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Maybe we're all angels who chose to be here

Benshapiro
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11/23/2016 9:27:47 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
Maybe we're fallen angels. Maybe we're angels who are trying to prove to God who we're truly doing God's will by our own free will.

People who've had deeply spiritual experiences (whether through coming back from clinical death or taking the most powerful psychedelics known to man -- such as DMT) all say that we don't "learn" anything. We merely remember.

If we're "remembering" and never learn anything "new" then we existed prior to being born.

It's an interesting thought.
Skeptical1
Posts: 698
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11/23/2016 9:35:39 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/23/2016 9:27:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Maybe we're fallen angels. Maybe we're angels who are trying to prove to God who we're truly doing God's will by our own free will.

People who've had deeply spiritual experiences (whether through coming back from clinical death or taking the most powerful psychedelics known to man -- such as DMT) all say that we don't "learn" anything. We merely remember.

If we're "remembering" and never learn anything "new" then we existed prior to being born.

It's an interesting thought.

Why should the thoughts of someone whose brain is desperately hanging on to life or freewheeling on some toxic mix of chemicals receive any special consideration? Why should they be considered "spiritual"?

I "remember" Occam's razor.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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11/23/2016 9:40:53 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/23/2016 9:35:39 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:27:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Maybe we're fallen angels. Maybe we're angels who are trying to prove to God who we're truly doing God's will by our own free will.

People who've had deeply spiritual experiences (whether through coming back from clinical death or taking the most powerful psychedelics known to man -- such as DMT) all say that we don't "learn" anything. We merely remember.

If we're "remembering" and never learn anything "new" then we existed prior to being born.

It's an interesting thought.

Why should the thoughts of someone whose brain is desperately hanging on to life or freewheeling on some toxic mix of chemicals receive any special consideration? Why should they be considered "spiritual"?

I "remember" Occam's razor.

Haha. Well you should be asking yourself why information rich experiences occur at their highest peaks when the brain is functioning at its lowest possible point.
Skeptical1
Posts: 698
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11/23/2016 9:45:08 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/23/2016 9:40:53 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:35:39 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:27:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Maybe we're fallen angels. Maybe we're angels who are trying to prove to God who we're truly doing God's will by our own free will.

People who've had deeply spiritual experiences (whether through coming back from clinical death or taking the most powerful psychedelics known to man -- such as DMT) all say that we don't "learn" anything. We merely remember.

If we're "remembering" and never learn anything "new" then we existed prior to being born.

It's an interesting thought.

Why should the thoughts of someone whose brain is desperately hanging on to life or freewheeling on some toxic mix of chemicals receive any special consideration? Why should they be considered "spiritual"?

I "remember" Occam's razor.

Haha. Well you should be asking yourself why information rich experiences occur at their highest peaks when the brain is functioning at its lowest possible point.

The explanation I have heard is that it is desperately seeking ways to make sense of what is going on, and a solution to allow its own survival, so it goes into overdrive. What's your explanation?
Osmium
Posts: 78
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11/23/2016 9:46:00 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/23/2016 9:40:53 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:35:39 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:27:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Maybe we're fallen angels. Maybe we're angels who are trying to prove to God who we're truly doing God's will by our own free will.

People who've had deeply spiritual experiences (whether through coming back from clinical death or taking the most powerful psychedelics known to man -- such as DMT) all say that we don't "learn" anything. We merely remember.

If we're "remembering" and never learn anything "new" then we existed prior to being born.

It's an interesting thought.

Why should the thoughts of someone whose brain is desperately hanging on to life or freewheeling on some toxic mix of chemicals receive any special consideration? Why should they be considered "spiritual"?

I "remember" Occam's razor.

Haha. Well you should be asking yourself why information rich experiences occur at their highest peaks when the brain is functioning at its lowest possible point.

I don't follow this statement. If you will, please elaborate.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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11/23/2016 9:47:12 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/23/2016 9:45:08 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:40:53 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:35:39 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:27:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Maybe we're fallen angels. Maybe we're angels who are trying to prove to God who we're truly doing God's will by our own free will.

People who've had deeply spiritual experiences (whether through coming back from clinical death or taking the most powerful psychedelics known to man -- such as DMT) all say that we don't "learn" anything. We merely remember.

If we're "remembering" and never learn anything "new" then we existed prior to being born.

It's an interesting thought.

Why should the thoughts of someone whose brain is desperately hanging on to life or freewheeling on some toxic mix of chemicals receive any special consideration? Why should they be considered "spiritual"?

I "remember" Occam's razor.

Haha. Well you should be asking yourself why information rich experiences occur at their highest peaks when the brain is functioning at its lowest possible point.

The explanation I have heard is that it is desperately seeking ways to make sense of what is going on, and a solution to allow its own survival, so it goes into overdrive. What's your explanation?

Why is that explanation more probable than any other explanation? Evolution? Evolution is a mindless process. It does not "explain" anything. It has no motives, goals, ends, intent, or knowledge.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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11/23/2016 9:47:47 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/23/2016 9:46:00 PM, Osmium wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:40:53 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:35:39 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:27:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Maybe we're fallen angels. Maybe we're angels who are trying to prove to God who we're truly doing God's will by our own free will.

People who've had deeply spiritual experiences (whether through coming back from clinical death or taking the most powerful psychedelics known to man -- such as DMT) all say that we don't "learn" anything. We merely remember.

If we're "remembering" and never learn anything "new" then we existed prior to being born.

It's an interesting thought.

Why should the thoughts of someone whose brain is desperately hanging on to life or freewheeling on some toxic mix of chemicals receive any special consideration? Why should they be considered "spiritual"?

I "remember" Occam's razor.

Haha. Well you should be asking yourself why information rich experiences occur at their highest peaks when the brain is functioning at its lowest possible point.

I don't follow this statement. If you will, please elaborate.

Have you ever used any kind of drug?
Geogeer
Posts: 4,286
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11/23/2016 9:48:22 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/23/2016 9:27:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Maybe we're fallen angels. Maybe we're angels who are trying to prove to God who we're truly doing God's will by our own free will.

1. That would change our nature.

2. Why would there even be a physical realm?

3. It doesn't really make sense.

People who've had deeply spiritual experiences (whether through coming back from clinical death or taking the most powerful psychedelics known to man -- such as DMT) all say that we don't "learn" anything. We merely remember.

That assumes that those are not false impressions from a misinformed mind.

If we're "remembering" and never learn anything "new" then we existed prior to being born.

Assuming you're right (and that is a pretty major assumption), one could alternatively say that knowledge gained by this means would seem to be remembered because the brain has no antecedent to it. Thus it simply interprets it in the same manner as a memory.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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11/23/2016 9:50:21 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/23/2016 9:48:22 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:27:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Maybe we're fallen angels. Maybe we're angels who are trying to prove to God who we're truly doing God's will by our own free will.

1. That would change our nature.

What do you mean?

2. Why would there even be a physical realm?

What do you mean by "physical?"

3. It doesn't really make sense.

In what way?

People who've had deeply spiritual experiences (whether through coming back from clinical death or taking the most powerful psychedelics known to man -- such as DMT) all say that we don't "learn" anything. We merely remember.

That assumes that those are not false impressions from a misinformed mind.

Are you denying the reality of their experiences? Or the explanation for which their experiences were caused by?

If we're "remembering" and never learn anything "new" then we existed prior to being born.

Assuming you're right (and that is a pretty major assumption), one could alternatively say that knowledge gained by this means would seem to be remembered because the brain has no antecedent to it. Thus it simply interprets it in the same manner as a memory.

Can you explain what you mean in more detail?
Skeptical1
Posts: 698
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11/23/2016 9:52:55 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/23/2016 9:47:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:45:08 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:40:53 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:35:39 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:27:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Maybe we're fallen angels. Maybe we're angels who are trying to prove to God who we're truly doing God's will by our own free will.

People who've had deeply spiritual experiences (whether through coming back from clinical death or taking the most powerful psychedelics known to man -- such as DMT) all say that we don't "learn" anything. We merely remember.

If we're "remembering" and never learn anything "new" then we existed prior to being born.

It's an interesting thought.

Why should the thoughts of someone whose brain is desperately hanging on to life or freewheeling on some toxic mix of chemicals receive any special consideration? Why should they be considered "spiritual"?

I "remember" Occam's razor.

Haha. Well you should be asking yourself why information rich experiences occur at their highest peaks when the brain is functioning at its lowest possible point.

The explanation I have heard is that it is desperately seeking ways to make sense of what is going on, and a solution to allow its own survival, so it goes into overdrive. What's your explanation?

Why is that explanation more probable than any other explanation? Evolution?

How did evolution get into the discussion?

Evolution is a mindless process. It does not "explain" anything. It has no motives, goals, ends, intent, or knowledge.

Undisputed. What's the relevance?
Osmium
Posts: 78
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11/23/2016 9:57:55 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/23/2016 9:47:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:46:00 PM, Osmium wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:40:53 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:35:39 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:27:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Maybe we're fallen angels. Maybe we're angels who are trying to prove to God who we're truly doing God's will by our own free will.

People who've had deeply spiritual experiences (whether through coming back from clinical death or taking the most powerful psychedelics known to man -- such as DMT) all say that we don't "learn" anything. We merely remember.

If we're "remembering" and never learn anything "new" then we existed prior to being born.

It's an interesting thought.

Why should the thoughts of someone whose brain is desperately hanging on to life or freewheeling on some toxic mix of chemicals receive any special consideration? Why should they be considered "spiritual"?

I "remember" Occam's razor.

Haha. Well you should be asking yourself why information rich experiences occur at their highest peaks when the brain is functioning at its lowest possible point.

I don't follow this statement. If you will, please elaborate.

Have you ever used any kind of drug?

Not really, no. Speaking of drugs, I almost asked you what you're on. But the decided not to because that would have been rude.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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11/23/2016 9:58:26 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/23/2016 9:52:55 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:47:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:45:08 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:40:53 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:35:39 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:27:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Maybe we're fallen angels. Maybe we're angels who are trying to prove to God who we're truly doing God's will by our own free will.

People who've had deeply spiritual experiences (whether through coming back from clinical death or taking the most powerful psychedelics known to man -- such as DMT) all say that we don't "learn" anything. We merely remember.

If we're "remembering" and never learn anything "new" then we existed prior to being born.

It's an interesting thought.

Why should the thoughts of someone whose brain is desperately hanging on to life or freewheeling on some toxic mix of chemicals receive any special consideration? Why should they be considered "spiritual"?

I "remember" Occam's razor.

Haha. Well you should be asking yourself why information rich experiences occur at their highest peaks when the brain is functioning at its lowest possible point.

The explanation I have heard is that it is desperately seeking ways to make sense of what is going on, and a solution to allow its own survival, so it goes into overdrive. What's your explanation?

Why is that explanation more probable than any other explanation? Evolution?

How did evolution get into the discussion?

Evolution is a mindless process. It does not "explain" anything. It has no motives, goals, ends, intent, or knowledge.

Undisputed. What's the relevance?

Why would the brain seek a solution to its own survival?
Geogeer
Posts: 4,286
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11/23/2016 10:04:49 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/23/2016 9:50:21 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:48:22 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:27:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Maybe we're fallen angels. Maybe we're angels who are trying to prove to God who we're truly doing God's will by our own free will.

1. That would change our nature.

What do you mean?

Angels are creatures of pure spirit (will). Thus they are not temporal like us. When they make a decision they cannot change it because they fully understand the consequences prior to making it. Those of us who are spirit and matter can change our choices because we have imperfect wills and imperfect knowledge.

To go from one being to the other changes the very nature of what God made. This would go against God's nature.

2. Why would there even be a physical realm?

What do you mean by "physical?"

The physical universe. Angels do not have physical bodies.

3. It doesn't really make sense.

In what way?

See above for the initial explanation.

People who've had deeply spiritual experiences (whether through coming back from clinical death or taking the most powerful psychedelics known to man -- such as DMT) all say that we don't "learn" anything. We merely remember.

That assumes that those are not false impressions from a misinformed mind.

Are you denying the reality of their experiences? Or the explanation for which their experiences were caused by?

If I see pink elephants when I'm drunk, I don't presume to believe that pink elephants exist. Near death experiences and psychedelic drugs cause alterations in the very operation of the brain. It is quite possible for the subconscious and deep memories to be made present in the conscious leaving the impression of forgotten memories.

If we're "remembering" and never learn anything "new" then we existed prior to being born.

Assuming you're right (and that is a pretty major assumption), one could alternatively say that knowledge gained by this means would seem to be remembered because the brain has no antecedent to it. Thus it simply interprets it in the same manner as a memory.

Can you explain what you mean in more detail?

If I could instantly insert the knowledge of my favorite recipe for a lemon bundt cake into your memory how would your mind perceive it? Would it perceive it as having just learned it, or would it perceive it as an existing memory that can be drawn upon? Given that this is not the way that the brain is designed to learn, I suspect it would seem to be a memory.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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11/23/2016 10:05:58 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/23/2016 9:57:55 PM, Osmium wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:47:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:46:00 PM, Osmium wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:40:53 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:35:39 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:27:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Maybe we're fallen angels. Maybe we're angels who are trying to prove to God who we're truly doing God's will by our own free will.

People who've had deeply spiritual experiences (whether through coming back from clinical death or taking the most powerful psychedelics known to man -- such as DMT) all say that we don't "learn" anything. We merely remember.

If we're "remembering" and never learn anything "new" then we existed prior to being born.

It's an interesting thought.

Why should the thoughts of someone whose brain is desperately hanging on to life or freewheeling on some toxic mix of chemicals receive any special consideration? Why should they be considered "spiritual"?

I "remember" Occam's razor.

Haha. Well you should be asking yourself why information rich experiences occur at their highest peaks when the brain is functioning at its lowest possible point.

I don't follow this statement. If you will, please elaborate.

Have you ever used any kind of drug?

Not really, no. Speaking of drugs, I almost asked you what you're on. But the decided not to because that would have been rude.

Well, people who use powerful drugs describe having conscious experiences which are more "real" than what they typically experience. It's kind of a moot point if you have no idea what I'm talking about.
Skeptical1
Posts: 698
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11/23/2016 10:07:53 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/23/2016 9:58:26 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:52:55 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:47:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:45:08 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:40:53 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:35:39 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:27:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Maybe we're fallen angels. Maybe we're angels who are trying to prove to God who we're truly doing God's will by our own free will.

People who've had deeply spiritual experiences (whether through coming back from clinical death or taking the most powerful psychedelics known to man -- such as DMT) all say that we don't "learn" anything. We merely remember.

If we're "remembering" and never learn anything "new" then we existed prior to being born.

It's an interesting thought.

Why should the thoughts of someone whose brain is desperately hanging on to life or freewheeling on some toxic mix of chemicals receive any special consideration? Why should they be considered "spiritual"?

I "remember" Occam's razor.

Haha. Well you should be asking yourself why information rich experiences occur at their highest peaks when the brain is functioning at its lowest possible point.

The explanation I have heard is that it is desperately seeking ways to make sense of what is going on, and a solution to allow its own survival, so it goes into overdrive. What's your explanation?

Why is that explanation more probable than any other explanation? Evolution?

How did evolution get into the discussion?

Evolution is a mindless process. It does not "explain" anything. It has no motives, goals, ends, intent, or knowledge.

Undisputed. What's the relevance?

Why would the brain seek a solution to its own survival?

I don't know why it would. In so far as I know, evolution doesn't provide any explanation of why it should. But clearly, it does. This is evident in the "fight or flight" response, physiological changes in the body when under threat, and so forth. Observation tells us almost without exception, organisms will choose to live rather than not.

Why would some "higher intelligence" within whose mind our lives are being played out care about our survival?
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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11/23/2016 10:15:58 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/23/2016 10:04:49 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:50:21 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:48:22 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:27:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Maybe we're fallen angels. Maybe we're angels who are trying to prove to God who we're truly doing God's will by our own free will.

1. That would change our nature.

What do you mean?

Angels are creatures of pure spirit (will). Thus they are not temporal like us. When they make a decision they cannot change it because they fully understand the consequences prior to making it. Those of us who are spirit and matter can change our choices because we have imperfect wills and imperfect knowledge.

To go from one being to the other changes the very nature of what God made. This would go against God's nature.

Assuming you're Christian, are you disputing that there were fallen angels?

2. Why would there even be a physical realm?

What do you mean by "physical?"

The physical universe. Angels do not have physical bodies.

Neither do we, in the generally conceived sense of "physical."

3. It doesn't really make sense.

In what way?

See above for the initial explanation.

People who've had deeply spiritual experiences (whether through coming back from clinical death or taking the most powerful psychedelics known to man -- such as DMT) all say that we don't "learn" anything. We merely remember.

That assumes that those are not false impressions from a misinformed mind.

Are you denying the reality of their experiences? Or the explanation for which their experiences were caused by?

If I see pink elephants when I'm drunk, I don't presume to believe that pink elephants exist. Near death experiences and psychedelic drugs cause alterations in the very operation of the brain. It is quite possible for the subconscious and deep memories to be made present in the conscious leaving the impression of forgotten memories.

What we perceive demonstrably does not exist. Colors do not really exist. An "alteration" assumes that what was perceived prior is the true reality but in reality, things don't really have reality.

If we're "remembering" and never learn anything "new" then we existed prior to being born.

Assuming you're right (and that is a pretty major assumption), one could alternatively say that knowledge gained by this means would seem to be remembered because the brain has no antecedent to it. Thus it simply interprets it in the same manner as a memory.

Can you explain what you mean in more detail?

If I could instantly insert the knowledge of my favorite recipe for a lemon bundt cake into your memory how would your mind perceive it? Would it perceive it as having just learned it, or would it perceive it as an existing memory that can be drawn upon? Given that this is not the way that the brain is designed to learn, I suspect it would seem to be a memory.

As a new memory, unless I was on drugs apparently.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,286
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11/23/2016 10:42:17 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/23/2016 10:15:58 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/23/2016 10:04:49 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:50:21 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:48:22 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/23/2016 9:27:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Maybe we're fallen angels. Maybe we're angels who are trying to prove to God who we're truly doing God's will by our own free will.

1. That would change our nature.

What do you mean?

Angels are creatures of pure spirit (will). Thus they are not temporal like us. When they make a decision they cannot change it because they fully understand the consequences prior to making it. Those of us who are spirit and matter can change our choices because we have imperfect wills and imperfect knowledge.

To go from one being to the other changes the very nature of what God made. This would go against God's nature.

Assuming you're Christian, are you disputing that there were fallen angels?

Not at all. They were beings of pure spirit before the fall, they remain beings of pure spirit after.

2. Why would there even be a physical realm?

What do you mean by "physical?"

The physical universe. Angels do not have physical bodies.

Neither do we, in the generally conceived sense of "physical."

I'll remember that the next time I step on the kid's lego in the middle of the night...

We have bodies - they are made of matter.

3. It doesn't really make sense.

In what way?

See above for the initial explanation.

People who've had deeply spiritual experiences (whether through coming back from clinical death or taking the most powerful psychedelics known to man -- such as DMT) all say that we don't "learn" anything. We merely remember.

That assumes that those are not false impressions from a misinformed mind.

Are you denying the reality of their experiences? Or the explanation for which their experiences were caused by?

If I see pink elephants when I'm drunk, I don't presume to believe that pink elephants exist. Near death experiences and psychedelic drugs cause alterations in the very operation of the brain. It is quite possible for the subconscious and deep memories to be made present in the conscious leaving the impression of forgotten memories.

What we perceive demonstrably does not exist. Colors do not really exist. An "alteration" assumes that what was perceived prior is the true reality but in reality, things don't really have reality.

Colours do exist in the sense that they are a perception of the radiative or reflective qualities of objects subjected to electromagnetic radiation of a certain range.

Lol. Now reality doesn't exist.

If we're "remembering" and never learn anything "new" then we existed prior to being born.

Assuming you're right (and that is a pretty major assumption), one could alternatively say that knowledge gained by this means would seem to be remembered because the brain has no antecedent to it. Thus it simply interprets it in the same manner as a memory.

Can you explain what you mean in more detail?

If I could instantly insert the knowledge of my favorite recipe for a lemon bundt cake into your memory how would your mind perceive it? Would it perceive it as having just learned it, or would it perceive it as an existing memory that can be drawn upon? Given that this is not the way that the brain is designed to learn, I suspect it would seem to be a memory.

As a new memory, unless I was on drugs apparently.

Are you sure? And given that you are not used to learning in this manner the brain may interpret the sudden appearance as a memory coming to mind.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,011
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11/23/2016 10:52:52 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/23/2016 9:27:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Maybe we're fallen angels. Maybe we're angels who are trying to prove to God who we're truly doing God's will by our own free will.

People who've had deeply spiritual experiences (whether through coming back from clinical death or taking the most powerful psychedelics known to man -- such as DMT) all say that we don't "learn" anything. We merely remember.

If we're "remembering" and never learn anything "new" then we existed prior to being born.

It's an interesting thought.

Christians not only remember their old sins, they even learn new ways to sin. That is how they stay ahead of the spiritualist.
mrsatan
Posts: 429
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11/24/2016 6:43:15 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/23/2016 9:27:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Maybe we're fallen angels. Maybe we're angels who are trying to prove to God who we're truly doing God's will by our own free will.

People who've had deeply spiritual experiences (whether through coming back from clinical death or taking the most powerful psychedelics known to man -- such as DMT) all say that we don't "learn" anything. We merely remember.

If we're "remembering" and never learn anything "new" then we existed prior to being born.

It's an interesting thought.

All people who've had "deeply spiritual" experiences (what makes an experience spiritual rather than just an experience?) say we don't learn things? That's quite the bold claim.

I know a handful of people who've done LSD. I've talked to some of them pretty extensively about it, as I'm curious about trying it myself, and not one of them has said anything remotely close to that.

Anyways, I have considered the possibility of having chose to be a part of this reality. That we come here to gain an understanding of what life is like without God. If I had to guess, with the assumption that there is a God, I would say that's why we're here. Although, I've come to believe free will, at least in the sense I think you mean it, is incompatible with creationism. Ergo, I wouldn't say we're here having chosen of our own free will. More so that we were sent here to gain that understanding, for how else could one truly appreciate the splendor that eternal bliss would be?

Nothing more than conjecture, of course. It's interesting to ponder the very essence of existence, because there is no end to the possibilities.
To say one has free will, to have chosen other than they did, is to say they have will over their will... Will over the will they have over their will... Will over the will they have over the will they have over their will, etc... It's utter nonsense.