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Energy regulations.

lewis20
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4/5/2011 11:29:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
illegal-
incandescent bulbs
shower heads that produce more than 2.5 gallons per minute.
Toilets have some regulation on how much water they can use.
I can't think of any more regulations but to get a big list of them would be nice.
I for one would kill to find a house that the toilets actually flush.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/5/2011 11:33:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 11:29:27 PM, lewis20 wrote:
illegal-
incandescent bulbs
shower heads that produce more than 2.5 gallons per minute.
Toilets have some regulation on how much water they can use.
I can't think of any more regulations but to get a big list of them would be nice.
I for one would kill to find a house that the toilets actually flush.

they flush in my house, and every house I've ever lived in.

There was a really funny king of the hill episode on "water-efficient toilets" in which they make a good general point in that "if something has to be used more than twice as much to save less than half per use, you're not saving anything." Though they should have gone with some kind of extreme, rather than 1.6 gallon toilets (maybe like 1/2 gallon toilets).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,200
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4/5/2011 11:34:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 11:29:27 PM, lewis20 wrote:
illegal-
incandescent bulbs
shower heads that produce more than 2.5 gallons per minute.
Toilets have some regulation on how much water they can use.
I can't think of any more regulations but to get a big list of them would be nice.
I for one would kill to find a house that the toilets actually flush.

You can remove the obstruction in the newer shower heads ( I had to do this last month)
You can get larger toilet tanks imported.
Incandescent bulbs, I am not sure of.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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4/5/2011 11:36:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
well the "efficient" toilets here have two settings... which is think is very useful. most of the time you can use the smaller flush, but some... emissions... require full strength flushing... and that option is available.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/5/2011 11:38:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 11:34:35 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 4/5/2011 11:29:27 PM, lewis20 wrote:
illegal-
incandescent bulbs
shower heads that produce more than 2.5 gallons per minute.
Toilets have some regulation on how much water they can use.
I can't think of any more regulations but to get a big list of them would be nice.
I for one would kill to find a house that the toilets actually flush.

You can remove the obstruction in the newer shower heads ( I had to do this last month)
You can get larger toilet tanks imported.
Incandescent bulbs, I am not sure of.

Market them as "personal space heaters" rather than light bulbs.

http://www.dw-world.de...

The guy is making money.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,200
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4/5/2011 11:38:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Also, you can save energy by reducing the thermostat on your water heater, but you will have a greater volumetric flowrate of hot water in the shower to get the desired temperature, thus necessitating the need for a larger hot water tank. A larger hot water tank loses more energy to the ambient, but you do save money since the delta T is not so high to the ambient. It just sucks when you run out of hot water.
Ore_Ele
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4/5/2011 11:39:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 11:36:31 PM, belle wrote:
well the "efficient" toilets here have two settings... which is think is very useful. most of the time you can use the smaller flush, but some... emissions... require full strength flushing... and that option is available.

I've seen those at the library. I like the idea (use the water that you need for that particular...job), though I do wonder about the cost of the technology in them (I haven't looked into those yet).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
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4/5/2011 11:41:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 11:38:52 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Also, you can save energy by reducing the thermostat on your water heater, but you will have a greater volumetric flowrate of hot water in the shower to get the desired temperature, thus necessitating the need for a larger hot water tank. A larger hot water tank loses more energy to the ambient, but you do save money since the delta T is not so high to the ambient. It just sucks when you run out of hot water.

Tankless water heaters are the best. They don't heat a body of water (so that water isn't slowly losing energy over the day) and they never run out of hot water.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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4/5/2011 11:52:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 11:34:35 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 4/5/2011 11:29:27 PM, lewis20 wrote:
illegal-
incandescent bulbs
shower heads that produce more than 2.5 gallons per minute.
Toilets have some regulation on how much water they can use.
I can't think of any more regulations but to get a big list of them would be nice.
I for one would kill to find a house that the toilets actually flush.

You can remove the obstruction in the newer shower heads ( I had to do this last month)
You can get larger toilet tanks imported.
Incandescent bulbs, I am not sure of.

I'd do that if I wasn't living in an apartment.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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4/5/2011 11:53:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 11:33:04 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/5/2011 11:29:27 PM, lewis20 wrote:
illegal-
incandescent bulbs
shower heads that produce more than 2.5 gallons per minute.
Toilets have some regulation on how much water they can use.
I can't think of any more regulations but to get a big list of them would be nice.
I for one would kill to find a house that the toilets actually flush.

they flush in my house, and every house I've ever lived in.

You are a lucky man, luckier than I.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/6/2011 9:59:04 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 11:52:48 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/5/2011 11:34:35 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 4/5/2011 11:29:27 PM, lewis20 wrote:
illegal-
incandescent bulbs
shower heads that produce more than 2.5 gallons per minute.
Toilets have some regulation on how much water they can use.
I can't think of any more regulations but to get a big list of them would be nice.
I for one would kill to find a house that the toilets actually flush.

You can remove the obstruction in the newer shower heads ( I had to do this last month)
You can get larger toilet tanks imported.
Incandescent bulbs, I am not sure of.

I'd do that if I wasn't living in an apartment.

Can't you atleast change showerheads? I understand not being able to change the toilets in your appartment, but you should atleast be able to swap out showerheads.

Also, what is the issue with your toilet? Not enough power when flushing or that it often doesn't flush and you have to hold the lever down for like 30 seconds to get it to flush?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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4/7/2011 2:35:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Anyone who has a toilet that flushes probably does not live in California. There are some expensive new toilet designs that have the equivalent of air compressors to expedite matters. A consequence of the low flush toilets is that municipal sewer systems are becoming clogged and backing up.

* California has a new law against selling black cars. More A/C uses fuel, you see.

* Laws require more efficient electrical appliances. This amounts to requiring motors with more copper.

* In California, electric cars are subsidized with an electric rate at one-third the cost.

*Wildly expensive wind and solar are mandated for use by the power companies.
reddj2
Posts: 239
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4/7/2011 2:44:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 11:52:48 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/5/2011 11:34:35 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 4/5/2011 11:29:27 PM, lewis20 wrote:
illegal-
incandescent bulbs
shower heads that produce more than 2.5 gallons per minute.
Toilets have some regulation on how much water they can use.
I can't think of any more regulations but to get a big list of them would be nice.
I for one would kill to find a house that the toilets actually flush.

You can remove the obstruction in the newer shower heads ( I had to do this last month)
You can get larger toilet tanks imported.
Incandescent bulbs, I am not sure of.

I'd do that if I wasn't living in an apartment.

Just convince the owner to build a small nuclear generator ....worked for my house
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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4/7/2011 2:46:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 11:33:04 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/5/2011 11:29:27 PM, lewis20 wrote:
illegal-
incandescent bulbs
shower heads that produce more than 2.5 gallons per minute.
Toilets have some regulation on how much water they can use.
I can't think of any more regulations but to get a big list of them would be nice.
I for one would kill to find a house that the toilets actually flush.

they flush in my house, and every house I've ever lived in.

Mine don't. They suck hardcore. I've learned to compensate for their tendency to clog by flushing once after the initial dump and then once after every two wipes.
J.Kenyon
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4/7/2011 2:47:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 11:38:52 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Also, you can save energy by reducing the thermostat on your water heater, but you will have a greater volumetric flowrate of hot water in the shower to get the desired temperature, thus necessitating the need for a larger hot water tank. A larger hot water tank loses more energy to the ambient, but you do save money since the delta T is not so high to the ambient. It just sucks when you run out of hot water.

Not proportionately. http://en.wikipedia.org...
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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4/7/2011 3:33:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Some shower heads use a flow restrictor that is like a rubber washer with a small hole in the middle. With this type the shower head can be unscrewed and the restrictor just removed. Recently, the restrictions are often built into the design of the shower head. This calls for power tools. Drill out whatever is restricting the flow. If you are buying a shower head look for a cheap plastic one; its easy to identify the restriction and easy to drill it out.

The Scouts should have a merit badge for defeating this junk.
TheAtheistAllegiance
Posts: 1,251
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4/7/2011 4:44:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I just sh*t in on my dirty laundry and throw it into the wash. I just have to be careful to not wipe with any white T's, otherwise people in public get scared by all the blood and brown that is all too noticeable on that color.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/7/2011 5:17:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 4:44:52 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
I just sh*t in on my dirty laundry and throw it into the wash. I just have to be careful to not wipe with any white T's, otherwise people in public get scared by all the blood and brown that is all too noticeable on that color.

I just crap on the neighbor's lawn in the dead of the night. Then they get mad, saying my dog is pooping on their lawn, and I point out that my dog is a chihuahua, but the neighbor down the block has a great dane.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
PervRat
Posts: 963
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4/7/2011 5:37:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 2:35:54 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
*Wildly expensive wind and solar are mandated for use by the power companies.

Wildly expensive compared with what? The costs to clean the carbon out of the atmosphere caused by coal and oil plants has not been figured into their operational costs, and the operating costs to produce wind or solar are substantially less than the operating costs to produce nuclear power.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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4/7/2011 5:46:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 11:29:27 PM, lewis20 wrote:
illegal-
incandescent bulbs
shower heads that produce more than 2.5 gallons per minute.
Toilets have some regulation on how much water they can use.
I can't think of any more regulations but to get a big list of them would be nice.
I for one would kill to find a house that the toilets actually flush.

Leaded gasoline
Lead Paint
Nuclear power generation is tightly regulated
Nuclear waste storage
Power transmission poles/lines in environmentally sensitive areas, in private property or in Native reservation lands without the tribes' permission
Power production tends to be tightly regulated, given the power market in specific geographic areas tends to be monopolistic
Manipulating energy markets has, at times, been illegal in some states; California used to have strong regulations of this type that were eliminated after successful lobbying by the likes of Enron which then led to the artificial rolling blackouts in California during the 1990s that were the result of Enron intentionally shutting down power stations to create an artificial shortage so that they could jack up rates
Oil drilling, handling, pipelines and transportation and fuel refineries are regulated

There's just too much to even try to get close to a comprehensive list of regulations related to the 'energy' industry
PervRat
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4/7/2011 5:52:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 5:19:10 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
If California is that hard up on water, why do they not use seawater toilets? They got plenty of that!

It takes a lot of power to pump seawater inland. California should look at/consider investing in large-scale desalination plants that could convert sea water to drinkable fresh water, that would be much more worthwhile considering the dooming conflux of dwindling water supply (due to deglaciation caused by global warming and growing population ... supply is continuing to decrease while demand is continuing to increase. Water rationing will get worse and worse.

Water regulations are probably one of the first big environmental battles this nation has faced, as they affected farms/ranches/homesteads in the U.S. in the 1800s ... allowing a ranch to do as it pleased with waterways that crossed private property meant they could completely cut off all water for any ranchland downstream.
RoyLatham
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4/7/2011 6:56:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Laws against toxic waste are not laws requiring energy conservation. Laws requiring water conservation are only indirectly about energy.

The cost of water from the ground, from reservoirs, and from desalinization of seawater has costs roughly in the ratio of 1:2:4. The cost of water has a major impact on farming, but expensive water would not be much of a problem for residential areas, because water costs are low compared to housing and taxes. Desalinization is not used in order to control where people live, and to keep them morally pure in a state of continual drought. However, desalinization also takes energy, which is deeply immoral in California.

A major player in the water problem is the delta smelt, a two-inch long fish that has absolute rights to all the water it needs to stay comfy. Water cannot be taken out of the river to water crops, so orchards are ripped out and farm workers unemployed. Signs proclaiming "Congress created dust bowl." are common in the region.
PervRat
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4/7/2011 7:11:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 6:56:08 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
Laws against toxic waste are not laws requiring energy conservation. Laws requiring water conservation are only indirectly about energy.

The thread title is 'Energy regulations,' not 'energy conservation' and would encompass any regulation related to energy. This would include any regulations affecting industry, such as lead in fuel or disposal of nuclear waste that is the by-product of nuclear energy production.

