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tarantula
Posts: 854
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11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!
janesix
Posts: 3,446
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11/23/2016 8:40:47 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

Good question. But good luck on getting any christian to answer.
missmedic
Posts: 387
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11/23/2016 8:51:11 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

Moral of the story is don't go to a barbecue with zealot father.
dee-em
Posts: 6,456
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11/23/2016 10:05:24 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/23/2016 8:51:11 PM, missmedic wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

Moral of the story is don't go to a barbecue with zealot father.

Unless you knew that God is a practical joker.
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,078
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11/23/2016 10:17:32 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

That story is one of the most ingrained in my mind. I have yet to reconcile it, as I don't know that its within my capacity. I think, having never argued with the most powerful thing there is, I would tell God that if he wishes my son to die he has the power to do so, and I only have what it takes to protect them. In this day in age, if you have a direct line to the man up stairs I'm pretty sure you'd be just fine if you did whatever he told you to do.

One important thing to remember is that God does these "terrible" "immoral" killings he doesn't kill people as an ultimate sentence like so many see death. He takes them out, and then there is whatever afterlify thing is goin on. For that matter, God is the only one who actually knows what death is, and so morality is not something we as men can determine.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,078
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11/23/2016 10:30:15 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/23/2016 10:05:24 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/23/2016 8:51:11 PM, missmedic wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

Moral of the story is don't go to a barbecue with zealot father.

Unless you knew that God is a practical joker.

God: That's what I like to think. Hey, watch this human freak out when I tell him to sacrifice his child. Oh I'm gonna get him so good.....

Angel Bro: Nice

God: Oh my redundancy! He was actually gonna do it. Damn!

Angel Bro: Holy crap! How do you think his kid feels?

God: Oh yeah, better give him a reason so he can tell his kid why he would kill him

Angel: Why not just tell kids to respect their parents?

God: Too soon
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,078
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11/23/2016 10:35:04 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

The big question I like to ask for this story that just blows my mind, is that Christianity surrounds God sacrificing his child for us, and God is documented to ask a human if he would be willing to do it for him....One can only wonder what he was thinking.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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11/23/2016 10:53:20 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

So you have to understand the story in context. In the time of Abraham it was normal to sacrifice your male child to Baal for you to have good harvests for the rest of your life. Abraham would not have been surprised by the demand from God.

However, God was showing that His nature was different than the nature of the false gods that were worshipped in the area. He showed Abraham that he would provide the matter for the sacrifice. You should note that it was a male ram that was sacrificed and that it was caught in thorns.

Jesus died wearing a crown of thorns on the location where that ram was trapped. The place where the ram was sacrificed was the location of the temple in Jerusalem.
dee-em
Posts: 6,456
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11/24/2016 2:51:10 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/23/2016 10:53:20 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

So you have to understand the story in context. In the time of Abraham it was normal to sacrifice your male child to Baal for you to have good harvests for the rest of your life. Abraham would not have been surprised by the demand from God.

Doesn't work. God would have known too. Therefore he would know that the answer was going to be yes. That makes it not a true test, just a formality.

However, God was showing that His nature was different than the nature of the false gods that were worshipped in the area. He showed Abraham that he would provide the matter for the sacrifice. You should note that it was a male ram that was sacrificed and that it was caught in thorns.

Not much different if he damanded a sacrifice in the first place and he knew that Abraham would consent. That's more like a practical joke.

Jesus died wearing a crown of thorns on the location where that ram was trapped. The place where the ram was sacrificed was the location of the temple in Jerusalem.

Yeah, right.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,863
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11/24/2016 3:57:20 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/23/2016 10:53:20 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

So you have to understand the story in context. In the time of Abraham it was normal to sacrifice your male child to Baal for you to have good harvests for the rest of your life. Abraham would not have been surprised by the demand from God.

However, God was showing that His nature was different than the nature of the false gods that were worshipped in the area. He showed Abraham that he would provide the matter for the sacrifice. You should note that it was a male ram that was sacrificed and that it was caught in thorns.

Jesus died wearing a crown of thorns on the location where that ram was trapped. The place where the ram was sacrificed was the location of the temple in Jerusalem.
You don't honestly think some moron, umm atheist, knows the definition of context do you?
GrimlyF
Posts: 90
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11/24/2016 4:19:21 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/23/2016 10:05:24 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/23/2016 8:51:11 PM, missmedic wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

Moral of the story is don't go to a barbecue with zealot father.

Unless you knew that God is a practical joker.
Quote;" Everything is funny as long as it is happening to Somebody Else" Will Rogers :1879-1935.............Abraham was just Gods warm up patter.Moses and the Pharoah sketch was a real ribtickler and the killing of the firstborn sons?What a punchline!!!.Lets not forget Jericho where God shattered the walls and the Israelites butchered everyone in the city.That had them wetting their pants with laughter.My personal favourites are the Crusades. They made a great mini series on the Comedy Channel.Yes God is a great joker it's a pity his straight men change so often.
See the happy moron: he doesn't give a damn:I wish I were a moron:My God! perhaps I am!. Anonymous.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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11/24/2016 4:45:17 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/23/2016 10:17:32 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

That story is one of the most ingrained in my mind. I have yet to reconcile it, as I don't know that its within my capacity. I think, having never argued with the most powerful thing there is, I would tell God that if he wishes my son to die he has the power to do so, and I only have what it takes to protect them. In this day in age, if you have a direct line to the man up stairs I'm pretty sure you'd be just fine if you did whatever he told you to do.

One important thing to remember is that God does these "terrible" "immoral" killings he doesn't kill people as an ultimate sentence like so many see death. He takes them out, and then there is whatever afterlify thing is goin on. For that matter, God is the only one who actually knows what death is, and so morality is not something we as men can determine.

Have you ever considered that the Bible is a lie? How could one be confident in the truth unless they would at least really be prepared to ask that?
bulproof
Posts: 25,210
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11/24/2016 4:52:56 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/23/2016 10:53:20 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

So you have to understand the story in context. In the time of Abraham it was normal to sacrifice your male child to Baal for you to have good harvests for the rest of your life. Abraham would not have been surprised by the demand from God.
Got any evidence to support the Baal claim? I thought not.
No big deal, in context gods were always demanding child sacrifice so your god might as well join in. bahahahahahaha

Jesus died wearing a crown of thorns on the location where that ram was trapped. The place where the ram was sacrificed was the location of the temple in Jerusalem.
I know I'm pushing it, but have you got any evidence for this?
Just so you know Jesus wasn't strung up in the temple.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,078
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11/24/2016 5:48:17 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/24/2016 4:45:17 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 10:17:32 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

That story is one of the most ingrained in my mind. I have yet to reconcile it, as I don't know that its within my capacity. I think, having never argued with the most powerful thing there is, I would tell God that if he wishes my son to die he has the power to do so, and I only have what it takes to protect them. In this day in age, if you have a direct line to the man up stairs I'm pretty sure you'd be just fine if you did whatever he told you to do.

One important thing to remember is that God does these "terrible" "immoral" killings he doesn't kill people as an ultimate sentence like so many see death. He takes them out, and then there is whatever afterlify thing is goin on. For that matter, God is the only one who actually knows what death is, and so morality is not something we as men can determine.

Have you ever considered that the Bible is a lie? How could one be confident in the truth unless they would at least really be prepared to ask that?

Yes, in more ways then one. I'm not confident in my interpretation of a book that has been translated multiple times through institutions of known corruption, having a variety of versions, and is still somehow claimed to be the very word of God by imperfect authors, much of which I have yet to verify the authenticity of to this day. It takes a lot of work, and ultimately I just try to be a good person, or at least not a dick. Thinking about these stories helps me think about things I wouldn't otherwise and grow as a person overtime if nothing else. I'm definitely more of an Old Testament man myself.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
GrimlyF
Posts: 90
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11/24/2016 7:54:20 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/24/2016 4:45:17 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 10:17:32 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

That story is one of the most ingrained in my mind. I have yet to reconcile it, as I don't know that its within my capacity. I think, having never argued with the most powerful thing there is, I would tell God that if he wishes my son to die he has the power to do so, and I only have what it takes to protect them. In this day in age, if you have a direct line to the man up stairs I'm pretty sure you'd be just fine if you did whatever he told you to do.

One important thing to remember is that God does these "terrible" "immoral" killings he doesn't kill people as an ultimate sentence like so many see death. He takes them out, and then there is whatever afterlify thing is goin on. For that matter, God is the only one who actually knows what death is, and so morality is not something we as men can determine.

Have you ever considered that the Bible is a lie? How could one be confident in the truth unless they would at least really be prepared to ask that?
Quote:"The nearer the church the further from God" Bishop Lancelot Andrewes. 1555-1626........The Catholic Church has been "clarifying" and "interpreting" the Old Testament for a very long time and thats why we keep getting New Testaments.Not because of any lies in the original but because they would make it "easier to understand".There was a big kerfuffle over the word "bow"in a specific part of the Bible but that was the Catholics own fault.
See the happy moron: he doesn't give a damn:I wish I were a moron:My God! perhaps I am!. Anonymous.
Evidence
Posts: 843
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11/24/2016 7:59:53 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/23/2016 10:53:20 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

So you have to understand the story in context. In the time of Abraham it was normal to sacrifice your male child to Baal for you to have good harvests for the rest of your life. Abraham would not have been surprised by the demand from God.

However, God was showing that His nature was different than the nature of the false gods that were worshipped in the area. He showed Abraham that he would provide the matter for the sacrifice. You should note that it was a male ram that was sacrificed and that it was caught in thorns.

Jesus died wearing a crown of thorns on the location where that ram was trapped. The place where the ram was sacrificed was the location of the temple in Jerusalem.

+1
excellent answer, God bless you.
There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root. - Henry David Thoreau
bulproof
Posts: 25,210
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11/24/2016 10:29:08 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/24/2016 7:59:53 AM, Evidence wrote:
At 11/23/2016 10:53:20 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

So you have to understand the story in context. In the time of Abraham it was normal to sacrifice your male child to Baal for you to have good harvests for the rest of your life. Abraham would not have been surprised by the demand from God.

However, God was showing that His nature was different than the nature of the false gods that were worshipped in the area. He showed Abraham that he would provide the matter for the sacrifice. You should note that it was a male ram that was sacrificed and that it was caught in thorns.

Jesus died wearing a crown of thorns on the location where that ram was trapped. The place where the ram was sacrificed was the location of the temple in Jerusalem.

+1
excellent answer, God bless you.
Yes never worry about truth, just believe anything that is fabricated by long dead barbarians.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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11/24/2016 2:22:31 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

We know from abortion statistics many Christians are heeding God's request and having their fetuses aborted.

We also know what happens when Christians ignore those requests from God. They produce unwanted children by God like BOG, MCB, Bulproof, Masonicslayer etc, etc. To name a few.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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11/24/2016 2:23:22 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/24/2016 5:48:17 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/24/2016 4:45:17 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 10:17:32 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

That story is one of the most ingrained in my mind. I have yet to reconcile it, as I don't know that its within my capacity. I think, having never argued with the most powerful thing there is, I would tell God that if he wishes my son to die he has the power to do so, and I only have what it takes to protect them. In this day in age, if you have a direct line to the man up stairs I'm pretty sure you'd be just fine if you did whatever he told you to do.

One important thing to remember is that God does these "terrible" "immoral" killings he doesn't kill people as an ultimate sentence like so many see death. He takes them out, and then there is whatever afterlify thing is goin on. For that matter, God is the only one who actually knows what death is, and so morality is not something we as men can determine.

Have you ever considered that the Bible is a lie? How could one be confident in the truth unless they would at least really be prepared to ask that?

Yes, in more ways then one. I'm not confident in my interpretation of a book that has been translated multiple times through institutions of known corruption, having a variety of versions, and is still somehow claimed to be the very word of God by imperfect authors, much of which I have yet to verify the authenticity of to this day. It takes a lot of work, and ultimately I just try to be a good person, or at least not a dick. Thinking about these stories helps me think about things I wouldn't otherwise and grow as a person overtime if nothing else. I'm definitely more of an Old Testament man myself.

If your only concern is correct translation, why not be a Mormon? Their book is new enough that you can be sure there are no translation issues.

A book doesn't have to be true to be incorrectly translated BTW.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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11/24/2016 2:26:13 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/24/2016 7:54:20 AM, GrimlyF wrote:
At 11/24/2016 4:45:17 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 10:17:32 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

That story is one of the most ingrained in my mind. I have yet to reconcile it, as I don't know that its within my capacity. I think, having never argued with the most powerful thing there is, I would tell God that if he wishes my son to die he has the power to do so, and I only have what it takes to protect them. In this day in age, if you have a direct line to the man up stairs I'm pretty sure you'd be just fine if you did whatever he told you to do.

One important thing to remember is that God does these "terrible" "immoral" killings he doesn't kill people as an ultimate sentence like so many see death. He takes them out, and then there is whatever afterlify thing is goin on. For that matter, God is the only one who actually knows what death is, and so morality is not something we as men can determine.

Have you ever considered that the Bible is a lie? How could one be confident in the truth unless they would at least really be prepared to ask that?
Quote:"The nearer the church the further from God" Bishop Lancelot Andrewes. 1555-1626........The Catholic Church has been "clarifying" and "interpreting" the Old Testament for a very long time and thats why we keep getting New Testaments.Not because of any lies in the original but because they would make it "easier to understand".There was a big kerfuffle over the word "bow"in a specific part of the Bible but that was the Catholics own fault.

Are you saying that the Bible was initially true but is no longer accurate due to incorrect translation? If so, how do you know it was true to begin with?
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,078
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11/24/2016 2:39:19 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/24/2016 2:23:22 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/24/2016 5:48:17 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/24/2016 4:45:17 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 10:17:32 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

That story is one of the most ingrained in my mind. I have yet to reconcile it, as I don't know that its within my capacity. I think, having never argued with the most powerful thing there is, I would tell God that if he wishes my son to die he has the power to do so, and I only have what it takes to protect them. In this day in age, if you have a direct line to the man up stairs I'm pretty sure you'd be just fine if you did whatever he told you to do.

One important thing to remember is that God does these "terrible" "immoral" killings he doesn't kill people as an ultimate sentence like so many see death. He takes them out, and then there is whatever afterlify thing is goin on. For that matter, God is the only one who actually knows what death is, and so morality is not something we as men can determine.

Have you ever considered that the Bible is a lie? How could one be confident in the truth unless they would at least really be prepared to ask that?

Yes, in more ways then one. I'm not confident in my interpretation of a book that has been translated multiple times through institutions of known corruption, having a variety of versions, and is still somehow claimed to be the very word of God by imperfect authors, much of which I have yet to verify the authenticity of to this day. It takes a lot of work, and ultimately I just try to be a good person, or at least not a dick. Thinking about these stories helps me think about things I wouldn't otherwise and grow as a person overtime if nothing else. I'm definitely more of an Old Testament man myself.

If your only concern is correct translation, why not be a Mormon? Their book is new enough that you can be sure there are no translation issues.

A book doesn't have to be true to be incorrectly translated BTW.

I said nothing of the book's age. I don't think "newer is better" is something to live by. Your advice is noted.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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11/24/2016 3:41:26 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/24/2016 2:39:19 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/24/2016 2:23:22 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/24/2016 5:48:17 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/24/2016 4:45:17 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 10:17:32 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

That story is one of the most ingrained in my mind. I have yet to reconcile it, as I don't know that its within my capacity. I think, having never argued with the most powerful thing there is, I would tell God that if he wishes my son to die he has the power to do so, and I only have what it takes to protect them. In this day in age, if you have a direct line to the man up stairs I'm pretty sure you'd be just fine if you did whatever he told you to do.

One important thing to remember is that God does these "terrible" "immoral" killings he doesn't kill people as an ultimate sentence like so many see death. He takes them out, and then there is whatever afterlify thing is goin on. For that matter, God is the only one who actually knows what death is, and so morality is not something we as men can determine.

Have you ever considered that the Bible is a lie? How could one be confident in the truth unless they would at least really be prepared to ask that?

Yes, in more ways then one. I'm not confident in my interpretation of a book that has been translated multiple times through institutions of known corruption, having a variety of versions, and is still somehow claimed to be the very word of God by imperfect authors, much of which I have yet to verify the authenticity of to this day. It takes a lot of work, and ultimately I just try to be a good person, or at least not a dick. Thinking about these stories helps me think about things I wouldn't otherwise and grow as a person overtime if nothing else. I'm definitely more of an Old Testament man myself.

If your only concern is correct translation, why not be a Mormon? Their book is new enough that you can be sure there are no translation issues.

A book doesn't have to be true to be incorrectly translated BTW.

I said nothing of the book's age. I don't think "newer is better" is something to live by. Your advice is noted.

If a book is older, does it make the unsubstantiated claims more credible? Not sure if I see the connection between the age...
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,078
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11/24/2016 3:44:00 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/24/2016 3:41:26 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/24/2016 2:39:19 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/24/2016 2:23:22 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/24/2016 5:48:17 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/24/2016 4:45:17 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 10:17:32 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

That story is one of the most ingrained in my mind. I have yet to reconcile it, as I don't know that its within my capacity. I think, having never argued with the most powerful thing there is, I would tell God that if he wishes my son to die he has the power to do so, and I only have what it takes to protect them. In this day in age, if you have a direct line to the man up stairs I'm pretty sure you'd be just fine if you did whatever he told you to do.

One important thing to remember is that God does these "terrible" "immoral" killings he doesn't kill people as an ultimate sentence like so many see death. He takes them out, and then there is whatever afterlify thing is goin on. For that matter, God is the only one who actually knows what death is, and so morality is not something we as men can determine.

Have you ever considered that the Bible is a lie? How could one be confident in the truth unless they would at least really be prepared to ask that?

Yes, in more ways then one. I'm not confident in my interpretation of a book that has been translated multiple times through institutions of known corruption, having a variety of versions, and is still somehow claimed to be the very word of God by imperfect authors, much of which I have yet to verify the authenticity of to this day. It takes a lot of work, and ultimately I just try to be a good person, or at least not a dick. Thinking about these stories helps me think about things I wouldn't otherwise and grow as a person overtime if nothing else. I'm definitely more of an Old Testament man myself.

If your only concern is correct translation, why not be a Mormon? Their book is new enough that you can be sure there are no translation issues.

A book doesn't have to be true to be incorrectly translated BTW.

I said nothing of the book's age. I don't think "newer is better" is something to live by. Your advice is noted.

If a book is older, does it make the unsubstantiated claims more credible? Not sure if I see the connection between the age...

No, this should not have been implied. I've made no claims of age pertaining to anything.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
BrownL
Posts: 3
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11/24/2016 4:32:32 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

Hullo Spiderlady!

Yes, it's me.

Ultimately, Abraham didn't sacrifice his son.
Child sacrifice was extremely common at that time which is why Abraham appears to have been prepared to do it, albeit reluctantly.

The fact that God stopped Abraham from doing it illustrates that God wanted an end to human sacrifice.
Lyn: da B!
tarantula
Posts: 854
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11/24/2016 5:05:08 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/24/2016 4:32:32 PM, BrownL wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

Hullo Spiderlady!

Yes, it's me.

Ultimately, Abraham didn't sacrifice his son.
Child sacrifice was extremely common at that time which is why Abraham appears to have been prepared to do it, albeit reluctantly.

The fact that God stopped Abraham from doing it illustrates that God wanted an end to human sacrifice.

Welcome to the forum, have fun!
mrsatan
Posts: 418
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11/24/2016 5:50:59 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/23/2016 10:53:20 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

So you have to understand the story in context. In the time of Abraham it was normal to sacrifice your male child to Baal for you to have good harvests for the rest of your life. Abraham would not have been surprised by the demand from God.

However, God was showing that His nature was different than the nature of the false gods that were worshipped in the area. He showed Abraham that he would provide the matter for the sacrifice. You should note that it was a male ram that was sacrificed and that it was caught in thorns.

How is Gods nature any different in the story? He's still demanding a life be offered up to him. Doesn't biblical theology consider all life sacred? Does it make any significant difference whether that life is the mans' son or a goat?

On top of that, I'm currently under the impression that biblical theology places mankind as the protectors of the animal kingdom. Am I mistaken there? If not, wouldn't sacrificing the goat still be a failure on Abrahams part?
To say one has free will, to have chosen other than they did, is to say they have will over their will... Will over the will they have over their will... Will over the will they have over the will they have over their will, etc... It's utter nonsense.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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11/24/2016 6:43:27 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/24/2016 4:52:56 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/23/2016 10:53:20 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

So you have to understand the story in context. In the time of Abraham it was normal to sacrifice your male child to Baal for you to have good harvests for the rest of your life. Abraham would not have been surprised by the demand from God.
Got any evidence to support the Baal claim? I thought not.
No big deal, in context gods were always demanding child sacrifice so your god might as well join in. bahahahahahaha

Jesus died wearing a crown of thorns on the location where that ram was trapped. The place where the ram was sacrificed was the location of the temple in Jerusalem.
I know I'm pushing it, but have you got any evidence for this?
Just so you know Jesus wasn't strung up in the temple.

http://www.debate.org...
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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11/24/2016 6:53:04 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/24/2016 2:51:10 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/23/2016 10:53:20 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

So you have to understand the story in context. In the time of Abraham it was normal to sacrifice your male child to Baal for you to have good harvests for the rest of your life. Abraham would not have been surprised by the demand from God.

Doesn't work. God would have known too. Therefore he would know that the answer was going to be yes. That makes it not a true test, just a formality.

Of course God knew what would happen. That doesn't deny it in any way.

However, God was showing that His nature was different than the nature of the false gods that were worshipped in the area. He showed Abraham that he would provide the matter for the sacrifice. You should note that it was a male ram that was sacrificed and that it was caught in thorns.

Not much different if he damanded a sacrifice in the first place and he knew that Abraham would consent. That's more like a practical joke.

Of course God knew that Abraham would consent. He also knew that Abraham had great faith. By displaying this faith there was a lesson to Abraham, his family, the Jewish Nation and all mankind.

Jesus died wearing a crown of thorns on the location where that ram was trapped. The place where the ram was sacrificed was the location of the temple in Jerusalem.

Yeah, right.

Yup.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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11/24/2016 7:56:52 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/24/2016 5:50:59 PM, mrsatan wrote:
At 11/23/2016 10:53:20 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:00:36 AM, tarantula wrote:
As a devout Christian what if you had an experience which persuaded you god was asking you to sacrifice your child, would you obey that request? If not, why not?

Abraham was prepared to put his son through the trauma of sacrificing him all because he believed god was telling him to do so. What sort of father would do that? Surely any decent father would have told god to stick the request where the sun don't shine. In this day and age he would be prosecuted for even contemplating carrying out such a crime, and rightly so. Abraham should be vilified rather than treated as some sort of Biblical hero!

So you have to understand the story in context. In the time of Abraham it was normal to sacrifice your male child to Baal for you to have good harvests for the rest of your life. Abraham would not have been surprised by the demand from God.

However, God was showing that His nature was different than the nature of the false gods that were worshipped in the area. He showed Abraham that he would provide the matter for the sacrifice. You should note that it was a male ram that was sacrificed and that it was caught in thorns.

How is Gods nature any different in the story? He's still demanding a life be offered up to him. Doesn't biblical theology consider all life sacred? Does it make any significant difference whether that life is the mans' son or a goat?

Yes it does make a considerable difference whether it is a man or a goat.

On top of that, I'm currently under the impression that biblical theology places mankind as the protectors of the animal kingdom. Am I mistaken there? If not, wouldn't sacrificing the goat still be a failure on Abrahams part?

Mankind has dominion over the earth. It is our duty to justly use the resources of the planet. What greater use can there be than to offer back to God what he has given us?