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Built House Hypothetical

ScottyDouglas
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6/4/2012 12:19:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
From this hypothetical we will explain Creationism vs. Big-Bang/science.
*Note:This is a actual hypothetical and for anyone to respond(No flame.)

In this hypothetical we will build two houses:
1) First house has a plan for it: a Blueprint
2) Second house does not: Natural/Freesytle

Both houses have tools, equipment, and workers.

1) House one has a blueprint therefore all preperations have been made to build. This is logical to do. By these preperations the correct amount of planning, tools, equipment, and workers are brought. Because of this the house is bulit on time and correctly.

2) House two had no blueprint or any extensive planning. This is illogical to do. Because of this the house is held back due to lack of planning, tools, equipment, and workers to finish on time. The problems for no blueprint causes the house to be built with slight errors and problems.

1) House one is Creation by God. God planned our creation and therefore it was made correctly because of precise planning. As our creation has precise order because of this. God had all tools, equipment, and workers to spread this knowledge and leave his signiture by his work.

2) House two was built sloppy. No planning, no preperations. For a house to be built just naturally with no plan is horendous. You would no longer be a house builder if this happened. As a result the house would not be built properly for all things to work. And hince that the universe if built natural without design would not form our order and proper function.

Any thoughts?
TheAsylum
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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6/4/2012 12:27:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 12:19:00 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
From this hypothetical we will explain Creationism vs. Big-Bang/science.
*Note:This is a actual hypothetical and for anyone to respond(No flame.)

In this hypothetical we will build two houses:
1) First house has a plan for it: a Blueprint
2) Second house does not: Natural/Freesytle

Both houses have tools, equipment, and workers.

1) House one has a blueprint therefore all preperations have been made to build. This is logical to do. By these preperations the correct amount of planning, tools, equipment, and workers are brought. Because of this the house is bulit on time and correctly.

2) House two had no blueprint or any extensive planning. This is illogical to do. Because of this the house is held back due to lack of planning, tools, equipment, and workers to finish on time. The problems for no blueprint causes the house to be built with slight errors and problems.

1) House one is Creation by God. God planned our creation and therefore it was made correctly because of precise planning. As our creation has precise order because of this. God had all tools, equipment, and workers to spread this knowledge and leave his signiture by his work.

2) House two was built sloppy. No planning, no preperations. For a house to be built just naturally with no plan is horendous. You would no longer be a house builder if this happened. As a result the house would not be built properly for all things to work. And hince that the universe if built natural without design would not form our order and proper function.

Any thoughts?

If we were part of a universe not compatible with life, we wouldn't know, because we wouldn't exist. :)
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
ScottyDouglas
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6/4/2012 12:29:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago

If we were part of a universe not compatible with life, we wouldn't know, because we wouldn't exist. :)

That is true. But we are.
TheAsylum
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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6/4/2012 12:36:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 12:19:00 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
From this hypothetical we will explain Creationism vs. Big-Bang/science.
*Note:This is a actual hypothetical and for anyone to respond(No flame.)

In this hypothetical we will build two houses:
1) First house has a plan for it: a Blueprint
2) Second house does not: Natural/Freesytle

Both houses have tools, equipment, and workers.

1) House one has a blueprint therefore all preperations have been made to build. This is logical to do. By these preperations the correct amount of planning, tools, equipment, and workers are brought. Because of this the house is bulit on time and correctly.

2) House two had no blueprint or any extensive planning. This is illogical to do. Because of this the house is held back due to lack of planning, tools, equipment, and workers to finish on time. The problems for no blueprint causes the house to be built with slight errors and problems.

1) House one is Creation by God. God planned our creation and therefore it was made correctly because of precise planning. As our creation has precise order because of this. God had all tools, equipment, and workers to spread this knowledge and leave his signiture by his work.

2) House two was built sloppy. No planning, no preperations. For a house to be built just naturally with no plan is horendous. You would no longer be a house builder if this happened. As a result the house would not be built properly for all things to work. And hince that the universe if built natural without design would not form our order and proper function.

Any thoughts?

How about we try that for something a little natural, like snowflakes.

Builder 1 has a blueprint and builds things step by step, carving away at ice with specific machines.

Builder 2 lets water droplets crystallize in low temperature environments. By varying atmospheric conditions (which move according to chaos theory) individualized snowflakes can be made.

Guess which one will have more unique snowflakes, more detailed snowflakes (unless the laser works at the molecular level), and more varied snowflakes?

Builder 1 would fumble about, sculpting pitiful imitations of what nature does unconsciously.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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6/4/2012 12:37:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 12:36:08 AM, Wnope wrote:
At 6/4/2012 12:19:00 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
From this hypothetical we will explain Creationism vs. Big-Bang/science.
*Note:This is a actual hypothetical and for anyone to respond(No flame.)

In this hypothetical we will build two houses:
1) First house has a plan for it: a Blueprint
2) Second house does not: Natural/Freesytle

Both houses have tools, equipment, and workers.

1) House one has a blueprint therefore all preperations have been made to build. This is logical to do. By these preperations the correct amount of planning, tools, equipment, and workers are brought. Because of this the house is bulit on time and correctly.

2) House two had no blueprint or any extensive planning. This is illogical to do. Because of this the house is held back due to lack of planning, tools, equipment, and workers to finish on time. The problems for no blueprint causes the house to be built with slight errors and problems.

1) House one is Creation by God. God planned our creation and therefore it was made correctly because of precise planning. As our creation has precise order because of this. God had all tools, equipment, and workers to spread this knowledge and leave his signiture by his work.

2) House two was built sloppy. No planning, no preperations. For a house to be built just naturally with no plan is horendous. You would no longer be a house builder if this happened. As a result the house would not be built properly for all things to work. And hince that the universe if built natural without design would not form our order and proper function.

Any thoughts?

How about we try that for something a little natural, like snowflakes.

Builder 1 has a blueprint and builds things step by step, carving away at ice with specific machines.

Builder 2 lets water droplets crystallize in low temperature environments. By varying atmospheric conditions (which move according to chaos theory) individualized snowflakes can be made.

Guess which one will have more unique snowflakes, more detailed snowflakes (unless the laser works at the molecular level), and more varied snowflakes?

Builder 1 would fumble about, sculpting pitiful imitations of what nature does unconsciously.

I forgot, nature would also make much more complex snowflakes than is possible using human technology (unless you find a way to carve through molecular structures without letting heat dissipation melt the surrounding ice).
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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6/4/2012 1:54:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Builder 2 lets water droplets crystallize in low temperature environments. By varying atmospheric conditions (which move according to chaos theory) individualized snowflakes can be made.

I fail to see how this is not planned but ok.
TheAsylum
ScottyDouglas
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6/4/2012 1:57:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I forgot, nature would also make much more complex snowflakes than is possible using human technology (unless you find a way to carve through molecular structures without letting heat dissipation melt the surrounding ice).

Still the planner still planned for the water to drop in that certain way for the snowflakes to form.
TheAsylum
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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6/4/2012 2:11:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 1:57:00 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
I forgot, nature would also make much more complex snowflakes than is possible using human technology (unless you find a way to carve through molecular structures without letting heat dissipation melt the surrounding ice).

Still the planner still planned for the water to drop in that certain way for the snowflakes to form.

Nope. The planner just sets up a chaotic system (atmosphere, water, etc) and collects the results. Any input (changing temperature) would have non-linear effects, so he couldn't control the formation of the snowflake. It'd be like trying to carve a block of ice by changing the thermostat.

Unconscious chaos creates more complexity and order than the man with a blueprint and carving technology.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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6/4/2012 2:51:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 1:57:00 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
I forgot, nature would also make much more complex snowflakes than is possible using human technology (unless you find a way to carve through molecular structures without letting heat dissipation melt the surrounding ice).

Still the planner still planned for the water to drop in that certain way for the snowflakes to form.

Can you point to any natural processes that AREN'T planned by a planner?
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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6/4/2012 5:29:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 12:19:00 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
From this hypothetical we will explain Creationism vs. Big-Bang/science.
*Note:This is a actual hypothetical and for anyone to respond(No flame.)

In this hypothetical we will build two houses:
1) First house has a plan for it: a Blueprint
2) Second house does not: Natural/Freesytle

Both houses have tools, equipment, and workers.

1) House one has a blueprint therefore all preperations have been made to build. This is logical to do. By these preperations the correct amount of planning, tools, equipment, and workers are brought. Because of this the house is bulit on time and correctly.

2) House two had no blueprint or any extensive planning. This is illogical to do. Because of this the house is held back due to lack of planning, tools, equipment, and workers to finish on time. The problems for no blueprint causes the house to be built with slight errors and problems.

1) House one is Creation by God. God planned our creation and therefore it was made correctly because of precise planning. As our creation has precise order because of this. God had all tools, equipment, and workers to spread this knowledge and leave his signiture by his work.

2) House two was built sloppy. No planning, no preperations. For a house to be built just naturally with no plan is horendous. You would no longer be a house builder if this happened. As a result the house would not be built properly for all things to work. And hince that the universe if built natural without design would not form our order and proper function.

Any thoughts?

There is both order and disorder in this universe. From black holes to structural defects in humans that are inherent.

A plan would not have disorder, especially from an all-omnipotent, omniscient being. Disorder could not exist.

If you saw a poorly designed, shamble of a house, that was leaking constantly and had holes and loose fittings, what would you determine about the builder? Would you ever conclude that the builder must be a supremely intelligent house-building savant? A viruoso, whos house building talents should be praised?
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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6/4/2012 6:11:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 5:29:16 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 6/4/2012 12:19:00 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
From this hypothetical we will explain Creationism vs. Big-Bang/science.
*Note:This is a actual hypothetical and for anyone to respond(No flame.)

In this hypothetical we will build two houses:
1) First house has a plan for it: a Blueprint
2) Second house does not: Natural/Freesytle

Both houses have tools, equipment, and workers.

1) House one has a blueprint therefore all preperations have been made to build. This is logical to do. By these preperations the correct amount of planning, tools, equipment, and workers are brought. Because of this the house is bulit on time and correctly.

2) House two had no blueprint or any extensive planning. This is illogical to do. Because of this the house is held back due to lack of planning, tools, equipment, and workers to finish on time. The problems for no blueprint causes the house to be built with slight errors and problems.

1) House one is Creation by God. God planned our creation and therefore it was made correctly because of precise planning. As our creation has precise order because of this. God had all tools, equipment, and workers to spread this knowledge and leave his signiture by his work.

2) House two was built sloppy. No planning, no preperations. For a house to be built just naturally with no plan is horendous. You would no longer be a house builder if this happened. As a result the house would not be built properly for all things to work. And hince that the universe if built natural without design would not form our order and proper function.

Any thoughts?

There is both order and disorder in this universe. From black holes to structural defects in humans that are inherent.

A plan would not have disorder, especially from an all-omnipotent, omniscient being. Disorder could not exist.

If you saw a poorly designed, shamble of a house, that was leaking constantly and had holes and loose fittings, what would you determine about the builder? Would you ever conclude that the builder must be a supremely intelligent house-building savant? A viruoso, whos house building talents should be praised?

How do you know that it is disorder or a reason for it to appear as it is? You do not!
TheAsylum
ScottyDouglas
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6/4/2012 6:12:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
A plan would not have disorder, especially from an all-omnipotent, omniscient being. Disorder could not exist.



How do you know that it is disorder or a reason for it to appear as it is? You do not!
TheAsylum
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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6/4/2012 7:00:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 6:12:15 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
A plan would not have disorder, especially from an all-omnipotent, omniscient being. Disorder could not exist.




How do you know that it is disorder or a reason for it to appear as it is? You do not!

"The problems for no blueprint causes the house to be built with slight errors and problems."

So, if you don't think that manipulating factors in a chaotic non-linear function counts as having "no blueprint to follow" and "having slight errors and problem," then what on earth are you talking about?

It's like saying you have a "blueprint" for a cake because you know the ingredients and their correct proportions.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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6/4/2012 7:18:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 6:11:24 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 6/4/2012 5:29:16 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 6/4/2012 12:19:00 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
From this hypothetical we will explain Creationism vs. Big-Bang/science.
*Note:This is a actual hypothetical and for anyone to respond(No flame.)

In this hypothetical we will build two houses:
1) First house has a plan for it: a Blueprint
2) Second house does not: Natural/Freesytle

Both houses have tools, equipment, and workers.

1) House one has a blueprint therefore all preperations have been made to build. This is logical to do. By these preperations the correct amount of planning, tools, equipment, and workers are brought. Because of this the house is bulit on time and correctly.

2) House two had no blueprint or any extensive planning. This is illogical to do. Because of this the house is held back due to lack of planning, tools, equipment, and workers to finish on time. The problems for no blueprint causes the house to be built with slight errors and problems.

1) House one is Creation by God. God planned our creation and therefore it was made correctly because of precise planning. As our creation has precise order because of this. God had all tools, equipment, and workers to spread this knowledge and leave his signiture by his work.

2) House two was built sloppy. No planning, no preperations. For a house to be built just naturally with no plan is horendous. You would no longer be a house builder if this happened. As a result the house would not be built properly for all things to work. And hince that the universe if built natural without design would not form our order and proper function.

Any thoughts?

There is both order and disorder in this universe. From black holes to structural defects in humans that are inherent.

A plan would not have disorder, especially from an all-omnipotent, omniscient being. Disorder could not exist.

If you saw a poorly designed, shamble of a house, that was leaking constantly and had holes and loose fittings, what would you determine about the builder? Would you ever conclude that the builder must be a supremely intelligent house-building savant? A viruoso, whos house building talents should be praised?

How do you know that it is disorder or a reason for it to appear as it is? You do not!

give me an example of disorder.
ScottyDouglas
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6/5/2012 3:42:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
give me an example of disorder.

Big Bang theory. Whatever was out there that was not became and formed us. Disorder into order.
Riots.
Niagra falls.
TheAsylum
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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6/5/2012 2:06:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 3:42:43 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
give me an example of disorder.

Big Bang theory. Whatever was out there that was not became and formed us. Disorder into order.
Riots.
Niagra falls.

You believe in the big bang theory?

Furthermore, how do you know that niagara falls, riots, arent part of a greater plan, making them order and not disorder?
ScottyDouglas
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6/6/2012 7:04:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 2:06:12 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 6/5/2012 3:42:43 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
give me an example of disorder.

Big Bang theory. Whatever was out there that was not became and formed us. Disorder into order.
Riots.
Niagra falls.

You believe in the big bang theory?

Furthermore, how do you know that niagara falls, riots, arent part of a greater plan, making them order and not disorder?

No I do not believe it. You do though! 1. One riots are never order. 2. Niagra falls does have greater plan.
TheAsylum
Wnope
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6/6/2012 6:41:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/6/2012 7:04:25 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 6/5/2012 2:06:12 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 6/5/2012 3:42:43 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
give me an example of disorder.

Big Bang theory. Whatever was out there that was not became and formed us. Disorder into order.
Riots.
Niagra falls.

You believe in the big bang theory?

Furthermore, how do you know that niagara falls, riots, arent part of a greater plan, making them order and not disorder?

No I do not believe it. You do though! 1. One riots are never order. 2. Niagra falls does have greater plan.

So your example of disorder is niagra falls, but you simultaneously claim Niagra falls has a greater plan.

Wouldn't that, under your definition, not be "disorder?"
seraine
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6/6/2012 8:17:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 6:12:15 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
A plan would not have disorder, especially from an all-omnipotent, omniscient being. Disorder could not exist.
How do you know that it is disorder or a reason for it to appear as it is? You do not!

According to the Bible, it is unexplainable? God must want to trick us, that's it!

I must admit, that is a foolproof plan.
ScottyDouglas
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6/6/2012 8:44:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/6/2012 8:17:22 PM, seraine wrote:
At 6/4/2012 6:12:15 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
A plan would not have disorder, especially from an all-omnipotent, omniscient being. Disorder could not exist.
How do you know that it is disorder or a reason for it to appear as it is? You do not!

According to the Bible, it is unexplainable? God must want to trick us, that's it!

I must admit, that is a foolproof plan.

It is less trickery and more of our lack of understanding skills. God could dictate our life, He doesnt. He could not have nothing ever to do with us, He doesnt. He gave a Word to live and learn from and believe in. Man having sin that was unforgivable and must be cleansed was given a law for washing that sin away. God then cam and shed his blood and completed and fulfilled that blood law for cleansing sin. And as so Jesus died for our sins. I think He has been very involved. The OT was establishing Law and Miracles of God and prophecy of the Messiah that would be the lamb sacrificed, The NT fulfilled the prophecies and Law and gave all men salvation.
TheAsylum
Man-is-good
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6/6/2012 8:49:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 12:19:00 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
From this hypothetical we will explain Creationism vs. Big-Bang/science.
*Note:This is a actual hypothetical and for anyone to respond(No flame.)

In this hypothetical we will build two houses:
1) First house has a plan for it: a Blueprint
2) Second house does not: Natural/Freesytle

Both houses have tools, equipment, and workers.

1) House one has a blueprint therefore all preperations have been made to build. This is logical to do. By these preperations the correct amount of planning, tools, equipment, and workers are brought. Because of this the house is bulit on time and correctly.

2) House two had no blueprint or any extensive planning. This is illogical to do. Because of this the house is held back due to lack of planning, tools, equipment, and workers to finish on time. The problems for no blueprint causes the house to be built with slight errors and problems.

1) House one is Creation by God. God planned our creation and therefore it was made correctly because of precise planning. As our creation has precise order because of this. God had all tools, equipment, and workers to spread this knowledge and leave his signiture by his work.

2) House two was built sloppy. No planning, no preperations. For a house to be built just naturally with no plan is horendous. You would no longer be a house builder if this happened. As a result the house would not be built properly for all things to work. And hince that the universe if built natural without design would not form our order and proper function.

Any thoughts?

Well, comparing a man-made structure to a natural process is....
It's safe to say that this comparison is sloppily based on a dichotomy of design and without, implying that the absence of design could not be responsible for the formation of such organized life, eh???
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
DetectableNinja
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6/6/2012 8:59:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Order only exists in the universe because our sense of order is based on the world around us. We like to order things. Therefore, there is order in the universe, because our very notions of what IS order are conformed around our observations.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Man-is-good
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6/6/2012 10:42:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/6/2012 8:59:17 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
Order only exists in the universe because our sense of order is based on the world around us. We like to order things. Therefore, there is order in the universe, because our very notions of what IS order are conformed around our observations.

Can you argue that the order the OP speaks of is only our conception of order or what appears to be so?

If it is our sense of order that leads to the establishment of it in the universe "becuase our very notions...observations", then can it be said that such qualities of the universe are non-existent but in human eyes????
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau