Total Posts:35|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Magic

Lifeisgood
Posts: 295
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/6/2009 7:17:27 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
We really need a philosophy forum. Anyone else here second the idea?

I have little time here, as I actually live. I am forced to be brief.

Down to business. I have been thinking heavily on this subject. There are undeniably things which cannot be explained. They would fit into the category of 'magic'. Here are some of those things.

Reading and Language
And the meaning communicated through these.

The Human Mind
A total mystery, complicated beyond belief.

The Conscience
There is no explanation for it, yet every sane human has one.

The Occult
Not all of it can be explained away.

Life
By far, the most magical thing of all. I firmly believe that science will never, can never, understand Life.

Please do not disregard what I am saying. I have thought extensively on each of these, and I have found no answer or explanation for them. Don't say they can easily be explained away. I know they can't.

Any comments?
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/6/2009 7:21:26 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/6/2009 7:17:27 PM, Lifeisgood wrote:
Any comments?

oh ho ho it's magic~
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
Nik
Posts: 552
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/6/2009 7:21:43 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I question your choice of the word 'magic' but apart from that there is a very simple answer to your questions.

42

just let that sink in.

I know, it changed my life too.
"If you could tell the world but one truth, I could convince it of a thousand lies"
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/6/2009 7:22:12 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/6/2009 7:19:47 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Our eyes take something like 24 high resolution pictures per second.

Correction: Normal human eye views at 60 FPS.
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/6/2009 7:25:17 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/6/2009 7:17:27 PM, Lifeisgood wrote:
We really need a philosophy forum. Anyone else here second the idea?

I have little time here, as I actually live. I am forced to be brief.

Down to business. I have been thinking heavily on this subject. There are undeniably things which cannot be explained. They would fit into the category of 'magic'. Here are some of those things.

Reading and Language
And the meaning communicated through these.
I point to apple.
I call it an apple.
I keep doing this until it gets rammed into your head that when I say apple I'm talking about an apple, dammit.
Obviously more complex language takes longer, but it operates on the same basic principles.


The Human Mind
A total mystery, complicated beyond belief.
Probably unexplainable in a strict sense, but making something complex doesn't qualify it as magic. If you really thought it were magic, you wouldn't have a problem with someone blowing your brains out-- since magic means it isn't dependent on something like a brain.


The Conscience
There is no explanation for it, yet every sane human has one.
Conscience-- the use of the mind toward the problem of continuing life. How is that unexplainable? Do you not seek to live?


The Occult
Not all of it can be explained away.
Such as?


Life
By far, the most magical thing of all. I firmly believe that science will never, can never, understand Life.
In what sense?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/6/2009 7:29:39 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/6/2009 7:22:12 PM, Rezzealaux wrote:
At 8/6/2009 7:19:47 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Our eyes take something like 24 high resolution pictures per second.

Correction: Normal human eye views at 60 FPS.

My bad. I heard differently.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Nik
Posts: 552
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/6/2009 7:35:48 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Eyes are biological

FPS is digital

Its like comparing a vinyl to a CD, but to a much higher degree of difference.

The question is, when will digital images become so clear that our eyes cant tell the difference.
"If you could tell the world but one truth, I could convince it of a thousand lies"
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/6/2009 7:39:37 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/6/2009 7:35:48 PM, Nik wrote:
Eyes are biological

FPS is digital

Its like comparing a vinyl to a CD, but to a much higher degree of difference.

The question is, when will digital images become so clear that our eyes cant tell the difference.

Actually, FPS isn't digital. Show something moving at 60Hz and a person can see every time the cycle repeats, move it above 60Hz and it will look like a blur. What is different is the resolution. Eyes don't see in dpi or pixels, they see in arc-somethings, which aren't convertable into dpi or pixels as far as I know. Yes, that is the essential question, but we do not have the answer.
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/6/2009 7:46:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
What's so hard to understand about life? o.o
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/6/2009 10:25:56 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/6/2009 7:17:27 PM, Lifeisgood wrote:

Reading and Language
And the meaning communicated through these.
An apple is an apple. We call it an apple, thus it is an apple. If we chose to call it a Flagsophocote, then it would be a flagsophocote. What exactly does this have to do with magic?

The Human Mind
A total mystery, complicated beyond belief.
Actually, no. We have unlocked quite a bit about the mind. We can, for example, stimulate certain parts of the mind that result in sensation, and we know of several impediments to the brain that remove specific emotions, and even change personalities. Why is this magic? THere is nothing that suggests anything more than simple chemical reactions.
The Conscience
There is no explanation for it, yet every sane human has one.
What exactly do you define as a consciousness?

The Occult
Not all of it can be explained away.
Is there anything to explain here? What do we have? 300 cases of women being accused as being witches because they were dancing around fires?

Life
By far, the most magical thing of all. I firmly believe that science will never, can never, understand Life.
If you believe that science will never understand life, then you are wrong. We are very close to understanding how life can form.

Please do not disregard what I am saying. I have thought extensively on each of these, and I have found no answer or explanation for them. Don't say they can easily be explained away. I know they can't.

How do you know they cannot be explained? If you have questions, id be glad to answer.

However, why are you claiming that since they cannot be explained, they must necessarily could not be explained, ever? I mean, 200 years ago, no one knew where Lightning came from. Doesnt mean it came from a god. Nor does it mean it was Magic. Sorry mate, you cannot make such an absurd conclusion.
MTGandP
Posts: 702
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/7/2009 8:13:08 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/6/2009 7:35:48 PM, Nik wrote:
The question is, when will digital images become so clear that our eyes cant tell the difference.
We have already reached that point. Can you seriously make out individual pixels on a computer screen without looking really really close?
feverish
Posts: 2,716
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/7/2009 8:28:08 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/7/2009 8:13:08 PM, MTGandP wrote:
At 8/6/2009 7:35:48 PM, Nik wrote:
The question is, when will digital images become so clear that our eyes cant tell the difference.
We have already reached that point. Can you seriously make out individual pixels on a computer screen without looking really really close?

Just tried, now my eyes hurt.
Lifeisgood
Posts: 295
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/9/2009 7:52:00 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
A quick comment here.

I suggest you guys do some research on these subjects. If you seriously think the human mind is as simple as you make it out to be, then a good course on biology would help you tremendously.

I see one consistent thing here. All of you love science. Whatever is commonly accepted by science, you accept. Which means you believe science has an explanation for everything. Which causes you to hate the term 'magic'.

I too rely heavily upon science, but I know full well its limitations. Logic is my field of expertise, and it has never failed me. And logic would indicate the existence of 'magic'.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/9/2009 8:09:06 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/9/2009 7:52:00 PM, Lifeisgood wrote:
I too rely heavily upon science, but I know full well its limitations. Logic is my field of expertise, and it has never failed me. And logic would indicate the existence of 'magic'.

How does logic indicate the existence of 'magic'? I see no reason for it to, especially when presented with several facts and proven ideas about how the mind and various other forces work. Just because things are 'unknown', doesn't mean it is 'magic'.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/9/2009 8:51:13 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/9/2009 7:52:00 PM, Lifeisgood wrote:

I too rely heavily upon science, but I know full well its limitations. Logic is my field of expertise, and it has never failed me. And logic would indicate the existence of 'magic'.

Throw it into a syllogism and let's have a look. :)
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/9/2009 9:01:01 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/6/2009 7:17:27 PM, Lifeisgood wrote:
The Occult
Not all of it can be explained away.

I think many have a misunderstanding about what the Occult is. "Occult" simply means (in Latin) "hidden knowledge."

.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/9/2009 9:10:02 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/9/2009 8:51:13 PM, Puck wrote:
At 8/9/2009 7:52:00 PM, Lifeisgood wrote:

I too rely heavily upon science, but I know full well its limitations. Logic is my field of expertise, and it has never failed me. And logic would indicate the existence of 'magic'.

Throw it into a syllogism and let's have a look. :)

Epic win.
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
Common_Sense_Please
Posts: 6
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/10/2009 10:53:51 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Go on, press play. It isn't long
Brian Griffin: Stewie, you're judgmentally quoting bible verses and you don't even know how to read.
Stewie Griffin: Welcome to America, Brian.
Lifeisgood
Posts: 295
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/10/2009 5:13:18 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/9/2009 8:09:06 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/9/2009 7:52:00 PM, Lifeisgood wrote:
I too rely heavily upon science, but I know full well its limitations. Logic is my field of expertise, and it has never failed me. And logic would indicate the existence of 'magic'.

