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Do you agree with Hawking about aliens?

kogline
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10/6/2011 1:11:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
yes, any race that is even more advanced than us is likely unpleasant to be around. we have fights between different color versions of the same species and feel that justifies killing eachother, can you imagine completely different species?

especially if the species is very differnt from ours such as in ender's game where they are a giant ant hive colony with one sentient brain that controls the colony telepathically. they sent two invasion forces that devastated our planet because they didn't even see us as sentient. they later regretted their assault when the saw ender was sentient. but even then they commonly warred amongst themselves for resources.
if state farm has perfected teleportation technology why do they still sell car insurance?
Illegalcombatant
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10/6/2011 1:20:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/5/2011 11:37:25 PM, Lasagna wrote:


Hawking believes that aliens should be avoided and even hid from. Do you agree?

Unfortunately yes. Its a nice thought that advanced technological life forms would have nothing but the best intentions for us, but if planet earth is the example then the advanced life form will conquer the lesser life form one way or another.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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10/7/2011 1:43:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/6/2011 1:11:03 AM, kogline wrote:
yes, any race that is even more advanced than us is likely unpleasant to be around. we have fights between different color versions of the same species and feel that justifies killing eachother, can you imagine completely different species?

especially if the species is very differnt from ours such as in ender's game where they are a giant ant hive colony with one sentient brain that controls the colony telepathically. they sent two invasion forces that devastated our planet because they didn't even see us as sentient. they later regretted their assault when the saw ender was sentient. but even then they commonly warred amongst themselves for resources.

this conclusion seems backwards to me, as our society advances we get less dangerous, and less racist and hateful. Why wouldn't an advanced society be like this. The fear would be they advanced differently and being more advanced could easily wipe us out. The point is, that human advancement is a bad example for this argument.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

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CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/7/2011 3:57:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If the aliens had any sense, they'd wipe us out.

I'd hide.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ore_Ele
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10/7/2011 4:01:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Avoiding the Unknown, because you never know if it might be deadly or not (better safe than sorry and all the other corny phrases) has been a highly successful evolutionary tactic.

Of course, as you learn about something, you can open up.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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10/7/2011 4:33:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/7/2011 1:43:05 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 10/6/2011 1:11:03 AM, kogline wrote:
yes, any race that is even more advanced than us is likely unpleasant to be around. we have fights between different color versions of the same species and feel that justifies killing eachother, can you imagine completely different species?

especially if the species is very differnt from ours such as in ender's game where they are a giant ant hive colony with one sentient brain that controls the colony telepathically. they sent two invasion forces that devastated our planet because they didn't even see us as sentient. they later regretted their assault when the saw ender was sentient. but even then they commonly warred amongst themselves for resources.


this conclusion seems backwards to me, as our society advances we get less dangerous, and less racist and hateful. Why wouldn't an advanced society be like this. The fear would be they advanced differently and being more advanced could easily wipe us out. The point is, that human advancement is a bad example for this argument.

Yeah, the last century was just filled with lollipops and gumdrops for all the world to enjoy. I would contend that our hate is no different, our human condition has not changed much in thousands of years. We reformulate our hate, and we find different pretexts to expell our anger and resentments. Again, the human condition remains the same.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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10/7/2011 5:36:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/7/2011 4:33:09 PM, innomen wrote:
At 10/7/2011 1:43:05 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 10/6/2011 1:11:03 AM, kogline wrote:
yes, any race that is even more advanced than us is likely unpleasant to be around. we have fights between different color versions of the same species and feel that justifies killing eachother, can you imagine completely different species?

especially if the species is very differnt from ours such as in ender's game where they are a giant ant hive colony with one sentient brain that controls the colony telepathically. they sent two invasion forces that devastated our planet because they didn't even see us as sentient. they later regretted their assault when the saw ender was sentient. but even then they commonly warred amongst themselves for resources.


this conclusion seems backwards to me, as our society advances we get less dangerous, and less racist and hateful. Why wouldn't an advanced society be like this. The fear would be they advanced differently and being more advanced could easily wipe us out. The point is, that human advancement is a bad example for this argument.

Yeah, the last century was just filled with lollipops and gumdrops for all the world to enjoy. I would contend that our hate is no different, our human condition has not changed much in thousands of years. We reformulate our hate, and we find different pretexts to expell our anger and resentments. Again, the human condition remains the same.

Not really the average human is far more compassionate, just hate and anger have more advanced ways to express themselves. It shows a complete lack of understanding of human history to think what we have done this century is as bad as previous centuries when we take the factor of technology out of the equation.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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10/7/2011 5:38:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
All one needs to do is look at religions to see this advancement. Christians use to burn witches in droves, the more advanced christians become this does not happen anymore(in advanced areas of the world). Humans have progressed over time, while it has not been a straight line, the dark ages for example, it overall has been progressive.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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10/8/2011 4:19:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
All I know is, making space ships takes work, so if aliens make a spaceship and drag it across the galaxy to find our planet, I really doubt they just want to take photos.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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10/8/2011 4:25:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/5/2011 11:37:25 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Hawking believes that aliens should be avoided and even hid from. Do you agree?:

Obviously it places the cart before the horse and relies on massive a priori assumptions, so it's a little ridiculous.

There's no evidence that aliens are hostile.

There's no evidence that aliens are intelligent, let alone more intelligent than humans.

There's no clear evidence that aliens even exist.

So to say that non-existent things should be avoided is like saying that the Leprechauns should be avoided because they might be hostile.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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10/8/2011 5:06:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/8/2011 4:25:16 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 10/5/2011 11:37:25 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Hawking believes that aliens should be avoided and even hid from. Do you agree?:

Obviously it places the cart before the horse and relies on massive a priori assumptions, so it's a little ridiculous.

There's no evidence that aliens are hostile.

There's no evidence that aliens are intelligent, let alone more intelligent than humans.

There's no clear evidence that aliens even exist.

So to say that non-existent things should be avoided is like saying that the Leprechauns should be avoided because they might be hostile.

It's not completely out of whack to assume that:
1) Aliens may exist and
2) We may be able to use some of our knowledge of ourselves to study them theoretically.
Rob
PARADIGM_L0ST
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10/8/2011 5:16:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's not completely out of whack to assume that:
1) Aliens may exist and
2) We may be able to use some of our knowledge of ourselves to study them theoretically.:

Just because the possibility exists doesn't mean it makes sense to be reasonably fearful of things we don't even know exist. Since we have no solid evidence to suggest that they exist, we could just as easily assume that they would have the very best of intentions with us provided they did exist. Both scenarios are equally probable when there is literally nothing to base either assumption on in the first place.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/8/2011 5:17:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Yeah, the assumption is, that if we meet an alien species, we won't know anything about it.

For all we know, these aliens travel the universe to eat anything in the shape of a spoon. Imagine that! They invade our world, and eat all of our spoons! Have you ever tried eating cereal with chopsticks?
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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10/8/2011 5:24:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/8/2011 4:25:16 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 10/5/2011 11:37:25 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Hawking believes that aliens should be avoided and even hid from. Do you agree?:

Obviously it places the cart before the horse and relies on massive a priori assumptions, so it's a little ridiculous.

There's no evidence that aliens are hostile.

There's no evidence that aliens are intelligent, let alone more intelligent than humans.

There's no clear evidence that aliens even exist.

So to say that non-existent things should be avoided is like saying that the Leprechauns should be avoided because they might be hostile.

Buzz kill.

If Aliens are capable of coming and looking for us, we are unlikely to be able to avoid or hide from them.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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10/9/2011 4:56:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/8/2011 5:22:18 PM, Kinesis wrote:
We could make more spoons. If they ate our spoon machines, however, God help us all.

ROFL.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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10/9/2011 5:10:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/8/2011 4:19:08 PM, Wnope wrote:
All I know is, making space ships takes work, so if aliens make a spaceship and drag it across the galaxy to find our planet, I really doubt they just want to take photos.

I agree with you both you and Innomen.

Contrary to the claim that civilization is getting better we have seen the most destruction in just the last 150 years than our entire history.

We see that the reduction of religion actually caused a paradigm shift to a utilitarian use of people rather than an equality or transcendent value that religion proposed over the coarse of history.

It would depend if Religion is true and the alien race would hold a value system that would assert our equality or if they would merely hold us as a potential resource.

If we rely on our own progress in history I would worry if I held an athiestic viewpoint and we encountered an alien race.
Joseph_Mengele
Posts: 388
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10/9/2011 5:23:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If humans were to come in contact with aliens such as the ones that Hawking is referencing, I would personally support discrimination against aliens.

Who's with me?
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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10/9/2011 5:48:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 5:23:31 PM, Joseph_Mengele wrote:
If humans were to come in contact with aliens such as the ones that Hawking is referencing, I would personally support discrimination against aliens.

Who's with me?

LOL.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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10/9/2011 6:45:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 5:10:53 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 10/8/2011 4:19:08 PM, Wnope wrote:
All I know is, making space ships takes work, so if aliens make a spaceship and drag it across the galaxy to find our planet, I really doubt they just want to take photos.

I agree with you both you and Innomen.

Contrary to the claim that civilization is getting better we have seen the most destruction in just the last 150 years than our entire history.

We see that the reduction of religion actually caused a paradigm shift to a utilitarian use of people rather than an equality or transcendent value that religion proposed over the coarse of history.

It would depend if Religion is true and the alien race would hold a value system that would assert our equality or if they would merely hold us as a potential resource.

If we rely on our own progress in history I would worry if I held an athiestic viewpoint and we encountered an alien race.

Don't let people just assert this crap that religion gave us great humanistic values, and the decline of religion results in a decline of humanistic values.

Lets have a look religious humanistic values shall we ?

1) Women as inferior (God made woman for the man)
2) Divine right of kings (God is the ultimate king, so if you don't obey the king you don't obey God, now shut up peasant and enjoy your life of poverty.)
3) Burn the heretics (They are going to hell anyway)
4) Burn their children too (Satans spawn)
5) We are the master/chosen race by God, the others are inferior, feel free to treat them as animals.
6) Suppression of critical thinking (If you don't adhere to dogma your going to hell)
7) Slavery (If its so wrong why does God have rules for slavery in the first place eh ?)
8) It is Gods will thus its ok to do. Rape, torture, slavery.
9) Superstition, anything that is mysterious or we don't understand is the work of the supernatural
10) Dogma/doctrine over reason and evidence
11) Dogma/doctrine no matter what the cost to peoples well being
12) You have no self worth, your worth is dependent on God, without God you are nothing you wicked sinner who deserves eternal torment.............ps Jesus loves you.

If the aliens have a religion, you had better hope its not anything like christianity/islam etc.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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10/9/2011 7:14:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/5/2011 11:37:25 PM, Lasagna wrote:


Hawking believes that aliens should be avoided and even hid from. Do you agree?

Partly.

My opinion is that it is highly unlikely that aliens will be particularly 'moral'. We aren't after all.

However if they are superior to us in tech then we have no real chance to hide or isolate ourselves from them. If inferior, it is irrelevant as we can do what we want.

However I believe that advanced Aliens will not come to rape and destroy, they will come to study some animals. Unpleasent for the people they find but not ultimately very bad for the species.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Rockylightning
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10/10/2011 2:57:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 5:23:31 PM, Joseph_Mengele wrote:
If humans were to come in contact with rabbits such as the ones that Hawking is referencing, I would personally support discrimination against rabbits.

Who's with me?

Fixed, and yes.
racismisawesome
Posts: 26
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10/10/2011 3:43:45 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/5/2011 11:37:25 PM, Lasagna wrote:


Hawking believes that aliens should be avoided and even hid from. Do you agree?

"probably dont exist within 100 lightyears because we would have detected their radio signals"

Well if they are more advanced than us who says they use radio signals? Maybe they use more advanced technology we dont know of yet.

I would not want to avoid aliens, I would rather find aliens and be destroyed by them, than hide and never know if they exist. They are just as likely to be friendly and share technology with us. I think aliens might be hiding from us because they are scared we will wage war with them.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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10/10/2011 4:01:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/10/2011 3:43:45 AM, racismisawesome wrote:
At 10/5/2011 11:37:25 PM, Lasagna wrote:

Hawking believes that aliens should be avoided and even hid from. Do you agree?

"probably dont exist within 100 lightyears because we would have detected their radio signals"

Well if they are more advanced than us who says they use radio signals? Maybe they use more advanced technology we dont know of yet.

They may have used radio signals at some point, it is likely that they did. So chances are 'good' they are not very close to us.

I would not want to avoid aliens, I would rather find aliens and be destroyed by them, than hide and never know if they exist. They are just as likely to be friendly and share technology with us. I think aliens might be hiding from us because they are scared we will wage war with them.

Aliens who are capable of getting between the Stars in any sort of appreciable time are likely to be so far advanced that we would be quite unable to fight them.

Of course if they arrive on a sleeper ship or a generation ship then that may be different.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Gileandos
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10/10/2011 12:22:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 6:45:33 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 10/9/2011 5:10:53 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 10/8/2011 4:19:08 PM, Wnope wrote:
All I know is, making space ships takes work, so if aliens make a spaceship and drag it across the galaxy to find our planet, I really doubt they just want to take photos.

I agree with you both you and Innomen.

Contrary to the claim that civilization is getting better we have seen the most destruction in just the last 150 years than our entire history.

We see that the reduction of religion actually caused a paradigm shift to a utilitarian use of people rather than an equality or transcendent value that religion proposed over the coarse of history.

It would depend if Religion is true and the alien race would hold a value system that would assert our equality or if they would merely hold us as a potential resource.

If we rely on our own progress in history I would worry if I held an athiestic viewpoint and we encountered an alien race.

Don't let people just assert this crap that religion gave us great humanistic values, and the decline of religion results in a decline of humanistic values.

Lets have a look religious humanistic values shall we ?

1) Women as inferior (God made woman for the man)
Correction. Women are subservient not inferior in Christianity. Same as you are required to submit to Police though you are not inferior to a police officer.

2) Divine right of kings (God is the ultimate king, so if you don't obey the king you don't obey God, now shut up peasant and enjoy your life of poverty.)
I have no problem with Divine right of rule. I also have no problem by rule of consent of the governed. It is why there are two places for the dead. Heaven and Hell. Feel free to convince demons that you are sharing Hell with that you do not consent to being raped...

3) Burn the heretics (They are going to hell anyway)
I do not believe that was the motivation. I am sure that Stalin and Mao were both very gentle and loving to opposing viewpoints. Wait... aren't those two athiestic/naturalistic regimes responsible for more deaths than any religion?

4) Burn their children too (Satans spawn)
I believe that was generational. I am certain communist regimes in the 20th century were really nice to the children.... wait aren't those athiestic regimes responsible for taking children from parents and enslaving them to serve the state? Murdering any dissenting opinions who responded?

5) We are the master/chosen race by God, the others are inferior, feel free to treat them as animals.
I believe that was a naturalistic regime callled Nazism who did that. Do you know what a religion is?

6) Suppression of critical thinking (If you don't adhere to dogma your going to hell)
I believe only one religion would fall into that criteria. Hmm, I wonder if any athiestic regimes have ever suppressed critical thinking.

7) Slavery (If its so wrong why does God have rules for slavery in the first place eh ?)
I have been converted! Communism is the pinnacle of freedom and free speech! Lets all move to a 1930's communistic regime. I am sold brotha!

BTW I believe a little more study, would reveal that indeed slavery was an economic solution to avoid the types of poverty you encounter in third world countries. It was a source of provision for both the "single mother" for example and the slave owner. Both would benefit in a way that would not be "communistic" in appraoch to the problem. If the poor person has no money he only has himself/herself to sell. The other approach is to take money from the rich and just give it to them. It is a free market solution to poverty that resulted in noone living in slums.

8) It is Gods will thus its ok to do. Rape, torture, slavery.
I do not understand why you would make this statement. Who are you to claim these things are wrong when God has already claimed they are wrong. God lays out the epistimological appraoch to what is good and bad. Who are you to lay out a new approach?

Same concept I believe murder is wrong. Nazi's believe murder is wrong. The problem is that they and I differ in how we define who can be murdered. Nazi's feel cooking Jew children in ovens is no problem and not murder. I disagree.

Your problem is you disagree with God's definitions. Why should I go with your definitions rather than his?

9) Superstition, anything that is mysterious or we don't understand is the work of the supernatural
Correct, unless it is defined as natural.

10) Dogma/doctrine over reason and evidence
Hmmm, again athiesm seems to be covered in this statement.

11) Dogma/doctrine no matter what the cost to peoples well being
Marxism, communism and athiesm seems to again be covered here.

12) You have no self worth, your worth is dependent on God, without God you are nothing you wicked sinner who deserves eternal torment.............ps Jesus loves you.

That is like complaining about a scientist that states you have no value but the air that you breath. Without the correct mixture of gases you are worthless.
The Thiestic claim is clear that God is a necessary force behind your existence and continued existence. To go to war with "air" is just as futile.

The second claim there is without God you are choosing to remain a wicked sinner deserving your sentence. ps Jesus loves you enough to give you a way to be cleaned from the sin.

I believe your entire point here missed the concepts.


If the aliens have a religion, you had better hope its not anything like christianity/islam etc.

Considering all of your statements lacked an intellectual honesty backing them I would deny the validity of this statement.
Cobo
Posts: 556
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10/10/2011 7:29:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 5:23:31 PM, Joseph_Mengele wrote:
If humans were to come in contact with aliens such as the ones that Hawking is referencing, I would personally support discrimination against aliens.

Who's with me?

I think that would unite all races under one banner of humanity
So it would probably be a good thing.
Church of the BANHAMMER GODS priest