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Blasphemy Against Holy Spirit

CosmicAlfonzo
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2/5/2011 2:33:12 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm especially curious as to how Christians interpret this passage... but I'm also curious as to how non-christians interpret this passage...

I have my own interpretation, but I'm testing something. I'll give my piece once in a bit.. It seems like many of the Christians here are still living off the milk of the word, not seeming to have any real deep understanding.. Too many non-christians stuck in the letter of the law rather than the spirit.

Make sure to define holy spirit, etc. Be as thorough and clear as possible..

Matthew 12:30-32

Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
gavin.ogden
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2/5/2011 2:39:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/5/2011 2:33:12 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I'm especially curious as to how Christians interpret this passage... but I'm also curious as to how non-christians interpret this passage...

I have my own interpretation, but I'm testing something. I'll give my piece once in a bit.. It seems like many of the Christians here are still living off the milk of the word, not seeming to have any real deep understanding.. Too many non-christians stuck in the letter of the law rather than the spirit.

Make sure to define holy spirit, etc. Be as thorough and clear as possible..

Matthew 12:30-32

Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

You can talk $hit against other people, but not against god. It's a great example of jealousy, a secondary human emotion based in fear. Also, it protects the sensibilities of a self proclaimed omnipotent being, but not those who are less able to defend themselves. This almost is enough to disprove the bible, altogether.
CosmicAlfonzo
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2/5/2011 3:02:54 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I would kindly ask that in this topic, no one debate with a previous poster's interpretation.

Oddly enough, I don't want this to be a debate topic.. At least not yet.. Not until we get a few interpretations down.

Just think of me as being a moderator here for the time being.

I'd really appreciate the cooperation, thank yous.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
gavin.ogden
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2/5/2011 3:07:01 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/5/2011 3:02:54 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I would kindly ask that in this topic, no one debate with a previous poster's interpretation.

Oddly enough, I don't want this to be a debate topic.. At least not yet.. Not until we get a few interpretations down.

Just think of me as being a moderator here for the time being.

I'd really appreciate the cooperation, thank yous.

Gotcha.
Puck
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2/5/2011 6:28:09 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
As far as I'm aware the distinction being made is not Jesus vs. Spirit but more vs. the work supposedly done via the spirit - grace, deeds etc. The sin becomes one more of unbelief or nonacceptance rather than offense. The unpardonable nature being a direct consequence of that. No doubt there are several interpretations.
Charles0103
Posts: 523
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2/5/2011 6:51:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/5/2011 2:33:12 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I'm especially curious as to how Christians interpret this passage... but I'm also curious as to how non-christians interpret this passage...

I have my own interpretation, but I'm testing something. I'll give my piece once in a bit.. It seems like many of the Christians here are still living off the milk of the word, not seeming to have any real deep understanding.. Too many non-christians stuck in the letter of the law rather than the spirit.

Make sure to define holy spirit, etc. Be as thorough and clear as possible..

Matthew 12:30-32

Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

I don't think Jesus was talking about the Holy Spirit (Third guy in the Trinity). Instead, I think he was talking about "spirit" in a sense that it's the works of Christianity. If I remember correctly, Jesus was responding to the Pharisees in the previous verses.

Basically, he says that you CAN (but you shouldn't) speak against God, but you can't get in the way of Christians trying to preach and whatnot. Cuz that's just mean.

Can't wait to see what you think, Alfonzo.

Oh! And now that I think of it, the Holy Spirit's job is to be our guide and to help us preach to others. So, getting in the way of the Holy Spirit means you get in the way of preaching which is just wrong.
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
tvellalott
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2/5/2011 7:21:38 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I reject the Holy Spirit in the morning when I wake up.
I reject the Holy Spirit constantly during my waking hours.
Each night before I go to bed, I reject the Holy Spirit.
I'm so adamant about rejecting the Holy Spirit that my subconscious is trained to reject it even when I'm sleeping. My nights are filled with dreams of rejection of the Holy Spirit.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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PARADIGM_L0ST
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2/5/2011 9:22:14 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
It seems like many of the Christians here are still living off the milk of the word, not seeming to have any real deep understanding:

Could not agree more.

Matthew 12:30-32

Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.:

Consider who Jesus was speaking to..... The Pharisees.... Isn't it interesting that Jesus had the most problems with the one's who paraded around like they were the most holy.

From everything I've ever read in the bible (because often you have to compare and contrast different verses for it to make sense, or to expose contradictions) it means something very specific.

