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Atheists I have a few questions for you

Benshapiro
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11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
Are potato chips atheists?

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?

Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?
FanboyMctroll
Posts: 168
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11/22/2016 5:21:30 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Are potato chips atheists?

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?

Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

So far technology has shown us more in 50 years then religion has in 2000 years. We are still discovering things, exploring the endless universe, while the religious person is still believing in Santa Clause, Tooth Fairy and whatever other GOD they want to rely on as a crutch for their feeble existence.
Benshapiro
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11/22/2016 5:23:24 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:21:30 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Are potato chips atheists?

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?

Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

So far technology has shown us more in 50 years then religion has in 2000 years. We are still discovering things, exploring the endless universe, while the religious person is still believing in Santa Clause, Tooth Fairy and whatever other GOD they want to rely on as a crutch for their feeble existence.

Irrelevant. Next.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,237
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11/22/2016 5:25:06 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Are potato chips atheists?

Technically yes.

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

Depends on their slant. Agnostic atheist is a thing.

If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?

No.

Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

Depends on the circumstance.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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11/22/2016 5:31:13 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Are potato chips atheists?

Potato chips are not conscious or aware. The question is meaningless.

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

Yes. They are agnostic atheists, rejecting the assertion that God exists but understanding that they cannot know for sure.

If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?

No. The lack of evidence is sufficient cause to reject the assertion that God exists pending possible future evidence. There is nothing here to prove, that burden lies on the person making the assertion.

Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

After sufficient period of time, yes. Even in our laws, if someone is missing for an extended period of time they are declared legally dead, citing absence of evidence for existence as evidence of non-existence.
ethang5
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11/22/2016 5:33:21 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:25:06 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

Are potato chips atheists?

Technically yes.

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

Depends on their slant. Agnostic atheist is a thing.

Potato chips are technically atheists, but people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God may not be???

Atheist logic. The Pringles of the cognitive intelligentsia! No wondr so many of their posts seem to have been written by potato chips.

If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?

No.

Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

Depends on the circumstance.
kasmic
Posts: 1,302
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11/22/2016 5:37:24 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Are potato chips atheists?
no
Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?
yes, as atheism is the absence of theism...
If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?
No, I hold the view that God likely does not exist because of the problem of evil as well as tremendous lack of evidence. The view that something does not exist due to lack of evidence is not one people I associate with seem to hold.
Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?
No, but if you said there was a 2nd moon to earth I would assume the lack of evidence strongly suggests your assertion false. At least based on what constitutes a moon. Likewise, it is not absence of evidence that is evidence of absence, it is the obvious lack of evidence that leads to reasonable doubt.
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Benshapiro
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11/22/2016 5:37:25 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:25:06 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Are potato chips atheists?

Technically yes.

This goes to show how the term "atheist" became useless with the new atheist movement. In the literature and in philosophy, atheism means "the view that God doesn't exist."

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

Depends on their slant. Agnostic atheist is a thing.

Agnostic-atheist or Agnostic-theist is a pointless delineation. Gnostic literally means "having knowledge" or "known." There is literally no one who has knowledge or knows whether God exists or not. Everyone is agnostic in terms of their knowledge. "Agnosticism" overwhelmingly refers to neither belief nor disbelief in God, not your position on knowledge anyway.

If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?

No.

So you agree that disbelieving in God's existence due to lack of evidence is a position that carries a burden of proof?

Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

Depends on the circumstance.

It depends more so on how the word "evidence" is defined. Do we have evidence that there are no square triangles?
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,237
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11/22/2016 5:38:08 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:33:21 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:25:06 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

Are potato chips atheists?

Technically yes.

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

Depends on their slant. Agnostic atheist is a thing.

Potato chips are technically atheists, but people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God may not be???

I have seen atheism simply defined as "the lack of belief in god or Gods". In as much as potato chips don't have the capacity to believe in anything, that suffices as a "lack of belief".

Atheist logic. The Pringles of the cognitive intelligentsia! No wondr so many of their posts seem to have been written by potato chips.

-shrug- Depends on the definition one wants to use, hence "technically" in the original descriptor.

"broke" is the lack of money, right?
Potato chips are broke, too.

Is this a problem... or...?
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dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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11/22/2016 5:42:21 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:38:08 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:33:21 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:25:06 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

Are potato chips atheists?

Technically yes.

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

Depends on their slant. Agnostic atheist is a thing.

Potato chips are technically atheists, but people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God may not be???

I have seen atheism simply defined as "the lack of belief in god or Gods". In as much as potato chips don't have the capacity to believe in anything, that suffices as a "lack of belief".

Atheist logic. The Pringles of the cognitive intelligentsia! No wondr so many of their posts seem to have been written by potato chips.

-shrug- Depends on the definition one wants to use, hence "technically" in the original descriptor.


"broke" is the lack of money, right?
Potato chips are broke, too.

Is this a problem... or...?

Yes. You can't get any salsa with broke chip.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,237
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11/22/2016 5:42:31 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:37:25 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:25:06 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Are potato chips atheists?

Technically yes.

This goes to show how the term "atheist" became useless with the new atheist movement. In the literature and in philosophy, atheism means "the view that God doesn't exist."

I guess. As I was telling Ethan, it really depends on the definition one wants to use, and how one wants to use it.

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

Depends on their slant. Agnostic atheist is a thing.

Agnostic-atheist or Agnostic-theist is a pointless delineation. Gnostic literally means "having knowledge" or "known." There is literally no one who has knowledge or knows whether God exists or not. Everyone is agnostic in terms of their knowledge. "Agnosticism" overwhelmingly refers to neither belief nor disbelief in God, not your position on knowledge anyway.

You and Ethan should have a chat about that.

If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?

No.

So you agree that disbelieving in God's existence due to lack of evidence is a position that carries a burden of proof?

I have no reason to accept a position of existence of something in which there is no evidence to its existence. Sorry, I misread your sentence. An atheist doesn't have a burden of proof, its the default position.

Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

Depends on the circumstance.

It depends more so on how the word "evidence" is defined. Do we have evidence that there are no square triangles?

No, I still think is more based on the circumstance. If I were to claim an empty held apples but not oranges, and through various sniff tests and indepth forensics, it is found that there is no "orange" residue, scent, etc, such an assertion of apples and not oranges holds merit.
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FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,237
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11/22/2016 5:44:23 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:42:21 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:38:08 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:33:21 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:25:06 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

Are potato chips atheists?

Technically yes.

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

Depends on their slant. Agnostic atheist is a thing.

Potato chips are technically atheists, but people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God may not be???

I have seen atheism simply defined as "the lack of belief in god or Gods". In as much as potato chips don't have the capacity to believe in anything, that suffices as a "lack of belief".

Atheist logic. The Pringles of the cognitive intelligentsia! No wondr so many of their posts seem to have been written by potato chips.

-shrug- Depends on the definition one wants to use, hence "technically" in the original descriptor.


"broke" is the lack of money, right?
Potato chips are broke, too.

Is this a problem... or...?

Yes. You can't get any salsa with broke chip.

I like how that works on 2 levels. XD
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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Benshapiro
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11/22/2016 5:45:47 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:31:13 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Are potato chips atheists?

Potato chips are not conscious or aware. The question is meaningless.

You're confusing your unwillingness to answer the question with the notion that the question is meaningless. It's simple. Are potato chips atheists? Yes or no?

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

Yes. They are agnostic atheists, rejecting the assertion that God exists but understanding that they cannot know for sure.

"Rejecting the assertion that God exists" is disbelief. My statement only refers to people who don't disbelieve in God. The term "agnostic atheist" or "agnostic theist" is useless since nobody is "gnostic" on whether God exists or not.

If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?

No. The lack of evidence is sufficient cause to reject the assertion that God exists pending possible future evidence. There is nothing here to prove, that burden lies on the person making the assertion.

Nope. Believing that something is false based on lack of evidence to the contrary is a rationally unjustifiable position. I'll demonstrate. "There is a dead frog in the pond nearest your house." I'm asserting this without any evidence whatsoever. According to your logic, my statement is false until proven otherwise. What we really do is withhold judgement pending further information.

Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

After sufficient period of time, yes. Even in our laws, if someone is missing for an extended period of time they are declared legally dead, citing absence of evidence for existence as evidence of non-existence.

That is evidence of absence, not vice versa. If you disagree then what do you think evidence of absence means?
Benshapiro
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11/22/2016 5:47:25 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:33:21 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:25:06 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

Are potato chips atheists?

Technically yes.

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

Depends on their slant. Agnostic atheist is a thing.

Potato chips are technically atheists, but people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God may not be???

Atheist logic. The Pringles of the cognitive intelligentsia! No wondr so many of their posts seem to have been written by potato chips.

If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?

No.

Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

Depends on the circumstance.

Lol doesn't make much sense does it? This whole notion that "Atheism is defined as lack of belief" leads to some absurd consequences.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,237
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11/22/2016 5:51:15 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:47:25 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:33:21 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:25:06 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

Are potato chips atheists?

Technically yes.

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

Depends on their slant. Agnostic atheist is a thing.

Potato chips are technically atheists, but people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God may not be???

Atheist logic. The Pringles of the cognitive intelligentsia! No wondr so many of their posts seem to have been written by potato chips.

If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?

No.

Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

Depends on the circumstance.

Lol doesn't make much sense does it? This whole notion that "Atheism is defined as lack of belief" leads to some absurd consequences.

If such a simplistic definition is to be used, indeed. I enjoyed your "taking the view" descriptor, I find that more relevant to what it describes. It gives a higher agency to the described.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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Benshapiro
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11/22/2016 5:51:30 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:37:24 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Are potato chips atheists?
no
Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?
yes, as atheism is the absence of theism...

This poses a contradiction with your first answer. Unless you're arguing that potato chips are theists?

If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?
No, I hold the view that God likely does not exist because of the problem of evil as well as tremendous lack of evidence. The view that something does not exist due to lack of evidence is not one people I associate with seem to hold.

By "lack of evidence" do you mean "evidence of absence"? Lack of evidence is by definition a lack of evidence for anything, whether it's proving an assertion true or false. I have no problem with the problem of evil being evidence against God, if true, and depending on how God is defined.

Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?
No, but if you said there was a 2nd moon to earth I would assume the lack of evidence strongly suggests your assertion false. At least based on what constitutes a moon. Likewise, it is not absence of evidence that is evidence of absence, it is the obvious lack of evidence that leads to reasonable doubt.

I think what you mean is evidence of absence then, not vice versa.
Skepticalone
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11/22/2016 5:52:32 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Are potato chips atheists?

No

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

If someone does not believe in god, then they are atheists (whether they label themselves that way or not).

If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?

That sounds like you're describing mere disbelief due to the claim "God exists" not being substantiated. In that case, there is no burden of proof on the skeptic.

That being said, I think many atheists go beyond mere disbelief and make a positive claim for the non-existence of specific gods. When that is the case, atheists have a burden.

Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

Yes, but we should be careful not to confuse "evidence" with proof.
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Silly_Billy
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11/22/2016 5:53:51 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Are potato chips atheists?


Nope, Patato Chips are a snack.

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

Nope, they are openminded.

If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?

I suppose in the same token that i would not be burdened to to provide proof of the non-existence of Santaclaus, the Tooth Fairy, Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck to those who do believe that they existent.

Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

No it is not though you can say that absence of evidence of something negates any of the obligations that that something would impose upon you. When there is no evidence that eating a cookie is bad for you, should cookies be outlawed because there are people who believe that cookies are bad for you?
dhardage
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11/22/2016 5:55:13 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:45:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:31:13 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Are potato chips atheists?

Potato chips are not conscious or aware. The question is meaningless.

You're confusing your unwillingness to answer the question with the notion that the question is meaningless. It's simple. Are potato chips atheists? Yes or no?

Belief or even the ability to believe or to reject is function of a conscious, aware entity. Potato chips lack the characteristic. Therefore, the question is meaningless.

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

Yes. They are agnostic atheists, rejecting the assertion that God exists but understanding that they cannot know for sure.

"Rejecting the assertion that God exists" is disbelief. My statement only refers to people who don't disbelieve in God. The term "agnostic atheist" or "agnostic theist" is useless since nobody is "gnostic" on whether God exists or not.

They don't disbelieve, the lack belief because they have no evidence. There is a difference.

If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?

No. The lack of evidence is sufficient cause to reject the assertion that God exists pending possible future evidence. There is nothing here to prove, that burden lies on the person making the assertion.

Nope. Believing that something is false based on lack of evidence to the contrary is a rationally unjustifiable position. I'll demonstrate. "There is a dead frog in the pond nearest your house." I'm asserting this without any evidence whatsoever. According to your logic, my statement is false until proven otherwise. What we really do is withhold judgement pending further information.

If you tell me there's a dead frog in a pond I can look and find out. If you tell me there's something invisible, undetectable, totally without shape, form, or substance yet it can create and control an entire universe, there is no way to even potentially falsify it. There has been no factual, verifiable evidence of this entity in the millennia since the assertion first appeared. Any rational person would not accept the assertion but realizes that there is a possibility that such an entity does exist. The individual would continue to live and act as if there were no such entity, that being the default position, until such time as potentially falsifiable evidence it is presented.

Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

After sufficient period of time, yes. Even in our laws, if someone is missing for an extended period of time they are declared legally dead, citing absence of evidence for existence as evidence of non-existence.

That is evidence of absence, not vice versa. If you disagree then what do you think evidence of absence means?

I was quite clear. Extended absence of evidence can be conditionally considered evidence of absence. Unless actual evidence of existence can be provided, rejecting the assertion of existence due to lack of evidence is the rational reaction. It's been thousands of years with zero actual evidence. That, to the reasonable, rational mind, indicates absence and thus will live as if the subject of the assertion is absent.
Benshapiro
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11/22/2016 6:00:45 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:42:31 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:37:25 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:25:06 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Are potato chips atheists?

Technically yes.

This goes to show how the term "atheist" became useless with the new atheist movement. In the literature and in philosophy, atheism means "the view that God doesn't exist."

I guess. As I was telling Ethan, it really depends on the definition one wants to use, and how one wants to use it.

Why should we use a term that requires several follow up questions to determine what position the person actually has? It's too encompassing of different positions to be useful.

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

Depends on their slant. Agnostic atheist is a thing.

Agnostic-atheist or Agnostic-theist is a pointless delineation. Gnostic literally means "having knowledge" or "known." There is literally no one who has knowledge or knows whether God exists or not. Everyone is agnostic in terms of their knowledge. "Agnosticism" overwhelmingly refers to neither belief nor disbelief in God, not your position on knowledge anyway.

You and Ethan should have a chat about that.

Ok...

If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?

No.

So you agree that disbelieving in God's existence due to lack of evidence is a position that carries a burden of proof?

I have no reason to accept a position of existence of something in which there is no evidence to its existence. Sorry, I misread your sentence. An atheist doesn't have a burden of proof, its the default position.

I agree with what you just said by that's not what I asked. I asked "If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?"

Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

Depends on the circumstance.

It depends more so on how the word "evidence" is defined. Do we have evidence that there are no square triangles?

No, I still think is more based on the circumstance. If I were to claim an empty held apples but not oranges, and through various sniff tests and indepth forensics, it is found that there is no "orange" residue, scent, etc, such an assertion of apples and not oranges holds merit.

You can either define evidence to mean information indicating whether a claim is true or false or you can define evidence to mean anything existing empirically which indicates that a claim is true.
kasmic
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11/22/2016 6:08:00 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:51:30 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:37:24 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Are potato chips atheists?
no
Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?
yes, as atheism is the absence of theism...

This poses a contradiction with your first answer. Unless you're arguing that potato chips are theists?
Potato chips do not hold or reject any beliefs. They could no more be theist or atheist as republican or democratic. They cant be smart or dumb etc...
If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?
No, I hold the view that God likely does not exist because of the problem of evil as well as tremendous lack of evidence. The view that something does not exist due to lack of evidence is not one people I associate with seem to hold.

By "lack of evidence" do you mean "evidence of absence"? Lack of evidence is by definition a lack of evidence for anything, whether it's proving an assertion true or false. I have no problem with the problem of evil being evidence against God, if true, and depending on how God is defined.

Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?
No, but if you said there was a 2nd moon to earth I would assume the lack of evidence strongly suggests your assertion false. At least based on what constitutes a moon. Likewise, it is not absence of evidence that is evidence of absence, it is the obvious lack of evidence that leads to reasonable doubt.

I think what you mean is evidence of absence then, not vice versa.
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"Intro to IR An Open Discussion" http://www.debate.org...

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My latest article: http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,237
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11/22/2016 6:13:15 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
Are potato chips atheists?

Technically yes.

This goes to show how the term "atheist" became useless with the new atheist movement. In the literature and in philosophy, atheism means "the view that God doesn't exist."

I guess. As I was telling Ethan, it really depends on the definition one wants to use, and how one wants to use it.

Why should we use a term that requires several follow up questions to determine what position the person actually has? It's too encompassing of different positions to be useful.

No, I find follow up questions to be quite useful.

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

Depends on their slant. Agnostic atheist is a thing.

Agnostic-atheist or Agnostic-theist is a pointless delineation. Gnostic literally means "having knowledge" or "known." There is literally no one who has knowledge or knows whether God exists or not. Everyone is agnostic in terms of their knowledge. "Agnosticism" overwhelmingly refers to neither belief nor disbelief in God, not your position on knowledge anyway.

You and Ethan should have a chat about that.

Ok...

If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?

No.

So you agree that disbelieving in God's existence due to lack of evidence is a position that carries a burden of proof?

I have no reason to accept a position of existence of something in which there is no evidence to its existence. Sorry, I misread your sentence. An atheist doesn't have a burden of proof, its the default position.

I agree with what you just said by that's not what I asked. I asked "If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?"

The person whom holds the view that God doesn't exist has no burden of proof.

Yes, we have no bananas.

Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

Depends on the circumstance.

It depends more so on how the word "evidence" is defined. Do we have evidence that there are no square triangles?

No, I still think is more based on the circumstance. If I were to claim an empty held apples but not oranges, and through various sniff tests and indepth forensics, it is found that there is no "orange" residue, scent, etc, such an assertion of apples and not oranges holds merit.

You can either define evidence to mean information indicating whether a claim is true or false or you can define evidence to mean anything existing empirically which indicates that a claim is true.

I would say evidence are relevant facts and events to an assertion, myself.
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Benshapiro
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11/22/2016 6:17:12 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:52:32 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Are potato chips atheists?

No

Would you consider "lack of belief in God" to be an accurate description of atheism? Do potato chips lack belief in God?

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

If someone does not believe in god, then they are atheists (whether they label themselves that way or not).

So why aren't potato chips, toilet paper, and outer space atheists also?

If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?

That sounds like you're describing mere disbelief due to the claim "God exists" not being substantiated. In that case, there is no burden of proof on the skeptic.

How are you differentiating disbelief versus non-belief? Or are you treating them to mean the exact same thing?

That being said, I think many atheists go beyond mere disbelief and make a positive claim for the non-existence of specific gods. When that is the case, atheists have a burden.

If I claimed "2 + 2 = 4" and you reply "that's untrue" then this is the exact same thing as having the position that "2 + 2 does not equal 4 is true."

Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

Yes, but we should be careful not to confuse "evidence" with proof.

I disagree. How are you defining evidence?
Chaosism
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11/22/2016 6:18:32 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Are potato chips atheists?

No. The suffix "-ist" indicates that the subject is a person or thinking entity. They could be deemed atheistic, however, since they have nothing to do with any god or gods (e.g. an atheistic religion).

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

Depends on the evaluating individuals' definition of 'atheism'. I would say 'yes' due to the sole qualifier of not believing.

I'm not sure how one can "neither believe nor disbelieve" because "disbelief" doesn't just mean to believe that something is false; it can mean a lack of belief or an inability to believe.

If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?

This isn't a reasonable question without any surrounding context. To hold the positively assertive position that X doesn't exist simply because X hasn't been shown to exist is irrational, in isolation. This largely depends on the definition of "god".

Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

In cases in which it would be reasonable to expect evidence, yes.
Benshapiro
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11/22/2016 6:21:01 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:53:51 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Are potato chips atheists?


Nope, Patato Chips are a snack.

Is "lacking belief in God" an accurate definition of atheism?

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

Nope, they are openminded.

Are they agnostic?

If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?

I suppose in the same token that i would not be burdened to to provide proof of the non-existence of Santaclaus, the Tooth Fairy, Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck to those who do believe that they existent.

Do you disbelieve that those characters exist or are you withholding judgement pending further information? If you disbelieve, then why?

Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

No it is not though you can say that absence of evidence of something negates any of the obligations that that something would impose upon you. When there is no evidence that eating a cookie is bad for you, should cookies be outlawed because there are people who believe that cookies are bad for you?

Ok.
ethang5
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11/22/2016 6:22:51 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:47:25 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:33:21 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:25:06 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

Are potato chips atheists?

Technically yes.

Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

Depends on their slant. Agnostic atheist is a thing.

Potato chips are technically atheists, but people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God may not be???

Atheist logic. The Pringles of the cognitive intelligentsia! No wondr so many of their posts seem to have been written by potato chips.

If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?

No.

Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

Depends on the circumstance.

Lol doesn't make much sense does it? This whole notion that "Atheism is defined as lack of belief" leads to some absurd consequences.

Yes, as has been shown in numerous exchanges between you and I and them. They seem to value the belief more than the absurdity it leads them to.

The word is A-theism. The root is theism. It is a rejection of the theistic belief. An atheist is one who has actively rejected theism. An agnostic is one who has made no cognitive determination.

The claim by atheists that atheism is only a lack of belief (in what?) is a recent one.
They began claiming that Atheism was defined as simply a lack of belief (in what?) when theists began showing that atheism was in fact a world-view, and began challenging that world-view. Atheists have never been able to defend their world-view because is is fundamentally irrational. So their band-aid solution was - "Atheism is ONLY a lack of belief." (in what) Just ask them, "A lack of belief in what?" And see them dance trying to answer without letting their nakedness show.

So potatoes become certified atheists, while humans who do not believe or disbelieve in God have only 50% chance of being an atheist. Rich.
Silly_Billy
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11/22/2016 6:30:07 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 6:21:01 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:53:51 PM, Silly_Billy wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Are potato chips atheists?


Nope, Patato Chips are a snack.

Is "lacking belief in God" an accurate definition of atheism?

I would say no as it would indeed include Potato Chips and that would be rather silly.


Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

Nope, they are openminded.

Are they agnostic?

I don't know. I could look it up i suppose but what would be the point?


If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?

I suppose in the same token that i would not be burdened to to provide proof of the non-existence of Santaclaus, the Tooth Fairy, Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck to those who do believe that they existent.

Do you disbelieve that those characters exist or are you withholding judgement pending further information? If you disbelieve, then why?

I disbelieve that those characters exist because there is no evidence of their existence, but why should i put a lot of time into or even care about disproving their existence? I think i will hold off on putting time in that issue untill such time that Bugs Bunny is proclaimed the deity of a new religion that wants to force everyone to wear a silly hat because the silly hat is obligatory.


Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

No it is not though you can say that absence of evidence of something negates any of the obligations that that something would impose upon you. When there is no evidence that eating a cookie is bad for you, should cookies be outlawed because there are people who believe that cookies are bad for you?

Ok.

Ok.
Chaosism
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11/22/2016 6:31:22 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 6:22:51 PM, ethang5 wrote:

<snipped>

The word is A-theism. The root is theism. It is a rejection of the theistic belief. An atheist is one who has actively rejected theism. An agnostic is one who has made no cognitive determination.

How have you derived "rejection" from the prefix "a-"? That prefix just indicates "without" or "not".
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,237
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11/22/2016 6:31:57 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
Lol doesn't make much sense does it? This whole notion that "Atheism is defined as lack of belief" leads to some absurd consequences.

Yes, as has been shown in numerous exchanges between you and I and them. They seem to value the belief more than the absurdity it leads them to.

The word is A-theism. The root is theism. It is a rejection of the theistic belief. An atheist is one who has actively rejected theism. An agnostic is one who has made no cognitive determination.

Were you to use the prefix "a" consistently, you would have to say an agnostic is one who actively rejected cognitive determination.

Do amoeba actively reject sex lives? The are asexual, after all.

Rich.

Very.
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Sogan
Posts: 77
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11/22/2016 6:32:27 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:17:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Are potato chips atheists?

No.
Atheist: a person who disbelieves, or lacks belief in the existence of god or gods (oxford dictionary of English)
Notice the important word there is person.
Are people who neither believe nor disbelieve in God atheists?

Yes as stated above. Disbelief or the lack of belief makes a person an atheist. Lack of belief doesn't require belief in the negative.

If you hold the view that God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence do you think you have no burden of proof?

If the claim is made that god doesn't exist then yes, however being an atheist doesn't require one to hold this belief
Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?
No.