How does logic indicate the existence of 'magic'? I see no reason for it to, especially when presented with several facts and proven ideas about how the mind and various other forces work. Just because things are 'unknown', doesn't mean it is 'magic'.

By magic I mean things which cannot be explained, in whole or in part, by science. That is all.

Why do you guys seem to have such difficulty with the term? What is so wrong with it? Science is limited.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/10/2009 5:16:57 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/10/2009 5:13:18 PM, Lifeisgood wrote:
By magic I mean things which cannot be explained, in whole or in part, by science. That is all.

Why do you guys seem to have such difficulty with the term? What is so wrong with it? Science is limited.

I don't think there is anything in science that cannot be explained in whole or part. "Science is limited" is a very subjective statement.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/10/2009 5:27:55 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
May as well state that before telescopes, Neptune didn't exist. Arguments from personal incredulity prove nothing, let alone magic.

All you are saying is there is something I don't know enough about. What exactly is unexplained about language? The brain? Conscience? The fact you ask these questions shows your lack of knowledge in these areas, because there are answers out there.

So yeah, don't call it logical, don't say logic indicates it, because all I'm hearing is a lot of....I don't know something...IT'S MAGIC.
bearsfan
Posts: 102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/10/2009 6:32:38 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/6/2009 7:21:43 PM, Nik wrote:
I question your choice of the word 'magic' but apart from that there is a very simple answer to your questions.

42

just let that sink in.

I know, it changed my life too.

6x9!!!!!
"I'd like to have more self esteem but I don't deserve it" - Woody Paige

"Some people have a way with words, others not have way" - Woody Paige

"Nostalgia isn't what it used to be" - Woody Paige

"My French teacher is muy caliente!" - Woody Paige

"It's not rocket surgery" - Woody Paige

"I'm schizophrenic and so am I!" - Woody Paige
LB628
Posts: 176
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/10/2009 6:37:56 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/10/2009 5:13:18 PM, Lifeisgood wrote:
At 8/9/2009 8:09:06 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/9/2009 7:52:00 PM, Lifeisgood wrote:
I too rely heavily upon science, but I know full well its limitations. Logic is my field of expertise, and it has never failed me. And logic would indicate the existence of 'magic'.

How does logic indicate the existence of 'magic'? I see no reason for it to, especially when presented with several facts and proven ideas about how the mind and various other forces work. Just because things are 'unknown', doesn't mean it is 'magic'.

By magic I mean things which cannot be explained, in whole or in part, by science. That is all.

Why do you guys seem to have such difficulty with the term? What is so wrong with it? Science is limited.

The problem with that term is that it functions similar to the god of the gaps argument. It makes what is magical completely dependent on what is known, and so what is magical does not actually remain constant. I think the best example is the sun, before the discovery of nuclear fusion and fission. Now, at that time, it was fairly easy to approximate the amount of energy the sun has to be releasing to give the effects it does. At the time, there was no source of energy which was known to provide that level of energy. This does not mean that the sun was powered by magic until nuclear fusion was discovered.
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/10/2009 7:39:10 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/10/2009 6:32:38 PM, bearsfan wrote:
At 8/6/2009 7:21:43 PM, Nik wrote:
I question your choice of the word 'magic' but apart from that there is a very simple answer to your questions.

42

just let that sink in.

I know, it changed my life too.

6x9!!!!!

54?
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
bearsfan
Posts: 102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/10/2009 8:24:30 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/10/2009 7:39:10 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 8/10/2009 6:32:38 PM, bearsfan wrote:
At 8/6/2009 7:21:43 PM, Nik wrote:
I question your choice of the word 'magic' but apart from that there is a very simple answer to your questions.

42

just let that sink in.

I know, it changed my life too.

6x9!!!!!

54?

It's from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. The giant computer on Magorathia made to answer the meaning of life said "The answer of life is 42." Someone else whom I can't remember their name asked, "Then what is the question of life?" The computer responded, "6x9."

If you haven't seen the movie or read the books, I suggest you do so. Immediately.
"I'd like to have more self esteem but I don't deserve it" - Woody Paige

"Some people have a way with words, others not have way" - Woody Paige

"Nostalgia isn't what it used to be" - Woody Paige

"My French teacher is muy caliente!" - Woody Paige

"It's not rocket surgery" - Woody Paige

"I'm schizophrenic and so am I!" - Woody Paige
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/10/2009 8:56:59 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/9/2009 7:52:00 PM, Lifeisgood wrote:
A quick comment here.

I suggest you guys do some research on these subjects. If you seriously think the human mind is as simple as you make it out to be, then a good course on biology would help you tremendously.

I see one consistent thing here. All of you love science. Whatever is commonly accepted by science, you accept. Which means you believe science has an explanation for everything. Which causes you to hate the term 'magic'.

I too rely heavily upon science, but I know full well its limitations. Logic is my field of expertise, and it has never failed me. And logic would indicate the existence of 'magic'.

Hi, I'm a Pharmacy major with a heavy background in Biochemistry and Organic Chemistry. I'd like to know what it is about life that you find so magically inexplicable.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2009 2:16:57 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/10/2009 5:13:18 PM, Lifeisgood wrote:
At 8/9/2009 8:09:06 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/9/2009 7:52:00 PM, Lifeisgood wrote:
I too rely heavily upon science, but I know full well its limitations. Logic is my field of expertise, and it has never failed me. And logic would indicate the existence of 'magic'.

How does logic indicate the existence of 'magic'? I see no reason for it to, especially when presented with several facts and proven ideas about how the mind and various other forces work. Just because things are 'unknown', doesn't mean it is 'magic'.

By magic I mean things which cannot be explained, in whole or in part, by science. That is all.

Why do you guys seem to have such difficulty with the term? What is so wrong with it? Science is limited.

For starters, it's extremely childish, ignorant, and can be harmful to society to propagate such misinformation. Of course there are things that science cannot fully explain and of course it has limitations (as do all things)...but that also depends what you mean by limitations. That there are things that cannot be explained in whole or in part by science, I don't think so. Would you like to enlighten us on these things, laddie?

BTW, logic can be used to prove the existence of Santa Clause or the Easter Bunny but that doesn't mean that they exist. I look forward to seeing you backup your points and answer peoples questions. Heck, if you have questions about "stuff" that you think that cannot be explained by science, let me know...I'll be more than happy to offer up a buffet of scientific explanations for it!
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Lifeisgood
Posts: 295
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2009 7:52:52 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
That's it. I quit.

I had just finished writing a very long, very detailed explanation of my claims, along with answers to many of your questions, when my computer suddenly shut down. Yup. Three hours of hard work, totally erased. I was almost depressed by all the time and effort I had put into that response only to have it destroyed in a moment.

Only then did I do a cost/benefit analysis of this thread and my situation. I realized that this thread was:

1) Taking up way too much of my time, which right now is my most valuable asset. I just can't afford to waste three hours on the computer. I made a mistake starting this thread in the first place. I wanted to show you guys why I believe as I believe, but it turned out that I had nowhere near enough time to do so.
2) Just not that important. Really, this topic is almost worthless. I am not really going to help or benefit anyone by convincing them of that my opinion on this issue is correct.
3) Not really enjoyable. Considering all that I have to do and the limited time that I have, discussing this topic is not fun enough to be worth the time and effort.

The only benefit would be personal satisfaction at proving I was right. However, that is nowhere near worth the cost to me.

So, I have decided to quit this thread. However if you guys still honestly wish to know why I think the way I do, then I would recommend doing extensive research in each of these fields. If you truly want to know the truth, and not just what favors your opinion, then you might start to see why I started this thread.

Please don't think that I'm wimping out because I don't have any arguments. I seriously thought I could answer anything you threw at me when I started this thread, until reality showed its ugly face. I made a few responses when I had a couple minutes to spare, but it would have been better if I hadn't said anything at all. It is never a good idea to engage in a philosophical debate when you are distracted or stressed.

So goodbye. I take leave of this thread. I also hereby wish to announce that I am leaving DDO, and never, EVER coming back again until tomorrow.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln