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Do you believe in Heaven and Hell ?

interrogator
Posts: 1,322
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2/10/2011 10:21:24 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
There is a place that exist outside of this world. Of all of the things that we have
seen as human beings that cannot be explained by science..............I think
that alone is enough to say ok. There is something out there. And it is making
itself known. We dont know what it is, we dont know where. We see it in
our visions, and we see it in our dreams. And still the mystery remains.
Some of us have even felt the other side ourselves. But what do you think ?
Is there a Heaven ?
Is there a Hell ?
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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2/10/2011 10:26:14 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
What specifically are you referring to by things that can't be explained by science?
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
interrogator
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2/10/2011 10:29:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Whenever I speak to those who do not believe.............I tell them the answer
lies in front of you. Have you ever seen anything that was out of the ordinary ?
It may have been supernatural, or just a miracle.
Science cannot define these uncanny events, as they have tried and failed
before. It is there in spite of it all. The messages are sent through other
people. You dont need to have any other evidence at all.
Just use common sense. Unfortunately, we are living in a time now
where much of it seems to have been abandoned.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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2/10/2011 10:31:10 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
You are speaking of the variable unaccounted for, and your swiftness to label such events as supernatural is not only superstitious and presumptuous, but blasphemous as well.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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2/10/2011 10:31:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 10:24:53 AM, Aibohphobia wrote:
When we die we rot in the ground. There is no afterlife.

*DOUBLEGASP*

THE EVIDENCE In THAT STATEMENT BLOWS ME AWAY!

Have you ever considered writing a book with Richard Dawkins?
kfc
interrogator
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2/10/2011 10:35:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Comic Alfonzo. No it is not blasphemous or superstition. When I say
supernatural I am using it in a casual sense. Do you want to know
what I believe ?
I believe that Gods is real.
I believe that there is a Heaven.
I believe that there is a Hell.

My own personal experiences have led me to believe so.
interrogator
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2/10/2011 10:35:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Comic Alfonzo. No it is not blasphemous or superstition. When I say
supernatural I am using it in a casual sense. Do you want to know
what I believe ?
I believe that God is real.
I believe that there is a Heaven.
I believe that there is a Hell.

My own personal experiences have led me to believe so.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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2/10/2011 10:53:31 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Kenyon wins this topic.

At 2/10/2011 10:35:39 AM, interrogator wrote:
Comic Alfonzo. No it is not blasphemous or superstition. When I say
supernatural I am using it in a casual sense. Do you want to know
what I believe ?
I believe that God is real.
I believe that there is a Heaven.
I believe that there is a Hell.

My own personal experiences have led me to believe so.

What is god?
What is heaven?
What is hell?
What do you consider to be supernatural?
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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2/10/2011 12:42:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 10:29:43 AM, interrogator wrote:
Whenever I speak to those who do not believe.............I tell them the answer
lies in front of you. Have you ever seen anything that was out of the ordinary ?
It may have been supernatural, or just a miracle.:

Have you ever heard of the power of suggestion or self-fulfilling prophecies? Something "out of the ordinary" hardly qualifies as a miracle. If God wanted people to know him so badly, why did he completely hide existence?

Jesus said that if we have faith as small as mustard seed, we could go tell mountains to throw themselves in the sea. Has that EVER happened? No.

These are stories that you choose to believe because it gives your life a sense of purpose, direction, and meaning.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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2/10/2011 12:51:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'd like to make sure we are on the same page before we have an intelligent discussion.

I'm going to let the OP clearly state his definitions of the terminology. I already have an idea, but these words have radically different interpretations when taken metaphorically as opposed to literally.

The bible is useful as a brain exercise if read metaphorically.. If you can't read it in anything but a literal sense, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest that you'd find it to be stupid.

That said, some of the deepest statements when taken metaphorically seem to be the statements that most people(Christians included) take literally.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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2/10/2011 1:11:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Consciouness is derived from dependent causes, there is no you sitting behind your eyes that floats away in the event of death. It's difficult to deal with I know. There is no heaven no hell.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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2/10/2011 1:45:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 10:31:57 AM, Koopin wrote:
At 2/10/2011 10:24:53 AM, Aibohphobia wrote:
When we die we rot in the ground. There is no afterlife.

*DOUBLEGASP*

THE EVIDENCE In THAT STATEMENT BLOWS ME AWAY!

well, while there wasn't any evidence "IN" the statements... you can go look in the ground in a cemetery for evidence in support of his first statement...

and the second one may be without evidence.. but I think it's just fine to talk that way in regard to things for which there's no reason to believe...
like I might say that Poseidon doesn't exist..

Sure.. I don't have any direct evidence in support of his non-existence.. but there's really no good reason to think there's a Sea-mangod named poseidon... and I assume he was made up by superstitious folks to explain the world and such...

In the case of "the afterlife" I assume it's made up notto explain the world so much.. but rather b/c people like to delude themselves about things which they find depressing... Like death.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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2/10/2011 1:49:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 10:37:39 AM, J.Kenyon wrote:
Of course I believe in Heaven & Hell...

that's what I thought of too.. but I couldn't bring myself to post Sabbath w/o ozzy :(
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Jarjar3000
Posts: 273
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2/10/2011 1:55:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
There is a heaven and there is a hell, God is real, He came to Earth, bought you a ticket to the former, its up to you to accept it, otherwise you won't just be rotting when you die.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:16-18
Ohh Lord How you love me, you change my heart and soul, renewing my mind into something I could never imagine, You make me strong when I am weak, you encourage me when I'm despaired, You stick by me when everyone deserts me, You are my Lord You are my God.

Charles: I'm not a Christian because I'm afraid of hell, I'm a Christian because I love Jesus.

Geolaureate: The Pope
He looks like a Sith lord, I don't trust him.

Charles0103: Just like my God, my faith won't change.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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2/10/2011 2:19:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 1:55:02 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
There is a heaven and there is a hell, God is real, He came to Earth, bought you a ticket to the former, its up to you to accept it, otherwise you won't just be rotting when you die.:

Everyone listen to this guy. It's true... Heaven is a real place. That's where the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy live.

Case closed, people.

Go home.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Jarjar3000
Posts: 273
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2/10/2011 2:33:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Hahahahahaa P.L P.L P.L and here I thought we got past the mocking and insults phase of our relationship, silly me. BTW the tooth fairy and Easter Bunny didn't make it to Heaven :/
Ohh Lord How you love me, you change my heart and soul, renewing my mind into something I could never imagine, You make me strong when I am weak, you encourage me when I'm despaired, You stick by me when everyone deserts me, You are my Lord You are my God.

Charles: I'm not a Christian because I'm afraid of hell, I'm a Christian because I love Jesus.

Geolaureate: The Pope
He looks like a Sith lord, I don't trust him.

Charles0103: Just like my God, my faith won't change.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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2/10/2011 3:38:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 2:33:45 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
Hahahahahaa P.L P.L P.L and here I thought we got past the mocking and insults phase of our relationship, silly me. BTW the tooth fairy and Easter Bunny didn't make it to Heaven :/:

Neither did Jesus ;)
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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2/10/2011 3:44:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 3:15:28 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
We won't know what happens until we die. ;)

False. How can we know things when our brains aren't functioning and our bodies rotting in the ground?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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2/10/2011 3:46:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 3:44:08 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 2/10/2011 3:15:28 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
We won't know what happens until we die. ;)

False. How can we know things when our brains aren't functioning and our bodies rotting in the ground?

You don't know that for sure... ;) Nobody does unless we have a way to resurrect dead people and ask them.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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2/10/2011 3:58:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 3:46:57 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 2/10/2011 3:44:08 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 2/10/2011 3:15:28 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
We won't know what happens until we die. ;)

False. How can we know things when our brains aren't functioning and our bodies rotting in the ground?

You don't know that for sure... ;)

Yes, actually I do. You seriously question whether our brains cease to function and our bodies rot in the ground? Even fundamentalist Christians would concede that point, yet your agnostic about this?

If you're so unsure, go to a grave, find a body and check if his brain is still working. You will have your answer. Of course, that's unnecessary cause scientists already did the research and the answer is pretty unanimously conclusive.

Nobody does unless we have a way to resurrect dead people and ask them.

So you concede that dead people are actually dead and not already ressurected?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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2/10/2011 4:04:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 3:44:08 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 2/10/2011 3:15:28 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
We won't know what happens until we die. ;)

False. How can we know things when our brains aren't functioning and our bodies rotting in the ground?:

Because we don't know if anything transcends after death. So she's right, we don't know.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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2/10/2011 4:05:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 4:04:03 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 2/10/2011 3:44:08 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 2/10/2011 3:15:28 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
We won't know what happens until we die. ;)

False. How can we know things when our brains aren't functioning and our bodies rotting in the ground?:

Because we don't know if anything transcends after death. So she's right, we don't know.

Yea. I wasn't only referring to the actual physical body as many religious groups believe we have souls too.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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2/10/2011 4:10:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 4:04:03 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 2/10/2011 3:44:08 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 2/10/2011 3:15:28 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
We won't know what happens until we die. ;)

False. How can we know things when our brains aren't functioning and our bodies rotting in the ground?:

Because we don't know if anything transcends after death. So she's right, we don't know.

Dude, think about it. She said we won't have the knowledge until AFTER were dead. When I'm dead, my brain will have ceased functioning and will not be capable of learning and storing knowledge.

The only way we can say that we know what happens after death when we die is if we already assume that our mind survives death and thus affirming the answer to the question "do we continue to exist after death." The question assumes a specific answer.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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2/10/2011 4:16:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It is presumptious to state "we won't know until after we die." This is an unfounded assertion because we DON'T know whether we will find out what happens after death. If we die and our brain ceases to function and there is no transmigrating mind substance, we will never KNOW what happens.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat