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Evolution after humans

Indophile
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11/11/2011 1:18:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Where will evolution lead us humans from here?

What would humans look like in say a million or a hundred million years from now?
You will say that I don't really know you
And it will be true.
CosmicAlfonzo
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11/11/2011 3:46:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Evolution is no longer going to be dominantly on the biological level.

Biological evolution is no longer the most efficient means of evolution. From this point on, technological evolution is going to be the vehicle for this.

That far in the future, there will probably just be robots. They will be like something beyond what we can imagine.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Crede
Posts: 455
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11/11/2011 4:05:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/11/2011 3:46:31 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Evolution is no longer going to be dominantly on the biological level.

Biological evolution is no longer the most efficient means of evolution. From this point on, technological evolution is going to be the vehicle for this.

That far in the future, there will probably just be robots. They will be like something beyond what we can imagine.

Hope they still enjoy tea.
CosmicAlfonzo
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11/11/2011 4:19:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Space tea.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Indophile
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11/11/2011 4:49:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/11/2011 3:46:31 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Evolution is no longer going to be dominantly on the biological level.

Biological evolution is no longer the most efficient means of evolution. From this point on, technological evolution is going to be the vehicle for this.

That far in the future, there will probably just be robots. They will be like something beyond what we can imagine.

Does that stop you from imagining?
You will say that I don't really know you
And it will be true.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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11/11/2011 7:16:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's hard to predict, because we don't know what kind of drastic turns the future will make that might have a massive impact on natural selection.

If things go at the current rate though, and assuming we don't get replaced/are wiped out....

http://www.lockergnome.com...

Nah, just kidding, we are probably going to evolve into hyper intelligent fat slug beasts.

And by intelligent, I actually mean that speech is done through the violation of body orifices.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Crede
Posts: 455
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11/13/2011 12:01:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/11/2011 3:46:31 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Evolution is no longer going to be dominantly on the biological level.

Biological evolution is no longer the most efficient means of evolution. From this point on, technological evolution is going to be the vehicle for this.

That far in the future, there will probably just be robots. They will be like something beyond what we can imagine.

I agree here....minus the robot part. If evolution is true then species evolve on an adaptation process at best suits the needs for survival. Technology is that new adaptation and therefore it is our minds that will evolve.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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11/13/2011 12:11:52 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
the evolution of our minds can still be considered biological. unless you mean the evolution of ideas rather than the evolution of our brains....
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
CosmicAlfonzo
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11/13/2011 12:20:00 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 12:01:35 AM, Crede wrote:
At 11/11/2011 3:46:31 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Evolution is no longer going to be dominantly on the biological level.

Biological evolution is no longer the most efficient means of evolution. From this point on, technological evolution is going to be the vehicle for this.

That far in the future, there will probably just be robots. They will be like something beyond what we can imagine.

I agree here....minus the robot part. If evolution is true then species evolve on an adaptation process at best suits the needs for survival. Technology is that new adaptation and therefore it is our minds that will evolve.

It is very likely that we will end up creating a mind superior than what the human can do, and if this mind is given creative freedom to do the same... Well...

Technological singularity, dawg.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/13/2011 12:30:04 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 12:20:00 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 11/13/2011 12:01:35 AM, Crede wrote:
At 11/11/2011 3:46:31 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Evolution is no longer going to be dominantly on the biological level.

Biological evolution is no longer the most efficient means of evolution. From this point on, technological evolution is going to be the vehicle for this.

That far in the future, there will probably just be robots. They will be like something beyond what we can imagine.

I agree here....minus the robot part. If evolution is true then species evolve on an adaptation process at best suits the needs for survival. Technology is that new adaptation and therefore it is our minds that will evolve.

It is very likely that we will end up creating a mind superior than what the human can do, and if this mind is given creative freedom to do the same... Well...

Technological singularity, dawg.

I believe that creating something that exceeds our own capacity is paradoxical and nonsensical.

It is tantamount to creating something that we don't understand. When you reduce this mathematically (the language in which science and engineering is natively written, then translated), you realize that this is only possible if we use properties we don't understand and cause them to interact in ways that we can only partially predict in order to accommodate the necessary variables that would make the mathematical statement that explains it sensible. In that regard, we can only "create" biological things that we don't understand, and only by mistake. Mechanically, it is literally impossible.
CosmicAlfonzo
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11/13/2011 12:38:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 12:30:04 AM, Ren wrote:
At 11/13/2011 12:20:00 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 11/13/2011 12:01:35 AM, Crede wrote:
At 11/11/2011 3:46:31 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Evolution is no longer going to be dominantly on the biological level.

Biological evolution is no longer the most efficient means of evolution. From this point on, technological evolution is going to be the vehicle for this.

That far in the future, there will probably just be robots. They will be like something beyond what we can imagine.

I agree here....minus the robot part. If evolution is true then species evolve on an adaptation process at best suits the needs for survival. Technology is that new adaptation and therefore it is our minds that will evolve.

It is very likely that we will end up creating a mind superior than what the human can do, and if this mind is given creative freedom to do the same... Well...

Technological singularity, dawg.

I believe that creating something that exceeds our own capacity is paradoxical and nonsensical.

It is tantamount to creating something that we don't understand. When you reduce this mathematically (the language in which science and engineering is natively written, then translated), you realize that this is only possible if we use properties we don't understand and cause them to interact in ways that we can only partially predict in order to accommodate the necessary variables that would make the mathematical statement that explains it sensible. In that regard, we can only "create" biological things that we don't understand, and only by mistake. Mechanically, it is literally impossible.

You know, it isn't very easy to find a programmer who is able to create a language out of binary.

You don't have to completely understand the tools you are using to make greater tools. We are already able to use technology to augment our perceptions and abilities. Computers are already better thinkers than us in certain ways.

The idea that we are incapable of creating a super intelligence seems more far off to me, especially if you look at the exponential rate of technological advancement over the last 100 years ALONE.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ren
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11/13/2011 12:48:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 12:38:06 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
You know, it isn't very easy to find a programmer who is able to create a language out of binary.

You don't have to completely understand the tools you are using to make greater tools. We are already able to use technology to augment our perceptions and abilities. Computers are already better thinkers than us in certain ways.

Your logic is a little off -- being able to understand and manipulate binary language gives you greater control over a computer than any programming tool ever could.

So, you literally proved yourself wrong -- just as a programmer will never be able to understand a computer enough to manipulate it in the way a computer interface designer could, we could never design a computer that will have a greater capacity than whomever created it.

How on earth is any computer that exists a "better thinker" than humans? Let me give you an example of the vast difference between our current mechanical computations and the human brain:

The current version of Microsoft Excel has a 15 digit number limit, as larger numbers would result in functions that exceed the capacity of the program.

Nikola Tesla, on the other hand, could solve physics functions almost instantly in his head more than 100 years ago -- and the human brain evolves with every generation.

The idea that we are incapable of creating a super intelligence seems more far off to me, especially if you look at the exponential rate of technological advancement over the last 100 years ALONE.

It will never catch up to the human mind. Think about it.

How could we possibly create a machine that will produce an inconceivable output? What would be the function for that? Literally, a language system based entirely on variables that produces its own quantities, then maneuvers and manipulates those quantities with no intervention, to result in commands that we cannot understand?

We can just as well create God in a laboratory.
belle
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11/13/2011 12:49:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 12:38:06 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
You don't have to completely understand the tools you are using to make greater tools. We are already able to use technology to augment our perceptions and abilities. Computers are already better thinkers than us in certain ways.

The idea that we are incapable of creating a super intelligence seems more far off to me, especially if you look at the exponential rate of technological advancement over the last 100 years ALONE.

while its true that people use tools they don't understand all the time, i am not sure its also true that people often invent things that they are inherently incapable of understanding no matter how hard they try. no doubt that accidents happen, and i do think that someone will eventually stumble onto some technology that is smarter than us, but i doubt that it will be as soon as you think (although the rate of technological advance in the past 100 years has indeed been terrifyingly fast lol). it just seems like that kind of lucky accident would be extremely rare.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Ren
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11/13/2011 1:03:02 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 12:49:41 AM, belle wrote:
while its true that people use tools they don't understand all the time

...it remains untrue that anyone has ever created a tool that he or she doesn't understand.
CosmicAlfonzo
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11/13/2011 1:03:25 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 12:48:08 AM, Ren wrote:
At 11/13/2011 12:38:06 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
You know, it isn't very easy to find a programmer who is able to create a language out of binary.

You don't have to completely understand the tools you are using to make greater tools. We are already able to use technology to augment our perceptions and abilities. Computers are already better thinkers than us in certain ways.

Your logic is a little off -- being able to understand and manipulate binary language gives you greater control over a computer than any programming tool ever could.

So, you literally proved yourself wrong -- just as a programmer will never be able to understand a computer enough to manipulate it in the way a computer interface designer could, we could never design a computer that will have a greater capacity than whomever created it.


Nobody programs in straight binary. Programmers built languages from binary, and even languages on top of the languages that were built off of binary.

The thing is, none of the people involved understand the whole thing. The majority of programs are done by multiple people who all have their own area of expertise.

Take a contemporary video game. Do you think that any one programmer could do all of that? No, and they do not. They split the workload not just to get things done faster, but because people tend to specialize in certain areas pertaining to the final project.

The first created intelligence is not going to be made by any one person, it is going to be the product of a whole team of devoted scientists(or maybe a few teenagers in a garage for the science fair, which almost sounds like it could be the plot to a movie from the 80s)

Someone who creates a programming language isn't necessarily going to be able to do anything really fancy with it.. However, they give someone else the ability to do something fancy with it. The creator of C++ probably had no idea the kind of things people would be doing with it in the future.

How on earth is any computer that exists a "better thinker" than humans? Let me give you an example of the vast difference between our current mechanical computations and the human brain:

The current version of Microsoft Excel has a 15 digit number limit, as larger numbers would result in functions that exceed the capacity of the program.

Nikola Tesla, on the other hand, could solve physics functions almost instantly in his head more than 100 years ago -- and the human brain evolves with every generation.


Really? Microsoft Excel? This is the example you are using?

The idea that we are incapable of creating a super intelligence seems more far off to me, especially if you look at the exponential rate of technological advancement over the last 100 years ALONE.

It will never catch up to the human mind. Think about it.

How could we possibly create a machine that will produce an inconceivable output? What would be the function for that? Literally, a language system based entirely on variables that produces its own quantities, then maneuvers and manipulates those quantities with no intervention, to result in commands that we cannot understand?

We can just as well create God in a laboratory.

The rise of Techno Allah is nigh.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Crede
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11/13/2011 1:06:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 12:11:52 AM, belle wrote:
the evolution of our minds can still be considered biological. unless you mean the evolution of ideas rather than the evolution of our brains....

Maybe...but no that's not what I was saying. I was thinking more along the lines of being able to use more readily and to a greater power the brain we already have.
Ren
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11/13/2011 1:08:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 12:48:08 AM, Ren wrote:
We are already able to use technology to augment our perceptions and abilities.

Sensing the physical world and interpreting it are two entirely different things.

I wouldn't consider neither cats nor eagles more intelligent than human beings.
CosmicAlfonzo
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11/13/2011 1:09:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Artists and scientists love it when people think that they completely understand what it is they are doing.

It makes us look like gods, like superhuman.

Trust me, many do much to perpetuate these myths. Take music as an example. Just freeform improv something, throw in some complex chords, maybe some odd rhythmic groupings.. Don't think about it...

Later analyze it, and brag about how dense your harmonies are, and how polyrhythmic your melodies are.. Instant pretentious douche bag.

You think scientists are any different? They want to confuse you, because you are too lazy to pick up a book and actually learn about it.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
CosmicAlfonzo
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11/13/2011 1:11:34 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
And the more you learn about anything, the more you realize how little you know.

You can understand something without understanding it.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ren
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11/13/2011 1:15:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 1:03:25 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Nobody programs in straight binary. Programmers built languages from binary, and even languages on top of the languages that were built off of binary.

You're kidding, right? Who devises the first language above binary code, then?

http://www.codeproject.com...

The thing is, none of the people involved understand the whole thing. The majority of programs are done by multiple people who all have their own area of expertise.

That is completely, 100% absurd. You may not, but computer scientists do.

Take a contemporary video game. Do you think that any one programmer could do all of that? No, and they do not.

Yes, of course there are programmers that could. Lol, geez, I know humanity is pretty senseless on average, but we haven't come this far due to people who sit around watching MTV all day.

The reason why most don't is because it isn't practical. You can make a productive living understanding and doing only some of it. However, there are certainly those that can, and some of those that can who do.

They split the workload not just to get things done faster, but because people tend to specialize in certain areas pertaining to the final project.

^^^

The first created intelligence is not going to be made by any one person, it is going to be the product of a whole team of devoted scientists(or maybe a few teenagers in a garage for the science fair, which almost sounds like it could be the plot to a movie from the 80s)

Someone who creates a programming language isn't necessarily going to be able to do anything really fancy with it.. However, they give someone else the ability to do something fancy with it. The creator of C++ probably had no idea the kind of things people would be doing with it in the future.

You realize that this team, together, will still be able to understand the project?

It will be impossible for any of them to create any single thing beyond their capacity, so the aggregate of that project will all be within the limitations of humanity, and thus, inferior by default.

Really? Microsoft Excel? This is the example you are using?

Do you have a better example, or any examples at all? Microsoft Excel is made to run on some of the most sophisticated mainstream systems and Nikola Tesla, who is not the most intelligent man to have ever lived, nor would he be the most intelligent man if we were alive today, lived before computers were even devised. I'd say it was an adequate example.

The rise of Techno Allah is nigh.

Right. The rise of an incomprehensible human concept that is superior to humanity, but created by humanity, is nigh. :\
CosmicAlfonzo
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11/13/2011 1:15:45 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Take a good random number generator. What is referred to as a "true" random number generator.

The guy who made it certainly understands it, but be damned if he understands it.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ren
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11/13/2011 1:15:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 1:11:34 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
And the more you learn about anything, the more you realize how little you know.

You can understand something without understanding it.

Give me an example.
belle
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11/13/2011 1:16:02 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 1:03:02 AM, Ren wrote:
At 11/13/2011 12:49:41 AM, belle wrote:
while its true that people use tools they don't understand all the time

...it remains untrue that anyone has ever created a tool that he or she doesn't understand.

while rare, this is not unheard of. you don't have to understand a process to observe that it works. for example, the first vaccine against smallpox was developed before anyone knew what a virus was or that the immune system existed. this sprang from the simple observation that milkmaids don't get smallpox. it was decades before viruses and the immune system were characterized in any detail. edward jenner had no f-ing clue how his preparation worked... and yet it prevented smallpox.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Ren
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11/13/2011 1:16:34 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 1:15:45 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Take a good random number generator. What is referred to as a "true" random number generator.

The guy who made it certainly understands it, but be damned if he understands it.

Names? Links? Something. This is just a vague anecdote right now.
Ren
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11/13/2011 1:18:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 1:16:02 AM, belle wrote:
At 11/13/2011 1:03:02 AM, Ren wrote:
At 11/13/2011 12:49:41 AM, belle wrote:
while its true that people use tools they don't understand all the time

...it remains untrue that anyone has ever created a tool that he or she doesn't understand.

while rare, this is not unheard of. you don't have to understand a process to observe that it works. for example, the first vaccine against smallpox was developed before anyone knew what a virus was or that the immune system existed. this sprang from the simple observation that milkmaids don't get smallpox. it was decades before viruses and the immune system were characterized in any detail. edward jenner had no f-ing clue how his preparation worked... and yet it prevented smallpox.

At 11/13/2011 12:30:04 AM, Ren wrote:
I believe that creating something that exceeds our own capacity is paradoxical and nonsensical.

It is tantamount to creating something that we don't understand. When you reduce this mathematically (the language in which science and engineering is natively written, then translated), you realize that this is only possible if we use properties we don't understand and cause them to interact in ways that we can only partially predict in order to accommodate the necessary variables that would make the mathematical statement that explains it sensible. In that regard, we can only "create" biological things that we don't understand, and only by mistake. Mechanically, it is literally impossible.
Ren
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11/13/2011 1:23:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 1:09:19 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Artists and scientists love it when people think that they completely understand what it is they are doing.

It makes us look like gods, like superhuman.

Trust me, many do much to perpetuate these myths. Take music as an example. Just freeform improv something, throw in some complex chords, maybe some odd rhythmic groupings.. Don't think about it...

Later analyze it, and brag about how dense your harmonies are, and how polyrhythmic your melodies are.. Instant pretentious douche bag.

You think scientists are any different? They want to confuse you, because you are too lazy to pick up a book and actually learn about it.

So let me get this straight...

It is sensible to you to believe that you can create something superior to yourself, but insensible to believe that you can understand anything at all.
CosmicAlfonzo
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11/13/2011 1:26:48 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 1:16:34 AM, Ren wrote:
At 11/13/2011 1:15:45 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Take a good random number generator. What is referred to as a "true" random number generator.

The guy who made it certainly understands it, but be damned if he understands it.

Names? Links? Something. This is just a vague anecdote right now.

Random number generators are used in physics to represent that element of chaos that is present due to our inability to perceive all variables.

A "True" random number generator is one that works by interacting with the external world to effect the "random" factor. Pseudo-random number generators are complex formulas to fill in for the "random" factor, but they are not considered truly random because they can be predicted.

In actuality, a "true" random number generator is not "truly" random, it is still a product of deterministic processes.. It doesn't escape causality.. However, because it samples external data, the numbers generated become less predictable. This better simulates "chaos", which is the goal.

Give someone a feed of the numbers that are put out from a "true" random number generator, and they are not going to find a pattern that makes it easy to predict what the machine will spit out next.

You could argue that we aren't really creating this, but to create a truly greater intelligence, a "true" random number generator of sorts will be necessary.

In a way, our senses function in this manner.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ren
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11/13/2011 1:30:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 1:26:48 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
In actuality, a "true" random number generator is not "truly" random, it is still a product of deterministic processes.. It doesn't escape causality.. However, because it samples external data, the numbers generated become less predictable. This better simulates "chaos", which is the goal.

At 11/13/2011 12:30:04 AM, Ren wrote:
I believe that creating something that exceeds our own capacity is paradoxical and nonsensical.

It is tantamount to creating something that we don't understand. When you reduce this mathematically (the language in which science and engineering is natively written, then translated), you realize that this is only possible if we use properties we don't understand and cause them to interact in ways that we can only partially predict in order to accommodate the necessary variables that would make the mathematical statement that explains it sensible. In that regard, we can only "create" biological things that we don't understand, and only by mistake. Mechanically, it is literally impossible.
CosmicAlfonzo
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11/13/2011 1:31:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 1:23:05 AM, Ren wrote:
So let me get this straight...

It is sensible to you to believe that you can create something superior to yourself, but insensible to believe that you can understand anything at all.

If we created an intelligence greater than ourselves, I'm pretty certain that its ways of thinking would be alien to most people, and the people who created it would be shocked at what it is able to do.

I'm a firm believer in the technological singularity, it seems inevitable(provided we don't blow ourselves up). The creation of a super intelligence is an inevitable by-product(or even cause) of this.

Call it a prophecy.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
CosmicAlfonzo
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11/13/2011 1:33:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/13/2011 1:30:44 AM, Ren wrote:
At 11/13/2011 1:26:48 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
In actuality, a "true" random number generator is not "truly" random, it is still a product of deterministic processes.. It doesn't escape causality.. However, because it samples external data, the numbers generated become less predictable. This better simulates "chaos", which is the goal.

At 11/13/2011 12:30:04 AM, Ren wrote:
I believe that creating something that exceeds our own capacity is paradoxical and nonsensical.

It is tantamount to creating something that we don't understand. When you reduce this mathematically (the language in which science and engineering is natively written, then translated), you realize that this is only possible if we use properties we don't understand and cause them to interact in ways that we can only partially predict in order to accommodate the necessary variables that would make the mathematical statement that explains it sensible. In that regard, we can only "create" biological things that we don't understand, and only by mistake. Mechanically, it is literally impossible.

I don't believe it would be possible to create a super intelligence without making use of "true" random number generators.

I think that an access to the great chaos is necessary for intelligence.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp