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Viruses under the Mathematical Microscope

Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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5/10/2011 9:15:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Ok, this is a long video, and not nearly as exciting as the recent drama, however it is interesting because it talks about a new and exciting part of evolutionary biology :
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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5/10/2011 9:19:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Note one of the heavy arguments for intelligent design is that someone/thing had to put things together, they can not all happen by "chance".

Recently we are learning that there is a new mechanism at work, quite different from natural selection and it is self-organization.

In a nutshell, it is basically how certain systems have to organize, behave, change, form because of the way they are.

Think of how water turns to ice at a certain temperature/pressure, it does not do so because of natural selection, it is not "evolving" as we know to ice.

This simple example, in a much more complicated system can lead to changes which we call evolution but are nothing more than "water" turning into "ice".
Floid
Posts: 751
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5/13/2011 11:39:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Recently we are learning that there is a new mechanism at work, quite different from natural selection and it is self-organization.

Like what? What is this other biological mechanism?

Think of how water turns to ice at a certain temperature/pressure, it does not do so because of natural selection, it is not "evolving" as we know to ice.

But of course water and ice aren't biological organisms so that analogy makes no sense.

We all know that water becomes ice because a Creator makes water become ice anyway. There can't possibly be a natural explanation on how that process works...
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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5/13/2011 4:44:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/13/2011 11:39:06 AM, Floid wrote:
Recently we are learning that there is a new mechanism at work, quite different from natural selection and it is self-organization.

Like what? What is this other biological mechanism?

Many such as genetic drift, but the video was dealing with self-organization.

But of course water and ice aren't biological organisms so that analogy makes no sense.

All biological organisms are made up out of the same basic chemicals and are subject to the same fundamental forces. These constrain them to act in certain ways which can be independent of the environment selection.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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5/14/2011 12:26:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
i didn't watch the video. but also, i didn't know self organization was a *new* idea. i suppose its not generally applied to biology since the complexity is high compared to simple chemical processes like melting and freezing...

come to think of it, are they saying that underlying chemical processes can explain certain quirks of biological function or that new, higher level, constraints appear to deal with biological systems?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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5/14/2011 10:14:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/14/2011 12:26:35 AM, belle wrote:
i didn't watch the video. but also, i didn't know self organization was a *new* idea. i suppose its not generally applied to biology since the complexity is high compared to simple chemical processes like melting and freezing...

It is not a new idea in general, just like symmetry groups are not a new ideal in mathematics. However what biologists are finding is that the current understanding of evolutionary theory can not explain what is being observed and it is not nearly as simple as thought (random variation + selective pressure) and many new aspects from different disciplines are being brought into the new synthesis in order to explain the full spectrum of observables.

come to think of it, are they saying that underlying chemical processes can explain certain quirks of biological function or that new, higher level, constraints appear to deal with biological systems?

Yes and Yes, how much is not known, it is an emerging field. It is know that chemical and physical constraints can produce pressures as it were but of what scale of influence is not well known. It is still not even fully settled if natural selection is really dominant over genetic drift.