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Gay Vaccine

Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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12/15/2011 9:30:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I am about to propose a very, very controversial thought experiment. I'm interested in responses.

There is substantial research showing the maternal hormonal influences on the development of parts of the embryos brain related to sexual arousal.

The maternal immune hypothesis (http://healthpsych.psy.vanderbilt.edu...) correctly predicts that the chances of being homosexual increase by number of previous sons (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...).

In the same way that a vaccine can simulate a viral infection, thus preparing the immune system for an attack, would it be possible to create a "vaccine" that would mimic the effects of pregnancy and artficially increase the likeliness of the child being gay? Birth order can lead to up a 33% increase in probability of turning out gay (https://www.msu.edu...)

Basically, a vaccine that makes it extremely likely your kid will be gay.

If it is possible, how might this be done?

Is the opposite effect possible? How?

Note: It should be remembered that birth order can only account for 1/7 of the variance we see in who is gay (which, btw, is the strongest predictor).
lotus_flower
Posts: 454
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12/16/2011 9:37:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/15/2011 9:30:59 PM, Wnope wrote:
I am about to propose a very, very controversial thought experiment. I'm interested in responses.

There is substantial research showing the maternal hormonal influences on the development of parts of the embryos brain related to sexual arousal.

The maternal immune hypothesis (http://healthpsych.psy.vanderbilt.edu...) correctly predicts that the chances of being homosexual increase by number of previous sons (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...).

In the same way that a vaccine can simulate a viral infection, thus preparing the immune system for an attack, would it be possible to create a "vaccine" that would mimic the effects of pregnancy and artficially increase the likeliness of the child being gay? Birth order can lead to up a 33% increase in probability of turning out gay (https://www.msu.edu...)

Basically, a vaccine that makes it extremely likely your kid will be gay.

If it is possible, how might this be done?

Is the opposite effect possible? How?

Note: It should be remembered that birth order can only account for 1/7 of the variance we see in who is gay (which, btw, is the strongest predictor).

It seems like a theoretically viable experiment, but that sounds a bit like Eugenics, and we shouldn't really do things like that, it may have unwanted consequences, IMHO.
"Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it."
- Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
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WriterSelbe
Posts: 410
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12/16/2011 8:56:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Oh, my god! We could depopulate the Earth like this! It'd have, like, the effects of genocide but we wouldn't actually be killing anyone! We could reverse the overpopulation!
belle
Posts: 4,113
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12/16/2011 8:56:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
it sounds like it would be extremely expensive and extremely unsuccessful, given that, as you say, only a very small part of the variance in sexual orientation can be explained by maternal hormones.

that said, i think this would just be one more option for parents to choose from when planning to have children... its no different that engineering them to be more intelligent, athletic, etc. personally i am uneasy with the idea, but find it hard to justify any reasons for preventing it. as long as the parents allow their children to develop as individuals regardless of what they attempted to program into them, i don't think this sort of thing can be reasonably banned. i think if most parents tried they would be disappointed in how poorly effective the techniques were anyways. complex traits like sexual orientation and intelligence are eons away from being understood on a genetic level.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Veridas
Posts: 733
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12/17/2011 6:36:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/15/2011 9:30:59 PM, Wnope wrote:
I am about to propose a very, very controversial thought experiment. I'm interested in responses.

There is substantial research showing the maternal hormonal influences on the development of parts of the embryos brain related to sexual arousal.

The maternal immune hypothesis (http://healthpsych.psy.vanderbilt.edu...) correctly predicts that the chances of being homosexual increase by number of previous sons (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...).

In the same way that a vaccine can simulate a viral infection, thus preparing the immune system for an attack, would it be possible to create a "vaccine" that would mimic the effects of pregnancy and artficially increase the likeliness of the child being gay? Birth order can lead to up a 33% increase in probability of turning out gay (https://www.msu.edu...)

Basically, a vaccine that makes it extremely likely your kid will be gay.

If it is possible, how might this be done?

Is the opposite effect possible? How?

Note: It should be remembered that birth order can only account for 1/7 of the variance we see in who is gay (which, btw, is the strongest predictor).

I'm gonna be honest, I have no idea on how I feel about this. However, a thought occurs. If the level of research is this deep and the chemicals that inspire the homosexuality you speak of are abundant enough to make a widespread-use vaccine then there's nothing to say we can't do the same for other emotions that are caused by chemicals. IE: all of them.

Imagine a happiness drug.

A literal love potion.

Imagine what actors and actresses could do with bottled embarrassment, sadness, regret. Things that are hard to believably express in a visual way when you don't feel it.

Imagine permanently p*ssed off soldiers.

I think the implications for this research are a lot more significant than "Shall we make people gay potentially against their will?"
What fresh dickery is the internet up to today?
belle
Posts: 4,113
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12/17/2011 11:08:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
being gay isn't an emotion in the same way that being happy or pissed off or whatever is, though it does manifest as a certain set of emotions with regard to individuals of the same sex.... its more of a capacity to feel those emotions targeted towards other men rather than towards women. but this kind of thing wouldn't make you fall in love or anything.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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12/17/2011 11:24:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/16/2011 8:56:14 PM, WriterSelbe wrote:
Oh, my god! We could depopulate the Earth like this! It'd have, like, the effects of genocide but we wouldn't actually be killing anyone! We could reverse the overpopulation!

you know if everyone in the world moved to south Africa it would only have the population density of Berlin, and the country could still sustain us. We are not over populated.
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Veridas
Posts: 733
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12/17/2011 6:33:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/17/2011 11:08:55 AM, belle wrote:
being gay isn't an emotion in the same way that being happy or pissed off or whatever is, though it does manifest as a certain set of emotions with regard to individuals of the same sex.... its more of a capacity to feel those emotions targeted towards other men rather than towards women. but this kind of thing wouldn't make you fall in love or anything.

No, but it is, at least in the context of this vaccine the attitude is stimulated through chemicals much like emotions are. While the chemicals are not singularly responsible, they play a part. That's enough to consider the use of emotional chemical-stimulus in the form of vaccines and injections.
What fresh dickery is the internet up to today?
lotus_flower
Posts: 454
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12/20/2011 7:44:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/16/2011 8:58:09 PM, WriterSelbe wrote:
We should link that one fruit fly experiment that bluesteel was going on about. It's kind of awesome.

http://www.skeptictank.org...
your welcome. ;)
"Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it."
- Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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12/20/2011 11:54:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I agree with belle. We could probably play with science to have our kids very likely turn out smarter, taller, faster, more attractive, etc. but I'm not sure how effective it would be (given all of the other variables that determine these things). From a moral standpoint, it's hard to argue against. However obviously anyone who advocates making attempts so your kid doesn't turn out gay should also have no problem with people making attempts so their kid DOES turn out gay (or have brown hair, or blonde hair, etc.). I'm pretty sure a lot of religious people are against this.

Also, this is kind of off topic but I was actually explaining to my friend yesterday that if I had a daughter, I'd "prefer" her to be gay just as my friend's parents told her they "prefer" her to be straight. Like them, I have my reasons :) But it's whatever.
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/20/2011 12:49:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/17/2011 11:24:48 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 12/16/2011 8:56:14 PM, WriterSelbe wrote:
Oh, my god! We could depopulate the Earth like this! It'd have, like, the effects of genocide but we wouldn't actually be killing anyone! We could reverse the overpopulation!

you know if everyone in the world moved to south Africa it would only have the population density of Berlin, and the country could still sustain us. We are not over populated.

South Africa, 471,443 square miles or 301,723,520 acres.
World population, 6,983,000,000.

This comes to 23.14 people per acre. So each person has 1,880 sqare feet to live. And that would like no room for growing food. So... no, that's a bad example.

The world is "over populated." Not by living space, but by resource limitations. There are a finite number of resources on Earth. The more people, then the less there is per person, and thus having a negative effect on global quality of life.

There is a balance on being enough people to gather, transport, and manufature those finite resources, while not being so many that we only have a marginal amount per person.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/20/2011 12:51:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 11:54:36 AM, Danielle wrote:
I agree with belle. We could probably play with science to have our kids very likely turn out smarter, taller, faster, more attractive, etc. but I'm not sure how effective it would be (given all of the other variables that determine these things). From a moral standpoint, it's hard to argue against. However obviously anyone who advocates making attempts so your kid doesn't turn out gay should also have no problem with people making attempts so their kid DOES turn out gay (or have brown hair, or blonde hair, etc.). I'm pretty sure a lot of religious people are against this.

Also, this is kind of off topic but I was actually explaining to my friend yesterday that if I had a daughter, I'd "prefer" her to be gay just as my friend's parents told her they "prefer" her to be straight. Like them, I have my reasons :) But it's whatever.

Is your preference just to be a symbolic middle finger to the people that would "prefer" their kids to be straight? lol.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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12/21/2011 6:29:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The maternal immune hypothesis (http://healthpsych.psy.vanderbilt.edu...) correctly predicts that the chances of being homosexual increase by number of previous sons (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...).:

And here my wife had one on the first shot. What are the odds?!?! :)

Basically, a vaccine that makes it extremely likely your kid will be gay.

If it is possible, how might this be done?

Is the opposite effect possible? How?:

Even if true, is it necessary? Does homosexuality present any kind of danger on an individual or communal level? If not, there's no point, especially when there is a population curve that exponentionally grows larger consistently throughout history. Less people with the desire to procreate marginally helps to prevent overpopulation, and is perhaps one of nature's ways of ameliorating it.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Skittishnymph
Posts: 3
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1/10/2012 6:47:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I find this rather ironic, considering one of the most common things gay people fight for is the right to be able to be who they are. To live their life with the sexual orientation they have, that they were born with. Giving an unborn child a gay vaccine is like saying, you don't have the right to be straight, you must show sexual love to those of the same sex.
blackhawk1331
Posts: 4,932
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1/11/2012 4:19:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/16/2011 8:56:14 PM, WriterSelbe wrote:
Oh, my god! We could depopulate the Earth like this! It'd have, like, the effects of genocide but we wouldn't actually be killing anyone! We could reverse the overpopulation!

That was my thought.
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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1/11/2012 4:20:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
No. Just...no.
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blackhawk1331
Posts: 4,932
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1/11/2012 4:21:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/17/2011 11:24:48 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 12/16/2011 8:56:14 PM, WriterSelbe wrote:
Oh, my god! We could depopulate the Earth like this! It'd have, like, the effects of genocide but we wouldn't actually be killing anyone! We could reverse the overpopulation!

you know if everyone in the world moved to south Africa it would only have the population density of Berlin, and the country could still sustain us. We are not over populated.

Over 6 billion people supported in South Africa with a population no denser than Berlin? Where the fvck did you find this? I HIGHLY doubt that this is true.
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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1/12/2012 11:22:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why is it that some characters on this site are so static...

Lotus_flower will never fail to show up to haunt a forum or debate topic about gays yet rarely ventures anywhere else.

The same is true for Physik, he will attack the religious forums with a passion but rarely ever leaves...

It's almost robotic... Just a trend I see.
Physik
Posts: 686
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1/13/2012 4:03:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/12/2012 11:22:15 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Why is it that some characters on this site are so static...

Lotus_flower will never fail to show up to haunt a forum or debate topic about gays yet rarely ventures anywhere else.

The same is true for Physik, he will attack the religious forums with a passion but rarely ever leaves...

It's almost robotic... Just a trend I see.

And? I find it gratifying that my views are confirmed daily by the irrationality of several people that frequent the religion forum.

What are the other active forums? Politics, Games and DDO? Politics I'm going to feel a bit left out on, cause all everyone ever talks about are republican candidates. I'm way to lazy to learn Mafia Wars, and I do post on DDO when there's something interesting.

Why are you going to criticize people for posting about issues they are passionate about -.-

To the actual 'gay vaccine', I seriously doubt it would work; but if people want to try it, by all means.
"Just don't let them dissuade you. Stick to your beliefs no matter what and you'll be fine." - ConservativePolitico, the guy that accused me of being close-minded.

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ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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1/13/2012 10:49:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/13/2012 4:03:20 AM, Physik wrote:
At 1/12/2012 11:22:15 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Why is it that some characters on this site are so static...

Lotus_flower will never fail to show up to haunt a forum or debate topic about gays yet rarely ventures anywhere else.

The same is true for Physik, he will attack the religious forums with a passion but rarely ever leaves...

It's almost robotic... Just a trend I see.

And? I find it gratifying that my views are confirmed daily by the irrationality of several people that frequent the religion forum.

What are the other active forums? Politics, Games and DDO? Politics I'm going to feel a bit left out on, cause all everyone ever talks about are republican candidates. I'm way to lazy to learn Mafia Wars, and I do post on DDO when there's something interesting.

Why are you going to criticize people for posting about issues they are passionate about -.-


To the actual 'gay vaccine', I seriously doubt it would work; but if people want to try it, by all means.

Who's criticizing? I was just pointing out an interesting fact. You defended your position thats fine. I don't care where you go.
bhatti1020
Posts: 216
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1/14/2012 8:27:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
a gay vaccine??? to make a person gay??? Doesn't science have bigger stuff to do?
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InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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1/14/2012 10:13:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/14/2012 8:27:19 AM, bhatti1020 wrote:
a gay vaccine??? to make a person gay??? Doesn't science have bigger stuff to do?

lol my thoughts exactly.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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1/14/2012 10:21:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/14/2012 8:27:19 AM, bhatti1020 wrote:
a gay vaccine??? to make a person gay??? Doesn't science have bigger stuff to do?

You would think so but... this is what you get
Veridas
Posts: 733
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1/15/2012 7:20:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/14/2012 8:27:19 AM, bhatti1020 wrote:
a gay vaccine??? to make a person gay??? Doesn't science have bigger stuff to do?

In the same way that not ever kid grows up to be an astronaught, not ever scientist grows up to work on the Large Hadron Collider.
What fresh dickery is the internet up to today?
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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1/15/2012 8:20:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 12:51:20 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Is your preference just to be a symbolic middle finger to the people that would "prefer" their kids to be straight? lol.

No :P

If my daughter were a lesbian, I wouldn't have to worry about unwanted pregnancy. Lesbians are also the demographic with the lowest amount of STDs - another relief. Lesbians are also more likely to stay in long lasting and committed relationships (well, the odds of relationships for anyone sucks, but lesbians have the best) so statistically I'd have to comfort her over heartbreak less. Plus, I don't have to worry about guys sexually over-powering her or pressuring her. Well, that would happen anyway, but far less likely. In addition, lesbians tend to be feminists, and who wouldn't want their daughter to hold (non-militant) feminist ideals? Plus, because gay people in general tend to reject most notions of gender stereotypes, there is a better chance she wouldn't feel confined to certain gender roles nor be inhibited by them... so yeah :)
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ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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1/16/2012 10:12:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 8:20:30 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 12/20/2011 12:51:20 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Is your preference just to be a symbolic middle finger to the people that would "prefer" their kids to be straight? lol.

No :P

If my daughter were a lesbian, I wouldn't have to worry about unwanted pregnancy. Lesbians are also the demographic with the lowest amount of STDs - another relief. Lesbians are also more likely to stay in long lasting and committed relationships (well, the odds of relationships for anyone sucks, but lesbians have the best) so statistically I'd have to comfort her over heartbreak less. Plus, I don't have to worry about guys sexually over-powering her or pressuring her. Well, that would happen anyway, but far less likely. In addition, lesbians tend to be feminists, and who wouldn't want their daughter to hold (non-militant) feminist ideals? Plus, because gay people in general tend to reject most notions of gender stereotypes, there is a better chance she wouldn't feel confined to certain gender roles nor be inhibited by them... so yeah :)

So would you use this "vaccine" to make your daughter gay if you could?