIGM_L0ST
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1/20/2011 12:59:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Yeah, I'll go with that. IF Jesus ever existed:

I think more than likely Jesus (Yeshua) did in fact exist, and caused quite a commotion. I also believe that he was murdered on account of that because there is extra-biblical evidence pointing to it. Be that as it may, the stories attributed to him years after his death were greatly exaggerated.

I mean, hell, just compare John to any of the other Gospels... Jesus is like, drastically different.:

Compare all the gospels ever written about him, canonized and non-canonized. They all differ considerably.

But overall, I'd still say he preached a message of hippie peace and love. If you read the gospels with that kind of mind set, you do not interpret the things that Jesus says and does as being violent, or advocating violence.:

Yes, his violence would supposedly come after his death, burial, and resurection.

I see many people reference to this passage..

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law— a man's enemies will be the members of his own household."

This passage, especially if you read the text before it can easily mean that people who believe in Jesus are going to get a lot of heat from the people around them. Believing in something different than your family is definitely going to cause dissension, I can testify to that.:

True, just like, "If they hate you on account of me, know that they hated me first." However, that whole chapter is dedicated to the End Times. It's specifically referencing how you're either with him or against him in those days. Mind you, this is after the supposed rapture. These are End Times Christians versus the overwhelming majority of the world.

How Jesus was as an actual person on Earth? There is no real way to even paint an accurate picture, all the gospels were written long after the events described anyway.:

Yep... Can't argue that. We have tiny, disparate pieces of a puzzle and we don't even know the accuracy of the testimony.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Charles0103
Posts: 523
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1/20/2011 3:31:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
How do they differ?
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
Jarjar3000
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1/20/2011 10:46:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The Gospels were written within the same generation as when Jesus lived on Earth. Not even close to enough time for it to be exagerated, plus why would the disciples exagerate and make up a lie and then die for that lie, Only John did not become a martyr. No one would die for something that they know is a lie.
Ohh Lord How you love me, you change my heart and soul, renewing my mind into something I could never imagine, You make me strong when I am weak, you encourage me when I'm despaired, You stick by me when everyone deserts me, You are my Lord You are my God.

Charles: I'm not a Christian because I'm afraid of hell, I'm a Christian because I love Jesus.

Geolaureate: The Pope
He looks like a Sith lord, I don't trust him.

Charles0103: Just like my God, my faith won't change.
gavin.ogden
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1/20/2011 11:31:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 10:46:05 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
The Gospels were written within the same generation as when Jesus lived on Earth. Not even close to enough time for it to be exagerated, plus why would the disciples exagerate and make up a lie and then die for that lie, Only John did not become a martyr. No one would die for something that they know is a lie.

Someone has taken you for a long ride, and you just let em'. Congratulations on quitting on your own life before it got started. Sad...
Jarjar3000
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1/20/2011 11:52:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
That is right, I do not live for my own desires and my personal self. I no longer Live but Christ lives in me.

Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?
Matthew 16:24-26
Ohh Lord How you love me, you change my heart and soul, renewing my mind into something I could never imagine, You make me strong when I am weak, you encourage me when I'm despaired, You stick by me when everyone deserts me, You are my Lord You are my God.

Charles: I'm not a Christian because I'm afraid of hell, I'm a Christian because I love Jesus.

Geolaureate: The Pope
He looks like a Sith lord, I don't trust him.

Charles0103: Just like my God, my faith won't change.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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1/20/2011 11:52:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 10:46:05 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
The Gospels were written within the same generation as when Jesus lived on Earth. Not even close to enough time for it to be exagerated:

Want to know the earliest manuscript written about Jesus? The first was Mark, some 60 years after the fact. It's been 60 years since WWII. Was that right around the corner in relation to time? Absolutely not. Moreover, Mark NEVER met Jesus.

Matthew was written around 70 years after Jesus. Oh, dear.. We have a problem though. Matthew met Jesus when he was at least in his 20's. So Matthew wrote his gospel in his 90's? Uh, yeah, don't think so.

Luke? Well, that was written 90 years after the fact.... Oh, and Luke never met Jesus either. Only Matthew and John were supposedly firsthand accounts of Jesus.

What about historians of that time? None report any miracles of any kind. All they say is that a man named Jesus lived, was a trouble-maker, was killed for it, and that he had a considerable following thereafter. And utilizing Ockham's Razor, that's likely the most accurate.

plus why would the disciples exagerate and make up a lie and then die for that lie Only John did not become a martyr. No one would die for something that they know is a lie.:

First of all, we have no way of knowing whether or not the apostles actually wrote the gospels. They could have been written by any number of people. For instance, the Gospel of Judas. Was that written by Judas because it claims it was?

It would be pretty remarkable for him to write it.... after he was dead. Also, Mark (one of the authors) never met Jesus.... Ever.... Yet he knows all these details about him. How does he know these details? And what about Paul? Never met Jesus. Not ever (excluding of course his claim that he met his ghost on the road to Damascus). His persecution of Christians as Saul came after Jesus was dead, yet he's going to to tell us all about Jesus? They were stories told to them, and they were swept up in the fervor.

It's no different than you believing in the stories after having heard about it. Did you witness Jesus doing any of those things? No? And yet, you believe it. It is therefore more than conceivable that they were stories passed down and later transcribed.

Secondly, I don't necessarily think the apostles were lying. Were the Branch Davidians "lying" when they said that David Koresh was the messiah? How about just about all cults? They aren't lying, they've been manipulated.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
gavin.ogden
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1/20/2011 11:59:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 11:52:40 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
That is right, I do not live for my own desires and my personal self. I no longer Live but Christ lives in me.

Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?
Matthew 16:24-26

Sad...
Jarjar3000
Posts: 273
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1/21/2011 12:11:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Haha P your timing for the Gospels being written is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy off my friend. First off you have no sources for anything you just said so why should I believe you second Gospel of Judas REALLY???? Gospel of Judas equals Gnostics some hundred or so years later. Mark got his info from Peter, ever heard of him. Luke did research and talked to eyewitnesses much like a reporter. Speaking of Paul, why did he convert after soooo readily wanting to stamp out this christian sect, he gave up everything his social status, money, family, and eventually his life. Why would someone do that? Your logic of comparing me to the Apostles is flawed, they were their, seeing Jesus with their own eyes, I alas have not. Now if they knew that Jesus was never resurrected WHy ohhh WHY would they go around saying he was and be abused and mistreated and eventually murdered for something they knew to be false unless of course they knew he had been resurrected.

http://carm.org...
http://stellarhousepublishing.com...
http://www.ichthus.info...
Ohh Lord How you love me, you change my heart and soul, renewing my mind into something I could never imagine, You make me strong when I am weak, you encourage me when I'm despaired, You stick by me when everyone deserts me, You are my Lord You are my God.

Charles: I'm not a Christian because I'm afraid of hell, I'm a Christian because I love Jesus.

Geolaureate: The Pope
He looks like a Sith lord, I don't trust him.

Charles0103: Just like my God, my faith won't change.
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
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1/21/2011 12:15:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 11:52:41 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 1/20/2011 10:46:05 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
The Gospels were written within the same generation as when Jesus lived on Earth. Not even close to enough time for it to be exagerated:

Want to know the earliest manuscript written about Jesus? The first was Mark, some 60 years after the fact. It's been 60 years since WWII. Was that right around the corner in relation to time? Absolutely not. Moreover, Mark NEVER met Jesus.

The gospels aren't our earliest sources... The earliest sources we have come in the form of creeds found in Paul's epistles some 3-7 years after Jesus' lifetime. Please do not feign knowledge that you do not posses.
Jarjar3000
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1/21/2011 12:22:02 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Wow I cannot believe I didn't even think about that, I knew it but just slipped my mind.
Thanks IT
Ohh Lord How you love me, you change my heart and soul, renewing my mind into something I could never imagine, You make me strong when I am weak, you encourage me when I'm despaired, You stick by me when everyone deserts me, You are my Lord You are my God.

Charles: I'm not a Christian because I'm afraid of hell, I'm a Christian because I love Jesus.

Geolaureate: The Pope
He looks like a Sith lord, I don't trust him.

Charles0103: Just like my God, my faith won't change.
angel_friend
Posts: 9
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1/21/2011 5:25:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 12:22:03 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Yeah, I'll go with that. IF Jesus ever existed, It is pretty obvious that the bible doesn't paint an accurate picture of what Jesus was like.

