Total Posts:9|Showing Posts:1-9
Jump to topic:

Helium shortage & government

darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/21/2012 6:13:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
So, If any of you out there realize, that the world is running out of helium and this is kind of bad since its used in various industries.

So the question remains: If there is such a shortage of helium then why is it so cheap? Well because: Helium Privatisation Act passed in 1996 by the US Congress. The Act required the helium stores held underground near Amarillo in Texas to be sold off at a fixed rate by 2015 regardless of the market value, to pay off the original cost of the reserve.

http://www.physorg.com...

So what this means is while helium should cost more then it really is because of the shortage, people buy it very cheap and waste it, while society really needs to preserve it.

Sigh, government just loves doing things the unsustainable way.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/21/2012 6:21:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well, technically it's a renewable resource, it just renews veeeeeerrrrrry slowly. But whenever I walk into a party store I always cringe.

Now, does this law fix the price on resellers? Because I just might go out there and start buying up all the helium. Muahahahahahaha!
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/21/2012 6:45:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/21/2012 6:21:45 AM, drafterman wrote:
Well, technically it's a renewable resource, it just renews veeeeeerrrrrry slowly. But whenever I walk into a party store I always cringe.

Now, does this law fix the price on resellers? Because I just might go out there and start buying up all the helium. Muahahahahahaha!

I was actually looking into that. Basically the cost of storage , shipping (costs extra for shipping due to it being regulated), and risk doesn't seem to be worth it.

Best thing to do is go for a future exchange market. However there isn't a future exchange market out there. So you'd have to go for a forward contract with a company that produces helium.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
PervRat
Posts: 963
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/22/2012 2:39:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Aside from nuclear fusion reactions, free helium is neither created nor destroyed. Free helium, in fact, is an inherently redundant term as helium is a 'noble gas' -- that is, it doesn't react (chemically bond) with anything (aside from ionic form). See your Periodic Table of Elements -- all elements in the extreme rightmost column (Helium, Neon, Argon, etc.) are "noble" gases.

This contrasts with, say, oxygen which is a highly reactive element and is, in fact, difficult to maintain in its pure form (and its pure form is what we need to breathe and for all our combustion technology to operated). It is difficult to regain free oxygen from molecules as water (H2O) or carbon dioxide (CO2).

Helium can be difficult to capture because it is light ... helium rises and is not a significant part of the air until well above even Mt. Everest's elevation. However, it is incorrect to say we are 'running out' of Helium, as don't lose Helium to chemical reactions creating binding molecules the way we do free oxygen.
Mimshot
Posts: 275
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/22/2012 2:46:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
How exactly would Darkkermit's government have disposed of its large supply of helium without creating more market manipulation than this one?
Mimshot: I support the 1956 Republican platform
DDMx: So, you're a socialist?
Mimshot: Yes
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/22/2012 2:50:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/22/2012 2:46:44 PM, Mimshot wrote:
How exactly would Darkkermit's government have disposed of its large supply of helium without creating more market manipulation than this one?

First you allow a future exchange market to be created. Then government sells it via bidding.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
Mimshot
Posts: 275
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/22/2012 3:22:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/22/2012 2:50:36 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 3/22/2012 2:46:44 PM, Mimshot wrote:
How exactly would Darkkermit's government have disposed of its large supply of helium without creating more market manipulation than this one?

First you allow a future exchange market to be created.

There is, to my knowledge, no law nor CFTC regulation that prevents a commodity exchange from selling helium futures. The only barrier is lack of demand. Or did you mean the government should create the futures?

Then government sells it via bidding.

A large market participant (such as the US Government in this case) that is trying to liquidate its position can either set the price or the quantity to be sold, but not both. When a supplier picks one, the other is determined by buyers as described by the demand curve. Prices are low not because the government set them low, but because it set the quantity to be sold high. It did this because some conservatives in 1996 decided the government should quickly sell its helium supply back to the private sector. Should the government have continued to stockpile the commodity because the private sector might not use it wisely?
Mimshot: I support the 1956 Republican platform
DDMx: So, you're a socialist?
Mimshot: Yes
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/22/2012 3:37:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/22/2012 3:22:08 PM, Mimshot wrote:
At 3/22/2012 2:50:36 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 3/22/2012 2:46:44 PM, Mimshot wrote:
How exactly would Darkkermit's government have disposed of its large supply of helium without creating more market manipulation than this one?

First you allow a future exchange market to be created.

There is, to my knowledge, no law nor CFTC regulation that prevents a commodity exchange from selling helium futures. The only barrier is lack of demand. Or did you mean the government should create the futures?

the Commodity Futures Trading Commission has to approve of all future markets.

Then government sells it via bidding.

A large market participant (such as the US Government in this case) that is trying to :liquidate its position can either set the price or the quantity to be sold, but not both.
When a supplier picks one, the other is determined by buyers as described by the :demand curve. Prices are low not because the government set them low, but :because it set the quantity to be sold high. It did this because some conservatives in :1996 decided the government should quickly sell its helium supply back to the :private sector. Should the government have continued to stockpile the commodity :because the private sector might not use it wisely?
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/22/2012 7:32:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/22/2012 2:39:58 PM, PervRat wrote:
Aside from nuclear fusion reactions, free helium is neither created nor destroyed.

Wrong. Most helium found on Earth is a created as a result of radioactive decay from Uranium and Thorium.

Free helium, in fact, is an inherently redundant term as helium is a 'noble gas' -- that is, it doesn't react (chemically bond) with anything (aside from ionic form). See your Periodic Table of Elements -- all elements in the extreme rightmost column (Helium, Neon, Argon, etc.) are "noble" gases.

This contrasts with, say, oxygen which is a highly reactive element and is, in fact, difficult to maintain in its pure form (and its pure form is what we need to breathe and for all our combustion technology to operated). It is difficult to regain free oxygen from molecules as water (H2O) or carbon dioxide (CO2).

Helium can be difficult to capture because it is light ... helium rises and is not a significant part of the air until well above even Mt. Everest's elevation. However, it is incorrect to say we are 'running out' of Helium, as don't lose Helium to chemical reactions creating binding molecules the way we do free oxygen.

It is, however, correct to say that we are 'running out' of Helium in that we lose it through Atmospheric escape.