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The Hover Craft Revisited

SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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7/6/2011 12:43:47 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I was browsing through some articles on airships when I found this: http://en.wikipedia.org... the work on this design craft is limited due to overall constraints in designing the vacuum chambers which end up being much heavier then any possible lift gain, but let us propose that we have found a way to minimize the mass of the vacuum chambers so that the overall lift/weight ratio is not exceeded, could this potentially mean the birth of hovercraft? Please post your opinions.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
SuperRobotWars
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7/6/2011 1:08:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/6/2011 1:01:29 AM, tvellalott wrote:
http://i56.tinypic.com...

Har Har, that is not how this works at all whatsoever, but if you want something that functions on different principles you can view this http://www.popsci.com...
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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7/6/2011 1:11:48 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/6/2011 1:08:35 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 7/6/2011 1:01:29 AM, tvellalott wrote:
http://i56.tinypic.com...

Har Har, that is not how this works at all whatsoever, but if you want something that functions on different principles you can view this http://www.popsci.com...

TROLOLOLOLOLOLOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
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SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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7/6/2011 1:13:10 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/6/2011 1:11:48 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 7/6/2011 1:08:35 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 7/6/2011 1:01:29 AM, tvellalott wrote:
http://i56.tinypic.com...

Har Har, that is not how this works at all whatsoever, but if you want something that functions on different principles you can view this http://www.popsci.com...

TROLOLOLOLOLOLOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

Que?
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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7/6/2011 1:19:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/6/2011 1:13:10 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 7/6/2011 1:11:48 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 7/6/2011 1:08:35 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 7/6/2011 1:01:29 AM, tvellalott wrote:
http://i56.tinypic.com...

Har Har, that is not how this works at all whatsoever, but if you want something that functions on different principles you can view this http://www.popsci.com...

TROLOLOLOLOLOLOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

Que?

Of course it's not how it works, its troll science.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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7/6/2011 1:26:32 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/6/2011 1:19:17 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 7/6/2011 1:13:10 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 7/6/2011 1:11:48 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 7/6/2011 1:08:35 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 7/6/2011 1:01:29 AM, tvellalott wrote:
http://i56.tinypic.com...

Har Har, that is not how this works at all whatsoever, but if you want something that functions on different principles you can view this http://www.popsci.com...

TROLOLOLOLOLOLOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

Que?

Of course it's not how it works, its troll science.

No, vacuum can produce lift, I proposed that what if we found an material that allowed for us to produce vacuum chambers of minimum weight so as to maximize lift, it is legitimate science not troll science.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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7/6/2011 1:28:24 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/6/2011 1:26:32 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
No, vacuum can produce lift, I proposed that what if we found an material that allowed for us to produce vacuum chambers of minimum weight so as to maximize lift, it is legitimate science not troll science.

Are you messing with me?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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7/6/2011 1:34:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/6/2011 1:28:24 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 7/6/2011 1:26:32 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
No, vacuum can produce lift, I proposed that what if we found an material that allowed for us to produce vacuum chambers of minimum weight so as to maximize lift, it is legitimate science not troll science.

Are you messing with me?

No, you can even read about it here:
http://davidszondy.com...
http://blog.modernmechanix.com...
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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7/6/2011 11:29:32 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/6/2011 3:42:22 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
ITT: SRW acts slightly silly.

Que?
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Rob1_Billion
Posts: 1,300
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7/6/2011 12:40:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm not strong in physics but I have given the subject of transportation quite a bit of thought over the years.

There seems to be a universal constraint on our ability to progress technologically. That constraint is energy. We are adept at making things smaller and smarter, but when we try to make things more powerful we always encounter limits. The only way around this is to capture more of the energy from existing power sources like batteries, perhaps by finding a high-temperature superconductor that allows for less electrical resistance.

My point is that your idea does not require energy to work. It does not require burning oil to keep it up there, creating and charging batteries, creating and storing hydrogen, or coming up with some dubious new method of creating energy. Therefore I think it's a very promising idea, and I've considered it myself.

I always thought you had to fill these ships with hydrogen or helium, but I never considered simply evacuating the containers. Yielding and storing these substances is problematic, so I'm excited about the prospects of this idea. All of our transportation needs usually depend on expending large amounts of energy and there's just no way we can keep on going in that direction.
kfc
SuperRobotWars
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7/6/2011 6:01:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/6/2011 12:40:12 PM, Rob1_Billion wrote:
I'm not strong in physics but I have given the subject of transportation quite a bit of thought over the years.

There seems to be a universal constraint on our ability to progress technologically. That constraint is energy. We are adept at making things smaller and smarter, but when we try to make things more powerful we always encounter limits. The only way around this is to capture more of the energy from existing power sources like batteries, perhaps by finding a high-temperature superconductor that allows for less electrical resistance.

My point is that your idea does not require energy to work. It does not require burning oil to keep it up there, creating and charging batteries, creating and storing hydrogen, or coming up with some dubious new method of creating energy. Therefore I think it's a very promising idea, and I've considered it myself.

I always thought you had to fill these ships with hydrogen or helium, but I never considered simply evacuating the containers. Yielding and storing these substances is problematic, so I'm excited about the prospects of this idea. All of our transportation needs usually depend on expending large amounts of energy and there's just no way we can keep on going in that direction.

I was thinking that the eventual micronization of thorium reactors could eventually make this possible [if we find the super-light yet strong material capable of holding the vacuum without collapsing on itself].
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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7/6/2011 7:37:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Question: What would happen if you took a similar mechanical set up of a helicopter and engineered the mechanics to mount underneath the craft instead of on top of the craft as it is on a helicopter? I'm sure this has been experimented with. Can anybody provide any information on the result?
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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7/6/2011 10:51:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/6/2011 1:01:29 AM, tvellalott wrote:
http://i56.tinypic.com...

Lololol, I actually tried to do something like that before. With a magnet tied in front of a car. (Obviously I was quite young)
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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7/7/2011 5:00:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/6/2011 7:37:37 PM, Tiel wrote:
Question: What would happen if you took a similar mechanical set up of a helicopter and engineered the mechanics to mount underneath the craft instead of on top of the craft as it is on a helicopter? I'm sure this has been experimented with. Can anybody provide any information on the result?

It works. It is bloody inefficient though.
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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7/7/2011 4:19:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/7/2011 5:00:08 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 7/6/2011 7:37:37 PM, Tiel wrote:
Question: What would happen if you took a similar mechanical set up of a helicopter and engineered the mechanics to mount underneath the craft instead of on top of the craft as it is on a helicopter? I'm sure this has been experimented with. Can anybody provide any information on the result?

It works. It is bloody inefficient though.

Reply: I see. It would seem that there might be some instability issues. What if you made the craft with a larger base with 4 propeller housings? This would seem to create stability as the pressure base would form a box shape.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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7/9/2011 9:54:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/9/2011 9:43:47 PM, seraine wrote:
SRW, you make me laugh.

Que?
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
seraine
Posts: 734
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7/10/2011 9:28:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/9/2011 9:54:32 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 7/9/2011 9:43:47 PM, seraine wrote:
SRW, you make me laugh.

Que?

Tvellalot is talking about how his troll science is troll science and you take it to mean your science and I can't help but think that you're doing it on purpose.
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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7/10/2011 2:00:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/7/2011 4:19:34 PM, Tiel wrote:
At 7/7/2011 5:00:08 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 7/6/2011 7:37:37 PM, Tiel wrote:
Question: What would happen if you took a similar mechanical set up of a helicopter and engineered the mechanics to mount underneath the craft instead of on top of the craft as it is on a helicopter? I'm sure this has been experimented with. Can anybody provide any information on the result?

It works. It is bloody inefficient though.

Reply: I see. It would seem that there might be some instability issues. What if you made the craft with a larger base with 4 propeller housings? This would seem to create stability as the pressure base would form a box shape.

Again, we're talking about pumping a whole lot of energy into the thing to make it work. Let me put it this way: if you want to ignore energy consumption, then you can fly using any means you can imagine. We can use jet propulsion, rotary-wing, or probably dozens of different ways. Engineers can come up with all types of energy-consumptive ways to propel us through the air.

The real "trick" here is to find something that can solve transportation concerns for EVERYONE, not just 1% of the population who can afford expensive fuel. If we have to continually buy fossil fuels, hydrogen, electricity to charge batteries, etc., then we're not breaking any ground. The interesting thing about the OP is that, if we could just create evacuated cylinders (I'd imagine the best shape would be anyway) that could fit to the side of our crafts to float them, then we could take advantage of gravity instead of burning fuel to try to overcome gravity in a wasteful, temporary fashion. Once you're in the air, the amount of energy to move back and forth is miniscule and could very well just be human-powered. IOWs we could create a human-powered machine that is much faster (not literally, but essentially since air-travel is "as the crow flies") than a car with a large gasoline engine.

The immense amount of energy needed to keep a hovercraft suspended above the ground (by any means) has always been the limiting factor keeping us from advancing in this area. We're much better off side-stepping the problem of gravity instead of trying to overpower it. The problem with evacuated compartments would be the sheer size needed, but once you're in the air we should have plenty of space to work with...
Rob
Lasagna
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7/10/2011 2:20:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The article says that for every liter of air we displace we can lift 1.28 grams. Let's assume we can make an ultra-light, one-person craft that weighs 300 pounds with its passenger

300 lb = 136077.711 g ->174179.47 liters of displaced air

That's a lot of displaced air. Figuring that we won't be able to completely evacuate the chambers, let's round up and say that it will take 200,000 liters of displaced air to get us where we're going. As far as having a light enough material, I'm pretty sure we can bank on carbon micro-fiber technology at some point in the future to come through for us (I hope)... but a small craft that's got the equivalent of 100,000 soda bottles worth of space just for propulsion (of one person!) is pretty disheartening. The air gets lighter as you rise as well so we wouldn't get very far off the ground, and these micro-fiber chambers might be pretty expensive since they're built up from the molecular level, as opposed to just dumping some rubber in a mold.

You'd figure that each craft would have to have one gigantic vacuum chamber as opposed to several small ones, since you'd need to keep the weight of building materials down. One big balloon of a chamber, made of ultra-light material, probably wouldn't be that strong. That means it wouldn't be that safe while you're up, hundreds of feet above the ground.

A craft designed as a mass-transit device would be much more practical, however.
Rob
SuperRobotWars
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7/12/2011 10:27:24 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/10/2011 9:28:39 AM, seraine wrote:
At 7/9/2011 9:54:32 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 7/9/2011 9:43:47 PM, seraine wrote:
SRW, you make me laugh.

Que?

Tvellalot is talking about how his troll science is troll science and you take it to mean your science and I can't help but think that you're doing it on purpose.

Ah!
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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7/12/2011 1:47:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/10/2011 2:20:35 PM, Lasagna wrote:
The article says that for every liter of air we displace we can lift 1.28 grams. Let's assume we can make an ultra-light, one-person craft that weighs 300 pounds with its passenger

300 lb = 136077.711 g ->174179.47 liters of displaced air

That's a lot of displaced air. Figuring that we won't be able to completely evacuate the chambers, let's round up and say that it will take 200,000 liters of displaced air to get us where we're going. As far as having a light enough material, I'm pretty sure we can bank on carbon micro-fiber technology at some point in the future to come through for us (I hope)... but a small craft that's got the equivalent of 100,000 soda bottles worth of space just for propulsion (of one person!) is pretty disheartening. The air gets lighter as you rise as well so we wouldn't get very far off the ground, and these micro-fiber chambers might be pretty expensive since they're built up from the molecular level, as opposed to just dumping some rubber in a mold.

You'd figure that each craft would have to have one gigantic vacuum chamber as opposed to several small ones, since you'd need to keep the weight of building materials down. One big balloon of a chamber, made of ultra-light material, probably wouldn't be that strong. That means it wouldn't be that safe while you're up, hundreds of feet above the ground.

A craft designed as a mass-transit device would be much more practical, however.

Good points.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.