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Most basic difference between theism/atheism?

Benshapiro
Posts: 3,928
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11/20/2016 5:44:21 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
People have wildly different ideas on what the term "God" means. We need to have a clear definition of what it is we're talking about before we can argue whether it exists or doesn't.

So how should God be defined? What's the most basic and fundamental difference between theism and atheism when talking about God?

Is existence fundamentally derivative from consciousness or is existence fundamentally derivative from matter?

That, I believe, is the most basic and fundamental difference between theism and atheism. Theism inextricably holds the position that existence derove from consciousness and atheism inextricably lacks that affirmation or holds the position that existence derove from matter.
distraff
Posts: 1,002
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11/20/2016 6:06:53 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/20/2016 5:44:21 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
People have wildly different ideas on what the term "God" means. We need to have a clear definition of what it is we're talking about before we can argue whether it exists or doesn't.

So how should God be defined? What's the most basic and fundamental difference between theism and atheism when talking about God?

Is existence fundamentally derivative from consciousness or is existence fundamentally derivative from matter?

That, I believe, is the most basic and fundamental difference between theism and atheism. Theism inextricably holds the position that existence derove from consciousness and atheism inextricably lacks that affirmation or holds the position that existence derove from matter.

You are going to have to tweak your theism definition. Existence is all that exists, so if God exists he is part of all that exists. So if you say that existence came from consciousness then you say that God himself was created by someone.

Your atheism definition is going to need a lot more work. It is impossible for existence to come from matter if that matter by definition is part of existence. This definition basically says that existence created itself.

So there are two possibilities under atheism: Existence came from nothing, or existence is timeless or eternal.

The universe isn't proven to be all of existence and could be only a part of it. Atheists believe it came from a big bang but that was more of an expansion rather than a creation. The big bang doesn't explain where the original matter in the universe came from. Some believe it came from nothing and others believe that the matter in the universe has existed timelessly before the big bang created time. Maybe the big bang happened in a multiverse where each universe is a bubble among
distraff
Posts: 1,002
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11/20/2016 6:14:01 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/20/2016 5:44:21 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
People have wildly different ideas on what the term "God" means. We need to have a clear definition of what it is we're talking about before we can argue whether it exists or doesn't.

So how should God be defined? What's the most basic and fundamental difference between theism and atheism when talking about God?

Is existence fundamentally derivative from consciousness or is existence fundamentally derivative from matter?

That, I believe, is the most basic and fundamental difference between theism and atheism. Theism inextricably holds the position that existence derove from consciousness and atheism inextricably lacks that affirmation or holds the position that existence derove from matter.

Also, matter isn't all there is. There is also space, time, forces, energy, and other things we don't even know about. So atheism isn't necessarily about existence coming from matter.
Silly_Billy
Posts: 641
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11/20/2016 6:18:19 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/20/2016 6:14:01 PM, distraff wrote:
At 11/20/2016 5:44:21 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
People have wildly different ideas on what the term "God" means. We need to have a clear definition of what it is we're talking about before we can argue whether it exists or doesn't.

So how should God be defined? What's the most basic and fundamental difference between theism and atheism when talking about God?

Is existence fundamentally derivative from consciousness or is existence fundamentally derivative from matter?

That, I believe, is the most basic and fundamental difference between theism and atheism. Theism inextricably holds the position that existence derove from consciousness and atheism inextricably lacks that affirmation or holds the position that existence derove from matter.

Also, matter isn't all there is. There is also space, time, forces, energy, and other things we don't even know about. So atheism isn't necessarily about existence coming from matter.

Matter 'IS' energy.
distraff
Posts: 1,002
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11/20/2016 6:20:58 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/20/2016 6:18:19 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/20/2016 6:14:01 PM, distraff wrote:
At 11/20/2016 5:44:21 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
People have wildly different ideas on what the term "God" means. We need to have a clear definition of what it is we're talking about before we can argue whether it exists or doesn't.

So how should God be defined? What's the most basic and fundamental difference between theism and atheism when talking about God?

Is existence fundamentally derivative from consciousness or is existence fundamentally derivative from matter?

That, I believe, is the most basic and fundamental difference between theism and atheism. Theism inextricably holds the position that existence derove from consciousness and atheism inextricably lacks that affirmation or holds the position that existence derove from matter.

Also, matter isn't all there is. There is also space, time, forces, energy, and other things we don't even know about. So atheism isn't necessarily about existence coming from matter.

Matter 'IS' energy.

True, matter is just condensed energy.
mrsatan
Posts: 417
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11/20/2016 6:23:49 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/20/2016 5:44:21 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
People have wildly different ideas on what the term "God" means. We need to have a clear definition of what it is we're talking about before we can argue whether it exists or doesn't.

So how should God be defined? What's the most basic and fundamental difference between theism and atheism when talking about God?

Is existence fundamentally derivative from consciousness or is existence fundamentally derivative from matter?

That, I believe, is the most basic and fundamental difference between theism and atheism. Theism inextricably holds the position that existence derove from consciousness and atheism inextricably lacks that affirmation or holds the position that existence derove from matter.

Can't say as I believe either is true. I cant even make sense out of either proposition. To say existence derived from something necessitates that something existed in the first place. Ergo, existence cannot be brought about by either consciousness, matter, or anything else.

Either something caused itself to exist, or something has existed eternally (feel free to suggest another possibility).

Couple the logical absurdities that come with either option with our shortage of other tools to examine the options. Together, that puts us up s*** creek without paddle.

This is why you consistently hear atheists say there is no evidence of God. Not because there necessarily isn't, but because we have no way of identifying anything that would be. In regards to practicality, the two are equivalent.
To say one has free will, to have chosen other than they did, is to say they have will over their will... Will over the will they have over their will... Will over the will they have over the will they have over their will, etc... It's utter nonsense.