The cost of water from the ground, from reservoirs, and from desalinization of seawater has costs roughly in the ratio of 1:2:4. The cost of water has a major impact on farming, but expensive water would not be much of a problem for residential areas, because water costs are low compared to housing and taxes. Desalinization is not used in order to control where people live, and to keep them morally pure in a state of continual drought. However, desalinization also takes energy, which is deeply immoral in California.

The amount of available water for inland areas will decrease as deglaciation continues, and the amount of demand for water will continue to rise. Reduction in supply + increase in demand will make the cost of water continue to rise, plus the rising costs in delivering water (electricity and maintenance for pumps, etc.)

A major player in the water problem is the delta smelt, a two-inch long fish that has absolute rights to all the water it needs to stay comfy. Water cannot be taken out of the river to water crops, so orchards are ripped out and farm workers unemployed. Signs proclaiming "Congress created dust bowl." are common in the region.

Fish are part of the ecosystem, and a number of endangered fish would become completely extinct if water had no regulation. Further, overuse of water such as occurs in Colorado can completely cut off all water downstream ... the Colorado river no longer reaches the Pacific Ocean nor even Mexico, for instance.

I was present in Klamath Falls during a similar water fight as the Klamath River was abused by farms and ranchers there. I have sympathy but not much respect for farmers who whine about the survival of a species over their financial well-being. Agriculture gets way too many breaks on anything, and the notion that most produce made in the U.S. is from farms whose owners are poor is a fable ... most U.S. farmers are quite wealthy and accept massive subsidies while are exempt from a lot of labor laws and pay little in tax. Many big-time ranchers are millionares who profit by operating almost entirely on public lands, destroy the ecosystems of those public lands through overgrazing and heavy pollution of natural waterways (and culling natural wildlife that would prey on or compete with their profitable cattle) on taxpayer-owned lands.
Ore_Ele
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4/7/2011 8:42:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 7:11:42 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 4/7/2011 6:56:08 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
Laws against toxic waste are not laws requiring energy conservation. Laws requiring water conservation are only indirectly about energy.

The thread title is 'Energy regulations,' not 'energy conservation' and would encompass any regulation related to energy. This would include any regulations affecting industry, such as lead in fuel or disposal of nuclear waste that is the by-product of nuclear energy production.

The cost of water from the ground, from reservoirs, and from desalinization of seawater has costs roughly in the ratio of 1:2:4. The cost of water has a major impact on farming, but expensive water would not be much of a problem for residential areas, because water costs are low compared to housing and taxes. Desalinization is not used in order to control where people live, and to keep them morally pure in a state of continual drought. However, desalinization also takes energy, which is deeply immoral in California.

The amount of available water for inland areas will decrease as deglaciation continues, and the amount of demand for water will continue to rise. Reduction in supply + increase in demand will make the cost of water continue to rise, plus the rising costs in delivering water (electricity and maintenance for pumps, etc.)

A major player in the water problem is the delta smelt, a two-inch long fish that has absolute rights to all the water it needs to stay comfy. Water cannot be taken out of the river to water crops, so orchards are ripped out and farm workers unemployed. Signs proclaiming "Congress created dust bowl." are common in the region.

Fish are part of the ecosystem, and a number of endangered fish would become completely extinct if water had no regulation. Further, overuse of water such as occurs in Colorado can completely cut off all water downstream ... the Colorado river no longer reaches the Pacific Ocean nor even Mexico, for instance.

I was present in Klamath Falls during a similar water fight as the Klamath River was abused by farms and ranchers there. I have sympathy but not much respect for farmers who whine about the survival of a species over their financial well-being. Agriculture gets way too many breaks on anything, and the notion that most produce made in the U.S. is from farms whose owners are poor is a fable ... most U.S. farmers are quite wealthy and accept massive subsidies while are exempt from a lot of labor laws and pay little in tax. Many big-time ranchers are millionares who profit by operating almost entirely on public lands, destroy the ecosystems of those public lands through overgrazing and heavy pollution of natural waterways (and culling natural wildlife that would prey on or compete with their profitable cattle) on taxpayer-owned lands.

The supply of water inland is based on how much water is added in land each year through precipitation.

Look at it this way.
Precipitation is like the water income.
our water usage is like a monthly bill.
the glaciers are like a savings account.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
RoyLatham
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4/7/2011 11:39:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The thread title is 'Energy regulations,' not 'energy conservation' and would encompass any regulation related to energy. This would include any regulations affecting industry, such as lead in fuel or disposal of nuclear waste that is the by-product of nuclear energy production.

Yesh, sure. Unless you read the examples and what was actually discussed.

The amount of available water for inland areas will decrease as deglaciation continues, and the amount of demand for water will continue to rise. Reduction in supply + increase in demand will make the cost of water continue to rise, plus the rising costs in delivering water (electricity and maintenance for pumps, etc.)

Nonsense. California gets no water from melting glaciers. If glaciers melt elsewhere, that may or may not have an effect. Coal and oil were formed from the tropical vegetation that existed when there were no ice caps or glaciers at all.

I don't doubt the cost will rise, but it could go to the price of desainated water without much of a problem for residential use. Agriculture now uses 75% of the water and the 35 million residents the other 25%. A few places like Morrow Bay and Marin County already use deslinated water.

Fish are part of the ecosystem, and a number of endangered fish would become completely extinct if water had no regulation.

Extinction is not an issue in this case. The law says that the fish cannot in any way be impinged upon. It's rights are absolute. If everyone in the State had to be completely deprived of water to benefit the smelt, then that is required. It think it should suffice that it not go extinct, which would solve the problem.

>>Further, overuse of water such as occurs in Colorado can completely cut off all water downstream ... the Colorado river no longer reaches the Pacific Ocean nor even Mexico, for instance.

Yes, the water supply should be managed. Basically, it should be sold to the highest bidder with revenue to benefit all citizens. Currently, most goes to agriculture at extremely low rates.

I have sympathy but not much respect for farmers who whine about the survival of a species over their financial well-being. ...

I mostly agree with what you say about farmers getting special benefits, but that doesn't justify granting fish absolute rights.

The supply of water inland is based on how much water is added in land each year through precipitation.

Most of the population is on the coast, and a great deal of water is pumped from Northern California to supply Los Angeles, about 300 miles. The pumps are the largest consumers of electricity in the State. If water were auctioned, farming would decrease and consumers needs would be met without a problem. Farming produces 4% of the State's revenue in return for consuming 75% of the water. Barring that, just building deslinization plants would be economical enough. The obstacle is the Liberal religion that forbids using water or energy. It is not rational.
badger
Posts: 11,793
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4/8/2011 5:07:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 11:39:41 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/5/2011 11:36:31 PM, belle wrote:
well the "efficient" toilets here have two settings... which is think is very useful. most of the time you can use the smaller flush, but some... emissions... require full strength flushing... and that option is available.

I've seen those at the library. I like the idea (use the water that you need for that particular...job), though I do wonder about the cost of the technology in them (I haven't looked into those yet).

you're hardly thinking it might be crazy expensive? having two different appropriately sized valves rather than just the one would do it, wouldn't it...
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Ore_Ele
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4/8/2011 5:28:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's only 1 valve. You push upwards for a "light" flush, and push downward for a "heavy" flush.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
badger
Posts: 11,793
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4/8/2011 5:34:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 5:28:51 PM, OreEle wrote:
It's only 1 valve. You push upwards for a "light" flush, and push downward for a "heavy" flush.

more efficient again. hardly costly.
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badger
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4/8/2011 5:37:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 5:34:14 PM, badger wrote:
At 4/8/2011 5:28:51 PM, OreEle wrote:
It's only 1 valve. You push upwards for a "light" flush, and push downward for a "heavy" flush.

more efficient again. hardly costly.

i was thinking of those toilets with the two buttons on the top of the cistern. kinda threw me :) ...they also probably operate on one valve though lol.
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