My interpretation of it means that if you've truly met and accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior (and it means really to know him, not merely profess it like so many fake Xtians) and then to turn your back, you can't be forgiven because there is nothing left to sacrifice.

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." -- Hebrews 6:4-6
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
CosmicAlfonzo
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2/5/2011 11:56:24 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Waiting for godsands and/or Jar Jar here..

No arguing yet, please ;D

If anyone hasn't posted their interpretation, feel free.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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2/5/2011 12:16:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/5/2011 2:33:12 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I'm especially curious as to how Christians interpret this passage... but I'm also curious as to how non-christians interpret this passage...

I have my own interpretation, but I'm testing something. I'll give my piece once in a bit.. It seems like many of the Christians here are still living off the milk of the word, not seeming to have any real deep understanding.. Too many non-christians stuck in the letter of the law rather than the spirit.

Make sure to define holy spirit, etc. Be as thorough and clear as possible..

Matthew 12:30-32

Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
This verse does not say that it is not sinful to slander and blaspheme against other people. What it says is that something as holy as the Holy Spirit is not to be sinned against, i.e., it should not be lied about, and so forth. In my opinion, it also indicates that the Holy Spirit is higher in status than Jesus (peace be upon him), by making a clear distinction between blaspheming either of them, i.e., how sinful it is to blaspheme one of them compared to the other.
Charles0103
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2/5/2011 12:39:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/5/2011 11:56:24 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Waiting for godsands and/or Jar Jar here..

No arguing yet, please ;D

If anyone hasn't posted their interpretation, feel free.

Oh, I see how it is. Am I not good enough for you? Hahaha, I'm kidding, bud!
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
CosmicAlfonzo
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2/5/2011 12:41:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
You already posted your opinion, dawg foo gangsta.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Charles0103
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2/5/2011 12:42:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/5/2011 12:41:49 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
You already posted your opinion, dawg foo gangsta.

What on earth is a dawg foo gangsta?
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
tigg13
Posts: 302
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2/5/2011 1:03:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/5/2011 2:33:12 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I'm especially curious as to how Christians interpret this passage... but I'm also curious as to how non-christians interpret this passage...

I have my own interpretation, but I'm testing something. I'll give my piece once in a bit.. It seems like many of the Christians here are still living off the milk of the word, not seeming to have any real deep understanding.. Too many non-christians stuck in the letter of the law rather than the spirit.

Make sure to define holy spirit, etc. Be as thorough and clear as possible..

Matthew 12:30-32

Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

To me, I see this verse as a paradox for those who wish to proselytize.

Anyone who doesn't believe in Christ and/or God to begin with (is not with Him) has already blasphemed against the spirit by denying that He is their Lord and savior. So converting them to Christ is a waste of time because they cannot be forgiven no matter how well the Gospel has been explained or how much they want to believe.

The only solution to this problem would seem to be God's Grace. Scripture does say that this is the only way to achieve salvation. But, since God can grant His Grace to anyone, even non-believers (like Paul, for example), then our free will has nothing to do with it. God will save whoever he wants to save. And the faith of anyone who has not received God's Grace means nothing.
Jarjar3000
Posts: 273
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2/5/2011 3:45:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
First off I would say that you have to remember that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one in the same God, So when you reject The holy spirit you are rejecting Jesus and vice versa, But the Holy spirit is the first part of redemption, the Holy Spirit brings conviction and brings you to Christ which in turn Christ reconciles you with the Father, bringing about your redemption, now if you Shut down and reject this first part redemption than you obviously cannot be redeemed and your sin will not be forgiven.

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
1 John 1:8-10
Ohh Lord How you love me, you change my heart and soul, renewing my mind into something I could never imagine, You make me strong when I am weak, you encourage me when I'm despaired, You stick by me when everyone deserts me, You are my Lord You are my God.

Charles: I'm not a Christian because I'm afraid of hell, I'm a Christian because I love Jesus.

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CosmicAlfonzo
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2/5/2011 10:06:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
bump for godsands
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
CosmicAlfonzo
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2/6/2011 12:58:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Ok, GodSands decided not to post, so I'll just go ahead. Maybe he'll come back later.

The holy spirit in the bible is refered to the spirit that leads into all truth.

Those who are guided by the holy spirit are honest and diligent seakers of truth.

Those who would halt the pursuit of knowledge or deny that there is truth are the true blasphemers of the holy spirit.

When Jesus says, "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.", Jesus is saying that he is on the side of truth, and anyone who hinders the pursuit of truth scatters.

When Jesus says that all sins will be forgiven except those who speak out against the holy spirit, he is really speaking out against the people who practice and teach willfull ignorance. However, he does not just teach this.. Blashpemy against the spirit also refers to living in a state of willfull ignorance. As long as you are intellectual dishonest, and have to practice willful ignorance in order to keep your current understandings.. You are blaspheming the holy spirit.

Jesus says that "even blashpemy against The Son of Man(Jesus) will be forgiven". This means that you do not have to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved if you can't believe it... As long as you are guided by the holy spirit, you will be forgiven.

The event that prompted Jesus to say this is slightly different in each gospel, and more than likely, the saying was taken out of context to begin with, probably written down and put into narrative later when the gospels were written.

Matthew is basically an embellishment of Mark anyway, a much and earlier gospel. Jesus' words before this verse however are relevent.. But seriously, a whole thread could be dedicated to that alone. I have a very unorthodox interpretation.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
CosmicAlfonzo
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2/6/2011 2:08:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Oh yeah, forgot to say...

Debating, discussing, etc is ok now.

I was waiting for GodSands, but I figure if he wants to chime in later, he still can.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Charles0103
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2/6/2011 11:12:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/6/2011 12:58:15 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Ok, GodSands decided not to post, so I'll just go ahead. Maybe he'll come back later.


The holy spirit in the bible is refered to the spirit that leads into all truth.

Those who are guided by the holy spirit are honest and diligent seakers of truth.


Those who would halt the pursuit of knowledge or deny that there is truth are the true blasphemers of the holy spirit.


When Jesus says, "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.", Jesus is saying that he is on the side of truth, and anyone who hinders the pursuit of truth scatters.

When Jesus says that all sins will be forgiven except those who speak out against the holy spirit, he is really speaking out against the people who practice and teach willfull ignorance. However, he does not just teach this.. Blashpemy against the spirit also refers to living in a state of willfull ignorance. As long as you are intellectual dishonest, and have to practice willful ignorance in order to keep your current understandings.. You are blaspheming the holy spirit.

Jesus says that "even blashpemy against The Son of Man(Jesus) will be forgiven". This means that you do not have to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved if you can't believe it... As long as you are guided by the holy spirit, you will be forgiven.



The event that prompted Jesus to say this is slightly different in each gospel, and more than likely, the saying was taken out of context to begin with, probably written down and put into narrative later when the gospels were written.

Matthew is basically an embellishment of Mark anyway, a much and earlier gospel. Jesus' words before this verse however are relevent.. But seriously, a whole thread could be dedicated to that alone. I have a very unorthodox interpretation.

Interesting interpetation. However, there are just too many other verses where Jesus says He's the only way to heaven.

And I think JarJar is a little wrong, too (no offense, brother). The Spirit is NOT the first step in the conviction. Jesus was. If Jesus wouldn't have come, there would be no Holy Spirit on earth.

Jesus says you CAN be forgiven if you make fun of Him. But if you start getting in the way of people trying to preach (which is what we use the Holy Spirit for), then he can't forgive us. For example, the leaders in China who won't let Christians pass out Bibles.
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
CosmicAlfonzo
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2/6/2011 12:46:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/6/2011 11:12:21 AM, Charles0103 wrote:
Interesting interpetation. However, there are just too many other verses where Jesus says He's the only way to heaven.


Could you give me a few examples that are not from the book of John?

I say this because the book of John is a very special case, it paints a very different picture of Jesus.. It is supposed to be the gospel for the "true believer".

My interpretation of John is also unorthodox, and would probably be best suited to another topic.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Charles0103
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2/6/2011 1:42:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/6/2011 12:46:38 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 2/6/2011 11:12:21 AM, Charles0103 wrote:
Interesting interpetation. However, there are just too many other verses where Jesus says He's the only way to heaven.


Could you give me a few examples that are not from the book of John?

I say this because the book of John is a very special case, it paints a very different picture of Jesus.. It is supposed to be the gospel for the "true believer".

My interpretation of John is also unorthodox, and would probably be best suited to another topic.

I agree. The book of John is very interesting and you see another picture of Jesus.

And here's some examples:

Acts 4:12 [Peter telling the crowd about Jesus] "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9

Here's some examples from the other Gospels:

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it" (Matthew 7:13).

In Luke 17 at the Transfiguration, Moses and Elijah pop up next to Jesus and God the Father's like, "Listen to this guy. He's right."

John is usually the book we look to for Jesus to be like, "Hi. I'm Jesus. I'm your only way to heaven." However, in the rest of the gospels, the author's wrote it with the knowledge that people already knew that Jesus would be the only way to heaven. Why John was the only one to spell it out differently than the others is a mystery to me.

Long story short, in Matthew/Mark (these two Gospels were almost written together, so I keep them in the same category), and Luke implied that Jesus is the only way to heaven. John was the only one to spell it out for us.

If Jesus was not the only way, the other authors of the New Testament wouldn't have said so. I can't even list how many times Paul or James or John or Peter are saying Jesus is the only way to heaven.
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
CosmicAlfonzo
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2/6/2011 2:40:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/6/2011 1:42:35 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
Acts 4:12 [Peter telling the crowd about Jesus] "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9

Here's some examples from the other Gospels:

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it" (Matthew 7:13).

In Luke 17 at the Transfiguration, Moses and Elijah pop up next to Jesus and God the Father's like, "Listen to this guy. He's right."

John is usually the book we look to for Jesus to be like, "Hi. I'm Jesus. I'm your only way to heaven." However, in the rest of the gospels, the author's wrote it with the knowledge that people already knew that Jesus would be the only way to heaven. Why John was the only one to spell it out differently than the others is a mystery to me.

Long story short, in Matthew/Mark (these two Gospels were almost written together, so I keep them in the same category), and Luke implied that Jesus is the only way to heaven. John was the only one to spell it out for us.

If Jesus was not the only way, the other authors of the New Testament wouldn't have said so. I can't even list how many times Paul or James or John or Peter are saying Jesus is the only way to heaven.

With the New Testament, I think it is important to read between the lines. I always got the impression(especially in some of the post gospel accounts) that the people who wrote about Jesus didn't understand what Jesus was trying to say or get at, and probably took him way too seriously.

They deified him, when really he was trying to get them to learn from god. A good portion of what he taught seemed to point people into learning and figuring things out without relying on teachers. Jesus is actually a really good teacher.. Not because anything he says is true or practical, but because he leads you in that direction.. He grabs your hand, and helps you reach up to grab God's hand. From that point on, you will be learning from the best teacher.

You do not need Jesus to do this, but if you understand and follow what he is saying, he will do this.

The whole point of Christianity is to get you to do a whole bunch of ridiculous things so that you eventually come to the conclusion that it is all a bunch of nonsense. The people who do these ridiculous things and do not eventually come to the conclusion that it is a load of crock are singled out as being dishonest and foolish.

The people who continue to lie to themselves and subject themselves to these cognitive dissonances are miserable people indeed. Only once they get the joke will they reach a stage of enlightenment that allows them to be content with their lives.

In other words, it is a big practical joke. A joke that was not meant to last any longer than the generation of the time, but somehow went out of control.

Of course, I don't expect to convince anyone with this interpretation. Instead, I would suggest that if you are a Christian, go forth and do the things that the bible asks of you to do. I mean, really do it. You might be surprised at the things that happen.

Some say call the teachings of Jesus are nonsense.
Others call it lofty but impractical.
But to those who have looked inside themselves,
this nonsense makes perfect sense.
And to those who put it into practice,
this loftiness has roots that go deep.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
vardas0antras
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2/6/2011 3:10:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
[normal Chorus:]
If you are what you say you are
A superstar
Then have no fear
The camera's here
and the microphones and they wanna know
Oh oh oh oh

[Verse 1:]
Yea, uh
A fresh cool young Lu
Trying to cash his microphone check 2, 1, 2
Want to believe my own hype but it's too untrue
The world brought me to my knees
What have you brung you?
Did you improve on the design?
Did you do something new?
Well your name ain't on the guest list
Who brung you? You
The more famous person, you come through
And the sexy lady next to you
You come too
And then it hit me
Standing outside of heaven waiting for God to come and get me
I'm too uncouth
Unschooled to the rules
And too gum shoe
Too much of a newcomer
And too uncool
Like Shadow and Lavelle
I battle with it well
Though I need a holiday like lady who sung blue
Go back what ever you did you undo
Heavy is heaven
The devil on me two tonnes too

[normal Chorus]

[Verse 2:]
And you better wear your shades
The spotlights here can burn holes through the stage
Down through the basement
Past the Indian graves
Where the dinosaurs laid
And out through China
Nearly misses air liners
Magnified times five
This is pointed at the rhymer
Ricochets off the moon and sets the forest ablaze
Now that's important to say
Cuz even with all of that
Most of us don't want it to fade
We want it to braid
Meaning we want it to grow
Meaning we want it to stay
Like the governor called
And they told him to wait
Un-strap him from the chair
And put him back in his cage
The audience ain't fazed
And they ain't gon' clap and they ain't gon' praise
They want everything back that they paid
Cuz they been waiting since ten to see the lights get dim

(chorus)

If you are what you say you are
a superstar
then have no fear
the crowd is here
and the lights are on and they want a show
oh oh oh oh yeah

[Verse 3:]
So chauffeur chauffeur come and take me away
Cuz I been standing in this line
For like five whole days
Me and security ain't getting along
And when I got to the front they told me all of the tickets were gone
So just take me home where the mood is mellow
And the roses are grown
M&M's are yellow
And the light bulbs around my mirror don't flicker
Everybody gets a nice autograph picture
One for you and one for your sister
Who had to work tonight but is an avid listener
Every song's a favorite song
And mics don't feed back
All the reviewers say you need to go and see that
And everybody claps cuz everybody is pleased
Then they all take the stage and start performing for me
Like ha ha ha ha ha
Ha ha ha ha ha

[normal chorus)
If you are what you say you are
A superstar
Then have no fear
The camera's is here
and the microphones and they wanna know
Oh oh oh oh yeah
If you are what you say you are
Then have no fear
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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2/6/2011 3:14:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/6/2011 2:40:02 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 2/6/2011 1:42:35 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
Acts 4:12 [Peter telling the crowd about Jesus] "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9

Here's some examples from the other Gospels:

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it" (Matthew 7:13).

In Luke 17 at the Transfiguration, Moses and Elijah pop up next to Jesus and God the Father's like, "Listen to this guy. He's right."

John is usually the book we look to for Jesus to be like, "Hi. I'm Jesus. I'm your only way to heaven." However, in the rest of the gospels, the author's wrote it with the knowledge that people already knew that Jesus would be the only way to heaven. Why John was the only one to spell it out differently than the others is a mystery to me.

Long story short, in Matthew/Mark (these two Gospels were almost written together, so I keep them in the same category), and Luke implied that Jesus is the only way to heaven. John was the only one to spell it out for us.

If Jesus was not the only way, the other authors of the New Testament wouldn't have said so. I can't even list how many times Paul or James or John or Peter are saying Jesus is the only way to heaven.

With the New Testament, I think it is important to read between the lines. I always got the impression(especially in some of the post gospel accounts) that the people who wrote about Jesus didn't understand what Jesus was trying to say or get at, and probably took him way too seriously.

They deified him, when really he was trying to get them to learn from god. A good portion of what he taught seemed to point people into learning and figuring things out without relying on teachers. Jesus is actually a really good teacher.. Not because anything he says is true or practical, but because he leads you in that direction.. He grabs your hand, and helps you reach up to grab God's hand. From that point on, you will be learning from the best teacher.

You do not need Jesus to do this, but if you understand and follow what he is saying, he will do this.

The whole point of Christianity is to get you to do a whole bunch of ridiculous things so that you eventually come to the conclusion that it is all a bunch of nonsense. The people who do these ridiculous things and do not eventually come to the conclusion that it is a load of crock are singled out as being dishonest and foolish.

The people who continue to lie to themselves and subject themselves to these cognitive dissonances are miserable people indeed. Only once they get the joke will they reach a stage of enlightenment that allows them to be content with their lives.

In other words, it is a big practical joke. A joke that was not meant to last any longer than the generation of the time, but somehow went out of control.

Of course, I don't expect to convince anyone with this interpretation. Instead, I would suggest that if you are a Christian, go forth and do the things that the bible asks of you to do. I mean, really do it. You might be surprised at the things that happen.

Some say call the teachings of Jesus are nonsense.
Others call it lofty but impractical.
But to those who have looked inside themselves,
this nonsense makes perfect sense.
And to those who put it into practice,
this loftiness has roots that go deep.

For me, you speak from a different world ; your logic is nonsense for me. And, I suppose that the same is with vice versa which is why I always looked down upon preaching.
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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2/6/2011 3:28:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/6/2011 3:14:02 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
For me, you speak from a different world ; your logic is nonsense for me. And, I suppose that the same is with vice versa which is why I always looked down upon preaching.

Get obsessively serious about your religion, and then my reasoning MIGHT make sense to you someday. Though what do I know, I could just be crazy, right? Bwahaha!
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Charles0103
Posts: 523
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2/6/2011 3:34:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/6/2011 2:40:02 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 2/6/2011 1:42:35 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
Acts 4:12 [Peter telling the crowd about Jesus] "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9

Here's some examples from the other Gospels:

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it" (Matthew 7:13).

In Luke 17 at the Transfiguration, Moses and Elijah pop up next to Jesus and God the Father's like, "Listen to this guy. He's right."

John is usually the book we look to for Jesus to be like, "Hi. I'm Jesus. I'm your only way to heaven." However, in the rest of the gospels, the author's wrote it with the knowledge that people already knew that Jesus would be the only way to heaven. Why John was the only one to spell it out differently than the others is a mystery to me.

Long story short, in Matthew/Mark (these two Gospels were almost written together, so I keep them in the same category), and Luke implied that Jesus is the only way to heaven. John was the only one to spell it out for us.

If Jesus was not the only way, the other authors of the New Testament wouldn't have said so. I can't even list how many times Paul or James or John or Peter are saying Jesus is the only way to heaven.

With the New Testament, I think it is important to read between the lines. I always got the impression(especially in some of the post gospel accounts) that the people who wrote about Jesus didn't understand what Jesus was trying to say or get at, and probably took him way too seriously.

They deified him, when really he was trying to get them to learn from god. A good portion of what he taught seemed to point people into learning and figuring things out without relying on teachers. Jesus is actually a really good teacher.. Not because anything he says is true or practical, but because he leads you in that direction.. He grabs your hand, and helps you reach up to grab God's hand. From that point on, you will be learning from the best teacher.

You do not need Jesus to do this, but if you understand and follow what he is saying, he will do this.

The whole point of Christianity is to get you to do a whole bunch of ridiculous things so that you eventually come to the conclusion that it is all a bunch of nonsense. The people who do these ridiculous things and do not eventually come to the conclusion that it is a load of crock are singled out as being dishonest and foolish.

The people who continue to lie to themselves and subject themselves to these cognitive dissonances are miserable people indeed. Only once they get the joke will they reach a stage of enlightenment that allows them to be content with their lives.

In other words, it is a big practical joke. A joke that was not meant to last any longer than the generation of the time, but somehow went out of control.

Of course, I don't expect to convince anyone with this interpretation. Instead, I would suggest that if you are a Christian, go forth and do the things that the bible asks of you to do. I mean, really do it. You might be surprised at the things that happen.

Like what?

Some say call the teachings of Jesus are nonsense.
Others call it lofty but impractical.
But to those who have looked inside themselves,
this nonsense makes perfect sense.
And to those who put it into practice,
this loftiness has roots that go deep.

Jesus's "job" was to come down and remake religion all over again because Moses epically failed and got religion all about the Law. In fact, in Matthew 27:51, ("And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.") we see that the veil of the temple was ripped in two. So what? Only the holiest of holies could go into that temple. When Jesus died for us, he wanted us all to be in communication with God which is what the priests did in the temple behind the veil.

Well, so what? Jesus wanting us to do as you mentioned is debatable. What he really wanted us to do was to learn to have faith in God instead of being so wrapped up in tiny little things.

Why would Jesus die for a practical joke? Was He simply that good of a man? Maybe. But He fits in too well with the prophecies mentioned by Isaiah, Daniel, Jeremiah, etc.
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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2/6/2011 3:35:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/6/2011 3:28:53 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 2/6/2011 3:14:02 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
For me, you speak from a different world ; your logic is nonsense for me. And, I suppose that the same is with vice versa which is why I always looked down upon preaching.

Get obsessively serious about your religion, and then my reasoning MIGHT make sense to you someday. Though what do I know, I could just be crazy, right? Bwahaha!

Isn't that just another perspective ? This perspective is bound to be proven false. So, yeah, this perspective that you had is false. Is Christianity therefore false ? Maybe but disproving an obsessive perspective does as much as destroying a radical perspective. That being nothing.
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
Charles0103
Posts: 523
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2/6/2011 3:35:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/6/2011 3:28:53 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 2/6/2011 3:14:02 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
For me, you speak from a different world ; your logic is nonsense for me. And, I suppose that the same is with vice versa which is why I always looked down upon preaching.

Get obsessively serious about your religion, and then my reasoning MIGHT make sense to you someday. Though what do I know, I could just be crazy, right? Bwahaha!

Yes, brother, you're that crazy! Hahaha. My religion isn't the biggest part of my life... my religion IS my life.
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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2/6/2011 3:40:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