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Question for theists on God's Omniscience

cameron339
Posts: 73
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11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists? If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
B) He doesn't care
C) He is not Omniscient
D) He doesn't exist

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.
uncung
Posts: 3,468
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11/17/2016 12:54:56 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists? If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
B) He doesn't care
C) He is not Omniscient
D) He doesn't exist

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.

This an opened forum. Perhaps there are some viewers interesting in learning religion.
After all, God gives us a free will to choose the truth. God also provides the reward for defending His religion. We try to help the mankind to find the truth that they may save from eternal punishment in hell.
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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11/17/2016 1:10:16 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/17/2016 12:54:56 AM, uncung wrote:
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists? If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
B) He doesn't care
C) He is not Omniscient
D) He doesn't exist

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.

This an opened forum. Perhaps there are some viewers interesting in learning religion.
After all, God gives us a free will to choose the truth. God also provides the reward for defending His religion. We try to help the mankind to find the truth that they may save from eternal punishment in hell.

Eternal hell that he created. Nice guy you worship.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,872
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11/17/2016 1:36:25 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists?
Why do you waste time on paying attention to what other people waste their time on?
If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
this is circularity. I.e. You think God doesn't exist so God must not want you to know he exists because he doesn't exist to tell you he does
B) He doesn't care
You can't tell the future. "God isn't on my time line" isn't an argument
C) He is not Omniscient
Which you would have to know what it is to be omniscient to know this. Not simply know the definition but truly know what it is to be omniscient
D) He doesn't exist
Non sequitur.

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.
Atheists stop telling theists what they should or shouldn't do, its a free country.
cameron339
Posts: 73
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11/17/2016 3:11:32 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/17/2016 1:36:25 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists?
Why do you waste time on paying attention to what other people waste their time on?

I don't really care what people waste their time on. But if God wants us to know he exists, why can't he just reveal himself to us? Why do we have to rely upon God's self appointed guardians of "the truth". Billions of so called "God detectors" that won't give you any evidence of the so called God they are "detecting."

If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
this is circularity. I.e. You think God doesn't exist so God must not want you to know he exists because he doesn't exist to tell you he does

Not, not circular as I mentioned I don't know which option is correct. And it's not my job to figure it out. I mean after all if he is Omniscient, why does he create individuals he knows will become atheists. Doesn't make any sense if he wants us to develop a relationship with him.

B) He doesn't care
You can't tell the future. "God isn't on my time line" isn't an argument

So if it's just not my time yet, and God will reveal himself to me on his time, then I am perfectly justified in being an atheist then?
C) He is not Omniscient
Which you would have to know what it is to be omniscient to know this. Not simply know the definition but truly know what it is to be omniscient

Well, I don't think Omniscience is a trait that anyone can possess, including God as it is an incoherent concept. But in the context of what Christians believe it to be, it is all knowing. Therefore it logically follows that God would know my mind and my thoughts, and what it would take to convince me.

D) He doesn't exist
Non sequitur.

No, not a non sequitur when considering possible options. Either he exists or he doesnt.

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.
Atheists stop telling theists what they should or shouldn't do, its a free country.

You have the freedom to do believe whatever you want. You don't have the freedom to take actions on behalf of what you believe that can have a negative impact on the individuals around you. Your beliefs inform your actions and your actions have consequences.
cameron339
Posts: 73
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11/17/2016 3:23:37 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/17/2016 12:54:56 AM, uncung wrote:
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists? If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
B) He doesn't care
C) He is not Omniscient
D) He doesn't exist

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.

This an opened forum. Perhaps there are some viewers interesting in learning religion.
After all, God gives us a free will to choose the truth. God also provides the reward for defending His religion. We try to help the mankind to find the truth that they may save from eternal punishment in hell.

You don't have to choose the "truth." Truth is that which corresponds to reality. Do you have to "choose" to believe in Gravity or is it self evident? Faith ends where evidence begins.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,872
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11/17/2016 6:49:00 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/17/2016 3:11:32 AM, cameron339 wrote:
At 11/17/2016 1:36:25 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists?
Why do you waste time on paying attention to what other people waste their time on?

I don't really care what people waste their time on.
If you don't care what people masterstroke on then Why the inquiry in the first place?
But if God wants us to know he exists, why can't he just reveal himself to us? Why do we have to rely upon God's self appointed guardians of "the truth". Billions of so called "God detectors" that won't give you any evidence of the so called God they are "detecting."
How do you now God only relies on "god detectors" . This is another non sequitur.
If you don't care then why did you imply they shouldn't bother doing it?

If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
this is circularity. I.e. You think God doesn't exist so God must not want you to know he exists because he doesn't exist to tell you he does

Not, not circular as I mentioned I don't know which option is correct. And it's not my job to figure it out.
So you don't want any responsibility. Like a child, I don't see a problem with that at all.
I mean after all if he is Omniscient, why does he create individuals he knows will become atheists. Doesn't make any sense if he wants us to develop a relationship with him.
How do you know being an atheist isn't a relationship?
It makes perfect sense if you understand. If everyone knew there was a God,how many people would be on this site debating if there is one or not? I'm thinking no one. Hence the logical conclusion is by having those that don't know he exists and having those that believe he does and having those who knows he does, then the only conclusion is it's a necessary aspect about learning about God.
B) He doesn't care
You can't tell the future. "God isn't on my time line" isn't an argument

So if it's just not my time yet, and God will reveal himself to me on his time, then I am perfectly justified in being an atheist then?t
You don't have to justify things to anyone. We are all adults here. Children or dysfunctional adults justify themselves to other people or seek out approval for their justifications.
C) He is not Omniscient
Which you would have to know what it is to be omniscient to know this. Not simply know the definition but truly know what it is to be omniscient

Well, I don't think Omniscience is a trait that anyone can possess,
including God as it is an incoherent concept.
So "c" was just a prelude to more circular reasoning forehand demonstrate God can't be omniscient.
So God not being omniscient isn't a question to you its an impossibility which defeats the totality of your line of reasoning. I think you're the one wasting time.
The concept is coherent, just because it isn't to you doesnt prove anything.
But in the context of what Christians believe it to be, it is all knowing. Therefore it logically follows that God would know my mind and my thoughts, and what it would take to convince me.
So now we are back to you wondering when God will convince you. Ask God not people. Kind of ignorant asking people when or why God does things. I don't ask my sister why my next door neighbors son does things. People would have to fully understand what motivates another to be accurate. Why do you think other people are 100 percent accurate as to Why they think God does things?
D) He doesn't exist
Non sequitur.

No, not a non sequitur when considering possible options. Either he exists or he doesnt.
That's not what this conclusion is drawn from. It is concluded based on your preconditions.
Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.
Atheists stop telling theists what they should or shouldn't do, its a free country.

You have the freedom to do believe whatever you want. You don't have the freedom to take actions on behalf of what you believe that can have a negative impact on the individuals around you. Your beliefs inform your actions and your actions have consequences.
Nice moving the goalposts fallacy. Your first statement merely says to stop pretending to "speak for God" you've now decided to justify this as now including act on behalf of what they think God wants them to do. I'm assuming because I outed you as a hypocrite that you needed to modify the statement, fair enough, but it isn't lost on anyone that's exactly what you're doing.
Osmium
Posts: 78
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11/17/2016 7:51:05 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists? If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
B) He doesn't care
C) He is not Omniscient
D) He doesn't exist

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.

Can't argue with your points on omniscience, but I will say that many theists belong to the school of thought that it is part of their duty to God to "share" their faith and bring other people into that circle. Christians are instructed and encouraged to do so. Muslims also feel the same about bringing people to their faith. If you are addressing theists specific to this community, the answer is still the same. To counter you I would have to ask why you care whether they are trying to do God's job? They're just doing their thing.
Willows
Posts: 2,084
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11/17/2016 10:04:35 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/17/2016 12:54:56 AM, uncung wrote:
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists? If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
B) He doesn't care
C) He is not Omniscient
D) He doesn't exist

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.

This an opened forum. Perhaps there are some viewers interesting in learning religion.
After all, God gives us a free will to choose the truth. God also provides the reward for defending His religion. We try to help the mankind to find the truth that they may save from eternal punishment in hell.