Well if u add a mark question on Jesus existance is like u question the existance of all faiths: judaism, christianism, hinduism, islamism and so on. What prouve u have that Buddah or Shiva or Mohamed or Moise existed? What about manuscripts from Dead Sea? at list is sure this "legend" has at list more then 2000 years existance.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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1/21/2011 8:04:10 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/21/2011 12:11:29 AM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
Haha P your timing for the Gospels being written is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy off my friend. First off you have no sources for anything you just said so why should I believe you:

Even most Christian sources agree that not one gospel was written before 60 AD, which is still 30 years after the fact... And that's being generous.

Most scholars believe that:

Gospel of Mark: 60-70 AD
Gospel of Matthew: 70-100 AD
Gospel of Luke: 80-90 AD
Gospel of John: 80-95 AD

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org...

second Gospel of Judas REALLY???? Gospel of Judas equals Gnostics some hundred or so years later.:

You're missing my point. I am saying that simply because it is NAMED the gospel of Judas, does that mean Judas actually wrote? I certainly hope not since it was written a good 200 years after Judas allegedly died.

Mark got his info from Peter, ever heard of him.:

None of that is corroborated. That he worked with Peter is all based on oral tradition, not substantiated by anything of fact. It's really immaterial to my point anyhow. He wasn't there, and never met Jesus, never witnessed anything. What you have with the Gospels is the game of "telephone."

Luke did research and talked to eyewitnesses much like a reporter. Speaking of Paul, why did he convert after soooo readily wanting to stamp out this christian sect, he gave up everything his social status, money, family, and eventually his life. Why would someone do that?:

Whatever allegedly happened is completely moot for the simple fact that Paul couldn't even keep his own facts straight, so his testimony is suspect.

Please compare his conversion stories and note the glaring contradiction between Acts 22:9 and Acts 9:7.

"And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spoke to me." -- Acts 22:9

"And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man" -- Acts 9:7

Well, which is it, Paul? Was Jesus seen, but not heard -- or heard but not seen? And please note how the same book, supposedly authored by Paul, goes in and out of First Person to Second Person literary structure. Infallible Word of God??? Hardly. The whole thing is suspect and lacks credibility.

Yeah, they don't teach that one in Sunday school, eh?

Your logic of comparing me to the Apostles is flawed, they were their, seeing Jesus with their own eyes, I alas have not. Now if they knew that Jesus was never resurrected WHy ohhh WHY would they go around saying he was and be abused and mistreated and eventually murdered for something they knew to be false unless of course they knew he had been resurrected.:

Because they BELIEVED he was resurrected just like you! You have to remember that Jesus told them over and over again that he was going to die and be raised the 3rd day. This man, Yeshua, obviously was a very enigmatic figure with a strong power of persuasion. That can be agreed upon, whether you think he was the Son of God or just another false messiah in a long list of false messiahs.

I mean, what the f*ck. Ever heard of Heaven's Gate? These people were convinced by their charismatic leader that a comet was coming to the earth. The only way to survive the impending doom, ironically, was by committing mass suicide. These people were convinced by this leader that they all needed to be wearing Nike sneakers in order to have a safe journey to the other side.

Now, if we interviewed them a day before their suicide, would they be lying to us about their leader, or would they simply be misinformed by the leaders delusion?

Stop drinking the Kool-Aid and start thinking on your own.

http://carm.org...
http://stellarhousepublishing.com...
http://www.ichthus.info...:

Haha, all your sources are biased. You couldn't find one neutral source? Poor form.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Mirza
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1/21/2011 8:06:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/21/2011 5:25:27 AM, angel_friend wrote:
At 1/20/2011 12:22:03 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Yeah, I'll go with that. IF Jesus ever existed, It is pretty obvious that the bible doesn't paint an accurate picture of what Jesus was like.

Well if u add a mark question on Jesus existance is like u question the existance of all faiths: judaism, christianism, hinduism, islamism and so on. What prouve u have that Buddah or Shiva or Mohamed or Moise existed? What about manuscripts from Dead Sea? at list is sure this "legend" has at list more then 2000 years existance.
We have strong archaeological evidence, and historical narrations of his existence. There's no doubt that the beloved Prophet Muhammad ever existed; it is a historical fact that he did.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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1/21/2011 8:37:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/21/2011 12:15:42 AM, InquireTruth wrote:
At 1/20/2011 11:52:41 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 1/20/2011 10:46:05 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
The Gospels were written within the same generation as when Jesus lived on Earth. Not even close to enough time for it to be exagerated:

Want to know the earliest manuscript written about Jesus? The first was Mark, some 60 years after the fact. It's been 60 years since WWII. Was that right around the corner in relation to time? Absolutely not. Moreover, Mark NEVER met Jesus.

The gospels aren't our earliest sources... The earliest sources we have come in the form of creeds found in Paul's epistles some 3-7 years after Jesus' lifetime. Please do not feign knowledge that you do not posses.:

3-7 years? Hardly. The earliest manuscript attributed to Paul was 55 AD. Jesus supposedly started his ministry at 30, preached for 3 years, which means he died at 33 years old. Time was divided between BC (Before Christ) and AD (Annos Domini) which means he died in 33 AD. Do the math. That's 23 years.

http://www.religioustolerance.org...

So we have 23 years after his death, and Paul never met Jesus. That's not a very compelling case.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
popculturepooka
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1/21/2011 9:09:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/21/2011 8:37:26 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:

3-7 years? Hardly. The earliest manuscript attributed to Paul was 55 AD. Jesus supposedly started his ministry at 30, preached for 3 years, which means he died at 33 years old. Time was divided between BC (Before Christ) and AD (Annos Domini) which means he died in 33 AD. Do the math. That's 23 years.

http://www.religioustolerance.org...

So we have 23 years after his death, and Paul never met Jesus. That's not a very compelling case.

Dood, you're aware that religioustolerance.org isn't all that reliable of a source, right?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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1/21/2011 10:13:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 11:52:40 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
That is right, I do not live for my own desires and my personal self. I no longer Live but Christ lives in me.

Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?
Matthew 16:24-26

I love your post, you speak as someone who has been saved by grace through faith

Christ is also in me as I am in him, feeding from our vine [Jesus] as branches producing spiritual fruit pleasing to the Lord, and not by our own good works which are as Filthy rags. [Isa 64:6].
gavin.ogden
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1/21/2011 10:17:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/21/2011 10:13:15 AM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 1/20/2011 11:52:40 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
That is right, I do not live for my own desires and my personal self. I no longer Live but Christ lives in me.

Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?
Matthew 16:24-26

I love your post, you speak as someone who has been saved by grace through faith

Christ is also in me as I am in him, feeding from our vine [Jesus] as branches producing spiritual fruit pleasing to the Lord, and not by our own good works which are as Filthy rags. [Isa 64:6].

I actually pity both of you... going through life blind and enslaved by your own minds. Life must be pretty bad for you to just give up and just have "faith" that it will be better when you die. In other words, you are just waiting for death at this point. Sounds really $hitty...
Jarjar3000
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1/21/2011 10:23:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
To you maybe, that is your opinion, but to us we have been set free, free from sin, free from depression, free from losing hope. We KNOW there is a God, and we know we will be with him someday, We have the Peace that only Jesus can bring. :)
Ohh Lord How you love me, you change my heart and soul, renewing my mind into something I could never imagine, You make me strong when I am weak, you encourage me when I'm despaired, You stick by me when everyone deserts me, You are my Lord You are my God.

Charles: I'm not a Christian because I'm afraid of hell, I'm a Christian because I love Jesus.

Geolaureate: The Pope
He looks like a Sith lord, I don't trust him.

Charles0103: Just like my God, my faith won't change.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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1/21/2011 10:39:10 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/21/2011 10:23:30 AM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
To you maybe, that is your opinion, but to us we have been set free, free from sin, free from depression, free from losing hope. We KNOW there is a God, and we know we will be with him someday, We have the Peace that only Jesus can bring. :

Right, that's why there are Christians so depressed they can't even get out of bed. Depression is a chemical imbalance, apparently caused by your God. It isn't demon possession, sorry.

We have so much to be thankful for, Lord! All praise is due for Harlequin babies. Thank you, Jesus!!! Thank you for your tenderness and mercy!
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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1/21/2011 10:45:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 11:54:19 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 1/20/2011 11:40:05 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Just reading through all the topics around here. It's now being discussed in multiple topics, to why not keep it here?

If you read this Gospels, I think it is pretty obvious that Jesus was portrayed as a pacifist or at the very least a very non-violent person. I think it is absurd to claim otherwise, so I do not feel the need to defend my position.:

There's quite a bit of contradiction on Jesus' part. In the gospel he throws a hissy fit when he sees the moneychangers selling in the Temple of Solomon, and starts releasing doves and flipping tables over. In one gospel (Luke, I think) he whipped people out of the Temple, which is something he would be arrested for in today's zeitgeist.

Then there's the whole "sword" thing. In one instance he says, "Those who live by the sword, shall die by the sword," after Peter took a sword and chopped off a guy's left ear. Peter was protecting Jesus at the time.

But then in other verses he tells his apostles to go out and buy swords, and also says that upon his return, he's coming back with a sword. Obviously the "sword" is a metaphor for him coming back violently.

The point is, he contradicts himself throughout the bible. So we really can't make any good assumptions on whether he was violent or a pacifist. All we know is that he contradicted himself.

LOL you just failed so badly :D
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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1/21/2011 10:50:09 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
LOL you just failed so badly :

An explanation goes a long way. You fail for failing to mention how I fail.

FAIL.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
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1/21/2011 11:53:38 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/21/2011 8:37:26 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 1/21/2011 12:15:42 AM, InquireTruth wrote:
At 1/20/2011 11:52:41 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 1/20/2011 10:46:05 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
The Gospels were written within the same generation as when Jesus lived on Earth. Not even close to enough time for it to be exagerated:

Want to know the earliest manuscript written about Jesus? The first was Mark, some 60 years after the fact. It's been 60 years since WWII. Was that right around the corner in relation to time? Absolutely not. Moreover, Mark NEVER met Jesus.

The gospels aren't our earliest sources... The earliest sources we have come in the form of creeds found in Paul's epistles some 3-7 years after Jesus' lifetime. Please do not feign knowledge that you do not posses.:

3-7 years? Hardly. The earliest manuscript attributed to Paul was 55 AD. Jesus supposedly started his ministry at 30, preached for 3 years, which means he died at 33 years old. Time was divided between BC (Before Christ) and AD (Annos Domini) which means he died in 33 AD. Do the math. That's 23 years.

http://www.religioustolerance.org...

So we have 23 years after his death, and Paul never met Jesus. That's not a very compelling case.

Attribution of manuscript =/= dating of early creeds. This is what I mean by feigning knowledge. There are often multiple sources of varied dates within one manuscript.
tigg13
Posts: 302
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1/21/2011 12:15:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/20/2011 11:40:05 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Just reading through all the topics around here. It's now being discussed in multiple topics, to why not keep it here?

If you read this Gospels, I think it is pretty obvious that Jesus was portrayed as a pacifist or at the very least a very non-violent person. I think it is absurd to claim otherwise, so I do not feel the need to defend my position.

However, the rest of you can argue about it, and if someone makes a good point, I might chime in.

I think it should be obvious, based on the behavior of several of the Christians on this thread, that Jesus couldn't have been a pacifist. Why would these people constantly try to pick fights with others if their God promoted a message of peace?
PARADIGM_L0ST
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1/21/2011 12:22:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Attribution of manuscript =/= dating of early creeds. This is what I mean by feigning knowledge. There are often multiple sources of varied dates within one manuscript.:

So in other words you simply take all the data you want to believe and discard the rest that runs counter to your beliefs? My whole point is that there is little corroboration on the part of knowing how old the text is, who wrote it, and whether or not what's contained in it is factually accurate.

It's all guesswork, but scholars do their best with the limited evidence they have available.

How is any of that "feigning knowledge?" In order to know that I'm feigning knowledge it would require you to have knowledge on the subject. So engage me with more than baseless accusations, otherwise it looks like the shoe's on the other foot.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
gavin.ogden
Posts: 1,729
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1/21/2011 1:35:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/21/2011 10:23:30 AM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
To you maybe, that is your opinion, but to us we have been set free, free from sin, free from depression, free from losing hope. We KNOW there is a God, and we know we will be with him someday, We have the Peace that only Jesus can bring. :)

You KNOW there is a god? LIAR...