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Bacteria destroy radioactivity

kowalskil
Posts: 68
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8/30/2011 8:21:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Bacteria destroy radioactivity

A claim: radioactivity can be reduced by bacteria. See this link:

http://pages.csam.montclair.edu...

What can possibly be wrong with their laboratory method?

Ludwik Kowalski (see Wikipedia)
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Ludwik Kowalski, author of "Diary of a Former Communist: Thoughts, Feelings, Reality." <http://csam.montclair.edu...

http://csam.montclair.edu...

It is a testimony based on a diary kept between 1946 and 2004 (in the USSR, Poland, France and the USA).

The more people know about proletarian dictatorship the less likely will we experience is. Please share the link with those who might be interested, especially with youn
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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8/30/2011 8:52:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It appears that they performed the laboratory procedures very carefully...The article (http://pages.csam.montclair.edu...) describes that they sealed the flasks "to make sure that cesium does not escape into the air, in the form of a volatile compound"...The results stated that there was a decrease in radioactivity after these steps were taken.

I have a question:
1. What do bacteria have that can 'destroy radioactivity'? Is it an enzyme or compound, or some mechanism in their bodies?
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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8/30/2011 9:20:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/30/2011 9:09:01 PM, Rockylightning wrote:
Isn't it the other way around?

Yes, radioactivity has been demonstrated to destroy bacteria. The process of food irradiation involves the usage of ionized radiation to destroy bacteria, microorganisms, viruses, and so on...

Ionizing radiation leads to radiolysis that is responsible for the destruction of bacteria.
"When ionizing radiation strikes bacteria and other microbes, its high energy breaks chemical bonds in molecules that are vital for cell growth and integrity. As a result, the microbes die, or can no longer multiply causing illness or spoilage.

Breaking chemical bonds with radiation is known as radiolysis." http://www.epa.gov...

However, the thread is focused on a new finding that claims that bacteria can break down radiation (decreased levels of radiation were recorded in seals with samples of bacteria).
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
belle
Posts: 4,113
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8/31/2011 12:58:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
first of all they don't even mention what type of bacteria it is, which makes me somewhat suspicious. furthermore, if you read the full version it doesn't even appear to be about that. since its translated from russian its hard to tell, but the only microbial species mentioned by name is a yeast. also, the phrase "eating radiation" is an extremely misleading one. in the past they have found bacteria that can convert uranium metabolically into uraninite... but uraninite is still radioactive.

there are also extremophiles that can survive large doses of radiation even if they dont really use it for anything... and if i recall correctly they found a black mold growing in the old chernobyl reactor that used x-rays like normal plants use sunlight. those you could say actually do "eat radiation".
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/31/2011 10:27:33 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
The link is not working for me, so I have a challenging time finding out exactly what they did.

But, if I were to take a guess, I would say the study is flawed because Cs decays via beta decay (meaning it emits an electron). This is often detected by placing in a magnetic field which directs the electrons towards a sensor. Beta radiation does not have very powerful penetration (that's what she said) and so some of the radiation would likely be absorbed by the baterial and would ionize them. This does not mean they are "eating" it, but merely being poisoned by it, standard radiation poisoning/burn (not sure if it classifies as burn or poison on the microbiotic level).

So, it would be expected that radiation levels would drop, just like it would be expected that they would drop if you placed the radiation in a wood box (as the wood absorbs and becomes ionized).

If they are arguing that the amount of Cs is lower than standard decay (based on volume rather than radiation detected), then that is easily explained by Cs being an Alkali metal (group 1). Elements in the same group have similar bonding capabilities (like CO2 and SiO2, or most Bases) and other characteristics.

So Cs can be a replacement for K in most compounds (Potassium being one of the vital elements for most life). This gives it a route to get into the bateria, thus making it appear that more is gone, although it is still present and emitting radiation (which the bateria are being poisoned by).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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9/2/2011 9:38:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
The link is broken. It isn't possible that bacteria destroy radioactivity. Radioactive decay is not affected by chemical processes, and that has been extremely well tested. For example, carbon dating is accurately performed on the carbon captured in iron. Heating to red hot and forging have no effect on the rate of decay in the carbon.
kowalskil
Posts: 68
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9/7/2011 11:40:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/30/2011 8:52:56 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
It appears that they performed the laboratory procedures very carefully...The article (http://pages.csam.montclair.edu...) describes that they sealed the flasks "to make sure that cesium does not escape into the air, in the form of a volatile compound"...The results stated that there was a decrease in radioactivity after these steps were taken.

I have a question:
1. What do bacteria have that can 'destroy radioactivity'? Is it an enzyme or compound, or some mechanism in their bodies?

I wish I knew how to answer this question. One thing is clear; if Cs-137 becomes less radioactive then the number of Cs-137 atoms must be lower.

Ludwik Kowalski (see Wikipedia)
.
Ludwik Kowalski, author of "Diary of a Former Communist: Thoughts, Feelings, Reality." <http://csam.montclair.edu...

http://csam.montclair.edu...

It is a testimony based on a diary kept between 1946 and 2004 (in the USSR, Poland, France and the USA).

The more people know about proletarian dictatorship the less likely will we experience is. Please share the link with those who might be interested, especially with youn
kowalskil
Posts: 68
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9/7/2011 11:50:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 9:38:56 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
The link is broken. It isn't possible that bacteria destroy radioactivity. Radioactive decay is not affected by chemical processes, and that has been extremely well tested. For example, carbon dating is accurately performed on the carbon captured in iron. Heating to red hot and forging have no effect on the rate of decay in the carbon.

Yes indeed. Many attempts to speed up radioactive decay, going back to Marie and Pierre Curie, resulted in failures. That is why I am also pessimistic. But I am ready to accept the claim, if it is independently confirmed in other laboratories. In science, as we learned, "theories guide but experiments decide." That is the essence of the scientific validation of claims.
Ludwik Kowalski, author of "Diary of a Former Communist: Thoughts, Feelings, Reality." <http://csam.montclair.edu...

http://csam.montclair.edu...

It is a testimony based on a diary kept between 1946 and 2004 (in the USSR, Poland, France and the USA).

The more people know about proletarian dictatorship the less likely will we experience is. Please share the link with those who might be interested, especially with youn
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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9/7/2011 11:52:14 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/7/2011 11:40:56 AM, kowalskil wrote:
At 8/30/2011 8:52:56 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
It appears that they performed the laboratory procedures very carefully...The article (http://pages.csam.montclair.edu...) describes that they sealed the flasks "to make sure that cesium does not escape into the air, in the form of a volatile compound"...The results stated that there was a decrease in radioactivity after these steps were taken.

I have a question:
1. What do bacteria have that can 'destroy radioactivity'? Is it an enzyme or compound, or some mechanism in their bodies?

I wish I knew how to answer this question. One thing is clear; if Cs-137 becomes less radioactive then the number of Cs-137 atoms must be lower.

Not true. As said, the way that we determine the radioactivity of something, is by detecting the (in the case of Cs137) the beta particles being omitted. If something is getting in the way, between the sensor and radioactive material, then it will appear that there is less radiation, when there isn't.

Saying the bacteria are "eating" the radiation is like saying that if you put you hand over Cs137, so the radiation gets absorbed into your hard, rather than making it to the sensor, your hand is "eating" the radiation.


Ludwik Kowalski (see Wikipedia)
.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
kowalskil
Posts: 68
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9/7/2011 11:52:54 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/31/2011 5:27:18 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Well at least they have a way to clean up Chernobyl, just dump bacteria on it, lol.

I wish it were so simple. It is too early to speculate about practical applications.

Ludwik Kowalski (see Wikipedia)
.
Ludwik Kowalski, author of "Diary of a Former Communist: Thoughts, Feelings, Reality." <http://csam.montclair.edu...

http://csam.montclair.edu...

It is a testimony based on a diary kept between 1946 and 2004 (in the USSR, Poland, France and the USA).

The more people know about proletarian dictatorship the less likely will we experience is. Please share the link with those who might be interested, especially with youn