And perhaps there are others in this open forum who discourage those who are interested in religion not to get sucked in by radical religious nuts.
Willows
Posts: 2,084
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11/17/2016 10:10:14 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/17/2016 1:36:25 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists?
Why do you waste time on paying attention to what other people waste their time on?
If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
this is circularity. I.e. You think God doesn't exist so God must not want you to know he exists because he doesn't exist to tell you he does
B) He doesn't care
You can't tell the future. "God isn't on my time line" isn't an argument
C) He is not Omniscient
Which you would have to know what it is to be omniscient to know this. Not simply know the definition but truly know what it is to be omniscient
D) He doesn't exist
Non sequitur.

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.
Atheists stop telling theists what they should or shouldn't do, its a free country.

That's right, it's a free country and atheists have a right to warn others of the utter tripe and misleading nonsense that theists actively try to force down the throats of the weak, the vulnerable and the gullible.
ethang5
Posts: 4,117
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11/17/2016 10:49:56 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:

Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists? If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists.

You assume that there is something which will convince you. Why? You assume that if there is something which will convince you, that thing would have a higher priority than any of the things which would be negated by convincing you. That is, God would do anything to convince you. Why?

There would be no doubt on my part.

Again with the illogical assumptions. Satan is convinced of Gods existence. What makes you assume that God's priority is to "convince" that He exists? Could He not have other and higher priorities? What is your being convinced of God's existence supposed to do for God?

Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:

A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
B) He doesn't care
C) He is not Omniscient
D) He doesn't exist

Hi Cam, are you sure you didn't leave out some options?

Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, He
E) May do it in the future
D) Doesn't want to violate my free will
F) Knows that nothing will convince me.

If you left these out deliberately, you were being deceptive. If you didn't think of them, your argument is poorly formed and needs a re-think.

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct.

Who's job is it? None-the-less, you should at least be aware of all the options.

The ball would be in God's court.

This would be untrue even if we did leave out some of the options.

Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.

Yes theists, this atheist came to a religion board and posted a thread addressed to theists so as to be left alone by theists.

Theists are so aggressive and pushy. Go back to your own board theis...... wait.
PureX
Posts: 1,533
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11/17/2016 3:55:48 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists? If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
B) He doesn't care
C) He is not Omniscient
D) He doesn't exist

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.

God's proposed omniscience would have no logical bearing on your beliefs. What you believe is your choice, whether God knows about it, or not.
cameron339
Posts: 73
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11/17/2016 6:21:13 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/17/2016 6:49:00 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 11/17/2016 3:11:32 AM, cameron339

I don't really care what people waste their time on.
If you don't care what people masterstroke on then Why the inquiry in the first place?

Because I actually care about the truth in whatever shape or form it comes in, unlike theists. Who just choice the myth that's most comfortable to them. And I like to debate.

How do you now God only relies on "god detectors" . This is another non sequitur.

I don't know whether God relies solely on "god detectors," but if someone comes up to you claiming they know God exists and then don't present you with any evidence, but instead a horseshit argument. Wouldn't you be a little disappointed?

If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
this is circularity. I.e. You think God doesn't exist so God must not want you to know he exists because he doesn't exist to tell you he does

Wow, that response was utter tripe. No, unlike theists I am intellectually honest and don't know whether a God exists or not. But I don't believe a God exists. There is a difference between belief and knowledge. But if he exists and he is the Christian God he may in fact not want me to know he exists. Why? Because in Thessalonians he tells us that he sends strong delusions to people. It's not my fault you believe in a God that's sends delusions to people. How do you know you're not of them?

How do you know being an atheist isn't a relationship?

A relationship with who?

It makes perfect sense if you understand. If everyone knew there was a God,how many people would be on this site debating if there is one or not? I'm thinking no one. Hence the logical conclusion is by having those that don't know he exists and having those that believe he does and having those who knows he does, then the only conclusion is it's a necessary aspect about learning about God.

So instead of God revealing himself to us all which would then end these countless stupid religious wars, bloodshed, pain and suffering, division of humanity as we would all believe in the same God then. Instead he prefers for us to be in a constant state of confusion and arguing amongst ourselves. What a swell guy!

B) He doesn't care
You can't tell the future. "God isn't on my time line" isn't an argument

So if it's just not my time yet, and God will reveal himself to me on his time, then I am perfectly justified in being an atheist then?t
You don't have to justify things to anyone. We are all adults here. Children or dysfunctional adults justify themselves to other people or seek out approval for their justifications.

So you don't have to justify the actions you take upon other people? You do realize those actions are preceded and informed by your beliefs.

C) He is not Omniscient
Which you would have to know what it is to be omniscient to know this.

You believe Omniscience is a coherent concept? Please explain? If God is Omniscient, meaning he knows the past, present, and future. Then the future has to be set from his perspective. Which means he can't change it. Which also means he is not all powerful. It's not my fault Christians have attributed a bunch of incoherent characteristics to their God.
He is the ultimate super hero, right? LOL!

But in the context of what Christians believe it to be, it is all knowing. Therefore it logically follows that God would know my mind and my thoughts, and what it would take to convince me.
So now we are back to you wondering when God will convince you. Ask God not people.

I did ask him, he never responded. Oh, that's right, you have to believe in him first, for him to be real. That makes a whole lot of sense. I just have to open my heart to Jesus, and he'll reveal himself to me right, LOL!

No, not a non sequitur when considering possible options. Either he exists or he doesnt.
That's not what this conclusion is drawn from. It is concluded based on your preconditions.

When you say "preconditions" are you referring to axioms, basal assumptions, properly basic beliefs, epistemology? If so, I am quite informed in this area. I don't see how under any epistemic framework you can arrive at God as being a necessary precondition for intelligence or knowledge. Please explain?
But please do not give me someone like Matt Slick or Sye Tennessee Bruggencate's TAG argument for God. This already has been thoroughly demolished. Plus, I hate those scummy, dishonest Christian apologists.

You have the freedom to do believe whatever you want. You don't have the freedom to take actions on behalf of what you believe that can have a negative impact on the individuals around you. Your beliefs inform your actions and your actions have consequences.
Nice moving the goalposts fallacy. Your first statement merely says to stop pretending to "speak for God" you've now decided to justify this as now including act on behalf of what they think God wants them to do. I'm assuming because I outed you as a hypocrite that you needed to modify the statement, fair enough, but it isn't lost on anyone that's exactly what you're doing.

You mean to tell me Christians don't believe that God "instructs" them on how to live their lives? Almost every Christian I know claims to know the mind of God and what he wants for them. How dishonest. Plus, you don't think people act on behalf of what they believe? If not, why are you following Christianity then, if you're just going to follow the dictates of your own conscience?
graceofgod
Posts: 5,104
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11/17/2016 6:32:18 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists? If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
B) He doesn't care
C) He is not Omniscient
D) He doesn't exist

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.

How do believers know that it is not something they say or do that brings someone to believe...
cameron339
Posts: 73
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11/17/2016 6:36:54 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
God's proposed omniscience would have no logical bearing on your beliefs. What you believe is your choice, whether God knows about it, or not.

Sure it does. You mean to tell me that God doesn't want us to believe in him? If so, through his Omniscience he should be trying to convince us that he exists, if he wants us to have a relationship with him.
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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11/17/2016 6:38:34 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/17/2016 10:49:56 AM, ethang5 wrote:
Again with the illogical assumptions. Satan is convinced of Gods existence.
hahahahaha
says who?
PureX
Posts: 1,533
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11/17/2016 6:42:04 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/17/2016 6:36:54 PM, cameron339 wrote:
God's proposed omniscience would have no logical bearing on your beliefs. What you believe is your choice, whether God knows about it, or not.

Sure it does. You mean to tell me that God doesn't want us to believe in him? If so, through his Omniscience he should be trying to convince us that he exists, if he wants us to have a relationship with him.

Are you confusing "omniscience" with omnipotence? Because I can't think of any reason why God being "all knowing" would have anything to do with God wanting us to know or believe anything in particular. Then again, I'm not sure what God's presumed omnipotence would have to do with it, either.
cameron339
Posts: 73
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11/17/2016 6:58:36 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/17/2016 7:51:05 AM, Osmium wrote:
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists? If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
B) He doesn't care
C) He is not Omniscient
D) He doesn't exist

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.

Can't argue with your points on omniscience, but I will say that many theists belong to the school of thought that it is part of their duty to God to "share" their faith and bring other people into that circle. Christians are instructed and encouraged to do so. Muslims also feel the same about bringing people to their faith. If you are addressing theists specific to this community, the answer is still the same. To counter you I would have to ask why you care whether they are trying to do God's job? They're just doing their thing.

That's the problem, "they're just doing their thing." You don't find it dishonest that fallible human beings are pretending to speak on God's behalf, as if they know the mind of God intimately. Incredibly dishonest. Why can't God speak to me directly? Why does he have to go through his middle men (Christians) Does my daughter need to go through a middle man to speak to her father?
12_13
Posts: 1,365
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11/17/2016 9:01:11 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists? If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists,

The point is not to make you to believe, but to help you to understand so that you could become righteous. :)

If anyone listens to my sayings, and doesn't believe, I don't judge him. For I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He who rejects me, and doesn't receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke, the same will judge him in the last day.

John 12:47-48
Osmium
Posts: 78
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11/17/2016 10:05:34 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/17/2016 6:58:36 PM, cameron339 wrote:
At 11/17/2016 7:51:05 AM, Osmium wrote:
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists? If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
B) He doesn't care
C) He is not Omniscient
D) He doesn't exist

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.

Can't argue with your points on omniscience, but I will say that many theists belong to the school of thought that it is part of their duty to God to "share" their faith and bring other people into that circle. Christians are instructed and encouraged to do so. Muslims also feel the same about bringing people to their faith. If you are addressing theists specific to this community, the answer is still the same. To counter you I would have to ask why you care whether they are trying to do God's job? They're just doing their thing.

That's the problem, "they're just doing their thing." You don't find it dishonest that fallible human beings are pretending to speak on God's behalf, as if they know the mind of God intimately. Incredibly dishonest. Why can't God speak to me directly? Why does he have to go through his middle men (Christians) Does my daughter need to go through a middle man to speak to her father?

Why can't God talk to you? Hell if I know. I get the same cold shoulder. Christians are taught to believe that there is a middle man. Preachers, priests, witnesses, even Jesus. In fact I think he started the whole middle man thing.
cameron339
Posts: 73
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11/17/2016 11:02:56 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
The point is not to make you to believe, but to help you to understand so that you could become righteous. :)

So if I have become more righteous since leaving Christianity and becoming an atheist, did I get the message correct? LOL!
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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11/17/2016 11:09:01 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/17/2016 12:54:56 AM, uncung wrote:
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists? If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
B) He doesn't care
C) He is not Omniscient
D) He doesn't exist

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.

This an opened forum. Perhaps there are some viewers interesting in learning religion.
After all, God gives us a free will to choose the truth. God also provides the reward for defending His religion. We try to help the mankind to find the truth that they may save from eternal punishment in hell.

I don't see anyone here seeking religious enlightenment. All the religious people here are defending their own beliefs because they can't reconcile them with reality.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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11/17/2016 11:26:50 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists? If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
B) He doesn't care
C) He is not Omniscient
D) He doesn't exist

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.

What if you are "a" God/immortal consciousness and you chose to come here? And, (A) applies in order for you to have an experience here (B) applies bc you don't care (C) applies bc you are not omniscient (D) doesn't and does apply bc you exist, just haven't realized your incorporeal self yet. Hmmm. Although this doesn't prove a god, it questions my belief that there is an incorporeal realm / platform after this.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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11/17/2016 11:29:20 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/17/2016 7:51:05 AM, Osmium wrote:
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists? If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
B) He doesn't care
C) He is not Omniscient
D) He doesn't exist

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.

Can't argue with your points on omniscience, but I will say that many theists belong to the school of thought that it is part of their duty to God to "share" their faith and bring other people into that circle. Christians are instructed and encouraged to do so. Muslims also feel the same about bringing people to their faith. If you are addressing theists specific to this community, the answer is still the same. To counter you I would have to ask why you care whether they are trying to do God's job? They're just doing their thing.

Because they are doing it with a label. This label is being used by the "not-so-kindhearted" and the good people are cheering it on... masters of misinformation and hiding the true darkness by saying of "Wolf behind sheep's clothing."
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,016
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11/17/2016 11:35:35 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists? If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
B) He doesn't care
C) He is not Omniscient
D) He doesn't exist

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.

Or.... He sees free will as a good thing, so He doesn't force you to follow Him
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
cameron339
Posts: 73
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11/18/2016 12:30:59 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/17/2016 11:35:35 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists? If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
B) He doesn't care
C) He is not Omniscient
D) He doesn't exist

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.


Or.... He sees free will as a good thing, so He doesn't force you to follow Him

Well if he isn't concerned about convincing me that he exists. Then he shouldn't be concerned about sending me to hell either. Not that I would want to go to the "Christian heaven" as it sounds like just as much of an abomination at the "Christians hell."
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,016
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11/18/2016 2:18:04 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/18/2016 12:30:59 AM, cameron339 wrote:
At 11/17/2016 11:35:35 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists? If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
B) He doesn't care
C) He is not Omniscient
D) He doesn't exist

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.


Or.... He sees free will as a good thing, so He doesn't force you to follow Him

Well if he isn't concerned about convincing me that he exists. Then he shouldn't be concerned about sending me to hell either. Not that I would want to go to the "Christian heaven" as it sounds like just as much of an abomination at the "Christians hell."

He doesn't send people to Hell. They send themselves. Remember the whole free will thing?
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,872
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11/18/2016 7:28:04 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/17/2016 10:10:14 AM, Willows wrote:
At 11/17/2016 1:36:25 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists?
Why do you waste time on paying attention to what other people waste their time on?
If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
this is circularity. I.e. You think God doesn't exist so God must not want you to know he exists because he doesn't exist to tell you he does
B) He doesn't care
You can't tell the future. "God isn't on my time line" isn't an argument
C) He is not Omniscient
Which you would have to know what it is to be omniscient to know this. Not simply know the definition but truly know what it is to be omniscient
D) He doesn't exist
Non sequitur.

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.
Atheists stop telling theists what they should or shouldn't do, its a free country.

That's right, it's a free country and atheists have a right to warn others of the utter tripe and misleading nonsense that theists actively try to force down the throats of the weak, the vulnerable and the gullible.
So you're obviously beat. And atheists aren't as gullible as you were this whole time, I just made you think you were.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,240
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11/18/2016 12:14:20 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/18/2016 2:18:04 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 11/18/2016 12:30:59 AM, cameron339 wrote:
At 11/17/2016 11:35:35 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists? If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
B) He doesn't care
C) He is not Omniscient
D) He doesn't exist

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.


Or.... He sees free will as a good thing, so He doesn't force you to follow Him

Well if he isn't concerned about convincing me that he exists. Then he shouldn't be concerned about sending me to hell either. Not that I would want to go to the "Christian heaven" as it sounds like just as much of an abomination at the "Christians hell."

He doesn't send people to Hell. They send themselves. Remember the whole free will thing?

Then they should be "free" to leave hell at any time.

Free will, right?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,016
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11/18/2016 12:44:03 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/18/2016 12:14:20 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/18/2016 2:18:04 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 11/18/2016 12:30:59 AM, cameron339 wrote:
At 11/17/2016 11:35:35 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 11/16/2016 7:24:13 PM, cameron339 wrote:
Theists, if you believe your God to be Omniscient, why do you waste time trying to convince atheists that he exists? If he is Omniscient, he would know exactly what it would take to convince me that he exists. There would be no doubt on my part. Since God hasn't convinced me yet that he exists, he either:
A) Doesn't want me to know that he exists (which I can't do anything about that.)
B) He doesn't care
C) He is not Omniscient
D) He doesn't exist

Either way, it's not my job to figure out which one of these options is correct. The ball would be in God's court. Theists, stop pretending to speak on your God's behalf and let him do his damn job if you believe he is Omniscient.


Or.... He sees free will as a good thing, so He doesn't force you to follow Him

Well if he isn't concerned about convincing me that he exists. Then he shouldn't be concerned about sending me to hell either. Not that I would want to go to the "Christian heaven" as it sounds like just as much of an abomination at the "Christians hell."

He doesn't send people to Hell. They send themselves. Remember the whole free will thing?


Then they should be "free" to leave hell at any time.

Free will, right?

Our wills become fixed at death, so no.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax