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Delayed Choice: Quantum Quackery or Science?

tBoonePickens
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6/1/2012 5:13:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
"A "delayed choice" experiment proposed by the second author in 1978 (see Figure 2) was successfully carried out by Carroll Alley, Oleg Jakubowics and William Wickes in 1984, showing that not only can a photon be in two places at once, but we can decide whether it should act schizophrenically or classically seemingly after the fact!"

(See Figure 2 on page 5 in the link below.)
http://arxiv.org...

"The delayed choice experiment. The figure shows a so-called Mach-Zender interferometer in the guise of a baseball diamond. The half-silvered mirror on home plate reflects half the light that strikes it towards 3rd base and lets the rest through towards 1st base. Two ordinary mirrors then reflect this light towards 2nd base, where the two beams strike another half-silvered mirror. The setup is such that the two beams headed for left field will cancel each other through destructive interference, i.e., all photons fired from home plate will be detected in right field, none in left field. This implies that each photon took both the 1st and 3rd base routes in superposition. If we remove the half-silvered mirror at second base, we detect half of the photons in left field and half in
right field, and we know which baselines each photon traveled along. We can therefore choose whether the individual photons should act schizophrenically or not. Indeed, we can delay this choice until seemingly after the fact! Let us turn on the light source for only a billionth of a second, during which time it emits, say, 1000 photons. At the speed of light, the photons travel about a foot during this time. Let us therefore wait a leisurely 10 or 20 billionths of a second after the light source is turned off before we decide which experiment we want to do. The two photon convoys headed for 1st and 3rd base will be separated by many meters by then, unable to communicate with each other. If we want to demonstrate that each photon followed both routes at once, we need only wait and note that no photons make it to left field. If we want to find out which way each photon went, we swiftly remove the 2nd base mirror before the photons have had time to reach it."
*************************************************

Q1: If a photon is a singular indivisible quanta of light, how exactly can "half-silvered mirrors reflect half the light that strikes it and let the rest through"?

Q2: Could it be that a 1/2 silvered mirror RANDOMLY either (A) let's a photon pass through or (B) reflects a photon?

Q3: If Q2 is true, then how could there EVER be any interference?

Q4: If there IS interference, then why is there interference ONLY in one direction (left field) and not the other (right field)?

Thoughts, anyone?
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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6/1/2012 6:04:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/1/2012 5:13:59 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
"A "delayed choice" experiment proposed by the second author in 1978 (see Figure 2) was successfully carried out by Carroll Alley, Oleg Jakubowics and William Wickes in 1984, showing that not only can a photon be in two places at once, but we can decide whether it should act schizophrenically or classically seemingly after the fact!"

(See Figure 2 on page 5 in the link below.)
http://arxiv.org...

"The delayed choice experiment. The figure shows a so-called Mach-Zender interferometer in the guise of a baseball diamond. The half-silvered mirror on home plate reflects half the light that strikes it towards 3rd base and lets the rest through towards 1st base. Two ordinary mirrors then reflect this light towards 2nd base, where the two beams strike another half-silvered mirror. The setup is such that the two beams headed for left field will cancel each other through destructive interference, i.e., all photons fired from home plate will be detected in right field, none in left field. This implies that each photon took both the 1st and 3rd base routes in superposition. If we remove the half-silvered mirror at second base, we detect half of the photons in left field and half in
right field, and we know which baselines each photon traveled along. We can therefore choose whether the individual photons should act schizophrenically or not. Indeed, we can delay this choice until seemingly after the fact! Let us turn on the light source for only a billionth of a second, during which time it emits, say, 1000 photons. At the speed of light, the photons travel about a foot during this time. Let us therefore wait a leisurely 10 or 20 billionths of a second after the light source is turned off before we decide which experiment we want to do. The two photon convoys headed for 1st and 3rd base will be separated by many meters by then, unable to communicate with each other. If we want to demonstrate that each photon followed both routes at once, we need only wait and note that no photons make it to left field. If we want to find out which way each photon went, we swiftly remove the 2nd base mirror before the photons have had time to reach it."
*************************************************

Q1: If a photon is a singular indivisible quanta of light, how exactly can "half-silvered mirrors reflect half the light that strikes it and let the rest through"?

Q2: Could it be that a 1/2 silvered mirror RANDOMLY either (A) let's a photon pass through or (B) reflects a photon?

Q3: If Q2 is true, then how could there EVER be any interference?

Q4: If there IS interference, then why is there interference ONLY in one direction (left field) and not the other (right field)?

Thoughts, anyone?


Is this supposed to be an actual conversation among people familiar with the subject or just "dialectics on superpositions for dummies.?"
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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6/1/2012 6:36:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/1/2012 6:04:49 PM, Wnope wrote:
Is this supposed to be an actual conversation among people familiar with the subject or just "dialectics on superpositions for dummies.?"

It can go either way (as it usually does.)
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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6/1/2012 6:48:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/1/2012 6:04:49 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 6/1/2012 5:13:59 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
"A "delayed choice" experiment proposed by the second author in 1978 (see Figure 2) was successfully carried out by Carroll Alley, Oleg Jakubowics and William Wickes in 1984, showing that not only can a photon be in two places at once, but we can decide whether it should act schizophrenically or classically seemingly after the fact!"

(See Figure 2 on page 5 in the link below.)
http://arxiv.org...

"The delayed choice experiment. The figure shows a so-called Mach-Zender interferometer in the guise of a baseball diamond. The half-silvered mirror on home plate reflects half the light that strikes it towards 3rd base and lets the rest through towards 1st base. Two ordinary mirrors then reflect this light towards 2nd base, where the two beams strike another half-silvered mirror. The setup is such that the two beams headed for left field will cancel each other through destructive interference, i.e., all photons fired from home plate will be detected in right field, none in left field. This implies that each photon took both the 1st and 3rd base routes in superposition. If we remove the half-silvered mirror at second base, we detect half of the photons in left field and half in
right field, and we know which baselines each photon traveled along. We can therefore choose whether the individual photons should act schizophrenically or not. Indeed, we can delay this choice until seemingly after the fact! Let us turn on the light source for only a billionth of a second, during which time it emits, say, 1000 photons. At the speed of light, the photons travel about a foot during this time. Let us therefore wait a leisurely 10 or 20 billionths of a second after the light source is turned off before we decide which experiment we want to do. The two photon convoys headed for 1st and 3rd base will be separated by many meters by then, unable to communicate with each other. If we want to demonstrate that each photon followed both routes at once, we need only wait and note that no photons make it to left field. If we want to find out which way each photon went, we swiftly remove the 2nd base mirror before the photons have had time to reach it."
*************************************************

Q1: If a photon is a singular indivisible quanta of light, how exactly can "half-silvered mirrors reflect half the light that strikes it and let the rest through"?

Q2: Could it be that a 1/2 silvered mirror RANDOMLY either (A) let's a photon pass through or (B) reflects a photon?

Q3: If Q2 is true, then how could there EVER be any interference?

Q4: If there IS interference, then why is there interference ONLY in one direction (left field) and not the other (right field)?

Thoughts, anyone?


Is this supposed to be an actual conversation among people familiar with the subject or just "dialectics on superpositions for dummies.?"

Fittingly, it's a superposition of both.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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6/4/2012 9:48:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Jeez, was hoping for a little more input...
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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6/4/2012 7:14:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 9:48:30 AM, tBoonePickens wrote:
Jeez, was hoping for a little more input...

What do you expect? The only people who will be mystified by this probably don't give enough of a damn about QM to ask. Those who do know enough see this as the equivalent of Socratic method of teaching basic superposition which is preaching to the choir.

Now, ask something like "Does QM Delayed Choice mean no Free Will" or some horsesh!t like that, you'll get lots of responses from people with no idea what they are talking about.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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6/5/2012 3:46:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 7:14:26 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 6/4/2012 9:48:30 AM, tBoonePickens wrote:
Jeez, was hoping for a little more input...

What do you expect? The only people who will be mystified by this probably don't give enough of a damn about QM to ask. Those who do know enough see this as the equivalent of Socratic method of teaching basic superposition which is preaching to the choir.
True that. I was hoping to at least get some questions answered but, I guess not.

Now, ask something like "Does QM Delayed Choice mean no Free Will" or some horsesh!t like that, you'll get lots of responses from people with no idea what they are talking about.
Lol!
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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6/5/2012 4:32:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 9:48:30 AM, tBoonePickens wrote:
Jeez, was hoping for a little more input...

The Fool: doesn`t it mean that if we zoom in on the mirror the silver refective material will have tiny holes so that some light goes between the wholes and that which hits the silver bits bound back.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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6/6/2012 8:51:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 4:32:48 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 6/4/2012 9:48:30 AM, tBoonePickens wrote:
Jeez, was hoping for a little more input...

The Fool: doesn`t it mean that if we zoom in on the mirror the silver refective material will have tiny holes so that some light goes between the wholes and that which hits the silver bits bound back.
OK, so you are saying that Q2 is true: a 1/2 silvered mirror RANDOMLY either (A) let's a photon pass through or (B) reflects a photon.

So then: Q3: How could there EVER be any interference?

If the photon travels either one path OR the other, then there is nothing to interfere with. But QM says that the photon actually takes both paths simultaneously and when the 2 separate beams coincide that's where the interference occurs. So then the next question is: Q4: Why is there interference ONLY in one direction (left field) and not the other (right field)?
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.