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Not Believing in God Means a Low IQ

Cubswin
Posts: 41
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11/19/2016 2:06:24 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
It's quite obvious that the intelligence level of an individual can be directly correlated to their belief or non belief in a Creator. Anyone who believes in God is obviously intelligent because of all the knowledge we now possess in this world proving a Creator exists...,whereas the non believer chooses to live in ignorance or is incapable of understanding knowledge

Then there is the person who believes, but is angry at being born and therefore being mortal, and knows that one day they will die so they reject God thus pretending to be ignorant = many fall into this category and are called Trolls but with a high IQ

I know God exists because I know the Universe could not make itself,.. it needs causality,... it's physical and made up of matter. The Universe is essentially a huge holo-deck like in Star Trek..all created by an entity outside time and space

Another dimension exists obviously and a Creator existing in another dimension without time and space created what we all see here. This Creator has always existed as time and space has no meaning in that dimension. Time and Space was created.... here

It's obvious to me the human body was created as our human DNA is so complex...much more complex than Microsoft code! Bill Gates has even said that. Human DNA was engineered! ... nobody even debates that anymore,...thus meaning a Creator!

Last I looked... Microsoft Windows didn't accidentally make itself! It didn't accidentally evolve from the soup of silicon! Yet the evolutionists will say to you... yes it is possible for Microsoft Windows to accidentally make itself from silicon!!! ROFL hahahaha

Our human brain is unlike anything else on the planet. How come there isn't a multitude of different human beings running around like in the animal kingdom. There is only one kind of human here. Also... where is the missing link? The evolutionists cannot produce it

Nature...take a long look at the mysterious things nature does daily,.. some creatures with no arms yet they somehow know and are able to make nests! Ever watch a bird make a beautifully sculpted round nest from materials gathered on the ground? How does it know .... nobody taught it anything! Birds do not toil yet they are fed

Shroud of Turin... we still cannot explain how that image got on there... even today with all our knowledge! Radiocarbon dating was skewed as they tested material that was later sewn in from a fire many years ago or the material was contaminated from that fire

It was only after the invention of Photography that we could see an actual image in great detail .... from the Negative! You can barely make out an image with the naked eye! The image is three dimensional! No ink, no paint, no pencil....we know that image was not made with any man made markings! How did it get there!?

Burst of energy.... that is quite obvious. Every atom of that body instantly was moved out of this dimension and left an imprint on that cloth!

How could the first human baby had survived on its own if we evolved! A human baby is totally helpless! Our belly buttons.... where did that come from... we all have one! Who was the first baby without a belly button!!!! hahahaha Bingo!.. an adult was created first!

Yea it's quite obvious to me that anyone who does not believe in God has a very low IQ or is trolling and simply angry at being born mortal. Let's face it... we are weak, frail and without basic things like oxygen and food and water... we will perish!

Humanity did not make oxygen, food and water.. it was already here!

The intellect we were given.. this gift... it gives you choice... free will. Some spend their entire lives denying God yet they know deep down a Creator exists or they would not be contemplating it. All thought would instead by instinctive like an animal

We are self aware! We are human! We were engineered! Thus a Creator!
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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11/19/2016 3:05:17 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 2:06:24 AM, Cubswin wrote:


For someone who claims to be so smart you didn't quote and scientific sources on the matter. Is it because you know you're wrong? [http://m.huffpost.com...]
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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11/19/2016 3:37:14 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 3:05:17 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/19/2016 2:06:24 AM, Cubswin wrote:


For someone who claims to be so smart you didn't quote and scientific sources on the matter. Is it because you know you're wrong? [http://m.huffpost.com...]

Huff Post isn't a credible source. They gave Hillary a 98% chance of winning the election
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,147
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11/19/2016 3:45:51 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
Intelligence has nothing to do with belief. Belief is not linked directly to rationality.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,147
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11/19/2016 3:47:36 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 3:37:14 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/19/2016 3:05:17 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/19/2016 2:06:24 AM, Cubswin wrote:


For someone who claims to be so smart you didn't quote and scientific sources on the matter. Is it because you know you're wrong? [http://m.huffpost.com...]

Huff Post isn't a credible source. They gave Hillary a 98% chance of winning the election

They put out some good stuff here and there. You certainly can't blindly trust them without verifying the writer though.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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11/19/2016 3:50:47 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 3:37:14 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/19/2016 3:05:17 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/19/2016 2:06:24 AM, Cubswin wrote:


For someone who claims to be so smart you didn't quote and scientific sources on the matter. Is it because you know you're wrong? [http://m.huffpost.com...]

Huff Post isn't a credible source. They gave Hillary a 98% chance of winning the election

Oh ok I'll just take 2 seconds link the study that huff post was talking about and make the same exact point. http://psr.sagepub.com...

Also saying they were wrong about Trump isn't an argument fr anything else. Being wrong about one thing doesn't mean they're wrong about everything else.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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11/19/2016 3:56:26 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 3:50:47 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/19/2016 3:37:14 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/19/2016 3:05:17 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/19/2016 2:06:24 AM, Cubswin wrote:


For someone who claims to be so smart you didn't quote and scientific sources on the matter. Is it because you know you're wrong? [http://m.huffpost.com...]

Huff Post isn't a credible source. They gave Hillary a 98% chance of winning the election

Oh ok I'll just take 2 seconds link the study that huff post was talking about and make the same exact point. http://psr.sagepub.com...

Also saying they were wrong about Trump isn't an argument fr anything else. Being wrong about one thing doesn't mean they're wrong about everything else.

It's just not a credible, reliable source. Wikipedia or even blatantly biased sources (like huff post) can be OK sources sometimes if there's a reference for the source material.
rileswilder
Posts: 5
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11/19/2016 5:22:24 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 2:06:24 AM, Cubswin wrote:
It's quite obvious that the intelligence level of an individual can be directly correlated to their belief or non belief in a Creator. Anyone who believes in God is obviously intelligent because of all the knowledge we now possess in this world proving a Creator exists...,whereas the non believer chooses to live in ignorance or is incapable of understanding knowledge

Then there is the person who believes, but is angry at being born and therefore being mortal, and knows that one day they will die so they reject God thus pretending to be ignorant = many fall into this category and are called Trolls but with a high IQ

I know God exists because I know the Universe could not make itself,.. it needs causality,... it's physical and made up of matter. The Universe is essentially a huge holo-deck like in Star Trek..all created by an entity outside time and space

Another dimension exists obviously and a Creator existing in another dimension without time and space created what we all see here. This Creator has always existed as time and space has no meaning in that dimension. Time and Space was created.... here

It's obvious to me the human body was created as our human DNA is so complex...much more complex than Microsoft code! Bill Gates has even said that. Human DNA was engineered! ... nobody even debates that anymore,...thus meaning a Creator!

Last I looked... Microsoft Windows didn't accidentally make itself! It didn't accidentally evolve from the soup of silicon! Yet the evolutionists will say to you... yes it is possible for Microsoft Windows to accidentally make itself from silicon!!! ROFL hahahaha

Our human brain is unlike anything else on the planet. How come there isn't a multitude of different human beings running around like in the animal kingdom. There is only one kind of human here. Also... where is the missing link? The evolutionists cannot produce it

Nature...take a long look at the mysterious things nature does daily,.. some creatures with no arms yet they somehow know and are able to make nests! Ever watch a bird make a beautifully sculpted round nest from materials gathered on the ground? How does it know .... nobody taught it anything! Birds do not toil yet they are fed

Shroud of Turin... we still cannot explain how that image got on there... even today with all our knowledge! Radiocarbon dating was skewed as they tested material that was later sewn in from a fire many years ago or the material was contaminated from that fire

It was only after the invention of Photography that we could see an actual image in great detail .... from the Negative! You can barely make out an image with the naked eye! The image is three dimensional! No ink, no paint, no pencil....we know that image was not made with any man made markings! How did it get there!?

Burst of energy.... that is quite obvious. Every atom of that body instantly was moved out of this dimension and left an imprint on that cloth!

How could the first human baby had survived on its own if we evolved! A human baby is totally helpless! Our belly buttons.... where did that come from... we all have one! Who was the first baby without a belly button!!!! hahahaha Bingo!.. an adult was created first!

Yea it's quite obvious to me that anyone who does not believe in God has a very low IQ or is trolling and simply angry at being born mortal. Let's face it... we are weak, frail and without basic things like oxygen and food and water... we will perish!

Humanity did not make oxygen, food and water.. it was already here!

The intellect we were given.. this gift... it gives you choice... free will. Some spend their entire lives denying God yet they know deep down a Creator exists or they would not be contemplating it. All thought would instead by instinctive like an animal

We are self aware! We are human! We were engineered! Thus a Creator!

Somebody slap me if I'm wrong, but I believe an IQ doesn't work the way you're using it. It's just a measurement of a conceptualized attribute that often isn't as reliable or clear cut as we make it out to be. Accepting or not accepting a given idea (eg, there is a personified capital C Creator) I don't think is a function of intelligence; the measure comes in more when we talk about how one arrives at accepting or not accepting the idea. If you can weigh evidence, suspend your pre-conceived notions, value truth over what you just want to be true, those things generally help you to arrive at better conclusions and, I suppose arguably, make you a more intelligent person.

One rule of thumb I have is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You're obviously very compelled by evidence like the Shroud and the complexity of the universe and the human body. A couple of fallacies utilized in some of your statements though - the fallacy of irreducible complexity (just because DNA is complicated doesn't mean it can't be broken down into simpler parts that evolved little by little over time for which there is ample evidence), the assumption that just because we don't have all the answers means that the much more extraordinary one is the right answer, false equivalency (although some similarities can be pointed to between life and computer code, life is made up of organic material that naturally self-corrects, so to speak, by virtue that if it doesn't it dies, while computer code is not organic material and was written in a very short period of time, so of course it's silly to say Microsoft sprang into existence). You're very quick to shut down the unbelievable idea that life evolved or just came about, but are you conceptualizing God in the same way? Where did God come from? How come he/she/they is exempt from this rule you've set up such that no amount of evidence can overcome it for anything else?

There's a lot we don't know about the universe, but there are a thousand alternative explanations that make just as much sense as the God idea. Like, an actual Holo-deck outside time and space creating us. Or a second layer of reality churning out computer code that makes up us. It follows the same general rule that some outside entity manipulates the matter of our universe to "engineer" the ordered elements. Why should we accept one explanation over another?
Willows
Posts: 2,068
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11/19/2016 9:47:56 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 2:06:24 AM, Cubswin wrote:
It's quite obvious that the intelligence level of an individual can be directly correlated to their belief or non belief in a Creator. Anyone who believes in God is obviously intelligent because of all the knowledge we now possess in this world proving a Creator exists...,whereas the non believer chooses to live in ignorance or is incapable of understanding knowledge

Then there is the person who believes, but is angry at being born and therefore being mortal, and knows that one day they will die so they reject God thus pretending to be ignorant = many fall into this category and are called Trolls but with a high IQ

I know God exists because I know the Universe could not make itself,.. it needs causality,... it's physical and made up of matter. The Universe is essentially a huge holo-deck like in Star Trek..all created by an entity outside time and space

Another dimension exists obviously and a Creator existing in another dimension without time and space created what we all see here. This Creator has always existed as time and space has no meaning in that dimension. Time and Space was created.... here

It's obvious to me the human body was created as our human DNA is so complex...much more complex than Microsoft code! Bill Gates has even said that. Human DNA was engineered! ... nobody even debates that anymore,...thus meaning a Creator!

Last I looked... Microsoft Windows didn't accidentally make itself! It didn't accidentally evolve from the soup of silicon! Yet the evolutionists will say to you... yes it is possible for Microsoft Windows to accidentally make itself from silicon!!! ROFL hahahaha

Our human brain is unlike anything else on the planet. How come there isn't a multitude of different human beings running around like in the animal kingdom. There is only one kind of human here. Also... where is the missing link? The evolutionists cannot produce it

Nature...take a long look at the mysterious things nature does daily,.. some creatures with no arms yet they somehow know and are able to make nests! Ever watch a bird make a beautifully sculpted round nest from materials gathered on the ground? How does it know .... nobody taught it anything! Birds do not toil yet they are fed

Shroud of Turin... we still cannot explain how that image got on there... even today with all our knowledge! Radiocarbon dating was skewed as they tested material that was later sewn in from a fire many years ago or the material was contaminated from that fire

It was only after the invention of Photography that we could see an actual image in great detail .... from the Negative! You can barely make out an image with the naked eye! The image is three dimensional! No ink, no paint, no pencil....we know that image was not made with any man made markings! How did it get there!?

Burst of energy.... that is quite obvious. Every atom of that body instantly was moved out of this dimension and left an imprint on that cloth!

How could the first human baby had survived on its own if we evolved! A human baby is totally helpless! Our belly buttons.... where did that come from... we all have one! Who was the first baby without a belly button!!!! hahahaha Bingo!.. an adult was created first!

Yea it's quite obvious to me that anyone who does not believe in God has a very low IQ or is trolling and simply angry at being born mortal. Let's face it... we are weak, frail and without basic things like oxygen and food and water... we will perish!

Humanity did not make oxygen, food and water.. it was already here!

The intellect we were given.. this gift... it gives you choice... free will. Some spend their entire lives denying God yet they know deep down a Creator exists or they would not be contemplating it. All thought would instead by instinctive like an animal

We are self aware! We are human! We were engineered! Thus a Creator!

You may feel smug after writing such a long screed when one sentence would have covered it. You obviously have not done much, if any research as you have made many technical and logic mistakes and you have well and truly tripped yourself up over the topic title.
Did you just come down in the last shower or what?
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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11/19/2016 10:04:30 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 3:56:26 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/19/2016 3:50:47 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/19/2016 3:37:14 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/19/2016 3:05:17 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/19/2016 2:06:24 AM, Cubswin wrote:


For someone who claims to be so smart you didn't quote and scientific sources on the matter. Is it because you know you're wrong? [http://m.huffpost.com...]

Huff Post isn't a credible source. They gave Hillary a 98% chance of winning the election

Oh ok I'll just take 2 seconds link the study that huff post was talking about and make the same exact point. http://psr.sagepub.com...

Also saying they were wrong about Trump isn't an argument fr anything else. Being wrong about one thing doesn't mean they're wrong about everything else.

It's just not a credible, reliable source. Wikipedia or even blatantly biased sources (like huff post) can be OK sources sometimes if there's a reference for the source material.
Can't be any worse than the bible or quran.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,238
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11/19/2016 12:08:08 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 3:37:14 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/19/2016 3:05:17 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/19/2016 2:06:24 AM, Cubswin wrote:


For someone who claims to be so smart you didn't quote and scientific sources on the matter. Is it because you know you're wrong? [http://m.huffpost.com...]

Huff Post isn't a credible source. They gave Hillary a 98% chance of winning the election

And such a probability was based on polls conducted...

Polls which put Hillary ahead of Clinton.

Check the popular vote. Hillary is ahead of Clinton.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Fly
Posts: 2,047
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11/19/2016 1:55:08 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 2:06:24 AM, Cubswin wrote:
It's quite obvious that the intelligence level of an individual can be directly correlated to their belief or non belief in a Creator. Anyone who believes in God is obviously intelligent because of all the knowledge we now possess in this world proving a Creator exists...,whereas the non believer chooses to live in ignorance or is incapable of understanding knowledge

Then there is the person who believes, but is angry at being born and therefore being mortal, and knows that one day they will die so they reject God thus pretending to be ignorant = many fall into this category and are called Trolls but with a high IQ

I know God exists because I know the Universe could not make itself,.. it needs causality,... it's physical and made up of matter. The Universe is essentially a huge holo-deck like in Star Trek..all created by an entity outside time and space

Another dimension exists obviously and a Creator existing in another dimension without time and space created what we all see here. This Creator has always existed as time and space has no meaning in that dimension. Time and Space was created.... here

It's obvious to me the human body was created as our human DNA is so complex...much more complex than Microsoft code! Bill Gates has even said that. Human DNA was engineered! ... nobody even debates that anymore,...thus meaning a Creator!

Last I looked... Microsoft Windows didn't accidentally make itself! It didn't accidentally evolve from the soup of silicon! Yet the evolutionists will say to you... yes it is possible for Microsoft Windows to accidentally make itself from silicon!!! ROFL hahahaha

Our human brain is unlike anything else on the planet. How come there isn't a multitude of different human beings running around like in the animal kingdom. There is only one kind of human here. Also... where is the missing link? The evolutionists cannot produce it

Nature...take a long look at the mysterious things nature does daily,.. some creatures with no arms yet they somehow know and are able to make nests! Ever watch a bird make a beautifully sculpted round nest from materials gathered on the ground? How does it know .... nobody taught it anything! Birds do not toil yet they are fed

Shroud of Turin... we still cannot explain how that image got on there... even today with all our knowledge! Radiocarbon dating was skewed as they tested material that was later sewn in from a fire many years ago or the material was contaminated from that fire

It was only after the invention of Photography that we could see an actual image in great detail .... from the Negative! You can barely make out an image with the naked eye! The image is three dimensional! No ink, no paint, no pencil....we know that image was not made with any man made markings! How did it get there!?

Burst of energy.... that is quite obvious. Every atom of that body instantly was moved out of this dimension and left an imprint on that cloth!

How could the first human baby had survived on its own if we evolved! A human baby is totally helpless! Our belly buttons.... where did that come from... we all have one! Who was the first baby without a belly button!!!! hahahaha Bingo!.. an adult was created first!

Yea it's quite obvious to me that anyone who does not believe in God has a very low IQ or is trolling and simply angry at being born mortal. Let's face it... we are weak, frail and without basic things like oxygen and food and water... we will perish!

Humanity did not make oxygen, food and water.. it was already here!

The intellect we were given.. this gift... it gives you choice... free will. Some spend their entire lives denying God yet they know deep down a Creator exists or they would not be contemplating it. All thought would instead by instinctive like an animal

We are self aware! We are human! We were engineered! Thus a Creator!

Go, Cubs, GO!!
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,373
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11/19/2016 2:17:32 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 10:24:42 AM, KwLm wrote:
All those claims, no facts to back any of it up, another theist with low IQ it seems.

For a guy who claims to have a high IQ that posted a link that says freemasonry and atheism is not compatible, exactly how does that prove Freemasons can be atheists? I'm just trying to jump inside your mind that thinks it knows something about freemasonry. What is freemasonry? Are you a Freemason?
missmedic
Posts: 390
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11/19/2016 2:20:30 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 2:06:24 AM, Cubswin wrote:
It's quite obvious that the intelligence level of an individual can be directly correlated to their belief or non belief in a Creator. Anyone who believes in God is obviously intelligent because of all the knowledge we now possess in this world proving a Creator exists...,whereas the non believer chooses to live in ignorance or is incapable of understanding knowledge
We are self aware! We are human! We were engineered! Thus a Creator!

The opposite is true, you do not use or need knowledge, truth or evidence for gods.
The only thing needed for gods to exist is belief.
We only have to look at the history of gods to know this, as all gods become myth when belief is suspended.
"63 studies showed a significant negative association between intelligence and religiosity."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
http://psr.sagepub.com...

This explains why................your too dumb to know your dumb.
http://psycnet.apa.org...
http://www.dailykos.com...
Artur
Posts: 725
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11/19/2016 2:25:00 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 2:06:24 AM, Cubswin wrote:
It's quite obvious that the intelligence level of an individual can be directly correlated to their belief or non belief in a Creator. Anyone who believes in God is obviously intelligent because of all the knowledge we now possess in this world proving a Creator exists...,whereas the non believer chooses to live in ignorance or is incapable of understanding knowledge

Then there is the person who believes, but is angry at being born and therefore being mortal, and knows that one day they will die so they reject God thus pretending to be ignorant = many fall into this category and are called Trolls but with a high IQ

I know God exists because I know the Universe could not make itself,.. it needs causality,... it's physical and made up of matter. The Universe is essentially a huge holo-deck like in Star Trek..all created by an entity outside time and space

Another dimension exists obviously and a Creator existing in another dimension without time and space created what we all see here. This Creator has always existed as time and space has no meaning in that dimension. Time and Space was created.... here

It's obvious to me the human body was created as our human DNA is so complex...much more complex than Microsoft code! Bill Gates has even said that. Human DNA was engineered! ... nobody even debates that anymore,...thus meaning a Creator!

Last I looked... Microsoft Windows didn't accidentally make itself! It didn't accidentally evolve from the soup of silicon! Yet the evolutionists will say to you... yes it is possible for Microsoft Windows to accidentally make itself from silicon!!! ROFL hahahaha

Our human brain is unlike anything else on the planet. How come there isn't a multitude of different human beings running around like in the animal kingdom. There is only one kind of human here. Also... where is the missing link? The evolutionists cannot produce it

Nature...take a long look at the mysterious things nature does daily,.. some creatures with no arms yet they somehow know and are able to make nests! Ever watch a bird make a beautifully sculpted round nest from materials gathered on the ground? How does it know .... nobody taught it anything! Birds do not toil yet they are fed

Shroud of Turin... we still cannot explain how that image got on there... even today with all our knowledge! Radiocarbon dating was skewed as they tested material that was later sewn in from a fire many years ago or the material was contaminated from that fire

It was only after the invention of Photography that we could see an actual image in great detail .... from the Negative! You can barely make out an image with the naked eye! The image is three dimensional! No ink, no paint, no pencil....we know that image was not made with any man made markings! How did it get there!?

Burst of energy.... that is quite obvious. Every atom of that body instantly was moved out of this dimension and left an imprint on that cloth!

How could the first human baby had survived on its own if we evolved! A human baby is totally helpless! Our belly buttons.... where did that come from... we all have one! Who was the first baby without a belly button!!!! hahahaha Bingo!.. an adult was created first!

Yea it's quite obvious to me that anyone who does not believe in God has a very low IQ or is trolling and simply angry at being born mortal. Let's face it... we are weak, frail and without basic things like oxygen and food and water... we will perish!

Humanity did not make oxygen, food and water.. it was already here!

The intellect we were given.. this gift... it gives you choice... free will. Some spend their entire lives denying God yet they know deep down a Creator exists or they would not be contemplating it. All thought would instead by instinctive like an animal

We are self aware! We are human! We were engineered! Thus a Creator!

good arguements for Trelves.
Trelves are race that are eternal, enourmously powerfull, enourmously intelligent, enourmously skillfull.

They have created the universe and still operate it. Anyone who believes in god is an owner of low IQ because we, universe, human DNA all show that Trelves have created us.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,373
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11/19/2016 2:26:03 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 2:20:30 PM, missmedic wrote:
At 11/19/2016 2:06:24 AM, Cubswin wrote:
It's quite obvious that the intelligence level of an individual can be directly correlated to their belief or non belief in a Creator. Anyone who believes in God is obviously intelligent because of all the knowledge we now possess in this world proving a Creator exists...,whereas the non believer chooses to live in ignorance or is incapable of understanding knowledge
We are self aware! We are human! We were engineered! Thus a Creator!

The opposite is true, you do not use or need knowledge, truth or evidence for gods.
The only thing needed for gods to exist is belief.
We only have to look at the history of gods to know this, as all gods become myth when belief is suspended.
"63 studies showed a significant negative association between intelligence and religiosity."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
http://psr.sagepub.com...

This explains why................your too dumb to know your dumb.
http://psycnet.apa.org...
http://www.dailykos.com...

If you really want to prove that atheists have higher IQ's, it would help if you could tighten up on that sloppy grammar used to insult us. Because I'm not feeling it, pumpkin.
Cubswin
Posts: 41
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11/19/2016 4:54:52 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
Nobody debates anymore the Universe was created.... we all agree with that. Big Bang blah blah blah... Universe is physical therefore it needs causality..blah blah blah.. everyone is in agreement on that. Ok so,...right...so it's either :

A. a Creator always existed outside this dimension.. some dimension with no time or space. No beginning or end

B. a Creator was created

(A) is the only answer because if you accept (B)... you will ask to infinity.. "what came before, and what came before that".. so we know that doesn't work

(A) is the only answer = Always Existed....and consequently..that was written down a few thousand years ago in a book!

To understand God or this Creator is to understand and accept that another Dimension exists... that is quite clear. A dimension with no time or space

I've always accepted God through Faith,..but as information and knowledge has progressed, the concept of a Creator is being proven! It's true... knowledge is the key,.. as time goes by we humans get smarter ,..more knowledgeable

We are currently at a point in human history where it is impossible to deny that a Creator exists,... yet people will still do that for personal reasons and it just makes then look like a fool

Satan knew this era would come eventually... where knowledge has been increased and people are more aware. So,.. he comes up with next best thing.. Aliens. Aliens are now being pushed as responsible for creation,..but that falls flat on it's face as you can ask to infinity... where did they come from? lol

Here is what really blows my mind... since we have established beyond doubt that a Creator always existed... which is very hard to comprehend as we live in a Universe of time and space,... here is what really makes my mind explode... where did God get knowledge?

God always had it!,..that is quite obvious! Always existed and always had knowledge,.. wow! = Truth. How can an entity always had knowledge... I will never understand that but it's the truth

Yeah, so..... "always existed" and "another dimension" is the clear winner here... absolutely no doubt
Silly_Billy
Posts: 653
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11/19/2016 5:41:12 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 3:45:51 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
Intelligence has nothing to do with belief. Belief is not linked directly to rationality.

Actually it is to a point. I do agree that believing in a "God" does not automatically make you unrational, but believing in a holy scripture that defies rationality is unrational.
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,373
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11/19/2016 7:13:13 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 5:41:12 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 3:45:51 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
Intelligence has nothing to do with belief. Belief is not linked directly to rationality.

Actually it is to a point. I do agree that believing in a "God" does not automatically make you unrational, but believing in a holy scripture that defies rationality is unrational.

I think it would be irrational of you to assume a literal interpretation when many verses of the Bible can be seen as metaphorical.
Silly_Billy
Posts: 653
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11/19/2016 8:18:52 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 7:13:13 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 11/19/2016 5:41:12 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 3:45:51 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
Intelligence has nothing to do with belief. Belief is not linked directly to rationality.

Actually it is to a point. I do agree that believing in a "God" does not automatically make you unrational, but believing in a holy scripture that defies rationality is unrational.

I think it would be irrational of you to assume a literal interpretation when many verses of the Bible can be seen as metaphorical.

Far from it, i do think that the Bible should not be taken literal and as long as it isn't taken literal, it does have a few very good codes to live by. The problem however is that a lot of the Theists on this site do take it literal. The whole anti-evolution issue for instance is a direct result of Theists interpreting Genesis literally and denouncing science because its evidence does not stroke with their literal interpretation.
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,373
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11/19/2016 8:35:50 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 8:18:52 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 7:13:13 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 11/19/2016 5:41:12 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 3:45:51 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
Intelligence has nothing to do with belief. Belief is not linked directly to rationality.

Actually it is to a point. I do agree that believing in a "God" does not automatically make you unrational, but believing in a holy scripture that defies rationality is unrational.

I think it would be irrational of you to assume a literal interpretation when many verses of the Bible can be seen as metaphorical.

Far from it, i do think that the Bible should not be taken literal and as long as it isn't taken literal, it does have a few very good codes to live by. The problem however is that a lot of the Theists on this site do take it literal. The whole anti-evolution issue for instance is a direct result of Theists interpreting Genesis literally and denouncing science because its evidence does not stroke with their literal interpretation.

I think there can be a literal interpretation of it that can literally splinter into different angles, that can perhaps be seen in the long view as the same. I won't pretend to know what that is, exactly. Thehubbleprovesgenesis.com had an interesting scientific explaination that combined the sciences with misinterpretations of ancient biblical definitions. For example, the ancient Hebrew word for "day" could mean one day or many days, depending on the context of conversation. And what if this world was literally a holographic simulation? Could this simulation not have been coded in six days? I don't know. I only know it is unwise to dismiss anything we do not fully understand. The only thing I truly understand is ther is an architect to the design of the universe as we know it.
Silly_Billy
Posts: 653
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11/19/2016 9:14:52 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 8:35:50 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 11/19/2016 8:18:52 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 7:13:13 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 11/19/2016 5:41:12 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 3:45:51 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
Intelligence has nothing to do with belief. Belief is not linked directly to rationality.

Actually it is to a point. I do agree that believing in a "God" does not automatically make you unrational, but believing in a holy scripture that defies rationality is unrational.

I think it would be irrational of you to assume a literal interpretation when many verses of the Bible can be seen as metaphorical.

Far from it, i do think that the Bible should not be taken literal and as long as it isn't taken literal, it does have a few very good codes to live by. The problem however is that a lot of the Theists on this site do take it literal. The whole anti-evolution issue for instance is a direct result of Theists interpreting Genesis literally and denouncing science because its evidence does not stroke with their literal interpretation.

I think there can be a literal interpretation of it that can literally splinter into different angles, that can perhaps be seen in the long view as the same. I won't pretend to know what that is, exactly. Thehubbleprovesgenesis.com had an interesting scientific explaination that combined the sciences with misinterpretations of ancient biblical definitions. For example, the ancient Hebrew word for "day" could mean one day or many days, depending on the context of conversation. And what if this world was literally a holographic simulation? Could this simulation not have been coded in six days? I don't know. I only know it is unwise to dismiss anything we do not fully understand. The only thing I truly understand is ther is an architect to the design of the universe as we know it.

To answer one of you questions; Could this simulation not have been coded in six days? the answer is no. To build an artificial reality with the complexity that our reality has from scratch is impossible. It could be possible if the reality was structured on programming that already existed, such as one of us making a webpage using webpage designing software, but that software was still designed and should be included in the time that it took to create the simulation as the simulation would not be possible without that software.

At any rate, the problem with the 'Artificial Reality' hypothesis is that it creates the same problems and questions for the reality in which we would have to have been programmed as we have in our own programmed (or not programmed) reality. Where would that reality have come from? In other words, it would only complicate our own reality without solving any of the complications that we already have.

But the biggest misgiving that i have in regard to the Bible is that it has no more validation than any other religious text and as such, i am not inclined to take it as an absolute truth. It does have a few good codes to live by, no argument there, but it is not enough to use it as a justification for bigotry as some people do.
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,147
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11/19/2016 10:17:24 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 5:41:12 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 3:45:51 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
Intelligence has nothing to do with belief. Belief is not linked directly to rationality.

Actually it is to a point. I do agree that believing in a "God" does not automatically make you unrational, but believing in a holy scripture that defies rationality is unrational.

To a point, meaning there are correlations. There is not a direct link however between belief and rational thought. Belief can be bolstered by evidence, but ultimately you just believe what you believe. It is what it is.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,373
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11/19/2016 11:06:46 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 9:14:52 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 8:35:50 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 11/19/2016 8:18:52 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 7:13:13 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 11/19/2016 5:41:12 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 3:45:51 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
Intelligence has nothing to do with belief. Belief is not linked directly to rationality.

Actually it is to a point. I do agree that believing in a "God" does not automatically make you unrational, but believing in a holy scripture that defies rationality is unrational.

I think it would be irrational of you to assume a literal interpretation when many verses of the Bible can be seen as metaphorical.

Far from it, i do think that the Bible should not be taken literal and as long as it isn't taken literal, it does have a few very good codes to live by. The problem however is that a lot of the Theists on this site do take it literal. The whole anti-evolution issue for instance is a direct result of Theists interpreting Genesis literally and denouncing science because its evidence does not stroke with their literal interpretation.

I think there can be a literal interpretation of it that can literally splinter into different angles, that can perhaps be seen in the long view as the same. I won't pretend to know what that is, exactly. Thehubbleprovesgenesis.com had an interesting scientific explaination that combined the sciences with misinterpretations of ancient biblical definitions. For example, the ancient Hebrew word for "day" could mean one day or many days, depending on the context of conversation. And what if this world was literally a holographic simulation? Could this simulation not have been coded in six days? I don't know. I only know it is unwise to dismiss anything we do not fully understand. The only thing I truly understand is ther is an architect to the design of the universe as we know it.

To answer one of you questions; Could this simulation not have been coded in six days? the answer is no. To build an artificial reality with the complexity that our reality has from scratch is impossible. It could be possible if the reality was structured on programming that already existed, such as one of us making a webpage using webpage designing software, but that software was still designed and should be included in the time that it took to create the simulation as the simulation would not be possible without that software.

At any rate, the problem with the 'Artificial Reality' hypothesis is that it creates the same problems and questions for the reality in which we would have to have been programmed as we have in our own programmed (or not programmed) reality. Where would that reality have come from? In other words, it would only complicate our own reality without solving any of the complications that we already have.

But the biggest misgiving that i have in regard to the Bible is that it has no more validation than any other religious text and as such, i am not inclined to take it as an absolute truth. It does have a few good codes to live by, no argument there, but it is not enough to use it as a justification for bigotry as some people do.

Yet you use the bigotry of those believers, believing what they belief, as a belief now to discredit what has been written. The Bible is not a book, rather a collection of canonized scriptures. There are many other scriptures left out of the Bible which has given me doubts to trust the papacy. It's like they have an agenda to keep the masses from knowing the larger truths.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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11/19/2016 11:12:55 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 10:17:24 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/19/2016 5:41:12 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 3:45:51 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
Intelligence has nothing to do with belief. Belief is not linked directly to rationality.

Actually it is to a point. I do agree that believing in a "God" does not automatically make you unrational, but believing in a holy scripture that defies rationality is unrational.

To a point, meaning there are correlations. There is not a direct link however between belief and rational thought. Belief can be bolstered by evidence, but ultimately you just believe what you believe. It is what it is.

There is no link between belief and rational thought.
Faith is belief in things unseen and expectations of things hoped for.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

Jesus admonished Thomas who insisted on seeing the wounds on Jesus before believing
by saying to Thomas: How blessed is he who has not seen and yet believe,
John 20:29 Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

You have to have a low IQ to believe in God because you are asked not to rely on evidence or rational thought but to blindly believe. Why would God give us intelligence but make intelligence an impediment to believing him?
Matthew 11:25 Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
Adults who are developmentally arrested and display the maturity of a child are what Jesus was alluding to as desirable. Christians appear to hold a monopoly in this genetic disposition. Their low IQ scores and high religiosity is the God standard.
Silly_Billy
Posts: 653
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11/19/2016 11:41:43 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 10:17:24 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/19/2016 5:41:12 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 3:45:51 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
Intelligence has nothing to do with belief. Belief is not linked directly to rationality.

Actually it is to a point. I do agree that believing in a "God" does not automatically make you unrational, but believing in a holy scripture that defies rationality is unrational.

To a point, meaning there are correlations. There is not a direct link however between belief and rational thought. Belief can be bolstered by evidence, but ultimately you just believe what you believe. It is what it is.

Would you say that believing in Santaclaus is rational? It is not bolstered by evidence but as you say, ultimately you just believe what you believe. It is what it is.
Silly_Billy
Posts: 653
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11/19/2016 11:49:39 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 11:06:46 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 11/19/2016 9:14:52 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 8:35:50 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 11/19/2016 8:18:52 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 7:13:13 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 11/19/2016 5:41:12 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 3:45:51 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
Intelligence has nothing to do with belief. Belief is not linked directly to rationality.

Actually it is to a point. I do agree that believing in a "God" does not automatically make you unrational, but believing in a holy scripture that defies rationality is unrational.

I think it would be irrational of you to assume a literal interpretation when many verses of the Bible can be seen as metaphorical.

Far from it, i do think that the Bible should not be taken literal and as long as it isn't taken literal, it does have a few very good codes to live by. The problem however is that a lot of the Theists on this site do take it literal. The whole anti-evolution issue for instance is a direct result of Theists interpreting Genesis literally and denouncing science because its evidence does not stroke with their literal interpretation.

I think there can be a literal interpretation of it that can literally splinter into different angles, that can perhaps be seen in the long view as the same. I won't pretend to know what that is, exactly. Thehubbleprovesgenesis.com had an interesting scientific explaination that combined the sciences with misinterpretations of ancient biblical definitions. For example, the ancient Hebrew word for "day" could mean one day or many days, depending on the context of conversation. And what if this world was literally a holographic simulation? Could this simulation not have been coded in six days? I don't know. I only know it is unwise to dismiss anything we do not fully understand. The only thing I truly understand is ther is an architect to the design of the universe as we know it.

To answer one of you questions; Could this simulation not have been coded in six days? the answer is no. To build an artificial reality with the complexity that our reality has from scratch is impossible. It could be possible if the reality was structured on programming that already existed, such as one of us making a webpage using webpage designing software, but that software was still designed and should be included in the time that it took to create the simulation as the simulation would not be possible without that software.

At any rate, the problem with the 'Artificial Reality' hypothesis is that it creates the same problems and questions for the reality in which we would have to have been programmed as we have in our own programmed (or not programmed) reality. Where would that reality have come from? In other words, it would only complicate our own reality without solving any of the complications that we already have.

But the biggest misgiving that i have in regard to the Bible is that it has no more validation than any other religious text and as such, i am not inclined to take it as an absolute truth. It does have a few good codes to live by, no argument there, but it is not enough to use it as a justification for bigotry as some people do.

Yet you use the bigotry of those believers, believing what they belief, as a belief now to discredit what has been written.

The only thing that i discredit is the "literal" words of the Bible, i have never discredited the thoughts behind those words though i have often said that the Biblical God does not exist. In truth, the Biblical God as 'literally' described can not exist but that does not mean that there therefor can be no God.

The Bible is not a book, rather a collection of canonized scriptures. There are many other scriptures left out of the Bible which has given me doubts to trust the papacy. It's like they have an agenda to keep the masses from knowing the larger truths.

The agenda has always been about the power to control. Whether this control is through religion, fianances, politics, or whatever, it is all about control.
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,373
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11/20/2016 12:18:41 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 11:49:39 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 11:06:46 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 11/19/2016 9:14:52 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 8:35:50 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 11/19/2016 8:18:52 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 7:13:13 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 11/19/2016 5:41:12 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 3:45:51 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
Intelligence has nothing to do with belief. Belief is not linked directly to rationality.

Actually it is to a point. I do agree that believing in a "God" does not automatically make you unrational, but believing in a holy scripture that defies rationality is unrational.

I think it would be irrational of you to assume a literal interpretation when many verses of the Bible can be seen as metaphorical.

Far from it, i do think that the Bible should not be taken literal and as long as it isn't taken literal, it does have a few very good codes to live by. The problem however is that a lot of the Theists on this site do take it literal. The whole anti-evolution issue for instance is a direct result of Theists interpreting Genesis literally and denouncing science because its evidence does not stroke with their literal interpretation.

I think there can be a literal interpretation of it that can literally splinter into different angles, that can perhaps be seen in the long view as the same. I won't pretend to know what that is, exactly. Thehubbleprovesgenesis.com had an interesting scientific explaination that combined the sciences with misinterpretations of ancient biblical definitions. For example, the ancient Hebrew word for "day" could mean one day or many days, depending on the context of conversation. And what if this world was literally a holographic simulation? Could this simulation not have been coded in six days? I don't know. I only know it is unwise to dismiss anything we do not fully understand. The only thing I truly understand is ther is an architect to the design of the universe as we know it.

To answer one of you questions; Could this simulation not have been coded in six days? the answer is no. To build an artificial reality with the complexity that our reality has from scratch is impossible. It could be possible if the reality was structured on programming that already existed, such as one of us making a webpage using webpage designing software, but that software was still designed and should be included in the time that it took to create the simulation as the simulation would not be possible without that software.

At any rate, the problem with the 'Artificial Reality' hypothesis is that it creates the same problems and questions for the reality in which we would have to have been programmed as we have in our own programmed (or not programmed) reality. Where would that reality have come from? In other words, it would only complicate our own reality without solving any of the complications that we already have.

But the biggest misgiving that i have in regard to the Bible is that it has no more validation than any other religious text and as such, i am not inclined to take it as an absolute truth. It does have a few good codes to live by, no argument there, but it is not enough to use it as a justification for bigotry as some people do.

Yet you use the bigotry of those believers, believing what they belief, as a belief now to discredit what has been written.

The only thing that i discredit is the "literal" words of the Bible, i have never discredited the thoughts behind those words though i have often said that the Biblical God does not exist. In truth, the Biblical God as 'literally' described can not exist but that does not mean that there therefor can be no God.

The Bible is not a book, rather a collection of canonized scriptures. There are many other scriptures left out of the Bible which has given me doubts to trust the papacy. It's like they have an agenda to keep the masses from knowing the larger truths.

The agenda has always been about the power to control. Whether this control is through religion, fianances, politics, or whatever, it is all about control.

Maybe. I won't count it out. But there are other angles to consider if considering life is a game of lessons. If you're given all the answers then there is always the art of learning now lost. Sometimes things get held back for good reasons. Ultimately I've always thought humanity is decent to its very core. Thus making the creator decent as well. Things happen for reasons that perhaps are beyond our abilities to comprehend.
Silly_Billy
Posts: 653
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11/20/2016 12:32:37 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/20/2016 12:18:41 AM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 11/19/2016 11:49:39 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 11:06:46 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 11/19/2016 9:14:52 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 8:35:50 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 11/19/2016 8:18:52 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 7:13:13 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 11/19/2016 5:41:12 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/19/2016 3:45:51 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
Intelligence has nothing to do with belief. Belief is not linked directly to rationality.

Actually it is to a point. I do agree that believing in a "God" does not automatically make you unrational, but believing in a holy scripture that defies rationality is unrational.

I think it would be irrational of you to assume a literal interpretation when many verses of the Bible can be seen as metaphorical.

Far from it, i do think that the Bible should not be taken literal and as long as it isn't taken literal, it does have a few very good codes to live by. The problem however is that a lot of the Theists on this site do take it literal. The whole anti-evolution issue for instance is a direct result of Theists interpreting Genesis literally and denouncing science because its evidence does not stroke with their literal interpretation.

I think there can be a literal interpretation of it that can literally splinter into different angles, that can perhaps be seen in the long view as the same. I won't pretend to know what that is, exactly. Thehubbleprovesgenesis.com had an interesting scientific explaination that combined the sciences with misinterpretations of ancient biblical definitions. For example, the ancient Hebrew word for "day" could mean one day or many days, depending on the context of conversation. And what if this world was literally a holographic simulation? Could this simulation not have been coded in six days? I don't know. I only know it is unwise to dismiss anything we do not fully understand. The only thing I truly understand is ther is an architect to the design of the universe as we know it.

To answer one of you questions; Could this simulation not have been coded in six days? the answer is no. To build an artificial reality with the complexity that our reality has from scratch is impossible. It could be possible if the reality was structured on programming that already existed, such as one of us making a webpage using webpage designing software, but that software was still designed and should be included in the time that it took to create the simulation as the simulation would not be possible without that software.

At any rate, the problem with the 'Artificial Reality' hypothesis is that it creates the same problems and questions for the reality in which we would have to have been programmed as we have in our own programmed (or not programmed) reality. Where would that reality have come from? In other words, it would only complicate our own reality without solving any of the complications that we already have.

But the biggest misgiving that i have in regard to the Bible is that it has no more validation than any other religious text and as such, i am not inclined to take it as an absolute truth. It does have a few good codes to live by, no argument there, but it is not enough to use it as a justification for bigotry as some people do.

Yet you use the bigotry of those believers, believing what they belief, as a belief now to discredit what has been written.

The only thing that i discredit is the "literal" words of the Bible, i have never discredited the thoughts behind those words though i have often said that the Biblical God does not exist. In truth, the Biblical God as 'literally' described can not exist but that does not mean that there therefor can be no God.

The Bible is not a book, rather a collection of canonized scriptures. There are many other scriptures left out of the Bible which has given me doubts to trust the papacy. It's like they have an agenda to keep the masses from knowing the larger truths.

The agenda has always been about the power to control. Whether this control is through religion, fianances, politics, or whatever, it is all about control.

Maybe. I won't count it out. But there are other angles to consider if considering life is a game of lessons. If you're given all the answers then there is always the art of learning now lost. Sometimes things get held back for good reasons. Ultimately I've always thought humanity is decent to its very core. Thus making the creator decent as well. Things happen for reasons that perhaps are beyond our abilities to comprehend.

If we all have an inmortal soul, then in my opinion life can not be a game of lessons as lessons would imply change and growth, states which contradict inmortality. It is far more likely that life would be an escape from the drearyness of non-life in the same token that going to the movies is our escape from reality.