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Question for Theists

matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?
uncung
Posts: 3,468
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11/24/2016 4:48:42 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

who are xenu and thetans you talk about? never heard them.
Willows
Posts: 2,084
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11/24/2016 1:27:05 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

I'll just beat them to the draw.......

"Because there is only one God"
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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11/24/2016 2:18:45 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/24/2016 4:48:42 AM, uncung wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

who are xenu and thetans you talk about? never heard them.

Here is a link explaining Xenu: https://en.wikipedia.org...

What would you say to a scientologist to convince them Xenu doesn't exist?

You're going to tell him he's wrong and he will tell you you're wrong. You both have equally invalid evidence so what logic would you use that couldn't be used against you?
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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11/24/2016 2:20:56 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/24/2016 1:27:05 PM, Willows wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

I'll just beat them to the draw.......

"Because there is only one God"

Yeah, I suspect that few theists will respond. I doubt they see how that question could have any relevance to their own religion.
uncung
Posts: 3,468
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11/24/2016 2:21:53 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/24/2016 2:18:45 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/24/2016 4:48:42 AM, uncung wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

who are xenu and thetans you talk about? never heard them.

Here is a link explaining Xenu: https://en.wikipedia.org...

What would you say to a scientologist to convince them Xenu doesn't exist?

You're going to tell him he's wrong and he will tell you you're wrong. You both have equally invalid evidence so what logic would you use that couldn't be used against you?

I do believe Xenu and who is again? Thetans, exist if they were real.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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11/24/2016 2:30:16 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/24/2016 2:21:53 PM, uncung wrote:
At 11/24/2016 2:18:45 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/24/2016 4:48:42 AM, uncung wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

who are xenu and thetans you talk about? never heard them.

Here is a link explaining Xenu: https://en.wikipedia.org...

What would you say to a scientologist to convince them Xenu doesn't exist?

You're going to tell him he's wrong and he will tell you you're wrong. You both have equally invalid evidence so what logic would you use that couldn't be used against you?

I do believe Xenu and who is again?

Can you rephrase the question?

Thetans, exist if they were real.

Yes, anything exists if it exists. Conversely, if it does not exist, it does not exist. Sounds like we agree on that.

A Scientologist would say that winged horses that people can fly on would exist if they were real.
uncung
Posts: 3,468
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11/24/2016 2:42:38 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/24/2016 2:30:16 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/24/2016 2:21:53 PM, uncung wrote:
At 11/24/2016 2:18:45 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/24/2016 4:48:42 AM, uncung wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

who are xenu and thetans you talk about? never heard them.

Here is a link explaining Xenu: https://en.wikipedia.org...

What would you say to a scientologist to convince them Xenu doesn't exist?

You're going to tell him he's wrong and he will tell you you're wrong. You both have equally invalid evidence so what logic would you use that couldn't be used against you?

I do believe Xenu and who is again?

Can you rephrase the question?

Thetans, exist if they were real.

Yes, anything exists if it exists. Conversely, if it does not exist, it does not exist. Sounds like we agree on that.

A Scientologist would say that winged horses that people can fly on would exist if they were real.

If they able to prove xenu and thetans existed then I would believe in them. it is what i mean. it is not my task to prove their existence.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,385
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11/24/2016 2:53:24 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/24/2016 2:18:45 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/24/2016 4:48:42 AM, uncung wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

who are xenu and thetans you talk about? never heard them.

Here is a link explaining Xenu: https://en.wikipedia.org...

What would you say to a scientologist to convince them Xenu doesn't exist?

You're going to tell him he's wrong and he will tell you you're wrong. You both have equally invalid evidence so what logic would you use that couldn't be used against you?
This isn't much different than UFOlogy.

This isn't really even the same thing as, say, convincing a Muslim that Allah doesn't exist (Although Allah simply means "God", so that's disputable as well), or to a Hindu that Vishnu doesn't exist.

However, a common theme here is that Xenu is simply an alleged personality that is to be believed via hearsay. Jesus Christ is not only projected as being alive, but a deity than one can literally find out for themselves whether or not He exists. The challenge is not to have a personal relationship with Xenu, but it is with Jesus Christ. And this is typical with not only alleged extraterrestrial personalities, but gods of other religions being based on a proclamation from an individual(s), usually an historic non-contemporary prophet, seer, channeler, etc.
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,165
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11/24/2016 3:27:50 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

Nothing. They can do what they want.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Silly_Billy
Posts: 656
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11/24/2016 3:31:54 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

Well... considering that Scientology is a religion based on profits with attitudes that reflect earning as much profit as possible, i would simply pay the Scientology powers to be to change their opinion. Once the Scientology powers to be to say that Xenu and Thetans don't exist, their followers should automatically follow.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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11/24/2016 3:42:02 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/24/2016 2:42:38 PM, uncung wrote:
At 11/24/2016 2:30:16 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/24/2016 2:21:53 PM, uncung wrote:
At 11/24/2016 2:18:45 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/24/2016 4:48:42 AM, uncung wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

who are xenu and thetans you talk about? never heard them.

Here is a link explaining Xenu: https://en.wikipedia.org...

What would you say to a scientologist to convince them Xenu doesn't exist?

You're going to tell him he's wrong and he will tell you you're wrong. You both have equally invalid evidence so what logic would you use that couldn't be used against you?

I do believe Xenu and who is again?

Can you rephrase the question?

Thetans, exist if they were real.

Yes, anything exists if it exists. Conversely, if it does not exist, it does not exist. Sounds like we agree on that.

A Scientologist would say that winged horses that people can fly on would exist if they were real.

If they able to prove xenu and thetans existed then I would believe in them. it is what i mean. it is not my task to prove their existence.

Can you prove someone can fly on a horse with wings?
uncung
Posts: 3,468
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11/24/2016 4:05:48 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/24/2016 3:42:02 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/24/2016 2:42:38 PM, uncung wrote:
At 11/24/2016 2:30:16 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/24/2016 2:21:53 PM, uncung wrote:
At 11/24/2016 2:18:45 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/24/2016 4:48:42 AM, uncung wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

who are xenu and thetans you talk about? never heard them.

Here is a link explaining Xenu: https://en.wikipedia.org...

What would you say to a scientologist to convince them Xenu doesn't exist?

You're going to tell him he's wrong and he will tell you you're wrong. You both have equally invalid evidence so what logic would you use that couldn't be used against you?

I do believe Xenu and who is again?

Can you rephrase the question?

Thetans, exist if they were real.

Yes, anything exists if it exists. Conversely, if it does not exist, it does not exist. Sounds like we agree on that.

A Scientologist would say that winged horses that people can fly on would exist if they were real.

If they able to prove xenu and thetans existed then I would believe in them. it is what i mean. it is not my task to prove their existence.

Can you prove someone can fly on a horse with wings?

I can't.
fishhunter61
Posts: 113
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11/25/2016 6:28:54 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?
I would show them Leah Remini's upcoming anti-Scientology documentary.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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11/25/2016 7:06:32 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

I would say "you can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into."
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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11/25/2016 7:15:14 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/25/2016 7:06:32 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

I would say "you can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into."

Do you believe in big foot Ben ?
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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11/25/2016 7:17:19 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/25/2016 7:15:14 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 11/25/2016 7:06:32 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

I would say "you can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into."

Do you believe in big foot Ben ?

Define big foot. I have pretty big feet.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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11/25/2016 7:20:04 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/25/2016 7:17:19 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/25/2016 7:15:14 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 11/25/2016 7:06:32 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

I would say "you can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into."

Do you believe in big foot Ben ?

Define big foot. I have pretty big feet.

I'll give it a miss.
Good game .
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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11/25/2016 7:29:58 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/25/2016 7:20:04 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 11/25/2016 7:17:19 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/25/2016 7:15:14 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 11/25/2016 7:06:32 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

I would say "you can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into."

Do you believe in big foot Ben ?

Define big foot. I have pretty big feet.

I'll give it a miss.
Good game .

Try a different example.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,765
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11/25/2016 8:56:49 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

Response: Valid proof is based on observable testable evidence and deductive logic based on such evidence. For example, if I dribble a ball and it bounces firsthand, (observable evidence), then I can deduce logically that if you dribble the ball, it will bounce as well, whether I see you do it or not.

We apply the same for Xenu and Thetans. What deductive logic that can be deduced from observable, testable evidence do you have to prove they exist? Answer....none.

Whereas, we have deductive logic based on observable evidence that proves the Qur'an is the true word of Allah in the following:

Proof that the Qur'an is the true word of Allah

Hypothesis: There is no error or indecency in the Qur'an and it is a guidance to righteousness

Test subject : You

Experiment: Find one error, indecency or guide to unrighteous behavior in the Qur'an

Conclusion: You failed:

Since there is no error or indecency in the Qur'an, then the only logical conclusion that can be derived is that whomever is the author of the Qur"an, the individual is a truth teller and righteous because all of the content in the Qur"an is without error, indecency, and immorality, and it is a guidance to righteousness. The question still remains as to who is the author? This is discovered from the next test.

Hypothesis: "It is humanly impossible for a person/s to inspire enough followers to help him/her/ them conquer and rule a nation by using human-made speech/literature that goes against the likes and beliefs of those people."


Test Subject: You

Experiment: Try to inspire enough followers to help you conquer and rule just the street you live on by using human-made speech/literature that goes against the liking of the people

Conclusion: You failed

Thus the challenge provides a hands on-eyewitness account that inspiring enough followers to help him/her conquer and rule a nation, or just the street you live on, by using human-made speech/literature that goes against what the people want is humanly impossible, because anyone who takes the challenge will fail and not come close to answering it. And since it is clearly humanly impossible to use human-made speech/literature to achieve the act, then that means that the Qur'an that Muhammad used to inspire enough followers to help him conquer and rule a nation was not the invention of any human/s, but from one who has greater power and authority than humans, and that is Allah.
Archaholic
Posts: 265
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11/26/2016 1:48:10 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

If I were a theist, I would avoid to convince them. It is like a christian trying to convince a muslim that Allah is a false god. It is nonsense.

BR
Hiu
Posts: 1,015
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11/26/2016 1:54:56 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

Personally I have no energy to prove someone else's beliefs are wrong. I just like to listen to what others believe.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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11/26/2016 2:48:22 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/25/2016 7:06:32 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

I would say "you can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into."

You could say the same thing about young earth creationists. Do you agree?
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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11/26/2016 2:49:44 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/24/2016 2:53:24 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 11/24/2016 2:18:45 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/24/2016 4:48:42 AM, uncung wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

who are xenu and thetans you talk about? never heard them.

Here is a link explaining Xenu: https://en.wikipedia.org...

What would you say to a scientologist to convince them Xenu doesn't exist?

You're going to tell him he's wrong and he will tell you you're wrong. You both have equally invalid evidence so what logic would you use that couldn't be used against you?
This isn't much different than UFOlogy.

This isn't really even the same thing as, say, convincing a Muslim that Allah doesn't exist (Although Allah simply means "God", so that's disputable as well), or to a Hindu that Vishnu doesn't exist.

However, a common theme here is that Xenu is simply an alleged personality that is to be believed via hearsay. Jesus Christ is not only projected as being alive, but a deity than one can literally find out for themselves whether or not He exists. The challenge is not to have a personal relationship with Xenu, but it is with Jesus Christ. And this is typical with not only alleged extraterrestrial personalities, but gods of other religions being based on a proclamation from an individual(s), usually an historic non-contemporary prophet, seer, channeler, etc.

Why Jesus Christ? Why not Allah?
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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11/26/2016 3:10:50 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/25/2016 8:56:49 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

Response: Valid proof is based on observable testable evidence and deductive logic based on such evidence. For example, if I dribble a ball and it bounces firsthand, (observable evidence), then I can deduce logically that if you dribble the ball, it will bounce as well, whether I see you do it or not.

Do you believe your prophet flew on a winged horse?


We apply the same for Xenu and Thetans. What deductive logic that can be deduced from observable, testable evidence do you have to prove they exist? Answer....none.

Whereas, we have deductive logic based on observable evidence that proves the Qur'an is the true word of Allah in the following:

Proof that the Qur'an is the true word of Allah

Hypothesis: There is no error or indecency in the Qur'an and it is a guidance to righteousness

Do basically it is about the same as any self help book or religious text out there.

The Christians feel the same way about their Bible. If you were born in the west to Christian parents, you'd probably agree with them.

Test subject : You

Experiment: Find one error, indecency or guide to unrighteous behavior in the Qur'an

There are many but how about if we just start with one:

It says your Muhammad flew on a winged horse. All biologists agree that horses do not have wings nor has it been observed in a lab setting that a human can ride on any flying animal.


Conclusion: You failed:

Since there is no error or indecency in the Qur'an, then the only logical conclusion that can be derived is that whomever is the author of the Qur"an, the individual is a truth teller and righteous because all of the content in the Qur"an is without error, indecency, and immorality, and it is a guidance to righteousness.

You say it as a fact yet most of the world disagrees with you. Many people believe they are the ones with the special book and all others are a lie. You are the same as them but just with a different book.

The question still remains as to who is the author? This is discovered from the next test.


Hypothesis: "It is humanly impossible for a person/s to inspire enough followers to help him/her/ them conquer and rule a nation by using human-made speech/literature that goes against the likes and beliefs of those people."


Really? Do you think Islam is the only dogma in the world that has had a big impact?

Regarding virtually every dictator that has ever existed: How did they achieve power and conquer with anything else other than speech? (notwithstanding dictators that were born into their position)

Test Subject: You

Experiment: Try to inspire enough followers to help you conquer and rule just the street you live on by using human-made speech/literature that goes against the liking of the people

I freely admit I'm not a barbaric theocratic megalomaniac.

Conclusion: You failed

Thus the challenge provides a hands on-eyewitness account that inspiring enough followers to help him/her conquer and rule a nation, or just the street you live on, by using human-made speech/literature that goes against what the people want is humanly impossible, because anyone who takes the challenge will fail and not come close to answering it. And since it is clearly humanly impossible to use human-made speech/literature to achieve the act, then that means that the Qur'an that Muhammad used to inspire enough followers to help him conquer and rule a nation was not the invention of any human/s, but from one who has greater power and authority than humans, and that is Allah.

Hitler and Stalin also just used their words to rule over a nation.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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11/26/2016 3:12:17 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/26/2016 1:54:56 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

Personally I have no energy to prove someone else's beliefs are wrong. I just like to listen to what others believe.

And that is why you are not a theist.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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11/26/2016 3:18:10 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/26/2016 1:48:10 AM, Archaholic wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

If I were a theist, I would avoid to convince them. It is like a christian trying to convince a muslim that Allah is a false god. It is nonsense.

BR

That is exactly the point. The Christian thinks the Muslim is confused. The Muslim thinks the Christian is confused. The fact is that they are both confused. All religions are equal as unsubstantiated yet extraordinary claims.

If you really think about the claims that are made, Islam and Christianity are equally as strange as Scientology.
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,396
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11/26/2016 3:21:41 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/26/2016 1:54:56 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

Personally I have no energy to prove someone else's beliefs are wrong. I just like to listen to what others believe.

I think it wouldn't be too hard to locate some recent insults of yours to informations to beliefs of others found ridiculous to you. I could post some for you if you disagree.
Hiu
Posts: 1,015
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11/26/2016 3:23:05 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/26/2016 3:12:17 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 11/26/2016 1:54:56 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

Personally I have no energy to prove someone else's beliefs are wrong. I just like to listen to what others believe.

And that is why you are not a theist.

I'm actually an agnostic-theist
Hiu
Posts: 1,015
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11/26/2016 3:24:02 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/26/2016 3:21:41 AM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 11/26/2016 1:54:56 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:00:48 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have a question for theists:

How exactly would you convince a Scientologist that Xenu and Thetans don't exist?

What would you say?

Personally I have no energy to prove someone else's beliefs are wrong. I just like to listen to what others believe.

I think it wouldn't be too hard to locate some recent insults of yours to informations to beliefs of others found ridiculous to you. I could post some for you if you disagree.

Sure. Such as the anti-semitic thread you created? Of course I would insult that.